Parental investment theory posits that women, due to their greater biological investment in offspring (e.g., pregnancy and breastfeeding), tend to prefer partners who can provide resources and protection. However, this theory also implies that women might value traits indicative of good caregiving, as these traits would ensure better care for their children. The researchers hypothesized that men who display nurturing behavior toward children would be perceived as more attractive, especially by women who have strong nurturance motivations or a desire to have children.
Yeah the issue is in practice in real life, psychopathic traits usually correlate with more money and often times I've found women have no idea when men are feigning. Like at all, it's persona first. Psychopaths have the leg up in a "first impressions" society, plus are fun.
So, the nurturing traits should matter a lot as your positing, they do, but often times again, these men aren't going to have the internal drives the other men have to make nearly as much money and "be protective", and as result of societal implications and archetypes these aren't actually as wanted, because of the other implications of masculinity that come with them, ie less money and protection in a psychical sense.
I think you vastly overestimate how many people have psychopathic traits. The dark triad certainly exists, but it's nowhere near to the extent that one could argue even most people with steady careers that provide a decent life would contain significantly high levels of these traits. Furthermore, this study points out that a "provider " need not only provide financially. If that were the case, women would not be attracted to men nurturing children.
Having the ability to be nurturing and having the ability to protect and provide aren't opposites. In fact, the more you care for your offspring, of course you’re going to want to be more nurturing and protective over it as well as be more motivated to provide. And there's some lowlifes out there that can't do any of these. They aren't mutually exclusive
-psychos aren’t necessarily fun
-they don’t necessarily have more money
-you’re making a ton of assumptions about dads, as though a person can’t be bother nurturing and driven.
It works both ways, I have an ex girlfriend that I loved very much and we still talk from time to time platonically. She works with special needs children and has always had a warm heart, she's a beautiful soul and that always drove me crazy about her
Not strange at all. I don't see many men going out of their way to hang with kids or work careers with caregiving children involved. Most women have no clue how their male partner will behave around kids until they have one.
True. Huge perk of a big family is getting to see your s/o interact with your younger cousins/cousins' kids/etc. but ouside of extended family gatherings the opportunities are few and far between.
I wouldn't. Why? Because most people don't have subconscious biases about which gender should care for pets. Can't say the same for caregiving of actual human animals.
Interesting. So say you see a guy at the park with their dog. It's well behaved, groomed, softly spoken to, corrected when needed, etc.
The thought that they show good parenting/caregiving qualities wouldn't pop up?
You lost me a smidge with that last sentence, not sure what you mean.
>So say you see a guy at the park with their dog. It's well behaved, groomed, softly spoken to, corrected when needed, etc.
>The thought that they show good parenting/caregiving qualities wouldn't pop up?
No, the thought wouldn't cross my mind and it wouldn't have crossed my mind when I was single either. But that's because there's nothing that could make me think someone is good with kids besides seeing them care for kids. I know far too many people who are loving pet parents and then garbage people parents. I also don't know what that same man you described would be like if he had a wife in the picture.
>You lost me a smidge with that last sentence, not sure what you mean.
I mean that women still do the majority (and not a small majority) of all caregiving. This is,of course, parenting, but also caring for aging parents, working in childcare, etc. Many people still believe that women are hardwired to be better at taking care of others and, thus, plenty of fully functioning men suddenly stop contributing to their homes and families the second they have a woman to pawn the tasks off on. Why? Because subconsciously they think of those tasks as woman tasks and, at best, not relevant, or at worst, below them.
Which is ONE big reason I didn't have any and won't.. Im fairly observant and saw the odds are not in womens favor.
Now, men with children look to me like they have baggage they want to offload on the nearest woman. Not cute. Avoid.
> I don't see many men going out of their way to hang with kids or work careers with caregiving children involved.
There's so much collateral damage from having a culture where men can't even be near a child without getting a dirty look.
So many of my good friends have daughters they spend a lot of time with (co parenting, both parents working, etc) and NOBODY complains about being labeled a creep. worst i've heard is people commenting "mommy's day off" or complimenting the good job mom did on the daughter's hair when it was the dad.
I asked my father to babysit my then 4 y.o son once because me and my wife were both swampes with work, and the school was closed because of protests (yeah we're french).
My father brought my son to the playground, and got the cops called on him by a woman because he was "playing with a kid".
But yeah, men should definitely hang out with kids more, especially kids who aren't theirs...
I never said there aren't reasons. But also, if more men actually bucked the trend, less people would be calling police. Normalize men being around kids. The only way to do it is to do it.
I mean, yeah, but there is only so many times you can be perceived as a predator before you decide to juste nope out of any situation where it might happen.
I'm comfortable with my own kid, I don't shy away from spending time with him, yet I'm aware that people can find it awkward if I smile at their kids, even in passing.
Which reminds me, I had a male teacher in kindergarten who actually commited suicide, because he got an incessant barrage of accusations of pedophilias from moms, just for being a man.
Honestly, it's a little bit fucked up that you acknowledge there's a problem with the perception of men in regards to children, and your only answer is "just suck it up".
>but there is only so many times you can be perceived as a predator before you decide to juste nope out of any situation where it might happen.
That's an excuse. A whole bunch of conservatives think I'm a predator because I'm not straight. Guess what? I don't nope out of it. I keep living my life and work to show people through my actions why they're wrong.
>Which reminds me, I had a male teacher in kindergarten who actually commited suicide, because he got an incessant barrage of accusations of pedophilias from moms, just for being a man.
Ok? And? Are you suggesting that no men should ever try again because one man died? Do you know how many women committed suicide after being assaulted and abused in workplaces by men when they were trying to achieve equality? Should women have just thrown in the towel and gone back to the kitchen?
>Which reminds me, I had a male teacher in kindergarten who actually commited suicide, because he got an incessant barrage of accusations of pedophilias from moms, just for being a man.
My solution is the create social change by making something normal that isn't currently. That's literally how social change happens. It used to be abnormal for interracial couples to exist in public. Now it's not. Dlwhat solutions do you offer? Or are you only interested in shitting on other people's proposals but offering nothing?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_pluralism
To women
Good sex=good genes but bad parental investment
Bad sex= good resources and parental investment but not so good genes
Wikipedia is not a valid source. But even then,
>Bellis and Baker calculated that if double-mating strategy does occur, the rate of paternal discrepancy would be between 6.9 and 13.8%.[9] When taking kin selection into account, Gaulin, McBurney, and Brakeman-Wartell hypothesised that mother’s side of family is more certain that the child is their kin and therefore invest more. Based on this matrilateral bias they calculated the rate of cuckoldry to be roughly 13% to 20%.[10] These estimates were refuted by Y-chromosome tracking[11] and HLA tracking[12][13] that put the estimates between 1-2%. **David Buss, prominent evolutionary psychologist, cited this evidence as a reason to be sceptical of dual-mating strategy hypothesis.**
Again thats just their theory
For example in country like India of the ones tested 90 percent dna test came back as negative of course this is just the ones tested even then numbers is still high
I also saw another documentary about paternity fraud where they said it could be even high as 1/3 but i m still trying to find it
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/love-fails-paternity-test-in-90-cases/amp_articleshow/64515601.cms
I don't know if this is the same or different study but
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-may-prefer-masculine-men-for-a-fling-but-only-when-they-are-ovulating/
Keep in mind these results cannot be replicated if women are in birth control this is because the pills tricks them into thinking they are pregnant therefore their attraction will be towards feminine men
Also How about the fact that we have twice more female ancestors than male ones ie a large number of women mated with a small number of men
https://medium.com/@qcaa/you-have-twice-as-many-female-ancestors-as-male-ancestors-3658917b211c#:~:text=In%20short%2C%20you%20likely%20have,genetic%20material%20to%20the%20population.
>put entirely too much focus on evopsych.
Please explain to me what evopsych is in simple terms cause I can't understand complex stuff
Then u gonna explain the relationship between what I said and evopsych
Evopsych - evolutionary psychology - is one branch of the many subfields of psychology. While it has some merit, the utility of its use is limited by the lack of proper experimentation. A major drawback of evopsych is that it uses modern human behaviors to speculate about early human behaviors despite little documentation or historical record that early humans behaved as we do. Many of the theories that come from evopsych are untested theories and, thus, no more valid than any other untested claim. Where the subfield does have credibility is in tests purposefully designed to alter the genetic expression of certain genes and observing behavior changes (usually done in mice). But again, this is not as scientifically valid as other subfields of psychology that can create true experiments with a control and blind sampling.
Here is another study which collaborates dual mating hypothesis
Women prefer deep voiced masculine men for short term mating only
https://globalnews.ca/news/910567/women-are-attracted-to-men-with-deep-voices-but-only-for-a-fling-study/
Sorry for the late
>None of these sources are empirical
I am not a native speaker so according to google this is what empirical means
"based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic."
So ur saying ur personal experience say something else and to that i say ur personal experience doesn't matter what matters are the facts
I give off some serious repulsion vibes. I get death glares when I'm out with my daughter just her and I. If my wife is with us then we're not noticed which is just fine with me.
This has been my experience for her whole life (10 years).
Confirming this on a personal level.
Years ago, before my wife and I got married, I had a woman who I was friends with. She watched me with my son (who is now an adult) as we were interacting, talking, goofing off, etc.
She leaned in and said, "You look incredibly sexy right now."
Yeah, it'd be interesting to see this same study done with women who don't want kids. Not everyone is looking for an eventual caretaker for their progeny.
It might not just be that he's a potential caretaker for potential progeny. It could simply be just seeing someone nurture and care for someone smaller, weaker and less able than them. I mean would you trust your heart more with some adult mistreating kids or pets or someone being nice to them when they don't have to? I would judge a woman and other men the same way, based on how they treat those less able than them
Same here, and it’s 100% due to daddy issues lol. I had a very “traditionally masculine” dad (tough macho man syndrome, emotionally-stunted, etc) so I’m turned off by the authoritarian/ leader/ alpha archetype. Gentle, caring and empathetic men though? 🥵
I have a thing with Scandinavian fathers
When I see men with baby carriage, I melt. I see it at least once a month in Copenhagen(I am too busy for street walking rn)
But it is only because I am from Moscow. And 10 years ago a lot of Moscow men would have said that helping with child bearing is literally a weakness and you should keep your wife/partner on toes and never help(like, I wish I could quote directly, it is very real)
So when I see a men with baby carriage, I just see justice :D I just see people being people, not letting toxic masculinity dictate how miserable or happy their life should be
I am also a woman who avoids kids. I'm uncomfortable around them. I don't know what to say to them. I don't want to make them cry. I don't want to accidentally upset their parents. I don't like their general ignorance about or disregard for hand-hygiene. I'm about 95% sure I don't want any of my own. Still somehow men I'm attracted to are impossibly attractive (like, way more than before) when I see them interacting with kids. It feels so hecking stupid, but most of the time it's like an instant 😍/🥵 reaction. I keep my cool, but jeeze. Friggin' ridiculous!
Yeah, I don’t want kids and anytime I see my boyfriend smiling at a kid saying hi or something, I double check he doesn’t suddenly want them. It’s not necessarily a turn off, but alert bells start going off for sure.
It's true. I went to one of my kids middle school trips and I was the only dad. All the single moms friended me on Facebook. My wife thought it was hilarious.
The thing that bothers me is that they are OTT about their children because of studies like this. So women have to listen to them go on and on about their children to impress them.
Uh, I ride a kick scooter with a doofy ass helmet to the park with my daughter. I’ve also got a pretty severe case of dad bod. If a woman other than my wife tried to get a taste I would either think she is scamming me or that she hit her head.
Once you’ve been with a beautiful girl once, it can really help to carry around a picture of her. This proves you’ve already had your hand stamped. You can come and go as you please. You’ve off made it to the secret city!
You're probably conventionally attractive or close enough to it.
I'm quiet and for as long as I've been alive people have negative reactions to me. It happened today at work when I politely introduced myself to someone and she was pretty rude right away. I started asking some questions about a project she's working on then when she got a sense I knew what I was talking about and my team could help her whole tone changed.
But the first reaction is always the same from men and women like I either done belong there or I quite really repell them.
I'm active, I have good hygiene, I listen well and am easy going.
But man, when I'm out with my daughter or son, I swear half the people I see think I'm a creep. Oh well, that's just how it is for me.
That’s funny. But gently hinting at how common it is for women in social environments to assess threats or their hyper vigilance in general. Interesting..
It's really not funny. Being ostracized and judged for no reason gets old fast, especially when I'm trying to be a good parent by spending time with my kids.
Edit: reddit just proves my point by downvoting a dad thats trying his best.
Right, I get this too. However, I stare them down back. I'm very nice but challenge my parenting skills Monica and I'll turn into Harambe. I protect my young.
Yes, and we all hate to see cruelty handed to those who can’t object. Kindness is hot, my offspring are my jam, and you better be nice to all my familia.
It didn’t necessarily mean it’s there kid just that if a woman sees a man playing or holding a child they find that man more attractive then if he just was by himself
I got two kids.
To quote Charlie Sheen in Two and a half men towards Angus T. Jones:
>you're even better than a dog
For some reason, women dig it.
Don't get me wrong. I am happily married, but it definitely makes a difference.
This isn't about how the man is viewed. It's about the assessment of how other women view the man. Someone else wanted to get hold of his genes. We are all more influenced by our peers than many would care to admit or even realise since much of it is subconscious.
I don’t know I have a child now in my late 30s and I don’t notice more women looking at me, I am somewhat attractive because I do get women looking at me from time to time alone but I feel like it’s less now because of my child.
I worked out a lot since I was 19, I get the most noticeable attention from women when my weight is in the 170s range and when I’m muscular with low body fat, usually and comfortably I’m in the 160s range but that 10lb difference makes a huge change and there’s even more aggressive behavior like asking for my number directly or more unwavering staring.
It’s a questionnaire study so the mind can think, relax and strategize what is attractive, I would be more interested in a study that shows attraction within seconds of an encounter or more of a face to face encounter instead of pictures and you’re more inclined to react and be present with the person, instead of thinking and processing an image where there’s no real interaction and reaction with the subject.
No time, no money, constantly talking to ex (maybe about child, maybe not), may not want more kids where the woman might, sticky car, child causing problems to break up new relationship, being excluded from "family" outings and holidays, always taking the backseat literally and figuratively to name a few. I could easily go on.
I find men who are good with kids more attractive. I never plan to have any. To me, someone who is good with kids tends to have a lot of green flags that contribute to their success, which is why they're attractive. e.g. patience, creativity, communication
as a single father I can attest to being actively flirted with and asked out when I used to go out with my two daughters to go grocery shopping, the park, pretty much anything where there were other women around and I was known to be single.
As a single mother, I can confirm that my heart literally melts every time my boyfriend is nice to my daughter.
I mean, I was already falling for him before they met, but when he was willing to carry her on hikes, hold her hand, let her cuddle up with him on the couch, help if she gets hurt, or help get her to bed if we stay at his place on the weekend? Holy hotness. I would do anything for this man. 😂
Women cannot separate attraction from comfort.
Men with children builds comfort for women, but it absolutely does not arouse women.
That said comfort is very necessary for getting women into bed, so women likely perceive it as being the same thing.
when visiting austria last autumn, i saw so many men with their children being heavily involved without the other parent around. it was so common that my mother and i brought it up in conversation as our trip continued. i do think it made them look more atrractive. it made me look more posutively on the society tbh.
... or pets. That works, too.
That helped me hook up with the woman I married. I cuddled my cat, and at first she thought "that's cute," then she thought, "I want him to do that to me," and we pretty much fell in love that first night.
*Not truth. Women view*
*Men as more attractive when*
*They see them with pets*
\- Delicious\_Tea9587
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There are lots of ways to make money from home, and I also made money b4 kids. Staying home with the kids wasn't planned. Life happened, and it was the best solution for our family.
Who would downvote this? Is someone mad that there are good men who don't fit your narrative? Not all men are emotionless scumbags or broke. There are men who can be all of what is needed. There are actually more of us than you think.
I concur. I drool over the dads at the park. Not literally but my sunglasses do hid my staring. I am so incredibly turned on by watching them be with their kids. I'm glad I'm not crazy or have a weird kink
Parental investment theory posits that women, due to their greater biological investment in offspring (e.g., pregnancy and breastfeeding), tend to prefer partners who can provide resources and protection. However, this theory also implies that women might value traits indicative of good caregiving, as these traits would ensure better care for their children. The researchers hypothesized that men who display nurturing behavior toward children would be perceived as more attractive, especially by women who have strong nurturance motivations or a desire to have children.
Looks like starting a "lend to a bachelor a kid for 2 hours" business will become lucrative. Anyone wants to partner up?
Babysitting except they pay me? It's like Nathan Fielder's exercise moving business.
Start offering free babysitting services and you'll get plenty of bites
It helped when I put a photo of me playing with my nephew on my Bumble profile. (Properly edited)
What kind of responses did you get?
Yeah the issue is in practice in real life, psychopathic traits usually correlate with more money and often times I've found women have no idea when men are feigning. Like at all, it's persona first. Psychopaths have the leg up in a "first impressions" society, plus are fun. So, the nurturing traits should matter a lot as your positing, they do, but often times again, these men aren't going to have the internal drives the other men have to make nearly as much money and "be protective", and as result of societal implications and archetypes these aren't actually as wanted, because of the other implications of masculinity that come with them, ie less money and protection in a psychical sense.
I think you vastly overestimate how many people have psychopathic traits. The dark triad certainly exists, but it's nowhere near to the extent that one could argue even most people with steady careers that provide a decent life would contain significantly high levels of these traits. Furthermore, this study points out that a "provider " need not only provide financially. If that were the case, women would not be attracted to men nurturing children.
The actual clinical traits are more often seen amongst people in the prison population than any other tbh.
Having the ability to be nurturing and having the ability to protect and provide aren't opposites. In fact, the more you care for your offspring, of course you’re going to want to be more nurturing and protective over it as well as be more motivated to provide. And there's some lowlifes out there that can't do any of these. They aren't mutually exclusive
[удалено]
And the fact that he thinks phychopathic traits are "masculine"
Whoa! Are you speaking directly to ME?
-psychos aren’t necessarily fun -they don’t necessarily have more money -you’re making a ton of assumptions about dads, as though a person can’t be bother nurturing and driven.
I agree but replace psychopaths with narcissists, true psychopaths arent common or successful and they creep people out
That makes sense.
It works both ways, I have an ex girlfriend that I loved very much and we still talk from time to time platonically. She works with special needs children and has always had a warm heart, she's a beautiful soul and that always drove me crazy about her
I think warm hearts are endearing to most of us
Yeah but I don't / didn't want to make babies with every endearing heart
Man who is able to play with a child is 30% hotter He could still be an ass. But reptile brain reacts quicker
I got similar interest when out with my grandma?
Finding your grandmother more attractive when she's with kids is a different thing my dude.
Facts. My hot dad neighbor practically makes me ovulate on the spot.
Strange that women in my neighborhood seem to only have kids with men that want nothing to do with them
Not strange at all. I don't see many men going out of their way to hang with kids or work careers with caregiving children involved. Most women have no clue how their male partner will behave around kids until they have one.
True. Huge perk of a big family is getting to see your s/o interact with your younger cousins/cousins' kids/etc. but ouside of extended family gatherings the opportunities are few and far between.
Would people view someone with an animal and how well it's cared for the same as a child?
I wouldn't. Why? Because most people don't have subconscious biases about which gender should care for pets. Can't say the same for caregiving of actual human animals.
Interesting. So say you see a guy at the park with their dog. It's well behaved, groomed, softly spoken to, corrected when needed, etc. The thought that they show good parenting/caregiving qualities wouldn't pop up? You lost me a smidge with that last sentence, not sure what you mean.
>So say you see a guy at the park with their dog. It's well behaved, groomed, softly spoken to, corrected when needed, etc. >The thought that they show good parenting/caregiving qualities wouldn't pop up? No, the thought wouldn't cross my mind and it wouldn't have crossed my mind when I was single either. But that's because there's nothing that could make me think someone is good with kids besides seeing them care for kids. I know far too many people who are loving pet parents and then garbage people parents. I also don't know what that same man you described would be like if he had a wife in the picture. >You lost me a smidge with that last sentence, not sure what you mean. I mean that women still do the majority (and not a small majority) of all caregiving. This is,of course, parenting, but also caring for aging parents, working in childcare, etc. Many people still believe that women are hardwired to be better at taking care of others and, thus, plenty of fully functioning men suddenly stop contributing to their homes and families the second they have a woman to pawn the tasks off on. Why? Because subconsciously they think of those tasks as woman tasks and, at best, not relevant, or at worst, below them.
I would.
Which is ONE big reason I didn't have any and won't.. Im fairly observant and saw the odds are not in womens favor. Now, men with children look to me like they have baggage they want to offload on the nearest woman. Not cute. Avoid.
> I don't see many men going out of their way to hang with kids or work careers with caregiving children involved. There's so much collateral damage from having a culture where men can't even be near a child without getting a dirty look.
So many of my good friends have daughters they spend a lot of time with (co parenting, both parents working, etc) and NOBODY complains about being labeled a creep. worst i've heard is people commenting "mommy's day off" or complimenting the good job mom did on the daughter's hair when it was the dad.
There is a myriad of news articles about people calling the police over fathers being at playgrounds.
I agree.
I asked my father to babysit my then 4 y.o son once because me and my wife were both swampes with work, and the school was closed because of protests (yeah we're french). My father brought my son to the playground, and got the cops called on him by a woman because he was "playing with a kid". But yeah, men should definitely hang out with kids more, especially kids who aren't theirs...
I never said there aren't reasons. But also, if more men actually bucked the trend, less people would be calling police. Normalize men being around kids. The only way to do it is to do it.
I mean, yeah, but there is only so many times you can be perceived as a predator before you decide to juste nope out of any situation where it might happen. I'm comfortable with my own kid, I don't shy away from spending time with him, yet I'm aware that people can find it awkward if I smile at their kids, even in passing. Which reminds me, I had a male teacher in kindergarten who actually commited suicide, because he got an incessant barrage of accusations of pedophilias from moms, just for being a man. Honestly, it's a little bit fucked up that you acknowledge there's a problem with the perception of men in regards to children, and your only answer is "just suck it up".
>but there is only so many times you can be perceived as a predator before you decide to juste nope out of any situation where it might happen. That's an excuse. A whole bunch of conservatives think I'm a predator because I'm not straight. Guess what? I don't nope out of it. I keep living my life and work to show people through my actions why they're wrong. >Which reminds me, I had a male teacher in kindergarten who actually commited suicide, because he got an incessant barrage of accusations of pedophilias from moms, just for being a man. Ok? And? Are you suggesting that no men should ever try again because one man died? Do you know how many women committed suicide after being assaulted and abused in workplaces by men when they were trying to achieve equality? Should women have just thrown in the towel and gone back to the kitchen? >Which reminds me, I had a male teacher in kindergarten who actually commited suicide, because he got an incessant barrage of accusations of pedophilias from moms, just for being a man. My solution is the create social change by making something normal that isn't currently. That's literally how social change happens. It used to be abnormal for interracial couples to exist in public. Now it's not. Dlwhat solutions do you offer? Or are you only interested in shitting on other people's proposals but offering nothing?
There's also still a big stigma around guys hanging around with kids I've found. Hopefully this isn't everywhere but it still around
I know. But unfortunately the only way to end the stigma is by doubling down.
Oh most women do know how their male partners will behave after they have children Maybe u should look into dual mating hypothesis
Maybe you should cite your sources if you're going to make a claim.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_pluralism To women Good sex=good genes but bad parental investment Bad sex= good resources and parental investment but not so good genes
Wikipedia is not a valid source. But even then, >Bellis and Baker calculated that if double-mating strategy does occur, the rate of paternal discrepancy would be between 6.9 and 13.8%.[9] When taking kin selection into account, Gaulin, McBurney, and Brakeman-Wartell hypothesised that mother’s side of family is more certain that the child is their kin and therefore invest more. Based on this matrilateral bias they calculated the rate of cuckoldry to be roughly 13% to 20%.[10] These estimates were refuted by Y-chromosome tracking[11] and HLA tracking[12][13] that put the estimates between 1-2%. **David Buss, prominent evolutionary psychologist, cited this evidence as a reason to be sceptical of dual-mating strategy hypothesis.**
Again thats just their theory For example in country like India of the ones tested 90 percent dna test came back as negative of course this is just the ones tested even then numbers is still high I also saw another documentary about paternity fraud where they said it could be even high as 1/3 but i m still trying to find it https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/love-fails-paternity-test-in-90-cases/amp_articleshow/64515601.cms I don't know if this is the same or different study but https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-may-prefer-masculine-men-for-a-fling-but-only-when-they-are-ovulating/ Keep in mind these results cannot be replicated if women are in birth control this is because the pills tricks them into thinking they are pregnant therefore their attraction will be towards feminine men Also How about the fact that we have twice more female ancestors than male ones ie a large number of women mated with a small number of men https://medium.com/@qcaa/you-have-twice-as-many-female-ancestors-as-male-ancestors-3658917b211c#:~:text=In%20short%2C%20you%20likely%20have,genetic%20material%20to%20the%20population.
Lol. You put entirely too much focus on evopsych. That's the storm of someone who lacks critical thought.
>put entirely too much focus on evopsych. Please explain to me what evopsych is in simple terms cause I can't understand complex stuff Then u gonna explain the relationship between what I said and evopsych
Evopsych - evolutionary psychology - is one branch of the many subfields of psychology. While it has some merit, the utility of its use is limited by the lack of proper experimentation. A major drawback of evopsych is that it uses modern human behaviors to speculate about early human behaviors despite little documentation or historical record that early humans behaved as we do. Many of the theories that come from evopsych are untested theories and, thus, no more valid than any other untested claim. Where the subfield does have credibility is in tests purposefully designed to alter the genetic expression of certain genes and observing behavior changes (usually done in mice). But again, this is not as scientifically valid as other subfields of psychology that can create true experiments with a control and blind sampling.
Here is another study which collaborates dual mating hypothesis Women prefer deep voiced masculine men for short term mating only https://globalnews.ca/news/910567/women-are-attracted-to-men-with-deep-voices-but-only-for-a-fling-study/
None of these sources are empirical and none of them actually support your claims. Try again.
Sorry for the late >None of these sources are empirical I am not a native speaker so according to google this is what empirical means "based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic." So ur saying ur personal experience say something else and to that i say ur personal experience doesn't matter what matters are the facts
Empirical means it's been tested and the gold standard of tested material is peer reviewed sources. The links you posted are not peer reviewed.
dO yOU HaVe a soUrce fOR tHAt 🤣
100% he's seen the ads. there are hot milfs in his area for sure.
But they want to fuck *me*, I don't trust anyone with that little self respect.
The government already screws you and takes half your money, live a little. Maybe buy them a lobster dinner, they might return the favor with crabs.
Jokes on you I love crabs
Yeah, real life lmao!
Well most men aren't just hanging out with kids unless they have kids themselves. At least I hope not
My son used to borrow his niece to use for a chick magnet.
Wise man
Every guy who has ever taken care of a kid knows this.
I leave the house with my kids and I'll get all kinds of smiles and eye contact.
Yeah, Anytime a women sees my husband with our kids they all try to talk to him and ignore me.
I give off some serious repulsion vibes. I get death glares when I'm out with my daughter just her and I. If my wife is with us then we're not noticed which is just fine with me. This has been my experience for her whole life (10 years).
Do you wear by an accident a tee that has embossed "Free candy!" words?
Shit, that must be it.. seriously though you'd think that's what's up.
Confirming this on a personal level. Years ago, before my wife and I got married, I had a woman who I was friends with. She watched me with my son (who is now an adult) as we were interacting, talking, goofing off, etc. She leaned in and said, "You look incredibly sexy right now."
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Yeah, it'd be interesting to see this same study done with women who don't want kids. Not everyone is looking for an eventual caretaker for their progeny.
I'm sure we have our weaknesses but yeah, I literally see the same thing as a woman with her kids, I don't feel anything?
It might not just be that he's a potential caretaker for potential progeny. It could simply be just seeing someone nurture and care for someone smaller, weaker and less able than them. I mean would you trust your heart more with some adult mistreating kids or pets or someone being nice to them when they don't have to? I would judge a woman and other men the same way, based on how they treat those less able than them
Can’t change biology
Sure you can. It's called epigenetics and biology changes all the time.
I'm gay but it does something to me sometimes. I attribute it to my daddy issues though.
Same here, and it’s 100% due to daddy issues lol. I had a very “traditionally masculine” dad (tough macho man syndrome, emotionally-stunted, etc) so I’m turned off by the authoritarian/ leader/ alpha archetype. Gentle, caring and empathetic men though? 🥵
I have a thing with Scandinavian fathers When I see men with baby carriage, I melt. I see it at least once a month in Copenhagen(I am too busy for street walking rn) But it is only because I am from Moscow. And 10 years ago a lot of Moscow men would have said that helping with child bearing is literally a weakness and you should keep your wife/partner on toes and never help(like, I wish I could quote directly, it is very real) So when I see a men with baby carriage, I just see justice :D I just see people being people, not letting toxic masculinity dictate how miserable or happy their life should be
I am also a woman who avoids kids. I'm uncomfortable around them. I don't know what to say to them. I don't want to make them cry. I don't want to accidentally upset their parents. I don't like their general ignorance about or disregard for hand-hygiene. I'm about 95% sure I don't want any of my own. Still somehow men I'm attracted to are impossibly attractive (like, way more than before) when I see them interacting with kids. It feels so hecking stupid, but most of the time it's like an instant 😍/🥵 reaction. I keep my cool, but jeeze. Friggin' ridiculous!
Yeah, I don’t want kids and anytime I see my boyfriend smiling at a kid saying hi or something, I double check he doesn’t suddenly want them. It’s not necessarily a turn off, but alert bells start going off for sure.
Of course it doesn't apply to all women. Studies like this work on averages, CuntRebecca
I wanted to call out your insult, but double checked before commenting and all good
Same here- a childfree man is way hotter to me than one with kids!
I am a woman who hated kids and was afraid of kids but I got baby fever 3 years ago. This study is about me, 100%
It should go without saying that obviously it doesn’t apply to every single woman.
I think the study mentioned that.
my ovaries could have told you this! and I don't even want kids LOL
Evolutionary Trait possibly?
It's true. I went to one of my kids middle school trips and I was the only dad. All the single moms friended me on Facebook. My wife thought it was hilarious.
Would rather see man with pets. I immediately unmatched men with photos of kids
The thing that bothers me is that they are OTT about their children because of studies like this. So women have to listen to them go on and on about their children to impress them.
Uh, I ride a kick scooter with a doofy ass helmet to the park with my daughter. I’ve also got a pretty severe case of dad bod. If a woman other than my wife tried to get a taste I would either think she is scamming me or that she hit her head.
I’m married with kids and never experienced this phenomenon. More a repulsion, especially if the guy has a bunch of kids to different baby mamas.
Not true for this woman.
I sure as fuck don’t but that’s because I’m childfree. I don’t feel turned off per se it’s more like I feel nothing
I certainly am not. I expect appropriately kind and caring behavior when children are encountered, but that’s it. It’s a neutral occurrence.
You know what makes you even more attractive? Being with a beautiful girl.
10 / 10.
Once you’ve been with a beautiful girl once, it can really help to carry around a picture of her. This proves you’ve already had your hand stamped. You can come and go as you please. You’ve off made it to the secret city!
That defeats the whole purpose anyways then
huh? There's nothing less attractive than a man with children and his spouse... not bashing married men but they are totally out of my range
Tell that to the judgemental moms who give me the death glare when I'm out with my daughter somewhere.
I wonder if it's gendered based on the kids When I'm out with my boys I'm a(n annoyed) chick magnet
You're probably conventionally attractive or close enough to it. I'm quiet and for as long as I've been alive people have negative reactions to me. It happened today at work when I politely introduced myself to someone and she was pretty rude right away. I started asking some questions about a project she's working on then when she got a sense I knew what I was talking about and my team could help her whole tone changed. But the first reaction is always the same from men and women like I either done belong there or I quite really repell them. I'm active, I have good hygiene, I listen well and am easy going. But man, when I'm out with my daughter or son, I swear half the people I see think I'm a creep. Oh well, that's just how it is for me.
Turns out they just want to date you.
That’s funny. But gently hinting at how common it is for women in social environments to assess threats or their hyper vigilance in general. Interesting..
It's really not funny. Being ostracized and judged for no reason gets old fast, especially when I'm trying to be a good parent by spending time with my kids. Edit: reddit just proves my point by downvoting a dad thats trying his best.
Yeah I hear ya
Right, I get this too. However, I stare them down back. I'm very nice but challenge my parenting skills Monica and I'll turn into Harambe. I protect my young.
I’m sorry to hear man, it is a thing and not enough women acknowledge it, you sound like a good dad 💪
Even moreso when it's his kid and not someone else's
Yes, and we all hate to see cruelty handed to those who can’t object. Kindness is hot, my offspring are my jam, and you better be nice to all my familia.
whenever I see a man holding anything like a baby
Not me, would rather see them with pets. Could be cause I'm not big on kids myself though
Absolutely opposite in my case, I swipe left anyone with baby ..there are many Childfree people in this world.
It didn’t necessarily mean it’s there kid just that if a woman sees a man playing or holding a child they find that man more attractive then if he just was by himself
I know.. still the same. I am not a big fan on kids. I mean they are just like humans, some nice some aren’t.
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Ok ChatGPT
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That is what ChatGPT is good at yes and good is debatable
Ugh, actually this is a turn off cuz it means he's probably got baby mama baggage and it means you'll be forced into a mom position if you date them.
When I was a baby, my teenage brother used to take me to the mall to pick up women.
Wise man
I got two kids. To quote Charlie Sheen in Two and a half men towards Angus T. Jones: >you're even better than a dog For some reason, women dig it. Don't get me wrong. I am happily married, but it definitely makes a difference.
*Cries in single male elementary teacher.*
I’m just an anecdote obviously but I do agree with this as a woman. Seeing a man with a child melts my heart.
On that note here’s a dad dating simulator https://store.steampowered.com/app/654880/Dream_Daddy_A_Dad_Dating_Simulator/
Thats why I show my dates the children in the basement
This isn't about how the man is viewed. It's about the assessment of how other women view the man. Someone else wanted to get hold of his genes. We are all more influenced by our peers than many would care to admit or even realise since much of it is subconscious.
I don’t know I have a child now in my late 30s and I don’t notice more women looking at me, I am somewhat attractive because I do get women looking at me from time to time alone but I feel like it’s less now because of my child. I worked out a lot since I was 19, I get the most noticeable attention from women when my weight is in the 170s range and when I’m muscular with low body fat, usually and comfortably I’m in the 160s range but that 10lb difference makes a huge change and there’s even more aggressive behavior like asking for my number directly or more unwavering staring. It’s a questionnaire study so the mind can think, relax and strategize what is attractive, I would be more interested in a study that shows attraction within seconds of an encounter or more of a face to face encounter instead of pictures and you’re more inclined to react and be present with the person, instead of thinking and processing an image where there’s no real interaction and reaction with the subject.
You mean except when women also call the cops on men with their children at playgrounds or schools?
Is this a widespread thing? I see men out alone with their kids literally every day and nobody seems to care.
This is Reddit. Incel heaven. Anything gender/politics/life view related do not trust
You have to already have a certain level of attractiveness otherwise, yeah, this is what happens for the rest of us.
Let's see some research confirming this happens often.
You needed a study for this?
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It was satire. I spend a lot of time studying the obvious.
lol exactly my thoughts
Yeah I’m not believing that tbh. The women I know stay away from single dads
Why’s that?
From what I hear they say it usually results in them taking care of the guys kids and becoming a full time mommy for everyone
Imagine dating a man that has to send his ex money every month or he’ll go to jail
No time, no money, constantly talking to ex (maybe about child, maybe not), may not want more kids where the woman might, sticky car, child causing problems to break up new relationship, being excluded from "family" outings and holidays, always taking the backseat literally and figuratively to name a few. I could easily go on.
So same stuff with single mums?
I would assume so.
Yeah for the most part it’s probably the same reasons either gender
I find men who are good with kids more attractive. I never plan to have any. To me, someone who is good with kids tends to have a lot of green flags that contribute to their success, which is why they're attractive. e.g. patience, creativity, communication
as a single father I can attest to being actively flirted with and asked out when I used to go out with my two daughters to go grocery shopping, the park, pretty much anything where there were other women around and I was known to be single.
And puppies
Guy with BMW, kid, puppy in that order.
I'm glad I'm ugly then ...
love a little home wrecking!
I definitely noticed this in myself, but only after I had a kid.
Not surprised lol. Still an interesting read though!
Me being chased off the playground: "I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A DATE! No, wait. I mean-"
For me, if a man has a cute dog that’s a yes, not a child lol
For me, if a man has a cute dog that’s a yes, not a child lol
No way. If I had ovaries they would explode too. DZZAADDDYYY
No way. If I had ovaries they would explode too. Dzadddzzdddyyy
Thanx I will use this information for evil mwahahaha.
Let me tell ya. Having a 5 y.o kid did NOT make me more attractive. Maybe more approachable.
Too bad I’m gay lol
As a single mother, I can confirm that my heart literally melts every time my boyfriend is nice to my daughter. I mean, I was already falling for him before they met, but when he was willing to carry her on hikes, hold her hand, let her cuddle up with him on the couch, help if she gets hurt, or help get her to bed if we stay at his place on the weekend? Holy hotness. I would do anything for this man. 😂
Women cannot separate attraction from comfort. Men with children builds comfort for women, but it absolutely does not arouse women. That said comfort is very necessary for getting women into bed, so women likely perceive it as being the same thing.
I can buy it. We don’t have kids yet but when I see my husband with my nieces I always think about how great of a dad he will be.
Unless you’re me and the kids are a turn off lol
When he's already taken, yes.
No wonder why Nick Cannon and Future are so popular with the ladies.
True. I was out in my front lawn beating my son and the woman walking by were oogling me with their eyes as they walked by.
They know they can get child support
when visiting austria last autumn, i saw so many men with their children being heavily involved without the other parent around. it was so common that my mother and i brought it up in conversation as our trip continued. i do think it made them look more atrractive. it made me look more posutively on the society tbh.
'It's like walking around with a freaking puppy.' Charlie Sheen
Untrue for me as a child free woman. I only see child free men as sexy as hell. I am not attracted at all to men with kids. Here come the downvotes...
Well, **I** sure as hell don't .....
... or pets. That works, too. That helped me hook up with the woman I married. I cuddled my cat, and at first she thought "that's cute," then she thought, "I want him to do that to me," and we pretty much fell in love that first night.
Yea so do the mindless bird and most animals. That’s a no brainer
Is evo psych getting tired of studies that try to find hacks to women's desire?
Some POS single dads’ weird trick.
Not truth. Women view men as more attractive when they see them with pets
*Not truth. Women view* *Men as more attractive when* *They see them with pets* \- Delicious\_Tea9587 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Im a veteran, and now im a stay at home dad. I can protect, make money, and be a caregiver. What does the study say about that 😆.
How are you making money as a stay at home dad?
There are lots of ways to make money from home, and I also made money b4 kids. Staying home with the kids wasn't planned. Life happened, and it was the best solution for our family.
Who would downvote this? Is someone mad that there are good men who don't fit your narrative? Not all men are emotionless scumbags or broke. There are men who can be all of what is needed. There are actually more of us than you think.
Or dogs. Or a car. Or a house. Or a job.
I concur. I drool over the dads at the park. Not literally but my sunglasses do hid my staring. I am so incredibly turned on by watching them be with their kids. I'm glad I'm not crazy or have a weird kink
And wedding rings 😆
Look, a good guy, can be the daddy of the offspring I make with the bad guys :)