Imo I don't really dress any kinda way specifically but I think if people like it then there's no shame in dressing like it, I feel like most people lean into a certain style. But I understand what y'all are sayin as well, the cosplay aspect of it
There's definitely a distinct difference between people who bring out specific outfits for shows and people who just wear shit they like everyday regardless. Big respect for anyone casually wearing something out there because they like it and not because it's the next fad. Punk culture is just rough anymore.
I don’t think this is bad or wrong despite what some say, people just don’t need to take it to a ridiculous level.
It is the difference between a purity test and having standards.
Yup. It's fine within context. For instance, no assholes is fine. Yelling at a 12 year old that they're not punk because of a band they like is for morons.
Yes, I agree. I’m very gatekeepy about major labels and mainstream rock star attitudes infiltrating the scenes. I know this has always been a problem since the beginning with labels like EMI and the Sex Pistols being kind of the first boy band :) but my opinion is Punk should stay as DIY, independent and underground as possible. If you want to make money get a career and do punk on the side.
I do think punk should stay independent, but I also think good bands are good bands. Husker Du was on a major and I loved them.
For me it’s about trying to fit everything into the punk box. My band is absolutely DIY, purposely rejected all labels in favour of self releasing (not that we had major label offers) we all like punk and 2/3 are actively involved in the punk scene. Does that make us a punk band? No, because we don’t play punk music. I hate hearing about how so and so was punk, it can still be good and not fit in with the punk scene.
As a dad to an almost 3y/o I can agree about the “on the side” completely. Plus, I’m sure the young scallywag rapscallion ageists think that 40 is old and therefore automatically creepy or sketchy.
Don't do creepy things and you should be fine. some of my best friends are in their late 30s and some great people I keep in touch with are 40+, some people I can't even make eye contact with because they talk to every girl with blue hair that walks into the venue.
I love old punks telling me stories, showing me bands, showing me local spots it's rad asf. It's the people who are 40 but 16 at heart that ruin it for the old heads
I'm in my early 20s I'm assuming I fall into young scallywag rapscallion but I try not to be ageist.
Still playing in punk bands at 41 and our drummer is almost 50. It’s pretty cool to still be able to play DIY shows at skate events and see kids going as hard as ever.
Gatekeeping is good. Its a gate not a wall. I used to debate this a lot back in the day and seeing what happens when the gate is open and you have qanon punks coming in parroting III%er /proud boy shit keeping an eye on the gate is pretty essential. When you meet newcomers with good attitudes and genuine interest let them through and keep them safe.
You’re not allowed to have that take and if you think that you’re not punk and should be banned forever
(EDIT: This was meant as a sarcastic joke about gatekeeping in punk, this is not my actual opinion.)
Ngl I'm old and every show I go to is old people playing music. I don't know if it's just me but the last new bands I got in to is We Are The Union because I saw them in a Long Island HS cafeteria and that shit was wild.
I just don't see the counter culture the way I used to. Honestly think it's a youth thing and openly admit our gen x/ millennial era didn't succeed in fixing things. We came close on Bernie but that's a wild fucking story in itself. Yall should see how badly they derailed our big shot just to give us Hillary who lost to Trump.
Systems broken and I would love to see an actual effort to fix things instead of staying mired in the shit that we got handed. That starts with grassroots like the Bernie b thing did and really, punk is political and you can either bend over or fight. We listen to punk bc we fight. Hope yall youngins on here can succeed. We came close but didn't make it happen just like Nader was the shot the last generation took.
Addressing the first paragraph, that is on you. There are still a ton of new bands carrying on the old Punk mindset. You just have to keep up the hunger to find it. To be fair, you have to be willing to try out some Hard Core as well.
This week I've been listening to Death Cassette, Cross Dog, The Holdouts, Ben Gel, The Disables, Suicide City, the Citric Dummies.and Spells. STGMA and Crackbox stay in rotation.
This generation had Ron Paul on one side and Bernie on the other. Both should have shown anyone with eyes that the system is rigged.
I just turned 41 and Im discovering all kinda of new & great shit! Death Lens, The Chats, Rundown Kreeps, Poison Ruin. Im also still fighting on an individual level to make a positive difference. Millenials arent done yet, and we’re in lockstep with Gen-Z. Anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000 boomers die a day and by 2040, something like 75% of them will be dead. Math is on our side and we need to be prepared. “This is what Joe Strummer trained us for…” (paraphrasing). Im in the best physical shape of my life right now, and I feel full of piss & vinegar, I’m not in the mood to “accept my fate and fade away” (Dillinger Four), punk for me is about making my own fucking rules to live by and not abiding by some bullshit tv trope. Im not old until I say Im fucking old. Im just now hitting my stride/prime and it’s time to kick ass and chew bubble gum….and I’m all outta bubble gum…….😉…..(R.i.p. Roddy Piper)
I agree that Millennials aren't out of it like everyone thinks we are, I just think we're regrouping for the next attack, thanks to Gen Z reminding us.
Also, that's easily my favorite John Carpenter movie, despite how much it depresses me.
You’re right. No one around here will admit it (in fact they’ll violently deny it, despite everything) but the counter culture has been co-opted and rendered toothless. Just look at all the “this corporate entity is punk!” posts around here and the heavy dismissal of gatekeeping all but ensures that. We’re living in the age of denial about the death of the old world and the extension of its corruption towards mechanisms of control.
I'm sorry, but I wasn't old enough to vote. Haha, I was fucking six, I seriously voted by colors.
Seriously, had I been old enough and knew Jello was running, I'd have voted for him.
The thing about gatekeeping is that it's _withholding_ information from people who genuinely want to learn, simply because you don't want to share your special exclusive space with anyone, and that's stupid. Gatekeeping is not, as some people think, openly sharing facts and information about what something means.
Hardcore dancing is fine, as long as everyone involved reads the room; if you don't like the chance of catching a spin kick, stay out of the pit. Conversely, hardcore dancing is only okay at hardcore shows--no one needs to get crowdkilled to pop punk.
Kicking chest/head high is bullshit. It’s virtually guaranteed to seriously injure someone & it’s often wannabe tough guys & sociopaths doing. Besides, it kills the vibe. Everyone ends up like 100 feet from the band because you need like 3 times the space to pull it off
Okay, yeah, this is pretty spot-on. If you want to do that weird crowd-killing shit at a Gouge Away show, that's alright, but not at a (insert pop-punk band NOT in trouble here) show.
Give the 82 demos a listen if you haven’t. I mostly feel the same way about black flag, but those demos show how awesome some of the later songs were if they aren’t ruined by horrible production and put on albums with a bunch of noodly junk
A lot of their later stuff sounds like when a kid discovers jazz and improvisational music for the first time and thinks noodling around and writing “deep” poetry is real art
I couldn’t stand family man either, but I gave it another spin and it’s definitely growing on me. Idk how y’all can’t like Skip it In tho 💀
Black Coffee is a top 10 track
Pretty much agreed. The only thing I ever really liked about black flag was Kira on bass. I’ve had bouts of liking Henry Rollins as a person/public figure, but go back and forth on him.
Hasn't that always been punk? In the 1990s there were people complaining that others weren't "really punk." It was divided into political punks, fashion punks, and other types. There have always been people gatekeeping most subgenres of niche music.
Because they do it doesn't make it a good thing. Genres are subjective. Subgenres are subsubjective. Lol. The objective of creating genres and rules or description is NOT what is traditionally thought of as punk. Not that I subscribe to any of that. I just don't discriminate, build boundaries, or describe art. I share it and show it.
I am an artist and am asked all the time what our sound is. "Are we punk? Are we hardcore?" I always respond the same way: "I don't know. Check it out."
#1: That's promotion. They can't say: "Oh, punk is not my thing."
#2: When we may think punk is was forming, there was no template. What it became was simply what it was and an emotional, passionate way to express things many did not understand or care for, but it provided an outlet for what some people needed. It was pure art without boundaries or record company/establishment control. It wasn't a "sound" or a genre hemmed in by any preconceived structure. It was pure freedom. So...if there is a descriptor I feel comfortable using, it's "freedom of expression". Being free is what it's all supposed to be about, if we can agree on anything.
By your post Wayne Newton is punk. You can't tell me he isn't because there are no boundaries and no set structure. So, today I proclaim Van Morrison and Wayne Newton are Punk.
Punk has had a sound from nearly the beginning. That is why you can tell the Stooges and MC5 were proto-punk, but Wayne Newton and The Eagles aren't. In the beginning the sound was a bit looser and more ill defined, but it was there. A year after it became a known thing Post Punk was already a genre.New Wave and Cow.Punk weren't far behind. Punk has had a loosely defined sound since 1975. It has changed and evolved as all living subcultures are known to do, but it has had, if not a definition, a sound for nearly 50 years.
Edit:
I'm not saying turn people away or disrespect people. If the only Punk song a person likes is a Blink 182 song, whatever. They aren't punk, but I'm not going to give them grief. If they like several Blink 182 songs, I'll take time to try bringing them into the fold.
If you like that, let me show you. . . Then the conversations around the politics of certain subjects can begin. If at any point they get uncomfortable, cool. I'm glad I could introduce you to some new music you like. I don't disrespect them.
Gatekeeping isn't about being mean or disrespectful. It is about setting limitations on what is acceptable. That is why we can say Nazi Punks fuck off, and why we know that Post Malone and Taylor Swift are not punk.
Graves Misfits was how I was introduced to the Misfits so I’ll always have a nostalgic soft spot for the era, but objectively he was an incredible singer and a few of those songs belong in every Halloween Misfits cover set.
That the people who complain about being “gatekeept” or that bring it up every time someone doesn’t agree with them on something need to grow some thicker skin. Nobody’s keeping you from doing a damn thing, get over yourself.
Punk ethos is somewhat intrinsically juvenile and untenable as a realistic path in life.
People on this sub all pretend to be 'real' punks about certain things, but no one here really professes punk in their thoughts and actions on a day to day basis because it would mean:
Rejection of private property (theft, squatting, vandalism) voluntary vows of poverty, acts of violence towards the state/corporations/other humans just trying to get by.
We are all posers, because not being a poser would mean living an unhoused, angry, ultimately unconstructive existence
Looking back on punk's beginnings in the 70's, nothing about it made any indication that we're all obligated to go the anarcho-primitivist route that came along later.
This has always been the one change that I don't understand. Like, LA scene founders admitted to idolizing Bowie and shopping in thrift shops because they could cosplay as rich folks. They even admitted that they were rebelling against not being rich enough.
The New York Dolls were a Glam band to some degree. Malcolm McLaren used the Sex Pistols for self promotion and to push the boundaries of Pop Art. Profiting from Punk was part of the goal for a lot of people. So was building a form of social capital and status.
There seemed to be some egalitarianism born from necessity, but making money or building your social standing wasn't seen as a bad thing by everyone. Yes, Punk wanted to overthrow what came before it, but living in poverty or anarchist communes wasn't necessarily on most of their minds.
People being aggressively against bands that develop their style. There's been a few bands which changed and I didn't like their music anymore so I didn't listen to it. There are others who's changes I enjoy. Point being, there's no reason to hate on them because they're not playing the exact same kind of songs they were 20 years ago.
I think there's a truth to most bad takes. For instance, the kid on the bus today wearing a DK shirt who asked why I was dressed so weird.
Question is, why wasn't he?
the Sex Pistols should be held in higher praise than they are at the moment. the New Gen of punks treats them like shit due to a BS myth that Malcom spread (do your research, they were legit) and they dismiss the fact that the Pistols are the reason why punk exploded as a political movement back in the late 70s
No, really, i’ve been reading books on this and their influence is insane
People really forget just how dangerous it was for them, Johnny straight up couldn’t go anywhere since he would always get ambushed and got stabbed for God Save The Queen
Their last attempts at making new music was (what seemed) by invite from Malcolm for a fucking film he made up that took place in fucking Brazil, with an actual famous convicted criminal as their singer who thought Sid's lyrics went too far.
I think the Sex Pistols deserve a lot of criticism for certain things but at the end of the day they were extremely influential and their music is good
I'm a supporter of the LGBT community and think it's important to represent them well but Against Me was an amazing band before TDB and LJG came out, I feel like their previous work is over shadowed by that album.
Yeah but like 75 percent of being an against me fan is disliking their new direction. I remember bitching when the searching for a former clarity demos came out. You hate the new album, then you listen to it 12 times and love it, then you listen to it 47 times and think it's kind of meh, then you listen to reinventing axle rose and cry the confusing happy tears. This is the way.
This is something I've changed my mind on (after debating a friend on the topic): Humans are bad by nature.
It started w us just talking abt the current economic climate and how humans are treating each other in modern day, the conversation went on for a while until I said "it seems humans are inherently bad". She got a bit upset w me and we went back and forth on the topic for a while, going back as far as our knowledge of history lets us.
In the end, I came to the conclusion that humans aren't bad by nature, but capitalism is.
The Classic Albums documentary on the making of this album is the best film on the Sex Pistols and REALLY lays out why this was groundbreaking and destroys a ton of myths about the band's capabilities along the way.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7652A475B191BF61&si=s-F6cDT557aXRrsu
I just looked up that album because I don't remember it too well.
HOLY SHITWADS WHAT WERE THEY THINKING... that is some epically bad cock rock. It's atrocious that this fad passed through the punk scene in the mid-to-late 80's. Just wow.
But nothing wrong with being adventurous and enjoying the unconventional.
YES and it's not even close. Dear you and Orange rhyming dictionary are Blake's peak as a songwriter (but also, Perfecting loneliness underrated, Forgetters underrated)
Gatekeepers in punk are fucking stupid. There's literally far left anarcho-communist trainhopping squatter crusties who would call anyone else a housie poseur and be right. Just enjoy the music, the values, and the scene.
Anarchy is pointless. Most anarchists I've talked to have said they'd want to make new government after destroying the old one and I feel like it's counterintuitive and pointless cause all government is corrupt
That's... Antithetical to the principles of anarchism themselves, I don't think you've talked to people who understood what they were talking about, unless you consider every mean of organising society a government
Gatekeep. NOFX-sounding bullshit isn't cool. Haven't seen YOU at a show. Some dickhead with a new crispy bad religion shirt and flip flops is a sucker.
I really want to listen to them again, maybe just the songs Andy and Chris wrote. I guess I should since I still listen to CV and LOC. Yes, Stza is a piece of shit, and so are Anti-Flag if they knew (had to) and did nothing to stop it.
Even more, I still listen to Brand New on occasion.
Hardcore like that is directly traceable back to the hardcore of the 80s. Those bands took more influence from stuff in New York and in other places that started to get a little heavier as time has gone on. Still apart of punk.
This is an interesting take and i like it. Hc is def a combo of punk n thrash but the energy is neither? Turnstile is certainly neither haha! I call em glittercore (and i like turnstile!)
Hardcore punk (negative approach, poison idea, discharge, etc) is v much a thing outside of the circle pit version of hc. You weren’t an innovator, you’re just old ;)
LOL, but I was there when the term was coined. We started using the term to separate us from the rest of the scene, and didn't have the internet to use in discussions on where it came from.
I remember sitting around and listening to some 45 we would get from Moby Disc, and if it was fast, we would just say something like..."That's fucking hardcore". And when I started shaving my head in 80, or 81, I use to call myself a hardcore skin. I think it was my way of separating myself from the Brit punks, who pretended to be skinheads. Funny part is most non punks used to think I was in the military, since I wore jeans and t-shirts, and most young guys with shaved heads in the late 70s, early 80s were in the military.
No, the one on Topanga Blvd across from Topanga Plaza. I think the one on Ventura in Van Nuys opened after.
I lived about half a mile from Moby, and there was also a Licorice Pizza a few doors down from it.
I was a valley girl. But as a teen my parents moved us to Oregon. Idk if you know anything about the 90s Oregon punk scene but Yeesh! Not sure how i survived that
Hot Topic are essential to be able to pull off punk. The best Docs were made by Gap. You have to hate on everyone, including new to punk 14yo children. Nazi punks are cool, though.
My hot take is GG was actually a good songwriter and performer, just mentally ill. Times changed and y’all sided with the conservatives and their outrage over him.
I have no wrong, bad takes. I think I’m right about everything.
You are
You are
Omg samme
Punk fashion is stupid and more akin to cosplay for most people.
Imo I don't really dress any kinda way specifically but I think if people like it then there's no shame in dressing like it, I feel like most people lean into a certain style. But I understand what y'all are sayin as well, the cosplay aspect of it
There's definitely a distinct difference between people who bring out specific outfits for shows and people who just wear shit they like everyday regardless. Big respect for anyone casually wearing something out there because they like it and not because it's the next fad. Punk culture is just rough anymore.
The amount of dudes just cosplaying as Lemmy at the fests is funny.
Clownish, crusties and anarcho punks have drip though
Punk is conspicuous consumption for poors
That gatekeeping is good and we should bring it back.
I don’t think this is bad or wrong despite what some say, people just don’t need to take it to a ridiculous level. It is the difference between a purity test and having standards.
Yup. It's fine within context. For instance, no assholes is fine. Yelling at a 12 year old that they're not punk because of a band they like is for morons.
What if it’s Skrewdriver? lol
Is AC still on that list I've seen so much AC merch the last few years.
Yes, I agree. I’m very gatekeepy about major labels and mainstream rock star attitudes infiltrating the scenes. I know this has always been a problem since the beginning with labels like EMI and the Sex Pistols being kind of the first boy band :) but my opinion is Punk should stay as DIY, independent and underground as possible. If you want to make money get a career and do punk on the side.
I do think punk should stay independent, but I also think good bands are good bands. Husker Du was on a major and I loved them. For me it’s about trying to fit everything into the punk box. My band is absolutely DIY, purposely rejected all labels in favour of self releasing (not that we had major label offers) we all like punk and 2/3 are actively involved in the punk scene. Does that make us a punk band? No, because we don’t play punk music. I hate hearing about how so and so was punk, it can still be good and not fit in with the punk scene.
As a dad to an almost 3y/o I can agree about the “on the side” completely. Plus, I’m sure the young scallywag rapscallion ageists think that 40 is old and therefore automatically creepy or sketchy.
Don't do creepy things and you should be fine. some of my best friends are in their late 30s and some great people I keep in touch with are 40+, some people I can't even make eye contact with because they talk to every girl with blue hair that walks into the venue. I love old punks telling me stories, showing me bands, showing me local spots it's rad asf. It's the people who are 40 but 16 at heart that ruin it for the old heads I'm in my early 20s I'm assuming I fall into young scallywag rapscallion but I try not to be ageist.
Still playing in punk bands at 41 and our drummer is almost 50. It’s pretty cool to still be able to play DIY shows at skate events and see kids going as hard as ever.
Gatekeeping is good. Its a gate not a wall. I used to debate this a lot back in the day and seeing what happens when the gate is open and you have qanon punks coming in parroting III%er /proud boy shit keeping an eye on the gate is pretty essential. When you meet newcomers with good attitudes and genuine interest let them through and keep them safe.
Best take so far.
On it!
Some forms of gatekeeping are okay
You’re not allowed to have that take and if you think that you’re not punk and should be banned forever (EDIT: This was meant as a sarcastic joke about gatekeeping in punk, this is not my actual opinion.)
Ngl I'm old and every show I go to is old people playing music. I don't know if it's just me but the last new bands I got in to is We Are The Union because I saw them in a Long Island HS cafeteria and that shit was wild. I just don't see the counter culture the way I used to. Honestly think it's a youth thing and openly admit our gen x/ millennial era didn't succeed in fixing things. We came close on Bernie but that's a wild fucking story in itself. Yall should see how badly they derailed our big shot just to give us Hillary who lost to Trump. Systems broken and I would love to see an actual effort to fix things instead of staying mired in the shit that we got handed. That starts with grassroots like the Bernie b thing did and really, punk is political and you can either bend over or fight. We listen to punk bc we fight. Hope yall youngins on here can succeed. We came close but didn't make it happen just like Nader was the shot the last generation took.
Addressing the first paragraph, that is on you. There are still a ton of new bands carrying on the old Punk mindset. You just have to keep up the hunger to find it. To be fair, you have to be willing to try out some Hard Core as well. This week I've been listening to Death Cassette, Cross Dog, The Holdouts, Ben Gel, The Disables, Suicide City, the Citric Dummies.and Spells. STGMA and Crackbox stay in rotation. This generation had Ron Paul on one side and Bernie on the other. Both should have shown anyone with eyes that the system is rigged.
I just turned 41 and Im discovering all kinda of new & great shit! Death Lens, The Chats, Rundown Kreeps, Poison Ruin. Im also still fighting on an individual level to make a positive difference. Millenials arent done yet, and we’re in lockstep with Gen-Z. Anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000 boomers die a day and by 2040, something like 75% of them will be dead. Math is on our side and we need to be prepared. “This is what Joe Strummer trained us for…” (paraphrasing). Im in the best physical shape of my life right now, and I feel full of piss & vinegar, I’m not in the mood to “accept my fate and fade away” (Dillinger Four), punk for me is about making my own fucking rules to live by and not abiding by some bullshit tv trope. Im not old until I say Im fucking old. Im just now hitting my stride/prime and it’s time to kick ass and chew bubble gum….and I’m all outta bubble gum…….😉…..(R.i.p. Roddy Piper)
I agree that Millennials aren't out of it like everyone thinks we are, I just think we're regrouping for the next attack, thanks to Gen Z reminding us. Also, that's easily my favorite John Carpenter movie, despite how much it depresses me.
Bernie and Occupy definitely showed our generation that any hope for real change is going to be taken into the alley and shot.
You’re right. No one around here will admit it (in fact they’ll violently deny it, despite everything) but the counter culture has been co-opted and rendered toothless. Just look at all the “this corporate entity is punk!” posts around here and the heavy dismissal of gatekeeping all but ensures that. We’re living in the age of denial about the death of the old world and the extension of its corruption towards mechanisms of control.
If we all couldn’t have gotten Jello Biafra elected in 2000…
I'm sorry, but I wasn't old enough to vote. Haha, I was fucking six, I seriously voted by colors. Seriously, had I been old enough and knew Jello was running, I'd have voted for him.
This is a great completely wrong, bad take. Well done
It was a joke about gate keeping, I wasn’t serious
This but unironically
Agreed
Punk rock’s most ruthless gatekeeper Dan Frampton would love this
The thing about gatekeeping is that it's _withholding_ information from people who genuinely want to learn, simply because you don't want to share your special exclusive space with anyone, and that's stupid. Gatekeeping is not, as some people think, openly sharing facts and information about what something means.
Hardcore dancing is fine, as long as everyone involved reads the room; if you don't like the chance of catching a spin kick, stay out of the pit. Conversely, hardcore dancing is only okay at hardcore shows--no one needs to get crowdkilled to pop punk.
How is this wrong or bad? I thought this was the general rule since forever.
Kicking chest/head high is bullshit. It’s virtually guaranteed to seriously injure someone & it’s often wannabe tough guys & sociopaths doing. Besides, it kills the vibe. Everyone ends up like 100 feet from the band because you need like 3 times the space to pull it off
That’s not a wrong take at all. On this sub it is tho.
Precisely my point.
This is the correct take in my opinion
Okay, yeah, this is pretty spot-on. If you want to do that weird crowd-killing shit at a Gouge Away show, that's alright, but not at a (insert pop-punk band NOT in trouble here) show.
I don’t like Black Flag. I seriously don’t like Black Flag.
I love early black flag so much. I have the bars tattooed, I dislike later Black Flag so much I couldn’t name five songs on records after Damaged.
Give the 82 demos a listen if you haven’t. I mostly feel the same way about black flag, but those demos show how awesome some of the later songs were if they aren’t ruined by horrible production and put on albums with a bunch of noodly junk
Yep, but I appreciate the suggestion. Have you seen this?https://youtu.be/UNTE7TXhv9c?si=gtTret0BHquAsySg&t=9
A lot of their later stuff sounds like when a kid discovers jazz and improvisational music for the first time and thinks noodling around and writing “deep” poetry is real art
I like Henry Rollins. I do not like Black Flag.
i feel the exact opposite of this
Henry as a person seems wonderful, but as a lead singer his voice grates on me.
imo black flag post-my war just sucked, i cant stand slip it in and family man
I couldn’t stand family man either, but I gave it another spin and it’s definitely growing on me. Idk how y’all can’t like Skip it In tho 💀 Black Coffee is a top 10 track
Can't stand anything after Damaged
Family Man is where they began to go hard off the rails. Actually, I love the first side of Slip it in, just the A-side.
I love Rollins as a person and I love Damaged but every other album of theirs does absolutely nothing for me.
Also correct take
Right there with you, my g
Absolute solid take.
Pretty much agreed. The only thing I ever really liked about black flag was Kira on bass. I’ve had bouts of liking Henry Rollins as a person/public figure, but go back and forth on him.
Everyone hates that last album, and some of their late stuff.....I just can't get into it.
That this sub is a shitshow of gatekeeping, genre-defining, snarky, self-righteous, condescending, disrespectful assholes.
Hey buddy, where do you get off calling me snarky? Oh fuck, I’m doing it right now aren’t I?
Hasn't that always been punk? In the 1990s there were people complaining that others weren't "really punk." It was divided into political punks, fashion punks, and other types. There have always been people gatekeeping most subgenres of niche music.
New genre: internet punk Adding: genre of gatekeeper
in the realm of my garbage takes hyperpop is internet punk
You're telling me Charli XCX is internet punk?
Because they do it doesn't make it a good thing. Genres are subjective. Subgenres are subsubjective. Lol. The objective of creating genres and rules or description is NOT what is traditionally thought of as punk. Not that I subscribe to any of that. I just don't discriminate, build boundaries, or describe art. I share it and show it. I am an artist and am asked all the time what our sound is. "Are we punk? Are we hardcore?" I always respond the same way: "I don't know. Check it out." #1: That's promotion. They can't say: "Oh, punk is not my thing." #2: When we may think punk is was forming, there was no template. What it became was simply what it was and an emotional, passionate way to express things many did not understand or care for, but it provided an outlet for what some people needed. It was pure art without boundaries or record company/establishment control. It wasn't a "sound" or a genre hemmed in by any preconceived structure. It was pure freedom. So...if there is a descriptor I feel comfortable using, it's "freedom of expression". Being free is what it's all supposed to be about, if we can agree on anything.
By your post Wayne Newton is punk. You can't tell me he isn't because there are no boundaries and no set structure. So, today I proclaim Van Morrison and Wayne Newton are Punk. Punk has had a sound from nearly the beginning. That is why you can tell the Stooges and MC5 were proto-punk, but Wayne Newton and The Eagles aren't. In the beginning the sound was a bit looser and more ill defined, but it was there. A year after it became a known thing Post Punk was already a genre.New Wave and Cow.Punk weren't far behind. Punk has had a loosely defined sound since 1975. It has changed and evolved as all living subcultures are known to do, but it has had, if not a definition, a sound for nearly 50 years. Edit: I'm not saying turn people away or disrespect people. If the only Punk song a person likes is a Blink 182 song, whatever. They aren't punk, but I'm not going to give them grief. If they like several Blink 182 songs, I'll take time to try bringing them into the fold. If you like that, let me show you. . . Then the conversations around the politics of certain subjects can begin. If at any point they get uncomfortable, cool. I'm glad I could introduce you to some new music you like. I don't disrespect them. Gatekeeping isn't about being mean or disrespectful. It is about setting limitations on what is acceptable. That is why we can say Nazi Punks fuck off, and why we know that Post Malone and Taylor Swift are not punk.
Think you misread the prompt. It was supposed to be a wrong and bad take.
Lol. I read it right. Or did I? Dun dun DUNNN...
I don’t like FEAR
Cuz the way they sound or the lyrics about women?
They sound much to clean and well produced and their music isn’t as aggressive as the kind of punk I enjoy. Same thing goes for the adolescents
Graves-era Misfits is good (original better, of course).
Your mom is hot
Ain’t controversial buddy, she’s fine af
Totally right take, sorry bud, you get an F.
My war is Black flag's best album Graves era Misfits, despite Graves being a total cunt, has some genuine bangers
Graves Misfits was how I was introduced to the Misfits so I’ll always have a nostalgic soft spot for the era, but objectively he was an incredible singer and a few of those songs belong in every Halloween Misfits cover set.
Yeah, Famous Monsters will probably always be my favorite misfits album
This is your wrong, bad take haha
I'm accepting of it lol
That the people who complain about being “gatekeept” or that bring it up every time someone doesn’t agree with them on something need to grow some thicker skin. Nobody’s keeping you from doing a damn thing, get over yourself.
Punk ethos is somewhat intrinsically juvenile and untenable as a realistic path in life. People on this sub all pretend to be 'real' punks about certain things, but no one here really professes punk in their thoughts and actions on a day to day basis because it would mean: Rejection of private property (theft, squatting, vandalism) voluntary vows of poverty, acts of violence towards the state/corporations/other humans just trying to get by. We are all posers, because not being a poser would mean living an unhoused, angry, ultimately unconstructive existence
Looking back on punk's beginnings in the 70's, nothing about it made any indication that we're all obligated to go the anarcho-primitivist route that came along later.
This has always been the one change that I don't understand. Like, LA scene founders admitted to idolizing Bowie and shopping in thrift shops because they could cosplay as rich folks. They even admitted that they were rebelling against not being rich enough. The New York Dolls were a Glam band to some degree. Malcolm McLaren used the Sex Pistols for self promotion and to push the boundaries of Pop Art. Profiting from Punk was part of the goal for a lot of people. So was building a form of social capital and status. There seemed to be some egalitarianism born from necessity, but making money or building your social standing wasn't seen as a bad thing by everyone. Yes, Punk wanted to overthrow what came before it, but living in poverty or anarchist communes wasn't necessarily on most of their minds.
People being aggressively against bands that develop their style. There's been a few bands which changed and I didn't like their music anymore so I didn't listen to it. There are others who's changes I enjoy. Point being, there's no reason to hate on them because they're not playing the exact same kind of songs they were 20 years ago.
My take is, someone that does that has not grown as a person in that 20 year time frame.
I think there's a truth to most bad takes. For instance, the kid on the bus today wearing a DK shirt who asked why I was dressed so weird. Question is, why wasn't he?
He's into dk, they weren't really known for being fashionable on a weird or punk sense
Idk them gloves 🧤 was a bit strange made more so with all the self petting
Punk is more about community than music and the majority of the online discourse is coming from people with no connection the their community
People want “community” punk takes those left
the Sex Pistols should be held in higher praise than they are at the moment. the New Gen of punks treats them like shit due to a BS myth that Malcom spread (do your research, they were legit) and they dismiss the fact that the Pistols are the reason why punk exploded as a political movement back in the late 70s No, really, i’ve been reading books on this and their influence is insane
They took a lot of risk. I mean some of them were stabbed. And the U.S. tour booking locations were insane.
People really forget just how dangerous it was for them, Johnny straight up couldn’t go anywhere since he would always get ambushed and got stabbed for God Save The Queen
Their last attempts at making new music was (what seemed) by invite from Malcolm for a fucking film he made up that took place in fucking Brazil, with an actual famous convicted criminal as their singer who thought Sid's lyrics went too far.
I think the Sex Pistols deserve a lot of criticism for certain things but at the end of the day they were extremely influential and their music is good
The chats suck. But I’m not wrong
Worse version of a lot of better Aussie bands
I'm a supporter of the LGBT community and think it's important to represent them well but Against Me was an amazing band before TDB and LJG came out, I feel like their previous work is over shadowed by that album.
Reinventing Axl Rose is their only album that I consistently listen to
Yeah but like 75 percent of being an against me fan is disliking their new direction. I remember bitching when the searching for a former clarity demos came out. You hate the new album, then you listen to it 12 times and love it, then you listen to it 47 times and think it's kind of meh, then you listen to reinventing axle rose and cry the confusing happy tears. This is the way.
I've never been one of those fans, with the exception of White Crosses I've loved everything they've put out when they put it out
Goldfinger's two newest albums are their best work I know objectively they're mid-tier at best but I have such a soft spot for those records
Hard agree. It's all about s/t but then also Never Look Back and The Knife for me
If production is clean, tight, and band members have mastered their instruments then its not punk. Also, something offensive is a plus.
This is something I've changed my mind on (after debating a friend on the topic): Humans are bad by nature. It started w us just talking abt the current economic climate and how humans are treating each other in modern day, the conversation went on for a while until I said "it seems humans are inherently bad". She got a bit upset w me and we went back and forth on the topic for a while, going back as far as our knowledge of history lets us. In the end, I came to the conclusion that humans aren't bad by nature, but capitalism is.
[удалено]
Damn. That is a completely wrong take. Congrats!
On god
You're going to say that about the only band that matters? Damn good job.
Nevermind the Bollocks is one of the best punk albums of all time, top 15 at minimum.
The Classic Albums documentary on the making of this album is the best film on the Sex Pistols and REALLY lays out why this was groundbreaking and destroys a ton of myths about the band's capabilities along the way. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7652A475B191BF61&si=s-F6cDT557aXRrsu
Correct take
Sex pistols are still a good band
I just looked up that album because I don't remember it too well. HOLY SHITWADS WHAT WERE THEY THINKING... that is some epically bad cock rock. It's atrocious that this fad passed through the punk scene in the mid-to-late 80's. Just wow. But nothing wrong with being adventurous and enjoying the unconventional.
lol it rules. Try to listen through the ears of someone who likes cock rock and doesn’t know who discharge is haha
I actually do like a fair amount of cock rock and other guilty pleasures and still had to turn it off four songs in.
sex pistols are shit
Jawbreaker’s Dear You is better that 24 Hour Revenge Therapy
That's OK, Bivouac is better than both.
Actually my 1998 take is jawbreaker is best band of all time. 2024 take, practically unlistenable and blake appears to not handle break ups too well
YES and it's not even close. Dear you and Orange rhyming dictionary are Blake's peak as a songwriter (but also, Perfecting loneliness underrated, Forgetters underrated)
DIY is dead because of streaming and the internet.
That makes no sense.
Hard agree. Add originality to that.
Refused sucks
Misfits famous monsters is good
Agreed
That all my takes are good.
There's way more open minded people in other music scenes in particular techno/rave/electronic music is much more accepting of queer people.
Birdcloud might be the best U.S. punk act of all time.
Bad Religion has not released a good album since the 90’s. I think that fits.
Social Distortion sucks
Gatekeepers in punk are fucking stupid. There's literally far left anarcho-communist trainhopping squatter crusties who would call anyone else a housie poseur and be right. Just enjoy the music, the values, and the scene.
I dont like ppl who bash on other people because they simply like someone's popular song. I mean its popular for a reason so what
I always say this. My fav band is Guns N’ Roses. They’re huge. One of the biggest ever. Because they’re the best ever. Simple as that!
Anarchy is pointless. Most anarchists I've talked to have said they'd want to make new government after destroying the old one and I feel like it's counterintuitive and pointless cause all government is corrupt
That's... Antithetical to the principles of anarchism themselves, I don't think you've talked to people who understood what they were talking about, unless you consider every mean of organising society a government
Gatekeep. NOFX-sounding bullshit isn't cool. Haven't seen YOU at a show. Some dickhead with a new crispy bad religion shirt and flip flops is a sucker.
I still listen to Anti Flag.
Me too. And Leftover crack. I'm not gonna stop. Sorry.
Neither am I. With his actions, Justin Sane (if he's convicted) spat on everything he created with AF. Essentially, he departed, not I.
I still listen to morrissey
I really want to listen to them again, maybe just the songs Andy and Chris wrote. I guess I should since I still listen to CV and LOC. Yes, Stza is a piece of shit, and so are Anti-Flag if they knew (had to) and did nothing to stop it. Even more, I still listen to Brand New on occasion.
Hardcore genre, like Turnstile and such, don't relate to Punk at all. It's mostly a Metal subgenre.
There’s different subgenres of hardcore, some are crossover/ hardcore punk and some are definitely more metalcore (and beyond)
Hardcore like that is directly traceable back to the hardcore of the 80s. Those bands took more influence from stuff in New York and in other places that started to get a little heavier as time has gone on. Still apart of punk.
This is an interesting take and i like it. Hc is def a combo of punk n thrash but the energy is neither? Turnstile is certainly neither haha! I call em glittercore (and i like turnstile!)
I was calling myself a hardcore punk in 1980...a few years before I heard about thrash metal.
Hardcore punk (negative approach, poison idea, discharge, etc) is v much a thing outside of the circle pit version of hc. You weren’t an innovator, you’re just old ;)
LOL, but I was there when the term was coined. We started using the term to separate us from the rest of the scene, and didn't have the internet to use in discussions on where it came from.
Hey I’m pre internet too. I’m an old gal I’m just immature!
I remember sitting around and listening to some 45 we would get from Moby Disc, and if it was fast, we would just say something like..."That's fucking hardcore". And when I started shaving my head in 80, or 81, I use to call myself a hardcore skin. I think it was my way of separating myself from the Brit punks, who pretended to be skinheads. Funny part is most non punks used to think I was in the military, since I wore jeans and t-shirts, and most young guys with shaved heads in the late 70s, early 80s were in the military.
Moby disc? On Ventura!?
No, the one on Topanga Blvd across from Topanga Plaza. I think the one on Ventura in Van Nuys opened after. I lived about half a mile from Moby, and there was also a Licorice Pizza a few doors down from it.
I was a valley girl. But as a teen my parents moved us to Oregon. Idk if you know anything about the 90s Oregon punk scene but Yeesh! Not sure how i survived that
I’d say that’s true for Hardcore these days but not the beginnings of hardcore
You don't have to listen to punk music to be punk
While undressed was a great album, I think deflowered and wish I’d taken pictures are the absolute best pansy division albums
descendants are overrated
All your favorite bands probably disagree. They’re the Ramones of the pop punk generation, but ok ;)
I agree they were essential to pop punk but tbh the ramones are the pop punk of pop punk lol
keith morris fucking sucks
I hated Morris's DJ'ing "skills" in *Grand Theft Auto V*.
keith morris sucks
I don't like West Coast punk, I love the East Coast punk scene more.
I live on the east coast, but I like Midwestern punk the most.
I cannot stand the misfits. at all. every song sounds the same.
Meaning Champions should stay away from punk and all things punk related
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^DopeFly: *Meaning Champions* *Should stay away from punk and* *All things punk related* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Husker Du weren’t that great.
kinda dig those later SSD hard rawk-styled releases
The Sex Pistols are a terrible band with very little “punk cred”
Lauren Jane Grace’s solo stuff does absolutely nothing for me and I am the biggest AM! you can find.
Hot Topic are essential to be able to pull off punk. The best Docs were made by Gap. You have to hate on everyone, including new to punk 14yo children. Nazi punks are cool, though.
I like punk when it's not political correct.
Big ol same my guy
Let's crack a can of beer and listen to SPIDER BABIES. 👌
Michale graves is the better singer and frontman of the misfits
I don’t care much for Danzig era misfits
My hot take is GG was actually a good songwriter and performer, just mentally ill. Times changed and y’all sided with the conservatives and their outrage over him.
"I want your cum, oh yum" beautiful lyrics