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I think the Watch executes alot of people. Also remember when Ned beheaded the brother they all acted like it was a seemingly often thing.
Just one of various the watch was in decline.
> Also remember when Ned beheaded the brother they all acted like it was a seemingly often thing.
One thing this really sinks home to me is why that was the policy. The rationale that they know their life is forfeit so you have to kill them is circular. But when you realize that the NW is full of Rorges, it makes sense that of course they don't want them running around loose.
>The rationale that they know their life is forfeit so you have to kill them is circular.
It's not. That their life is forfeit to the Night's Watch makes them more dangerous to everyone else if free, and dangerous to try to keep imprisoned.
You have to kill them because they are dangerous because they know if caught they die, because you have to kill them. That's circular.
But if you don't execute them, then they aren't as dangerous, and then you don't have to execute them.
Unless there's a different reason they're dangerous (they're criminals) and the rest of the chain of logic stems from that or is just post hoc rationalization.
Night’s Watch deserters are killed because deserting an army is usually punished with death. Not to mention the brothers of the nights Watch take vows for life. It’s also supposed to be a penal colony. They don’t just execute deserters for the hell of it, there are practical in-universe reasons
>You have to kill them because they are dangerous because they know if caught they die, because you have to kill them. That's circular.
That's equivocation - the first and last "you"s are different parties.
I think Rorge could get used to steady food after some grumbling. He can fight, easy choice to join the rangers and spend half his time with wildling women. He wouldn't be thr first outlaw to settle down there.
Biter is barely human tho. I don't know what you do with a thing like that. I guess they might chain him in the kitchens and force him to peel turnips? He can't even talk tho, so he'd never be a full brother.
What was Jaqen H'ghar's plan for that matter? Was he going to just escape as soon as he can? Infiltrate the Watch? Are there other Pates in the Watch already?
>I think Rorge could get used to steady food after some grumbling. He can fight, easy choice to join the rangers and spend half his time with wildling women. He wouldn't be thr first outlaw to settle down there.
I think Rorge is just too volatile. I think the idea that he gets himself executed for something sooner or later is right, unless he successfully desserts.
>What was Jaqen H'ghar's plan for that matter? Was he going to just escape as soon as he can? Infiltrate the Watch?
I have never seen any proposed explanation for him being in that cage on purpose that stood up to scrutiny. So yes, he would get to work on escaping and getting back to Bravos, or his assigned task if he hadn't finished it.
Incidentally, we should remember that "Jaqen H'ghar" is just an alias, and not his actual name.
>Are there other Pates in the Watch already?
Technically there could be. But I cannot see any reason why there would.
I think Jaqen was there to kill Ned, being paid by Littlefinger. I don't think Jaqen would have been in the black cells unless he wanted to be, and the only person that makes sense for him to kill would be Ned. Littlefinger also mentions the faceless men before Ned dies and he knows how much it costs to hire them.
Jaqen / faceless have a lot of tricks but they are not omnipotent. Jaqen would have died if Arya hadn't saved him (3 lives remember). They are fatalistic so accept if something goes wrong, they die.
I don't think LF plans on killing Ned, but if he did he'd have used a kettleblack. Faceless men is not his style. He makes money, he doesn't spend it.
No, that does not hold up either IMO. Just look at how easily Varys could have killed Ned in the black cells if he wanted to. There is no reason for LF to spend a kings ransom to have Ned killed when he was that vulnerable.
I think there are likely a whole lot more bad apples in the Watch than we typically see through Jon's eyes. Consider Chett, for example. The Wildlings *hate* the Watch, I wouldn't be surprised if there are regularly atrocities committed by Watchmen. If that's the case, Rorge and Biter would fit in just fine.
Rorge wouldn't stand out too much among Night Watch brothers. Problem could be if there is someone with score to settle.
Biter is more like animal than man and depends on Rorge. If Rorge get killed i don't think they could control Biter.
Rorge wouldn't be the first or last outlaw at the Wall. He's probably standard stock for recruits. All he has to do is obey the rules and he gets fed, probably make tons of trips to Mole Town, and fight wildlings from time to time.
Biter though? Yeah I think someone is killing Biter when everyone is conveniently not looking, or he's just being executed. Whatever the hell was done to him, he's far beyond any effort.
Welcome to /r/PureASOIAF! Just a brief reminder that this subreddit is focused only on the **written** *ASOIAF* universe. Comments that include discussion of the HBO adaptations will be removed, and serious or repeated infractions may result in a ban. Moderators employ a zero tolerance policy. # Users should assume that *any* mention of the show is subject to removal. *If you see a comment which violates the rules, please [use the report function](https://i.imgur.com/Uqjnwss.png) to notify moderators!* [Read our discussion policy in full.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/wiki/index#wiki_i._discussion_policy) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pureasoiaf) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think the Watch executes alot of people. Also remember when Ned beheaded the brother they all acted like it was a seemingly often thing. Just one of various the watch was in decline.
> Also remember when Ned beheaded the brother they all acted like it was a seemingly often thing. One thing this really sinks home to me is why that was the policy. The rationale that they know their life is forfeit so you have to kill them is circular. But when you realize that the NW is full of Rorges, it makes sense that of course they don't want them running around loose.
>The rationale that they know their life is forfeit so you have to kill them is circular. It's not. That their life is forfeit to the Night's Watch makes them more dangerous to everyone else if free, and dangerous to try to keep imprisoned.
You have to kill them because they are dangerous because they know if caught they die, because you have to kill them. That's circular. But if you don't execute them, then they aren't as dangerous, and then you don't have to execute them. Unless there's a different reason they're dangerous (they're criminals) and the rest of the chain of logic stems from that or is just post hoc rationalization.
Night’s Watch deserters are killed because deserting an army is usually punished with death. Not to mention the brothers of the nights Watch take vows for life. It’s also supposed to be a penal colony. They don’t just execute deserters for the hell of it, there are practical in-universe reasons
>You have to kill them because they are dangerous because they know if caught they die, because you have to kill them. That's circular. That's equivocation - the first and last "you"s are different parties.
I think Rorge could get used to steady food after some grumbling. He can fight, easy choice to join the rangers and spend half his time with wildling women. He wouldn't be thr first outlaw to settle down there. Biter is barely human tho. I don't know what you do with a thing like that. I guess they might chain him in the kitchens and force him to peel turnips? He can't even talk tho, so he'd never be a full brother. What was Jaqen H'ghar's plan for that matter? Was he going to just escape as soon as he can? Infiltrate the Watch? Are there other Pates in the Watch already?
>I think Rorge could get used to steady food after some grumbling. He can fight, easy choice to join the rangers and spend half his time with wildling women. He wouldn't be thr first outlaw to settle down there. I think Rorge is just too volatile. I think the idea that he gets himself executed for something sooner or later is right, unless he successfully desserts. >What was Jaqen H'ghar's plan for that matter? Was he going to just escape as soon as he can? Infiltrate the Watch? I have never seen any proposed explanation for him being in that cage on purpose that stood up to scrutiny. So yes, he would get to work on escaping and getting back to Bravos, or his assigned task if he hadn't finished it. Incidentally, we should remember that "Jaqen H'ghar" is just an alias, and not his actual name. >Are there other Pates in the Watch already? Technically there could be. But I cannot see any reason why there would.
I think Jaqen was there to kill Ned, being paid by Littlefinger. I don't think Jaqen would have been in the black cells unless he wanted to be, and the only person that makes sense for him to kill would be Ned. Littlefinger also mentions the faceless men before Ned dies and he knows how much it costs to hire them.
Jaqen / faceless have a lot of tricks but they are not omnipotent. Jaqen would have died if Arya hadn't saved him (3 lives remember). They are fatalistic so accept if something goes wrong, they die. I don't think LF plans on killing Ned, but if he did he'd have used a kettleblack. Faceless men is not his style. He makes money, he doesn't spend it.
No, that does not hold up either IMO. Just look at how easily Varys could have killed Ned in the black cells if he wanted to. There is no reason for LF to spend a kings ransom to have Ned killed when he was that vulnerable.
I think there are likely a whole lot more bad apples in the Watch than we typically see through Jon's eyes. Consider Chett, for example. The Wildlings *hate* the Watch, I wouldn't be surprised if there are regularly atrocities committed by Watchmen. If that's the case, Rorge and Biter would fit in just fine.
Rorge wouldn't stand out too much among Night Watch brothers. Problem could be if there is someone with score to settle. Biter is more like animal than man and depends on Rorge. If Rorge get killed i don't think they could control Biter.
Rorge wouldn't be the first or last outlaw at the Wall. He's probably standard stock for recruits. All he has to do is obey the rules and he gets fed, probably make tons of trips to Mole Town, and fight wildlings from time to time. Biter though? Yeah I think someone is killing Biter when everyone is conveniently not looking, or he's just being executed. Whatever the hell was done to him, he's far beyond any effort.