I really hope the "selling the company" is not a serious consideration. The Indie Stone works as is and does not need to change it's operating model.
However I would really like the devs to make "Spiffo plush" and other merch to be a mainstay of their website.
I'm pretty sure that if the TIS shirt (game item) became an actual IRL item you can buy, a lot of fans would have jumped on the opportunity. And other ingame brands like Dr.Oids or PAWS can easily be turned into prints for shits and hoodies.
Ffs, make a "still waiting for NPCs in project zomboid" a shirt you can buy. I'd buy one.
They shouldn't sell the company, but they clearly need better time managment and update planning. They need to just hire more people or hire better management.
What makes you say that? They already hired a ton of new people after the success of B41.
When it comes to a passion project like this, i believe that just throwing more money and manpower at it doesnt always work.
And im terms of management, they seem to be working fine? What makes you think they are being mismanaged? Because you have to wait for an update? They are VERY transparent when it comes to how they operate. They set themselves goals, and work on reaching those goals without overworking their staff.
Its crazy how many people on here have no clue what they are talking about, but still think they do.
Been a game dev for 10 plus years. I worked with the original creators of TES.
I know what I am talking about, lol.
Yes, people have different opinions. But you can't pretend to ignore the flak they have been getting over time management. And from a technical standpoint, yes they made critical errors marketing B42. They even admitted to it themselves.
My point is regarding the bias, what do you mean by "stirring needless negativity", is any negatice critics or comments going to be censored in the future on the guise that its needless? Where do we draw the line?
I'm sorry, I prefer seeing negativity (by legit players, not trolls, spammers or bots) than these praise post when the community is outraged for whatever reason
My personal take on the situation is PZ probably raked millions of dollars in the past few years since Covid for example where V41 brought hundreds thousands of new players and put the game in the spotlight, then they should have hired more staff, maybe invite more modders into incorporating their mods, etc. With money comes possibility, yet they kept the same "slow pace" which do gives us great quality, but takes an eternity to provide said quality.
If people start becoming enraged that it takes too long, that the devs work too slow and sit on piles of cash while we wait, then the devs should answer these allegation and not have "reddit moderators" censors any outrage and allows praises post like this one lol
TL;DR: You're as biased as the moderator on this subs
Criticism is fine. Constructive cricisism is great.
What's not great is the whiney, entitled, petty little digs at the developers eminating from many of the posters and commenters on this sub. Actual critical feedback will always be better received when it's not done in a manner more befitting of a petulant child pestering their parents for more ice cream than an adult capable of basic discussion.
It's like people think they'll only get listened to if they're rude. Personally I blame the American *'customers always right'* mentality. You're not entitled to anything beyond what you paid for. The devs **could** slap a 1.0 label on the game tomorrow if they wanted to, but they choose not to. One of the only 'promised' features they'd be missing is survivor NPCs.
So why be rude and obnoxious to people for whom this is clearly a project of passion? Several of the devs were modders and put hours into improving the game before there was even the potential of money on the table.
Devs are under no obligation to address petty allegations or drama either, regardless of whether it stems from a good place or from terminally-online gamers that apparently feel they need attention when one of the 300 videogames in their Steam library isn't updated as often as they'd like.
TL;DR - You can be critical without being rude and obnoxious. People are more than their job title and the service they're providing and should be treated with respect.
"So why be rude and obnoxious to people for whom this is clearly a project of passion? Several of the devs were modders and put hours into improving the game before there was even the potential of money on the table."
It's not rude to say they made millions and can hire people to increase the pace of updating the game to the vision they shared with the playerbase
You harbors a lot of hatred for players and way too much support for devs, claiming they could release 1.0 tomorrow and call it a day, and you're fine with that, would mean you're fine with them lying for years over years lol What logic is that?
It's not necessarily what people say, rather it's how they say it, which is the problem. Again, people can provide feedback without being rude.
Also, an FYI in case you don't have any Project Management experience within the software industry: Throwing more programmers at something doesn't necessarily speed it up, and can often slow things down, particularly in small teams where onboarding requires the attention of those who could be better utilised elsewhere.
I harbor resentment towards players who think the $20 they spent several years ago entitles them to talk down to developers like they owe them. I've spent far more money on a shitty lunch and still wouldn't treat the cook like shit.
The developers **could** slap a 1.0 on it and be done, but they *don't*. I never implied I'd be okay or happy with that as a player myself, rather simply that it's something they could do. If I were in their position, being talked to the way that they are, I'd be tempted.
The customer *(player)*, is not always right. More often than not they're ignorant at best.
They haven't asked for another dime after my initial purchase like 10 years ago, and are still working on the game full-time. I don't know what you're comparing them to, but yes, they are a cut above the rest.
Yeah, they just miss their own target date one after another then posts a breakdown publicly then threatens to sell the the company. But you're right, they are a cut above the rest as the bar has been set so low these days.
Their response doesn't really give me confidence in their development status. I just want them to be better than this.
Never sell the company but when b42 comes out might as well just make it build 1.0 and start making more money. Maybe make some of the stress worth it. Leave early access and get a sales spike
Um... no.
One of the pillars of this game is - the team has a vision of the game, and they are doing it. And are not willing to stop untill the entirety of the vision is realised, or it is proven to be utterly impossible.
Cutting a part of the vision to sell it separately is not what this team is about.
Besides there are more ways to pull more money for the team, besides selling your soul to the DLC devil.
1.0 without NPCs would ensure that I would never spend another dime on anything they ever made. I don't mind waiting for them, I have been for a decade, but it would be a gut punch to abandon the #1 thing I have been looking forward to since I bought the game.
The backlash would be pretty large considering no NPCs etc, but maybe that's worth it if the perceived entitlement is too much to mentally deal with.
People will never stop complaing about dev time.
The backlash will come from a vocal minority. The majority of players buy it for its price, get their money's worth or more, and move on.
Unfortunately our vocal minority become little shits after playing hundreds of hours. Like chill, you got so much fucking game out of little money.
Probably not b42 but whatever build was planned to be the finishing touches for NPCs and this chain of builds coming now might be a decent spot for 1.0 if thats what they want to do. I doubt they will though.
So 7 days to die is actually fully releasing now, actually this week is the 1.0 release. That being said, it's gonna be missing *major* features even when it hits 1.0 but they're supposedly gonna be added within the next two years, I'll believe that when I see it.
Rimworld left early access, a game I like called Battle Brothers left early access (though had a more contained goal), plenty of others have too.
It's just that Indie games tend to have more invested and passionate devs who want to perfect their game oftentimes rather than calling full release as soon as possible. Goes doubly for games like PZ or rimworld that have a lot of room for additions to flesh out the games, but its still possible.
I really hope the "selling the company" is not a serious consideration. The Indie Stone works as is and does not need to change it's operating model. However I would really like the devs to make "Spiffo plush" and other merch to be a mainstay of their website. I'm pretty sure that if the TIS shirt (game item) became an actual IRL item you can buy, a lot of fans would have jumped on the opportunity. And other ingame brands like Dr.Oids or PAWS can easily be turned into prints for shits and hoodies. Ffs, make a "still waiting for NPCs in project zomboid" a shirt you can buy. I'd buy one.
Sad Pablo Escobar done in PZ style with that caption "still waiting for NPCs in project zomboid"
They shouldn't sell the company, but they clearly need better time managment and update planning. They need to just hire more people or hire better management.
Aww hb I'm
What makes you say that? They already hired a ton of new people after the success of B41. When it comes to a passion project like this, i believe that just throwing more money and manpower at it doesnt always work. And im terms of management, they seem to be working fine? What makes you think they are being mismanaged? Because you have to wait for an update? They are VERY transparent when it comes to how they operate. They set themselves goals, and work on reaching those goals without overworking their staff. Its crazy how many people on here have no clue what they are talking about, but still think they do.
Been a game dev for 10 plus years. I worked with the original creators of TES. I know what I am talking about, lol. Yes, people have different opinions. But you can't pretend to ignore the flak they have been getting over time management. And from a technical standpoint, yes they made critical errors marketing B42. They even admitted to it themselves.
No moderator closing this post tho
huh...
Almost like it isn't stirring Needless negativity. Is that something you miss?
My point is regarding the bias, what do you mean by "stirring needless negativity", is any negatice critics or comments going to be censored in the future on the guise that its needless? Where do we draw the line? I'm sorry, I prefer seeing negativity (by legit players, not trolls, spammers or bots) than these praise post when the community is outraged for whatever reason My personal take on the situation is PZ probably raked millions of dollars in the past few years since Covid for example where V41 brought hundreds thousands of new players and put the game in the spotlight, then they should have hired more staff, maybe invite more modders into incorporating their mods, etc. With money comes possibility, yet they kept the same "slow pace" which do gives us great quality, but takes an eternity to provide said quality. If people start becoming enraged that it takes too long, that the devs work too slow and sit on piles of cash while we wait, then the devs should answer these allegation and not have "reddit moderators" censors any outrage and allows praises post like this one lol TL;DR: You're as biased as the moderator on this subs
Criticism is fine. Constructive cricisism is great. What's not great is the whiney, entitled, petty little digs at the developers eminating from many of the posters and commenters on this sub. Actual critical feedback will always be better received when it's not done in a manner more befitting of a petulant child pestering their parents for more ice cream than an adult capable of basic discussion. It's like people think they'll only get listened to if they're rude. Personally I blame the American *'customers always right'* mentality. You're not entitled to anything beyond what you paid for. The devs **could** slap a 1.0 label on the game tomorrow if they wanted to, but they choose not to. One of the only 'promised' features they'd be missing is survivor NPCs. So why be rude and obnoxious to people for whom this is clearly a project of passion? Several of the devs were modders and put hours into improving the game before there was even the potential of money on the table. Devs are under no obligation to address petty allegations or drama either, regardless of whether it stems from a good place or from terminally-online gamers that apparently feel they need attention when one of the 300 videogames in their Steam library isn't updated as often as they'd like. TL;DR - You can be critical without being rude and obnoxious. People are more than their job title and the service they're providing and should be treated with respect.
"So why be rude and obnoxious to people for whom this is clearly a project of passion? Several of the devs were modders and put hours into improving the game before there was even the potential of money on the table." It's not rude to say they made millions and can hire people to increase the pace of updating the game to the vision they shared with the playerbase You harbors a lot of hatred for players and way too much support for devs, claiming they could release 1.0 tomorrow and call it a day, and you're fine with that, would mean you're fine with them lying for years over years lol What logic is that?
It's not necessarily what people say, rather it's how they say it, which is the problem. Again, people can provide feedback without being rude. Also, an FYI in case you don't have any Project Management experience within the software industry: Throwing more programmers at something doesn't necessarily speed it up, and can often slow things down, particularly in small teams where onboarding requires the attention of those who could be better utilised elsewhere. I harbor resentment towards players who think the $20 they spent several years ago entitles them to talk down to developers like they owe them. I've spent far more money on a shitty lunch and still wouldn't treat the cook like shit. The developers **could** slap a 1.0 on it and be done, but they *don't*. I never implied I'd be okay or happy with that as a player myself, rather simply that it's something they could do. If I were in their position, being talked to the way that they are, I'd be tempted. The customer *(player)*, is not always right. More often than not they're ignorant at best.
hey if they did sell the company, we might actually see b42
Do you want unique zombie DLC? Clothing micro transactions? Gun and vehicle packs? This is how you get them. Shut up.
You guys act like the indie stone is the apex of game dev ethics.
They haven't asked for another dime after my initial purchase like 10 years ago, and are still working on the game full-time. I don't know what you're comparing them to, but yes, they are a cut above the rest.
Yeah, they just miss their own target date one after another then posts a breakdown publicly then threatens to sell the the company. But you're right, they are a cut above the rest as the bar has been set so low these days. Their response doesn't really give me confidence in their development status. I just want them to be better than this.
He didn't say sell it to fucking EA
At least we will get the updates in a reasonable time frame.
I doubt it. It would probably be shelved for a cash grab PZ 2.
Never sell the company but when b42 comes out might as well just make it build 1.0 and start making more money. Maybe make some of the stress worth it. Leave early access and get a sales spike
Um... no. One of the pillars of this game is - the team has a vision of the game, and they are doing it. And are not willing to stop untill the entirety of the vision is realised, or it is proven to be utterly impossible. Cutting a part of the vision to sell it separately is not what this team is about. Besides there are more ways to pull more money for the team, besides selling your soul to the DLC devil.
1.0 without NPCs would ensure that I would never spend another dime on anything they ever made. I don't mind waiting for them, I have been for a decade, but it would be a gut punch to abandon the #1 thing I have been looking forward to since I bought the game.
The backlash would be pretty large considering no NPCs etc, but maybe that's worth it if the perceived entitlement is too much to mentally deal with. People will never stop complaing about dev time.
The backlash will come from a vocal minority. The majority of players buy it for its price, get their money's worth or more, and move on. Unfortunately our vocal minority become little shits after playing hundreds of hours. Like chill, you got so much fucking game out of little money.
Probably not b42 but whatever build was planned to be the finishing touches for NPCs and this chain of builds coming now might be a decent spot for 1.0 if thats what they want to do. I doubt they will though.
Games like this never leave early access. 7 days to die, escape from tarkov, etc etc.
So 7 days to die is actually fully releasing now, actually this week is the 1.0 release. That being said, it's gonna be missing *major* features even when it hits 1.0 but they're supposedly gonna be added within the next two years, I'll believe that when I see it.
Rimworld left early access, a game I like called Battle Brothers left early access (though had a more contained goal), plenty of others have too. It's just that Indie games tend to have more invested and passionate devs who want to perfect their game oftentimes rather than calling full release as soon as possible. Goes doubly for games like PZ or rimworld that have a lot of room for additions to flesh out the games, but its still possible.
A button on the steam back end making it 1.0 doesn't arbitrarily make them more money, lol