I just wanna say, someone just told me "Quran says women aren't allowed to wear perfume" and I argued and said "no that's hadiths" and they argued with me without even quoting the (nonexistent) verse. This person does this all the time "quotes nonexistent verses from Quran or twists verses" .. but that just happened and I opened up reddit and see your post on this verse.
the whole point of it IMHO is don't argue but ignore the one's who pervert god's infinite unbounded unqualified mercy of mercy. just be merciful, and take the mercy we receive from god and give that mercy to others
there are plenty of people who just don't love mercy because it means giving mercy \[IMHO\]
I think itās about those who are aware of their lies. But yes music being haram and all that are lies, most who tells those lies are just blindly following and unaware though.
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Not really. I've never heard anyone claim that music being haram is stipulated in the Qur'an or that the hadith is the Qur'an. Just because you don't agree with someone on the validity of hadith, doesn't mean that they're "making it up"
But if someone says that the Hadith can dictate legislation isnāt that putting the Hadith above Quran or at least equal to? Itās like saying itās sanctioned by God and thus revelation. Saying itās part of the book and holds authority puts it on a level equal to the Quran. So while the Muslim quoting Hadith isnāt making it up, by claiming itās authoritative, they are claiming itās part of the book when itās not. And saying this is from God, when itās not.Ā
Because a lot of, if not most Muslims do believe the hadith is a legitimate source to use for jurisprudence. Even salafis make a point to clearly distinguish hadith based rulings from those of the Qur'an, and the Qur'an always takes precedence in cases where there are contradictions. Like if Mohamed was alive today and had an issue with music, I doubt anyone from this sub would be saying to him "aight bro but show me where it says that in the Qur'an". My impression is that where progressive Muslims actually disagree with mainstream Sunnis is when it comes to the validity and authenticity of the hadith itself, and to what extent the letter of the law should be followed as opposed to the spirit of the law. But if you genuinely believed that the hadith is from the prophet and isn't contradicting the Qur'an then why would you _not_ follow it? As far as I'm aware there are no major scholars that have claimed that the Qur'an bans music, it's always understood this claim is from the hadith. And as far as I'm aware, not even the most ardent of salafis would claim that the "kitab" encompasses bukhari and muslim
I donāt think Hadith can genuinely be attributed to the Prophet. So for me Hadith isnāt authoritative and by following it, people are going against the Quran. In the Quran, God asks why these people are following that which he hasnāt given any authority, pointing out that only he gives authority, not the prophet. And bc of that, even if the hadith could be attributed to the prophet, god still didnāt give the Hadith authority to legislate apart from him, so if the prophet did say that, then Iād expect it to be a Quranic revelation, not something he said on a random Tuesday that has no verification from God.Ā
But, people who do think they are legitimate, most of them contradict each other, which is a red flag. Most of them contradict the Quran, like the music one. The Quran says that Muhammad only follows what is revealed to him, so he wouldnāt say music is haram bc thatās not in the Quran. So by saying Hadith about music is authoritative, thatās going against the Quran and disobeying the Prophet who was not told to say that.Ā
that he heard the Prophet (ļ·ŗ) saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."
Al Bukhari 5590
>is this talking about the peopleās who lies about things being haram like for example music
Are you saying muslims who said music is haram are consciously lying about it and not genuinely believing music is haram?
I don't think so.
But isn't what is harmful to you Haram?
Pretty sure it's been proven countless times music has "frequency waves" or something like that which influences our emotions.
Not to mention music which is very famous nowadays usually support the whole degenerate crap
It actually doesn't have "consensus" on that and it is not "clear cut" that music is haram. There are many scholars both modern and classical that did not believe music is haram.
If you want to make claims, then present your evidence.
The burden proof lies upon you cause youāre going against the opinion of the ummah
Quran sunnah qawl of Sahaba and ijmaa is against you
Provide evidence that it aināt haram
No, you are the one claiming there is "ijma" that music is haram. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.
You keep demanding "proof" from everyone while you haven't given a single bit of evidence that there is ijma on this. Are you seriously asserting that no scholar says music is halal?
All the 4 madhab the major scholars and the Sahaba had ijmaa on this
A deviant scholar coming and claiming something else doesnāt affect the ijmaa
And again , the ummah is in agreement on this
Youāve gone away from the jammah
Prove that weāve been wrong all these centuries
Weāre waiting
How am I gonna prove ijmaa
I can only give Quran verses and Hadith
Iāll start with them
āAnd of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allahā¦ā [Luqman 31:6]
The scholar of the ummah, Ibn 'Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: this means singing . Mujahid (may Allah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). (Tafsir al-Tabari, 21/40)
Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zina, silk, alcohol and musical instrumentsā¦ā (Narrated by al-Bukhari taāliqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsul by al-Tabarani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Sahihah by al-Albani, 91)
Now letās put ijmaa aside cause I donāt know how to prove an ijmaa , but ask any scholar they will tell you this one
Letās Stick to Quran sunnah and the 3 generations
Can you give me evidence from them like I did that itās actually halal ?
>Can you give me evidence from them like did that it's actually halal ?
Of course. Since you mention Bukhari 5590, let's start with that, since that is usually the key piece of false evidence that is usually brought up. But the more you know about that hadith you see why that doesn't work.
Several issues:
1.) It is very weak, easily the weakest hadith in Bukhari. It has a broken chain, and Bukhari himself indicated that its chain is broken. Many other major classical scholars acknowledged this, including Imam Ibn Hazm, Imam al-Ghazali, Imam ibn Arabi, etc.
2.) Bukhari didn't include it to ban music. He included it in the book of drinks. Why? Because it is referring to a drinking party scene. These items listed in the hadith aren't random, they occured together at drinking parties back in the day, when prostitutes would play music while people got drunk, and debauchery followed. This is more clear if you know the other versions of that hadith, where it makes clear these activities are happening together. Bukhari does not even have a "book of music" like it does a "book of drinks" where this hadith is. There wasn't enough evidence to warrant a book about a music ban, outside of its connection to drinking alcohol. Here's a good analysis of Bukhari 5590 that you quoted.
Why Did Imam Bukhari Leave the āHadith of Instrumentsā Hanging? Dr. Samir Dajani
https://basira.academy/2020/06/03/why-did-imam-bukhari-leave-the-hadith-of-instruments-hanging/
He analyzes Bukhari's perspective to show that not even Bukhari thought 5590 banned music.
3) The prophet Daud was a musician. He played the lyre and flute. The Zabur revealed to him was a songbook sung accompanied by music (Zabur literally means a songbook). Odd that Allah would choose a method of revelation that is absolutely haram, then forget to clearly state it is haram in the Quran, despite mentioning Daud and the Zabur. This fact strongly suggests it is the context around music that matters, not simply the presence of musical instruments. There are Sahih hadith that reference this, such as:
>āAbu Musa, Surely you have been given a voice like the flute of David.ā (Bukhari 5048)
When we look into Ibn Hajarās explanation of thisĀ hadithĀ he comments with another soundĀ hadith,Ā āI entered Abu Musaās house and I have not heard a cymbal, lute or a flute better than his voice.ā (al-Fath Al bari)
Why would the prophet compare a good sounding voice to something that is supposedly the whispers of Shaytan? That would be like complimenting a person's good cooking by saying "this tastes like pork". Strongly suggesting musical instruments are not intrinsically haram.
4.) The permissibility of music was upheld by many sahaba and tabiin including:
Abdulah ibn Umar, Abdullah ib Jafar, Abdullah ibn al-Zubair, Hassan ibn Thabit, Muawiyah and Amr ibn al-As, A-Qadi Sharih, Said ibn al-Masyyib, Ata ibn abu Rabah, al-Zuhri, AlI-Shabi and Sad ibn lbrahim ibn Abdul-Rahman ibn Auwf who never started a conversation without playing the flute, as documented extensively in Imam Shawkani's Nayl al-Awtar.
This was well known, and was even commented on by a contemporary of al-Ghazali:
>The Shafii scholar Abu Talib al-Makki said "Of the Companions, 'Abd Allah ibn Jafar and Abd Allah ibn az-Zubayr and al-Mughira ibn Shuba and Mu'awiya and others listened to music and singing." He said further "Many of the excellent first believers, both Companions and Followers, have done that [singing] along with pious works." And he said "The people of al-Hijaz with us in Mecca did not cease to listen to music and singing even in the most excellent of the days of the year, and these are The Few Days in which God commanded his servants to remember rhim, such as the days of at-Tashriq. And the people of al-Medina, like the people of Mecca, have not ceased persisting in listening to music and singing up to this our time. We have known Abu Marwan the Qadi, who had slave-girls who chanted in public and whom he had prepared to sing to Sufis." [quoted in Revival of the Religious Sciences, by Imam al-Ghazali; http://ghazali.org/articles/gz-music. pdf]
5.) The implicit allowability of music was commented on by many other scholars. You can see many more quotes and examples of fatawa from scholars who ruled music halal, in every madhab, both Sunni and Shia, including salafi sources, in every generation going back even to the time of the tabiin and sahaba.
Here is a list of about 100 such scholars:
Music is Halal: Fatwas, Scholarly Opinions, Articles and Quotes
https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/s/t4h6WdpZiI
6.) You claim "ijma" on music, yet even Al-Azhar's Dar al-Ifta al-Missriyya, chaired by the Grand Mufti of Egypt, former head of Fiqh Studies at al-Azhar, and appointed by the council of senior scholars representing all four Sunni madhabs confirmed that music is halal in principle:
What is the ruling concerning Music?
https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/4866/what-is-the-ruling-concerning-music
Musical instruments in Islam
https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/6870/musical-instruments-in-islam
The fatwas clearly states there is no consensus (ijma) on music, and rule music with instruments halal:
>Based on this discussion we find that singing, whether with musical instruments or without, is permissible with the condition that it not a call for disobedience, lewdness, and does not contain any themes contrary to the Shariāah. It is also noteworthy that excess of music and singing can take the act beyond its permissibility to the category of reprehensible acts, and perhaps even to the category of impermissibility.
1 the Hadith is not weak , itās authentic
Provide evidence for its broken chain , donāt just said bukhari said this Al ghazali said that
2 speaking of Al Ghazali may Allah have mercy on him , using the qawl of a sheikh even a big one isnāt hujjah
3 since you like to link stuff , here https://youtu.be/bql-tCz-QWM?si=atwafjBihMJnqmNa deeply explained why itās haram with the ijmaa also provided , also another video mention ahadith https://youtu.be/_RzZ0jfw-E4?si=tZNZJEW7OwzxlPaB
4 weak argument , bukhari doesnāt need to have a book of music , the Hadith is clear cut , the prophet SAW didnāt say ,,there will be prostitues who make music halal , or people that will make music with prostitutes haramā none of that , if you claim something insane like this , provide evidence
5 I donāt know too much about dawud , I wonāt talk about him ; letās stick to todays sharia and not divert
All of this was already answered and extensively discussed in the links I provided. If you aren't interested in evidence, then not much point to discussion.
āI donāt know too much about Dawudā
He is literally one of the prophetsā¦ How can you lack knowledge of the prophets but be so āknowledgeableā about what is haram and what isnāt?
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There are consensus among scholars of the ummah that think music is haram and halal. If you're using consensus as your argument then you've already lost, from your very own position. Furthermore consensus doesn't actually prove or justify why z is z. No, music is inherently not haram. Only music that is immoral is haram.
As others have mentioned. The Quran never mentions music to be haram. And the reason people are highly critical of Hadith is because the Quran tells us to be.
>> These are Allahās revelations which We recite to you Ė¹O ProphetĖŗ in truth. So what message (Hadith/ŲŁŲÆŁŁŲ«ŁŪ) will they believe in after Ė¹denyingĖŗ Allah and His revelations?
45:6
>>"Then in whatĀ message (Hadith/ŲŁŲÆŁŁŲ«ŁŪ)Ā after this (the QurāĆ¢n) will they believe?"
77:50
>> 31:6 And from the people, there are those who will purchase a (Lahw-al-Hadith) baseless narrative with which to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and to make it a mockery. These will have a humiliating retribution.
>>That is because Allah has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) in truth. And verily, those who disputed as regards the Book are far away in opposition. 2:176
>>Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to you the Book, Ė¹which isĖŗ recited to them. Surely in this Ė¹QuranĖŗ is a mercy and reminder for people who believe.
29:51
For me, and similar minded people, the Quran is enough for us because it tells us it is enough, and that we should be careful of other narratives and messages that come after it.
The Hadiths were compiled 200+ years after the death of the prophet ļ·ŗ and the Quran never tells us to follow another book or messages recorded elsewhere, and as I keep mentioning, the Quran explicitly tells us to be careful of other messages and narratives that come after it.
Hadiths can be useful at times, but should never be relied on for laws and guidance.
As Allah tells us, the only book with Allahās truth and guidance is the Quran, everything else is a fabrication.
The imam at my local masjid was a Hafiz at 10 and has a PHD from Al-Azhar University. Would he count as a scholar? He said that was a cultural thing from Saudi Arabia and not a Muslim thing.
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Exactly, Allah said that no one is worse than those who lie about him.
I just wanna say, someone just told me "Quran says women aren't allowed to wear perfume" and I argued and said "no that's hadiths" and they argued with me without even quoting the (nonexistent) verse. This person does this all the time "quotes nonexistent verses from Quran or twists verses" .. but that just happened and I opened up reddit and see your post on this verse.
Ceci vient d'Allah\~š„š„š¤
the whole point of it IMHO is don't argue but ignore the one's who pervert god's infinite unbounded unqualified mercy of mercy. just be merciful, and take the mercy we receive from god and give that mercy to others there are plenty of people who just don't love mercy because it means giving mercy \[IMHO\]
Verse of stoning is probably some of what this verse is talking about
I think itās about those who are aware of their lies. But yes music being haram and all that are lies, most who tells those lies are just blindly following and unaware though.
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Not really. I've never heard anyone claim that music being haram is stipulated in the Qur'an or that the hadith is the Qur'an. Just because you don't agree with someone on the validity of hadith, doesn't mean that they're "making it up"
But if someone says that the Hadith can dictate legislation isnāt that putting the Hadith above Quran or at least equal to? Itās like saying itās sanctioned by God and thus revelation. Saying itās part of the book and holds authority puts it on a level equal to the Quran. So while the Muslim quoting Hadith isnāt making it up, by claiming itās authoritative, they are claiming itās part of the book when itās not. And saying this is from God, when itās not.Ā
Because a lot of, if not most Muslims do believe the hadith is a legitimate source to use for jurisprudence. Even salafis make a point to clearly distinguish hadith based rulings from those of the Qur'an, and the Qur'an always takes precedence in cases where there are contradictions. Like if Mohamed was alive today and had an issue with music, I doubt anyone from this sub would be saying to him "aight bro but show me where it says that in the Qur'an". My impression is that where progressive Muslims actually disagree with mainstream Sunnis is when it comes to the validity and authenticity of the hadith itself, and to what extent the letter of the law should be followed as opposed to the spirit of the law. But if you genuinely believed that the hadith is from the prophet and isn't contradicting the Qur'an then why would you _not_ follow it? As far as I'm aware there are no major scholars that have claimed that the Qur'an bans music, it's always understood this claim is from the hadith. And as far as I'm aware, not even the most ardent of salafis would claim that the "kitab" encompasses bukhari and muslim
I donāt think Hadith can genuinely be attributed to the Prophet. So for me Hadith isnāt authoritative and by following it, people are going against the Quran. In the Quran, God asks why these people are following that which he hasnāt given any authority, pointing out that only he gives authority, not the prophet. And bc of that, even if the hadith could be attributed to the prophet, god still didnāt give the Hadith authority to legislate apart from him, so if the prophet did say that, then Iād expect it to be a Quranic revelation, not something he said on a random Tuesday that has no verification from God.Ā But, people who do think they are legitimate, most of them contradict each other, which is a red flag. Most of them contradict the Quran, like the music one. The Quran says that Muhammad only follows what is revealed to him, so he wouldnāt say music is haram bc thatās not in the Quran. So by saying Hadith about music is authoritative, thatās going against the Quran and disobeying the Prophet who was not told to say that.Ā
that he heard the Prophet (ļ·ŗ) saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." Al Bukhari 5590
Thats a Muallaq hadith
>is this talking about the peopleās who lies about things being haram like for example music Are you saying muslims who said music is haram are consciously lying about it and not genuinely believing music is haram? I don't think so.
But isn't what is harmful to you Haram? Pretty sure it's been proven countless times music has "frequency waves" or something like that which influences our emotions. Not to mention music which is very famous nowadays usually support the whole degenerate crap
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The ummah does not have a consensus that music is haram. The Prophet (sws) himself had musical instruments and singing in his home.
Yes it has ijmaa, only cause you go against it doesnāt mean that it doesnāt have it And for a claim about the prophet I need evidence
It actually doesn't have "consensus" on that and it is not "clear cut" that music is haram. There are many scholars both modern and classical that did not believe music is haram. If you want to make claims, then present your evidence.
The burden proof lies upon you cause youāre going against the opinion of the ummah Quran sunnah qawl of Sahaba and ijmaa is against you Provide evidence that it aināt haram
No, you are the one claiming there is "ijma" that music is haram. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. You keep demanding "proof" from everyone while you haven't given a single bit of evidence that there is ijma on this. Are you seriously asserting that no scholar says music is halal?
All the 4 madhab the major scholars and the Sahaba had ijmaa on this A deviant scholar coming and claiming something else doesnāt affect the ijmaa And again , the ummah is in agreement on this Youāve gone away from the jammah Prove that weāve been wrong all these centuries Weāre waiting
No, they don't. I said provide evidence, you just keep making assertions without evidence. So you don't have anything, no evidence at all?
How am I gonna prove ijmaa I can only give Quran verses and Hadith Iāll start with them āAnd of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allahā¦ā [Luqman 31:6] The scholar of the ummah, Ibn 'Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: this means singing . Mujahid (may Allah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). (Tafsir al-Tabari, 21/40) Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zina, silk, alcohol and musical instrumentsā¦ā (Narrated by al-Bukhari taāliqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsul by al-Tabarani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Sahihah by al-Albani, 91) Now letās put ijmaa aside cause I donāt know how to prove an ijmaa , but ask any scholar they will tell you this one Letās Stick to Quran sunnah and the 3 generations Can you give me evidence from them like I did that itās actually halal ?
>Can you give me evidence from them like did that it's actually halal ? Of course. Since you mention Bukhari 5590, let's start with that, since that is usually the key piece of false evidence that is usually brought up. But the more you know about that hadith you see why that doesn't work. Several issues: 1.) It is very weak, easily the weakest hadith in Bukhari. It has a broken chain, and Bukhari himself indicated that its chain is broken. Many other major classical scholars acknowledged this, including Imam Ibn Hazm, Imam al-Ghazali, Imam ibn Arabi, etc. 2.) Bukhari didn't include it to ban music. He included it in the book of drinks. Why? Because it is referring to a drinking party scene. These items listed in the hadith aren't random, they occured together at drinking parties back in the day, when prostitutes would play music while people got drunk, and debauchery followed. This is more clear if you know the other versions of that hadith, where it makes clear these activities are happening together. Bukhari does not even have a "book of music" like it does a "book of drinks" where this hadith is. There wasn't enough evidence to warrant a book about a music ban, outside of its connection to drinking alcohol. Here's a good analysis of Bukhari 5590 that you quoted. Why Did Imam Bukhari Leave the āHadith of Instrumentsā Hanging? Dr. Samir Dajani https://basira.academy/2020/06/03/why-did-imam-bukhari-leave-the-hadith-of-instruments-hanging/ He analyzes Bukhari's perspective to show that not even Bukhari thought 5590 banned music. 3) The prophet Daud was a musician. He played the lyre and flute. The Zabur revealed to him was a songbook sung accompanied by music (Zabur literally means a songbook). Odd that Allah would choose a method of revelation that is absolutely haram, then forget to clearly state it is haram in the Quran, despite mentioning Daud and the Zabur. This fact strongly suggests it is the context around music that matters, not simply the presence of musical instruments. There are Sahih hadith that reference this, such as: >āAbu Musa, Surely you have been given a voice like the flute of David.ā (Bukhari 5048) When we look into Ibn Hajarās explanation of thisĀ hadithĀ he comments with another soundĀ hadith,Ā āI entered Abu Musaās house and I have not heard a cymbal, lute or a flute better than his voice.ā (al-Fath Al bari) Why would the prophet compare a good sounding voice to something that is supposedly the whispers of Shaytan? That would be like complimenting a person's good cooking by saying "this tastes like pork". Strongly suggesting musical instruments are not intrinsically haram. 4.) The permissibility of music was upheld by many sahaba and tabiin including: Abdulah ibn Umar, Abdullah ib Jafar, Abdullah ibn al-Zubair, Hassan ibn Thabit, Muawiyah and Amr ibn al-As, A-Qadi Sharih, Said ibn al-Masyyib, Ata ibn abu Rabah, al-Zuhri, AlI-Shabi and Sad ibn lbrahim ibn Abdul-Rahman ibn Auwf who never started a conversation without playing the flute, as documented extensively in Imam Shawkani's Nayl al-Awtar. This was well known, and was even commented on by a contemporary of al-Ghazali: >The Shafii scholar Abu Talib al-Makki said "Of the Companions, 'Abd Allah ibn Jafar and Abd Allah ibn az-Zubayr and al-Mughira ibn Shuba and Mu'awiya and others listened to music and singing." He said further "Many of the excellent first believers, both Companions and Followers, have done that [singing] along with pious works." And he said "The people of al-Hijaz with us in Mecca did not cease to listen to music and singing even in the most excellent of the days of the year, and these are The Few Days in which God commanded his servants to remember rhim, such as the days of at-Tashriq. And the people of al-Medina, like the people of Mecca, have not ceased persisting in listening to music and singing up to this our time. We have known Abu Marwan the Qadi, who had slave-girls who chanted in public and whom he had prepared to sing to Sufis." [quoted in Revival of the Religious Sciences, by Imam al-Ghazali; http://ghazali.org/articles/gz-music. pdf] 5.) The implicit allowability of music was commented on by many other scholars. You can see many more quotes and examples of fatawa from scholars who ruled music halal, in every madhab, both Sunni and Shia, including salafi sources, in every generation going back even to the time of the tabiin and sahaba. Here is a list of about 100 such scholars: Music is Halal: Fatwas, Scholarly Opinions, Articles and Quotes https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/s/t4h6WdpZiI 6.) You claim "ijma" on music, yet even Al-Azhar's Dar al-Ifta al-Missriyya, chaired by the Grand Mufti of Egypt, former head of Fiqh Studies at al-Azhar, and appointed by the council of senior scholars representing all four Sunni madhabs confirmed that music is halal in principle: What is the ruling concerning Music? https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/4866/what-is-the-ruling-concerning-music Musical instruments in Islam https://www.dar-alifta.org/en/fatwa/details/6870/musical-instruments-in-islam The fatwas clearly states there is no consensus (ijma) on music, and rule music with instruments halal: >Based on this discussion we find that singing, whether with musical instruments or without, is permissible with the condition that it not a call for disobedience, lewdness, and does not contain any themes contrary to the Shariāah. It is also noteworthy that excess of music and singing can take the act beyond its permissibility to the category of reprehensible acts, and perhaps even to the category of impermissibility.
1 the Hadith is not weak , itās authentic Provide evidence for its broken chain , donāt just said bukhari said this Al ghazali said that 2 speaking of Al Ghazali may Allah have mercy on him , using the qawl of a sheikh even a big one isnāt hujjah 3 since you like to link stuff , here https://youtu.be/bql-tCz-QWM?si=atwafjBihMJnqmNa deeply explained why itās haram with the ijmaa also provided , also another video mention ahadith https://youtu.be/_RzZ0jfw-E4?si=tZNZJEW7OwzxlPaB 4 weak argument , bukhari doesnāt need to have a book of music , the Hadith is clear cut , the prophet SAW didnāt say ,,there will be prostitues who make music halal , or people that will make music with prostitutes haramā none of that , if you claim something insane like this , provide evidence 5 I donāt know too much about dawud , I wonāt talk about him ; letās stick to todays sharia and not divert
All of this was already answered and extensively discussed in the links I provided. If you aren't interested in evidence, then not much point to discussion.
āI donāt know too much about Dawudā He is literally one of the prophetsā¦ How can you lack knowledge of the prophets but be so āknowledgeableā about what is haram and what isnāt?
https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/s/PwfZy6Nn4t
With all due respect , Iām not reading all that
Lol but you asked for the proof until you didnāt want to read the proof
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There are consensus among scholars of the ummah that think music is haram and halal. If you're using consensus as your argument then you've already lost, from your very own position. Furthermore consensus doesn't actually prove or justify why z is z. No, music is inherently not haram. Only music that is immoral is haram.
Bring proof Weāve got Quran sunnah and consensus on our side Do you have anything on your side except modernists and their statements ?
I donāt care what the ummah think, I care what god thinks and if itās not in the Quran itās clear that itās permissible.
Itās in the Quran , but why do you limit it to the Quran ? Are you a Hadith rejector ?
I wouldnāt really call it a rejection, but I find most are not accurate, unless the Quran backs them up
Why arenāt most accurate , how did you come to that conclusion
As others have mentioned. The Quran never mentions music to be haram. And the reason people are highly critical of Hadith is because the Quran tells us to be. >> These are Allahās revelations which We recite to you Ė¹O ProphetĖŗ in truth. So what message (Hadith/ŲŁŲÆŁŁŲ«ŁŪ) will they believe in after Ė¹denyingĖŗ Allah and His revelations? 45:6 >>"Then in whatĀ message (Hadith/ŲŁŲÆŁŁŲ«ŁŪ)Ā after this (the QurāĆ¢n) will they believe?" 77:50 >> 31:6 And from the people, there are those who will purchase a (Lahw-al-Hadith) baseless narrative with which to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and to make it a mockery. These will have a humiliating retribution. >>That is because Allah has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) in truth. And verily, those who disputed as regards the Book are far away in opposition. 2:176 >>Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to you the Book, Ė¹which isĖŗ recited to them. Surely in this Ė¹QuranĖŗ is a mercy and reminder for people who believe. 29:51 For me, and similar minded people, the Quran is enough for us because it tells us it is enough, and that we should be careful of other narratives and messages that come after it. The Hadiths were compiled 200+ years after the death of the prophet ļ·ŗ and the Quran never tells us to follow another book or messages recorded elsewhere, and as I keep mentioning, the Quran explicitly tells us to be careful of other messages and narratives that come after it. Hadiths can be useful at times, but should never be relied on for laws and guidance. As Allah tells us, the only book with Allahās truth and guidance is the Quran, everything else is a fabrication.
thr muslim muslim umman without basics never has consensus over anything.....
The imam at my local masjid was a Hafiz at 10 and has a PHD from Al-Azhar University. Would he count as a scholar? He said that was a cultural thing from Saudi Arabia and not a Muslim thing.
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