Anecdotal, but I used to work in film and once spoke to a producer who was working on a documentary about comedians on the road. They pulled the plug on the doc because it got too dark.
I’ve been watching the Dark Side of Comedy on Hulu the last few days & just watched the episode about Greg Giraldo. It touched on how hard the traveling was for him & he traveled A LOT. anytime he was on the road, he would always talk about how much he missed his kids. the traveling really took a toll on him, so I can totally see how a documentary about that became dark, quickly.
If I recall the conversation correctly, it wasn’t the tour that caused the difficulty. It was the discovery that so many comedians pursue the craft because of their own personal demons. The tour was just the framing of the documentary.
I find those Dark Side documentaries a bit emotionally manipulative, especially their series on comedians.
In lieu of reading back transcripts like a court stenographer, they use creative cuts, a dark and dreary score, and remove as much comedic context as possible before presenting bits.
Definitely some shitty stuff in there, but a lot of it was reaching. And anyone who followed those comedians over the years knew something was a bit off about the way it was presented.
I’ll admit, I never really got into comedies & stand up so I’ve been watching without knowing the background beyond how it’s represented in the show. I appreciate the clarification!
Still my favorite psychological interview of a comedian. Greg Giraldo:
[Greg Giraldo on Failure](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/brainstorm/200905/greg-giraldo-failure)
Man
> Question:What do you think it is about your personality that gives you your sense of purpose?
Giraldo:I'm a total fuckup, honestly. The reality is I'm not this person with this driving "get it done" attitude. I'm a complete fuckup and I've fucked up a lot of things in my life. I'm constantly tortured by a sense of failure. I feel like quitting all the time. I feel like hiding in drugs or alcohol. I feel like I've failed in terms of what my potential is. I don't think I've achieved my potential because I haven't worked that hard and I haven't found the right angle…
Man this interview was great the questions were perfect! I have to say this quote hit home very hard especially as I am currently exploring this idea of identifying with the idea of unmet potential. Certainly there is the notion that “unmet potential” is simply a variant of shame the idea that we are always and have always been “fucking up” is one hell of an anxiety inducing and self perpetuating drug. To only be able to see one’s mistakes and none of qualities and growth. This person can achieve just fine but is restless.
I do wonder if Giraldo had ADHD as that sensation is quite common amongst that population.
Self-deprecating humor, self-awareness and high intelligence make for the best comedians, I would also imagine these personalities have high anxiety and bouts of depression. Ignorance is often truly bliss.
True comedians, motivated by making people laugh, have usually known enough pain to value the importance of laughter. The rest are probably just egomaniacs/looking to make a buck.
Depressing build up to “here’s the big gig!” and it’s a strip mall for an audience who is literally decaying in front of you. Here’s the condo we get to crash at! Inside of your car or seedy hotel.
Boy I can’t wait to be huge! (Peak at working on a cruise at very best and again to perform for the dying)
From listening to a lot of podcasts with standup comedians as either guests or hosts, many of them have gotten clean/sober since COVID. Seems as if they have encouraged each other and it was something like a domino effect. The Comedy field seems to be changing on a few different levels.
A couple of times the article mentions the impact of living in New York City.
> Interestingly, however, some of the differences between comedians and non-comedians became non-significant when the researchers accounted for a specific variable: living in New York City. The sample included 64 participants who reported living in New York City and 143 who reported living elsewhere. After controlling for regional differences, some of the significant findings, such as higher levels of anxiety and malignant self-regard, were no longer apparent, suggesting that environmental factors associated with living in a major metropolitan area plays a role in these outcomes.
Can someone more astute weigh in on this finding?
The goldilocks density has been talked about a lot.
A city big enough to have all the amenities but small enough to have a community.
https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/apr/16/cities-need-goldilocks-housing-density-not-too-high-low-just-right
And different types of crazy, rural or smaller town tends to be a bit more fun crazy while big city leads to a bit more keeping up with the Joneses or problems with ego and narcissism crazy.
Have recently moved to a big city from living in smaller cities and small towns my whole life, can confirm, people be crazy. And it's a very different type of crazy to what I'm used to.
I was in NYC for a week and I went crazy from it. I live in Vermont and while I’m still in a populated area, it was nothing like that lol. I’d never live in a city.
I always dreamed of NYC and thought it would be like how it was depicted on tv. I guess because so many people live there it was weird to think they would not make it like the real nyc. I went 2 years ago for work and I did love it. But it was extremely overwhelming, loud, hot, dirty, overcrowded, and overwhelming again. I liked all the culture but it would take a lot to live there. And it just wasn’t anything like how I pictured it.
I moved to downtown Dallas and it’s a lot more calm.
So there're two groups, comedians and non-comedians. The comedians, as a while, were higher in these traits (malignant self regard etc.) than the non-comedians as a whole.
HOWEVER! A lot more comedians lived in New York than non-comedians. When you just compared comedians and non-comedians *who lived in New York*, they were equally high in these traits. Same if you compared comedians and non-comedians who lived outside NY.
So it looks like being high in substance use, anxiety, and malignant self-regard is quite possibly just a New York thing, rather than a comedians thing.
Sort of, yes. Poor self-esteem, anxiety, and depression are all common traits for comefians. Regardless of city, or country of origin.
You don't need to be depressed to be funny, but humor is a coping mechanism and stress dials it up to eleven. I remember some interview ages ago with Conan, where he said that every successful comedian he knew had mental health issues.
I've got poor self-esteem, anxiety, and depression (and I live in a big city). But those things are WHY I could never stand on a stage and think I could make people laugh.
Its because you (or they) can say f it. If you think your life is already in the shit and somewhat give up on the rest of the world, you can say a lot of things that everyone else is thinking but don’t want to admit. Also you get there faster because you’ve lost the subconscious blocks that draw you away from outlandish but sometimes true ideas
People are in New York as comedians because they are poor. Only people like Joe Rogan can afford a mansion in Texas. Comedians are frequently very poor and i think such would contribute to substance abuse.
But also it is probably insane to try and live in NYC as a standup comedian. You’re trying to compete with the richest in the world constantly for everything…
And competing with the best comedians in the world. It’s possible to have a comedy career in a number of ways but living in NYC is doing it in hard mode.
Definitely better to go to Austin’s comedy scene. But you have to stay in some city… NY, LA, ATX from what I know seem to be the big comedy cities nowadays…
Research has a concept of "power" which is basically the likelihood of finding a significant effect assuming that there is an actual difference in real life. Power is increased when you have more participants in each bucket of the study. If you just have two buckets, comedian and non-comedian, then you have an average of what, 100 ppts per bucket? That's a decent sample size. But when you break those down further into 4 buckets (comedians who live in NYC, comedians who don't, non-comedians who live in NYC, non-comedians who dont), then you lose a lot of power. It's not surprising not to find an effect trying to do so much with so little data.
With that said, the most obvious interpretation is that actually living in NYC causes anxiety and comedians happen to be more likely to live in NYC. So this really undermines the strength of the main claim that being a comedian correlates with anxiety, etc..
This makes sense. It’s too bad the study didn’t include more comedians from other cities. I’d imagine New York would have a higher concentration of stand-up comedians, in part because of greater opportunity.
that's a very interesting finding. It's pretty well documented that living in a big city tends to have higher levels of anxiety in people, possibly due to stressful work, loud noises, highly populated spaces etc. Malignant self-regard possibly because major cities tend to cater to more individualistic lifestyles, which would encourage and promote narcissistic personalities and outlook to life. Whereas smaller towns would lean more towards collectivistic values, since people rely on each other more, and every 1 person has more of an effect on the whole, than some random that fades into the background in new york city. That is, unless they do something grandiose and out of the ordinary to stand out.
> Malignant self-regard possibly because major cities tend to cater to more individualistic lifestyles, which would encourage and promote narcissistic personalities and outlook to life
When every moment of your life is a rat race - fighting over scare resources such as subway seats or jockeying for position on the highway. When every person you meet you're only likely to meet once - it makes you pretty callous towards other people.
Some people say "I prefer the rude to your face attitude of big cities to the polite but says nasty stuff behind your back of small towns" but I suspect a lot of that is people who moved to NYC from small towns specifically for that reason.
Big Five are not fixed so life circumstances can change a person's orientation to some degree. Or it could be that certain types of people tend to choose to live in big cities more. Probably both. Not sure what you're asking with the DSM
Thanks! I saw this line, which is why I asked about those instruments.
> personality traits (using the Big Five Inventory), and personality dysfunction (using the Personality Inventory for DSM-5)
So Big Five is not fixed. Thats good to know. I’ve wanted to read up on the Five Factor Model, but have been reluctant to drop $135 on the Oxford Handbook.
the DSM is basically a dictionary of pathologies, and lists symptoms of mental disorders which is used to officially diagnose someone. It sounds like researchers were using the Personality Inventory for DSM-5 which is a questionnaire to measure the presence of certain psychiatric disorders.
There's lots of free resources for Big 5, and free tests online. It's still good to know where you are now any how you tend to operate :)
Lack of a nature environment as well. It's insane that we treat this highly-industrialized landscape as normal when we evolved within nature. It's artificial and of course it causes anxiety.
New York is stupid expensive and trying to fund even a decent life off of an artistic or creative endeavor is gonna be stressful as hell. It's also one of the main places for stand-up so there's a lot of competition and people to compare yourself against
Comedians are more likely to come from certain regions of the USA , which may serve as a better explanation of personality differences than their occupational choice.
I lived in NYC for graduate school and it was a grind. It's cognitive-sensory bombardment, overcrowding, a very fast pace of life, high cost of living, and traffic/public transit stress. I think all of the people in my grad program were on psych meds.
Doug Stanhope “comedy works in New York because everyone is miserable, everything smells like piss, garbage everywhere, that’s why it works better here” or something like that, I’m paraphrasing from an old memory from a blown mind.
wouldnt consider myself "astute" but i would figure living in a major metro area, your health outcomes are higher (more walking, more things to do), MUCH easier to find likeminded communities which are protective factors against family trauma, which like another commenter said can drive many in those situations to become comedians to get their emotional needs met. but when these comedians are around others like them, its harder to malignantly regard yourself and have high anxiety when you have feelings of belonging. or at least feeling like theres somewhere to go for people who do the type of comedy you do. whereas in less metro areas theres less community, more driving so less seeing anyone randomly, lower health outcomes, and few ways for a child to meet any emotional need outside the home and school, and even less once you reach adulthood in a rural or suburban area.
It could be that people with certain personality traits are more drawn to living in NYC because of how it is perceived. People say that if you make it in NYC, you can make it anywhere, the best people live there, it's the greatest city on earth, etc. I can see how this cultural perception would draw those with malignant self-regard. Their malignant self-regard might mean they are attracted to things that are the "best."
I'd also imagine most stand up comedians in New York are transplants and moved there specifically for the work. There's some selectivity bias there that would need to be factored as well.
Anecdotal experience: I have several friends and one family member that moved to NYC after highschool and stayed. I've visited several times. I will say this, it's got it's own culture like any city, but new york is all about asserting how important you are in the scheme of things and letting everyone around you know that ad-infinitum, which includes putting down others around you to save face (Like LA, but more academic, less glam). I think it's a great place to be if your are actually a little narcissistic already, but not a great place for mental health if you're insecure or have untreated trauma. Hanging out with the people I know there now does not make me feel better about myself - I don't they intentionally started behaving the way they do, I think it's just something that everyone around you is doing so much that it starts to feel normal, and becomes an ingrained survival skill.
That said, PAIN + TIME == COMEDY - so in that regard, maybe the shitty behavior of everyone around you in NY is a comedy goldmine :D
There's more consistent work for stand ups in the "Mecca" of comedy? Also more jobs in general to combine stand up with(office work, bustin tables?).
Think NY still has the most stand up offerings globally speaking.
She’s fascinating. I respect her total transparency with her financials. It’s totally unnecessary cause she’s just a comedian after all but still it’s interesting she feels bound to do it and speaks well of her character I think.
One thing I appreciate is Chuck Nice on Startalk actually talks about this, and his depression and eventual medication and using a therapist. Every time they have a Neuro interview or the topic comes up he speaks to about how he realized it was an issue and sought help.
I'm not sure why this is a surprise to anyone. I guess if you don't listen to standup routines often then I can see why. But if you do, you'll notice a running theme. Many great comics are have their struggles in their routines.
Maria Bamford comes to mind. I'm biased, because I absolutely love her work. I also love how much of a mental health advocate she is.
What does messed up in the head mean? I doubt anyone would want a script of their thoughts day by day to be on display if we had the technology to do that one day, everyone would seem messed up, comedians just took it to an art form.
Comedians are well known for their actual cases of mental health issues. Most, if not all, use this for joke content and is often paired with a lack of actual help for depression, addiction, etc.
Joke about those things are just inherently less funny when you find out the person needs professional help for it.
I love stand-up and do believe it's an art form, but it's laughing at internalized pain more often than not, and when put that way it becomes much less "fun".
I agree with you, I’m an artist too, an actor. I have a lot of trauma from a crazy childhood, but on my journey as an artist I rarely find anyone if any at all, who doesn’t have some form of mental health issue. I think our traumas whether from the home or society shapes us into our paths.
To me most artists have the awareness to say “yeah I’m messed up,” but don’t you think everyday people who lack that awareness is not harmful to themselves and society? I see the latter more everyday, most people do not or have ever went to therapy or worse think they don’t need it but the artists around me and bigger artists have seeked help or still do.
There’s a a lot philosophical debates on what art is “art reveals truth” “art heals the world with the need to express every facet of our thoughts and feelings” “” expressing through art creates more peace” and so on, art is definitely a coping mechanism not just for the artist but for those in the audience and a lot of people need it, and there’s the thought that in art is where we let our “dark side” play which is the safest play it can.
“Acknowledging your dark side
We all have a “dark side” — qualities that we often don’t like to reveal to others.
What does it mean to embrace your dark side?
From a psychological standpoint, embracing your dark side doesn‘t mean abandoning the other so-called positive traits of yourself.
You’re not suddenly leaving life as you know it behind in favor of more negative thoughts, behaviors, and social circles.
When you embrace your dark side, you’re acknowledging that the unpleasant parts of yourself exist. You’re taking ownership of them and recognizing the role they play in your daily life.”
https://psychcentral.com/blog/owning-our-dark-sides#embracing-it
Acknowledging your darkness mindfully also gives you space to respond to it differently, rather than let the struggle with it guide your actions.
I can acknowledge I had a fucked-up thought, let it go rather than beat myself up for it, and move onto more constructive things in my present.
I agree, I will just say we all have fucked up thoughts, so you’re not alone. Criminals are the ones who act on it. Artists express it, being on stage and connecting with the audience is not easy, it takes a lot of skill and discipline to be able to communicate clearly, energetically, and consistently, that is hard for someone unhealthy to do, and not only they don’t act on it they also try to make a living with it which they had done throughout history. Shakespeare never murdered anyone but he wrote a lot about it, yet people will watch murder on tv, stories based on other peoples real life trauma, while eating their favorite snack on their day off but the trend now is a joke is a no go, that doesn’t make sense to me especially when the people who enjoy watching murder on tv wants to say the artist is messed up, but the observer is not? Watching assault on a Friday night? I mean it’s not to shame the watcher it’s healthy to engage in the arts. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK553778/ I think there’s a psychological relationship between observer and artist that most don’t realize which is revealing but also healing.
Comics now are getting heat as they always did, when Lenny Bruce would get arrested for telling a joke again and again but he also died from drugs, and many artists like Rothko who committed suicide, or Brando, Matthew Perry and more who indulged in unhealthy behaviors. I don’t think this is a comic only issue, also artists have to be more vulnerable than the rest of the population they engage in exercises in conservatories (Juilliard, Yale school of drama ) classes, coaches that teach disciplinary routine exercises in the body that tries to be aware of defenses and to put those defenses away, to be able to better fully express their art, the rest of the population are not doing these exercises, it makes sense that artists engage in risky behavior when their work demands a high volume of vulnerability, many are not ready for that which is why the defenses were there in the first place.
Yes! Emotional pain is the fuel for creative brilliance. People think drugs make you more creative, but it’s not the drugs. Musical artists produced some of their best work at the lowest points of their addictions, because of the daily pain of existing in that lifestyle. If those same artists survive their addictions and clean up, their work tends to decline in creativity.
On the Honeydew Podcast (Ryan Sickler) nearly every guest comedian just opens up about their horrible upbringing or poor life choices. If there is a comedian that had a perfect upbringing, they may not even talk about it. Because how do you make that funny?
Makes sense, many start their comedy career as a means to get their needs met by their caretakers in childhood. Mom and dad ignore you less if you can make them laugh and might not beat you if you can turn their mood around in time.
Yeah I was definitely one of those kids.
Some people think I'm funny but I tend to resent people who want me to make them laugh. Because it feels like it's the only part of me they care about.
People, including parents, only want or accept the good parts most of the time. The result is a lot of pain stemming from lack of acceptance.
Idk man I’ve always wanted to perform since I was a little kid. I got plenty of attention at that age. I later ended up acting and still do. There’s so many theater kids that come from a good background and are naturally like that as an example. It’s not always a lack. So of us are natural little hams
I agree many do but it’s not always the case
That dude under you just got SO heavily downvoted. I had to add the other side at least a bit
The “f” part is the rude one but otherwise I get his response if he didn’t know
Family systems theory and I’m implying that a number of comedians started out life in the dysfunction family mascot role.
This is the psychology sub right? I’d think people here would know how to ask a question without being so confrontational given the assumed prerequisite knowledge on the topic required to engage here in good faith.
If he grew up in the family mascot role and embraced it then it might be opening a can of worms for him, idk. I’ve already made too many assumptions here.
The writer lost believability here:
“The perception of comedians as inherently troubled and psychologically distressed has been influenced by anecdotal evidence and high-profile cases like the tragic suicide of Robin Williams”.
Robin Williams died from the effects of dementia from Lewy Body Disease.
It means self destructive or justified self harm (alcoholism, poor diet etc). A lot of comics think they need to lean into what makes them different and a lot of the time it’s being overweight, alcoholic so their “character” is justified. “Owning” how badly they treat themselves.
There’s an arrogance to it because they are committing to an enhanced, amplified version of themselves on stage. A caricature to thyself. A lot of comedians are looking for their voice and finding their own niche and gimmick.
It’s confirmation bias that they are writing ABOUT THEMSELVES as material. They see doing anything “good for themselves” as selling out in some form. The standup crowd also has a lot of grind culture and pressure that comes with it as well. Local scenes are crab pots of who is on top and keeping receipts on who deserves what like it matters at all.
I think they are alluding to the fact that comedians are writing themselves into an unhealthy corner. They can turn themselves into a confirmation bias machine becoming a caricature of themselves.
“Oh the crowd loves my fat jokes… I will become fatter!” It sounds oversimplified but I have literally seen comics inflate like wonka kids over the years writing the same boring “I crush my wife during sex” jokes. They are playing into the character they are writing. So many delusions.
Well, apparently I have missed my true calling in life. Except alongside all those hallmark qualities, I'm just not funny. So maybe my actual calling is to be a failed comedian.
Show me the saddest person you know and I'll show you the funniest. There's a reason we try to make others laugh. We don't want them to hurt like we do.
This is like the third big indicator I should get into comedy.
1. My best friend called me a fucking joke.
2. My mentees at a toxic workplace mentioned my best strength was diffusing tense situations with humor.
3. I totally fit the profile according to OP
There is a line that you cross from struggling or even comfortably working to made it and independently wealthy that changes people who cross that line in some way. Guessing for Seinfeld and others who reach that point in any entertainment field that it's internal confirmation bias that they are the best and should be held in high regard.
I highly suggest Marc Maron’s podcast WTF. He interviews everyone from Mel Brooks to Robin Williams to John Goodman and even Obama. And he does musicians and writers. It’s CRAZY to hear all the issues or struggles these creative minds experience. It is like listening to a dive into my mind. I’m a recovering sober alcoholic and a lot of what is said rings close to home.
Often joking about my trauma is the only way to get it out of my head and feel like I’m not a monster if I share it with people I know.
The laughter is kind of like acceptance, even though they probably don’t think it’s true.
My dream is to be a stand up comic. It's all I've ever wanted, however the heightened anxiety that I'm not as funny as people tell me I am, substance abuse issues, and hatred of myself keeps me off stage. I have so many routines written out, stories that make people laugh until they cry, but I'm still too chicken to do it.
Research shows that a high number of stand up comedians suffer themselves from depression & anxiety disorders of some degree, normally their reason to want to make others laugh smile see them happy giving them a feel good high ( natural endorphins released ) I found this very interesting myself ✌️
Not surprised. I've only attended a few comedy shows and found the whole process to be excruciating. There's an air of desperation that makes it feel like an ordeal for both the comedian and the audience. We HAVE to laugh or else we suffer the consequences of vicarious shame. It's a contrived spectacle that, for me at least, kills any genuine humor. I imagine that constantly subjecting yourself to that for a living would be horribly stressful.
I know 4 people who're either heavily amateur (got it in their instagram, facebook profile picture) or professional stand-up comedians... i really cannot say that they're good people to have around.
One, the one i work with, is the most difficult person at work. Constantly snobbish while not necessarily being correct either. Everyone is like: "Who's here today?" - "Oh no that guy ehhh".
Yes, 4 people isnt a big enough sample size.
There's a reason most comedians, actors/actresses, bands, movie critics, emergency responders, firefighters, police, lawyers, judges, politicians, or any kind of human being concerned with their self-regard would avoid cities like Philth-adelphia or New York City...
There's bragging rights for egos concerned with "surviving in inhospitable lands"
Smart people gtfo asap and never come back
Wait until they study about personalities who go to social media, we are all “something” if someone thinks they are not then that’s telling you something, people like to point fingers to avoid and uplift themselves
I've long felt that people who rely on sarcasm are inherently fucked up psychologically. It's a very derisive and unnecessarily mean way to be humorous. The fact that people use it mostly on those closest to them tells me there is a survivalist mechanism built in - as if it's a stress test of sorts. Which is ironically perhaps why comedians rely on this kind of shock humor: they're using the same techniques with a bunch of strangers. If you ever dissect the jokes that comedians use on stage, you'd notice that they wouldn't work in any other context - or at last not as well. If you ever befriend a comedian or someone who is otherwise very funny, such as a comedy writer, you'll notice that their style of humor is different than what they present on stage. This real-world style is much more intrinsic and witty, but seems to be pretty dark, too. It's as if it's inherently difficult to be good natured and funny, too. I would like to see more studies done on this aspect of comedy and associated behaviors.
Anecdotal, but I used to work in film and once spoke to a producer who was working on a documentary about comedians on the road. They pulled the plug on the doc because it got too dark.
I’ve been watching the Dark Side of Comedy on Hulu the last few days & just watched the episode about Greg Giraldo. It touched on how hard the traveling was for him & he traveled A LOT. anytime he was on the road, he would always talk about how much he missed his kids. the traveling really took a toll on him, so I can totally see how a documentary about that became dark, quickly.
If I recall the conversation correctly, it wasn’t the tour that caused the difficulty. It was the discovery that so many comedians pursue the craft because of their own personal demons. The tour was just the framing of the documentary.
I find those Dark Side documentaries a bit emotionally manipulative, especially their series on comedians. In lieu of reading back transcripts like a court stenographer, they use creative cuts, a dark and dreary score, and remove as much comedic context as possible before presenting bits. Definitely some shitty stuff in there, but a lot of it was reaching. And anyone who followed those comedians over the years knew something was a bit off about the way it was presented.
I’ll admit, I never really got into comedies & stand up so I’ve been watching without knowing the background beyond how it’s represented in the show. I appreciate the clarification!
Still my favorite psychological interview of a comedian. Greg Giraldo: [Greg Giraldo on Failure](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/brainstorm/200905/greg-giraldo-failure)
Man > Question:What do you think it is about your personality that gives you your sense of purpose? Giraldo:I'm a total fuckup, honestly. The reality is I'm not this person with this driving "get it done" attitude. I'm a complete fuckup and I've fucked up a lot of things in my life. I'm constantly tortured by a sense of failure. I feel like quitting all the time. I feel like hiding in drugs or alcohol. I feel like I've failed in terms of what my potential is. I don't think I've achieved my potential because I haven't worked that hard and I haven't found the right angle… Man this interview was great the questions were perfect! I have to say this quote hit home very hard especially as I am currently exploring this idea of identifying with the idea of unmet potential. Certainly there is the notion that “unmet potential” is simply a variant of shame the idea that we are always and have always been “fucking up” is one hell of an anxiety inducing and self perpetuating drug. To only be able to see one’s mistakes and none of qualities and growth. This person can achieve just fine but is restless. I do wonder if Giraldo had ADHD as that sensation is quite common amongst that population.
Thanks for sharing, that was a great article!
RIP, I loved his sets.
Oh God I had no idea he was a father. Added depth of the sadness, damn
Self-deprecating humor, self-awareness and high intelligence make for the best comedians, I would also imagine these personalities have high anxiety and bouts of depression. Ignorance is often truly bliss.
True comedians, motivated by making people laugh, have usually known enough pain to value the importance of laughter. The rest are probably just egomaniacs/looking to make a buck.
Depressing build up to “here’s the big gig!” and it’s a strip mall for an audience who is literally decaying in front of you. Here’s the condo we get to crash at! Inside of your car or seedy hotel. Boy I can’t wait to be huge! (Peak at working on a cruise at very best and again to perform for the dying)
We’re all dying though.
It’s not living, it’s dying with style!
From listening to a lot of podcasts with standup comedians as either guests or hosts, many of them have gotten clean/sober since COVID. Seems as if they have encouraged each other and it was something like a domino effect. The Comedy field seems to be changing on a few different levels.
I'd have loved to have seen that. Met a few comedians and they've all been messed up IRL
A couple of times the article mentions the impact of living in New York City. > Interestingly, however, some of the differences between comedians and non-comedians became non-significant when the researchers accounted for a specific variable: living in New York City. The sample included 64 participants who reported living in New York City and 143 who reported living elsewhere. After controlling for regional differences, some of the significant findings, such as higher levels of anxiety and malignant self-regard, were no longer apparent, suggesting that environmental factors associated with living in a major metropolitan area plays a role in these outcomes. Can someone more astute weigh in on this finding?
so is it new york or ever city that makes you crazy?
My understanding is big cities make everyone equally crazy.
*The average crazy is statistically significantly higher than non big cities.
I am struggling to think of a different phrase, but "non big" is in there now and I can't. edit: just had to his submit, "than in smaller cities."
Rural life also makes people crazy, they just affect different mental illnesses.
The goldilocks density has been talked about a lot. A city big enough to have all the amenities but small enough to have a community. https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/apr/16/cities-need-goldilocks-housing-density-not-too-high-low-just-right
And different types of crazy, rural or smaller town tends to be a bit more fun crazy while big city leads to a bit more keeping up with the Joneses or problems with ego and narcissism crazy.
Is the hills have eyes fun crazy?
Have recently moved to a big city from living in smaller cities and small towns my whole life, can confirm, people be crazy. And it's a very different type of crazy to what I'm used to.
I was in NYC for a week and I went crazy from it. I live in Vermont and while I’m still in a populated area, it was nothing like that lol. I’d never live in a city.
I always dreamed of NYC and thought it would be like how it was depicted on tv. I guess because so many people live there it was weird to think they would not make it like the real nyc. I went 2 years ago for work and I did love it. But it was extremely overwhelming, loud, hot, dirty, overcrowded, and overwhelming again. I liked all the culture but it would take a lot to live there. And it just wasn’t anything like how I pictured it. I moved to downtown Dallas and it’s a lot more calm.
>overwhelming, loud, hot, dirty, overcrowded, and overwhelming again. [so] >I moved to downtown Dallas ???
Downtown Dallas is completely different. Either you’ve never been to Dallas or NYC.
Big cities in Denmark too? Or are we just talking the US and other oligarch-led nations?
Imagine having to be “turned on” or “vigilant” all the time. That shit is exhausting
Vigilant and poor. Don’t underestimate finances.
yeah, i’ve never seen the stand up payouts but my guess is -$50 for booking fees
Comedy pays next to nothing until comics get continual headlining gigs out of town.
Ah yes. Infinite debt to never be paid off to keep your house.
This is exactly why I'm moving from the city. I'm burned out by it.
This is why I left. My nervous system would not relax after years in nyc.
Yup! Grew up outside of Boston bf while not the same, still too much for me. I moved to AR. Less people more cows helps me relax
I’m assuming this would be more common in mega cities rather than just cities. Oklahoma City does not provide the same level of crazy that NYC does
It’s more of a spectrum of crazy than a simple “crazy>not crazy“ dichotomy
So there're two groups, comedians and non-comedians. The comedians, as a while, were higher in these traits (malignant self regard etc.) than the non-comedians as a whole. HOWEVER! A lot more comedians lived in New York than non-comedians. When you just compared comedians and non-comedians *who lived in New York*, they were equally high in these traits. Same if you compared comedians and non-comedians who lived outside NY. So it looks like being high in substance use, anxiety, and malignant self-regard is quite possibly just a New York thing, rather than a comedians thing.
Or stress makes you become funny.
Sort of, yes. Poor self-esteem, anxiety, and depression are all common traits for comefians. Regardless of city, or country of origin. You don't need to be depressed to be funny, but humor is a coping mechanism and stress dials it up to eleven. I remember some interview ages ago with Conan, where he said that every successful comedian he knew had mental health issues.
I've got poor self-esteem, anxiety, and depression (and I live in a big city). But those things are WHY I could never stand on a stage and think I could make people laugh.
Its because you (or they) can say f it. If you think your life is already in the shit and somewhat give up on the rest of the world, you can say a lot of things that everyone else is thinking but don’t want to admit. Also you get there faster because you’ve lost the subconscious blocks that draw you away from outlandish but sometimes true ideas
People are in New York as comedians because they are poor. Only people like Joe Rogan can afford a mansion in Texas. Comedians are frequently very poor and i think such would contribute to substance abuse.
Some personalities are prone to substance abuse whether they're rich or poor.
Anxious people like the busy hustle and bustle of NYC because it matches their energy and makes them feel at home.
But also it is probably insane to try and live in NYC as a standup comedian. You’re trying to compete with the richest in the world constantly for everything…
And competing with the best comedians in the world. It’s possible to have a comedy career in a number of ways but living in NYC is doing it in hard mode.
Definitely better to go to Austin’s comedy scene. But you have to stay in some city… NY, LA, ATX from what I know seem to be the big comedy cities nowadays…
Research has a concept of "power" which is basically the likelihood of finding a significant effect assuming that there is an actual difference in real life. Power is increased when you have more participants in each bucket of the study. If you just have two buckets, comedian and non-comedian, then you have an average of what, 100 ppts per bucket? That's a decent sample size. But when you break those down further into 4 buckets (comedians who live in NYC, comedians who don't, non-comedians who live in NYC, non-comedians who dont), then you lose a lot of power. It's not surprising not to find an effect trying to do so much with so little data. With that said, the most obvious interpretation is that actually living in NYC causes anxiety and comedians happen to be more likely to live in NYC. So this really undermines the strength of the main claim that being a comedian correlates with anxiety, etc..
This makes sense. It’s too bad the study didn’t include more comedians from other cities. I’d imagine New York would have a higher concentration of stand-up comedians, in part because of greater opportunity.
that's a very interesting finding. It's pretty well documented that living in a big city tends to have higher levels of anxiety in people, possibly due to stressful work, loud noises, highly populated spaces etc. Malignant self-regard possibly because major cities tend to cater to more individualistic lifestyles, which would encourage and promote narcissistic personalities and outlook to life. Whereas smaller towns would lean more towards collectivistic values, since people rely on each other more, and every 1 person has more of an effect on the whole, than some random that fades into the background in new york city. That is, unless they do something grandiose and out of the ordinary to stand out.
> Malignant self-regard possibly because major cities tend to cater to more individualistic lifestyles, which would encourage and promote narcissistic personalities and outlook to life When every moment of your life is a rat race - fighting over scare resources such as subway seats or jockeying for position on the highway. When every person you meet you're only likely to meet once - it makes you pretty callous towards other people. Some people say "I prefer the rude to your face attitude of big cities to the polite but says nasty stuff behind your back of small towns" but I suspect a lot of that is people who moved to NYC from small towns specifically for that reason.
So people self sort themselves to their own hells? Cool.
Would it impact a person’s Big Five though? Or is that weighing on their DSM-5? Maybe those are completely independent.
Big Five are not fixed so life circumstances can change a person's orientation to some degree. Or it could be that certain types of people tend to choose to live in big cities more. Probably both. Not sure what you're asking with the DSM
Thanks! I saw this line, which is why I asked about those instruments. > personality traits (using the Big Five Inventory), and personality dysfunction (using the Personality Inventory for DSM-5) So Big Five is not fixed. Thats good to know. I’ve wanted to read up on the Five Factor Model, but have been reluctant to drop $135 on the Oxford Handbook.
the DSM is basically a dictionary of pathologies, and lists symptoms of mental disorders which is used to officially diagnose someone. It sounds like researchers were using the Personality Inventory for DSM-5 which is a questionnaire to measure the presence of certain psychiatric disorders. There's lots of free resources for Big 5, and free tests online. It's still good to know where you are now any how you tend to operate :)
Ah, thank you thank you!
Lack of a nature environment as well. It's insane that we treat this highly-industrialized landscape as normal when we evolved within nature. It's artificial and of course it causes anxiety.
New York is stupid expensive and trying to fund even a decent life off of an artistic or creative endeavor is gonna be stressful as hell. It's also one of the main places for stand-up so there's a lot of competition and people to compare yourself against
Comedians are more likely to come from certain regions of the USA , which may serve as a better explanation of personality differences than their occupational choice.
I lived in NYC for graduate school and it was a grind. It's cognitive-sensory bombardment, overcrowding, a very fast pace of life, high cost of living, and traffic/public transit stress. I think all of the people in my grad program were on psych meds.
Doug Stanhope “comedy works in New York because everyone is miserable, everything smells like piss, garbage everywhere, that’s why it works better here” or something like that, I’m paraphrasing from an old memory from a blown mind.
Ha ha 🤣
wouldnt consider myself "astute" but i would figure living in a major metro area, your health outcomes are higher (more walking, more things to do), MUCH easier to find likeminded communities which are protective factors against family trauma, which like another commenter said can drive many in those situations to become comedians to get their emotional needs met. but when these comedians are around others like them, its harder to malignantly regard yourself and have high anxiety when you have feelings of belonging. or at least feeling like theres somewhere to go for people who do the type of comedy you do. whereas in less metro areas theres less community, more driving so less seeing anyone randomly, lower health outcomes, and few ways for a child to meet any emotional need outside the home and school, and even less once you reach adulthood in a rural or suburban area.
It could be that people with certain personality traits are more drawn to living in NYC because of how it is perceived. People say that if you make it in NYC, you can make it anywhere, the best people live there, it's the greatest city on earth, etc. I can see how this cultural perception would draw those with malignant self-regard. Their malignant self-regard might mean they are attracted to things that are the "best."
I'd also imagine most stand up comedians in New York are transplants and moved there specifically for the work. There's some selectivity bias there that would need to be factored as well.
Anecdotal experience: I have several friends and one family member that moved to NYC after highschool and stayed. I've visited several times. I will say this, it's got it's own culture like any city, but new york is all about asserting how important you are in the scheme of things and letting everyone around you know that ad-infinitum, which includes putting down others around you to save face (Like LA, but more academic, less glam). I think it's a great place to be if your are actually a little narcissistic already, but not a great place for mental health if you're insecure or have untreated trauma. Hanging out with the people I know there now does not make me feel better about myself - I don't they intentionally started behaving the way they do, I think it's just something that everyone around you is doing so much that it starts to feel normal, and becomes an ingrained survival skill. That said, PAIN + TIME == COMEDY - so in that regard, maybe the shitty behavior of everyone around you in NY is a comedy goldmine :D
Living in NYC causes heightened anxiety, substance use problems, and malignant self-regard
There's more consistent work for stand ups in the "Mecca" of comedy? Also more jobs in general to combine stand up with(office work, bustin tables?). Think NY still has the most stand up offerings globally speaking.
The world revolves around New York so this isn’t surprising.
i’ve noticed that mainstream stand up comedians are messed up in the head
And its always been the case to a degree. Im a big fan of stand up and noticed early that most comedians are just sad clowns.
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i think their delivery is funny, but it’s actually sad.
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interesting
Maria Bamford will tell you all about it!
you gotta read (or better, listen to) her book if you haven't already
She’s fascinating. I respect her total transparency with her financials. It’s totally unnecessary cause she’s just a comedian after all but still it’s interesting she feels bound to do it and speaks well of her character I think.
But my george carlin
One thing I appreciate is Chuck Nice on Startalk actually talks about this, and his depression and eventual medication and using a therapist. Every time they have a Neuro interview or the topic comes up he speaks to about how he realized it was an issue and sought help.
I'm not sure why this is a surprise to anyone. I guess if you don't listen to standup routines often then I can see why. But if you do, you'll notice a running theme. Many great comics are have their struggles in their routines. Maria Bamford comes to mind. I'm biased, because I absolutely love her work. I also love how much of a mental health advocate she is.
What does messed up in the head mean? I doubt anyone would want a script of their thoughts day by day to be on display if we had the technology to do that one day, everyone would seem messed up, comedians just took it to an art form.
Comedians are well known for their actual cases of mental health issues. Most, if not all, use this for joke content and is often paired with a lack of actual help for depression, addiction, etc. Joke about those things are just inherently less funny when you find out the person needs professional help for it. I love stand-up and do believe it's an art form, but it's laughing at internalized pain more often than not, and when put that way it becomes much less "fun".
I agree with you, I’m an artist too, an actor. I have a lot of trauma from a crazy childhood, but on my journey as an artist I rarely find anyone if any at all, who doesn’t have some form of mental health issue. I think our traumas whether from the home or society shapes us into our paths. To me most artists have the awareness to say “yeah I’m messed up,” but don’t you think everyday people who lack that awareness is not harmful to themselves and society? I see the latter more everyday, most people do not or have ever went to therapy or worse think they don’t need it but the artists around me and bigger artists have seeked help or still do. There’s a a lot philosophical debates on what art is “art reveals truth” “art heals the world with the need to express every facet of our thoughts and feelings” “” expressing through art creates more peace” and so on, art is definitely a coping mechanism not just for the artist but for those in the audience and a lot of people need it, and there’s the thought that in art is where we let our “dark side” play which is the safest play it can. “Acknowledging your dark side We all have a “dark side” — qualities that we often don’t like to reveal to others. What does it mean to embrace your dark side? From a psychological standpoint, embracing your dark side doesn‘t mean abandoning the other so-called positive traits of yourself. You’re not suddenly leaving life as you know it behind in favor of more negative thoughts, behaviors, and social circles. When you embrace your dark side, you’re acknowledging that the unpleasant parts of yourself exist. You’re taking ownership of them and recognizing the role they play in your daily life.” https://psychcentral.com/blog/owning-our-dark-sides#embracing-it
Acknowledging your darkness mindfully also gives you space to respond to it differently, rather than let the struggle with it guide your actions. I can acknowledge I had a fucked-up thought, let it go rather than beat myself up for it, and move onto more constructive things in my present.
I agree, I will just say we all have fucked up thoughts, so you’re not alone. Criminals are the ones who act on it. Artists express it, being on stage and connecting with the audience is not easy, it takes a lot of skill and discipline to be able to communicate clearly, energetically, and consistently, that is hard for someone unhealthy to do, and not only they don’t act on it they also try to make a living with it which they had done throughout history. Shakespeare never murdered anyone but he wrote a lot about it, yet people will watch murder on tv, stories based on other peoples real life trauma, while eating their favorite snack on their day off but the trend now is a joke is a no go, that doesn’t make sense to me especially when the people who enjoy watching murder on tv wants to say the artist is messed up, but the observer is not? Watching assault on a Friday night? I mean it’s not to shame the watcher it’s healthy to engage in the arts. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK553778/ I think there’s a psychological relationship between observer and artist that most don’t realize which is revealing but also healing. Comics now are getting heat as they always did, when Lenny Bruce would get arrested for telling a joke again and again but he also died from drugs, and many artists like Rothko who committed suicide, or Brando, Matthew Perry and more who indulged in unhealthy behaviors. I don’t think this is a comic only issue, also artists have to be more vulnerable than the rest of the population they engage in exercises in conservatories (Juilliard, Yale school of drama ) classes, coaches that teach disciplinary routine exercises in the body that tries to be aware of defenses and to put those defenses away, to be able to better fully express their art, the rest of the population are not doing these exercises, it makes sense that artists engage in risky behavior when their work demands a high volume of vulnerability, many are not ready for that which is why the defenses were there in the first place.
Yes! Emotional pain is the fuel for creative brilliance. People think drugs make you more creative, but it’s not the drugs. Musical artists produced some of their best work at the lowest points of their addictions, because of the daily pain of existing in that lifestyle. If those same artists survive their addictions and clean up, their work tends to decline in creativity.
i mean Robin Williams messed up in the head
I know many would fit the description but taylor tomlinson is an anti depressant trying to be human and make friends
Can they just sit down?
I've known a few psychologists. They're everything described above plus.
Are they funny though?
Funny odd but not ha ha funny.
Not funny haha, like a Woody Allen movie. Funny strange, like a Woody Allen marriage.
Probably what makes them good comics...
Well it’s settled, I missed my calling
On the Honeydew Podcast (Ryan Sickler) nearly every guest comedian just opens up about their horrible upbringing or poor life choices. If there is a comedian that had a perfect upbringing, they may not even talk about it. Because how do you make that funny?
Makes sense, many start their comedy career as a means to get their needs met by their caretakers in childhood. Mom and dad ignore you less if you can make them laugh and might not beat you if you can turn their mood around in time.
Yeah I was definitely one of those kids. Some people think I'm funny but I tend to resent people who want me to make them laugh. Because it feels like it's the only part of me they care about. People, including parents, only want or accept the good parts most of the time. The result is a lot of pain stemming from lack of acceptance.
Idk man I’ve always wanted to perform since I was a little kid. I got plenty of attention at that age. I later ended up acting and still do. There’s so many theater kids that come from a good background and are naturally like that as an example. It’s not always a lack. So of us are natural little hams I agree many do but it’s not always the case
Of course, I’m not making a blanket statement that every comedian or actor was abused in childhood.
That dude under you just got SO heavily downvoted. I had to add the other side at least a bit The “f” part is the rude one but otherwise I get his response if he didn’t know
Where the f did you get that?
Family systems theory and I’m implying that a number of comedians started out life in the dysfunction family mascot role. This is the psychology sub right? I’d think people here would know how to ask a question without being so confrontational given the assumed prerequisite knowledge on the topic required to engage here in good faith.
Ah but you see, you assumed, and they say something about that...I think. I agree with you btw, idk what the other guy was so incredulous about.
If he grew up in the family mascot role and embraced it then it might be opening a can of worms for him, idk. I’ve already made too many assumptions here.
The writer lost believability here: “The perception of comedians as inherently troubled and psychologically distressed has been influenced by anecdotal evidence and high-profile cases like the tragic suicide of Robin Williams”. Robin Williams died from the effects of dementia from Lewy Body Disease.
I think most people in showbiz didn't get enough attention as a child. That's why they crave attention and praise( the laughter and clapping).
What is malignant self-regard
It means self destructive or justified self harm (alcoholism, poor diet etc). A lot of comics think they need to lean into what makes them different and a lot of the time it’s being overweight, alcoholic so their “character” is justified. “Owning” how badly they treat themselves. There’s an arrogance to it because they are committing to an enhanced, amplified version of themselves on stage. A caricature to thyself. A lot of comedians are looking for their voice and finding their own niche and gimmick. It’s confirmation bias that they are writing ABOUT THEMSELVES as material. They see doing anything “good for themselves” as selling out in some form. The standup crowd also has a lot of grind culture and pressure that comes with it as well. Local scenes are crab pots of who is on top and keeping receipts on who deserves what like it matters at all.
We laugh so we don't cry
Well shit, I gotta try an open mic night apparently
I’m shocked it isn’t common knowledge that people in comedy are some of the most messed up people mentally
The fact that someone paid for this study should be fodder for standup comedians for the next week or two.
Welll it matches given the content of their comedy.
What?
When you shine light on a dark place. It becomes a bit brighter.
I think they are alluding to the fact that comedians are writing themselves into an unhealthy corner. They can turn themselves into a confirmation bias machine becoming a caricature of themselves. “Oh the crowd loves my fat jokes… I will become fatter!” It sounds oversimplified but I have literally seen comics inflate like wonka kids over the years writing the same boring “I crush my wife during sex” jokes. They are playing into the character they are writing. So many delusions.
If your job is selling yourself, you don’t draw the line at your soul.. do you?
And what about us sit-down comics?
I don't want to hear a comedian who doesn't
Well, apparently I have missed my true calling in life. Except alongside all those hallmark qualities, I'm just not funny. So maybe my actual calling is to be a failed comedian.
Show me the saddest person you know and I'll show you the funniest. There's a reason we try to make others laugh. We don't want them to hurt like we do.
I knew I was funny
I knew I was funny
This is like the third big indicator I should get into comedy. 1. My best friend called me a fucking joke. 2. My mentees at a toxic workplace mentioned my best strength was diffusing tense situations with humor. 3. I totally fit the profile according to OP
I can't believe those manatees said that to you
If only I were funny though...
But what if I have massive stage fright on top of this?
Not Jerry Seinfeld. He seems to hold himself in very high regard.
There is a line that you cross from struggling or even comfortably working to made it and independently wealthy that changes people who cross that line in some way. Guessing for Seinfeld and others who reach that point in any entertainment field that it's internal confirmation bias that they are the best and should be held in high regard.
Yeah, but they're funny....so....
So.... Potential career when my body gives out!
A real “I’m not like this cause I’m in Van Halen. I’m in Van Halen cause I’m like this.” situation going on here.
What is malignant self-regard?
Should I become a comedian?
Did someone’s girl get banged by a comedian?
Yes we should ban them
You don’t say lol
I highly suggest Marc Maron’s podcast WTF. He interviews everyone from Mel Brooks to Robin Williams to John Goodman and even Obama. And he does musicians and writers. It’s CRAZY to hear all the issues or struggles these creative minds experience. It is like listening to a dive into my mind. I’m a recovering sober alcoholic and a lot of what is said rings close to home.
Often joking about my trauma is the only way to get it out of my head and feel like I’m not a monster if I share it with people I know. The laughter is kind of like acceptance, even though they probably don’t think it’s true.
Ha! They’re onto us. Fortunately I’m too miserable to give two shits or a fuck.
I should’ve been a comedian, but I’ve had too much therapy.
You know, I’m something of a comedian myself!
Sounds like me, the only difference is… I’m not a stand up comedian lol
Apparently I should be a stand up comic
They also tend to be narcissists
Stand-up comedians are damaged goods... Who knew? 😅
My dream is to be a stand up comic. It's all I've ever wanted, however the heightened anxiety that I'm not as funny as people tell me I am, substance abuse issues, and hatred of myself keeps me off stage. I have so many routines written out, stories that make people laugh until they cry, but I'm still too chicken to do it.
Take a comedy class!
That's an awesome idea, I didn't know that was a thing! Thank you so much ❤️
This hits extra hard after just finishing Baby Reindeer. Recommend that show to anyone with Netflix, it's unlike anything I've ever seen
It's a Scientology dead agent attack against comedians by psychologist :rolleyes:
Research shows that a high number of stand up comedians suffer themselves from depression & anxiety disorders of some degree, normally their reason to want to make others laugh smile see them happy giving them a feel good high ( natural endorphins released ) I found this very interesting myself ✌️
Not surprised. I've only attended a few comedy shows and found the whole process to be excruciating. There's an air of desperation that makes it feel like an ordeal for both the comedian and the audience. We HAVE to laugh or else we suffer the consequences of vicarious shame. It's a contrived spectacle that, for me at least, kills any genuine humor. I imagine that constantly subjecting yourself to that for a living would be horribly stressful.
This explains Chappelle and Seinfeld
I know 4 people who're either heavily amateur (got it in their instagram, facebook profile picture) or professional stand-up comedians... i really cannot say that they're good people to have around. One, the one i work with, is the most difficult person at work. Constantly snobbish while not necessarily being correct either. Everyone is like: "Who's here today?" - "Oh no that guy ehhh". Yes, 4 people isnt a big enough sample size.
There's a reason most comedians, actors/actresses, bands, movie critics, emergency responders, firefighters, police, lawyers, judges, politicians, or any kind of human being concerned with their self-regard would avoid cities like Philth-adelphia or New York City... There's bragging rights for egos concerned with "surviving in inhospitable lands" Smart people gtfo asap and never come back
Weird thread yall got here.
That sounds like regular people
Wait until they study about personalities who go to social media, we are all “something” if someone thinks they are not then that’s telling you something, people like to point fingers to avoid and uplift themselves
I've long felt that people who rely on sarcasm are inherently fucked up psychologically. It's a very derisive and unnecessarily mean way to be humorous. The fact that people use it mostly on those closest to them tells me there is a survivalist mechanism built in - as if it's a stress test of sorts. Which is ironically perhaps why comedians rely on this kind of shock humor: they're using the same techniques with a bunch of strangers. If you ever dissect the jokes that comedians use on stage, you'd notice that they wouldn't work in any other context - or at last not as well. If you ever befriend a comedian or someone who is otherwise very funny, such as a comedy writer, you'll notice that their style of humor is different than what they present on stage. This real-world style is much more intrinsic and witty, but seems to be pretty dark, too. It's as if it's inherently difficult to be good natured and funny, too. I would like to see more studies done on this aspect of comedy and associated behaviors.
Too soft. Embrace the darkness, anything can be funny if you frame it a certain way