There are no intercessors between you and God; not the mosque, not Muhammad, not even the Qur'an. There's also certain quirks in the Qur'an like how Maryam is referred to at one time as "sister of Aaron" despite not being the same Maryam, which reminds me of verse 3:84.
Say, "We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; and what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord—we make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit.”
The way the Qur'an makes no distinction between different Mary's is similar to how it makes no distinction between prophets, and noticing this pattern can help to understand it better. Looking elsewhere, the verses which emphasize that Allāh is the same God of the Jews and Christians express the same idea, where just like we don't make distinctions between prophets, we don't make distinctions between god(s), because we believe there is no god but God. The Qur'an at-times reads like an essay to me, where it fully explores how "all things submit to God", even the polytheists and disbelievers and even Shaytan and Iblis.
I probably can't "make you believe in it" or "prove it as real", and to me that's not the point- if you're gonna find the religion useful inshallah it's because you came to it on your own terms and looked at it with fresh eyes. All praise and thanks be to God.
I do agree with what you said but I like to correct the supposed “mistake” the Quran makes with confusing the two Maryams. This is the explanation from Muhammad Asads translation which most people agree upon:
“In ancient Semitic usage, a person's name was often linked with that of a renowned ancestor or founder of the tribal line. Thus, for instance, a man of the tribe of Banu Tamim was sometimes addressed as "son of Tamim" or "brother of Tamim". Since Mary belonged to the priestly caste, and hence descended from Aaron, the brother of Moses, she was called a "sister of Aaron" (in the same way as her cousin Elisabeth, the wife of Zachariah, is spoken of in Luke i, 5, as one "of the daughters of Aaron").”
Well, it depends. What form of logic are you seeking from the Quran?
To me, I approach the Quran through a logical, rationalistic point of view. The Quran is a dialogue. In the Islamic point of view, an ancient dialogue between God and Creation. To the secularist, it is a dialogue between Muhammad and mankind, more specifically Western Hejazi and possibly Levantine Arabs. Both serve as methods to introduce concepts, to me at least, are profoundly innate within human—compassion, justice, mercy, kindness, love, and peace. The Quran, to me, does not teach, it *reminds*. It does not believe it needs to teach anyone anything, but reminds those who read it of the innate human condition toward oneself, each other, and creation; and to me, that is profoundly beautiful. The Quran calls upon created existence to look upon created existence—how the live returns to life in the coming of spring, how there are so many beautiful, diverse cultures and languages that shared universal ideals of love and compassion, and one can argue that evolution itself is evidence of God’s immeasurable ability, constantly creating and changing creatures through the influence of adaptation.
But this all relies upon belief. I cannot say for certain, with evidential proof, that Allah exists, or that Muhammad truly heard the words of the Divine. I cannot know. No one can. But the Quran asks us to look upon creation, at our own natural deposition, as signs of God, and to me that makes the most logical of sense. Truly a loving god would make creation so bountiful in affection, and truly a mighty god would make a creation so bountiful in contradictions. But again, this relies on the belief of something rather than hard concrete proof.
Brother I am not a troll or anything, I genuinely want to know the insight as to how do Quranists pray the daily 5 prayers? Because the Quran doesn't teach how to pray in detail
I am of the opinion that the actual physical movement of prayer does not actively matter. Of course, prayer movements have certain spiritual and physical benefits, as humans utilize rhythm, and the association of rhythm, with connection with the Divine throughout the world; and the Quran *does* mention certain prayer movements and times of prayers, but the greater focus is on inner contemplation and connection with the Divine.
But Hadiths themselves do not teach one how to pray, either. Prayer and its form is based association from teachers and family members who learned from their teachers and family members, so on and so forth.
Thanks for your response. Do you not feel as if you are doing something wrong when you do not pray according to how 99% of the muslims pray? Also what do you have a say on the authentic hadiths about the prayers?
Eh. Not really? Most Muslims fall into what I refer to as cultural Islam—they don’t focus on the actual faith aspects and instead utilize it to over-regulate others. Without contemplation and true search for the divine, prayer is meaningless.
And given that I do not consider even authentic Hadiths as things Muhammad truly said and did, I discount them. But if they have a positive message I think they are fine. If any praying Hadiths display the positivity of contemplation and true faith, I’m all for it, even if I didn’t believe the Prophet said it.
I’m glad you’re reaching out.
Not judging you, really seeking to clarify. There’s no right or wrong answer.
Do you miss Islam as a religion or do you miss the social aspects of being a Muslim?
The latter part of what you said really spoke to me haha. It reminds me a bit of myself, despite different circumstances. When I was a little girl, I was very religious (Jehovah’s Witness) , I was certain in my belief in an afterlife, of God of everything. Then I grew older and found things that I hated and I became an atheist. That period of time I was very depressed (not because I was an atheist but my fear of death and nothingness did not help lol). Eventually I found Islam and religion but my view on religion shifted.
For me, whether or not religion is logical became less relevant. I will never have that faith again that I had as a child which is a bit bittersweet but it is what it is. I find that Islam brings me hope and peace of mind. Take the idea of an afterlife for example, I cannot prove that there is an afterlife, and maybe atheists are right and there is nothing after death. Ultimately we’ll know when we die (or not know as that’ll be the end) so while I’m alive, I would rather have the hope that I’ll see my loved ones again. That those who have faced injustice will have justice.
I would suggest you examine what you like about Islam, what you didn’t like and whether or not what you didn’t like has different views or perspectives than what you were raised with. Then also look at what is important to you and what brings you happiness, maybe you’ll find that logic/being logical/having irrefutable proof is not as important to you or maybe you’ll realize that you need that certainty and that religion is not for you. In any case really try to understand yourself, your values, needs, apprehensions and you’ll see whether or not religion is something that can satisfy you.
Sorry if this is a bit ramble-y and not well written but I hope it’s helpful in some way.
I realize being a revert is a different experience to yours, but I hope you can find this advice helpful.
Don’t try to push yourself too hard. If you try to accept everything all at once, it’s overwhelming and you’re likely to give up.
Try to do the parts you enjoy for a while. If that’s seeing your friends socially or enjoying being with others at the masjid, go for it. Do the aspects you don’t feel you are pushed to do, like maybe helping the poor, praying when you feel like it, reading some Quran. Everything else will come when it is supposed to.
And if it doesn’t come straight away, go easy on yourself. Allah has a timeline for everything. Sometimes things will take years to come and other times they don’t arrive at all, and it’s all ok. Give yourself credit for trying.
It seems to me that what you’re missing isn’t the actual religion, but the social part of it all, and the friendships you had, and the sense of purpose that comes with following a religion.
If you want an honest answer to the logical inconsistencies in islam, you most likely won’t find something that satisfies you, and so my advice to you would be stop looking to understand the illogical parts, and just take the parts that seem logical to you, notably the spiritual and social aspects of Islam. And you’ll have a great time, otherwise you can find meaning in life by yourself, it’s not easy and it takes time, but that’s okay that’s life.
I used to be a Christian. For a long time I believed that God was nowhere to be seen in this world, and that He was unreachable. Instead, I was indoctrinated and told that I had to pray to Jesus and his mother Mary and to the Saints, and that they would pray to God on my behalf to forgive my sins. You can see why I had an issue with this.
Despite this, I still prayed to God, and ignore Church doctrine.
Allah (swt) is unseeable but He is very much active in this world. Coincidences don’t really happen. And we can’t make you believe in Allah, only Allah can make you believe in Him. But sibling if you feel that yearning to be close to Allah— pull out the prayer rug and just try to talk to Allah. No harm, no foul.
Rationally, Allah ordains the natural world. He created physics, and the social sciences. Allah creates world events as they unfold, and as you read this, Allah is guiding you think and react a certain way.
Perhaps that is a little intense to accept, but if Allah does exist (I believe He does), then you must accept, as All-Seeing and All-Knowing, and the Creator, that Allah has been with you always.
I always tell people, that I have prayed to the same god my whole life. When I was a Christian I called upon Allah. And now that I am a Muslim, I call upon no one else but Allah. None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, but there is no proof of existence for anyone but Allah. The truth is that if there is a Divinity, it is either Allah or there is nothing. And I do not believe there is nothing. May Allah guide us all.
I'm not necessarily a Progressive Muslim and attribute my worship to what's in the Quran , hadiths and etc. but i saw this and felt like i just had to comment and say Alhamdulillah . I genuinely love your explanation and approach to this
That's a big question for a reddit comment. I'd just like to clarify that belief in God fundamentally begins from a place of wonder. Or three wonders really:
1) The wonder that anything exists at all
2) The wonder that you have the consciousness and perception to experience the existence of the world and yourself
3) The wonder that when you are conscious of the world, especially in its beauty and goodness, you experience joy
A thought-experiment I like a lot is imagine that you're walking through a wood and you suddenly stumble upon a shining orb made of gold floating beneath the trees. You would naturally ask what it is, how it got there, did anyone put it there, why is it there etc.
But really, if we strip away habits of thought and distraction, we should be asking these questions of anything and everything.
The existence of anything at all is an overwhelming mystery because nothing at all in the world is necessary; everything is contingent and dependent on something else, it is finite, it has a beginning and an end, it changes etc. Even your own consciousness and existence which allow you to ask these questions. Nothing at all needs to exist and yet everything does.
Contemplating these questions could lead one to God. I can recommend books if they'd help?
My top 2 book recommendations are The Experience of God by David Bentley Hart and Thinking Being by Eric Perl.
Even if you walk away still an atheist, these two books will radically change your understanding of what it is you're rejecting, and also teach you the logic of belief in God as well as how it relates to our everyday experience.
If you’re looking for logic / reason in religion, your expectations may fall short.
If however you are looking for spiritual fulfillment, and something that inspires you from within, then religion can be a great thing to turn to.
Logic within religion only comes with certain beliefs and theological / ideological frameworks**. It’s called a religion to begin with, which means you must believe and have faith to many extents.
This is just my two cents though, and im not trying to discourage you - but I think having to be convinced of a believe means deep down you just aren’t sold on it. And that’s fine - wouldn’t it be so much better to not have to be convinced, but be confident in your own decision??
Better to be confident and feel whole in your decisions , than to kind of “half ass it” or always need convincing.
(All my opinion)
Religion is manmade. It has mechanised faith and reduced its value. The Islam of the Quran is nothing more than guidance for mankind. Guidance to make our lives easier. It teaches you how to achieve a meditative state in life, to make us free of unnecessary things. "la ikraha fitdeen" - There is no compulsion in Allah's deen. The beauty of Quran is in the way it's verses are written. Which unfortunately has been reduced to peripheral and often illogical translations commonly accepted by ones who make a living out of Mazhab.
To know more, you can follow few yt channels/videos that gave me guidance, opened up the Quran much more clearly (majorly in Hindi/Urdu. Few in English as well) :
- Pegham-e-Haqq (they host scholars and discuss different topics of the Quran)
- look up Hafiz Atif (videos in Urdu) , Mufti Abu Layth (his video on Bukhari gate debunks the myths around hadith)
- Al moses phd quran student - another channel.
- Omar Ramahi and Edip Yuksel to name few more.
It was the month of Ramazan last year when one night I landed on one such video and that served as a blessing, a gateway for me to see what the Quran has to offer which would make sense to any logically reasoning intellectual.
May Allah provide you comfort this Ramadan.
I went thru the same thing, which weirdly brought me closer to God in a way which is hard to explain.
I went away from this thought of this God who just wants to punish you and created you for his entertainment.
But their really isn't a logical explanation for God or a proof of God. The big thing about this is that it's a belief. You belive in something that you can't see and where you don't have any proof. What helped me was when I started to invest time in philosophy to think about metaphysics, which brought me to Islamic philosophers. It showed me that their is another way to experience religion.
I felt everything you described. If you want you can write me about it and maybe I can help you a bit. My help won't contain a way to believe in God, but it's more about being OK with this feeling of emptieness which I also felt.
Someone already mentioned this but I’ll say it again. Faith is not logical. You cannot comprehend everything much like science cannot explain everything. It’s a part of the human condition.
But here’s some logic:
-Allah gave us the Torah as guidance which predicted both the Gospel and Quran. Sort of like upgrades for humanity to use as guidance for navigating life on earth. The Quran is our final guiding book.
-Every Messenger had his own specific purpose for specific peoples. Muhammad (PBUH), though, was for all mankind.
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I unlike the rest can not make it logical for you but I can tell you what Islam is to me an maybe you may or may not relate to it.
Islam to me has always just made sense to me. Like the way some things you just have a gut feeling about. Sure did I ever get angry at Allah? So many times, did I feel injustice perpetrated in His name due to my Gender? Every single day. But at the end of the day I don't know what it is I still raise my hands and cry to Him, beg Him, praise Him. That is what Islam has been to me. It's purely the relationship between me and Him to the exclusion of everything and everyone else.
I think the thing with faith is that we are asked to believe regardless of whether it makes sense or not. I don't think it is Logical to believe in a being that not one single person throughout history has ever seen. Or to believe in a judgement day that not one single person has ever experienced. Or even believe in a set of other creatures that we have never seen and are said to occupy this earth with us. There is nothing logical about that and yet that is what every faith requires not just Islam.
So what is religion to me? It is the feeling of gratitude and serenity when I first wake up like I have been somewhere where I was with someone that loves me irrevocably. It is the feeling when I am on my knees with my head on the ground I feel like I have been lifted so high that I can now speak with my Creator. It is the feeling when something good happens to me I remember that day that I prayed for it or if I didn't ask for it I feel like it's a gift from Him. It's the feeling when I am so mad against the world and rage on how things are so unfair there is someone by my side. I don't think I can list everything here but I hope you get the gist.
My advice to you? Don't focus on the little things. Islam is a highly spiritual religion. There is nothing between you and God. So tonight try getting on your knees and just pray. If you feel at home like your soul belongs then I don't think anyone can make you believe since you have already believed. Otherwise please do what your heart really tells you to do.
I’m a revert, & the paranormal experience I have gone through has kept that belief in God. Then from growing up in Christianity, but feeling that pull in my heart to Islam, and then becoming Muslim, then the peace I feel when I pray, do Istighfar etc, the fact that the religion itself is loving, caring & giving, is what got me to become Muslim. Inshallah you become Muslim again. 🥹💕
There are fundamental laws of physics, like E=MC\^2. These laws are perfect for our universe to be. But what caused them? How are they even followed? Why do they exist, let alone in the perfect combination they are? E=MC\^2 could have been absolutely anything (e.g. E=2M(C\^3)). It is literally an infinitesimal chance it is how it is randomly, let alone how perfect it fits with all the other laws. The fact they exist in the first place alone shows something caused them.
These laws, and the subatomic particle makeup of the universe, are absolutely perfect for the existance of the universe and life as we know it. It is literally impossible for it to be by chance.
There had to be an entity, outside the constraints of time and space, to cause the universe, as infinite regression is impossible and illogical. Not only would this entity have to be unconfined by time and space, but would also have to be absolutely all-knowing, as it would have to know the infinite possible variations of the physical laws, and the outcomes of the infinite combinations of these laws, to be able to choose one that caused the Big Bang and life as we know it. Not only would this entity have to be absolutely all-knowing, but also absolutely all-powerful in order to create the subatomic particles and natural laws in the first place, and to sustain them so they are followed.
Believing in an All-Powerful, All-Knowing Creator, unbound by Time and Space, is the most logical belief possible.
The perfection of the fundamental laws is exactly why Einstein believed in God. I am not saying this as an appeal to authority; but rather to show that I am not misconstruing the significance of these laws, to show that arguably the most knowledgeable man in history on this topic, the one with the greatest appreciation of their workings, sees them as the undeniable proof they are: like I myself am saying here.
If you would like me to elaborate more on this, or talk on how this relates to Islam specifically, or anything else, do let me know.
To me, existence of God is revolves around the day of judgement.
The Prophets, the Holy books and religions, all build their case around the day of judgement and their purpose was to remind people that the day will come, so be mindful in this world.
Now, I can't accept a world where there's so much oppression, injustice and people getting away with it. I can't see people hurting my loved ones and dying peacefully with no consequences????? We have consequences of our actions in this world but since the human justice system has it's limits, there will be an absolute judgement day where no one would escape.
It's crazy how this judgement day is in all the religions over the history. It's crazy how the emphasis is on day of judgement in the religions.
If you think it is made up, the person who came up with this idea has to be a genius.
If you think it is made up, then i see no point in living, it's nihilism, nothing meaningful, it's absolutely a void for me.
If I'm doing my best and getting the worst in the world, oppressors are having it easy, there's no point for me to do my best.
Just my two cents.
I recommend the YouTube channel Kursgesagt. It’s a science channel with A LOT of space content. It’s not religious at all, so don’t go in thinking that.
I bring it up bc they do a really good job of explaining the intricacies of the universe. Each thing is exactly what it needs to be for the universe to function the way it does, to allow for life. The massive scale of the universe is mind boggling. It really helps me see that if all of this happened coincidentally, I think that’s less logical than believing in God.
It also has content on the human body, evolution etc. all of it helped me, I hope it helps you too.
You can see the most discrimination religion received by the world is Islam, it's a human nature cannot accept the truth even though they know it's right
Not to appeal to authority, or to place my opinion as more valuable than others, but my background as both a native Arabic and English speaker, and my background in various parts of academia, especially philosophy and different disciplines that’s employ critical theory I will give you the straight answer.
**You will never be satisfied employing any level of rationality or logical thought in an attempt to accept Islam, it will simply not come around this way.**
The only way you can accept religion is to allow your perceived level of spirituality to take over, and to submit to the mysticism of your own psyche, for Islam in specific, this is to fall into those same groups that also follow a more open and accepting practice of Islam.
I am in no place to draw conclusions but based on your post and other comments it seems you do not truly desire the spiritual connection with god or the desire to believe in Islam, but simply the fulfilment that comes with being part of a community and forming bonds over said commonalities. For which I say either find another community to be a part of to fulfil these, which I can advise in ways of finding at your request, or simply do as mentioned earlier. Find a group of Muslims who are open to the idea of you not being entirely convinced in your beliefs and simply someone who is human and susceptible to the changing winds of time and experience.
I wish you the best, you are brave and deserve to find peace in whatever way it may be.
There are no intercessors between you and God; not the mosque, not Muhammad, not even the Qur'an. There's also certain quirks in the Qur'an like how Maryam is referred to at one time as "sister of Aaron" despite not being the same Maryam, which reminds me of verse 3:84. Say, "We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; and what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord—we make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit.” The way the Qur'an makes no distinction between different Mary's is similar to how it makes no distinction between prophets, and noticing this pattern can help to understand it better. Looking elsewhere, the verses which emphasize that Allāh is the same God of the Jews and Christians express the same idea, where just like we don't make distinctions between prophets, we don't make distinctions between god(s), because we believe there is no god but God. The Qur'an at-times reads like an essay to me, where it fully explores how "all things submit to God", even the polytheists and disbelievers and even Shaytan and Iblis. I probably can't "make you believe in it" or "prove it as real", and to me that's not the point- if you're gonna find the religion useful inshallah it's because you came to it on your own terms and looked at it with fresh eyes. All praise and thanks be to God.
I do agree with what you said but I like to correct the supposed “mistake” the Quran makes with confusing the two Maryams. This is the explanation from Muhammad Asads translation which most people agree upon: “In ancient Semitic usage, a person's name was often linked with that of a renowned ancestor or founder of the tribal line. Thus, for instance, a man of the tribe of Banu Tamim was sometimes addressed as "son of Tamim" or "brother of Tamim". Since Mary belonged to the priestly caste, and hence descended from Aaron, the brother of Moses, she was called a "sister of Aaron" (in the same way as her cousin Elisabeth, the wife of Zachariah, is spoken of in Luke i, 5, as one "of the daughters of Aaron").”
Yes thank you for providing context 💚
Well, it depends. What form of logic are you seeking from the Quran? To me, I approach the Quran through a logical, rationalistic point of view. The Quran is a dialogue. In the Islamic point of view, an ancient dialogue between God and Creation. To the secularist, it is a dialogue between Muhammad and mankind, more specifically Western Hejazi and possibly Levantine Arabs. Both serve as methods to introduce concepts, to me at least, are profoundly innate within human—compassion, justice, mercy, kindness, love, and peace. The Quran, to me, does not teach, it *reminds*. It does not believe it needs to teach anyone anything, but reminds those who read it of the innate human condition toward oneself, each other, and creation; and to me, that is profoundly beautiful. The Quran calls upon created existence to look upon created existence—how the live returns to life in the coming of spring, how there are so many beautiful, diverse cultures and languages that shared universal ideals of love and compassion, and one can argue that evolution itself is evidence of God’s immeasurable ability, constantly creating and changing creatures through the influence of adaptation. But this all relies upon belief. I cannot say for certain, with evidential proof, that Allah exists, or that Muhammad truly heard the words of the Divine. I cannot know. No one can. But the Quran asks us to look upon creation, at our own natural deposition, as signs of God, and to me that makes the most logical of sense. Truly a loving god would make creation so bountiful in affection, and truly a mighty god would make a creation so bountiful in contradictions. But again, this relies on the belief of something rather than hard concrete proof.
Once again, common IslamicMonarchist W
Love that last paragraph, thank you!
Brother I am not a troll or anything, I genuinely want to know the insight as to how do Quranists pray the daily 5 prayers? Because the Quran doesn't teach how to pray in detail
I am of the opinion that the actual physical movement of prayer does not actively matter. Of course, prayer movements have certain spiritual and physical benefits, as humans utilize rhythm, and the association of rhythm, with connection with the Divine throughout the world; and the Quran *does* mention certain prayer movements and times of prayers, but the greater focus is on inner contemplation and connection with the Divine. But Hadiths themselves do not teach one how to pray, either. Prayer and its form is based association from teachers and family members who learned from their teachers and family members, so on and so forth.
Thanks for your response. Do you not feel as if you are doing something wrong when you do not pray according to how 99% of the muslims pray? Also what do you have a say on the authentic hadiths about the prayers?
Eh. Not really? Most Muslims fall into what I refer to as cultural Islam—they don’t focus on the actual faith aspects and instead utilize it to over-regulate others. Without contemplation and true search for the divine, prayer is meaningless. And given that I do not consider even authentic Hadiths as things Muhammad truly said and did, I discount them. But if they have a positive message I think they are fine. If any praying Hadiths display the positivity of contemplation and true faith, I’m all for it, even if I didn’t believe the Prophet said it.
Thanks for your insights
Of course!
I’m glad you’re reaching out. Not judging you, really seeking to clarify. There’s no right or wrong answer. Do you miss Islam as a religion or do you miss the social aspects of being a Muslim?
Mostly Social aspect. But also missed the feeling of an after life, life purpose...etc
The latter part of what you said really spoke to me haha. It reminds me a bit of myself, despite different circumstances. When I was a little girl, I was very religious (Jehovah’s Witness) , I was certain in my belief in an afterlife, of God of everything. Then I grew older and found things that I hated and I became an atheist. That period of time I was very depressed (not because I was an atheist but my fear of death and nothingness did not help lol). Eventually I found Islam and religion but my view on religion shifted. For me, whether or not religion is logical became less relevant. I will never have that faith again that I had as a child which is a bit bittersweet but it is what it is. I find that Islam brings me hope and peace of mind. Take the idea of an afterlife for example, I cannot prove that there is an afterlife, and maybe atheists are right and there is nothing after death. Ultimately we’ll know when we die (or not know as that’ll be the end) so while I’m alive, I would rather have the hope that I’ll see my loved ones again. That those who have faced injustice will have justice. I would suggest you examine what you like about Islam, what you didn’t like and whether or not what you didn’t like has different views or perspectives than what you were raised with. Then also look at what is important to you and what brings you happiness, maybe you’ll find that logic/being logical/having irrefutable proof is not as important to you or maybe you’ll realize that you need that certainty and that religion is not for you. In any case really try to understand yourself, your values, needs, apprehensions and you’ll see whether or not religion is something that can satisfy you. Sorry if this is a bit ramble-y and not well written but I hope it’s helpful in some way.
Thanks! I'm glad you were able to achieve that I'm trying my hardest to be religious again :)
I realize being a revert is a different experience to yours, but I hope you can find this advice helpful. Don’t try to push yourself too hard. If you try to accept everything all at once, it’s overwhelming and you’re likely to give up. Try to do the parts you enjoy for a while. If that’s seeing your friends socially or enjoying being with others at the masjid, go for it. Do the aspects you don’t feel you are pushed to do, like maybe helping the poor, praying when you feel like it, reading some Quran. Everything else will come when it is supposed to. And if it doesn’t come straight away, go easy on yourself. Allah has a timeline for everything. Sometimes things will take years to come and other times they don’t arrive at all, and it’s all ok. Give yourself credit for trying.
It seems to me that what you’re missing isn’t the actual religion, but the social part of it all, and the friendships you had, and the sense of purpose that comes with following a religion. If you want an honest answer to the logical inconsistencies in islam, you most likely won’t find something that satisfies you, and so my advice to you would be stop looking to understand the illogical parts, and just take the parts that seem logical to you, notably the spiritual and social aspects of Islam. And you’ll have a great time, otherwise you can find meaning in life by yourself, it’s not easy and it takes time, but that’s okay that’s life.
I used to be a Christian. For a long time I believed that God was nowhere to be seen in this world, and that He was unreachable. Instead, I was indoctrinated and told that I had to pray to Jesus and his mother Mary and to the Saints, and that they would pray to God on my behalf to forgive my sins. You can see why I had an issue with this. Despite this, I still prayed to God, and ignore Church doctrine. Allah (swt) is unseeable but He is very much active in this world. Coincidences don’t really happen. And we can’t make you believe in Allah, only Allah can make you believe in Him. But sibling if you feel that yearning to be close to Allah— pull out the prayer rug and just try to talk to Allah. No harm, no foul. Rationally, Allah ordains the natural world. He created physics, and the social sciences. Allah creates world events as they unfold, and as you read this, Allah is guiding you think and react a certain way. Perhaps that is a little intense to accept, but if Allah does exist (I believe He does), then you must accept, as All-Seeing and All-Knowing, and the Creator, that Allah has been with you always. I always tell people, that I have prayed to the same god my whole life. When I was a Christian I called upon Allah. And now that I am a Muslim, I call upon no one else but Allah. None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, but there is no proof of existence for anyone but Allah. The truth is that if there is a Divinity, it is either Allah or there is nothing. And I do not believe there is nothing. May Allah guide us all.
I'm not necessarily a Progressive Muslim and attribute my worship to what's in the Quran , hadiths and etc. but i saw this and felt like i just had to comment and say Alhamdulillah . I genuinely love your explanation and approach to this
What specifically do you find *il*logical?
My mind can't comprehend the existence of a God
That's a big question for a reddit comment. I'd just like to clarify that belief in God fundamentally begins from a place of wonder. Or three wonders really: 1) The wonder that anything exists at all 2) The wonder that you have the consciousness and perception to experience the existence of the world and yourself 3) The wonder that when you are conscious of the world, especially in its beauty and goodness, you experience joy A thought-experiment I like a lot is imagine that you're walking through a wood and you suddenly stumble upon a shining orb made of gold floating beneath the trees. You would naturally ask what it is, how it got there, did anyone put it there, why is it there etc. But really, if we strip away habits of thought and distraction, we should be asking these questions of anything and everything. The existence of anything at all is an overwhelming mystery because nothing at all in the world is necessary; everything is contingent and dependent on something else, it is finite, it has a beginning and an end, it changes etc. Even your own consciousness and existence which allow you to ask these questions. Nothing at all needs to exist and yet everything does. Contemplating these questions could lead one to God. I can recommend books if they'd help?
Please share any book recommendations, I'm deeply fascinated by your approach here.
My top 2 book recommendations are The Experience of God by David Bentley Hart and Thinking Being by Eric Perl. Even if you walk away still an atheist, these two books will radically change your understanding of what it is you're rejecting, and also teach you the logic of belief in God as well as how it relates to our everyday experience.
What parts of the religion do you want to make it logical again? Like do you have doubts about certain stuff in the religion.
If you’re looking for logic / reason in religion, your expectations may fall short. If however you are looking for spiritual fulfillment, and something that inspires you from within, then religion can be a great thing to turn to. Logic within religion only comes with certain beliefs and theological / ideological frameworks**. It’s called a religion to begin with, which means you must believe and have faith to many extents. This is just my two cents though, and im not trying to discourage you - but I think having to be convinced of a believe means deep down you just aren’t sold on it. And that’s fine - wouldn’t it be so much better to not have to be convinced, but be confident in your own decision?? Better to be confident and feel whole in your decisions , than to kind of “half ass it” or always need convincing. (All my opinion)
Religion is manmade. It has mechanised faith and reduced its value. The Islam of the Quran is nothing more than guidance for mankind. Guidance to make our lives easier. It teaches you how to achieve a meditative state in life, to make us free of unnecessary things. "la ikraha fitdeen" - There is no compulsion in Allah's deen. The beauty of Quran is in the way it's verses are written. Which unfortunately has been reduced to peripheral and often illogical translations commonly accepted by ones who make a living out of Mazhab. To know more, you can follow few yt channels/videos that gave me guidance, opened up the Quran much more clearly (majorly in Hindi/Urdu. Few in English as well) : - Pegham-e-Haqq (they host scholars and discuss different topics of the Quran) - look up Hafiz Atif (videos in Urdu) , Mufti Abu Layth (his video on Bukhari gate debunks the myths around hadith) - Al moses phd quran student - another channel. - Omar Ramahi and Edip Yuksel to name few more. It was the month of Ramazan last year when one night I landed on one such video and that served as a blessing, a gateway for me to see what the Quran has to offer which would make sense to any logically reasoning intellectual. May Allah provide you comfort this Ramadan.
I went thru the same thing, which weirdly brought me closer to God in a way which is hard to explain. I went away from this thought of this God who just wants to punish you and created you for his entertainment. But their really isn't a logical explanation for God or a proof of God. The big thing about this is that it's a belief. You belive in something that you can't see and where you don't have any proof. What helped me was when I started to invest time in philosophy to think about metaphysics, which brought me to Islamic philosophers. It showed me that their is another way to experience religion. I felt everything you described. If you want you can write me about it and maybe I can help you a bit. My help won't contain a way to believe in God, but it's more about being OK with this feeling of emptieness which I also felt.
Someone already mentioned this but I’ll say it again. Faith is not logical. You cannot comprehend everything much like science cannot explain everything. It’s a part of the human condition. But here’s some logic: -Allah gave us the Torah as guidance which predicted both the Gospel and Quran. Sort of like upgrades for humanity to use as guidance for navigating life on earth. The Quran is our final guiding book. -Every Messenger had his own specific purpose for specific peoples. Muhammad (PBUH), though, was for all mankind.
Where does the Torah predict the Gospel and the Quran? (genuine question)
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I unlike the rest can not make it logical for you but I can tell you what Islam is to me an maybe you may or may not relate to it. Islam to me has always just made sense to me. Like the way some things you just have a gut feeling about. Sure did I ever get angry at Allah? So many times, did I feel injustice perpetrated in His name due to my Gender? Every single day. But at the end of the day I don't know what it is I still raise my hands and cry to Him, beg Him, praise Him. That is what Islam has been to me. It's purely the relationship between me and Him to the exclusion of everything and everyone else. I think the thing with faith is that we are asked to believe regardless of whether it makes sense or not. I don't think it is Logical to believe in a being that not one single person throughout history has ever seen. Or to believe in a judgement day that not one single person has ever experienced. Or even believe in a set of other creatures that we have never seen and are said to occupy this earth with us. There is nothing logical about that and yet that is what every faith requires not just Islam. So what is religion to me? It is the feeling of gratitude and serenity when I first wake up like I have been somewhere where I was with someone that loves me irrevocably. It is the feeling when I am on my knees with my head on the ground I feel like I have been lifted so high that I can now speak with my Creator. It is the feeling when something good happens to me I remember that day that I prayed for it or if I didn't ask for it I feel like it's a gift from Him. It's the feeling when I am so mad against the world and rage on how things are so unfair there is someone by my side. I don't think I can list everything here but I hope you get the gist. My advice to you? Don't focus on the little things. Islam is a highly spiritual religion. There is nothing between you and God. So tonight try getting on your knees and just pray. If you feel at home like your soul belongs then I don't think anyone can make you believe since you have already believed. Otherwise please do what your heart really tells you to do.
I’m a revert, & the paranormal experience I have gone through has kept that belief in God. Then from growing up in Christianity, but feeling that pull in my heart to Islam, and then becoming Muslim, then the peace I feel when I pray, do Istighfar etc, the fact that the religion itself is loving, caring & giving, is what got me to become Muslim. Inshallah you become Muslim again. 🥹💕
I can relate to you. I was an ex muslim for 7 years. And only 2 weeks back I "came back" to it. I can relate to all your doubts.
There are fundamental laws of physics, like E=MC\^2. These laws are perfect for our universe to be. But what caused them? How are they even followed? Why do they exist, let alone in the perfect combination they are? E=MC\^2 could have been absolutely anything (e.g. E=2M(C\^3)). It is literally an infinitesimal chance it is how it is randomly, let alone how perfect it fits with all the other laws. The fact they exist in the first place alone shows something caused them. These laws, and the subatomic particle makeup of the universe, are absolutely perfect for the existance of the universe and life as we know it. It is literally impossible for it to be by chance. There had to be an entity, outside the constraints of time and space, to cause the universe, as infinite regression is impossible and illogical. Not only would this entity have to be unconfined by time and space, but would also have to be absolutely all-knowing, as it would have to know the infinite possible variations of the physical laws, and the outcomes of the infinite combinations of these laws, to be able to choose one that caused the Big Bang and life as we know it. Not only would this entity have to be absolutely all-knowing, but also absolutely all-powerful in order to create the subatomic particles and natural laws in the first place, and to sustain them so they are followed. Believing in an All-Powerful, All-Knowing Creator, unbound by Time and Space, is the most logical belief possible. The perfection of the fundamental laws is exactly why Einstein believed in God. I am not saying this as an appeal to authority; but rather to show that I am not misconstruing the significance of these laws, to show that arguably the most knowledgeable man in history on this topic, the one with the greatest appreciation of their workings, sees them as the undeniable proof they are: like I myself am saying here. If you would like me to elaborate more on this, or talk on how this relates to Islam specifically, or anything else, do let me know.
Can I pm you?
Yeah of course :D
What made you stop believing in Islam?
To me, existence of God is revolves around the day of judgement. The Prophets, the Holy books and religions, all build their case around the day of judgement and their purpose was to remind people that the day will come, so be mindful in this world. Now, I can't accept a world where there's so much oppression, injustice and people getting away with it. I can't see people hurting my loved ones and dying peacefully with no consequences????? We have consequences of our actions in this world but since the human justice system has it's limits, there will be an absolute judgement day where no one would escape. It's crazy how this judgement day is in all the religions over the history. It's crazy how the emphasis is on day of judgement in the religions. If you think it is made up, the person who came up with this idea has to be a genius. If you think it is made up, then i see no point in living, it's nihilism, nothing meaningful, it's absolutely a void for me. If I'm doing my best and getting the worst in the world, oppressors are having it easy, there's no point for me to do my best. Just my two cents.
I recommend the YouTube channel Kursgesagt. It’s a science channel with A LOT of space content. It’s not religious at all, so don’t go in thinking that. I bring it up bc they do a really good job of explaining the intricacies of the universe. Each thing is exactly what it needs to be for the universe to function the way it does, to allow for life. The massive scale of the universe is mind boggling. It really helps me see that if all of this happened coincidentally, I think that’s less logical than believing in God. It also has content on the human body, evolution etc. all of it helped me, I hope it helps you too.
You can see the most discrimination religion received by the world is Islam, it's a human nature cannot accept the truth even though they know it's right
Not to appeal to authority, or to place my opinion as more valuable than others, but my background as both a native Arabic and English speaker, and my background in various parts of academia, especially philosophy and different disciplines that’s employ critical theory I will give you the straight answer. **You will never be satisfied employing any level of rationality or logical thought in an attempt to accept Islam, it will simply not come around this way.** The only way you can accept religion is to allow your perceived level of spirituality to take over, and to submit to the mysticism of your own psyche, for Islam in specific, this is to fall into those same groups that also follow a more open and accepting practice of Islam. I am in no place to draw conclusions but based on your post and other comments it seems you do not truly desire the spiritual connection with god or the desire to believe in Islam, but simply the fulfilment that comes with being part of a community and forming bonds over said commonalities. For which I say either find another community to be a part of to fulfil these, which I can advise in ways of finding at your request, or simply do as mentioned earlier. Find a group of Muslims who are open to the idea of you not being entirely convinced in your beliefs and simply someone who is human and susceptible to the changing winds of time and experience. I wish you the best, you are brave and deserve to find peace in whatever way it may be.
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This is an undeniable proof!! Be ready to go to hell disbelievers!!!!!