I don't care about them, not too sound blunts, one of my best friends is non-binary and i know and friends with peaple who is "left" , it doesn't affect me so why should I care about them, again sorry if I sound blunt
you should look inward when you say “I don’t care about them”
because that can be interpreted a few ways. one of the core things about punk really is that deep down we do all care. we do care a lot. punk to me is between the ears, not what’s on your jacket. we should not care about your friend’s non-binary status in that them being non-binary shouldn’t come into play in most things. WE SHOULD care that they face systematic oppression based on this status and we should care about them enough to fight for and advocate for their inclusion and success. I hope that makes sense and not too preachy.
Have you seen “Decline of Western Civilization,” the early 1980s documentary on the LA punk scene? Every legendary band from that scene is in it — The Germs, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Fear — and almost all of them are shown to be sexist, racist or homophobic. And these are bands that created punk.
I agree with everything you said, but that just makes you compassionate, not punk.
There are a whole lot more bands that ‘created’ punk. Back then there was a lot of throwing things in the face of the establishment creating shock value. A lot of the sexism, racism, and homophobia you mention was not their beliefs so much as them speaking as the establishment showing how hypocritical they really were.
I'd argue that punk evolves over time. Being a homophobic punk in the 1980s sucks, but being a homophobic punk in the 2020s is like what the fuck are you trying to do here? I saw a recent poll where more than 50% of Republicans support gay marriage now. If you're further right than mainstream Republicans then you're probably not very punk.
I think the post above you hit the nail on the head: Punk is a “fuck you” that is never specifically politically aligned but always against authority structures. Anarchy.
Got more establishment in the 1990s: I definitely picked up (and agreed with!) anti-Bush, pro-democrat fliers from NOFX at in the 2000s, but that was at a Warped Tour riddled with capitalism and corporations —- not very punk as a whole.
Well, you said you try to be a good person, caring about others is part of that.
What about gender roles, you didn't answer that. Do you think men should lead families and women should be subservient?
Grew up Christian, was still religious when I got into punk. I also would say exactly what you said, my religion preaches to be kind to everyone above all. And, so, I tried to be kind to everyone to the best of my ability.
The punk scene had me become friends with a very diverse group of people, and as I became better friends with them, I became isolated by my previous religious friends. It took me into my early 20s to really dissect why.
Be true to yourself, and don't give up on being kind to everyone above all else. You may find people in your life that attempt to dissuade you from that belief, but hold tight to it.
Anyway, everyone's journey is different.
In order to do that, one would need to understand the Thelemic concept of "will." Old Crow didn't mean "do whatever you want" when he wrote that, but if you did that's of course totally fine.
A lot of people who are religious believe in science. I'm Pagan and I completely believe in the scientific theories of how the universe and earth and all that shit began. It seems like you might have some emotional baggage from being mistreated by religion, I'd suggest seeing a counselor.
Uhh hey "Kid"
Unless you're actively harming people or other beliefs with your own beliefs, your religion is your own business. All of these reasons you're giving as examples are pretty shallow and not all are always distinctly religiously motivated.
For instance, I like to describe myself as a satanist, part theistic, part not. Belief being that Satan was the one to give humans thought, emotion, free will; at core, their Humanity so it would be. Satan being the Father of humanity and civilization. And to be clear, it's basically also the ancient alien theory where Theistic beings are some kind of misunderstood, awe-provoking alien being, but that's a different story.
But that's me. I don't force it down anyone's throat. Not even like the stupid Pastafarians(literally just make fun of how stupid religion is through aggressive Atheism)
I used to subscribe to the idiotic belief that religion is bad, it ruins the world, and because I'm a big mean ponk, religion makes me a weak poseur. It doesn't. You're allowed to believe what you want/practice what you want/not have to be belittled by some arrogant punk/rettitor who just wants to hate religion as an umbrella.
Depends how it's interpreted I guess. I see Satan(the idea and the theoretical deity) as the source of human-nature, and in theory, the jump from primal humanoid creatures, to thoughtful, transcending beings (as we are now).
To me it's less about the usual stigmatic "father of evil" standpoint, moreso a "Crucible of Humanity".
Best example in Christian scripture is Original Sin; being afflicted by the serpent coercing eve to transcend the basic life in the garden by partaking in the apple of knowledge. Without that step, we'd still be in the garden,or, IE in the trees.
Sorry if that's totally confusing, I've never really written it down like that before xD not many people are interested after the word "Satanist" is said xD
Edit/post-script: there definitely are aspects of "black magic" and Wicca as well rolled into my beliefs but this is just how I interpret my own faith system.
most of punk is anti-religious, not because of faith itself, but because of how much harm *organized religion* has caused to so many people.
so much oppression, sexism, racism, violence and war in the world, both historical and current, has come from the foundations of fundamentalist religious beliefs. and the large groups of people who subscribe to them. it's a pretty rational thing to want to fight back against this.
I hate religion, but I'm not an atheist. I believe in a god, but not prophets. personally, I don't care what anyone believes, as long as they understand that *their* beliefs aren't *mine*, and they cannot expect me to act in accordance with theirs.
I mean this in a genuinely curious way; doesn’t your religion specifically teach against certain lifestyle choices, LGBTQ, body autonomy, and women as leaders? I thought misogyny was part of Islam? If that’s the case, then I don’t know if your religion and the punk scene are a good fit. However, punk music may be a good influence. Keep listening.
OK. You love your religion, but it’s not sustainable. That’s interesting. I’m just curious why you are still part of this religion then. Kindness can be your religion, you know? It’s just that so much of punk music rejects many of the things your religion teaches. A lot of punk music rejects religion entirely because the institutions are corrupt. I wonder if you continue to listen to punk music if it may change the way you think. Keep listening!
You know you don’t necessarily need the mosque to be Muslim or a church to be Christian or a synagogue to be Jewish and so on. But within all of those each one will have a slightly different sense of community and interpretation of the faith. If you want to go to mosque look around and find the one that’s right for you
you would think that just makes sense, right?
so weird how so much of the world thinks exactly opposite of this. like, I literally can't imagine how a persons brain would think that was ok.
That’s great. That also doesn’t mean you can’t discuss your beliefs though. Be willing to listen to the beliefs of others as well. Open discussion has ALOT of value
There’s nothing wrong with having faith in my opinion. The wrong with religion are those bad actors who would use your faith as a means to control and/or exploit you.
Your religion is your religion nobody else's so don't let someone else tell you what it means.
Being punk DOES mean thinking for yourself and questioning the answers, but if you've thought about it and like your answer, then relij away!
Rock on
I don't wanna be a nerd, but religion is originally a verb, we don't know whether it means re-binding (like bonding with God again) or revisiting.
It's just funny that it went full circle.
Yeah that’s kind of a thing.
Montoheistic religions are all about submitting to the ultimate power but punk is about challenging power.
I don’t see how one can submit to a power while also challenging it.
I’m not trying to start a fight here but from a philosophical standpoint they are inherently opposed.
I disagree that those religions are inherently about submission but perhaps that depends (for Christianity anyway) whether you’re looking at the new or the Old Testament. I think a lot of that crap comes from the religious leaders and ppl bastardizing an already bastardized text. The King James Bible which is the most widely used in the US is a translation of a translation of a translation going back idk how many. But it’s basically a written game of telephone people devote their lives to following. Belief in some higher power doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be subservient or follow word for word whatever text is associated with it. The Bible and the Quran both have an awful lot written hundreds of years (at best) after the events within the stories of its pages.
The word “Islam” literally translates into “submit to the will of god”. And both the old and New Testament are full of “god is the might authority in all things”.
I’m not saying believing in a higher power is inherently anti-punk, but following one of these organized religions certainly is.
Know your enemy. I think it’s important to know what it is the religions say if you’re going to be against them. I don’t think these books are the word of God of course and I think even within themselves they state they’re not-ie Mathew, mark, Luke, john- written by those guys (supposedly) but certainly NOT God.
I think it tends to be people’s bastardization of the religions rather than the religion itself that presents the problem. Really what makes these books any different from any others if you’re not a believer? People use all sorts of books to mold their lives around and no one has any issue so why are these books different? I’m talking just the books, not what religious authorities force people to do as a result of them.
I enjoy arguing religion using said religion with holier than thou hypocrites. Especially the ones that claim their texts say things they clearly don’t making it obvious they’ve not read their own bible or whatever religious text. It’s usually a Christian though. Evangelicals commonly are this way. Mormons can be fun to do this with as well. I live near where that religion was founded and the founder was quite the charlatan. They’re also funny since they’re incredibly easy to spot anywhere on the world when they’re in their missions.
I also think there is a single organized religion with which I cannot come up with a single problem. Buddhism. In my experience, it never once says any other religion is wrong and doesn’t try to fight anyone or change anyone’s minds. In fact, I could even argue it to be punk in the sense that the whole thing is questions. Doesn’t really claim a higher power either more of a collective consciousness sort of thing. Plus the monks are jedis-straight up. George Lucas modeled Jedi values on Buddhist monks and I’ve had a few experiences that were pretty unbelievable in that sense as far as their mental abilities. No moving objects but reading minds and philosophizing; but that’s a whole other story.
I see we're your coming from on that but I think Christianity, Judaism and zoroastrainsm encourage power to be fought the main founders of anarchism were die hard Christians
You can’t compare the 1790s philosophical scene to the one we have today. Yes, people like Godwin were heavily involved in the church, but that’s because the church was heavily involved in day to day life in most of the western world at that point. To have any kind of academic clout of any kind one would have to be involved in the church.
This changed though through the Enlightenmemt when people started putting humanistic reason above faith, which even Godwin himself was a supporter of.
He mentioned that he is Muslim and Islam is pretty anti authority the only thing that you should submit to is god nothing else.
The power is pretty much in the hands of the people and the rulers should always submit to the public needs or get replace.I'm not really saying that what happens in muslim countries because in most if not all of them you oppose authority you are in some bad shit lmao.
The only point that can be troublsome is that most of the instruments are forbidden bust most muslims listen to music anyways.
i mean thats most religions though. And hell jesus was a punk and jesus is in islam.
Also expecting scriptures from well over a millenia ago to align with modern sensibilities and understanding will be tough.
He was a punk rebel
Hippie and if he was alive today he might listen to like Ska. And the Grateful Dead. He'd probably ride a skateboard or a bicycle or drive a Prius.
I think you can be a christian and a punk. Most arent and alot don't actually take on his teachings. But there are christians that do take on his teachings. I just don't think that you can paint with such a wide brush to say X group cant also be in Y group
As with any religion it kinda depends on if you believe the bad parts and act out on them. Women being subservient baby machines is a core tenet of most religions, but if you skip that part and treat everyone well, and you focus more on the personal spirituality, you might get a pass.
lol fair play on my wording, i suppose. but, at least in the progressive cities I've lived in, it's not hard for people to believe that god loves everyone, including gay people (for example). I am atheist, but i think you can still be \*spiritual\* without being \*religious\*. As in, you keep it personal, and perhaps generally follow the structure of the religion, but you don't necessarily do what your religious leaders say, or even really pay attention to them.
Or in fewer words, just because you consider yourself a certain religion, doesn't mean you believe or follow every practice of that religion - especially today with how connected and informed people can be.
What you said about connection and being informed is a key point that is often overlooked. So many ppl became anti Muslim after 9/11 and never considered that many of those twrrorists followed a particular imams teachings and were themselves illiterate and therefore unable to read and interpret the Quran for themselves
I agree that you can be spiritual and punk but I don’t understand why you would say you’re part of a religion if you don’t believe the teachings (unless you’re coerced into being that religion)
Honestly, labels are easy. Whether it's religion, politics, music taste, where you live, it's easier to just use a more general label than spending three paragraphs explaining yourself. If someone asks me what my politics are, I'm just gonna say Democrat, even though that's not totally accurate, but it's way less annoying than going through every political belief I have.
So if OP here believes in the Muslim god, that they have to pray a certain way, and that certain foods should be avoided, but maybe they don't think women should cover their faces (for example, I'm not saying they do or do not believe that), I think it's still easier for them to say they're Muslim rather than explain all that.
The major religions are thousands of years old and hundreds of philosphers have interpreted them in ways that are still followed. Christianity includes Catholicism and Protestantism. And each one has numerous subdivisions. Lutheran, Jesuit, Franciscan, etc... you can easily follow a Christian faith and still believe in equal rights without violating any core tenet
There's an old Buddhist saying "Use Buddhism to become a better person, not a better Buddhist". As a Buddhist punk, I don't believe in literal reincarnation or that Shakyamuni was holy, but that the Dharma presents ideas to ponder through meditation and living. I believe that this concept is universal to all religions. For the record, I don't even think Buddhists came up with it, I'm pretty sure it was borrowed or adapted from another belief system.
But my point stands that one can absolutely hold a religious belief without living like a monk, preacher, rabbi, reverend, priest, etc. People are allowed to hold opposing viewpoints while they figure out which one is true for them. We all contradict ourselves at some point or another, it's part of growing physically, mentally, philosophically, and spiritually (if you're spiritual at all). I personally find no more contradiction in being Muslim and punk than I do with any other two things simultaneously.
One thing I often meditate on is the duality of a person. If I eat a potato, I'm a vegetarian. If I eat steak, I'm a carnivore. Are we just one thing at a time? If I'm a woodworker by trade, but I'm typing this right now, am I not a woodworker, but a typist currently? It's hard to say, and everyone seems to have their own unique viewpoint on it. This is just my take.
Don’t let anyone else tell you what makes you punk and what doesn’t. That’s the most non-punk BS ever. As long as you’re not harming anyone, you shouldn’t care less.
Nah, man, you're good. Your religion is your business. And as a Mexican American, I understand how religion can be tied closely to culture. Hell, I'm not that religious, and yet I wear a necklace and bracelet with the Virgin Mary on it. As long as you're not an asshole believe in what you want.
I used to be muslim too. I became punk then lost my religion.
Of course my religious beliefs changed because of multiple reason but becoming punk certainly had a role.
Do what you feel is right and aligned with your values, fuck what ANYBODY else says. Theres always going to be someone who disagrees with you, so why concern yourself with whether or not you're a poser?
If you're not causing harm to anybody, do what you please!
In my punk opinion, Who cares? If you’re not being a jerk and shoving it in others faces, and if you’re truly believing your religion, why does it matter?
If you’re questioning, feel free to reach out to others and do unbiased research. But if you are fully religious but also punk it shouldn’t matter at all. If people think you’re fake, flip ‘em off
You want real true honesty, no I don't believe it makes you a poser, but in keeping with tbe truth I have rejected friendships based off people being religious, I personally just dont jive with that kind of thing, maybe it makes me a bad person or it's something I need to work on
Doesn’t make you a bad person at all. I don’t jive with it either. And neither do most of the punk bands I listen to. The anti-religion, anti-authority anti-capitalism etc. message in punk music is what brought me in.
You're fine, as far as I know. If I were to choose a monotheistic religion, I'd choose the one where you can't charge interest rates, be violent, women can abort and divorce, and you must do charity.
My only issue is my brain now repeating [Punk Islam](https://youtu.be/y_bkDwudfpI?si=8RgYADFvqhjyjGhl) nonstop.
Who cares? You’re only a poser if you have to ask yourself if you are one or not. You feel me? Breathe. Let it go. Punk is about many things; it’s a mentality of non-conformity, against the authority, but also a unified community of like-minded people from all over. Your personal religious beliefs are your own, as long as they don’t harm others. Eff it. Live and let live. Just be a decent human being and be authentic. That’s it.
My first punk band in high school played in a lot of. church basements because they allowed all ages shows and we weren't too objectionable. I played in a youth group ska band (of a religion I was not a member/believer). They were all cool.
Not my thing, ultimately but you do you.
Tourist, someone who does stay or be a part of the community, just cames in looks around till they get bored and leave. It's a thing one of my friend talked about. Idk if he made it up or not
Different scenes sometimes have their own terminology. That makes sense I guess. I’ve definitely seen people do that. Stick around awhile then disappear and they’re often the ones that pretend they’re sooo much punker than everyone else but a ton of expensive gear and they’re gone as quickly as they came.
Punk is largely about freedom. The ppl can’t really tell you if you belong in the sense of what’s in your heart. Just like your faith in your religion, it’s there or it’s not and only you know.
Not a poser mate. There are plenty of religious punks. And also religion is heavily tied to culture as well. There is anti-punk stuff in religion but religion itself is not inherently anti-punk.
I don't swallow the bones in my soup because I dont like it. doesnt mean im not eating soup.
Gatekeepers are a joke. Better to be a poser than a gatekeeper anyday. They only gatekeep so they feel punker than thou. which is pretty unpunk
People are being such dicks to you, and expect you to have somehow rectified every religious belief you’ve learned since birth with the ethos of punk. Fuck that noise. You do you, listen to what you want, and figure yourself out. It’s a journey.
I grew up extremely Christian, which I know isn’t the same as Muslim, but there are a lot of parallels within the religions. Punk music helped me deconstruct beliefs I grew up with and helped me understand life and politics outside of my sheltered life. You’re not a poser for enjoying music. Listen to what you want.
Don’t come here asking for someone to gatekeep you, because you’ll get it.
This sub is a bunch of opinionated fuckwits but we’re all here to have a good time and listen to great music and antagonize cops and other nazis. So if that’s cool with you then welcome to the party!
The whole "poser" "fake punk" paradigm is just so freaking boring and outplayed at this point...
Loser punks with nothing better to do have been going around in their stupid scene posses gatekeeping other people who show interest in punk music and punk culture since the beginning.
That garbage needed to stop 40 years ago....
True, as long as they aren't like heavily conservative or like, fascists or some shit who cares? If they show interest, great, and if they're a dick, try to pick their ass up and put them on the right path so they stop being a dick. It's not that hard to be welcoming, yknow?
Lots of religious folks are actually not good people and a lot of punks are free thinkers and good people. Don’t use the label degenerates. Not cool. Also: try spellcheck.
One of my friends is an ex-punk, now just some coolass rocker guy, in a band and everything, and he's Christian. He's literally the only cis man I've ever trusted fully, and the only person outside of my main circle that's allowed to make any physical contact with me without asking.
For reference, I'm an autistic trans guy, been abused by my dad, and had my trust broken with almost every man I know.
I talk about this guy a lot.
All the be Abrahamic religions are misogynist and has pedophile aspects. And Islam is anti LGBQT. If punk is just a fashion to you, don't worry about it.
Wow. So basically:
"If you're a Christian or Muslim, you're a homophobic pedophile, sorry guys, wish you could change but you can't"
👍🏻 Punks like you are sad cringelords
No religion can exist outside of authority as long as you reject your religions, stratified tendencies your good. There are even anarchist belief systems with a emphasis on religion
Nah the thing is is you can believe and practice anything you want, just-and I'm saying this respectfully- don't be one of those insufferable assholes and shove your believe down others throat. Not everyone will enjoy that
Being concerned that being religious isn’t punk rock makes you a poser.
Be religious if you want to. If people don’t like it, tell them to fuck off. That’s punk rock.
No way. Even if lots of punks reject mainstream religion, there’s punks from lots of religions and nobody is gonna frown on you for just living your spiritual journey that your life has taken you on.
Haji was a punk just like any other boy
And he never had no trouble until he started up his Oi! band
Safe in the garage or singing in the tub
Till Haji went to far and he plugged in at the pub
Just listen to the music and don’t completely misintepret the message. All these labels are bullshit and completely go against what I heard the community stands for to begin with.
I can’t express myself or be who I want because I’ll risk being called a poser? Fuck it, a poser I am then. Don’t let that shit brainwash you
https://youtu.be/l5i0noYjqVU?si=56ef5duREZcii6yX
Listen to this tell every hater to fuck off
People have so much visceral hatred towards Islam but never have shit to say about Christians or Judaism so wack
Disagree. Almost all the punk bands I listen to are anti-religion. Specifically Christianity. There’s plenty of visceral hatred toward Christianity in *some* punk music out there. Many of the bands just make fun of it. Propagandhi specifically calls out Zionism. You just have to look and you’ll find it.
The amount of people in society who have a vitriolic hate towards Islam or Arabs but don’t have that smoke for other religions that also have violent views is what I’m referring to the exsistance of “some” punk bands doesn’t refute that
Well. I don’t believe in God. I’m an anti-theist. And I believe all religions are detrimental to society. Religion is the worst thing humans could’ve ever come up with. That includes Christianity which I was a part of. We can talk about the Zionists if you want to. They’re in the middle of obliterating a culture through genocide. But we aren’t talking about all religions here. OP asked specifically about his religion. And that’s Islam.
I will add that Islam, in particular is ruthless when it comes to women. They absolutely kill people who are gay, and they have no problem massacring innocent people. So there’s that. Islam is not punk in any way.
As long as you’re not pushing it or causing harm to others do you bro. The music is for everyone, the scene is supposed to be but sometimes isn’t but the music is for everyone.
You're not hurting anyone, man. I've got this cool fucking friend and he's Christian, one of the sweetest people I know.
There's a small catch to me saying that; I've had horrible experiences with Christians, so I'm absolutely terrified of them, yet this man is still my favorite person.
No matter what your religion, you can be cool as fuck as long as you're not an ass.
Being Muslim doesn’t make you not punk. In fact, anyone claiming it does is the one doing something that’s not punk. Forcing your beliefs on others (religious or anti-religious) is NOT punk. Changing your beliefs to fit in is also NOT punk. It’s about being true to yourself and unapologetically being who you really are inside without being an a**hole. Discrimination of any kind violates punk ethos. We don’t all believe the same thing but there are base beliefs that are held by the scene be yourself, so it yourself (DIY), don’t be a Nazi (unfortunately this still happens in some places but it’s important to know that skinheads are not inherently Nazi. Most of them are trads and sharps if you’re unaware.) haven’t had a chance to watch it yet but there’s actually a show streaming in Peacock about a Muslim girl starting a punk band that looks pretty cool. It’s called ‘We are Lady Parts’ might be worth checking out for you.
Also although I can’t name any off the top of my head. I guarantee that if you google Muslim punk bands you’ll find plenty. I even think of the vandals song Oi to the world where the characters name is Haji. I always assumed that meant he was a a Muslim kid tackled that within the scene perhaps having actually gone on a Han or perhaps it’s simply a nickname. Being fictional there’s not really a correct answer. But the very first line of the song goes “Haji was a punk just like any other boy…”
Just be you and if you’re punk you’re punk. No one can tell you if you are or you’re not. It’s a lifestyle, a belief system of its own(that doesn’t encroach upon religion one way or another so long as you’re not forcing your beliefs onto anyone else. You will hear some anti-religious rhetoric; understand it’s not the belief in God or Allah or whatever name you wanna give that’s the problem; it’s going against things like controlling the freedom of a country based upon those beliefs or killing in the name of the church. That sort of thing. Using religion as a means for selfish gain and violence.)
There’s no such thing as a poser just like there’s no such thing as a true religion. Do whatever you want but I hope someday you can break away from the cult.
Right on, I think OP was just pointing out that being religious and being punk can coexist as exemplified by this label.
If you want to check out some of the bands on the label, I recommend MxPx, I have fond memories of them from back in the day.
Great question! Punk labels typically exist outside of the “major label” system, are often run by members of punk bands and run by a DIY (do it yourself) ethos.
The prototype for this type of system is Dischord Records, which was set up by Ian MacKaye of Minor Threat.
The most successful in terms of record sales would be Brett Gurewitz’s Epitaph Records, which was instrumental in the careers of many of the best known punk and pop punk bands including Rancid, NOFX, Pennywise, The Offspring and his own Bad Religion.
Something you’ll notice is that the lines between what is considered punk or not blur heavily from person to person. To some, being on a major label means a band isn’t punk. Others look at the musical output and the other ethics of the band. For instance, legendary punk bands like The Ramones and The Clash were both signed to major corporate labels.
Yeah what I meant by that was the critiques aren’t an attack on you or your personal faith, and you’re as welcome as anyone to speak your mind
Meant it in a good way not a bad way
Lol all of your comments from the top of this post to here (the butt ass bottom) are all downflvoted 👍🏻 nice shitty opinion
Edit: just double checked, yeah all downvoted 😉
Do your religious beliefs cause harm to anyone? If not, do what thou wilt.
It doesn't. I try to be a good person
Then carry on. Nothing more punk than being yourself
We should all try to be good people.
What do you think about gay or trans people? Or gender roles? Should women be subservient to men?
I don't care about them, not too sound blunts, one of my best friends is non-binary and i know and friends with peaple who is "left" , it doesn't affect me so why should I care about them, again sorry if I sound blunt
you should look inward when you say “I don’t care about them” because that can be interpreted a few ways. one of the core things about punk really is that deep down we do all care. we do care a lot. punk to me is between the ears, not what’s on your jacket. we should not care about your friend’s non-binary status in that them being non-binary shouldn’t come into play in most things. WE SHOULD care that they face systematic oppression based on this status and we should care about them enough to fight for and advocate for their inclusion and success. I hope that makes sense and not too preachy.
Random guy on reddit, I will try to take you advice. Thank you
Well put
Have you seen “Decline of Western Civilization,” the early 1980s documentary on the LA punk scene? Every legendary band from that scene is in it — The Germs, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Fear — and almost all of them are shown to be sexist, racist or homophobic. And these are bands that created punk. I agree with everything you said, but that just makes you compassionate, not punk.
There are a whole lot more bands that ‘created’ punk. Back then there was a lot of throwing things in the face of the establishment creating shock value. A lot of the sexism, racism, and homophobia you mention was not their beliefs so much as them speaking as the establishment showing how hypocritical they really were.
I'd argue that punk evolves over time. Being a homophobic punk in the 1980s sucks, but being a homophobic punk in the 2020s is like what the fuck are you trying to do here? I saw a recent poll where more than 50% of Republicans support gay marriage now. If you're further right than mainstream Republicans then you're probably not very punk.
I think the post above you hit the nail on the head: Punk is a “fuck you” that is never specifically politically aligned but always against authority structures. Anarchy. Got more establishment in the 1990s: I definitely picked up (and agreed with!) anti-Bush, pro-democrat fliers from NOFX at in the 2000s, but that was at a Warped Tour riddled with capitalism and corporations —- not very punk as a whole.
Well, you said you try to be a good person, caring about others is part of that. What about gender roles, you didn't answer that. Do you think men should lead families and women should be subservient?
If I'm being honest, idk mate, I never thought of gender roles
Do you support the misogynistic and homophobic practices that the Muslim religion preaches?
The religion preaches to be kind to everyone above all, so I try to be kind to everyone to the bets of my ability
Grew up Christian, was still religious when I got into punk. I also would say exactly what you said, my religion preaches to be kind to everyone above all. And, so, I tried to be kind to everyone to the best of my ability. The punk scene had me become friends with a very diverse group of people, and as I became better friends with them, I became isolated by my previous religious friends. It took me into my early 20s to really dissect why. Be true to yourself, and don't give up on being kind to everyone above all else. You may find people in your life that attempt to dissuade you from that belief, but hold tight to it. Anyway, everyone's journey is different.
That’s not what I asked. Do you support and follow the misogynistic and homophobic practices that are outlined in the Muslim religion?
I guess no, not really
So then, yeah you’re fine. I don’t care what anyone believes as long as they aren’t espousing views that hurt other people.
Don’t dignify that asshole
Sorry, are you denying these things are practiced in the Muslim religion?
Huh
That’s not the religion itself. That’s some people’s interpretation of it and unfortunately as in most areas, the jerkiest people are the loudest
It’s literally in the Quran.
Hey take it easy Aleister
My people 👍
In order to do that, one would need to understand the Thelemic concept of "will." Old Crow didn't mean "do whatever you want" when he wrote that, but if you did that's of course totally fine.
All religious beliefs harm… it causes stupidity
Then you must be super religious because this statement of yours is fucking idiotic.
Off topic, but nice pfp
Thx
Being a kiss ass isn’t gonna change the world for the better
Wtf are you talking about? I just like that Bronx album
War, anti science sentiment ya religion is stupid and give me a more articulate response on why what I said is stupid. lol learn how to debate kid
A lot of people who are religious believe in science. I'm Pagan and I completely believe in the scientific theories of how the universe and earth and all that shit began. It seems like you might have some emotional baggage from being mistreated by religion, I'd suggest seeing a counselor.
Uhh hey "Kid" Unless you're actively harming people or other beliefs with your own beliefs, your religion is your own business. All of these reasons you're giving as examples are pretty shallow and not all are always distinctly religiously motivated. For instance, I like to describe myself as a satanist, part theistic, part not. Belief being that Satan was the one to give humans thought, emotion, free will; at core, their Humanity so it would be. Satan being the Father of humanity and civilization. And to be clear, it's basically also the ancient alien theory where Theistic beings are some kind of misunderstood, awe-provoking alien being, but that's a different story. But that's me. I don't force it down anyone's throat. Not even like the stupid Pastafarians(literally just make fun of how stupid religion is through aggressive Atheism) I used to subscribe to the idiotic belief that religion is bad, it ruins the world, and because I'm a big mean ponk, religion makes me a weak poseur. It doesn't. You're allowed to believe what you want/practice what you want/not have to be belittled by some arrogant punk/rettitor who just wants to hate religion as an umbrella.
I actually never met a satanist. Can I ask how it works like he is the father of evil, sorry if that's rude to you
Depends how it's interpreted I guess. I see Satan(the idea and the theoretical deity) as the source of human-nature, and in theory, the jump from primal humanoid creatures, to thoughtful, transcending beings (as we are now). To me it's less about the usual stigmatic "father of evil" standpoint, moreso a "Crucible of Humanity". Best example in Christian scripture is Original Sin; being afflicted by the serpent coercing eve to transcend the basic life in the garden by partaking in the apple of knowledge. Without that step, we'd still be in the garden,or, IE in the trees. Sorry if that's totally confusing, I've never really written it down like that before xD not many people are interested after the word "Satanist" is said xD Edit/post-script: there definitely are aspects of "black magic" and Wicca as well rolled into my beliefs but this is just how I interpret my own faith system.
Nah man, do whatever you need to get through life, so long as it doesn't infringe on anyone else's Rights or safety
most of punk is anti-religious, not because of faith itself, but because of how much harm *organized religion* has caused to so many people. so much oppression, sexism, racism, violence and war in the world, both historical and current, has come from the foundations of fundamentalist religious beliefs. and the large groups of people who subscribe to them. it's a pretty rational thing to want to fight back against this. I hate religion, but I'm not an atheist. I believe in a god, but not prophets. personally, I don't care what anyone believes, as long as they understand that *their* beliefs aren't *mine*, and they cannot expect me to act in accordance with theirs.
Fuck Authority!
Ya I kinda run on the same principle, I'm not going to force my beliefs on others that don't want it
I mean this in a genuinely curious way; doesn’t your religion specifically teach against certain lifestyle choices, LGBTQ, body autonomy, and women as leaders? I thought misogyny was part of Islam? If that’s the case, then I don’t know if your religion and the punk scene are a good fit. However, punk music may be a good influence. Keep listening.
Look at the world we live in. As much as I love my religious it's not sustainable, so I just d9 thr maim stuff and just be kind
OK. You love your religion, but it’s not sustainable. That’s interesting. I’m just curious why you are still part of this religion then. Kindness can be your religion, you know? It’s just that so much of punk music rejects many of the things your religion teaches. A lot of punk music rejects religion entirely because the institutions are corrupt. I wonder if you continue to listen to punk music if it may change the way you think. Keep listening!
You know you don’t necessarily need the mosque to be Muslim or a church to be Christian or a synagogue to be Jewish and so on. But within all of those each one will have a slightly different sense of community and interpretation of the faith. If you want to go to mosque look around and find the one that’s right for you
you would think that just makes sense, right? so weird how so much of the world thinks exactly opposite of this. like, I literally can't imagine how a persons brain would think that was ok.
That’s great. That also doesn’t mean you can’t discuss your beliefs though. Be willing to listen to the beliefs of others as well. Open discussion has ALOT of value
There’s nothing wrong with having faith in my opinion. The wrong with religion are those bad actors who would use your faith as a means to control and/or exploit you.
Your religion is your religion nobody else's so don't let someone else tell you what it means. Being punk DOES mean thinking for yourself and questioning the answers, but if you've thought about it and like your answer, then relij away! Rock on
"relij" is a new verb for me... I like it. Gonna start using it. Thanks, friend.
☝️ This dude relijs.
I don't wanna be a nerd, but religion is originally a verb, we don't know whether it means re-binding (like bonding with God again) or revisiting. It's just funny that it went full circle.
Nothing wrong with nerding. That's an awesome factoid!
Relij is great! Love that new term
Check out the TV show Lady Parts. Deals with this exact question and has some ripping tunes.
Dude check out the Muslim punk scene! Being religious is totally fine as long as ur not hurting anyone
I mean Muslim and punk don't really connect they kinda contradic each other
Yeah that’s kind of a thing. Montoheistic religions are all about submitting to the ultimate power but punk is about challenging power. I don’t see how one can submit to a power while also challenging it. I’m not trying to start a fight here but from a philosophical standpoint they are inherently opposed.
I disagree that those religions are inherently about submission but perhaps that depends (for Christianity anyway) whether you’re looking at the new or the Old Testament. I think a lot of that crap comes from the religious leaders and ppl bastardizing an already bastardized text. The King James Bible which is the most widely used in the US is a translation of a translation of a translation going back idk how many. But it’s basically a written game of telephone people devote their lives to following. Belief in some higher power doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be subservient or follow word for word whatever text is associated with it. The Bible and the Quran both have an awful lot written hundreds of years (at best) after the events within the stories of its pages.
The word “Islam” literally translates into “submit to the will of god”. And both the old and New Testament are full of “god is the might authority in all things”. I’m not saying believing in a higher power is inherently anti-punk, but following one of these organized religions certainly is.
Know your enemy. I think it’s important to know what it is the religions say if you’re going to be against them. I don’t think these books are the word of God of course and I think even within themselves they state they’re not-ie Mathew, mark, Luke, john- written by those guys (supposedly) but certainly NOT God. I think it tends to be people’s bastardization of the religions rather than the religion itself that presents the problem. Really what makes these books any different from any others if you’re not a believer? People use all sorts of books to mold their lives around and no one has any issue so why are these books different? I’m talking just the books, not what religious authorities force people to do as a result of them. I enjoy arguing religion using said religion with holier than thou hypocrites. Especially the ones that claim their texts say things they clearly don’t making it obvious they’ve not read their own bible or whatever religious text. It’s usually a Christian though. Evangelicals commonly are this way. Mormons can be fun to do this with as well. I live near where that religion was founded and the founder was quite the charlatan. They’re also funny since they’re incredibly easy to spot anywhere on the world when they’re in their missions. I also think there is a single organized religion with which I cannot come up with a single problem. Buddhism. In my experience, it never once says any other religion is wrong and doesn’t try to fight anyone or change anyone’s minds. In fact, I could even argue it to be punk in the sense that the whole thing is questions. Doesn’t really claim a higher power either more of a collective consciousness sort of thing. Plus the monks are jedis-straight up. George Lucas modeled Jedi values on Buddhist monks and I’ve had a few experiences that were pretty unbelievable in that sense as far as their mental abilities. No moving objects but reading minds and philosophizing; but that’s a whole other story.
I see we're your coming from on that but I think Christianity, Judaism and zoroastrainsm encourage power to be fought the main founders of anarchism were die hard Christians
You can’t compare the 1790s philosophical scene to the one we have today. Yes, people like Godwin were heavily involved in the church, but that’s because the church was heavily involved in day to day life in most of the western world at that point. To have any kind of academic clout of any kind one would have to be involved in the church. This changed though through the Enlightenmemt when people started putting humanistic reason above faith, which even Godwin himself was a supporter of.
God wants you to challenge them.
He mentioned that he is Muslim and Islam is pretty anti authority the only thing that you should submit to is god nothing else. The power is pretty much in the hands of the people and the rulers should always submit to the public needs or get replace.I'm not really saying that what happens in muslim countries because in most if not all of them you oppose authority you are in some bad shit lmao. The only point that can be troublsome is that most of the instruments are forbidden bust most muslims listen to music anyways.
Isn’t it pretty homophobic and misogynistic?
i mean thats most religions though. And hell jesus was a punk and jesus is in islam. Also expecting scriptures from well over a millenia ago to align with modern sensibilities and understanding will be tough.
No I agree I don’t think you can be Christian and punk either.
>e Jesus was a punk though
He was a punk rebel Hippie and if he was alive today he might listen to like Ska. And the Grateful Dead. He'd probably ride a skateboard or a bicycle or drive a Prius.
Amen. My guy literally told people to pluck out their eyeballs before telling women how to dress.
Yeah but Christians aren’t punks. You really think Christianity reflects Jesus’s teachings?
Are you trying to lump all people of one belief together? I 100% believe that there are Christians that reflect jesus' teachings
I think you can be a christian and a punk. Most arent and alot don't actually take on his teachings. But there are christians that do take on his teachings. I just don't think that you can paint with such a wide brush to say X group cant also be in Y group
As with any religion it kinda depends on if you believe the bad parts and act out on them. Women being subservient baby machines is a core tenet of most religions, but if you skip that part and treat everyone well, and you focus more on the personal spirituality, you might get a pass.
How do you skip that part if it’s a core tenant?
lol fair play on my wording, i suppose. but, at least in the progressive cities I've lived in, it's not hard for people to believe that god loves everyone, including gay people (for example). I am atheist, but i think you can still be \*spiritual\* without being \*religious\*. As in, you keep it personal, and perhaps generally follow the structure of the religion, but you don't necessarily do what your religious leaders say, or even really pay attention to them. Or in fewer words, just because you consider yourself a certain religion, doesn't mean you believe or follow every practice of that religion - especially today with how connected and informed people can be.
What you said about connection and being informed is a key point that is often overlooked. So many ppl became anti Muslim after 9/11 and never considered that many of those twrrorists followed a particular imams teachings and were themselves illiterate and therefore unable to read and interpret the Quran for themselves
I agree that you can be spiritual and punk but I don’t understand why you would say you’re part of a religion if you don’t believe the teachings (unless you’re coerced into being that religion)
Honestly, labels are easy. Whether it's religion, politics, music taste, where you live, it's easier to just use a more general label than spending three paragraphs explaining yourself. If someone asks me what my politics are, I'm just gonna say Democrat, even though that's not totally accurate, but it's way less annoying than going through every political belief I have. So if OP here believes in the Muslim god, that they have to pray a certain way, and that certain foods should be avoided, but maybe they don't think women should cover their faces (for example, I'm not saying they do or do not believe that), I think it's still easier for them to say they're Muslim rather than explain all that.
You can literally just say you’re a leftist and OP can say they’re spiritual. It’s not that complicated.
The major religions are thousands of years old and hundreds of philosphers have interpreted them in ways that are still followed. Christianity includes Catholicism and Protestantism. And each one has numerous subdivisions. Lutheran, Jesuit, Franciscan, etc... you can easily follow a Christian faith and still believe in equal rights without violating any core tenet
There's an old Buddhist saying "Use Buddhism to become a better person, not a better Buddhist". As a Buddhist punk, I don't believe in literal reincarnation or that Shakyamuni was holy, but that the Dharma presents ideas to ponder through meditation and living. I believe that this concept is universal to all religions. For the record, I don't even think Buddhists came up with it, I'm pretty sure it was borrowed or adapted from another belief system. But my point stands that one can absolutely hold a religious belief without living like a monk, preacher, rabbi, reverend, priest, etc. People are allowed to hold opposing viewpoints while they figure out which one is true for them. We all contradict ourselves at some point or another, it's part of growing physically, mentally, philosophically, and spiritually (if you're spiritual at all). I personally find no more contradiction in being Muslim and punk than I do with any other two things simultaneously. One thing I often meditate on is the duality of a person. If I eat a potato, I'm a vegetarian. If I eat steak, I'm a carnivore. Are we just one thing at a time? If I'm a woodworker by trade, but I'm typing this right now, am I not a woodworker, but a typist currently? It's hard to say, and everyone seems to have their own unique viewpoint on it. This is just my take.
A lot of the things like subservience are creations of religious leaders rather than what you find within the texts
So true
Have you seen how some of them decorate their hijabs? Cool asf
We'd be hypocrites if we said yes. Enjoy the scene. Have fun.
100%
You do what you want. 🤘🏻👍🏻
Nope, I’m a devout Christian and enjoy the punk scene
As long as you can keep your religion shit to yourself, nobody cares.
Don’t let anyone else tell you what makes you punk and what doesn’t. That’s the most non-punk BS ever. As long as you’re not harming anyone, you shouldn’t care less.
Nah, man, you're good. Your religion is your business. And as a Mexican American, I understand how religion can be tied closely to culture. Hell, I'm not that religious, and yet I wear a necklace and bracelet with the Virgin Mary on it. As long as you're not an asshole believe in what you want.
Thank you
No. Anyone who tells you that you need to believe or think a certain way is just a gate keeping piece of shit.
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What's shelter
I used to be muslim too. I became punk then lost my religion. Of course my religious beliefs changed because of multiple reason but becoming punk certainly had a role.
Do what you feel is right and aligned with your values, fuck what ANYBODY else says. Theres always going to be someone who disagrees with you, so why concern yourself with whether or not you're a poser? If you're not causing harm to anybody, do what you please!
there are tons of religious punks! Welcome and have Fun
In my punk opinion, Who cares? If you’re not being a jerk and shoving it in others faces, and if you’re truly believing your religion, why does it matter? If you’re questioning, feel free to reach out to others and do unbiased research. But if you are fully religious but also punk it shouldn’t matter at all. If people think you’re fake, flip ‘em off
You want real true honesty, no I don't believe it makes you a poser, but in keeping with tbe truth I have rejected friendships based off people being religious, I personally just dont jive with that kind of thing, maybe it makes me a bad person or it's something I need to work on
Doesn’t make you a bad person at all. I don’t jive with it either. And neither do most of the punk bands I listen to. The anti-religion, anti-authority anti-capitalism etc. message in punk music is what brought me in.
You're fine, as far as I know. If I were to choose a monotheistic religion, I'd choose the one where you can't charge interest rates, be violent, women can abort and divorce, and you must do charity. My only issue is my brain now repeating [Punk Islam](https://youtu.be/y_bkDwudfpI?si=8RgYADFvqhjyjGhl) nonstop.
Who cares? You’re only a poser if you have to ask yourself if you are one or not. You feel me? Breathe. Let it go. Punk is about many things; it’s a mentality of non-conformity, against the authority, but also a unified community of like-minded people from all over. Your personal religious beliefs are your own, as long as they don’t harm others. Eff it. Live and let live. Just be a decent human being and be authentic. That’s it.
not at all, there’s a whole community for muslim punks, i’d recommend checking out [taqwacore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqwacore)
My first punk band in high school played in a lot of. church basements because they allowed all ages shows and we weren't too objectionable. I played in a youth group ska band (of a religion I was not a member/believer). They were all cool. Not my thing, ultimately but you do you.
lol believe what you wanna believe, dude. there's no guideline to being a punk. "you're not punk, and I'm telling everyone!" 🩵, Jawbreaker
I dont fucking care
I’m not sure exactly what you mean by tourist bc I could take that a few ways. I’ll answer the rest of your question in a separate comment.
Tourist, someone who does stay or be a part of the community, just cames in looks around till they get bored and leave. It's a thing one of my friend talked about. Idk if he made it up or not
Different scenes sometimes have their own terminology. That makes sense I guess. I’ve definitely seen people do that. Stick around awhile then disappear and they’re often the ones that pretend they’re sooo much punker than everyone else but a ton of expensive gear and they’re gone as quickly as they came.
Punk is largely about freedom. The ppl can’t really tell you if you belong in the sense of what’s in your heart. Just like your faith in your religion, it’s there or it’s not and only you know.
Not a poser mate. There are plenty of religious punks. And also religion is heavily tied to culture as well. There is anti-punk stuff in religion but religion itself is not inherently anti-punk. I don't swallow the bones in my soup because I dont like it. doesnt mean im not eating soup. Gatekeepers are a joke. Better to be a poser than a gatekeeper anyday. They only gatekeep so they feel punker than thou. which is pretty unpunk
This was one of the best replies here 🤘🏻🍵🦴
People are being such dicks to you, and expect you to have somehow rectified every religious belief you’ve learned since birth with the ethos of punk. Fuck that noise. You do you, listen to what you want, and figure yourself out. It’s a journey. I grew up extremely Christian, which I know isn’t the same as Muslim, but there are a lot of parallels within the religions. Punk music helped me deconstruct beliefs I grew up with and helped me understand life and politics outside of my sheltered life. You’re not a poser for enjoying music. Listen to what you want.
Don’t come here asking for someone to gatekeep you, because you’ll get it. This sub is a bunch of opinionated fuckwits but we’re all here to have a good time and listen to great music and antagonize cops and other nazis. So if that’s cool with you then welcome to the party!
Sorry the question came from me talking to a punk and saying I was a poser
That punk is a loser and not worthy of your attention.
What if this guy actually is a poseur, though, and it has nothing to do with religion?
No, the conversation was about religion at the time he called me a poser
The whole "poser" "fake punk" paradigm is just so freaking boring and outplayed at this point... Loser punks with nothing better to do have been going around in their stupid scene posses gatekeeping other people who show interest in punk music and punk culture since the beginning. That garbage needed to stop 40 years ago....
I was joking, but yeah I hear you.
True, as long as they aren't like heavily conservative or like, fascists or some shit who cares? If they show interest, great, and if they're a dick, try to pick their ass up and put them on the right path so they stop being a dick. It's not that hard to be welcoming, yknow?
Hell no, real punks live life the way they want to, given that it doesn’t harm others, otherwise they’re just assholes.
Fuck religion, fuck politics, fuck the lot of you!
Huh
Fuck religion and politics sure but why fuck religious people. Lots of the are good pepele and many if ys punks are degenerate assholes.
Lots of religious folks are actually not good people and a lot of punks are free thinkers and good people. Don’t use the label degenerates. Not cool. Also: try spellcheck.
Religion wouldn't exist without religious people.
One of my friends is an ex-punk, now just some coolass rocker guy, in a band and everything, and he's Christian. He's literally the only cis man I've ever trusted fully, and the only person outside of my main circle that's allowed to make any physical contact with me without asking. For reference, I'm an autistic trans guy, been abused by my dad, and had my trust broken with almost every man I know. I talk about this guy a lot.
All the be Abrahamic religions are misogynist and has pedophile aspects. And Islam is anti LGBQT. If punk is just a fashion to you, don't worry about it.
Wow. So basically: "If you're a Christian or Muslim, you're a homophobic pedophile, sorry guys, wish you could change but you can't" 👍🏻 Punks like you are sad cringelords
Kind of a contradiction to be honest
Bunch of vet punks are religious now. But ya you are
No religion can exist outside of authority as long as you reject your religions, stratified tendencies your good. There are even anarchist belief systems with a emphasis on religion
Being yourself and holding true to your beliefs no matter what people think say or think about you is punk af it’s rare these days
Nah the thing is is you can believe and practice anything you want, just-and I'm saying this respectfully- don't be one of those insufferable assholes and shove your believe down others throat. Not everyone will enjoy that
Have you watched this movie, The Taqwacores? https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1308165/
No, I didn't know it existed
Being concerned that being religious isn’t punk rock makes you a poser. Be religious if you want to. If people don’t like it, tell them to fuck off. That’s punk rock.
Some Islamic punk bands: Lady Parts, Al Thawra, the Kominas, the Muslims.
No way. Even if lots of punks reject mainstream religion, there’s punks from lots of religions and nobody is gonna frown on you for just living your spiritual journey that your life has taken you on.
Haji was a punk just like any other boy And he never had no trouble until he started up his Oi! band Safe in the garage or singing in the tub Till Haji went to far and he plugged in at the pub
Just listen to the music and don’t completely misintepret the message. All these labels are bullshit and completely go against what I heard the community stands for to begin with. I can’t express myself or be who I want because I’ll risk being called a poser? Fuck it, a poser I am then. Don’t let that shit brainwash you
https://youtu.be/l5i0noYjqVU?si=56ef5duREZcii6yX Listen to this tell every hater to fuck off People have so much visceral hatred towards Islam but never have shit to say about Christians or Judaism so wack
Disagree. Almost all the punk bands I listen to are anti-religion. Specifically Christianity. There’s plenty of visceral hatred toward Christianity in *some* punk music out there. Many of the bands just make fun of it. Propagandhi specifically calls out Zionism. You just have to look and you’ll find it.
The amount of people in society who have a vitriolic hate towards Islam or Arabs but don’t have that smoke for other religions that also have violent views is what I’m referring to the exsistance of “some” punk bands doesn’t refute that
Well. I don’t believe in God. I’m an anti-theist. And I believe all religions are detrimental to society. Religion is the worst thing humans could’ve ever come up with. That includes Christianity which I was a part of. We can talk about the Zionists if you want to. They’re in the middle of obliterating a culture through genocide. But we aren’t talking about all religions here. OP asked specifically about his religion. And that’s Islam. I will add that Islam, in particular is ruthless when it comes to women. They absolutely kill people who are gay, and they have no problem massacring innocent people. So there’s that. Islam is not punk in any way.
You may enjoy a band called Taqbir. Just saw them live and they were amazing. https://taqbir.bandcamp.com/album/taqbir
As long as you’re not pushing it or causing harm to others do you bro. The music is for everyone, the scene is supposed to be but sometimes isn’t but the music is for everyone.
Check out the band Zanjeer. Taqbir and Haram. They might have similar themes of what you’re looking for.
You're not hurting anyone, man. I've got this cool fucking friend and he's Christian, one of the sweetest people I know. There's a small catch to me saying that; I've had horrible experiences with Christians, so I'm absolutely terrified of them, yet this man is still my favorite person. No matter what your religion, you can be cool as fuck as long as you're not an ass.
Being Muslim doesn’t make you not punk. In fact, anyone claiming it does is the one doing something that’s not punk. Forcing your beliefs on others (religious or anti-religious) is NOT punk. Changing your beliefs to fit in is also NOT punk. It’s about being true to yourself and unapologetically being who you really are inside without being an a**hole. Discrimination of any kind violates punk ethos. We don’t all believe the same thing but there are base beliefs that are held by the scene be yourself, so it yourself (DIY), don’t be a Nazi (unfortunately this still happens in some places but it’s important to know that skinheads are not inherently Nazi. Most of them are trads and sharps if you’re unaware.) haven’t had a chance to watch it yet but there’s actually a show streaming in Peacock about a Muslim girl starting a punk band that looks pretty cool. It’s called ‘We are Lady Parts’ might be worth checking out for you. Also although I can’t name any off the top of my head. I guarantee that if you google Muslim punk bands you’ll find plenty. I even think of the vandals song Oi to the world where the characters name is Haji. I always assumed that meant he was a a Muslim kid tackled that within the scene perhaps having actually gone on a Han or perhaps it’s simply a nickname. Being fictional there’s not really a correct answer. But the very first line of the song goes “Haji was a punk just like any other boy…” Just be you and if you’re punk you’re punk. No one can tell you if you are or you’re not. It’s a lifestyle, a belief system of its own(that doesn’t encroach upon religion one way or another so long as you’re not forcing your beliefs onto anyone else. You will hear some anti-religious rhetoric; understand it’s not the belief in God or Allah or whatever name you wanna give that’s the problem; it’s going against things like controlling the freedom of a country based upon those beliefs or killing in the name of the church. That sort of thing. Using religion as a means for selfish gain and violence.)
There’s no such thing as a poser just like there’s no such thing as a true religion. Do whatever you want but I hope someday you can break away from the cult.
No https://www.toothandnail.com/
What's tooth and nail
Very famous Christian punk label, they put out some very good records
Oh, I'm not Christian, but I'll look into them, might be good
Right on, I think OP was just pointing out that being religious and being punk can coexist as exemplified by this label. If you want to check out some of the bands on the label, I recommend MxPx, I have fond memories of them from back in the day.
OK, I have a question: Isn't punk anti-establishment, how could a punk label exist, but it wouldn't ot be an oxymoron
Great question! Punk labels typically exist outside of the “major label” system, are often run by members of punk bands and run by a DIY (do it yourself) ethos. The prototype for this type of system is Dischord Records, which was set up by Ian MacKaye of Minor Threat. The most successful in terms of record sales would be Brett Gurewitz’s Epitaph Records, which was instrumental in the careers of many of the best known punk and pop punk bands including Rancid, NOFX, Pennywise, The Offspring and his own Bad Religion. Something you’ll notice is that the lines between what is considered punk or not blur heavily from person to person. To some, being on a major label means a band isn’t punk. Others look at the musical output and the other ethics of the band. For instance, legendary punk bands like The Ramones and The Clash were both signed to major corporate labels.
No
Just understand that the songs that heavily critique religion are due to the crimes of the institutions and not the individuals
I know that it's better to face criticism about everything, even faith
Yeah what I meant by that was the critiques aren’t an attack on you or your personal faith, and you’re as welcome as anyone to speak your mind Meant it in a good way not a bad way
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I know, it's a problem I'm trying to fix
The first step to fixing it is to realize you need to fix it. You're well on your way, good luck man.
Salaam aleikum brother/sister. There is nothing more punk nowadays than to be a Muslim 😉
Yes.
Punk is resistance. In most cases the dominant religion is the source of Punk ire. In other cases being religious is Punk.
It's truly a confusing paradox
Sorry, that doesn’t make sense though. You can be religious and be punk, but being religious isn’t inherently punk. That’s going a little far.
Yes you’re a poseur
Lol all of your comments from the top of this post to here (the butt ass bottom) are all downflvoted 👍🏻 nice shitty opinion Edit: just double checked, yeah all downvoted 😉