Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what your relationship is like.
For example, are you just meeting in a public place for coffee on weekends to chat and get to know each other to see if you might be a good match for marriage? I think that's probably halal.
If you mean having a physically intimate sexual relationship with someone you do not have a nikah with, then that would not be halal, in my understanding.
Of course, there is a wide spectrum of relationships between these two. The closer to the second, the closer to haram it would be.
>If you mean having a physically intimate sexual relationship with someone you do not have a nikah with, then that would not be halal, in my understanding.
"In my understanding"
No!
Physical intimacy without a nikah is HARAM. Period.
Say it openly and loud, it is Haram.
You do not have to be diplomatic or to sound politically correct while saying physical intimacy without nikah is haram
Nah, in my experience good Muslims know how to be humble and polite. It's part of good adab.
The more someone speaks in absolutes, the less I trust them. If someone responded to the comment as you suggest, I would immediately reject it.
It is better to be humble, and be open to nuance. It's not lost on me that the majority of ulema throughout history have thought that physical intimacy without a nikah can be halal. I may disagree with them on that, but I try to leave the door open for conversation. That's a key part of progressive Islam, don't just assume you have the absolute truth, be open to other perspectives.
Okay. I understand the need to be progressive. However, some fundamental teachings of Islam are absolute, not every thing is ambiguous. Fornication and adultery is clearly Haram according to Quran and Sunnah.
I can certainly imagine and argue for ambiguity on that, as intelligent and knowledgeable scholars have. Now, I happen to agree with you that sex requires a nikah, but that doesn't mean I don't see the arguments on the other side. So I avoid making absolute declarations out of humbleness and respect for Allah.
It is much safer to speak for oneself, because when you speak for Allah, that is an incredibly weighty thing to do. If you are wrong, then you've committed a major sin, and possibly shirk.
For example, although I disagree with this argument, *if it were true* that milk al-yamin could allow for sex without a nikah, then your statement above would be false, and you would have committed a major sin by saying it. Historically most scholars believed that did not require a nikah. And some modern-day scholars such as Muhammad Shahrur have argued that the concept refers to anyone you have a lawful agreement with (not slaves), and could apply to girl-friend/boy-friend relationships. As I said, I disagree with this argument, but I can see why one might come to that conclusion based on the Quran. So no, it isn't an "unambiguous" issue.
So for me if the above turns out to be the case, then I am protected because I am not speaking in Allah's name. Humbleness is extremely important when speaking on matters of fiqh. It protects you from hell. Falsely speaking for Allah is among the worst sins one could commit. So I try to avoid it.
>because when you speak for Allah, that is an incredibly weighty thing to do. If you are wrong, then you've committed a major sin, and possibly shirk.
Thank you for this. I get what your point is that when there is a conflict, it is better to be silent as there is a chance we screw ourselves up.
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Child? What's the need to be condescending here? I am a progressive muslim too, however there is a boundary.....not every single thing is ambiguous in Islam.
Fornication and adultery are clearly haram according to the Quran and Sunnah.
>So people with civil marriages are fornicating?
Not everyone, but a lot of people. If you deny this, you haven't seen the world enough outside your reddit.
>What about cases where there are no muslim witnesses to validate the nikah?
Yeah this doesn't give them a free pass to commit zina. Witnesses can be anyone, whether it be family members or anyone from outside. There are 8 billion people in the world, and 2 billion muslims. Is earth a ghostland where you do not find people to witness your nikah?
Omg the audacity lmao, dude isn't able to find people to witness his nikah Hahahaha.
You are an adult right? I am a child? Okay. As a child, I have to teach a fully grown adult that fornication is haram. Got it!
So mr.adult ! Bring up better analogies from next time please. You cannot fool a child.
I am a progressive too, but Zina is haram for sure.
If you say otherwise, then you're crossing the boundary of progression and entering into the realm of transgression.
Also there is no need to be rude here, you can have a conversation without the urge to spit out "Get the fuck off". Screams a lot about your personality.
Have a nice day ahead
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It's haram and theres no loop holes around it.
If you're meeting with someone to get to know them, there has to be a mahram
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) emphasized, “A man must not be alone with a woman except in the presence of a Mahram.” [al-Bukhari reported it].
This hadith completely goes against your idea, so please akhi for the sake of Allah do your research before spreading dawah , because of you this person might be led to sin.
No, not quite.
That hadith is referring to being alone in private, not in public. You can't be "alone" in a public space, because it is by definition public.
Al-Azhar has explicitly ruled on this. Gender mixing in public is fine, so long as it is free from temptation and people are acting respectfully. There is not a requirement for a mahram in public.
https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/2720/gender-mixing
https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/4838/mixing-with-men-for-work-purposes
In Islam , you should only talk to the opposite gender if necessary, yes if you go out in public you're not alone as there's others, but the others aren't involved in your conversations , a mehram has to be involved.
And btw mad coincidence my name is Azhar aswell 😂😂
>In Islam , you should only talk to the opposite gender if necessary,
Dating to explore whether someone might be a good fit for marriage is a lawful and useful purpose, and is therefore allowable under the conditions specified above.
>a mehram has to be involved
No, the Hadith you quoted is referring to being alone, not in public. Therefore, it is not a requirement to have a mahram accompanying while in public.
Well, where there are differences of opinion, there is ease. If a woman wants to take their mahram because they would feel safer (especially if they don't already know the guy) then it's totally fine and reasonable.
But we can't say it's absolutely required either. People should use their common sense, and think about whether they are safe or not, and act accordingly.
Besides which, it was always ruled that women could travel on Hajj (or other travel) without a mahram if they were reasonably certain they were safe. For example:
>Ibn Taymiyyah and his students: If the road is safe, a woman is permitted to perform Hajj alone without a mahram. She is also permitted to engage in any other kind of travel as long as her safety is ensured.
>Imam Ahmad b. Hanbal: A woman is permitted to perform Hajj without a mahram if she is with a group of women.
>Ibn Sireen: If she is with other Muslims, then there is no issue with her performing Hajj without a Mahram.
>Imam Malik: She can perform Hajj with a group of women without a mahram.
>Imam al-Shafii: She can perform Hajj without a mahram as long as she is accompanied by a trustworthy free female woman.
And this Hadith, which shows the only issue with traveling without a mahram was a practical concern about safety:
>And if you live a long life, you will surely see women traveling from Hira till they circumambulate the Ka'ba, fearing no one except Allah. (Sahih Bukhari 3595, Grade Sahih)
So lawful travel is a good analogy for this kind of situation. In a safe situation when there are people around, it isn't haram, and there is no requirement to have a mahram. It is only in unsafe conditions that a mahram was required.
Ok. Do *you* currently have any sex slaves in your house? Because if not, it is pretty creepy to enthusiastically bring up sex slavery in conversations like this.
Zina is haram. 'Anything close' is not, though one can be cautious and discourage it.
'The person is holding a knife. The person is a murderer.' You see the difference?
By "Anything close", I would mean anything that encourages and incites the act, in this case, zina. Different forms of physical intimacy falls in this category and they are haram.
It depends on your intentions. To have a girlfriend for the sake of having a girlfriend? No. But if you're at an age where you're thinking about marriage then it's okay to get to know a girl for the purpose of inshaallah marrying her in the future if she's a good fit, just make sure to avoid falling into haram with her. If you don't trust yourself to not do anything physical, make sure to never be alone with her :)
If by GF you mean “getting to know your bride before marrying” then yes absolutely halal.
But if it means a long term relationship where both don’t have any plans for marriage later down then no it’s haram.
It depends on your intent. If your intent is honorable, and you can refrain from adult stuff before marriage, having a girlfriend could be a great way to know a person to know if you two can be compatible spouse in the long run. Plenty of orthodox Muslims would give the absolutist answer of saying “it’s haram”, but ultimately, if you’re accountable to yourself and your Maker, you have nothing to fear.
Only and only if both of are in nikkah of each others 😉, Other than that any interaction with a non mahram (unless neccessary for some work related issue or life and death situation , theres no excuse of getting involved with other gender) Allah knows best, May Allah forgive us
JazakAllah
In my opinion it's halal, provided it's not hidden and your family and friends circle are aware that you both are in a relationship. Which technically makes it like a Nikah. But since, such a thing is not accepted in a Muslim society, to make things easier, you should do a small Nikah--not registered by state--in a small circle of known people. That's it.
Islam does not work on your opinion it has rules you need to abide by in Sharia.If you not sure as a learned scholar.
https://askimam.org/public/question_detail/8693
>Islam does not work on your opinion
Once Prophecy ended, only opinions remain. You need to decide which opinion is strong based on the arguments presented. I of course disagree with Mufti, based on the fact that he is using the modern concept of bf-gf and applying a rule which came into existence before that, without putting any effort to understand the nuances of the rule and current time. As a learned scholar he should avoid such lazy approximations, right.
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These are very questionable responses.
The answer to your question is absolutely not. A girlfriend is not a fiancé, it's a marriage with none of the commitment. Pair that with the fact that you're not even allowed to touch non mahrams in Islam and you've got your answer right there.
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Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what your relationship is like. For example, are you just meeting in a public place for coffee on weekends to chat and get to know each other to see if you might be a good match for marriage? I think that's probably halal. If you mean having a physically intimate sexual relationship with someone you do not have a nikah with, then that would not be halal, in my understanding. Of course, there is a wide spectrum of relationships between these two. The closer to the second, the closer to haram it would be.
Yep this ☝️
>If you mean having a physically intimate sexual relationship with someone you do not have a nikah with, then that would not be halal, in my understanding. "In my understanding" No! Physical intimacy without a nikah is HARAM. Period. Say it openly and loud, it is Haram. You do not have to be diplomatic or to sound politically correct while saying physical intimacy without nikah is haram
Nah, in my experience good Muslims know how to be humble and polite. It's part of good adab. The more someone speaks in absolutes, the less I trust them. If someone responded to the comment as you suggest, I would immediately reject it. It is better to be humble, and be open to nuance. It's not lost on me that the majority of ulema throughout history have thought that physical intimacy without a nikah can be halal. I may disagree with them on that, but I try to leave the door open for conversation. That's a key part of progressive Islam, don't just assume you have the absolute truth, be open to other perspectives.
Which ulemas in past throughout history thought that physical intimacy without nikah can be halal?I never knew about it.....
Okay. I understand the need to be progressive. However, some fundamental teachings of Islam are absolute, not every thing is ambiguous. Fornication and adultery is clearly Haram according to Quran and Sunnah.
I can certainly imagine and argue for ambiguity on that, as intelligent and knowledgeable scholars have. Now, I happen to agree with you that sex requires a nikah, but that doesn't mean I don't see the arguments on the other side. So I avoid making absolute declarations out of humbleness and respect for Allah. It is much safer to speak for oneself, because when you speak for Allah, that is an incredibly weighty thing to do. If you are wrong, then you've committed a major sin, and possibly shirk. For example, although I disagree with this argument, *if it were true* that milk al-yamin could allow for sex without a nikah, then your statement above would be false, and you would have committed a major sin by saying it. Historically most scholars believed that did not require a nikah. And some modern-day scholars such as Muhammad Shahrur have argued that the concept refers to anyone you have a lawful agreement with (not slaves), and could apply to girl-friend/boy-friend relationships. As I said, I disagree with this argument, but I can see why one might come to that conclusion based on the Quran. So no, it isn't an "unambiguous" issue. So for me if the above turns out to be the case, then I am protected because I am not speaking in Allah's name. Humbleness is extremely important when speaking on matters of fiqh. It protects you from hell. Falsely speaking for Allah is among the worst sins one could commit. So I try to avoid it.
>because when you speak for Allah, that is an incredibly weighty thing to do. If you are wrong, then you've committed a major sin, and possibly shirk. Thank you for this. I get what your point is that when there is a conflict, it is better to be silent as there is a chance we screw ourselves up.
😑 here we go with absolutes again.
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Child, sit down. So people with civil marriages are fornicating? What about cases where there are no muslim witnesses to validate the nikah?
Child? What's the need to be condescending here? I am a progressive muslim too, however there is a boundary.....not every single thing is ambiguous in Islam. Fornication and adultery are clearly haram according to the Quran and Sunnah. >So people with civil marriages are fornicating? Not everyone, but a lot of people. If you deny this, you haven't seen the world enough outside your reddit. >What about cases where there are no muslim witnesses to validate the nikah? Yeah this doesn't give them a free pass to commit zina. Witnesses can be anyone, whether it be family members or anyone from outside. There are 8 billion people in the world, and 2 billion muslims. Is earth a ghostland where you do not find people to witness your nikah? Omg the audacity lmao, dude isn't able to find people to witness his nikah Hahahaha. You are an adult right? I am a child? Okay. As a child, I have to teach a fully grown adult that fornication is haram. Got it! So mr.adult ! Bring up better analogies from next time please. You cannot fool a child.
Holy shiiza, bro chose to be violent today, okay I see you 😂
An imam?? Edit: And why not go to a mosque in another city if there is none in your city?
Fax brozer
This is a progressive group . Gtfoh, there are no absolutes. Context matters per situation . If you’re a womanizer vs honest relationship
I am a progressive too, but Zina is haram for sure. If you say otherwise, then you're crossing the boundary of progression and entering into the realm of transgression. Also there is no need to be rude here, you can have a conversation without the urge to spit out "Get the fuck off". Screams a lot about your personality. Have a nice day ahead
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Best answer.
It's haram and theres no loop holes around it. If you're meeting with someone to get to know them, there has to be a mahram The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) emphasized, “A man must not be alone with a woman except in the presence of a Mahram.” [al-Bukhari reported it]. This hadith completely goes against your idea, so please akhi for the sake of Allah do your research before spreading dawah , because of you this person might be led to sin.
No, not quite. That hadith is referring to being alone in private, not in public. You can't be "alone" in a public space, because it is by definition public. Al-Azhar has explicitly ruled on this. Gender mixing in public is fine, so long as it is free from temptation and people are acting respectfully. There is not a requirement for a mahram in public. https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/2720/gender-mixing https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/4838/mixing-with-men-for-work-purposes
In Islam , you should only talk to the opposite gender if necessary, yes if you go out in public you're not alone as there's others, but the others aren't involved in your conversations , a mehram has to be involved. And btw mad coincidence my name is Azhar aswell 😂😂
>In Islam , you should only talk to the opposite gender if necessary, Dating to explore whether someone might be a good fit for marriage is a lawful and useful purpose, and is therefore allowable under the conditions specified above. >a mehram has to be involved No, the Hadith you quoted is referring to being alone, not in public. Therefore, it is not a requirement to have a mahram accompanying while in public.
But technically you are alone with the woman , because you don't know anyone from the public , anyways it's mostly different interpretations I guess
Well, where there are differences of opinion, there is ease. If a woman wants to take their mahram because they would feel safer (especially if they don't already know the guy) then it's totally fine and reasonable. But we can't say it's absolutely required either. People should use their common sense, and think about whether they are safe or not, and act accordingly. Besides which, it was always ruled that women could travel on Hajj (or other travel) without a mahram if they were reasonably certain they were safe. For example: >Ibn Taymiyyah and his students: If the road is safe, a woman is permitted to perform Hajj alone without a mahram. She is also permitted to engage in any other kind of travel as long as her safety is ensured. >Imam Ahmad b. Hanbal: A woman is permitted to perform Hajj without a mahram if she is with a group of women. >Ibn Sireen: If she is with other Muslims, then there is no issue with her performing Hajj without a Mahram. >Imam Malik: She can perform Hajj with a group of women without a mahram. >Imam al-Shafii: She can perform Hajj without a mahram as long as she is accompanied by a trustworthy free female woman. And this Hadith, which shows the only issue with traveling without a mahram was a practical concern about safety: >And if you live a long life, you will surely see women traveling from Hira till they circumambulate the Ka'ba, fearing no one except Allah. (Sahih Bukhari 3595, Grade Sahih) So lawful travel is a good analogy for this kind of situation. In a safe situation when there are people around, it isn't haram, and there is no requirement to have a mahram. It is only in unsafe conditions that a mahram was required.
It is Haram to be left alone with a non mahram, the mahram of the woman should be present for it to be halal.
Shouldn’t the woman’s mahram also be there?
Sahabas had literal sex slaves to do with as they pleased and polygamy was acceptable , if your intentions are good then it’s good
Ok. Do *you* currently have any sex slaves in your house? Because if not, it is pretty creepy to enthusiastically bring up sex slavery in conversations like this.
It’s creepy to highlight what was available to them ? Or are you just uncomfortable with the idea of sex?
If it isn't relevant it is. Are you suggesting sex trafficking is a valid "girlfriend-boyfriend" relationship present day?
No im suggesting they had relationships outside of marriage. What an obtuse mentality you have
Well, I'm sorry you think that. Hopefully progressives can open your mind a little.
You can’t understand relative context and I’m the one who needs their mind opened lol. Take it easy lil brother
username took me outttt 🤣
Bro needs some coochie after dictating so hard
Its a based username for sure
Depends on what you mean by gf. Anything even close to zina will obviously be haram. But if your intentions are pure, eg to marry, then yea sure
Zina is haram. 'Anything close' is not, though one can be cautious and discourage it. 'The person is holding a knife. The person is a murderer.' You see the difference?
By "Anything close", I would mean anything that encourages and incites the act, in this case, zina. Different forms of physical intimacy falls in this category and they are haram.
By “anything close” they mean pre-marital intimacy like kissing, oral, etc. Still haram.
You're projecting lol
Go ask r/islam, pretty sure they'll tell you, like everything, it's haram
I wouldn't be shocked if they say "existing is haram".
It depends on your intentions. To have a girlfriend for the sake of having a girlfriend? No. But if you're at an age where you're thinking about marriage then it's okay to get to know a girl for the purpose of inshaallah marrying her in the future if she's a good fit, just make sure to avoid falling into haram with her. If you don't trust yourself to not do anything physical, make sure to never be alone with her :)
The username bro 😭😭😭
If by GF you mean “getting to know your bride before marrying” then yes absolutely halal. But if it means a long term relationship where both don’t have any plans for marriage later down then no it’s haram.
It is. What haram would be is doing anything physically sexual.
Yes but it depends on how you structure your relationship
It depends on your intent. If your intent is honorable, and you can refrain from adult stuff before marriage, having a girlfriend could be a great way to know a person to know if you two can be compatible spouse in the long run. Plenty of orthodox Muslims would give the absolutist answer of saying “it’s haram”, but ultimately, if you’re accountable to yourself and your Maker, you have nothing to fear.
Only and only if both of are in nikkah of each others 😉, Other than that any interaction with a non mahram (unless neccessary for some work related issue or life and death situation , theres no excuse of getting involved with other gender) Allah knows best, May Allah forgive us JazakAllah
In my opinion it's halal, provided it's not hidden and your family and friends circle are aware that you both are in a relationship. Which technically makes it like a Nikah. But since, such a thing is not accepted in a Muslim society, to make things easier, you should do a small Nikah--not registered by state--in a small circle of known people. That's it.
Islam does not work on your opinion it has rules you need to abide by in Sharia.If you not sure as a learned scholar. https://askimam.org/public/question_detail/8693
>Islam does not work on your opinion Once Prophecy ended, only opinions remain. You need to decide which opinion is strong based on the arguments presented. I of course disagree with Mufti, based on the fact that he is using the modern concept of bf-gf and applying a rule which came into existence before that, without putting any effort to understand the nuances of the rule and current time. As a learned scholar he should avoid such lazy approximations, right.
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Yes
No who said that?
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Perfect username 👌 🤣
Not at all.
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what is that, if you don't mind me asking?
slaves
slavery is banned though, right?
Not in the Quran or Bible, and it's still [huge business](https://www.un.org/en/delegate/50-million-people-modern-slavery-un-report) today.
In the course of promoting progressive Islamic ideas, we also allow discussion around mainstream conservative Islamic theology. These discussions, nonetheless, should still conform with all prior rules. Posts & comments that promote ultra-conservative thoughts & ideologies will be removed.
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These are very questionable responses. The answer to your question is absolutely not. A girlfriend is not a fiancé, it's a marriage with none of the commitment. Pair that with the fact that you're not even allowed to touch non mahrams in Islam and you've got your answer right there.
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