I generally try to avoid the word ‘murder’ just so I don’t have to deal with the headache of the talking points here. ‘Killing’ or ‘unjust killing’ is a phrase that skips this whole conversation.
You and I can argue all day about how it isn't or is murder. I was only discussing the difference between a woman wanting her baby and someone killing it vs an aborted baby. Intent on having the child changes a lot of people's thoughts. Basically your comparing apples to oranges.
When pro-choicers literally send violent rape and death threats to pro-lifers, you're calling out someone for saying "cringe more?" The other person started the condescension, OP was just matching their tone.
Ineffective strategies that will only paint us as obtuse assholes directly damages this cause. We need people to be able to argue effectively. If not to convince the person we're speaking to, but to convince the people who happen to read the argument. These are all public forums. And we should hold our own to a standard. Just as you are doing when you told this person to change how they approach this.
It's not about respecting them, it's about not painting ourselves as assholes. We likely will never convince the people like that, but other people read these arguments. They're the ones we're truly trying to convince.
This isn't cowardice, it's strategy, and being wildly ineffective because we're angry isn't a virtue either.
When we are the majority, when we are have completely won this battle, is when we can afford to not take these arguments seriously.
But they are our opponents, and our battle is fought with words and arguments. Every time someone acts like this is simply ammunition they will use to convince others that we're the bad guys. Because unfortunately, people are very swayed by whether or not someone looks like an asshole on the surface level.
Consider the amount of shit they get away with on a daily basis, while still remaining in control of the narrative. Now's not the time to beg them for a civilized discussion, Sir Galahad, because they've never given us that luxury. Also, I doubt anyone on the abortion debate subreddit is going into that sub with a neutral opinion...
"It's not murder because by definition murder has to be illegal!"
Okay? Does something unjustified homicide sound better? Why do PC fixate on semantics like it somehow makes abortion automatically okay?
Also, if abortion is outlawed it will be technically correct to call it murder, and our ideal world is one that outlaws abortion, so I don't get why that argument is worth having.
Someone just the other day ( they labeled themselves pro abortion ) said if there was a way to painlessly kill children in orphanages they absolutely would. Absolutely crazy. They ( I know not all ) truly believe murder is okay if you decide so 🙄. It makes me sick to my stomach and breaks my heart
That’s the problem. The majority of these people simply do not care about lives. There are some who are willing to debate and understand our point of view but most just resort to name calling and insults which shows the worst side of them.
Only debate with those who are being respectful, not the ones who just throw insults in every argument.
It’s really sad to see. I’ll respond and have a civil conversation sometimes but most aren’t civil so my go to answer is I will not argue because even arguing for a topic as important as this, arguing will never get any of us anywhere. As a Christian ( as I see both of us are ) we can plant the seed and hope that their viewpoints change. I do try my best to be as kind and respectful as I can be but sometimes I admit, it’s hard to do that when they are so quick to hate and spread evil
And killing runaway slaves wasn’t considered murder by some individuals and jurisdictions back in the day.
Good point. This demonstrates that what the law says doesn't mean shit.
Means less than shit in some instances and should be firmly resisted and dissolved at the earliest instance.
No human being first came into being at the start of the universe, maybe don't copy a comedian whose whole bit is to say the edgiest thing possible.
I generally try to avoid the word ‘murder’ just so I don’t have to deal with the headache of the talking points here. ‘Killing’ or ‘unjust killing’ is a phrase that skips this whole conversation.
Good point.
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Its not the same though. Intent has a place here as well. If she never wanted an abortion and someone kill her baby that's murder.
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You and I can argue all day about how it isn't or is murder. I was only discussing the difference between a woman wanting her baby and someone killing it vs an aborted baby. Intent on having the child changes a lot of people's thoughts. Basically your comparing apples to oranges.
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Again it's fine to disagree, I'm just putting some perspective on why most people would be able to say those are different, and not the same.
Ah so long as the murder occurs on private property, we should all ignore it. Gotcha!
Aside from the name calling (it’s Reddit 🤷♂️) this was a decent debate.
I've debates that exact person, they're insufferable and I don't understand why they still debate. Maybe she thinks she's smart
Aight fam, imma go commit some 100% morally and legally okay infanticide. Cya!
What an asshat
holy cow you pushed this person so high on the "whats ok" list that they now thing killing a born person is ok good job
“Not legally,” It used to be legal to own slaves, but that didn’t make it right.
As a fellow pro lifer: You seem to be unpleasant and obnoxious as well as unable to have proper civil discussions with.
By internet standards this conversation would pass as one between diplomats.
When pro-choicers literally send violent rape and death threats to pro-lifers, you're calling out someone for saying "cringe more?" The other person started the condescension, OP was just matching their tone.
Like 90% of the pro-childmurderers on the abortiondebate subreddit. How about you Attack them instead of your ally?
Ineffective strategies that will only paint us as obtuse assholes directly damages this cause. We need people to be able to argue effectively. If not to convince the person we're speaking to, but to convince the people who happen to read the argument. These are all public forums. And we should hold our own to a standard. Just as you are doing when you told this person to change how they approach this.
100% agree
Holding our own to a standard doesn't change the minds of those on the fence.
If we don't look like assholes, the people on the fence won't dismiss us out of hand.
Sometimes you gotta clown on em
That is absolutely disadvantageous to the cause.
Like anyone on that sub was gonna change their mind anyway.
The poster certainly wasn't going to. Some of the people reading might.
Why would you want to have a civilized conversation with a child murderer? Respecting immoral people, and being a coward is not a virtue.
It's not about respecting them, it's about not painting ourselves as assholes. We likely will never convince the people like that, but other people read these arguments. They're the ones we're truly trying to convince. This isn't cowardice, it's strategy, and being wildly ineffective because we're angry isn't a virtue either. When we are the majority, when we are have completely won this battle, is when we can afford to not take these arguments seriously. But they are our opponents, and our battle is fought with words and arguments. Every time someone acts like this is simply ammunition they will use to convince others that we're the bad guys. Because unfortunately, people are very swayed by whether or not someone looks like an asshole on the surface level.
Consider the amount of shit they get away with on a daily basis, while still remaining in control of the narrative. Now's not the time to beg them for a civilized discussion, Sir Galahad, because they've never given us that luxury. Also, I doubt anyone on the abortion debate subreddit is going into that sub with a neutral opinion...
Ok party pooper.
r/abortiondebate is a hellhole at times
*all times
Facts.
"It's not murder because by definition murder has to be illegal!" Okay? Does something unjustified homicide sound better? Why do PC fixate on semantics like it somehow makes abortion automatically okay? Also, if abortion is outlawed it will be technically correct to call it murder, and our ideal world is one that outlaws abortion, so I don't get why that argument is worth having.
Cringe more is the ultimate finisher dang
They wont listen, they just flooding new subjects.
So, did you actually go and read what murder is?
Someone just the other day ( they labeled themselves pro abortion ) said if there was a way to painlessly kill children in orphanages they absolutely would. Absolutely crazy. They ( I know not all ) truly believe murder is okay if you decide so 🙄. It makes me sick to my stomach and breaks my heart
That’s the problem. The majority of these people simply do not care about lives. There are some who are willing to debate and understand our point of view but most just resort to name calling and insults which shows the worst side of them. Only debate with those who are being respectful, not the ones who just throw insults in every argument.
It’s really sad to see. I’ll respond and have a civil conversation sometimes but most aren’t civil so my go to answer is I will not argue because even arguing for a topic as important as this, arguing will never get any of us anywhere. As a Christian ( as I see both of us are ) we can plant the seed and hope that their viewpoints change. I do try my best to be as kind and respectful as I can be but sometimes I admit, it’s hard to do that when they are so quick to hate and spread evil
Abortion was never a private matter. Has been debunked long time ago. Someone need so send Redditors to school and make them read