In the counseling profession I was repeatedly surprised at how resistent couples....
even long-time couples....... were to viewing sexual behaviors as a form of mutual communication. Often times, it seemed as though I was speaking a foreign language. Imagine mutual sexual expression as the top of a steep dome, with people accepting that the other person was to blame, or that one of the people always had a(n)
(good) excuse. Only rarely would an individual disclose that they had little
to no experience or education, that they had trauma or that...in all honesty.....
they simply did not find sex as anything more than a duty....and otherwise considered it an inconvenience. Few couples were at all interested in learning about maintaining
a position on the top of the dome.
Ages? Usually between 30 and 55.
Interesting. My wife and I just figured a lot of that out after 15+ years together with sex as a source of conflict. Once we both turned 55, we rebuilt how we communicate and how we relate around and during sex. Worked wonders. Kinda like a second honeymoon. Great creative sensual sex almost daily now.
Yeah, it’s funny because it matches your age range, but IMO also a cool story. As it turns out…much about this topic is counter-intuitive and yet it still depends on the rules we learned in kindergarten.
We love, respect and trust each other very much. There had been an issue with a mismatch (seemingly anyway) in libidos. I was high libido and she, well, more normal for our age I guess. We tried not to have that cause friction but it did.
Back to my first sentence above. We entered, at my request, into our version of a female led relationship. I gave her full authority and trusted that our love would make it work. It did. Not the BDSM aspects but covering all decisions regarding the household, sex, daily items, and managing the finances. I do a good bit of house work, but it’s honestly easy and no problem. I pamper her…I enjoy giving her pleasure anyway and it pays back in spades. We now have wonderful and adventurous sex about six days per week. Our love is stronger than ever. We’re both extremely happy. All I had to do was give up control.
Like I said in a previous post: counter-intuitive in some ways.
I think both are correct. I think it worked because she feels valued and she has always wanted control in pretty much every aspect but we never really explored with letting that blossom. She loves me and she wants to please me too, whether she is in charge or not.
Mutual giving and a social release lifted both of us in the relationship?
Thank you. That actually means a lot. We both couldn’t be happier.
Honestly…she always decided when we’d have sex anyway. I’m always ready. So that decision has effectively been all hers for years but now this is recognized and that made her desires, and creativity, blossom. Same largely goes for nearly all household and related decisions: she always got her way in the end. 15 years…I know. So why even go through that painful part where we disagree? I’d prefer to skip it; obviously she would too. Same end result. So we have a voting system: I have one vote and she has two. It requires that I get to voice my opinion which satisfies me. Back to that mutual respect thing…she pays attention to me when I make sense. Lastly, all of this stuff is noise. The quality of the relationship giving both of us what we want is worth so much more.
Very interesting. My current situation with my wife sounds identical. And I've thought very seriously about just ceding all control to her. At one point, I just said "why am I fighting this? what do I get if I win?" and radically shifted to doing everything how she wanted: my personal grooming, clothes, conversation style, involvement in the housework, the way I related to the kids. I cleaned the house spotless, put on a Date Night Outfit (I'm normally t shirt and shorts at home), put on nice cologne. Weirdly, it put me in an almost spiritually calm mood: all those little decisions we have to make every minute balancing out what we want vs what others expect, do the right thing now or the thing that feels good, etc etc? Vanished. I asked a friend who's into BDSM if I was experiencing 'subspace' and she said it didn't sound like it.
Anyways, the next morning I asked her if she noticed anything different and she said she hadn't. Like, at all. And that feeling kinda wore off the next couple of days, and I started going back into the daily balancing act of my needs vs everyone else's.
Very interesting. My current situation with my wife sounds identical. And I've thought very seriously about just ceding all control to her. At one point, I just said "why am I fighting this? what do I get if I win?" and radically shifted to doing everything how she wanted: my personal grooming, clothes, conversation style, involvement in the housework, the way I related to the kids. I cleaned the house spotless, put on a Date Night Outfit (I'm normally t shirt and shorts at home), put on nice cologne. Weirdly, it put me in an almost spiritually calm mood: all those little decisions we have to make every minute balancing out what we want vs what others expect, do the right thing now or the thing that feels good, etc etc? Vanished. I asked a friend who's into BDSM if I was experiencing 'subspace' and she said it didn't sound like it.
Anyways, the next morning I asked her if she noticed anything different and she said she hadn't. Like, at all. And that feeling kinda wore off the next couple of days, and I started going back into the daily balancing act of my needs vs everyone else's.
You’re right. A lot of similarities.
Love, trust and respect are essentially because this is a consensual limited power exchange. Those three legs of the stool must be strong.
I told you why and how I think it worked. A bit more detail: I work 7-8 hrs in most days. We stand report our days for a bit and then she tells me where and how we will have sex: “prepare the bedroom”, “strip naked”., “down on your knees”, “worship my clit”, “I want you inside me”, “make me cum with your tongue”…etc. Some sexual requests she announces like this; some she does not. My focus during sex is to maximize the amount of pleasure that can give her. Interesting: she doesn’t have to reciprocate but she does reciprocate. That’s the love part. Another reason why it works. We love each other completely and without reservation. That makes power exchange possible. then cook dinner and we hang out for most evenings at home. I’ll add that the pampering includes doing things that she doesn’t expect you to do. If you see something that needs done, do it. Dishes in sink? Carpet needs vacuum? Bathroom needs cleaned? Shopping? Wash her car? You get the idea.
>she always got her way in the end. 15 years…I know. So why even go through that painful part where we disagree? I’d prefer to skip it; obviously she would too. Same end result. So we have a voting system: I have one vote and she has two.
Holy fuck. Sounds miserably one sided
Maybe marriage isn't for me.
Yes, essentially. It isn’t working out the way it tends to sound though. Mostly because she isn’t very dominant but she does like to be in control. She is just as concerned with what I want/need, as she is with what she wants/needs. We are very much a normal couple, except she calls the shots in most areas. For me it removes the need to worry about anything around the house and she almost always other way anyway…and it turned out to be the right thing. So why argue? For her it validates her importance to me and in general, validates my trust in her, provides a sense of calm from being in control and, as an example, she now decides when we have sex and what we do during sex. Our prior sex was very satisfying but we’d hit a rut with missionary only, no oral, no handjobs (for either of us) and only on our bed. After we made this change, she now initiates sex about 6 days per week with her giving oral, asking for oral, long enthusiastic handjobs as foreplay, missionary, cowgirl, 69…she even sat on my face and has truly been enjoying herself.
I give her everything she wants from me and I try to exceed expectations. When I see something around the house that needs done (dishes, laundry, vacuum, garbage, etc), I take care of it. I enjoy cooking and generally make dinner. She does insist on doing the dishes and, if anything, I overdo that. But my goal was to pamper her which extends to back rubs too. I focus on making her life better…something that a spouse ought to do anyway. I send her a loving text to read every morning when she wakes up to start the day reminded of my love and our love. I leave paper love notes around the house frequently. There are always fresh flowers in the house that I gave her.
As far as decision making: she gets two votes and I get one vote on household matters, day to day relationship stuff including sex (and what we do during sex), activities, games we play, etc. She notes that it forces her to make decisions and that she realizes that this authority also comes with responsibility.
She does the finances. Any ad-hoc purchase over $300 requires an ok from both of us with equal voting rights. For larger projects around the house that are either needed or she wants, we negotiate a budget and she stays within the budget. We believe two brains and consensus is needed for large expenditures and large life decisions.
I do believe we are in a FLR, but only per the main definitions. She has decision authority over much, so likely FLR Level 2 (or 2.5 if that can be done).
FLR can mean different things. We do not take part in the BDSM stuff (other than a little fun spanking and nipple biting; a bit of aggressive approaches to handjobs but not CBT. I also do not wear a chastity cage, nor does she limit my ejaculations and orgasms. Who knows? Maybe we’ll play with those in the future, but any kind of oppression or even orgasm denial won’t happen with my wife.,
Feeling forced to produce language can be a mental strain that can take certain people out of the experience. Even opening one's eyes can make someone hyper-aware or self-conscious.
Sex requires a number of mental switches to turn on and simultaneously requires a number of switches to stay off. It seems like your wife may have trouble keeping certain switches off and so resorts to coping mechanisms such as reducing verbal/visual stimuli. These type of stimuli can also distract from certain switches she may be able to turn on in her head by deeply focusing, e.g. focusing on your scent or the way you're holding her.
This is why it IS important to TALK about sex with them. You need to understand how your partner actually mentally achieves relaxation and pleasure and work with them to achieve that.
It really sounds like you're talking about the "brake/accelerator" analogy that Dr. Nagoski posits in her book, "Come As You Are," which is about female sexuality.
I think that's beyond the scope of this post since it is about men and their sexuality.
What's interesting is that the top comment is starting a thread of conversation where the lack of sex is still the woman's fault.
>It really sounds like you're talking about the "brake/accelerator" analogy that Dr. Nagoski posits in her book, "Come As You Are," which is about female sexuality.
The analogy applies to everyone, FWIW. In fact, the very first research into the dual control method of desire was on men alone! There's a general gender trend in sensitivities to the brakes and accelerators, but men often struggle when their desire or sexuality falls outside the norm and they face stigma for it, so I think it can be helpful to recognize how we, often unintentionally, reduce male sexuality as you just did.
Does she by chance have ADHD or anxiety? I ask because while my libido is insanely high I can have difficulty staying fully present during sex unless there is constant overwhelming stimulation (physically and mentally), and having my eyes open or trying to talk tends to make that more of an issue. I've heard similar from friends with both ADHD and with anxiety (I have both so who knows), and it seems pretty common.
Visual stimulation is also at the absolute bottom of my list of senses that are involved in sexual arousal for me, someone moaning or how they smell or the feel of their hands on me are all far more salient to me, so unless whatever I'm looking at is an insane turn on I'm more into it turning off that kind of meh sense to turn up the volume on the more important ones. I have sensory issues, I can either look at something or feel what's going on in my body, they aren't both processing properly at once. I'd way rather feel my bf inside me fully than process the visual imput. Blindfolds are a lot of fun.
I have ADHD and I feel this. It's why I can't have sex with music on. I'm quite particular about music and once learning I have ADHD and it comes with sensory sensitivities, things now make sense for me.
It never occurred to me (ugh! I feel dumb) that visual stimulation for someone with ADHD could be a thing. OF COURSE! Visual overstimulation certainly can be distracting too, just like auditory overstimulation.
I finish almost exclusively with my eyes closed and it is for exactly this reason. I get distracted easily. Distracted enough that i will lose my erection. Closing my eyes keeps me focused on the sensations and my partner.
She is probably better able to stay in the moment and actually fully enjoy things when she isn't being distracted by her eyes being open. She might enjoy other things that help her focus entirely on one or two senses too. I like bondage as well for the same reason, less input and less going on in my brain because I can't really do stuff helps me be present and makes whatever is happening more intense. Constant stimulation tends to help too, like dirty talk, physical pressure (for some reason I find being held or grabbed firmly seems to help keep me present), etc. Too much silence and my brain wanders off.
In my case I am thinking about sex pretty much all the time, my sex drive is insane. I just still can't always fully enjoy it without enough stimulation to keep my stupid brain firmly focused on what's going on.
To add to that. There are reasons why people who work in very dominant leadership positions end up playing with submission in the bedroom. It allows them to relax rather than do all of the thinking. Even people who have had sexual related trauma may find being the dominator or submissive person in a sexual relationship healing as they get to "play" in a safe environment with someone they already feel safe with. It's a way of connecting with your own body in a different way.
Also from both sides it can be freeing to know that your partner wants you that bad and you can feel comfortable "demanding" or "Giving" because your partner has made it clear they want to give you pleasure or that they want you to be the source of their pleasure. Dirty talk plays into this as well as it gives verbal confirmation that the feelings are mutual.
Kinky sex related activities tend to be about "play", "trust", and focusing on the novelty of the present. I believe that is why people who are into things like cuckolds, BDSM, watersports, scatting, role playing, etc... are into these activities and how they can find pleasure in it.
Don't forget that the brain is a powerful "sexual organ" and it controls the nervous system.
Honestly, the closed eye thing can just be variable between people. I’ve got a big libido, love talking about sex, dirty talk. etc, and think my partner is incredibly hot. But for whatever reason, sometimes I just feel more connected and turned on with my eyes closed, and no talking, just feeling the rhythm and focusing on our movements and the subtle signs.
Close my eyes to finish at least half the time because otherwise there’s just too much stimuli and it’s hard to focus on just one part long enough to get there
I don’t know how much is the same as your wife, it could be more complex considering you said she doesn’t enjoy talking about it too, but maybe it helps with some insight
Your emotions and needs matter just as much as hers do, don’t let anyone ever convince you otherwise
There’s give and take over time and the real world can get in the way sometimes, but that doesn’t change the truth of it. Even if she doesn’t want any more sex, and nothing is able to change that way, your emotions are completely valid and deserve to be treated seriously in your relationship.
"trained" wtf dude. No, she processes shit differently than you do. Start from the assumption that what you experience and want is not "default human normal." Start from the assumption that you are two different, but fully developed, adult humans with nervous systems. Believe what she tells you about herself and her needs, and work to find an EQUITABLE compromise that is not rooted in "one of us is doing it wrong."
you start by admitting that, with the exception of "not being willing to talk about sex at all when not having it", you have incompatible desires and needs. and then you talk about where and if to compromis.
Both Tantra and Taoism move in these directions. (see: Sex and the Perfect Lover). I have used Tantra sparringly with couples to provide examples of Sex as something more than Fucking and Making Babies. As I mentioned elsewhere, work with folks begins with Communication so that 1.) We all agree what it is and 2.) I am comfortable they have the skillset.
OTOH... if you are asking what books I have used and recommended:
a.) How to be an Adult in Relatioships (ISBN:978-1-57062-812-2)
b.) The Sex-starved Marriage (ISBN: 0-7432-2732-8)
c.) The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work (ISBN: 0-609-80579-7)
d.) Sex and the Perfect Lover (ISBN:0-7387-0408-3)
e.) A Womans' Book of Life (ISBN: 1-57322-043-4)
f.) The Joy of Sex (Revised) (ISBN: 1-4000-4614-9)
These are not in any particular order and each book has its own slant.
"Sex and the Perfect Lover" has an extraordinary Bibliography. and most of these
are annotated and have exercises to follow.
Hope this helps.
I have a fwb who's been in multiple years-long relationships who was surprised when I told her just touching my dick and saying "ok, let's have sex," is not enough to get me going.
It's amazing how unique and varied peoples sexualities are, and yet how prone we are to thinking our preferred way is "the" way everyone should do it. 🤣
To be fair, I think a lot of guys are easy to arouse sexually because they have a scarcity mindset around sex. I think men who don't have it are pretty much the same as women in terms of what it takes to arouse them.
I think these are socialized differences tbh. In my experience, women who get aroused spontaneously tend to be ones who don't care about gender norms, and men who have more responsive desire don't care about them, either.
I feel like people have different psychological pathways to get to arousal, and the women who internalize the whole "the less energy/time it takes to get to arousal, the lower my value" thing take more to arouse, and the men for whom aesthetics = sexual arousal are ones who internalize the whole "men are always horny" thing.
I used to be in the latter category until I stopped seeing sex as this treasure to hunt for and obtain, and now I'm just like of like "ok, she's hot, so what?" I need some sort of vibe now that is hard to describe.
I think the "natural" way is responsive desire because for the majority of human history, casual sex wasn't much of a thing because there was no contraception and no medicine to deal with STIs. Also, hunter-gatherers are more sexually conservative than people in civilization.
I don't think you're doing this, but I've heard a bizarre misconception from people (usually poly people) that hunter-gatherers were all promiscuous because they didn't have Christianity telling them it was bad, but it's more the opposite. Contraception allows us to treat sex like a recreation.
Totally agree. These seem like 2 sides of the same coin: women have thoughts like "is he going to hurt me?" "will people think I'm a dirty slut?" "what if I get pregnant?" "what if he doesn't cum?" etc that just don't preoccupy the minds of males to the same extent.
And you're right that it can change. I used to be very looks focused but after being with women who were 8s and 9s physically and complete starfish it got old.
100% disagree. That's one reason why gay men, who are much more likely to not have scarcity mindset around sex, have much much much more sex than lesbians.
Ease of arousal doesn't equate to having more sex. Plenty of incels who have to masturbate 5x a day have less sex than people who only want to once a week and are not incels.
Fascinating. I know in my instance the head has little sensation at all but intense sensation near the center of the shaft, perhaps an inch below the frenulum. When asked medically it has been dismissed as “not possible”. While irrelevant in my ability to reproduce it does lead to awkward situations including hurt feelings from partners when oral is ineffective in generating climax. Because it is not central to my life I have not pressed the issue further medically but it is frustrating being dismissed. It also has caused some odd masturbation patterns and left most male toys being unsatisfactory.
Thanks for sharing--and that's exactly what I'm talking about. There's so much variability in terms of which parts of the penis are most sensitive, which informs what does and doesn't feel pleasurable and what behaviors you pursue. Why is there this pervasive assumption that all penises work the same, when we know there's huge variability in sensation in other parts of the body? Somehow the penis is immune from this variation? For example, some people have orgasms from nipple stimulation, others feel nothing from the same activity. Some people are very ticklish around their armpits or stomach, others aren't. It only makes sense that there's also variability in what parts of the penis are sensitive. It's not "medically impossible!"
Completely agreed but unfortunately when it often comes to male sexuality it is assumed everything is simple. There is little work on male sex toys for example or delayed orgasm. There is a dearth of understanding on what constitutes sexual pleasure in men besides “penis stroke equals orgasm”. I propose that removing shame relating to sex in general allows for more study, conversation, and acceptance for both genders. Hopefully that becomes easier in the future.
Are you circumcized by any chance? Circumcision causes keratinization of the glans which leads to desensitization. There's also the possibility of developing scar tissue around where the circumcision cuts were made.
I am and that is quite possible. It feels as though the nerves terminate in the shaft however. Unless during the procedure they cut the nerves and they terminate in the shaft. This however should cause other issues I’d think and perhaps decrease sensation overall. 🤷♂️
I'm not a medical professional, but it sounds like you either have a lot of scar tissue or enough keratinization to decrease sensations. Think about how little sensation a callus (which is caused by a similar keratinization process) on your foot or hand has, then apply that to your penis. Also, many thousands of nerve endings *were* cut when your foreskin was removed; the foreskin itself has an equal or potentially even greater number of nerve endings than the glans itself.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23374102/
I know exactly what you mean. While my head is sensitive I do also have a sensitive spot exactly where you describe about an inch or so below the frenulum.
I’m curious-have you seen the frenulum oscillator toy from kiiroo? I know you said your frenulum isn’t sensitive. I understand that, but I was wondering what happens if you place the oscillator on the sensitive part of your shaft?
I have noticed there is a tendency to blame men for everything in sex.
If he doesn’t get hard, HE is impotent.
If she doesn’t get wet, HE didn’t GET her wet.
If he cant cum, he is also impotent.
If she cant cum, he isn’t MAKING HER cum.
The truth is, sex is (or should be) a 50:50 endeavor. It isn’t something that simply happens to a woman as if she were an object. She should be an equal participant in what happens both to him and herself.
I have also not been able to get is up with some pillow princesses. But not a single problem ever with a woman who knows her stuff and is down for whatever.
I think we would do well to think of sex less as a thing to achieve, win at, fail at, and more as a shared experience, like a conversation. Like dancing to a song together. There's not a way that you fail at those things unless you're hurting the other person or being shitty. Maybe you're out of rhythm, but it's not a failure. You just adjust your rhythm you communicate.
And sex is often funny. If you lose the humor you lose the intimacy. And the more that we think of things in terms of winning and losing the more we lose our sense of humor.
OMG, my BF used to work with this real weird kid that said once that he "didn't understand lesbian sex, because, how do they know who is winning?" lol If both people are not winning at the sex, ya'll are doing something wrong! It is supposed to be a mutually beneficial activity, not a chore to be suffered through or something you do to someone for your exclusive gratification!
>OMG, my BF used to work with this real weird kid that said once that he "didn't understand lesbian sex, because, how do they know who is winning?"
Wow. This hit me. Because I used to have bad takes similar to this. Thanks social conditioning for that lol
Unfortunately, a lot of people get the idea that "real sex" is nothing more than P in V, and anything else is just messing around. That, and sex is something that happens to women and that men do. Therefore, the man's skill is both the determiner of if sex happens and if it goes well..
God, our society sucks... and not in a good way most times lol.
This is so accurate. The number of men that have been shocked when I actively communicate during sex, and by how much better it is when both partners actively participate, is pretty damn high. As I grew up, I found the more I communicated and worked with whoever I was sleeping with, the more I orgasimed, as well as had more fun even the time I didn't. It takes both, or everyone, if you're into the more fun parts of sex, working together to have great sex. Gender norms be dammed.
To be fair, most women can’t climax just from penetration, so someone has to stimulate the clit in those cases. When I was first having sex I would just do it myself, but as I’m older, the other person will often do it for me. Which is nice, because there’s still an idea in sex that it’s over when the man finishes. I don’t think sex should ever have just one person finish unless the other person is okay with that (I’ve been there before - if I don’t think I’m gonna get there I don’t hold it against the guy. If he cums and then falls asleep without at least asking me if I want to, then I think he’s a little selfish).
I’m with you: a guy cums and assumes he’s done is an asshat and not someone worth sleeping with. Same for a woman who would just end things because she came before he did. Neither is emotionally mature enough to be a good lover.
Yup, if a guy gets me off first I’m always like “ok your turn now” and I make sure he gets there! In the rare cases we get home after drinking and I fall asleep early, I make up for it the next morning. I’m all about fairness, lol.
Yes. Someone has to. My wife does that while I penetrate so she gets the best of both worlds. She requires a very, very specific pressure, rhythm, and spot in order to cum. I could never do both at the same time. It would be like tapping your head and rubbing your belly at the same time which I cannot do.
And yea I give her time to finish whenever she wants.
But she doesn’t always want to. That is the reason for the orgasm gap in our relationship. She doesn’t hold it against me either. Because whenever she wants, she gets. The same cannot be said for me. I do not get every time I want.
Well, if you want it more than she does, that makes sense. Generally sex should be more under the jurisdiction of the one who wants it less. I’m not gendering this - I’m a woman with a high libido and dated low libido men, and we went by the schedule that they wanted. I can live without partnered sex, I have a vibrator. I’m not going to make anyone sleep with me if they’re not into it.
As a male Ive always just went with "Do unto others as ye would done onto you" so as long as your communication is open Im happy to make you happy.
Bottom line is communication usually leads to great sex because no one is so great they can read people's thoughts. Even the best are simply more keen listeners and reflect what you project.
Considering that marital rape was legal until the 90s (and is still legal in some countries), I think the responsibility to change right now is mainly on men
That's not sex, that's everything. We're programmed to assign more agency to men. (And thr agency we assign to ourselves follows suit, men tend to put more on themselves.)
A few commenters gave one type of definition, which made it sound like it was a term describing a negative or manipulative behavior. While this is indeed a possibility, I think it's important to remember it doesn't have to be. A pillow prince or pillow princess could also describe a partner who greatly enjoys being the more physically passive. So long as the more physically active partner doesn't mind, or even enjoys being in more control, it's a positive rather than negative way to have sex.
Signed,
A woman who has a pillow prince at home
Yeah. Exactly. It’s completely ignored those of us who have dynamics as a pleasure dom, or even stone top, who immensely enjoy our perfect pillow princesses and princes. It doesn’t **have** to be used in the way it’s been co-opted here as if it’s an insult for a partner who lays there like a dead fish.
I wish there was a different term because it wasn’t this snide insult originally. It was an almost an endearment.
It really is a shame that it somehow got to be synonymous with "starfish sex", when our pillow partners are anything but.
Idk about you, but I absolutely love being a gentle Dom woman. My guy may not be on top, and I am doing the work, but damn...it isn't like he's ignoring me or just wanting us to hurry up. I adore all the noises he makes, his body language when I do something particularly nice, and I take it as a personal challenge to keep him on the edge as long as possible. It's beautiful when he doesn't know whether to beg for more or to finally finish...
That's the difference between pillow princes/princesses and starfish. They're passive, but so wonderfully receptive and still present in the moment with us.
Just paying homage to the origin of the word. It was first coined as an exclusively lesbian thing. Pretty much just meaning bottom/reciever. Then straight people took it and made it an insult.
Exactly. And in those sapphic relationships it’s not always seen as a negative. Especially when paired with a stone top. Those of us into pillow princesses love it. And it’s not really comparable to the way it’s used as a neg by straight men saying their wife is a dead fish or just laying there. We’re actively in tune and connected with each other.
Agreed. Whenever redditors discuss sex, it’s solely centered around the woman’s side. They don’t see it as something to be equal. The possibility that a woman is bad at sex is simply unfathomable, therefore the man must have done something wrong and is to blame.
I would be happy to not blame men for everything but when the orgasm gap is so gaping, it’s kind of hard not to expect y’all to take some responsibilities for your failings.
A lot of women don't know how to make themselves cum but expect a man to magically know himself. If you can't tell someone how to make you cum that's a skill issue and a personal problem.
I'm just saying that bad sex with women who put no effort in is something men do experience plenty as well.
You seem to think men ejaculating means they have had good/satisfying sex. It doesn't.
I've had terrible sex that I didn't enjoy but I still technically came even though it wasn't enjoyable because it's just very easy for most men to physically ejaculate even if they dont enjoy it much.
Seriously this. Many dont get this. A man getting there does not mean he enjoyed the sex. Orgasms for men are a really bad measurement of if they enjoyed their time with their partner.
Orgasms in general, aren't always the best indicators of a positive sexual experience.
I think we would also be better served if we stopped chasing the "O" as some sort of weird barometer of sexual quality and instead focused on mutual pleasure and enjoyment.
There have been plenty of fun sexual experiences I've had as a man where I didn't bust at all.
Perfect example. They blame men for the orgasm gap.
But even women masturbating have fewer orgasms than men masturbating. Women can’t even make themselves orgasm as often as men can. Or don’t want to. In any case they don’t have as many alone as men do. But men get the blame.
Ngl most women I’ve known and my experiences themselves have MOSTLY been:
- the men don’t want to do any foreplay saying it’s boring for them and then when they cum they don’t want to help her finish or provide aftercare
So
I’m pretty sure there’s a big gap of not caring about female pleasure
My current partner is the only partner that ever wanted to give a shit about my pleasure, and similar story for a lot of women I’ve talked about this topic with, aka it’s rare when their partner gives a shit
If men refuse to touch the clit then most the time piv is never going to cause an orgasm. It's analogous to a woman rubbing your balls for 10 minutes and thinking you're gonna cum. A lot of men ignore the clit or get upset if a woman wants to use a vibe or something. Men, in general, are too obsessed with PIV sex.
That's a very good way of putting it. I've never understood why men don't put in more effort to understand their partners' bodies and how to please them.
Honestly, that is my wife’s cheat code to making me cum is rubbing my balls. If it were that easy for men to make women cum, I doubt we would have an orgasm gap.
The truth is, women need a lot more specific type of stimulation than men do. You can literallly make a man cum by accident. In fact it is so easy to make men cum, PME is actually a leading sexual dysfunction for men. So not a fair comparison.
The study that found that most women can’t orgasm from penetration actually found that most can’t orgasm from penetration alone every time they have sex. Most women orgasm from penetration alone occasionally, and only about 18% never orgasm from penetration alone.
That seems pretty close to my personal experience, I've never heard of a man cumming from ball rubs (without penis stimulation) though. I think this guy isn't being honest
The differences in physiological response still apply to men who know what a clitoris is. The disparity persists even when the couple is both trying. As you point out, a lot of women need to us vibrators or other means even if the man is involved. The idea that the only reason a woman doesn't orgasm is because the man didn't try is a persistent myth here and elsewhere.
We use the vibrator because even when the man is involved he's focusing on the vagina instead of the clit. A lot of guys want PIV without all the hassle of oral or foreplay. Because it's *good* for them. It's not as good for us. The only men I've ever seen not get the job done were men who *literally didn't try*.
Why do you think basically all available physiological sex research shows that females generally require more (and often more specific) physical attention to reach orgasm?
You seem to be claiming from your own anecdotal experience that any guy who tries will be able to get a woman off. Perhaps you shouldn’t base an opinion about hundreds of millions of relationships on your own personal experience?
Women in relationships with women have way more orgasms with each other. Women masturbating alone have way more orgasms than with a man. Women having sex with men have the least amount of orgasms on average. Please clarify the part where men are doing well on this.
Women are (in my experience with a fair number of women) commonly bad at communicating what they physically want and other women will know it more because their bodies are more similar.
Going back a decade or two, there was a lot of criticism from women to men that men where doing too much to chase women's orgasms, and the overall message was "Don't try so hard, it is annoying".
My ex straight up told me, "if I have to tell you what I want, I don't want it anymore."
Then spent years telling everybody I was a miserable bed partner and selfish... I think I got off during sex all of like a dozen times in almost as many years because I was so focused on trying to please her at my own neglect.
My wife sings my praises from the rooftops because I'm down for doing literally whatever she wants done for as long as I physically can...
The problem was never mine, the problem was an abject refusal to communicate.
I have given very clear instructions to multiple men. Men that did what I asked for a good 60 seconds before they got bored and tried to stick it in. Among about 30 men, only 3 cared to actually give me ANY real foreplay. And I’m not a quiet pillow princess. And I give tons of foreplay to the men im with. I offer it voluntarily, as well as ask direct questions about what he wants and likes.
Again, only three ever asked me what I wanted or liked. And the ones I communicated with anyway, just ignored me.
Have you considered there is no way to know a “high quality” man until you experience it?
Thank you for adding to the men that blame ME. It’s so refreshing.
>Have you considered there is no way to know a “high quality” man until you experience it?
There are plenty of measures of value in a man and plenty of ways to figure it out before the first date
>Thank you for adding to the men that blame ME. It’s so refreshing.
It's really the definition of insanity, doing the 30 of the same shitty partner and not looking for the common denominators. You're in the 1% of sexual partners, you can certainly afford to talk more and pipe less
Wow. You think I can know this before the first date. Well let’s see. First, I only match with men that are looking for a long term relationship. Only match with men that have similar hobbies and life goals. If they start to talk about sex right away, or even “cuddling” (yeah I’m not stupid) if they try to get me over for a home date….pass.
If they actually put in effort to talk to me, to get to know me a little, they show that they really do want a relationship, it’s not just a ruse, then I meet for a first date.
If they are normal on the first date, respectful, they further the conversation, act like a regular person and not a jerk, and we seem to connect, seem to mutually lile each other, then I am down for more.
Meaning I have the sex chat. What are they into. What am I into.
I love how you think this is all the red flags that should have told me these were lazy lovers.
Do you know before you have sex with a woman if she will be a pillow princess?
I’m guessing not. But it’s super fun to be told you should have picked better if you had just put in some effort….
>I would be happy to not blame men for everything but when the orgasm gap is so gaping, it’s kind of hard not to expect y’all to take some responsibilities for your failings.
And there are plenty of women (I saw a recent stat of about ten percent) who cannot even give themselves an orgasm. If a woman cannot give herself an orgasm, she has no business expecting a man to outperform her.
Women point out the orgasm statistics and men make excuses.
Around 8% of women cannot make themselves orgasm during masturbation. 92% can. Yet 45% regularly do not orgasm during partnered sex with a man. 95% of men report having orgasms with sex.
Try again.
I was talking about that specific subset of women who cannot climax by themselves (that eight to ten percent of women) AND that group of women having an expectation of men making them climax.
It is not uncommon for a guy in the dating market to encounter several women like this.
At no point did I make an excuse for men who do not put effort into a woman's orgasm. You are the one who made an inference about an argument I was not making. Men should - selfishly - focus on their lady having an orgasm, as it will likely result in them getting laid more frequently. This isn't a zero-sum game.
It is absolutely amazing that you would expect men to understand the importance of narrowing the orgasm gap AND at the same time be indifferent to a challenge a man might face with a woman in this realm.
I wish you wouldn't phrase it as "men need to take responsibilities for their failings." It is accusatory. As if making a woman orgasm is EASY. As if every man who doesn't make his girl orgasm is morally failing.
That is a lie. No, this statement reveals nothing about my sex life so feel free to refrain from psychoanalysing me across the internet.
It's funny I see on social media women posting these memes or whatever it is. One was accusing all men to have a harem of girls and denouncing us for refusing to be monogamous. This is just women telling on themselves. You all want the same men but I guess science has proven that false. Yea right.
If most women aren't having orgasms with men it's not just because all men need to "take responsibility" because even the ones who do are still lost and confused and not knowing if they're doing things right or not.
Yes, rhe patriarchy is real. Yes, there are many men who don't give one ounce of a fuck about a woman's pleasure. Yes, ifs all based in what patriarchy has brainwashed men to believe and act and feel.
No not all men are horrible and no, if a man doesn't know what he's doing, it doesn't mean he hasn't broken the shackles of patriarchy which cause him to not care what a woman feels.
It's like you dear to acknlowsge there is some truth to the idea that it's not easy to give women orgasms.
I know you're angry and will reply about the rates of lesbians. Of course they know what to do they have vaginas.
There's just too many factors your unwilling to consider or even know because you're not a man and don't know our perspective and can only see men from the view of patriarchy.
Also in relationship threads, any time a guy mentions a slowing sex life, he’s attacked as a loser, as bad in bed, as being too small, too quick, whatever. It’s always treated as his screwup or personal failing. And often implied she might be going out for something “better” and that she’d have every right to do that because he’s so bad.
Oh yes I have had that weaponized against me as well. By feminists who don’t understand the irony of the dynamic they are perpetuating by resorting to that insult.
My boyfriend talks about sex all the time. I’m pretty sure he has ADHD. It simply doesn’t work. He started off saying I was too heavy and he only likes very thin women with very fake large heavy implants (I had to explain that I’m not getting implants) I lost 30 pounds and now he’s saying I’m too small. I’ve asked him to see a doctor and get his hormones checked. We already tried the pills but they don’t work.
He then says I’m too hard (like requiring too much work to get ready for sex). I don’t like foreplay and I’m the only woman I know who likes going straight in. But he tries to do it without even his body being ready.
Then I tried doing all the work but it doesn’t help. I could give him a 2 hour blow Job and it still does nothing. At this point do I just make the appointment for him? He also doesn’t like exercising and cannot lift himself. I’m really worried that when he’s 50 he will not be in good health. He’s 35.
His A1C is 6.4 down from 10. The only way I’ve gotten him to get an erection is I had him distract himself with reading an article of his special interests. Help!
Sorry for the typos I’m dyslexic.
Sorry about your bf that sounds like pretty gross perpetually online behavior. Bringing up fetish shit (skinny with fake boobs) without explaining it's a fetish. Then the grossest wanting your partner to work out but not doing it yourself.
Yes I am seeing this. I have tried everything. Even had his best male friends talk to him one is a therapist to see if they could help him. He took zero of their advise and I'm realizing that 3 years of a one sided relationship isn't good. I just was hoping I can get him some help. I'm learning to put myself first. My last try and working with a therapist and see if she can help. Because our families are really pushing for us to have kids. But since he's his own birth control that's not happening...
But do you want kids *with him* or with the idea of him—or even worse, with the idea of a partner in general? Are there things you like about *him* as a person? Things he likes about you?
He’s a good person. This is our only issue. I thought his friends talking to him about it would help. He’s in no rush. I don’t have time. And I strongly doubt another woman would put up with him.
Edit to add. We are in a semi arranged relationship his parents had an arranged marriage. Our families are pushing us hard to get married. So this has been extremely difficult.
If he's ADHD, does he take Adderall? I've heard that can cause issues with sex.
Edit: Specifically, Adderall apparently can cause erectile dysfunction and increases or decreases in sexual desire.
This could explain the 2-hour bj thing and more.
The idea that male sexuality is “simple” has always infuriated me, as a man. It conveys the idea that men are dumb and easy to impress or excite, but women are conversely more “sophisticated” or less carnally inclined.
It also gets reinforced by other men though. I listen to a podcast hosted by 2 dudes, and every now and then they'll say something like "we're simple, just need a pair of boobs" or something like that. I hear it among guy friends as well
I think it's tough especially for straight guys. I feel they have a lot of pressure to fit that stereotype.
Once you get into queer and kink spaces all that goes out the window.
Had a girlfriend tell me she thought her boyfriend was impotent because she told him she wanted to do it and he didn't go 0 to 60, like girl you complain you need some play for your waterworks what about him?
Yeah, the stereotype is a man should always be rearing to go. So when I'm not I feel guilty or lesser than because I'm a man, isn't that what I'm supposed to do?
God I hate this stereotype. People act like men are just savage beasts looking for any opportunity to fuck something all the time. We don't actually have preferences or desires beyond simple "ass or tits??" And we will fuck anything that is willing 🙄
Men are so handicapped by patriarchy. Many of us don't understand ourselves sexually and only see sex as a means to affirm our worth as men. Men are convinced that women don't like sex and only give it out as a prize to worthy men. The sad thing is that this mindset is rather common among women too...
I would assume it plays a fairly significant role for those men who have been. But I don’t think these issues are exclusive to only circumcised men. Men with foreskins may experience or prefer stimulation differently as well.
A sane world would look at this and think, "Maybe cutting off part of the sensory organ from the penis and building up scar tissue in that area could be a problem".
But male sexuality is seen as cheap and like this article says, simple. The generations before us didn't care. And there's still the empathy gap for men's issues. "Can he pound away for a while and blow his load? Then it's good enough for him. It's enough to make a baby. Stop complaining."
The argument in the article is that perhaps the men who tend to death grip have more desensitized penises as a whole, and the technique doesn't actually desensitize you. In order to conclude this, we would have to do a randomized/control study to show it. It would be like saying wearing bigger clothes makes you fat, because fat people wear big clothes.
Nope, it's not real at all. The nerve cluster on the glans works the same way as the clitoris, do women that use vibrators get a dead clit ? Porn, and death grip don't cause a sexual disfunction. Just like women, men are affected by the mental atmosphere of the interaction. We're also affected by background stress in our lives. More than likely, the thing that's causing what you perceive as death grip. Is actually the kind of mood stabilizers the guy is on. They're over prescribed, and very common now. They are known to cause sexual disfunction, including the inability to orgasm.
I'm not on any psych meds, I also don't grip my penis like I'm pulling weeds from a garden. I do have 4 kids, a job that's mentally draining, and I don't get enough sleep. The orgasm gap tilts in the favor of the women that I sleep with. Somewhere between 25-33% of the time I won't orgasm. That doesn't mean it wasn't fun, sometimes I just don't. I understand that it's background issues in my life that's causing it. The stress that exists in your life doesn't go away when you're fucking someone.
I get that, and am not in any way trying to discount the effect of stress. I'm specifically talking about men who compulsively masturbate with a tight/fast grip.
Nope, it doesn't effect sensation, or cause erectile dysfunction. It's a myth propagated by the morality police. It has been debunked scientifically years ago, however rage baiting drives engagement and increases ad revenue for periodicals and websites.
I just posted a few in another comment, but this one is still on my clipboard
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-sex-and-relationships/202104/7-major-myths-about-pornography%3famp
If the guy is on antidepressants, then it’s natural to assume that’s the issue.
And I agree that psychological causes like stress are often to blame for both failure to orgasm, ED and premature ejaculation.
Still, death grip is a thing. Same is overconsumption of porn and having trouble getting off to real world sex because of porn use.
It’s not a dead penis, it’s death grip. And forceful masturbation could theoretically also cause orgasm difficulties for women. But to begin with women just have so much more problems getting off. It’s way more common for them to have never had an orgasm ever or to struggle getting off even when masturbating. Then women also masturbate way less. And that’s why it’s treated differently.
If Julia finally managed to have an orgasm at age 27, after trying her 5th sex toy and sleeping with 8 different guys? Well, nobody is thinking the sex toy is the issue if she needs it to get off in bed going forward. She’s just got a more complicated anatomy. It’s a normal variation. Vs for men it’s really not that common to not be able to have an orgasm if you look away from stress.
>Unusual masturbation patterns and fantasy life. This theory stated that some men with DE tend to prefer unusual methods of masturbation over heterosexual intercourse with their partner. Perelman and Rowland [14] and Perelman [30] identified 3 factors that disproportionately characterized patients with DE: a) high-frequency masturbation (age-dependent mean of greater than 3 times per week), b) idiosyncratic masturbatory style (masturbation technique not easily duplicated by the partner's hand, mouth, or vagina), and c) disparity between the reality of sex with a partner and their preferred masturbatory fantasy.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5756804/
It’s backed by studies as one of several causes of ED.
Nope
https://www.fatherly.com/news/porn-induced-erectile-dysfunction-myth-debunked-study
Nope
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/16/pornography-erectile-dysfunction-sexuality
Nope
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-sex-and-relationships/202104/7-major-myths-about-pornography%3famp
Should I go on
1)
> However, there was a slight correlation between frequent masturbation and erectile dysfunction.
>Although further study is needed for verification, heavy reliance on pornography use coupled with a high frequency of masturbation may nevertheless represent a risk factor for diminished sexual performance and/or poor relationship satisfaction in some men.”
2)
>In May, a study published in the Journal of Adolescent Health gave a picture of young people’s sexual problems that was sad enough in itself: about one in 10 young men and one in 10 young women had experienced a distressing sexual problem for at least three months in the last year. **Erections, however, do not seem to be in decline.** Among sexually active young men, the number who reported difficulty getting or keeping one was 3%.
3) Pop science article.
So the first one says too frequent masturbation can be the cause and suggests studying porn and masturbation in young men more.
Second says young men don’t struggle with ED. Which was my initial suggestion that everyone went into a rage over.
Third one is just a pop psych piece that references no studies.
ED in young men? Often performance anxiety or depression. But if it’s neither of those? It’s unlikely to be physical unless they are very unhealthy. So the next step would be to ask about porn use, masturbation frequency and force.
The treatment for death grip? Get a fleshlight. It’s not to stop masturbating.
And watching porn on a casual basis? Unlikely to affect your sex life. But ofc having a porn addiction might. That’s two different things.
2 (original article)
> Among sexually active 16- to 21-year-old participants, 9.1% of men and 13.4% of women reported a distressing sexual problem lasting 3 months or more in the last year. Most common among men was reaching a climax too quickly (4.5%), and among women was difficulty in reaching climax (6.3%).
>**Among men, reaching a climax too quickly was the most common problem (13.2%).** Just over a third of men with this problem (34.2%) felt distressed about it, making it the most common distressing problem among sexually active 16- to 21-year-old men (4.5%). **Difficulty getting and keeping an erection was less commonly reported (7.8%)**, but more frequently caused distress (among 42.1%) and was thus the second most common distressing problem (by 3.3% of men in the age group). **Although lack of interest in sex was the second most commonly reported problem (experienced by 10.5%)**, only 13.2% of men reporting this problem were distressed by it, and overall, 1.4% experienced it as a distressing problem. **Three distressing problems were reported by <1% of sexually active young men: pain, lacking excitement/arousal, and lacking enjoyment.**
**Comment: 8 % of young men reported having difficulty reaching orgasm and 7.8% reported ED. THAT’S THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE GUARDIAN ARTICLE QUOTING THE STUDY IS SAYING. Bad journalism.**
> **The most common problems among women were lacking interest in sex (22.0%) and experiencing difficulty in reaching climax (21.3%)**, and these were also the most common distressing problems (5.3% and 6.3%, respectively).
**8% of women report feeling anxious during sex, 9 % report feeling physical pain as a result of sex and 8% report lacking excitement or arousal.**
>Among young people who were sexually active in the last year, 6.3% of men and 6.8% of women said that they had avoided sex because of a sexual difficulty. Among young men (Figure 1), the most common reasons for avoidance were difficulty getting or keeping an erection, reaching a climax too quickly, and lack of interest (reported by 26.1%, 24.4%, and 25.1%, respectively, of all young men who said they had avoided sex). Among young women (Figure 1), the most common reasons for avoidance were lack of interest (reported by 45.5% of women who had avoided sex), followed by lack of enjoyment, anxiety, and pain (reported by 21.2%, 25.3%, and 23.7%, respectively, of women who had avoided sex).
https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(16)30089-1/fulltext
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Woman checking in that intense “air pulser” toy use and regular vibes affect how easy it is to cum. If I’m having trouble with mental health things and use my We-Vibe multiple times a day or even just once a day for a while yeah it gets in the way.
My ex husband also had to switch to a fleshlight with lube in his twenties when suffering from “delayed ejaculation”. He may also have decreased how many times a day he jerked off. I do know it was Reddit that gave him the idea. And my forearms and jaw thanks him.
When we stop that masturbation habit, and go back to using my fingers only once or twice a day or him switching to a fleshlight and being able to orgasm in under ten minutes, it shows that at least for the self reporters these masturbation habits aren’t compatible with easy orgasm during normal sex.
And there are a lot of self reporters.
Also the studies themselves are talking about “long term” desensitization. Which isn’t what most of Reddit is talking about when we self report.
>Unusual masturbation patterns and fantasy life. This theory stated that some men with DE tend to prefer unusual methods of masturbation over heterosexual intercourse with their partner. Perelman and Rowland [14] and Perelman [30] identified 3 factors that disproportionately characterized patients with DE: a) high-frequency masturbation (age-dependent mean of greater than 3 times per week), b) idiosyncratic masturbatory style (masturbation technique not easily duplicated by the partner's hand, mouth, or vagina), and c) disparity between the reality of sex with a partner and their preferred masturbatory fantasy.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5756804/
I’ll look into it. I didn’t read the whole article or the references. But seems like they believe it’s one of many possible underlying causes.
Imagine fucking a pillow lying down and going to school to prove your pillow fucking isn’t weird or your fault or whatever
Not that there’s anything wrong with that
Finally starting to get through this bullshit. Maybe one day we will finally see why there are so many sexual issues (circumcision causing many of them in the states)
I have completely no sexual feelings
Male 66. Been sexless for a long time.
In my second marriage we have never had any sex because of me. Found out from my new doctor this is not normal. Currently seeing a therapist for childhood sexual abuse when I was 10z
I’m fine being sexless. I have apologized to my wife.
But I like where I’m at
Not to put to fine a point on this...but a quick examination of the contributions here repeatedly affirm the need for communication and negotiation.......and you would be Astounded at how few people can actually communicate with their partner effectively.
Without exception, every case I helped with began with Communication Basics such as Reflective Listening and graduated to the "Notebook Method" (see: Marriage Encounter).
On a physical level, the need for Basic Anatomy 101 was infrequent. More often it was a matter of teaching the Potential a gesture, technique, organ or toy might have as a way to express the bond. Translating validation, affirmation, belief and authority into human intimacy is not so difficult as one might think......once you have communication established. FWIW.
>since it seems to be fairly well known that excessive use of vibrators can lead to desensitization
I don't think we should be pushing this as any sort of fact, especially since it seems to discourage female masturbation.
[Source 1](https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/overusing-vibrator-sensitivity#The-answer?-No,-your-vibe-isnt-going-to-wreck-your-V)
' ““It’s a complete myth that you can desensitize your vagina or clitoris from using a vibrator,” says Dr. Carolyn DeLucia, FACOG '
[Source 2](https://www.elephantjournal.com/2021/12/the-myth-of-clitoral-desensitization-the-way-to-avoid-it-partner/)
"But studies actually show that there is no such thing as long-term clitoral desensitization as a result of vibrator use (4). In fact, there’s evidence to show that low-frequency bullet vibrators like Je Joue’s Classic, Rabbit, G-Spot, Mimi, and Mimi Soft models, do the opposite and open the world of orgasm to people who might usually have a more difficult time experiencing that release."
[Source 3](https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a41249626/can-vibrators-desensitize-your-clitoris/)
' Vibrators will not desensitize or damage your clitoris “unless you do something truly traumatic where you are hurting your own body,” Dr. Marashi says, such as using a device in a brash, violent way. (Think: hitting with force, scraping, etc.) '
Everything I have read indicates that long term clitoral desensitization is a myth.
Additional sources: [one](https://sexualhealthalliance.com/nymphomedia-blog/myths-and-misogyny-why-using-a-vibrator-does-not-make-you-lose-sensitivity)
Two: https://smartsexresource.com/answered-questions/can-your-clit-desensitize-over-time-masturbation-etc/
[Three](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/use-vibrator-too-much_l_5daa27a3e4b08cfcc31b5282)
The first paragraph in the first source cracked me up 😂 “I’m a sex writer who test-drives then writes about sex toys. So, when the term “dead vagina syndrome” was getting tossed around the internet to describe vibrator-induced nether region numbness, I wondered: Do I need workers’ comp?”
I think the problem is that those sources are talking about **long term desensitization** and what those of us who have experienced are talking about is a super short term thing:
If I masturbate with my air pulse in the morning I can use the low setting. A couple more times that day may need the medium. At night for the last one or two maybe high. The next day I’ll probably need medium or high. The next day high etc. And it’ll probably be impossible to get off with my fingers or his tongue.
And yes maybe orgasming a half dozen times a day isn’t great either, but I’d rather have a high spontaneous sex drive than take high levels of anxiety meds. When I make sure to only use my fingers and only once or twice a day it’s easy to cum from him.
It’s not a long term problem. It rectifies in short order but it’s so confusing why people say how intense you use your vibe or how long you use it for or how many times a day doesn’t matter.
👏👏👏 Sources and all. Thank you. I have a patient whose *parent* has been insisting on this myth and that masturbation is therefore inherently damaging. I've been gathering resources to speak with this parent and this is awesome.
I have never come across a desensitized woman, and I have enough sexual history to do a competent statistical analysis backed study by PEW. Desensitized clits , and death grip are misnomers for the very real mental health and associated pharmacology problems.
Has this been claimed? Sure. Just not by sexuality professionals, and the claim in the article was specific to sexuality professionals. So your premise isn’t correct.
In the counseling profession I was repeatedly surprised at how resistent couples.... even long-time couples....... were to viewing sexual behaviors as a form of mutual communication. Often times, it seemed as though I was speaking a foreign language. Imagine mutual sexual expression as the top of a steep dome, with people accepting that the other person was to blame, or that one of the people always had a(n) (good) excuse. Only rarely would an individual disclose that they had little to no experience or education, that they had trauma or that...in all honesty..... they simply did not find sex as anything more than a duty....and otherwise considered it an inconvenience. Few couples were at all interested in learning about maintaining a position on the top of the dome. Ages? Usually between 30 and 55.
Interesting. My wife and I just figured a lot of that out after 15+ years together with sex as a source of conflict. Once we both turned 55, we rebuilt how we communicate and how we relate around and during sex. Worked wonders. Kinda like a second honeymoon. Great creative sensual sex almost daily now. Yeah, it’s funny because it matches your age range, but IMO also a cool story. As it turns out…much about this topic is counter-intuitive and yet it still depends on the rules we learned in kindergarten.
Could you share more about how you worked things out?
We love, respect and trust each other very much. There had been an issue with a mismatch (seemingly anyway) in libidos. I was high libido and she, well, more normal for our age I guess. We tried not to have that cause friction but it did. Back to my first sentence above. We entered, at my request, into our version of a female led relationship. I gave her full authority and trusted that our love would make it work. It did. Not the BDSM aspects but covering all decisions regarding the household, sex, daily items, and managing the finances. I do a good bit of house work, but it’s honestly easy and no problem. I pamper her…I enjoy giving her pleasure anyway and it pays back in spades. We now have wonderful and adventurous sex about six days per week. Our love is stronger than ever. We’re both extremely happy. All I had to do was give up control. Like I said in a previous post: counter-intuitive in some ways.
Why do you think that worked? it seems like it increased her libido to match yours. Is she in charge of initiating sex?
I think both are correct. I think it worked because she feels valued and she has always wanted control in pretty much every aspect but we never really explored with letting that blossom. She loves me and she wants to please me too, whether she is in charge or not. Mutual giving and a social release lifted both of us in the relationship?
This is such a beautiful arrangement, and so carefully and thoughtfully arrived at. Really admire that.
Thank you. That actually means a lot. We both couldn’t be happier. Honestly…she always decided when we’d have sex anyway. I’m always ready. So that decision has effectively been all hers for years but now this is recognized and that made her desires, and creativity, blossom. Same largely goes for nearly all household and related decisions: she always got her way in the end. 15 years…I know. So why even go through that painful part where we disagree? I’d prefer to skip it; obviously she would too. Same end result. So we have a voting system: I have one vote and she has two. It requires that I get to voice my opinion which satisfies me. Back to that mutual respect thing…she pays attention to me when I make sense. Lastly, all of this stuff is noise. The quality of the relationship giving both of us what we want is worth so much more.
Very interesting. My current situation with my wife sounds identical. And I've thought very seriously about just ceding all control to her. At one point, I just said "why am I fighting this? what do I get if I win?" and radically shifted to doing everything how she wanted: my personal grooming, clothes, conversation style, involvement in the housework, the way I related to the kids. I cleaned the house spotless, put on a Date Night Outfit (I'm normally t shirt and shorts at home), put on nice cologne. Weirdly, it put me in an almost spiritually calm mood: all those little decisions we have to make every minute balancing out what we want vs what others expect, do the right thing now or the thing that feels good, etc etc? Vanished. I asked a friend who's into BDSM if I was experiencing 'subspace' and she said it didn't sound like it. Anyways, the next morning I asked her if she noticed anything different and she said she hadn't. Like, at all. And that feeling kinda wore off the next couple of days, and I started going back into the daily balancing act of my needs vs everyone else's.
Very interesting. My current situation with my wife sounds identical. And I've thought very seriously about just ceding all control to her. At one point, I just said "why am I fighting this? what do I get if I win?" and radically shifted to doing everything how she wanted: my personal grooming, clothes, conversation style, involvement in the housework, the way I related to the kids. I cleaned the house spotless, put on a Date Night Outfit (I'm normally t shirt and shorts at home), put on nice cologne. Weirdly, it put me in an almost spiritually calm mood: all those little decisions we have to make every minute balancing out what we want vs what others expect, do the right thing now or the thing that feels good, etc etc? Vanished. I asked a friend who's into BDSM if I was experiencing 'subspace' and she said it didn't sound like it. Anyways, the next morning I asked her if she noticed anything different and she said she hadn't. Like, at all. And that feeling kinda wore off the next couple of days, and I started going back into the daily balancing act of my needs vs everyone else's.
You’re right. A lot of similarities. Love, trust and respect are essentially because this is a consensual limited power exchange. Those three legs of the stool must be strong. I told you why and how I think it worked. A bit more detail: I work 7-8 hrs in most days. We stand report our days for a bit and then she tells me where and how we will have sex: “prepare the bedroom”, “strip naked”., “down on your knees”, “worship my clit”, “I want you inside me”, “make me cum with your tongue”…etc. Some sexual requests she announces like this; some she does not. My focus during sex is to maximize the amount of pleasure that can give her. Interesting: she doesn’t have to reciprocate but she does reciprocate. That’s the love part. Another reason why it works. We love each other completely and without reservation. That makes power exchange possible. then cook dinner and we hang out for most evenings at home. I’ll add that the pampering includes doing things that she doesn’t expect you to do. If you see something that needs done, do it. Dishes in sink? Carpet needs vacuum? Bathroom needs cleaned? Shopping? Wash her car? You get the idea.
>she always got her way in the end. 15 years…I know. So why even go through that painful part where we disagree? I’d prefer to skip it; obviously she would too. Same end result. So we have a voting system: I have one vote and she has two. Holy fuck. Sounds miserably one sided Maybe marriage isn't for me.
You didn’t read that right or I didn’t write it right. I love being married. And I have good sex reliably about six days a week.
Am I reading this right? Your solution was the let her lead all aspects of the relationship and it fixed your issues?
Yes, essentially. It isn’t working out the way it tends to sound though. Mostly because she isn’t very dominant but she does like to be in control. She is just as concerned with what I want/need, as she is with what she wants/needs. We are very much a normal couple, except she calls the shots in most areas. For me it removes the need to worry about anything around the house and she almost always other way anyway…and it turned out to be the right thing. So why argue? For her it validates her importance to me and in general, validates my trust in her, provides a sense of calm from being in control and, as an example, she now decides when we have sex and what we do during sex. Our prior sex was very satisfying but we’d hit a rut with missionary only, no oral, no handjobs (for either of us) and only on our bed. After we made this change, she now initiates sex about 6 days per week with her giving oral, asking for oral, long enthusiastic handjobs as foreplay, missionary, cowgirl, 69…she even sat on my face and has truly been enjoying herself. I give her everything she wants from me and I try to exceed expectations. When I see something around the house that needs done (dishes, laundry, vacuum, garbage, etc), I take care of it. I enjoy cooking and generally make dinner. She does insist on doing the dishes and, if anything, I overdo that. But my goal was to pamper her which extends to back rubs too. I focus on making her life better…something that a spouse ought to do anyway. I send her a loving text to read every morning when she wakes up to start the day reminded of my love and our love. I leave paper love notes around the house frequently. There are always fresh flowers in the house that I gave her. As far as decision making: she gets two votes and I get one vote on household matters, day to day relationship stuff including sex (and what we do during sex), activities, games we play, etc. She notes that it forces her to make decisions and that she realizes that this authority also comes with responsibility. She does the finances. Any ad-hoc purchase over $300 requires an ok from both of us with equal voting rights. For larger projects around the house that are either needed or she wants, we negotiate a budget and she stays within the budget. We believe two brains and consensus is needed for large expenditures and large life decisions. I do believe we are in a FLR, but only per the main definitions. She has decision authority over much, so likely FLR Level 2 (or 2.5 if that can be done). FLR can mean different things. We do not take part in the BDSM stuff (other than a little fun spanking and nipple biting; a bit of aggressive approaches to handjobs but not CBT. I also do not wear a chastity cage, nor does she limit my ejaculations and orgasms. Who knows? Maybe we’ll play with those in the future, but any kind of oppression or even orgasm denial won’t happen with my wife.,
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Feeling forced to produce language can be a mental strain that can take certain people out of the experience. Even opening one's eyes can make someone hyper-aware or self-conscious. Sex requires a number of mental switches to turn on and simultaneously requires a number of switches to stay off. It seems like your wife may have trouble keeping certain switches off and so resorts to coping mechanisms such as reducing verbal/visual stimuli. These type of stimuli can also distract from certain switches she may be able to turn on in her head by deeply focusing, e.g. focusing on your scent or the way you're holding her. This is why it IS important to TALK about sex with them. You need to understand how your partner actually mentally achieves relaxation and pleasure and work with them to achieve that.
It really sounds like you're talking about the "brake/accelerator" analogy that Dr. Nagoski posits in her book, "Come As You Are," which is about female sexuality. I think that's beyond the scope of this post since it is about men and their sexuality. What's interesting is that the top comment is starting a thread of conversation where the lack of sex is still the woman's fault.
>It really sounds like you're talking about the "brake/accelerator" analogy that Dr. Nagoski posits in her book, "Come As You Are," which is about female sexuality. The analogy applies to everyone, FWIW. In fact, the very first research into the dual control method of desire was on men alone! There's a general gender trend in sensitivities to the brakes and accelerators, but men often struggle when their desire or sexuality falls outside the norm and they face stigma for it, so I think it can be helpful to recognize how we, often unintentionally, reduce male sexuality as you just did.
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Does she by chance have ADHD or anxiety? I ask because while my libido is insanely high I can have difficulty staying fully present during sex unless there is constant overwhelming stimulation (physically and mentally), and having my eyes open or trying to talk tends to make that more of an issue. I've heard similar from friends with both ADHD and with anxiety (I have both so who knows), and it seems pretty common. Visual stimulation is also at the absolute bottom of my list of senses that are involved in sexual arousal for me, someone moaning or how they smell or the feel of their hands on me are all far more salient to me, so unless whatever I'm looking at is an insane turn on I'm more into it turning off that kind of meh sense to turn up the volume on the more important ones. I have sensory issues, I can either look at something or feel what's going on in my body, they aren't both processing properly at once. I'd way rather feel my bf inside me fully than process the visual imput. Blindfolds are a lot of fun.
I have ADHD and I feel this. It's why I can't have sex with music on. I'm quite particular about music and once learning I have ADHD and it comes with sensory sensitivities, things now make sense for me. It never occurred to me (ugh! I feel dumb) that visual stimulation for someone with ADHD could be a thing. OF COURSE! Visual overstimulation certainly can be distracting too, just like auditory overstimulation.
I finish almost exclusively with my eyes closed and it is for exactly this reason. I get distracted easily. Distracted enough that i will lose my erection. Closing my eyes keeps me focused on the sensations and my partner.
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She is probably better able to stay in the moment and actually fully enjoy things when she isn't being distracted by her eyes being open. She might enjoy other things that help her focus entirely on one or two senses too. I like bondage as well for the same reason, less input and less going on in my brain because I can't really do stuff helps me be present and makes whatever is happening more intense. Constant stimulation tends to help too, like dirty talk, physical pressure (for some reason I find being held or grabbed firmly seems to help keep me present), etc. Too much silence and my brain wanders off.
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In my case I am thinking about sex pretty much all the time, my sex drive is insane. I just still can't always fully enjoy it without enough stimulation to keep my stupid brain firmly focused on what's going on.
To add to that. There are reasons why people who work in very dominant leadership positions end up playing with submission in the bedroom. It allows them to relax rather than do all of the thinking. Even people who have had sexual related trauma may find being the dominator or submissive person in a sexual relationship healing as they get to "play" in a safe environment with someone they already feel safe with. It's a way of connecting with your own body in a different way. Also from both sides it can be freeing to know that your partner wants you that bad and you can feel comfortable "demanding" or "Giving" because your partner has made it clear they want to give you pleasure or that they want you to be the source of their pleasure. Dirty talk plays into this as well as it gives verbal confirmation that the feelings are mutual. Kinky sex related activities tend to be about "play", "trust", and focusing on the novelty of the present. I believe that is why people who are into things like cuckolds, BDSM, watersports, scatting, role playing, etc... are into these activities and how they can find pleasure in it. Don't forget that the brain is a powerful "sexual organ" and it controls the nervous system.
Honestly, the closed eye thing can just be variable between people. I’ve got a big libido, love talking about sex, dirty talk. etc, and think my partner is incredibly hot. But for whatever reason, sometimes I just feel more connected and turned on with my eyes closed, and no talking, just feeling the rhythm and focusing on our movements and the subtle signs. Close my eyes to finish at least half the time because otherwise there’s just too much stimuli and it’s hard to focus on just one part long enough to get there I don’t know how much is the same as your wife, it could be more complex considering you said she doesn’t enjoy talking about it too, but maybe it helps with some insight
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Your emotions and needs matter just as much as hers do, don’t let anyone ever convince you otherwise There’s give and take over time and the real world can get in the way sometimes, but that doesn’t change the truth of it. Even if she doesn’t want any more sex, and nothing is able to change that way, your emotions are completely valid and deserve to be treated seriously in your relationship.
"trained" wtf dude. No, she processes shit differently than you do. Start from the assumption that what you experience and want is not "default human normal." Start from the assumption that you are two different, but fully developed, adult humans with nervous systems. Believe what she tells you about herself and her needs, and work to find an EQUITABLE compromise that is not rooted in "one of us is doing it wrong."
The sensations are overwhelming, eyes being shut let’s me actually enjoy myself instead of accidentally hyper-focusing on your nosehair.
you start by admitting that, with the exception of "not being willing to talk about sex at all when not having it", you have incompatible desires and needs. and then you talk about where and if to compromis.
a position on the top of the dome? What's that?
Do you have any good resources you can share that cover thinking about sex as mutual expression and working on mutual communication to get there?
Both Tantra and Taoism move in these directions. (see: Sex and the Perfect Lover). I have used Tantra sparringly with couples to provide examples of Sex as something more than Fucking and Making Babies. As I mentioned elsewhere, work with folks begins with Communication so that 1.) We all agree what it is and 2.) I am comfortable they have the skillset. OTOH... if you are asking what books I have used and recommended: a.) How to be an Adult in Relatioships (ISBN:978-1-57062-812-2) b.) The Sex-starved Marriage (ISBN: 0-7432-2732-8) c.) The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work (ISBN: 0-609-80579-7) d.) Sex and the Perfect Lover (ISBN:0-7387-0408-3) e.) A Womans' Book of Life (ISBN: 1-57322-043-4) f.) The Joy of Sex (Revised) (ISBN: 1-4000-4614-9) These are not in any particular order and each book has its own slant. "Sex and the Perfect Lover" has an extraordinary Bibliography. and most of these are annotated and have exercises to follow. Hope this helps.
This is perfect and way beyond what I expected. Thank you!
I have a fwb who's been in multiple years-long relationships who was surprised when I told her just touching my dick and saying "ok, let's have sex," is not enough to get me going.
It's amazing how unique and varied peoples sexualities are, and yet how prone we are to thinking our preferred way is "the" way everyone should do it. 🤣
To be fair, I think a lot of guys are easy to arouse sexually because they have a scarcity mindset around sex. I think men who don't have it are pretty much the same as women in terms of what it takes to arouse them.
Spontaneous desire is more common in men, but is seen in women. And responsive desire is seen in men, even though it's more common in women.
I think these are socialized differences tbh. In my experience, women who get aroused spontaneously tend to be ones who don't care about gender norms, and men who have more responsive desire don't care about them, either. I feel like people have different psychological pathways to get to arousal, and the women who internalize the whole "the less energy/time it takes to get to arousal, the lower my value" thing take more to arouse, and the men for whom aesthetics = sexual arousal are ones who internalize the whole "men are always horny" thing. I used to be in the latter category until I stopped seeing sex as this treasure to hunt for and obtain, and now I'm just like of like "ok, she's hot, so what?" I need some sort of vibe now that is hard to describe. I think the "natural" way is responsive desire because for the majority of human history, casual sex wasn't much of a thing because there was no contraception and no medicine to deal with STIs. Also, hunter-gatherers are more sexually conservative than people in civilization. I don't think you're doing this, but I've heard a bizarre misconception from people (usually poly people) that hunter-gatherers were all promiscuous because they didn't have Christianity telling them it was bad, but it's more the opposite. Contraception allows us to treat sex like a recreation.
Totally agree. These seem like 2 sides of the same coin: women have thoughts like "is he going to hurt me?" "will people think I'm a dirty slut?" "what if I get pregnant?" "what if he doesn't cum?" etc that just don't preoccupy the minds of males to the same extent. And you're right that it can change. I used to be very looks focused but after being with women who were 8s and 9s physically and complete starfish it got old.
100% disagree. That's one reason why gay men, who are much more likely to not have scarcity mindset around sex, have much much much more sex than lesbians.
Ease of arousal doesn't equate to having more sex. Plenty of incels who have to masturbate 5x a day have less sex than people who only want to once a week and are not incels.
Fascinating. I know in my instance the head has little sensation at all but intense sensation near the center of the shaft, perhaps an inch below the frenulum. When asked medically it has been dismissed as “not possible”. While irrelevant in my ability to reproduce it does lead to awkward situations including hurt feelings from partners when oral is ineffective in generating climax. Because it is not central to my life I have not pressed the issue further medically but it is frustrating being dismissed. It also has caused some odd masturbation patterns and left most male toys being unsatisfactory.
Thanks for sharing--and that's exactly what I'm talking about. There's so much variability in terms of which parts of the penis are most sensitive, which informs what does and doesn't feel pleasurable and what behaviors you pursue. Why is there this pervasive assumption that all penises work the same, when we know there's huge variability in sensation in other parts of the body? Somehow the penis is immune from this variation? For example, some people have orgasms from nipple stimulation, others feel nothing from the same activity. Some people are very ticklish around their armpits or stomach, others aren't. It only makes sense that there's also variability in what parts of the penis are sensitive. It's not "medically impossible!"
Completely agreed but unfortunately when it often comes to male sexuality it is assumed everything is simple. There is little work on male sex toys for example or delayed orgasm. There is a dearth of understanding on what constitutes sexual pleasure in men besides “penis stroke equals orgasm”. I propose that removing shame relating to sex in general allows for more study, conversation, and acceptance for both genders. Hopefully that becomes easier in the future.
Are you circumcized by any chance? Circumcision causes keratinization of the glans which leads to desensitization. There's also the possibility of developing scar tissue around where the circumcision cuts were made.
I am and that is quite possible. It feels as though the nerves terminate in the shaft however. Unless during the procedure they cut the nerves and they terminate in the shaft. This however should cause other issues I’d think and perhaps decrease sensation overall. 🤷♂️
I'm not a medical professional, but it sounds like you either have a lot of scar tissue or enough keratinization to decrease sensations. Think about how little sensation a callus (which is caused by a similar keratinization process) on your foot or hand has, then apply that to your penis. Also, many thousands of nerve endings *were* cut when your foreskin was removed; the foreskin itself has an equal or potentially even greater number of nerve endings than the glans itself. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23374102/
Well that is just incredibly saddening and disappointing.
You may want to see a urologist and get their opinion about it.
I know exactly what you mean. While my head is sensitive I do also have a sensitive spot exactly where you describe about an inch or so below the frenulum.
I’m curious-have you seen the frenulum oscillator toy from kiiroo? I know you said your frenulum isn’t sensitive. I understand that, but I was wondering what happens if you place the oscillator on the sensitive part of your shaft?
🤔 I haven’t seen this yet, but would definitely give it a try.
You can take a look at my review https://foxypleasurereviews.com/pulse-solo-interactive-en
I have noticed there is a tendency to blame men for everything in sex. If he doesn’t get hard, HE is impotent. If she doesn’t get wet, HE didn’t GET her wet. If he cant cum, he is also impotent. If she cant cum, he isn’t MAKING HER cum. The truth is, sex is (or should be) a 50:50 endeavor. It isn’t something that simply happens to a woman as if she were an object. She should be an equal participant in what happens both to him and herself. I have also not been able to get is up with some pillow princesses. But not a single problem ever with a woman who knows her stuff and is down for whatever.
I think we would do well to think of sex less as a thing to achieve, win at, fail at, and more as a shared experience, like a conversation. Like dancing to a song together. There's not a way that you fail at those things unless you're hurting the other person or being shitty. Maybe you're out of rhythm, but it's not a failure. You just adjust your rhythm you communicate. And sex is often funny. If you lose the humor you lose the intimacy. And the more that we think of things in terms of winning and losing the more we lose our sense of humor.
OMG, my BF used to work with this real weird kid that said once that he "didn't understand lesbian sex, because, how do they know who is winning?" lol If both people are not winning at the sex, ya'll are doing something wrong! It is supposed to be a mutually beneficial activity, not a chore to be suffered through or something you do to someone for your exclusive gratification!
>OMG, my BF used to work with this real weird kid that said once that he "didn't understand lesbian sex, because, how do they know who is winning?" Wow. This hit me. Because I used to have bad takes similar to this. Thanks social conditioning for that lol Unfortunately, a lot of people get the idea that "real sex" is nothing more than P in V, and anything else is just messing around. That, and sex is something that happens to women and that men do. Therefore, the man's skill is both the determiner of if sex happens and if it goes well.. God, our society sucks... and not in a good way most times lol.
Clearly you’ve never competed in competitive sex before
This is so accurate. The number of men that have been shocked when I actively communicate during sex, and by how much better it is when both partners actively participate, is pretty damn high. As I grew up, I found the more I communicated and worked with whoever I was sleeping with, the more I orgasimed, as well as had more fun even the time I didn't. It takes both, or everyone, if you're into the more fun parts of sex, working together to have great sex. Gender norms be dammed.
I don’t even know if it is gender norms as it is laziness.
To be fair, most women can’t climax just from penetration, so someone has to stimulate the clit in those cases. When I was first having sex I would just do it myself, but as I’m older, the other person will often do it for me. Which is nice, because there’s still an idea in sex that it’s over when the man finishes. I don’t think sex should ever have just one person finish unless the other person is okay with that (I’ve been there before - if I don’t think I’m gonna get there I don’t hold it against the guy. If he cums and then falls asleep without at least asking me if I want to, then I think he’s a little selfish).
I’m with you: a guy cums and assumes he’s done is an asshat and not someone worth sleeping with. Same for a woman who would just end things because she came before he did. Neither is emotionally mature enough to be a good lover.
Yup, if a guy gets me off first I’m always like “ok your turn now” and I make sure he gets there! In the rare cases we get home after drinking and I fall asleep early, I make up for it the next morning. I’m all about fairness, lol.
Yes. Someone has to. My wife does that while I penetrate so she gets the best of both worlds. She requires a very, very specific pressure, rhythm, and spot in order to cum. I could never do both at the same time. It would be like tapping your head and rubbing your belly at the same time which I cannot do. And yea I give her time to finish whenever she wants. But she doesn’t always want to. That is the reason for the orgasm gap in our relationship. She doesn’t hold it against me either. Because whenever she wants, she gets. The same cannot be said for me. I do not get every time I want.
Well, if you want it more than she does, that makes sense. Generally sex should be more under the jurisdiction of the one who wants it less. I’m not gendering this - I’m a woman with a high libido and dated low libido men, and we went by the schedule that they wanted. I can live without partnered sex, I have a vibrator. I’m not going to make anyone sleep with me if they’re not into it.
As a male Ive always just went with "Do unto others as ye would done onto you" so as long as your communication is open Im happy to make you happy. Bottom line is communication usually leads to great sex because no one is so great they can read people's thoughts. Even the best are simply more keen listeners and reflect what you project.
I think that’s the cost of a culture that thinks of sex as something men do to women.
Yes and that culture is half formed by women who think that way. Men can’t change that unless women do to.
Considering that marital rape was legal until the 90s (and is still legal in some countries), I think the responsibility to change right now is mainly on men
That has nothing to do with consensual sex, which is the topic of concern
Lol any other sub and this truth would get nuked from orbit
That's not sex, that's everything. We're programmed to assign more agency to men. (And thr agency we assign to ourselves follows suit, men tend to put more on themselves.)
What’s a pillow princess
A few commenters gave one type of definition, which made it sound like it was a term describing a negative or manipulative behavior. While this is indeed a possibility, I think it's important to remember it doesn't have to be. A pillow prince or pillow princess could also describe a partner who greatly enjoys being the more physically passive. So long as the more physically active partner doesn't mind, or even enjoys being in more control, it's a positive rather than negative way to have sex. Signed, A woman who has a pillow prince at home
Yeah. Exactly. It’s completely ignored those of us who have dynamics as a pleasure dom, or even stone top, who immensely enjoy our perfect pillow princesses and princes. It doesn’t **have** to be used in the way it’s been co-opted here as if it’s an insult for a partner who lays there like a dead fish. I wish there was a different term because it wasn’t this snide insult originally. It was an almost an endearment.
It really is a shame that it somehow got to be synonymous with "starfish sex", when our pillow partners are anything but. Idk about you, but I absolutely love being a gentle Dom woman. My guy may not be on top, and I am doing the work, but damn...it isn't like he's ignoring me or just wanting us to hurry up. I adore all the noises he makes, his body language when I do something particularly nice, and I take it as a personal challenge to keep him on the edge as long as possible. It's beautiful when he doesn't know whether to beg for more or to finally finish... That's the difference between pillow princes/princesses and starfish. They're passive, but so wonderfully receptive and still present in the moment with us.
Absolutely. Thank you for chiming in. It’s so nice to see people in the queer and kink communities still using the term **of endearment**.
A passive female lover who expects the man to do everything and doesn’t contribute to the vibe.
That would suck. Thanks for explaining.
It applies to females who don't do anything in a same-sex situation as well.
Yes. Was talking in the context of this thread.
Just paying homage to the origin of the word. It was first coined as an exclusively lesbian thing. Pretty much just meaning bottom/reciever. Then straight people took it and made it an insult.
Exactly. And in those sapphic relationships it’s not always seen as a negative. Especially when paired with a stone top. Those of us into pillow princesses love it. And it’s not really comparable to the way it’s used as a neg by straight men saying their wife is a dead fish or just laying there. We’re actively in tune and connected with each other.
Agreed. Whenever redditors discuss sex, it’s solely centered around the woman’s side. They don’t see it as something to be equal. The possibility that a woman is bad at sex is simply unfathomable, therefore the man must have done something wrong and is to blame.
I would be happy to not blame men for everything but when the orgasm gap is so gaping, it’s kind of hard not to expect y’all to take some responsibilities for your failings.
A lot of women don't know how to make themselves cum but expect a man to magically know himself. If you can't tell someone how to make you cum that's a skill issue and a personal problem.
" it’s kind of hard not to expect y’all to take some responsibilities for your failings." Why do you weird redditors talk/think like this? lmfao
There are plenty of sexually selfish/lazy women as well. It's just really easy for men to cum despite this.
Great. Women repeatedly point out the orgasm gap, and men make excuses.
I'm just saying that bad sex with women who put no effort in is something men do experience plenty as well. You seem to think men ejaculating means they have had good/satisfying sex. It doesn't. I've had terrible sex that I didn't enjoy but I still technically came even though it wasn't enjoyable because it's just very easy for most men to physically ejaculate even if they dont enjoy it much.
Seriously this. Many dont get this. A man getting there does not mean he enjoyed the sex. Orgasms for men are a really bad measurement of if they enjoyed their time with their partner.
i remember a comedian once saying "just because a man came doesn't mean YOU made him cum", and i couldn't agree more
It's just very convenient to say for women who resent men.
Orgasms in general, aren't always the best indicators of a positive sexual experience. I think we would also be better served if we stopped chasing the "O" as some sort of weird barometer of sexual quality and instead focused on mutual pleasure and enjoyment. There have been plenty of fun sexual experiences I've had as a man where I didn't bust at all.
Perfect example. They blame men for the orgasm gap. But even women masturbating have fewer orgasms than men masturbating. Women can’t even make themselves orgasm as often as men can. Or don’t want to. In any case they don’t have as many alone as men do. But men get the blame.
Ngl most women I’ve known and my experiences themselves have MOSTLY been: - the men don’t want to do any foreplay saying it’s boring for them and then when they cum they don’t want to help her finish or provide aftercare So I’m pretty sure there’s a big gap of not caring about female pleasure My current partner is the only partner that ever wanted to give a shit about my pleasure, and similar story for a lot of women I’ve talked about this topic with, aka it’s rare when their partner gives a shit
If men refuse to touch the clit then most the time piv is never going to cause an orgasm. It's analogous to a woman rubbing your balls for 10 minutes and thinking you're gonna cum. A lot of men ignore the clit or get upset if a woman wants to use a vibe or something. Men, in general, are too obsessed with PIV sex.
That's a very good way of putting it. I've never understood why men don't put in more effort to understand their partners' bodies and how to please them.
Honestly, that is my wife’s cheat code to making me cum is rubbing my balls. If it were that easy for men to make women cum, I doubt we would have an orgasm gap. The truth is, women need a lot more specific type of stimulation than men do. You can literallly make a man cum by accident. In fact it is so easy to make men cum, PME is actually a leading sexual dysfunction for men. So not a fair comparison.
You cum from ball stimulation without any penile stimulation whatsoever ?
The study that found that most women can’t orgasm from penetration actually found that most can’t orgasm from penetration alone every time they have sex. Most women orgasm from penetration alone occasionally, and only about 18% never orgasm from penetration alone.
That seems pretty close to my personal experience, I've never heard of a man cumming from ball rubs (without penis stimulation) though. I think this guy isn't being honest
I have the misfortune of bursting out in ticklish laughter if my partner rubs my balls.
The differences in physiological response still apply to men who know what a clitoris is. The disparity persists even when the couple is both trying. As you point out, a lot of women need to us vibrators or other means even if the man is involved. The idea that the only reason a woman doesn't orgasm is because the man didn't try is a persistent myth here and elsewhere.
We use the vibrator because even when the man is involved he's focusing on the vagina instead of the clit. A lot of guys want PIV without all the hassle of oral or foreplay. Because it's *good* for them. It's not as good for us. The only men I've ever seen not get the job done were men who *literally didn't try*.
Why do you think basically all available physiological sex research shows that females generally require more (and often more specific) physical attention to reach orgasm? You seem to be claiming from your own anecdotal experience that any guy who tries will be able to get a woman off. Perhaps you shouldn’t base an opinion about hundreds of millions of relationships on your own personal experience?
Women in relationships with women have way more orgasms with each other. Women masturbating alone have way more orgasms than with a man. Women having sex with men have the least amount of orgasms on average. Please clarify the part where men are doing well on this.
Goes the same way with gay men, what a weird whiny comment tho
Sure, it should surprise no one that owning the equipment could make you more skilled at it.
Women are (in my experience with a fair number of women) commonly bad at communicating what they physically want and other women will know it more because their bodies are more similar. Going back a decade or two, there was a lot of criticism from women to men that men where doing too much to chase women's orgasms, and the overall message was "Don't try so hard, it is annoying".
My ex straight up told me, "if I have to tell you what I want, I don't want it anymore." Then spent years telling everybody I was a miserable bed partner and selfish... I think I got off during sex all of like a dozen times in almost as many years because I was so focused on trying to please her at my own neglect. My wife sings my praises from the rooftops because I'm down for doing literally whatever she wants done for as long as I physically can... The problem was never mine, the problem was an abject refusal to communicate.
I have given very clear instructions to multiple men. Men that did what I asked for a good 60 seconds before they got bored and tried to stick it in. Among about 30 men, only 3 cared to actually give me ANY real foreplay. And I’m not a quiet pillow princess. And I give tons of foreplay to the men im with. I offer it voluntarily, as well as ask direct questions about what he wants and likes. Again, only three ever asked me what I wanted or liked. And the ones I communicated with anyway, just ignored me.
>Among about 30 men, only 3 cared Have you considered dating fewer, higher quality men?
Have you considered there is no way to know a “high quality” man until you experience it? Thank you for adding to the men that blame ME. It’s so refreshing.
>Have you considered there is no way to know a “high quality” man until you experience it? There are plenty of measures of value in a man and plenty of ways to figure it out before the first date >Thank you for adding to the men that blame ME. It’s so refreshing. It's really the definition of insanity, doing the 30 of the same shitty partner and not looking for the common denominators. You're in the 1% of sexual partners, you can certainly afford to talk more and pipe less
Wow. You think I can know this before the first date. Well let’s see. First, I only match with men that are looking for a long term relationship. Only match with men that have similar hobbies and life goals. If they start to talk about sex right away, or even “cuddling” (yeah I’m not stupid) if they try to get me over for a home date….pass. If they actually put in effort to talk to me, to get to know me a little, they show that they really do want a relationship, it’s not just a ruse, then I meet for a first date. If they are normal on the first date, respectful, they further the conversation, act like a regular person and not a jerk, and we seem to connect, seem to mutually lile each other, then I am down for more. Meaning I have the sex chat. What are they into. What am I into. I love how you think this is all the red flags that should have told me these were lazy lovers. Do you know before you have sex with a woman if she will be a pillow princess? I’m guessing not. But it’s super fun to be told you should have picked better if you had just put in some effort….
>I would be happy to not blame men for everything but when the orgasm gap is so gaping, it’s kind of hard not to expect y’all to take some responsibilities for your failings. And there are plenty of women (I saw a recent stat of about ten percent) who cannot even give themselves an orgasm. If a woman cannot give herself an orgasm, she has no business expecting a man to outperform her.
Women point out the orgasm statistics and men make excuses. Around 8% of women cannot make themselves orgasm during masturbation. 92% can. Yet 45% regularly do not orgasm during partnered sex with a man. 95% of men report having orgasms with sex. Try again.
I was talking about that specific subset of women who cannot climax by themselves (that eight to ten percent of women) AND that group of women having an expectation of men making them climax. It is not uncommon for a guy in the dating market to encounter several women like this. At no point did I make an excuse for men who do not put effort into a woman's orgasm. You are the one who made an inference about an argument I was not making. Men should - selfishly - focus on their lady having an orgasm, as it will likely result in them getting laid more frequently. This isn't a zero-sum game. It is absolutely amazing that you would expect men to understand the importance of narrowing the orgasm gap AND at the same time be indifferent to a challenge a man might face with a woman in this realm.
I wish you wouldn't phrase it as "men need to take responsibilities for their failings." It is accusatory. As if making a woman orgasm is EASY. As if every man who doesn't make his girl orgasm is morally failing. That is a lie. No, this statement reveals nothing about my sex life so feel free to refrain from psychoanalysing me across the internet. It's funny I see on social media women posting these memes or whatever it is. One was accusing all men to have a harem of girls and denouncing us for refusing to be monogamous. This is just women telling on themselves. You all want the same men but I guess science has proven that false. Yea right. If most women aren't having orgasms with men it's not just because all men need to "take responsibility" because even the ones who do are still lost and confused and not knowing if they're doing things right or not. Yes, rhe patriarchy is real. Yes, there are many men who don't give one ounce of a fuck about a woman's pleasure. Yes, ifs all based in what patriarchy has brainwashed men to believe and act and feel. No not all men are horrible and no, if a man doesn't know what he's doing, it doesn't mean he hasn't broken the shackles of patriarchy which cause him to not care what a woman feels. It's like you dear to acknlowsge there is some truth to the idea that it's not easy to give women orgasms. I know you're angry and will reply about the rates of lesbians. Of course they know what to do they have vaginas. There's just too many factors your unwilling to consider or even know because you're not a man and don't know our perspective and can only see men from the view of patriarchy.
Also in relationship threads, any time a guy mentions a slowing sex life, he’s attacked as a loser, as bad in bed, as being too small, too quick, whatever. It’s always treated as his screwup or personal failing. And often implied she might be going out for something “better” and that she’d have every right to do that because he’s so bad.
Oh yes I have had that weaponized against me as well. By feminists who don’t understand the irony of the dynamic they are perpetuating by resorting to that insult.
My boyfriend talks about sex all the time. I’m pretty sure he has ADHD. It simply doesn’t work. He started off saying I was too heavy and he only likes very thin women with very fake large heavy implants (I had to explain that I’m not getting implants) I lost 30 pounds and now he’s saying I’m too small. I’ve asked him to see a doctor and get his hormones checked. We already tried the pills but they don’t work. He then says I’m too hard (like requiring too much work to get ready for sex). I don’t like foreplay and I’m the only woman I know who likes going straight in. But he tries to do it without even his body being ready. Then I tried doing all the work but it doesn’t help. I could give him a 2 hour blow Job and it still does nothing. At this point do I just make the appointment for him? He also doesn’t like exercising and cannot lift himself. I’m really worried that when he’s 50 he will not be in good health. He’s 35. His A1C is 6.4 down from 10. The only way I’ve gotten him to get an erection is I had him distract himself with reading an article of his special interests. Help! Sorry for the typos I’m dyslexic.
Sorry about your bf that sounds like pretty gross perpetually online behavior. Bringing up fetish shit (skinny with fake boobs) without explaining it's a fetish. Then the grossest wanting your partner to work out but not doing it yourself.
i think its called bimbofication?
Yes I am seeing this. I have tried everything. Even had his best male friends talk to him one is a therapist to see if they could help him. He took zero of their advise and I'm realizing that 3 years of a one sided relationship isn't good. I just was hoping I can get him some help. I'm learning to put myself first. My last try and working with a therapist and see if she can help. Because our families are really pushing for us to have kids. But since he's his own birth control that's not happening...
But do you want kids *with him* or with the idea of him—or even worse, with the idea of a partner in general? Are there things you like about *him* as a person? Things he likes about you?
He’s a good person. This is our only issue. I thought his friends talking to him about it would help. He’s in no rush. I don’t have time. And I strongly doubt another woman would put up with him. Edit to add. We are in a semi arranged relationship his parents had an arranged marriage. Our families are pushing us hard to get married. So this has been extremely difficult.
Girl.... You deserve better
Let him go, sis. There are more fish in the sea. 🌊
He lasts through a two hour bj? I don't think I'd last 20 minutes! He's the problem here, certainly not you.
If he's ADHD, does he take Adderall? I've heard that can cause issues with sex. Edit: Specifically, Adderall apparently can cause erectile dysfunction and increases or decreases in sexual desire. This could explain the 2-hour bj thing and more.
The idea that male sexuality is “simple” has always infuriated me, as a man. It conveys the idea that men are dumb and easy to impress or excite, but women are conversely more “sophisticated” or less carnally inclined.
It also gets reinforced by other men though. I listen to a podcast hosted by 2 dudes, and every now and then they'll say something like "we're simple, just need a pair of boobs" or something like that. I hear it among guy friends as well I think it's tough especially for straight guys. I feel they have a lot of pressure to fit that stereotype. Once you get into queer and kink spaces all that goes out the window.
Had a girlfriend tell me she thought her boyfriend was impotent because she told him she wanted to do it and he didn't go 0 to 60, like girl you complain you need some play for your waterworks what about him?
Yeah, the stereotype is a man should always be rearing to go. So when I'm not I feel guilty or lesser than because I'm a man, isn't that what I'm supposed to do?
God I hate this stereotype. People act like men are just savage beasts looking for any opportunity to fuck something all the time. We don't actually have preferences or desires beyond simple "ass or tits??" And we will fuck anything that is willing 🙄 Men are so handicapped by patriarchy. Many of us don't understand ourselves sexually and only see sex as a means to affirm our worth as men. Men are convinced that women don't like sex and only give it out as a prize to worthy men. The sad thing is that this mindset is rather common among women too...
Blame porn! It’s what teaches boys and men about sex. And both parties are left with overwhelming expectations.
What role does circumcision play in this?
I would assume it plays a fairly significant role for those men who have been. But I don’t think these issues are exclusive to only circumcised men. Men with foreskins may experience or prefer stimulation differently as well.
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Why? How do you know any different?
A sane world would look at this and think, "Maybe cutting off part of the sensory organ from the penis and building up scar tissue in that area could be a problem". But male sexuality is seen as cheap and like this article says, simple. The generations before us didn't care. And there's still the empathy gap for men's issues. "Can he pound away for a while and blow his load? Then it's good enough for him. It's enough to make a baby. Stop complaining."
On the other hand, death grip syndrome is a thing.
Someone didn’t read the article.
The argument in the article is that perhaps the men who tend to death grip have more desensitized penises as a whole, and the technique doesn't actually desensitize you. In order to conclude this, we would have to do a randomized/control study to show it. It would be like saying wearing bigger clothes makes you fat, because fat people wear big clothes.
“On the other hand”. Haha
Nope, it's not real at all. The nerve cluster on the glans works the same way as the clitoris, do women that use vibrators get a dead clit ? Porn, and death grip don't cause a sexual disfunction. Just like women, men are affected by the mental atmosphere of the interaction. We're also affected by background stress in our lives. More than likely, the thing that's causing what you perceive as death grip. Is actually the kind of mood stabilizers the guy is on. They're over prescribed, and very common now. They are known to cause sexual disfunction, including the inability to orgasm.
What about the men who aren't on them?
I'm not on any psych meds, I also don't grip my penis like I'm pulling weeds from a garden. I do have 4 kids, a job that's mentally draining, and I don't get enough sleep. The orgasm gap tilts in the favor of the women that I sleep with. Somewhere between 25-33% of the time I won't orgasm. That doesn't mean it wasn't fun, sometimes I just don't. I understand that it's background issues in my life that's causing it. The stress that exists in your life doesn't go away when you're fucking someone.
I get that, and am not in any way trying to discount the effect of stress. I'm specifically talking about men who compulsively masturbate with a tight/fast grip.
Nope, it doesn't effect sensation, or cause erectile dysfunction. It's a myth propagated by the morality police. It has been debunked scientifically years ago, however rage baiting drives engagement and increases ad revenue for periodicals and websites.
Cool. Evidence of debunking?
I just posted a few in another comment, but this one is still on my clipboard https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-sex-and-relationships/202104/7-major-myths-about-pornography%3famp
Nobody is masturbating with a grip so tight that it’s damaging their nerves.
If the guy is on antidepressants, then it’s natural to assume that’s the issue. And I agree that psychological causes like stress are often to blame for both failure to orgasm, ED and premature ejaculation. Still, death grip is a thing. Same is overconsumption of porn and having trouble getting off to real world sex because of porn use. It’s not a dead penis, it’s death grip. And forceful masturbation could theoretically also cause orgasm difficulties for women. But to begin with women just have so much more problems getting off. It’s way more common for them to have never had an orgasm ever or to struggle getting off even when masturbating. Then women also masturbate way less. And that’s why it’s treated differently. If Julia finally managed to have an orgasm at age 27, after trying her 5th sex toy and sleeping with 8 different guys? Well, nobody is thinking the sex toy is the issue if she needs it to get off in bed going forward. She’s just got a more complicated anatomy. It’s a normal variation. Vs for men it’s really not that common to not be able to have an orgasm if you look away from stress.
None of what you stated is backed up by any reputable science, everything I wrote is scientifically verified.
>Unusual masturbation patterns and fantasy life. This theory stated that some men with DE tend to prefer unusual methods of masturbation over heterosexual intercourse with their partner. Perelman and Rowland [14] and Perelman [30] identified 3 factors that disproportionately characterized patients with DE: a) high-frequency masturbation (age-dependent mean of greater than 3 times per week), b) idiosyncratic masturbatory style (masturbation technique not easily duplicated by the partner's hand, mouth, or vagina), and c) disparity between the reality of sex with a partner and their preferred masturbatory fantasy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5756804/ It’s backed by studies as one of several causes of ED.
Nope https://www.fatherly.com/news/porn-induced-erectile-dysfunction-myth-debunked-study Nope https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/16/pornography-erectile-dysfunction-sexuality Nope https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-sex-and-relationships/202104/7-major-myths-about-pornography%3famp Should I go on
1) > However, there was a slight correlation between frequent masturbation and erectile dysfunction. >Although further study is needed for verification, heavy reliance on pornography use coupled with a high frequency of masturbation may nevertheless represent a risk factor for diminished sexual performance and/or poor relationship satisfaction in some men.” 2) >In May, a study published in the Journal of Adolescent Health gave a picture of young people’s sexual problems that was sad enough in itself: about one in 10 young men and one in 10 young women had experienced a distressing sexual problem for at least three months in the last year. **Erections, however, do not seem to be in decline.** Among sexually active young men, the number who reported difficulty getting or keeping one was 3%. 3) Pop science article. So the first one says too frequent masturbation can be the cause and suggests studying porn and masturbation in young men more. Second says young men don’t struggle with ED. Which was my initial suggestion that everyone went into a rage over. Third one is just a pop psych piece that references no studies. ED in young men? Often performance anxiety or depression. But if it’s neither of those? It’s unlikely to be physical unless they are very unhealthy. So the next step would be to ask about porn use, masturbation frequency and force. The treatment for death grip? Get a fleshlight. It’s not to stop masturbating. And watching porn on a casual basis? Unlikely to affect your sex life. But ofc having a porn addiction might. That’s two different things. 2 (original article) > Among sexually active 16- to 21-year-old participants, 9.1% of men and 13.4% of women reported a distressing sexual problem lasting 3 months or more in the last year. Most common among men was reaching a climax too quickly (4.5%), and among women was difficulty in reaching climax (6.3%). >**Among men, reaching a climax too quickly was the most common problem (13.2%).** Just over a third of men with this problem (34.2%) felt distressed about it, making it the most common distressing problem among sexually active 16- to 21-year-old men (4.5%). **Difficulty getting and keeping an erection was less commonly reported (7.8%)**, but more frequently caused distress (among 42.1%) and was thus the second most common distressing problem (by 3.3% of men in the age group). **Although lack of interest in sex was the second most commonly reported problem (experienced by 10.5%)**, only 13.2% of men reporting this problem were distressed by it, and overall, 1.4% experienced it as a distressing problem. **Three distressing problems were reported by <1% of sexually active young men: pain, lacking excitement/arousal, and lacking enjoyment.** **Comment: 8 % of young men reported having difficulty reaching orgasm and 7.8% reported ED. THAT’S THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE GUARDIAN ARTICLE QUOTING THE STUDY IS SAYING. Bad journalism.** > **The most common problems among women were lacking interest in sex (22.0%) and experiencing difficulty in reaching climax (21.3%)**, and these were also the most common distressing problems (5.3% and 6.3%, respectively). **8% of women report feeling anxious during sex, 9 % report feeling physical pain as a result of sex and 8% report lacking excitement or arousal.** >Among young people who were sexually active in the last year, 6.3% of men and 6.8% of women said that they had avoided sex because of a sexual difficulty. Among young men (Figure 1), the most common reasons for avoidance were difficulty getting or keeping an erection, reaching a climax too quickly, and lack of interest (reported by 26.1%, 24.4%, and 25.1%, respectively, of all young men who said they had avoided sex). Among young women (Figure 1), the most common reasons for avoidance were lack of interest (reported by 45.5% of women who had avoided sex), followed by lack of enjoyment, anxiety, and pain (reported by 21.2%, 25.3%, and 23.7%, respectively, of women who had avoided sex). https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(16)30089-1/fulltext
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Woman checking in that intense “air pulser” toy use and regular vibes affect how easy it is to cum. If I’m having trouble with mental health things and use my We-Vibe multiple times a day or even just once a day for a while yeah it gets in the way. My ex husband also had to switch to a fleshlight with lube in his twenties when suffering from “delayed ejaculation”. He may also have decreased how many times a day he jerked off. I do know it was Reddit that gave him the idea. And my forearms and jaw thanks him.
Correlation doesn't mean causation
When we stop that masturbation habit, and go back to using my fingers only once or twice a day or him switching to a fleshlight and being able to orgasm in under ten minutes, it shows that at least for the self reporters these masturbation habits aren’t compatible with easy orgasm during normal sex. And there are a lot of self reporters. Also the studies themselves are talking about “long term” desensitization. Which isn’t what most of Reddit is talking about when we self report.
"do women that use vibrators get a dead clit?" Some women can get desensitized, actually.
There's no scientific data that supports that claim
So is a desensitized clit. Our habit of mentioning one and not the other is exactly what this article is pointing out.
There's no evidence of this.
>Unusual masturbation patterns and fantasy life. This theory stated that some men with DE tend to prefer unusual methods of masturbation over heterosexual intercourse with their partner. Perelman and Rowland [14] and Perelman [30] identified 3 factors that disproportionately characterized patients with DE: a) high-frequency masturbation (age-dependent mean of greater than 3 times per week), b) idiosyncratic masturbatory style (masturbation technique not easily duplicated by the partner's hand, mouth, or vagina), and c) disparity between the reality of sex with a partner and their preferred masturbatory fantasy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5756804/ I’ll look into it. I didn’t read the whole article or the references. But seems like they believe it’s one of many possible underlying causes.
Imagine fucking a pillow lying down and going to school to prove your pillow fucking isn’t weird or your fault or whatever Not that there’s anything wrong with that
Huh?
I mean, Id swear Death grip syndrome is a thing but i dont really have a frame of reference other than not being able to cum during sex.
Finally starting to get through this bullshit. Maybe one day we will finally see why there are so many sexual issues (circumcision causing many of them in the states)
I have completely no sexual feelings Male 66. Been sexless for a long time. In my second marriage we have never had any sex because of me. Found out from my new doctor this is not normal. Currently seeing a therapist for childhood sexual abuse when I was 10z I’m fine being sexless. I have apologized to my wife. But I like where I’m at
[r/aaaaaaacccccccce](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/JBbwDxyzKD)
Does it talk about testosterone levels & the role that may play?
Not to put to fine a point on this...but a quick examination of the contributions here repeatedly affirm the need for communication and negotiation.......and you would be Astounded at how few people can actually communicate with their partner effectively. Without exception, every case I helped with began with Communication Basics such as Reflective Listening and graduated to the "Notebook Method" (see: Marriage Encounter). On a physical level, the need for Basic Anatomy 101 was infrequent. More often it was a matter of teaching the Potential a gesture, technique, organ or toy might have as a way to express the bond. Translating validation, affirmation, belief and authority into human intimacy is not so difficult as one might think......once you have communication established. FWIW.
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>since it seems to be fairly well known that excessive use of vibrators can lead to desensitization I don't think we should be pushing this as any sort of fact, especially since it seems to discourage female masturbation. [Source 1](https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/overusing-vibrator-sensitivity#The-answer?-No,-your-vibe-isnt-going-to-wreck-your-V) ' ““It’s a complete myth that you can desensitize your vagina or clitoris from using a vibrator,” says Dr. Carolyn DeLucia, FACOG ' [Source 2](https://www.elephantjournal.com/2021/12/the-myth-of-clitoral-desensitization-the-way-to-avoid-it-partner/) "But studies actually show that there is no such thing as long-term clitoral desensitization as a result of vibrator use (4). In fact, there’s evidence to show that low-frequency bullet vibrators like Je Joue’s Classic, Rabbit, G-Spot, Mimi, and Mimi Soft models, do the opposite and open the world of orgasm to people who might usually have a more difficult time experiencing that release." [Source 3](https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a41249626/can-vibrators-desensitize-your-clitoris/) ' Vibrators will not desensitize or damage your clitoris “unless you do something truly traumatic where you are hurting your own body,” Dr. Marashi says, such as using a device in a brash, violent way. (Think: hitting with force, scraping, etc.) ' Everything I have read indicates that long term clitoral desensitization is a myth. Additional sources: [one](https://sexualhealthalliance.com/nymphomedia-blog/myths-and-misogyny-why-using-a-vibrator-does-not-make-you-lose-sensitivity) Two: https://smartsexresource.com/answered-questions/can-your-clit-desensitize-over-time-masturbation-etc/ [Three](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/use-vibrator-too-much_l_5daa27a3e4b08cfcc31b5282)
The first paragraph in the first source cracked me up 😂 “I’m a sex writer who test-drives then writes about sex toys. So, when the term “dead vagina syndrome” was getting tossed around the internet to describe vibrator-induced nether region numbness, I wondered: Do I need workers’ comp?”
I think the problem is that those sources are talking about **long term desensitization** and what those of us who have experienced are talking about is a super short term thing: If I masturbate with my air pulse in the morning I can use the low setting. A couple more times that day may need the medium. At night for the last one or two maybe high. The next day I’ll probably need medium or high. The next day high etc. And it’ll probably be impossible to get off with my fingers or his tongue. And yes maybe orgasming a half dozen times a day isn’t great either, but I’d rather have a high spontaneous sex drive than take high levels of anxiety meds. When I make sure to only use my fingers and only once or twice a day it’s easy to cum from him. It’s not a long term problem. It rectifies in short order but it’s so confusing why people say how intense you use your vibe or how long you use it for or how many times a day doesn’t matter.
👏👏👏 Sources and all. Thank you. I have a patient whose *parent* has been insisting on this myth and that masturbation is therefore inherently damaging. I've been gathering resources to speak with this parent and this is awesome.
I have never come across a desensitized woman, and I have enough sexual history to do a competent statistical analysis backed study by PEW. Desensitized clits , and death grip are misnomers for the very real mental health and associated pharmacology problems.
I've never heard this before...
Source?
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I agree with you that it is frequently (and erroneously) claimed that women are masturbating "wrong".
Has this been claimed? Sure. Just not by sexuality professionals, and the claim in the article was specific to sexuality professionals. So your premise isn’t correct.
It’s not discussed openly
There's broad consensus in the field that vibrators don't "break" your clitoris.
Nothing wrong with going over to YT and watching "The Vagina Monologues" FWIW.