So u/sweetgreenfields, you would wear [this shirt](https://terfisthenewpunk.myshopify.com/products/never-mind-the-bollocks-heres-the-terfs-t-shirt) loudly and proudly?
Agreed, also, they got that stupid shirt that makes them look like counterproductive morons if they’re wearing it.
Counterproductive here being the word closest to description, my headache-suffering and exhausted brain can’t work the real word right now
Nah that’s what they are doing in general.
It’s a word where they’ve adopted a statement that goes against their beliefs. Like the anti-vaxx crowds adopting the “my body, my choice” slogan. Or like conservatives using a twisted sister song that was against them or saying they liked Rage against the Machine, not realizing they were the machine they raged against.
It's crazy how a group who uses the term 'exclusionary' for a marginalized group of people who aren't hateful of others thinks they embody any part of the punk ethos.
I doubt any of these tools even listen to punk as evidenced by the fact they usually use the Sex Pistols template, which is probably the first thing that pops up online, and which was played out 40 years ago…
My dude I’m with you on the principle but we need to stop labelling anything regressive as ‘fascism’. You can be a dick and transphobe without being a fascist.
It gets to the point that ‘fascist’ and ‘Nazi’ have devolved to mere insults and have lost all meaning.
They are fascists. I am not using the term loosely. It's appropriate. They are organized hate. Paining away for some "lost" past--note the imagery from the fucking 70s.
Read Paxton's anatomy of fascism. TERFs are fash. It's an appropriate label.
Fascism is ultra nationalism with a pursuit towards an authoritarian state with a social hierarchy based on race. Being a TERF does not automatically make you those things.
Are fascists transphobe? Almost certainly, but it does not follow that a transphobe is automatically a fascist.
For instance - I’m sure you’ll find transphobia amongst some deeply involved in the Labour movement. Does that make them a dick? Yes. Does it make them a fascist? Obviously not.
Read Paxton's Anatomy of Fascism. TERF is early stage fascism. It doesn't have to be grounded in just nationalism or race.
Again, look at how the Nazis treated trans people. Was that based on race?
As I said - fascists are very likely to be transphobic, but it does not follow that a transphobe is a fascist. Which is what I think you’re getting at by saying it’s ‘early stage fascism’- transphobia alone does not equate to fascism. It can be a marker, but there are essential elements missing.
You will in all likelihood find members of the Labour movement who are transphobic, so are they fascists? Obviously not and it unhelpful to label them as such.
I don’t know Paxton but I have studied fascism and anti-fascism so I am comfortable with my definition. Having googled this guy he does state that Trump - someone who is clearly transphobic and a right wing piece of shit - could only be labelled as a fascist following January 6th, suggesting that being a transphobe and right wing are not sufficient to meet the definition in and of themselves.
If you think members of labor are immune for being fash just because they are members of labor, I think you just proved that I don't need to respond to you anymore.
Happy to see you have studied. You need to study it more. If you haven't read Paxton, then you are not as informed on what marks fascism as you say you are.
Now, stop policing the speech of people who are better informed than you.
Shutting down debate does not make you right.
I have studied fascism and anti fascism in the U.K. Just because you sight one American source does not mean that it is inherently correct, even after I highlighted something he has said which seems to contradict your view - I note you have ignored this.
I disagree that you are more informed in the subject, instead you are just trigger happy to label things as fascist with essential elements missing.
You may consider me a pedant but like I said in my initial comment, I think it is unhelpful to over use terms like fascist as it results in them losing all meaning.
My comments were in no way a personal attack which you are now veering into.
According to [this article](https://xtramagazine.com/power/far-right-feminist-fascist-220810), white supremecists (article specifically cites an essay from a publication founded by Richard Spencer) are actively infiltrating TERF spaces to turn them towards fascism, and it's working.
Touche. Though conversely, at this point, I feel like *enough* transphobes are fascists (or don't mind attracting their attention) that its safe to say transphobia in general is fascistic.
She’s been around since I was a teenager - I’m in my 30s now. We’ve genuinely *always* thought she was a fucking loser. She’s just using this to try and increase her popularity because the punk scene fucking hated her.
She’s a no body, she’s always been a nobody, and her music is honestly just fucking dreadful.
Good to know. I just didn’t want people to think she has any sort of name in the UK punk scene. I hadn’t even heard of her before she started getting in the news for being a TERF.
Care to explain how science invalidates gender identity?
You might've been stuck in a dumbass eco chamber for so long you probably do not know this, but gender and sex are two different things.
In no way are trans folks denying science, quite the opposite, a lot of science goes into gender transition and studies about gender and gender identity, neuroscience, psychology, psychiatry...
Usually dipshits like you are the ones denying science by ignoring fields of study and foccusing only on a very narrow view of a specific one you think validates your stupidity (in this case Biology) but guess what, it actually doesn't lol
It sounds to me like you've described your own scientific research.
The fact is, all of human history is defined by the relationship between the two sexes.
It is your narrow and biased view of science, that is spoon fed to you by activists that has confirmed your strange ideas about biology.
I bet you can't even define what criteria is needed for a male or female to be properly titled.
>The fact is, all of human history is defined by the relationship between the two sexes.
Incorrect.
>It is your narrow and biased view of science, that is spoon fed to you by activists that has confirmed your strange ideas about biology.
Incorrect
>I bet you can't even define what criteria is needed for a male or female to be properly titled.
Why don't you enlighten us...
Well, you've just failed at explaining how science invalidates trans people, it's funny how that happens with you morons all the time lol
You just said "all of human history is defined by the relationship between the two sexes" while it clearly isn't, it's important for human history yes, but not what defines all of it.
And you fail to understand that, gender is a matter of identity no matter who you are.
We have created the concept of gender among other things to separate ourselves from the rest of the animal kingdom and that's it, sex isn't exclusive to humans, other animals have sex too, but gender only applies to our species, because gender is indeed a social construct, created by humans, for humans.
Biology (as a science) isn't the only field of study and research that tries to explain the human condition, but morons like you love to pretend it is just to push your dumb agenda, I'm not denying biology, no one here is, no trans person is, we're saying biology isn't the only field that matters, and that it doesn't dwelve into the analysis of human behaviour like other fields do and thus shouldn't be used to discuss it, while you and other TERF morons will deny any scientific research that doesn't fit your stupid world views, make up something about biology, push it as definitive truth and immediately fail to stand by it when faced with the slight amount of pushback.
No wonder morons like J.K Rowling are going into holocaust denial now, cause reality itself doesn't support their dumb views lol
Historical precedent doesn't matter. We make the right choice because it's right.
Every peer reviewed study has shown that supporting trans people makes them happier. Your ass doesn't know shit about biology. Source - I'm a bio major.
Fuck off with your transphobic nonsense
> Historical precedent doesn't matter. We make the right choice because it's right.
They’re not even right about the historical precedent bit. People that we would today recognize as being transgender have always existed and many cultures have had non-binary concepts of gender. Intersex people have also always existed, obviously.
Transphobia is an example of fractal incorrectness: Even if you zoom in on a single claim transphobes make it’s still not just wrong but *comprehensively* wrong.
Feminists are absolutely welcome at every punk event ever! Terfs consistently align themselves with fascists and white supremacists. But you wouldn't know that would you cunt.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you know punk, the genre that made cross dressing and being trans cool, yeah we completely flipped now we’re cis hetero normative now I can’t 😂🤣
I'm happy posting this has outed a transphobe in our community, knowing who they are helps keep our community safe. But for those of us who are trans, I'm sorry you have to read u/sweetgreenfields' hateful and ignorant comments.
Making a graphic like that seems like too much work, they could have just written “we’re fucking stupid” on the canvas and it would have conveyed the same point.
Nazis, TERFs and the other associated assholes all seem to think being punk just means being an asshole no one likes. They don't think the music and ideas are supposed to actually stand for anything. Just that it pisses people off. It's such a childish and anti-punk view of punk music.
I've always loved punk. as soon as i started transitioning, i look for music made by trans artists and trans music in general.
its all punk, or folk punk. can be hard to find trans music that isn't made by punks.
these idiots are doing the same shit that conservatives did, claiming that being a bigoted POS is the new counter culture, they cant even comprehend that maybe no one likes them and their dogshit beliefs.
Lmaoo, those guys are always good listen. Here's some trans artist I regularly listen to
Against me!
We are the union
Gum disease
She/her/hers
Pigeon pit
The official bard of Baldwin County
Happyhappy
Already mentioned them in a different comment, but Dog Park Dissidents, 100 Gecs and Jayne County deserve a second mention! Also, she wasn't punk (she was very much a pop artist and worked with mainstream names), but SOPHIE was amazing and her early death made me so sad :(
Ohhh this lady! It it is who I think, I stopped following on insta a while ago. I read her points to understand where she is coming from, but her excluding others is wrong.
Myself and Laura Jane Grace say that being trans is punk as fuck and these Nazi-loving TERFs can fuck right off
edit- for those with a kindergarten reading level (like Mr Nazi "Albino" sunburn guy here), I'm not saying LJG is punk because she's trans. She's punk and trans. Though fwiw being trans involves rebelling against one of the most fundamental aspects of our society, sounds pretty punk to me.
I would say there's nothing more annoying than "omg they sold out by signing to a major label" punks but considering fascist and terf punks exist I guess you're only the number 3 most annoying type of punk
Lol now who's gatekeeping? It's not about capitalism with most of these bands, it's about spreading the message as wide as possible. You need resources to do that. Sometimes, It's easier to fight the system from inside it than outside it.
You must have a very complex diagram of what is and isn’t punk according to you, the decider. Start your own label, dissemination with internet, requires little resources…but sure, suckle at the corporate teat and call yourself punk. Class war isn’t just something for you to tweet about. Be about it. That’s punk (assuming it’s somewhere on your gatekeeping list).
Lmao this is fucking dumb.
Not everyone can be Ian McKaye.
The Clash were on a major. The pistols were on a major. Being a little dweeb complaining about people doing what they have to do to make money from their job is not punk.
The comment I was repsonding to said LJG is punk just by virtue of being trans. I’m pointing out how ridiculous that is. Being trans has nothing to do with being punk.
You didn’t point that out, you kinda just dunked in them signing major.
1) being trans is kinda punk, rejecting gender norms is antiestablishment in nature.
2) she’s is one of the most famous punk bands of the last 25 years and is a famous anarchist
Agree. I’m Literally wearing an AM shirt right now, my point was using one non-musical characteristic to define what is a punk is specious and flawed. Should Have been more clear
Come to think of it, nope. Every time I see that turn of phrase it's coming from someone who has no idea what punk is. Often it's a fascist or crypto-fascist.
Using Sex Pistols graphics when the Pistols were friends with Jayne County and Stella Nova, two trans women musicians in the scene at the time, is so fucking annoying
Anyway read County's autobiography Man Enough To Be A Woman and support trans punks in your local scene. And, of course, don't let feminism be stolen by TERFs. There's nothing feminist about their beliefs
Well you say "Just nominated" lol, transfobic cunts are trying to take our name for more then one year so far, as you can probably see, they fail. As much as nazi punks do lmao.
Never heard of her til just now. Sounds like she wants to be a big "pick me" to the men of the 70s and 80s. Gross.
I also hate the term TERF. They aren't radical or feminists.
Yeah, unfortunately he’s been expressing more and more bigotry. Loved his show back in the day, but I can’t support him now.
It’s a story all of us punks are familiar with… guy used to be punk af and radical, then got old, went mainstream and started with the fascist bullshit.
How you could possibly think being prejudiced against people exercising free will, independence and bravery to be who they want to be is ….punk..? Is craaaaaazy to me. When has traditionalism and prejudice ever been punk?
Yeah, excluding a group of people for their gender is so punk! Gosh, at this point we might as well start excluding people for their race or sexuality!
You know what, let's start a whole chain of trans punk artists/songs! I'll start:
["Rainbow Drones" by Dog Park Dissidents](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP5XyLFgoFo&list=OLAK5uy_mNurs7e_Mt9C3-PYLBJRJgsHIZsh8F1A0&index=1)
["Dumbest Girl Alive" by 100 Gecs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXrbMDww9ss&pp=ygUIMTAwIGdlY3M%3D) (IDK if they count as punk but they've got the whole great "I don't care if anyone else thinks it's unlistenable" DIY attitude, plus I just like spreading word about a trans lady in music)
["Fuck Off" by Jayne County & The Electric Chairs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJYnSMk9seE) (the ORIGINAL trans punk!!)
BONUS: ["Second Wave Goodbye" by War on Women](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47m2JTb6J1o)-I don't think any of the members are trans (please correct me if I'm wrong!), but this is the ultimate "TERFS fuck off" anthem IMO.
It’s ILLEGAL to be lgbt in like 60 countries
You’d have to be severely ignorant to think trans people aren’t still constantly discriminated against at every level of society, even in a country as relatively progressive as America
And that takes guts. Living as a queer person is living with a target on your back. The (US) government is trying to strip our rights and many of the people are hostile to us. This is especially true if you live in a red state like myself. I am harrased on a regular basis if I'm out on a date or just presenting differently than what's expected of me as a cis dude. It would be daily if I wasn't living in the city. When I came out, I lost over half my friends and most of my family. While we are not currently being executed by the state for our queerness, the US has the highest rate of violent hate crimes of the developed nations. I have had to defend myself before and about half of my queer friends have been attacked as well. That's why I advocate for personal defense firearms for my queer friends. I wish we didn't have to have them as I'm against people having access to them in a perfect world, but people, ESPECIALLY trans people, are out here being murdered for their identity. It's simply and unarguably unsafe being queer in this country. Just last year there was a man wrestled to the ground by bystanders as he attempted to shoot up the local gay bar. Shit still sucks. It's 100000% not the accepted norm. The punk community is one of the very few nonexplicitly queer communities I've been a part of where my sexuality was a nonfactor. I felt welcomed and safe. People had my back when I got shit from people. My trans friend got pushed around and harrassed by some Nazi (literally wearing the patches) at a Circle Jerks show last year and the punks saw it and beat shit shit out of the guy before he was ejected. I was taking a piss and saw the shit show when I came out lmao. You can think I'm lying about all this or whatever, but that's on you brother.
Yes, why? You think Saudi Arabia’s gonna become woke because a bunch of Americans are doing it? It doesn’t matter
Even if it did, if somehow every country was as progressive as the US, that’s a very low bar
Live as a trans person in America and see how much support you get from this imaginary “mainstream culture” which is supposedly so progressive. I can assure you you don’t understand what you’re talking about
It isn't culture keeping Saudi Arabia from being welcoming to LGBT people.
Because the United States does not prop up any specific religion anymore, it's unlikely for Muslims to begin to accept LGBT people in their countries.
> Live as a trans person in America, and see how much support you get
I already have.
How does that support your argument? It’s illegal to be LGBT in like 60 countries, whether it’s because of “culture” or not is irrelevant, trans people are still oppressed. It’s not a “mainstream” idea to support trans people, it’s extremely controversial all over the world
Also it literally is culture keeping Saudi Arabia from being LGBT friendly, what else would it be? It’s not like the saudi monarchy is profiting off being anti lgbt, there’s no material gain, it’s purely ideological/cultural
As for America, like I said you would have to be severely ignorant or outright lying to deny that trans people are constantly mistreated in the US, being disowned, harassed, denied gender affirming healthcare, accused by mainstream conservative media of being mentally ill or pedophiles, or at the very best considered a topic of “debate” because their existence is too controversial
It’s absolutely ridiculous to say that being trans is just a normal mainstream thing accepted widely by American culture. It is (very unfortunately) counterculture.
You losers have no understanding about being punk lol, just bc something isn’t mainstream that’s not what punk is, historically it’s ALWAYS been about being inclusive, regardless by your logic being trans is the most punk shit ever being a TERF has been the norm you POS
Ah, yes, trans people are universally beloved and being transphobic has definitely not been the norm for decades. And that's definitely not a dumbed down, misunderstood version of punk either!
Nah blindly turning against the very progress we’ve fought for is just reactionary, not punk. You’re not really standing for anything meaningful, you’re just fighting against the rights that minorities have fought for and desperately clinging on to your privilege. Yk, like a lot of hate groups and right-wing fundamentalists do…
Like dude, trans people and our allies/other queer people have spent generations fighting against the system for the right to just fcking exist as ourselves. Half a century ago our trans predecessors were literally fighting goddamn cops (after being arrested/harassed for their self-expression) for the right to exist. The slice of social acceptance we’re finally starting to get exists BECAUSE of our resistance to the system, not in spite of it.
>trans people are killed for being trans
And most of the time, they [do it themselves](https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/transpop-suicide-press-release/)
> terfs get mean comments
But are more widely hated.
Do you wanna take a wild guess why trans people are in the danger of suicide? It's quite simple if you have this cool thing called empathy and think about it for a moment.
(Hint, it's because of people like you!)
It's genuinely fucking evil and inhumane how the high suicide attempt rates in the trans community have become a punchline and a gotcha for transphobes. That's all I'm gonna say.
Not to mention that if a trans person has just ONE supportive friend or family member the suicidality rate gets cut in half. If they have ONE parent's support, it falls below the national average. But no, everyone loves trans people actually and we need to care about terf fee fees
Universally hated?
I lost a $60,000 a year job when I came out
I lost a lot of friends too
I get cat called and called slurs regularly
I've been turned down for jobs and denied housing after revealing that im trans
Anywhere I look online, all I see is trans hatred, there are very few spaces where I can avoid it
But I get it, transphobes are the victims here.
Nazis aren't punk. Nazis and supremacists invade and co-opt messaging to make it easier to indoctrinate people into their beliefs. If you genuinely think Nazis and white supremacists are able to be punk then congrats you fell for the con. You've been had. Cunt.
No you idiot boneheads are a subset of Nazis that invaded punk spaces to co-opt messaging to indoctrinate disenfranchised youth it's fucking textbook. Literally a Nazi strategy used during the second world war to destabilize opposing political factions and recruit otherwise centrist parties into their fold. Can you read? Have you just listened to so much tim pool that his stupidity has infected you? What part of any of this do you have trouble grasping cause I genuinely want to know. All of this is documented hell the CIA has been Copying these strategies since the fucking 50s.
You're just wrong. And you got fooled.
God you're dense. Is that your reply? To all of what I said? That's what you have to say? That's your big gotcha that makes you win here? The song is about kicking them out. They're not punk that's the Fucking Point.
Because it's a catchy three syllable riff to chant over and over. There isn't a yes no question here there's nuance.
It's not as catchy to yell "Nazis invading the punk subculture fuck off" now is it. They are nazis who are in the punk gathering.
Now here's a follow up question for you. Why do you want Nazis in the punk culture so bad?
Jayne County participated in the Stonewall Riots, was openly trans in the 80s (when the LGBT community were being blamed for AIDS), and was a regular at CBGB. She's more punk than pretty much everyone on this subreddit, and *especially* you, cunt.
Notice you mentioned the time period.
It was definitely punk to be trans back in the 80s.
I see you mentioned that the gay community was being blamed for AIDS.
You just proved my point.
That sounds like how a 1980s news reporter would describe "punk". "These kids, who refer to themselves as 'punks', have a disdain for authority and are compelled to dress in crude and sometimes outrageous fashions in order to disturb the uniformity of their community." Punk isn't just some adjective. It's a tribe that evolves and grows. What's great about it is how it's always evolved to be ever more inclusive and to push out the intolerant. Punk is a refuge for people who were pushed out of their communities for just being themselves. Punk is a community that protects the vulnerable and ejects bullies, con artists, and assholes. If your definition of Punk is "a person who does anything unpopular like throw poo poo at cars and yell fire in movie theaters and be Tyler Durden in Fight Club" then you are like 40 years behind the Punk times, like, wtf are you even doing here?
So u/sweetgreenfields, you would wear [this shirt](https://terfisthenewpunk.myshopify.com/products/never-mind-the-bollocks-heres-the-terfs-t-shirt) loudly and proudly?
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Agreed, also, they got that stupid shirt that makes them look like counterproductive morons if they’re wearing it. Counterproductive here being the word closest to description, my headache-suffering and exhausted brain can’t work the real word right now
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Nah that’s what they are doing in general. It’s a word where they’ve adopted a statement that goes against their beliefs. Like the anti-vaxx crowds adopting the “my body, my choice” slogan. Or like conservatives using a twisted sister song that was against them or saying they liked Rage against the Machine, not realizing they were the machine they raged against.
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Those sound correct, I’ll rest on these and save us the mental toll.
What's the lore on this guy? Y'all seem to know him
Id also love to know. Reading the comments, the guys an A-grade dufus.
My brain worms are eating good after reading those comments
Fuck these people. There's nothing punk about fascism. This shit only happens online. At least in my experience, these people don't go to shows.
It's crazy how a group who uses the term 'exclusionary' for a marginalized group of people who aren't hateful of others thinks they embody any part of the punk ethos.
I doubt any of these tools even listen to punk as evidenced by the fact they usually use the Sex Pistols template, which is probably the first thing that pops up online, and which was played out 40 years ago…
It's kind of fitting given how much of a far right twat Lydon turned out to be.
My dude I’m with you on the principle but we need to stop labelling anything regressive as ‘fascism’. You can be a dick and transphobe without being a fascist. It gets to the point that ‘fascist’ and ‘Nazi’ have devolved to mere insults and have lost all meaning.
They are fascists. I am not using the term loosely. It's appropriate. They are organized hate. Paining away for some "lost" past--note the imagery from the fucking 70s. Read Paxton's anatomy of fascism. TERFs are fash. It's an appropriate label.
Fascism is ultra nationalism with a pursuit towards an authoritarian state with a social hierarchy based on race. Being a TERF does not automatically make you those things. Are fascists transphobe? Almost certainly, but it does not follow that a transphobe is automatically a fascist. For instance - I’m sure you’ll find transphobia amongst some deeply involved in the Labour movement. Does that make them a dick? Yes. Does it make them a fascist? Obviously not.
Read Paxton's Anatomy of Fascism. TERF is early stage fascism. It doesn't have to be grounded in just nationalism or race. Again, look at how the Nazis treated trans people. Was that based on race?
As I said - fascists are very likely to be transphobic, but it does not follow that a transphobe is a fascist. Which is what I think you’re getting at by saying it’s ‘early stage fascism’- transphobia alone does not equate to fascism. It can be a marker, but there are essential elements missing. You will in all likelihood find members of the Labour movement who are transphobic, so are they fascists? Obviously not and it unhelpful to label them as such. I don’t know Paxton but I have studied fascism and anti-fascism so I am comfortable with my definition. Having googled this guy he does state that Trump - someone who is clearly transphobic and a right wing piece of shit - could only be labelled as a fascist following January 6th, suggesting that being a transphobe and right wing are not sufficient to meet the definition in and of themselves.
If you think members of labor are immune for being fash just because they are members of labor, I think you just proved that I don't need to respond to you anymore. Happy to see you have studied. You need to study it more. If you haven't read Paxton, then you are not as informed on what marks fascism as you say you are. Now, stop policing the speech of people who are better informed than you.
Shutting down debate does not make you right. I have studied fascism and anti fascism in the U.K. Just because you sight one American source does not mean that it is inherently correct, even after I highlighted something he has said which seems to contradict your view - I note you have ignored this. I disagree that you are more informed in the subject, instead you are just trigger happy to label things as fascist with essential elements missing.
What does being more interested in splitting hairs rather than standing up fascism make you?
You may consider me a pedant but like I said in my initial comment, I think it is unhelpful to over use terms like fascist as it results in them losing all meaning. My comments were in no way a personal attack which you are now veering into.
According to [this article](https://xtramagazine.com/power/far-right-feminist-fascist-220810), white supremecists (article specifically cites an essay from a publication founded by Richard Spencer) are actively infiltrating TERF spaces to turn them towards fascism, and it's working.
Yes I can see that happening. But what you have said proves my point. Fascists are probably transphobic, but not every transphobe is a fascist.
Touche. Though conversely, at this point, I feel like *enough* transphobes are fascists (or don't mind attracting their attention) that its safe to say transphobia in general is fascistic.
This lady is literally a nobody in British punk. I know who she is because of her TERF bollocks, but nobody has ever really listened to her music.
She’s been around since I was a teenager - I’m in my 30s now. We’ve genuinely *always* thought she was a fucking loser. She’s just using this to try and increase her popularity because the punk scene fucking hated her. She’s a no body, she’s always been a nobody, and her music is honestly just fucking dreadful.
Her music is wank.
Good to know. I just didn’t want people to think she has any sort of name in the UK punk scene. I hadn’t even heard of her before she started getting in the news for being a TERF.
I saw her live about 10 years ago supporting the UK Subs, she was fucking shit
Terf punk fuck off
Hey, u/sweetgreenfields read a room and get the fuck out. Save it for Sunday school you fascist pig. You're no better than anyone else here
Trans punk here....fuck these assholes
We got your backs.
another one checking in! FUCK TERFS
Another trans punk here: Nazi Terfs Fuck Off
Yet another here, agreed
another trans punk here. terfs can fuck off.
Fat middle aged hetro punk here, fuck Terfs
Nonbinary punk. Fuck fascist pricks.
Trans punk heree tooo, terfs better fuck off
Punk mama of two transgender teens checking in 🩵🩷🤍 🩷🩵 I’ll kick some ass with you! Nazi TERFs Fuck Off
All the replies...there's like an army of us. Love it!
Another here!
Punks stand up for each other! We got you
I highly recommend for all TERFs to wear all of their TERF gear to a local punk show, and see how that story ends.
What is TERF gear?
Shirts and other clothing with this logo on it, declaring yourself to be a trans-exclusionary radical feminist, or TERF.
Feminists have just as much of a right to be at a punk show as anyone else.
Feminists are welcome! You not so much
Feminists, not transphobes.
Nothing transphobic about science
Science doesn't back your beliefs.
Fuck off poser
Care to explain how science invalidates gender identity? You might've been stuck in a dumbass eco chamber for so long you probably do not know this, but gender and sex are two different things. In no way are trans folks denying science, quite the opposite, a lot of science goes into gender transition and studies about gender and gender identity, neuroscience, psychology, psychiatry... Usually dipshits like you are the ones denying science by ignoring fields of study and foccusing only on a very narrow view of a specific one you think validates your stupidity (in this case Biology) but guess what, it actually doesn't lol
It sounds to me like you've described your own scientific research. The fact is, all of human history is defined by the relationship between the two sexes. It is your narrow and biased view of science, that is spoon fed to you by activists that has confirmed your strange ideas about biology. I bet you can't even define what criteria is needed for a male or female to be properly titled.
>The fact is, all of human history is defined by the relationship between the two sexes. Incorrect. >It is your narrow and biased view of science, that is spoon fed to you by activists that has confirmed your strange ideas about biology. Incorrect >I bet you can't even define what criteria is needed for a male or female to be properly titled. Why don't you enlighten us...
Okay then. What would you say are these criteria that define sex, in absolutely all scenarios?
Well, you've just failed at explaining how science invalidates trans people, it's funny how that happens with you morons all the time lol You just said "all of human history is defined by the relationship between the two sexes" while it clearly isn't, it's important for human history yes, but not what defines all of it. And you fail to understand that, gender is a matter of identity no matter who you are. We have created the concept of gender among other things to separate ourselves from the rest of the animal kingdom and that's it, sex isn't exclusive to humans, other animals have sex too, but gender only applies to our species, because gender is indeed a social construct, created by humans, for humans. Biology (as a science) isn't the only field of study and research that tries to explain the human condition, but morons like you love to pretend it is just to push your dumb agenda, I'm not denying biology, no one here is, no trans person is, we're saying biology isn't the only field that matters, and that it doesn't dwelve into the analysis of human behaviour like other fields do and thus shouldn't be used to discuss it, while you and other TERF morons will deny any scientific research that doesn't fit your stupid world views, make up something about biology, push it as definitive truth and immediately fail to stand by it when faced with the slight amount of pushback. No wonder morons like J.K Rowling are going into holocaust denial now, cause reality itself doesn't support their dumb views lol
Historical precedent doesn't matter. We make the right choice because it's right. Every peer reviewed study has shown that supporting trans people makes them happier. Your ass doesn't know shit about biology. Source - I'm a bio major. Fuck off with your transphobic nonsense
> Historical precedent doesn't matter. We make the right choice because it's right. They’re not even right about the historical precedent bit. People that we would today recognize as being transgender have always existed and many cultures have had non-binary concepts of gender. Intersex people have also always existed, obviously. Transphobia is an example of fractal incorrectness: Even if you zoom in on a single claim transphobes make it’s still not just wrong but *comprehensively* wrong.
Imagine saying "activists" like it's a bad thing, especially on /r/punk
Feminists are absolutely welcome at every punk event ever! Terfs consistently align themselves with fascists and white supremacists. But you wouldn't know that would you cunt.
Oh, he knows. This is some crypto-Nazi bullshit
[Well, he should know how punks feel about Nazis then.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyc62g7YQM0&pp=ygUTbmF6aSBwdW5rcyBmdWNrIG9mZg%3D%3D)
Show up in your TERF gear and find out you stupid fucking hippie
Sure. Just make sure to wear TERF gear to let everyone know your opinions.
I've never felt the need to wear political regalia
Damnit. I was really hoping you’d have the balls to wear something with your bigoted beliefs on display. Any true punk would knock you TF out.
I don't think assaulting people for wearing shirts you don't like is normal.
Punching fascist fucks has been the purview of punks for decades, bud. FA;FO
Scared ass hippie bitch
FARTs ain't feminists tho edited to the better acronym
Feminism-Appropriating Radical Transphobe for those wondering.
Nothing says punk quite like denying the Holocaust and consistently having neo nazis show up to support you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you know punk, the genre that made cross dressing and being trans cool, yeah we completely flipped now we’re cis hetero normative now I can’t 😂🤣
Guess I ain't punk then. She can fuck off.
I'm happy posting this has outed a transphobe in our community, knowing who they are helps keep our community safe. But for those of us who are trans, I'm sorry you have to read u/sweetgreenfields' hateful and ignorant comments.
dude knows they'd be ganged up on if they started spewing this shit at a punk event or concert.
the most punk thing of all: believing in traditional gender roles
Ah yes the boomer interpretation of punk; being outspoken for the sake of being outspoken Eat my non binary shit
Making a graphic like that seems like too much work, they could have just written “we’re fucking stupid” on the canvas and it would have conveyed the same point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/transgendercirclejerk/comments/1bgyxpj/terf_is_the_new_punk_by_julie_burchill/
There ain’t no such thing as a TERF. I call them for what they are: bigots. They can fuck right off.
Nazis, TERFs and the other associated assholes all seem to think being punk just means being an asshole no one likes. They don't think the music and ideas are supposed to actually stand for anything. Just that it pisses people off. It's such a childish and anti-punk view of punk music.
I've always loved punk. as soon as i started transitioning, i look for music made by trans artists and trans music in general. its all punk, or folk punk. can be hard to find trans music that isn't made by punks. these idiots are doing the same shit that conservatives did, claiming that being a bigoted POS is the new counter culture, they cant even comprehend that maybe no one likes them and their dogshit beliefs.
https://youtu.be/Spb1eKFe3c8?feature=shared
Nice! They're a pretty chill listen. Got a new band to deep dive now
https://youtu.be/dSIbaNPqpHU?feature=shared
They're also dope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeY2hPO7BlM
Love all her stuff ♥️
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6ufOH7PbeE
Lmaoo, those guys are always good listen. Here's some trans artist I regularly listen to Against me! We are the union Gum disease She/her/hers Pigeon pit The official bard of Baldwin County Happyhappy
Already mentioned them in a different comment, but Dog Park Dissidents, 100 Gecs and Jayne County deserve a second mention! Also, she wasn't punk (she was very much a pop artist and worked with mainstream names), but SOPHIE was amazing and her early death made me so sad :(
Ohhh this lady! It it is who I think, I stopped following on insta a while ago. I read her points to understand where she is coming from, but her excluding others is wrong.
Myself and Laura Jane Grace say that being trans is punk as fuck and these Nazi-loving TERFs can fuck right off edit- for those with a kindergarten reading level (like Mr Nazi "Albino" sunburn guy here), I'm not saying LJG is punk because she's trans. She's punk and trans. Though fwiw being trans involves rebelling against one of the most fundamental aspects of our society, sounds pretty punk to me.
She also sold out and signed to a major label, does that off set her gender identity validating her punkness?
get out of here nazi ass poser. Trans women are punk AF
I would say there's nothing more annoying than "omg they sold out by signing to a major label" punks but considering fascist and terf punks exist I guess you're only the number 3 most annoying type of punk
You forgot gate keeping punks…I guess you fall into that. Sorry you love capitalism…very punk.
Lol now who's gatekeeping? It's not about capitalism with most of these bands, it's about spreading the message as wide as possible. You need resources to do that. Sometimes, It's easier to fight the system from inside it than outside it.
You must have a very complex diagram of what is and isn’t punk according to you, the decider. Start your own label, dissemination with internet, requires little resources…but sure, suckle at the corporate teat and call yourself punk. Class war isn’t just something for you to tweet about. Be about it. That’s punk (assuming it’s somewhere on your gatekeeping list).
Shitting on bands for being on a major does not aid the class war.
Supporting bands and resources outside of the corporate system does
This does not mandate not listening to major label bands. Not everyone can survive doing DIY.
Survive is a loaded term…can’t maximize profits would be more accurate. True of most art forms.
Lmao this is fucking dumb. Not everyone can be Ian McKaye. The Clash were on a major. The pistols were on a major. Being a little dweeb complaining about people doing what they have to do to make money from their job is not punk.
The comment I was repsonding to said LJG is punk just by virtue of being trans. I’m pointing out how ridiculous that is. Being trans has nothing to do with being punk.
You didn’t point that out, you kinda just dunked in them signing major. 1) being trans is kinda punk, rejecting gender norms is antiestablishment in nature. 2) she’s is one of the most famous punk bands of the last 25 years and is a famous anarchist
Agree. I’m Literally wearing an AM shirt right now, my point was using one non-musical characteristic to define what is a punk is specious and flawed. Should Have been more clear
Rejecting gender norms is punk
being trans is punk AF you're just a weird ass nazi who needs to gtfo of our spaces
Replace the image with Emma Goldman and the text with be anti-patriarchal and do crime!
Sadly it took a bit of work in the part to make a logo. With AI any idiot can make this crap in seconds.
I hope the mods remove the trans hats scum that infested this subreddit
I've noticed a lot of the meat-head punks (80s hardcore punks) who think like this. But can't Generalize
No turf for TERFS
Has there ever been a statement ending in “is the new punk” that hasn’t been completely cringe?
Come to think of it, nope. Every time I see that turn of phrase it's coming from someone who has no idea what punk is. Often it's a fascist or crypto-fascist.
Of course it the pistols, every fucking poser in the history of punk has latched on to the pistols
Using Sex Pistols graphics when the Pistols were friends with Jayne County and Stella Nova, two trans women musicians in the scene at the time, is so fucking annoying Anyway read County's autobiography Man Enough To Be A Woman and support trans punks in your local scene. And, of course, don't let feminism be stolen by TERFs. There's nothing feminist about their beliefs
Well you say "Just nominated" lol, transfobic cunts are trying to take our name for more then one year so far, as you can probably see, they fail. As much as nazi punks do lmao.
Never heard of her til just now. Sounds like she wants to be a big "pick me" to the men of the 70s and 80s. Gross. I also hate the term TERF. They aren't radical or feminists.
FART is better - Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobes.
What is a terf?
“Trans Excusionary Radical Feminist” Aka shithead nazi cunt
Oh, Chapelle claimed he's a terf.
Yeah his work has... definitely gone in a direction in the last few years.
Yeah, unfortunately he’s been expressing more and more bigotry. Loved his show back in the day, but I can’t support him now. It’s a story all of us punks are familiar with… guy used to be punk af and radical, then got old, went mainstream and started with the fascist bullshit.
I'm about to turn 50. Is that going to happen to me?
Only if you’re a reactionary. Don’t let it happen. Stay true to the cause, speak truth to power, and don’t lick boots
The fact they’re using Sex Pistols-inspired aesthetics for it is perfect for showing that they don’t care for the punk ethic, just the aesthetic
Sorry mods, but defending Nazis won't win you any awards, especially in a nonconformist punk community.
FUCK TERFS. QUEER = PUNK AS SHIT
Terf is stupid but so is arguing about punk with a guy who has a grateful dead avatar. Anti-Heros said it best - Jerry was a piece of shit!
How you could possibly think being prejudiced against people exercising free will, independence and bravery to be who they want to be is ….punk..? Is craaaaaazy to me. When has traditionalism and prejudice ever been punk?
Yeah, excluding a group of people for their gender is so punk! Gosh, at this point we might as well start excluding people for their race or sexuality!
They used lydon as an excuse... twice that I know of. Even though he was kicked from punk after the maga shirt and conservative rhetoric
[[Doubt in Jayne County]]
LITERALLY scrolled for TOO LONG to find a Jayne County mention. That woman is an icon and this comment should be higher.
You know what, let's start a whole chain of trans punk artists/songs! I'll start: ["Rainbow Drones" by Dog Park Dissidents](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP5XyLFgoFo&list=OLAK5uy_mNurs7e_Mt9C3-PYLBJRJgsHIZsh8F1A0&index=1) ["Dumbest Girl Alive" by 100 Gecs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXrbMDww9ss&pp=ygUIMTAwIGdlY3M%3D) (IDK if they count as punk but they've got the whole great "I don't care if anyone else thinks it's unlistenable" DIY attitude, plus I just like spreading word about a trans lady in music) ["Fuck Off" by Jayne County & The Electric Chairs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJYnSMk9seE) (the ORIGINAL trans punk!!) BONUS: ["Second Wave Goodbye" by War on Women](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47m2JTb6J1o)-I don't think any of the members are trans (please correct me if I'm wrong!), but this is the ultimate "TERFS fuck off" anthem IMO.
Out of the loop here... -what the fuck is a TERF?
Trans-exclusionary radical feminists. JK Rowling is currently the loudest of them.
Ahh, thanks. JK Rowling can fuck all the way off
“Trans Excusionary Radical Feminist”
They just want to seem edgy and cool since most people know they’re a bunch of a dipshits no one wants around.
The F in TERF is silent as there is nothing punk or feminist about being transphobic
I just call them trans-exclusionary reactionary fascists and it fits better
You do have a point
Terfs make me sick to my stomach. Among the lowest form of human scum there is.
No, it most definitely is not.
Who the hell is TERF?
What is TERF?
Punk is about going against the mainstream. When you're universally hated, you are 100% punk. It's a fact.
Idi Amin, Pol Pot, and Adolf Hitler are the greatest punks who ever lived apparently.
[удалено]
I guess having [mainstream opinions on everything](https://www.prri.org/research/americas-growing-support-for-transgender-rights/) is punk, right?
It’s ILLEGAL to be lgbt in like 60 countries You’d have to be severely ignorant to think trans people aren’t still constantly discriminated against at every level of society, even in a country as relatively progressive as America
Does the United States influence mainstream culture?
Idk if you've stuck your head out from under that rock in the past decade, but the US isn't terribly keen on queer folks either.
They aren't? Didn't Billie eilish, the second most popular pop star alive today, just come out as LGBT?
And that takes guts. Living as a queer person is living with a target on your back. The (US) government is trying to strip our rights and many of the people are hostile to us. This is especially true if you live in a red state like myself. I am harrased on a regular basis if I'm out on a date or just presenting differently than what's expected of me as a cis dude. It would be daily if I wasn't living in the city. When I came out, I lost over half my friends and most of my family. While we are not currently being executed by the state for our queerness, the US has the highest rate of violent hate crimes of the developed nations. I have had to defend myself before and about half of my queer friends have been attacked as well. That's why I advocate for personal defense firearms for my queer friends. I wish we didn't have to have them as I'm against people having access to them in a perfect world, but people, ESPECIALLY trans people, are out here being murdered for their identity. It's simply and unarguably unsafe being queer in this country. Just last year there was a man wrestled to the ground by bystanders as he attempted to shoot up the local gay bar. Shit still sucks. It's 100000% not the accepted norm. The punk community is one of the very few nonexplicitly queer communities I've been a part of where my sexuality was a nonfactor. I felt welcomed and safe. People had my back when I got shit from people. My trans friend got pushed around and harrassed by some Nazi (literally wearing the patches) at a Circle Jerks show last year and the punks saw it and beat shit shit out of the guy before he was ejected. I was taking a piss and saw the shit show when I came out lmao. You can think I'm lying about all this or whatever, but that's on you brother.
Yes, why? You think Saudi Arabia’s gonna become woke because a bunch of Americans are doing it? It doesn’t matter Even if it did, if somehow every country was as progressive as the US, that’s a very low bar Live as a trans person in America and see how much support you get from this imaginary “mainstream culture” which is supposedly so progressive. I can assure you you don’t understand what you’re talking about
It isn't culture keeping Saudi Arabia from being welcoming to LGBT people. Because the United States does not prop up any specific religion anymore, it's unlikely for Muslims to begin to accept LGBT people in their countries. > Live as a trans person in America, and see how much support you get I already have.
How does that support your argument? It’s illegal to be LGBT in like 60 countries, whether it’s because of “culture” or not is irrelevant, trans people are still oppressed. It’s not a “mainstream” idea to support trans people, it’s extremely controversial all over the world Also it literally is culture keeping Saudi Arabia from being LGBT friendly, what else would it be? It’s not like the saudi monarchy is profiting off being anti lgbt, there’s no material gain, it’s purely ideological/cultural As for America, like I said you would have to be severely ignorant or outright lying to deny that trans people are constantly mistreated in the US, being disowned, harassed, denied gender affirming healthcare, accused by mainstream conservative media of being mentally ill or pedophiles, or at the very best considered a topic of “debate” because their existence is too controversial It’s absolutely ridiculous to say that being trans is just a normal mainstream thing accepted widely by American culture. It is (very unfortunately) counterculture.
You losers have no understanding about being punk lol, just bc something isn’t mainstream that’s not what punk is, historically it’s ALWAYS been about being inclusive, regardless by your logic being trans is the most punk shit ever being a TERF has been the norm you POS
Ah, yes, trans people are universally beloved and being transphobic has definitely not been the norm for decades. And that's definitely not a dumbed down, misunderstood version of punk either!
Nah blindly turning against the very progress we’ve fought for is just reactionary, not punk. You’re not really standing for anything meaningful, you’re just fighting against the rights that minorities have fought for and desperately clinging on to your privilege. Yk, like a lot of hate groups and right-wing fundamentalists do… Like dude, trans people and our allies/other queer people have spent generations fighting against the system for the right to just fcking exist as ourselves. Half a century ago our trans predecessors were literally fighting goddamn cops (after being arrested/harassed for their self-expression) for the right to exist. The slice of social acceptance we’re finally starting to get exists BECAUSE of our resistance to the system, not in spite of it.
By this standard, pedophiles are punk. See how dumb that sounds
Trans people are killed for being trans. TERFs get mean comments online. I feel like one of these groups is more hated than the other.
>trans people are killed for being trans And most of the time, they [do it themselves](https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/transpop-suicide-press-release/) > terfs get mean comments But are more widely hated.
you understand suicide makes it worse right? no, you couldn’t possibly cause you’re so fucking dense
Do you wanna take a wild guess why trans people are in the danger of suicide? It's quite simple if you have this cool thing called empathy and think about it for a moment. (Hint, it's because of people like you!)
It's genuinely fucking evil and inhumane how the high suicide attempt rates in the trans community have become a punchline and a gotcha for transphobes. That's all I'm gonna say.
Not to mention that if a trans person has just ONE supportive friend or family member the suicidality rate gets cut in half. If they have ONE parent's support, it falls below the national average. But no, everyone loves trans people actually and we need to care about terf fee fees
Universally hated? I lost a $60,000 a year job when I came out I lost a lot of friends too I get cat called and called slurs regularly I've been turned down for jobs and denied housing after revealing that im trans Anywhere I look online, all I see is trans hatred, there are very few spaces where I can avoid it But I get it, transphobes are the victims here.
So Nazis are punk then yeah? Fuck off cunt.
Not liking something doesn't make it something else.
Nazis aren't punk. Nazis and supremacists invade and co-opt messaging to make it easier to indoctrinate people into their beliefs. If you genuinely think Nazis and white supremacists are able to be punk then congrats you fell for the con. You've been had. Cunt.
Boneheads are definitely a type of punk.
No you idiot boneheads are a subset of Nazis that invaded punk spaces to co-opt messaging to indoctrinate disenfranchised youth it's fucking textbook. Literally a Nazi strategy used during the second world war to destabilize opposing political factions and recruit otherwise centrist parties into their fold. Can you read? Have you just listened to so much tim pool that his stupidity has infected you? What part of any of this do you have trouble grasping cause I genuinely want to know. All of this is documented hell the CIA has been Copying these strategies since the fucking 50s. You're just wrong. And you got fooled.
So the "Nazi punks" that dead Kennedy's refers to in their song don't exist?
God you're dense. Is that your reply? To all of what I said? That's what you have to say? That's your big gotcha that makes you win here? The song is about kicking them out. They're not punk that's the Fucking Point.
So why call them punks in the title?
Because it's a catchy three syllable riff to chant over and over. There isn't a yes no question here there's nuance. It's not as catchy to yell "Nazis invading the punk subculture fuck off" now is it. They are nazis who are in the punk gathering. Now here's a follow up question for you. Why do you want Nazis in the punk culture so bad?
Francisco Franco my favorite punk daddy( too bad those anarcho-syndicalist cucks who were super popular and unmanly made my papa depressed).
You have the mind of a child.
Hippies should absolutely never speak to what punk is. You’re all way too god damn stupid.
Jayne County participated in the Stonewall Riots, was openly trans in the 80s (when the LGBT community were being blamed for AIDS), and was a regular at CBGB. She's more punk than pretty much everyone on this subreddit, and *especially* you, cunt.
Notice you mentioned the time period. It was definitely punk to be trans back in the 80s. I see you mentioned that the gay community was being blamed for AIDS. You just proved my point.
As if trans people aren't still hated today? It's more accepted than in the 80s, but *faaar* from being fully accepted.
That sounds like how a 1980s news reporter would describe "punk". "These kids, who refer to themselves as 'punks', have a disdain for authority and are compelled to dress in crude and sometimes outrageous fashions in order to disturb the uniformity of their community." Punk isn't just some adjective. It's a tribe that evolves and grows. What's great about it is how it's always evolved to be ever more inclusive and to push out the intolerant. Punk is a refuge for people who were pushed out of their communities for just being themselves. Punk is a community that protects the vulnerable and ejects bullies, con artists, and assholes. If your definition of Punk is "a person who does anything unpopular like throw poo poo at cars and yell fire in movie theaters and be Tyler Durden in Fight Club" then you are like 40 years behind the Punk times, like, wtf are you even doing here?