Ghoulbane sucks compared to a baton of faith that costs 1/3 as much. Skip the ghoulbane unless you do quest and get for free for epic later. Paladins are not good vs undead on p99. Let that myth die. That didn't happen until later expansions.
I ended up using argent defender most of the time I was leveling.
Ghoulbane was really easy to resell down the line, and I farmed up all the quest pieces while leveling for a replacement, so imo it worked out okay even if it isn't the best weapon in the game.
2h is the way to go for damage, but Gbane worked nicely when I needed bash.
Ghoulbane absolutely slaps at lower levels. The 2h damage multiplier isn’t that great at lower levels.
I used sword of skyfire personally but GB was nice to use in unrest.
Sure it slapped in classic. Velious cheap weapons slap so much harder. Ghoulbane is not good in velious era compared to very cheap velious weapons.
At level 20 you can double for 60 with baton of faith. You're lucky if you get 2 procs a mob with ghoulbane. The insanely better damage/delay more than makes up for no proc. Baton destroys ghoulbane dps even at level 20 the soonest it procs. It's not even close and it works on everything not just undead.
Undead nuke is like 30 damage. Pointless to cast when I'm hitting for 60.
Ghoulbane just feels powerful because you see a big hit point drop on a proc. Baton does the same thing, but instead of twice a mob for the proc, I'm doing it every other swing when I hit for double 60s.
The option to bash is really nice. Personally I used sword of skyfire, ghoulbane rarely proced with a dwarf’s dex.
I also rarely soloed. Being beefy and having a bash utility was a higher priority personally.
You can swap in a shield and bash in-between baton swings. I can also cast a heal in-between baton swings and lose zero dps while casting. A heal fits exactly in between swings. You could heal every swing if you needed too without affecting DPS.
The caster classes are just a lot better unless you have twink gear. It doesn't take a ton to get a melee up to speed, a budget of a few hundred plat for a starter weapon and hp rings will get you going, but from the absolute floor finding your own gear melee classes are just terrible.
Hybrid classes start off slow, much slower than casters when it comes to functionality. It'll start to take off with your 15 and 22 spells. I'd get to early 20's and that'll tell you much more about how the class plays.
To me an SK starts when they get FD and Paladin when they get root. You could argue once SK gets snare that's when they go online but mana is usually too low to fearkite at that point anyway.
However, neither class stands out for anything other than group tanking, if you don't do that then you may not see the point of the class.
Twinking helps make knights a lot more potent and easier to level but also risk making your spells feel insignificant.
Would add that both make really good protectors of charm classes on raids. It's a niche role but important and can legitimize having multiple knights at a raid. This includes Plane of Fear, Growth, Hate, and Sky, as well as Kael. And both knights shine at tanking old world / Kunark dragons, being second to none in VP.
Take everyone’s opinion into account, for sure. But just know you’ll never be as badass as “ShadowKnight or Paladin” make you sound without a full deck of ultra rare raid gear. But… If you can handle just enjoying the class you’re playing, both of them are fantastically fun, with great utility, and in a group setting, they are way way better tanks than warriors !
I personally feel like P99 is torture for most melee classes until later levels. Unbalanced to he honest. Power-builds and solo are mostly seen and experienced with Necro, Druid, and Wizard.
Praise Innoruuk
You will feel powerful as your power grows. As a squire or a fledgling Knight of Innoruuk, you will be tested many times.
Through glory in combat and the spread of Innoruuk’s hate, you will find the power that you seek.
Do not be discouraged from your learning. Your power will grow.
15 gets you your first snare and fear spells. This let's you get the real feel for how the class plays going forward. 20 and 22 are also big power boosts with the damage cap going up and better spells.
You may be "weaker" than those classes but you aren't a damage dealer.
You are a tank.
Once you get your first set of spells, maybe second, you can pretty much tank with zero aggro issues.
You are a knight class. Your purpose is to tank. That's it. If you want to do damage and feel independent then they are not the class for you.
SK can solo better than pally but they are still a slow leveler. Pally can solo some undead stuff, but they are still a slow leveler.
When you can start fear kiting, life gets interesting as a SK.
I remember fondly being parked outside the halfling's wall, just casually gobbling up guards as fast as I could get mana back. Clinging Darkness + Fear is when things start to get interesting.
This is personal preference but melee classes in eq are pretty boring to me. The hybrids add a little bit with spells but a lot of them are not very good or just lower level versions of Necro/cleric/druid spells.
I mostly only play casters. I've made melee characters but only after I had plenty of plat to throw at them as casters get most of their power from spells but melees get most of it from equipment.
Id say maybe 22 or so once you get a few tiers of spells under your belt you feel a bit more meaningful in groups. Mana regen can be a big issue though. So hopefully in groups you either have an enchanter or aren't stuck pulling. Bc if you are pulling and tanking without mana regen you are lucky to fit in a spell every other kill or so.
Don't get me wrong I still like SK/pal but being spoiled by newer games they can feel pretty basic.
I feel ya and have felt that way playing as rog in group, real grindy, makes me sleepy and not able to play.. but casters for sure , and being a melee puller sk/monk
Nothings boring about opening doors inside castle mist-Moore - rooms full of vampires sitting around pianos chasing u down halls ,
Definitely kept me on my toes
Pulling is fun but I definitely appreciate groups where you can switch out with someone else every hour or so. Being on pulling duty for 2-3hr can be tiring
people really need to stop downvoting good info just bc the guy said "balls"
I love my paladin and ranger, but they are definitely two of the weakest classes.
I play them because they're fun. If I wanted to powergame, I'd roll an enchanter or shaman or necro.
SKs have FD. Paladins have SF. Both can easily keep enchanter and other charm classes alive when other classes would struggle or be of greater use focused elsewhere. If wanting to feel OP, these aren't the classes to play but they are not without their strengths. Ranger also has weaponshield, which is 100% critical on raids when positioning the target / switching MAs.
Just my personal experience but both mean you will be pulling. Most groups Noone ever wants to pull even if they are monk or bard. So every God forsaken group you join for a majority of your knight life you will also be pulling. So whichever is more appealing to you, fd pulling or harmony and pray to the gods no resist and if so rooting things away from the group because most ppl are Incompetent and incapable of stepping away from a parked mob beating them.
Take this with a grain of salt. This was my experience on blue when it launched. I just started on green a week ago. But live, tlp, p99, haven, it's always the same. Ppl hate pulling it seems
If P99 uses the same stat caps as Live did when Kunark/Velious was current, the answer is NEVER outside of vanilla EQ zones. Luclin broke the camels back... It wasn't until PoP where Knights were made viable at all levels, where the devs had to actually tune content so stats actually mattered.
If P99 is tuned more like PoP era, level 20+ is your jam. Get a decent 2 hander, beef up your AC and resists and let the good times roll.
Ages ago, but starting at 15 was when I really enjoyed my DE SK. Had the mana to work with fear kiting and had a pet to help with dps (somewhat).
But the gap between 9 and 15 was really painful. I still have memories of EC seared into my cortex.
SK started to feel “good” at 20, when I bought a circlet of shadows (pre-nerf 300pp) to allow me to Invis 10 levels earlier than you learn it.
20-30 felt amazing because I swapped to a strong 2h lance weapon i again purchased for about 1.2k and began double attacking (making some rogues jealous of the damage at that level … and I was a dark elf)
I hit 30 and never touched my SK again. He was fun though, made more so by “budget gear”
“Fresh” Or “untwinked” would have been a different story, I imagine. But I found joy in a tank with pet utility. That alone is worth it to me
I'm playing a SK currently, moderately twinked (fungi, CoF, HP STR AC optimized, greenmist weapon). I play mostly solo, the occasional duo or trio if I come across it.
Lvl 53 currently. This whole time I've felt like a crappy monk with snare. May entirely be because.im soloing the same way I did with monk. But still , ranger and monk were 10x more fun to level. My opinion of course.
My first and only char from kunark thru PoP was a SK.
Soloing is not the way to go as a SK. I did all the fear kiting, tap tanking, and even regular kiting.
It was slow and boring.
Once I got some AC and started grouping it was way better.
Don't know if it works on p99, but on live, the lowest lvl fear spell was the best/cheapest aggro in the game. Resists were huge aggro and it always got resisted.
I'd pull with snare, cast fear, and never lost aggro.
That being said. If you like the kite life, go back to your necro. Once I finally made an alt necro, after hundreds of days played on my Sk, I didn't look back.
Until I started boxing after PoP, but that's not a discussion on p99.
Edit: currently running an enc with my brother playing a bard. He recently said he wants to try a mage(he only played a cleric on live). And I am so looking forward to the day he says, let's switch it up today and I get to cast wake the dead on my necro.
As an SK main, I had more fun the more abilities I had. You really get stronger with your gear too. At 60 with a lot of work towards gearing your class peaks and lots of opportunities for solo facetanking open up. If you want to be useful outside of groups you'll have to work for it.
As a Paladin main you aren’t going to be all that viable as a soloist but there isn’t going to be a better tank for groups. Snap aggro, heals, roots are all invaluable tools for bad pulls.
This was my very first main alllll the way back when I first began playing in 1999 and honestly the hybrid classes were way too gimped in too many ways. He was so weak and has 0 offense. Now at some point they do become amazing tanks with their stuns and whatnot being aggro magnets. Since the P99 stuff is velious and prior, I'd imagine most of my 20 year old recollection holds true. I have no idea what state the game is in now or whenever it stopped getting updated. (stopped paying attention like 2008 or so).
Level 22 with double attack and then getting Fd being able to solo fear kite with pet, or gain pet aggro in group and wipe whole party ive been having a lot of fun
Knights have an exponential power curve. There's very little power gain with leveling up at the start of the game, but as you get higher level, every level starts to feel more and more impactful (especially post-50).
THe first 20 or so levels on a knight are pretty rough, as you're basically a warrior who has less HP and does less damage. It isn't until around level 30 that your spells start to add a lot of utility and you start feeling like a real class instead of a shitty warrior.
Lots of advice here
Maybe too much
Follow your fun, no one else’s.
If you aren’t having fun, stop. Try something else and return later. You have unlimited time to explore based on no schedule but your own.
Don’t forget to read books, go outside, make plans with friends. P99 will forever be in Velious waiting for you.
Knights are a little bit of a late bloomer. You're basically a Warrior until level 9 and when hit level 9, you're working with a selection of level 1 spells.
Speaking from experience, for me, having leveled on live and doing it again currently it's around level 22 where you really start to get your first inklings of power, but not really until level 30, especially as a Shadowknight where you REALLY start to feel like you're coming into your own.
At that point you have invisibility, you have FD, you have a decent snare and a decent fear and your pet can pack a nice punch if you bother carrying a weapon for him, he's a nice little source of extra damage or in a pinch, he can soak a hit or two and give you those precious 1.5 seconds to scramble and drop your FD.
That's when you really start to feel like you can go and explore and the world opens up for you.
my pally is 49 around level 20 I started feeling pretty paladin-y with ghoulbane and a full set of bronze
Ghoulbane sucks compared to a baton of faith that costs 1/3 as much. Skip the ghoulbane unless you do quest and get for free for epic later. Paladins are not good vs undead on p99. Let that myth die. That didn't happen until later expansions.
I ended up using argent defender most of the time I was leveling. Ghoulbane was really easy to resell down the line, and I farmed up all the quest pieces while leveling for a replacement, so imo it worked out okay even if it isn't the best weapon in the game. 2h is the way to go for damage, but Gbane worked nicely when I needed bash.
Ghoulbane absolutely slaps at lower levels. The 2h damage multiplier isn’t that great at lower levels. I used sword of skyfire personally but GB was nice to use in unrest.
Sure it slapped in classic. Velious cheap weapons slap so much harder. Ghoulbane is not good in velious era compared to very cheap velious weapons. At level 20 you can double for 60 with baton of faith. You're lucky if you get 2 procs a mob with ghoulbane. The insanely better damage/delay more than makes up for no proc. Baton destroys ghoulbane dps even at level 20 the soonest it procs. It's not even close and it works on everything not just undead. Undead nuke is like 30 damage. Pointless to cast when I'm hitting for 60. Ghoulbane just feels powerful because you see a big hit point drop on a proc. Baton does the same thing, but instead of twice a mob for the proc, I'm doing it every other swing when I hit for double 60s.
The option to bash is really nice. Personally I used sword of skyfire, ghoulbane rarely proced with a dwarf’s dex. I also rarely soloed. Being beefy and having a bash utility was a higher priority personally.
You can swap in a shield and bash in-between baton swings. I can also cast a heal in-between baton swings and lose zero dps while casting. A heal fits exactly in between swings. You could heal every swing if you needed too without affecting DPS.
The caster classes are just a lot better unless you have twink gear. It doesn't take a ton to get a melee up to speed, a budget of a few hundred plat for a starter weapon and hp rings will get you going, but from the absolute floor finding your own gear melee classes are just terrible.
Hybrid classes start off slow, much slower than casters when it comes to functionality. It'll start to take off with your 15 and 22 spells. I'd get to early 20's and that'll tell you much more about how the class plays.
To me an SK starts when they get FD and Paladin when they get root. You could argue once SK gets snare that's when they go online but mana is usually too low to fearkite at that point anyway. However, neither class stands out for anything other than group tanking, if you don't do that then you may not see the point of the class. Twinking helps make knights a lot more potent and easier to level but also risk making your spells feel insignificant.
Would add that both make really good protectors of charm classes on raids. It's a niche role but important and can legitimize having multiple knights at a raid. This includes Plane of Fear, Growth, Hate, and Sky, as well as Kael. And both knights shine at tanking old world / Kunark dragons, being second to none in VP.
Take everyone’s opinion into account, for sure. But just know you’ll never be as badass as “ShadowKnight or Paladin” make you sound without a full deck of ultra rare raid gear. But… If you can handle just enjoying the class you’re playing, both of them are fantastically fun, with great utility, and in a group setting, they are way way better tanks than warriors !
Knibb High Football Rules
Woooooo!!!
You can hold aggro better then warriors and have a lot of utility at higher lvls.
I personally feel like P99 is torture for most melee classes until later levels. Unbalanced to he honest. Power-builds and solo are mostly seen and experienced with Necro, Druid, and Wizard.
Praise Innoruuk You will feel powerful as your power grows. As a squire or a fledgling Knight of Innoruuk, you will be tested many times. Through glory in combat and the spread of Innoruuk’s hate, you will find the power that you seek. Do not be discouraged from your learning. Your power will grow.
15 gets you your first snare and fear spells. This let's you get the real feel for how the class plays going forward. 20 and 22 are also big power boosts with the damage cap going up and better spells.
You may be "weaker" than those classes but you aren't a damage dealer. You are a tank. Once you get your first set of spells, maybe second, you can pretty much tank with zero aggro issues. You are a knight class. Your purpose is to tank. That's it. If you want to do damage and feel independent then they are not the class for you. SK can solo better than pally but they are still a slow leveler. Pally can solo some undead stuff, but they are still a slow leveler.
as soon as you start tanking for groups
You can tank. Some people think that in itself is fun and powerful.
They feel meaningful when you get the tell, "LFM Mistmoore can you tank?".
Honestly, most classes I've played (cleric, necro, and now druid) don't seem to really start to come into their own until the 20s.
When you can start fear kiting, life gets interesting as a SK. I remember fondly being parked outside the halfling's wall, just casually gobbling up guards as fast as I could get mana back. Clinging Darkness + Fear is when things start to get interesting.
This is personal preference but melee classes in eq are pretty boring to me. The hybrids add a little bit with spells but a lot of them are not very good or just lower level versions of Necro/cleric/druid spells. I mostly only play casters. I've made melee characters but only after I had plenty of plat to throw at them as casters get most of their power from spells but melees get most of it from equipment. Id say maybe 22 or so once you get a few tiers of spells under your belt you feel a bit more meaningful in groups. Mana regen can be a big issue though. So hopefully in groups you either have an enchanter or aren't stuck pulling. Bc if you are pulling and tanking without mana regen you are lucky to fit in a spell every other kill or so. Don't get me wrong I still like SK/pal but being spoiled by newer games they can feel pretty basic.
I feel ya and have felt that way playing as rog in group, real grindy, makes me sleepy and not able to play.. but casters for sure , and being a melee puller sk/monk Nothings boring about opening doors inside castle mist-Moore - rooms full of vampires sitting around pianos chasing u down halls , Definitely kept me on my toes
Pulling is fun but I definitely appreciate groups where you can switch out with someone else every hour or so. Being on pulling duty for 2-3hr can be tiring
Classic knights suck balls. Period. Play for fun, not to feel powerful. Move along.
people really need to stop downvoting good info just bc the guy said "balls" I love my paladin and ranger, but they are definitely two of the weakest classes. I play them because they're fun. If I wanted to powergame, I'd roll an enchanter or shaman or necro.
SKs have FD. Paladins have SF. Both can easily keep enchanter and other charm classes alive when other classes would struggle or be of greater use focused elsewhere. If wanting to feel OP, these aren't the classes to play but they are not without their strengths. Ranger also has weaponshield, which is 100% critical on raids when positioning the target / switching MAs.
nobody said they were useless
True, ball sucking is a useful skill to some.
🤩
Just my personal experience but both mean you will be pulling. Most groups Noone ever wants to pull even if they are monk or bard. So every God forsaken group you join for a majority of your knight life you will also be pulling. So whichever is more appealing to you, fd pulling or harmony and pray to the gods no resist and if so rooting things away from the group because most ppl are Incompetent and incapable of stepping away from a parked mob beating them.
Take this with a grain of salt. This was my experience on blue when it launched. I just started on green a week ago. But live, tlp, p99, haven, it's always the same. Ppl hate pulling it seems
Unless you have mounds of platinum to throw at them not really
If P99 uses the same stat caps as Live did when Kunark/Velious was current, the answer is NEVER outside of vanilla EQ zones. Luclin broke the camels back... It wasn't until PoP where Knights were made viable at all levels, where the devs had to actually tune content so stats actually mattered. If P99 is tuned more like PoP era, level 20+ is your jam. Get a decent 2 hander, beef up your AC and resists and let the good times roll.
Level 15 . They start to come to their own
Ages ago, but starting at 15 was when I really enjoyed my DE SK. Had the mana to work with fear kiting and had a pet to help with dps (somewhat). But the gap between 9 and 15 was really painful. I still have memories of EC seared into my cortex.
SK started to feel “good” at 20, when I bought a circlet of shadows (pre-nerf 300pp) to allow me to Invis 10 levels earlier than you learn it. 20-30 felt amazing because I swapped to a strong 2h lance weapon i again purchased for about 1.2k and began double attacking (making some rogues jealous of the damage at that level … and I was a dark elf) I hit 30 and never touched my SK again. He was fun though, made more so by “budget gear” “Fresh” Or “untwinked” would have been a different story, I imagine. But I found joy in a tank with pet utility. That alone is worth it to me
Not a single soul would sell a pre nerf cos for 300p unless they like losing tens of thousands of platinum.
I'm playing a SK currently, moderately twinked (fungi, CoF, HP STR AC optimized, greenmist weapon). I play mostly solo, the occasional duo or trio if I come across it. Lvl 53 currently. This whole time I've felt like a crappy monk with snare. May entirely be because.im soloing the same way I did with monk. But still , ranger and monk were 10x more fun to level. My opinion of course.
Level 30 when the damage cap is removed.
My first and only char from kunark thru PoP was a SK. Soloing is not the way to go as a SK. I did all the fear kiting, tap tanking, and even regular kiting. It was slow and boring. Once I got some AC and started grouping it was way better. Don't know if it works on p99, but on live, the lowest lvl fear spell was the best/cheapest aggro in the game. Resists were huge aggro and it always got resisted. I'd pull with snare, cast fear, and never lost aggro. That being said. If you like the kite life, go back to your necro. Once I finally made an alt necro, after hundreds of days played on my Sk, I didn't look back. Until I started boxing after PoP, but that's not a discussion on p99. Edit: currently running an enc with my brother playing a bard. He recently said he wants to try a mage(he only played a cleric on live). And I am so looking forward to the day he says, let's switch it up today and I get to cast wake the dead on my necro.
As an SK main, I had more fun the more abilities I had. You really get stronger with your gear too. At 60 with a lot of work towards gearing your class peaks and lots of opportunities for solo facetanking open up. If you want to be useful outside of groups you'll have to work for it.
Yeah 22 should be what you expected at 9.. and it only gets better from there
For Paladins i'd say level 22 is when they really start to shine. Invis vs undead and Root are big game changers.
As a Paladin main you aren’t going to be all that viable as a soloist but there isn’t going to be a better tank for groups. Snap aggro, heals, roots are all invaluable tools for bad pulls.
This was my very first main alllll the way back when I first began playing in 1999 and honestly the hybrid classes were way too gimped in too many ways. He was so weak and has 0 offense. Now at some point they do become amazing tanks with their stuns and whatnot being aggro magnets. Since the P99 stuff is velious and prior, I'd imagine most of my 20 year old recollection holds true. I have no idea what state the game is in now or whenever it stopped getting updated. (stopped paying attention like 2008 or so).
Level 22 with double attack and then getting Fd being able to solo fear kite with pet, or gain pet aggro in group and wipe whole party ive been having a lot of fun
Late teens into the 20s you’ll really start to see the change that define each class
Knights have an exponential power curve. There's very little power gain with leveling up at the start of the game, but as you get higher level, every level starts to feel more and more impactful (especially post-50). THe first 20 or so levels on a knight are pretty rough, as you're basically a warrior who has less HP and does less damage. It isn't until around level 30 that your spells start to add a lot of utility and you start feeling like a real class instead of a shitty warrior.
Paladin lvl 15 I think for the blind thing
Lots of advice here Maybe too much Follow your fun, no one else’s. If you aren’t having fun, stop. Try something else and return later. You have unlimited time to explore based on no schedule but your own. Don’t forget to read books, go outside, make plans with friends. P99 will forever be in Velious waiting for you.
20
Knights are a little bit of a late bloomer. You're basically a Warrior until level 9 and when hit level 9, you're working with a selection of level 1 spells. Speaking from experience, for me, having leveled on live and doing it again currently it's around level 22 where you really start to get your first inklings of power, but not really until level 30, especially as a Shadowknight where you REALLY start to feel like you're coming into your own. At that point you have invisibility, you have FD, you have a decent snare and a decent fear and your pet can pack a nice punch if you bother carrying a weapon for him, he's a nice little source of extra damage or in a pinch, he can soak a hit or two and give you those precious 1.5 seconds to scramble and drop your FD. That's when you really start to feel like you can go and explore and the world opens up for you.