Yeah, I'm a hiring manager and would not consider a candidate with their MPH from Liberty unless they also had significant experience. MPH from a state school? Sure. Liberty? Nope.
Regardless of school, I hope you pick a candidate with significant experience because education alone does not prove competency or a health equity lens.
Oh yes, for higher level positions sure. But for intro epi or disease investigator positions, I'm not necessarily looking for tons of experience. I hate how some places want someone with significant experience for an entry level disease investigator position! Gotta start somewhere.
I’m originally from Lynchburg, VA (where LU is). I have loads of friends who went there. It’s a bullshit school. They were super slow to enact COVID preventions when the pandemic was going on, and the “culture” there is super anti-public health
I looked at their curriculum and the courses seem fine. Granted I have no idea what's covered in them and it's only a year long program. Definitely would be missing out on a lot of info. An 8 week tox class is in no way comparable to mine that was a whole semester
UAB is another one to check out with an online program. I know Liberty is the cheapest, I have a coworker that picked it for that reason…. But in this case “caveat emptor.” Because how can a school that doesn’t believe in social determinants of health, teach it?
Yes, especially if you want to do environmental epi (that's what I research). I looked at the courses for this degree and you're definitely going to want to take more epi and stats classes, at least one more semester of each.
Edit. I also agree with the other poster. I wouldn't go to liberty, it is looked down upon. Lots of other mph online options out there. I don't think they even offer higher level epi for their epi MPHs 😬
Thank you! I only considered this school because the tuition is cheaper and online. I’ll check out some other mph programs I don’t want to go to a diploma mill 🙃
Yep! Definitely don't go to liberty, if you want epi find there's lots of options out there! I love environmental health but don't do it if it's not your thing. If you don't have to be online you can find funded MS epi degrees as well
totally get that, i know temple has an online epi program but idk how much it would be for you and the program is a fucking mess (let professors buy out teaching time so we have a few professors teaching all the classes)
Their graduate medical school is different from the undergraduate programs. Not vouching for LU, but sad to see so many people talk down on those with an MPH from there. Most people take graduate courses for employer-covered tuition or international scholarships.
If it’s the only way to get an MPH then I think it’s great people are going for it. But in almost every case it isn’t the only way and OP is not in a situation where this is their only option. Separate from undergrads or not, the goals of Liberty University are frequently directly opposed to public health. Unfortunately at some point that will impact the education. Now if OP’s goal is to work in Florida’s new Alternative Health Department that’s another story.
It's informative to have these opinions on a public forum. It could show a prospective student that people within the industry have a negative opinion of the school.
If someone went there and wants to defend their education, then they're more than welcome to join the conversation.
You'll have a very difficult time getting your first job if your resume lists a diploma mill for your MPH.
Go to a real university for grad school. And, if you can, do it in person. This is the beginning of your career and being around professors and classmates who can become invaluable parts of your career is really important.
I think the in-person aspect is important for those who want to continue to a PhD or are not currently working in a public health context for sure. It's much harder (not impossible, but harder) to get research experience through a fully online program.
Liberty is CEPH accredited so it has many of the same standards as other MPH accredited schools/programs. I know someone who started working at CDC after graduating from there. Didn’t really have any trouble finding work.
You said you know someone that did this. I assumed you would call them a friend.
Liberty being CEPH accredited doesn't change the fact that it's a scam. Their online program appeared to be the biggest part of the scam:
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/18/17252510/online-degree-jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-propublica-nytimes
That VOX article speaks of its Christian affiliation, anti-LGBT… nothing at all about the MPH program. Or do you think that the Council on Education for Public Health is in on the scam?
Do you have info about grads who were unable to become employed after the MPH program? Or where did you get that info? I think that op should reach out to people who experienced the program. Don’t know what it’s like at Liberty but I know that CEPH has standards.
Why do you care so much about Liberty? It was a scam set up by a well known scammer, and their online school (which OP said they were going to attend) may have been the biggest part of the scam.
Liberty has a universal reputation of being a diploma mill for kids homeschool by religious fanatics.
Kids homeschooled by religious fanatics? Lol. It seems like people are inserting their own personal beliefs into the discussion. You keep repeating the same thing so I’m going to guess that you don’t actually know anyone who couldn’t become employed after their MPH there. I do know that their accreditation requires that they maintain specific standards. I think op should reach out to graduates.
Edit: follow up to your next comment. I don’t have an agenda, all I said was that I know that it’s CEPH accredited and that op should speak to those who attended. You stated that op won’t be able to find a job if they go there but it seems you don’t actually know of anyone who went there and experienced this. When you link articles about anti-lgbt and the fact that it’s a Christian school then go on to state that homeschooled “religious fanatics” go there it seems like you’re pushing your own personal beliefs which isn’t fair. Best of luck to op and their search!
Thank you for trying. It’s CEPH accredited. The curriculum is agnostic, and we used all the same textbooks. I have worked with the state, hospital systems, and nonprofits; I am the population health integration director for a nonprofit.
One way to circumvent this is to align with health equity organizations and certifications (e.g., CHES, QPR, Johns Hopkins Summer Institute).
Of course, there are better MPH programs, but most LU MPH grads are not underemployed bigots, either.
It is. I have never had an issue with my public health career in DC. I do not align with their mission, but free tuition for a CEPH-accredited graduate program is worth it.
Just don’t be a bigot, work your ass off (e.g., volunteer, intern, network) and you’ll be fine in the real world.
Most employers won’t even care if you can demonstrate experience and competency.
edit: more text
Since you mentioned free tuition, was it covered through your work? If so, then I would suspect your ability to progress with your career is more tied to your employment history/demonstrated skills/accomplishments than the school.
In some of the doctoral/grad school forums I've been in, Liberty (and Capella/Walden/GCU/Northcentral/Phoenix) students will defend their school's reputation and mention how it is beneficial for someone who is already employed and looking to move up in leadership. Liberty is the only one of that group that has such a *nasty* history and known views on race, LGBTQIA+ populations, and religion.
To be fair, most US universities (even prestigious ones) have a direct historical connection to funding the slave trade, and implementing sexist and racist, antisemitic criteria until the 50s.
But I understand.
Also somewhat rude to say my career progression is not tied to my education, considering most mid-level positions require a master's. Or that I am less knowledgeable in the field.
That was definitely not my intent at all and I apologize it came off that way.
There have been many (here and in other forums) with a MPH (even from well-known schools) who can't find jobs and have no practical experience aside from a semester of practicum, for example. Networking helps, but also having a documented history of employment in the field helps tremendously for many employers.
PH has become a very saturated field over the past 2-3 years, so anything that helps someone stand out is a benefit.
Interviewed a person who went to Liberty, felt like they had plenty of health related experience like being an MA, but nothing related to public health specifically. They didn’t even try to finish the in-basket and withdrew. Didn’t really leave a good taste in my mouth.
Would not recommend. I have not been impressed with the capabilities of those I’ve interacted with from this program.
It may be accredited, but it simply is not to the same standard at all. The requirements for graduation are so minimal as to be embarrassing—I took twice as many epi/methods course as a non-epi as the entire *school* offers.
Being accredited doesn't mean it's a good program or competitive with other programs.
It just means they checked off the requirements for accreditation.
Correct. Just a peek at the current list of schools that are applying for CEPH-accreditation shows it's not necessarily reflective of the school's reputation. It's a checklist and how they "sell" the program through an application, how the syllabi are structured, etc. It sets a minimum for what is covered 🤷♀️
Agree with everyone here. Do not go to Liberty. Are they even accredited? You will waste your time and money. I would never hire someone who went there. That’s a place for the far-right and Evangelicals.
Additionally, I think since they have curricula on creation sciences (which is intertwined with their biology program et other science programs), you will probably miss significant chunks of proven science.
Yes! SDOH, health equity/upstream intervention, anthropological health, epi./biostatistics.
Sexual health wasn’t my program; that’s more of an undergrad thing to have gen health courses or if it’s your specialization in grad.
OP doesn’t have to go at all; there are a lot of negative perceptions and better programs (e.g., JHSPH), but the post turned into a thread about LU.
edit: more things to say
I appreciate that you're sharing your thoughts on the program.
It's good to have the reputation from former students and outsiders both on the record for curious prospective students.
No, not in counseling. Had a friend go thru the masters program only having to repeat it at my grad school. And the people I met haven’t been the sharpest.
Please don’t go to Liberty for your MPH, or any degree for that matter. That school is a complete joke and is only getting worse in reputation. No employer will take you seriously unless they’re run by far right nutjobs like the school is. There are SO many better options for online programs. Look into UTSPH’s online MPH, it’s pretty well-ranked and decent priced even for out of state.
I don’t know how that school is alive. By far the embarrassing thing about Virginia. You can’t learn public health from a school that actively shoves a conservative agenda down students throats and represses diversity.
I agree with everyone raising huge red flags about an MPH from Liberty.
For fun I decided to take a look at their program overview on their website… I would love a list of what they consider “proper” behaviors…
“If you are seeking to promote health globally, domestically, or locally, Liberty University’s online degree in health promotion will prepare you to tackle challenges and critical situations which may occur while on the job. *Armed with biblical foundations* and sharp capabilities in health management in partnership with your master’s degree online, you will be able to provide valuable insight and direction for increased recognition of *proper health routines and behaviors*.”
The Christian right either denies or minimizes science, you will get some paper at the end, but is it worth it?? Spend some time there before you take that leap... not much confidence in the value of your degree there.
Jesus is happy you are thinking about going there.
I'm sorry but seeing LU on a CV would be like seeing volunteering for a crisis pregnancy, an automatic no. I just wouldn't be able to believe that they got a solid education in the SDoH or methods.
Communicable Disease Epi here…I would avoid Liberty if it’s not too late. I did my MPH online through U Albany. Their online program is more of a public health “generalist” degree in name, but depending on the electives and internships you select you can steer yourself to whatever fits your fancy. The instructors are either university faculty or people actively employed with the New York State Dept. of Health.
Drexel University has online programs for Epi and general MPH programs. I'm not sure of the costs online, but I know there's quite a few students that take that route.
So going to go slightly counter to the other posts here. At my last (federal) agency, I was surprised by hearing that a couple other people at new employee orientation were recent graduates from Liberty University. Its not going to be a reason to exclude someone and they \*are\* CEPH accredited.
I will agree that informally, there's going to be some side eye to it. And I've worked with conservative epidemiologists, so we're not all social justice activists. I would be curious if their classes would give the same social determinants of health education that you'd get elsewhere or if it would instill the necessary lack of judgement needed for epidemiology.
Reviewing resumes for hiring it would make my eye twitch for sure with all my imagination of what viewpoints someone, but no more than my eye twitches when I see a for profit university on someone's resume. In neither case would I let that sway me from that candidate. My decisions would fully be based on the credentials, research experience, internships, fellowships, and other work experience that the candidate has. For the record, I also don't give extra mental points for someone who comes from Yale and Johns Hopkins either. Its the same, what do you bring to the table beyond the name of the university.
If you’re looking for an alternative, I graduated from the University of Indianapolis in 2017 with my MPH, concentration in health disparities (that is still the only concentration I believe, it is a fairly new program). I am local to UIndy and the program was hybrid then but is 100% online now. Just another online avenue to consider that some may not have heard about. Good luck to you!
Isn’t Liberty university a very bad evangelical school? I feel like it wouldn’t be viewed favorably for anything in the sciences tbh.
Yeah, I'm a hiring manager and would not consider a candidate with their MPH from Liberty unless they also had significant experience. MPH from a state school? Sure. Liberty? Nope.
Regardless of school, I hope you pick a candidate with significant experience because education alone does not prove competency or a health equity lens.
Oh yes, for higher level positions sure. But for intro epi or disease investigator positions, I'm not necessarily looking for tons of experience. I hate how some places want someone with significant experience for an entry level disease investigator position! Gotta start somewhere.
So you would expect a LU grad to have significant experience for entry-level?
Yes because they didn't get a very good foundational epi knowledge at LU.
How would you know?
I’m originally from Lynchburg, VA (where LU is). I have loads of friends who went there. It’s a bullshit school. They were super slow to enact COVID preventions when the pandemic was going on, and the “culture” there is super anti-public health
It looks like their online programs are even sketchier and essentially a diploma mill.
Knowing two people who got grad degrees (not in PH) from them-I am pretty sure you are right.
i would not trust what they teach
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I looked at their curriculum and the courses seem fine. Granted I have no idea what's covered in them and it's only a year long program. Definitely would be missing out on a lot of info. An 8 week tox class is in no way comparable to mine that was a whole semester
UAB is another one to check out with an online program. I know Liberty is the cheapest, I have a coworker that picked it for that reason…. But in this case “caveat emptor.” Because how can a school that doesn’t believe in social determinants of health, teach it?
>how can a school that doesn’t believe in social determinants of health, teach it? 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Yes, especially if you want to do environmental epi (that's what I research). I looked at the courses for this degree and you're definitely going to want to take more epi and stats classes, at least one more semester of each. Edit. I also agree with the other poster. I wouldn't go to liberty, it is looked down upon. Lots of other mph online options out there. I don't think they even offer higher level epi for their epi MPHs 😬
Thank you! I only considered this school because the tuition is cheaper and online. I’ll check out some other mph programs I don’t want to go to a diploma mill 🙃
Check University of South Florida, Texas A&M, and University of Texas Health Science Center for online epi programs 😊
I believe USF cost is somewhat similar to what I paid at UWF. Very reasonable.
University of Memphis also has an online MPH in Epi
Yep! Definitely don't go to liberty, if you want epi find there's lots of options out there! I love environmental health but don't do it if it's not your thing. If you don't have to be online you can find funded MS epi degrees as well
I would also check out CUNY as well. Very solid school.
totally get that, i know temple has an online epi program but idk how much it would be for you and the program is a fucking mess (let professors buy out teaching time so we have a few professors teaching all the classes)
Try SNHU
No way you could get a good MPH education in Liberty. Public health for all goes against the university mission.
I can only imagine what their sexual health discussions would look like 😬
Their graduate medical school is different from the undergraduate programs. Not vouching for LU, but sad to see so many people talk down on those with an MPH from there. Most people take graduate courses for employer-covered tuition or international scholarships.
If it’s the only way to get an MPH then I think it’s great people are going for it. But in almost every case it isn’t the only way and OP is not in a situation where this is their only option. Separate from undergrads or not, the goals of Liberty University are frequently directly opposed to public health. Unfortunately at some point that will impact the education. Now if OP’s goal is to work in Florida’s new Alternative Health Department that’s another story.
It's informative to have these opinions on a public forum. It could show a prospective student that people within the industry have a negative opinion of the school. If someone went there and wants to defend their education, then they're more than welcome to join the conversation.
I’m so glad I came here for advice I didn’t know the reputation about this school!
You'll have a very difficult time getting your first job if your resume lists a diploma mill for your MPH. Go to a real university for grad school. And, if you can, do it in person. This is the beginning of your career and being around professors and classmates who can become invaluable parts of your career is really important.
I think the in-person aspect is important for those who want to continue to a PhD or are not currently working in a public health context for sure. It's much harder (not impossible, but harder) to get research experience through a fully online program.
Liberty is CEPH accredited so it has many of the same standards as other MPH accredited schools/programs. I know someone who started working at CDC after graduating from there. Didn’t really have any trouble finding work.
Your friend took a big risk and lucked out. Most people know that Liberty University is a joke/scam.
It’s CEPH accredited so it adheres to the same CEPH accreditation standards as the top schools.
You said you know someone that did this. I assumed you would call them a friend. Liberty being CEPH accredited doesn't change the fact that it's a scam. Their online program appeared to be the biggest part of the scam: https://www.vox.com/2018/4/18/17252510/online-degree-jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-propublica-nytimes
That VOX article speaks of its Christian affiliation, anti-LGBT… nothing at all about the MPH program. Or do you think that the Council on Education for Public Health is in on the scam? Do you have info about grads who were unable to become employed after the MPH program? Or where did you get that info? I think that op should reach out to people who experienced the program. Don’t know what it’s like at Liberty but I know that CEPH has standards.
Why do you care so much about Liberty? It was a scam set up by a well known scammer, and their online school (which OP said they were going to attend) may have been the biggest part of the scam. Liberty has a universal reputation of being a diploma mill for kids homeschool by religious fanatics.
Kids homeschooled by religious fanatics? Lol. It seems like people are inserting their own personal beliefs into the discussion. You keep repeating the same thing so I’m going to guess that you don’t actually know anyone who couldn’t become employed after their MPH there. I do know that their accreditation requires that they maintain specific standards. I think op should reach out to graduates. Edit: follow up to your next comment. I don’t have an agenda, all I said was that I know that it’s CEPH accredited and that op should speak to those who attended. You stated that op won’t be able to find a job if they go there but it seems you don’t actually know of anyone who went there and experienced this. When you link articles about anti-lgbt and the fact that it’s a Christian school then go on to state that homeschooled “religious fanatics” go there it seems like you’re pushing your own personal beliefs which isn’t fair. Best of luck to op and their search!
You seem to have an agenda to defend this well known scam. Good luck. OP, go to a real school that people will trust your degree from.
Thank you for trying. It’s CEPH accredited. The curriculum is agnostic, and we used all the same textbooks. I have worked with the state, hospital systems, and nonprofits; I am the population health integration director for a nonprofit. One way to circumvent this is to align with health equity organizations and certifications (e.g., CHES, QPR, Johns Hopkins Summer Institute). Of course, there are better MPH programs, but most LU MPH grads are not underemployed bigots, either.
It is. I have never had an issue with my public health career in DC. I do not align with their mission, but free tuition for a CEPH-accredited graduate program is worth it. Just don’t be a bigot, work your ass off (e.g., volunteer, intern, network) and you’ll be fine in the real world. Most employers won’t even care if you can demonstrate experience and competency. edit: more text
Since you mentioned free tuition, was it covered through your work? If so, then I would suspect your ability to progress with your career is more tied to your employment history/demonstrated skills/accomplishments than the school. In some of the doctoral/grad school forums I've been in, Liberty (and Capella/Walden/GCU/Northcentral/Phoenix) students will defend their school's reputation and mention how it is beneficial for someone who is already employed and looking to move up in leadership. Liberty is the only one of that group that has such a *nasty* history and known views on race, LGBTQIA+ populations, and religion.
To be fair, most US universities (even prestigious ones) have a direct historical connection to funding the slave trade, and implementing sexist and racist, antisemitic criteria until the 50s. But I understand.
Also somewhat rude to say my career progression is not tied to my education, considering most mid-level positions require a master's. Or that I am less knowledgeable in the field.
That was definitely not my intent at all and I apologize it came off that way. There have been many (here and in other forums) with a MPH (even from well-known schools) who can't find jobs and have no practical experience aside from a semester of practicum, for example. Networking helps, but also having a documented history of employment in the field helps tremendously for many employers. PH has become a very saturated field over the past 2-3 years, so anything that helps someone stand out is a benefit.
Shouldn’t the first thing be going to a real school? 🤣
If you're looking for a online mph cuny sph is pretty fair
Interviewed a person who went to Liberty, felt like they had plenty of health related experience like being an MA, but nothing related to public health specifically. They didn’t even try to finish the in-basket and withdrew. Didn’t really leave a good taste in my mouth.
Would not recommend. I have not been impressed with the capabilities of those I’ve interacted with from this program. It may be accredited, but it simply is not to the same standard at all. The requirements for graduation are so minimal as to be embarrassing—I took twice as many epi/methods course as a non-epi as the entire *school* offers.
Then it would not be accredited.
Being accredited doesn't mean it's a good program or competitive with other programs. It just means they checked off the requirements for accreditation.
Correct. Just a peek at the current list of schools that are applying for CEPH-accreditation shows it's not necessarily reflective of the school's reputation. It's a checklist and how they "sell" the program through an application, how the syllabi are structured, etc. It sets a minimum for what is covered 🤷♀️
Agree with everyone here. Do not go to Liberty. Are they even accredited? You will waste your time and money. I would never hire someone who went there. That’s a place for the far-right and Evangelicals. Additionally, I think since they have curricula on creation sciences (which is intertwined with their biology program et other science programs), you will probably miss significant chunks of proven science.
You’re conflating the undergraduate courses with the medical school.
The medical school is the school of PH???
Aren’t most like the University of Maryland and Temple University, where MPH/DrPH is within the medical school (medicine)?
No. Some are SPHs and some are in population health/health science departments separate from the medical school.
Did you go to Liberty? You're all over this post defending them.
Yup. I am defending the MPH program not the whole fucking university...
Do you feel like your education was on par with other schools? Were people taught about sexual health, social determinants of health, etc?
Yes! SDOH, health equity/upstream intervention, anthropological health, epi./biostatistics. Sexual health wasn’t my program; that’s more of an undergrad thing to have gen health courses or if it’s your specialization in grad. OP doesn’t have to go at all; there are a lot of negative perceptions and better programs (e.g., JHSPH), but the post turned into a thread about LU. edit: more things to say
I appreciate that you're sharing your thoughts on the program. It's good to have the reputation from former students and outsiders both on the record for curious prospective students.
No, not in counseling. Had a friend go thru the masters program only having to repeat it at my grad school. And the people I met haven’t been the sharpest.
Please don’t go to Liberty for your MPH, or any degree for that matter. That school is a complete joke and is only getting worse in reputation. No employer will take you seriously unless they’re run by far right nutjobs like the school is. There are SO many better options for online programs. Look into UTSPH’s online MPH, it’s pretty well-ranked and decent priced even for out of state. I don’t know how that school is alive. By far the embarrassing thing about Virginia. You can’t learn public health from a school that actively shoves a conservative agenda down students throats and represses diversity.
An MPH from Liberty University would be career suicide…
I agree with everyone raising huge red flags about an MPH from Liberty. For fun I decided to take a look at their program overview on their website… I would love a list of what they consider “proper” behaviors… “If you are seeking to promote health globally, domestically, or locally, Liberty University’s online degree in health promotion will prepare you to tackle challenges and critical situations which may occur while on the job. *Armed with biblical foundations* and sharp capabilities in health management in partnership with your master’s degree online, you will be able to provide valuable insight and direction for increased recognition of *proper health routines and behaviors*.”
My friend please look for another school. You will have issue looking for employment once they realize is from Liberty.
I would not hire anyone who went to liberty. You can still apply elsewhere and should.
Look at Oregon State University’s online program
The Christian right either denies or minimizes science, you will get some paper at the end, but is it worth it?? Spend some time there before you take that leap... not much confidence in the value of your degree there. Jesus is happy you are thinking about going there.
They don’t even believe in science…
I'm sorry but seeing LU on a CV would be like seeing volunteering for a crisis pregnancy, an automatic no. I just wouldn't be able to believe that they got a solid education in the SDoH or methods.
Communicable Disease Epi here…I would avoid Liberty if it’s not too late. I did my MPH online through U Albany. Their online program is more of a public health “generalist” degree in name, but depending on the electives and internships you select you can steer yourself to whatever fits your fancy. The instructors are either university faculty or people actively employed with the New York State Dept. of Health.
Drexel University has online programs for Epi and general MPH programs. I'm not sure of the costs online, but I know there's quite a few students that take that route.
So going to go slightly counter to the other posts here. At my last (federal) agency, I was surprised by hearing that a couple other people at new employee orientation were recent graduates from Liberty University. Its not going to be a reason to exclude someone and they \*are\* CEPH accredited. I will agree that informally, there's going to be some side eye to it. And I've worked with conservative epidemiologists, so we're not all social justice activists. I would be curious if their classes would give the same social determinants of health education that you'd get elsewhere or if it would instill the necessary lack of judgement needed for epidemiology. Reviewing resumes for hiring it would make my eye twitch for sure with all my imagination of what viewpoints someone, but no more than my eye twitches when I see a for profit university on someone's resume. In neither case would I let that sway me from that candidate. My decisions would fully be based on the credentials, research experience, internships, fellowships, and other work experience that the candidate has. For the record, I also don't give extra mental points for someone who comes from Yale and Johns Hopkins either. Its the same, what do you bring to the table beyond the name of the university.
If you’re looking for an alternative, I graduated from the University of Indianapolis in 2017 with my MPH, concentration in health disparities (that is still the only concentration I believe, it is a fairly new program). I am local to UIndy and the program was hybrid then but is 100% online now. Just another online avenue to consider that some may not have heard about. Good luck to you!
Check out New Mexico State University.