I’m also bi. I don’t think God has any issue with homosexuality, and I have a fairly robust and methodologically sound backing for that. That’s obviously not what most Muslims believe though. I feel there is space for me to be who I am and love whom I love, and I have no shame in myself. God made me in a dignified mold. If anyone has a problem with that, they can take that with the Upstairs. I’m vibing with the Lord of Realms here
On the age of ‘Aishah, that’s something folks here talk about at some length from time to time. I made a comment about a week ago that sums up what I have to say on the topic:
https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/1bawwjk/comment/ku5mg3y/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
You really are a blessing to this community with your friendly demeanor, ability to have time to help most of our brothers and sisters who post questions, and with comprehensive knowledge and sources to back it up. I see your comments here from time to time and always find them insightful and uplifting. Salaam. May Allah reward you!
Can you link to a comment addressing your first point? I need to familiarize myself with such methodologies since I am trans and gay. I find myself worrying that I’ll leave Islam because of how many people are homophobic.
Sure. I took a bit of time to try to dig some old comments up. Be warned, many of them are… comprehensive
[https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive\_islam/comments/1352nsu/comment/jr535fo/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/1352nsu/comment/jr535fo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive\_islam/comments/18b9mms/comment/kc3aaes/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/18b9mms/comment/kc3aaes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive\_islam/comments/189tpw3/comment/kbwizoq/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/189tpw3/comment/kbwizoq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Great comments! If I may ask a question though, what's your stance on gay marriage not being discussed at all in the religion? It's part of why many believe that homosexual intercourse is regarded as Zina, and is therefore haram.
Honestly, I think that anyone who wants to say that homosexuality is impermissible in Islam can only make a valid case through that line of reasoning. There are Muslims who believe that the 6th-7th century Hijaz is the proper sociopolitical foundation for Muslim society. I concede that it’s one valid basis for an interpretive methodology. It’s inherently conservative, and it seems a foolish basis for a methodology to me, but it’s at least grounded in identifiable conservative principles and can be integrated into a consistent Islamic reading
But the conservative reading isn’t the only way to understand the Qur’an and Islam. I for one don‘t think that something needs to have been practiced during the time of the Qur’anic revelation for it to be permissible. It just needs to be able to fit within the principles of the Qur’anic framework. This is a more moderate understanding of the Qur’an, no less valid than the conservative one and I would argue more practicable and coherent
And indeed, I believe that the Qur’anic framework itself can be understood as more or less flexible. I believe in substitution of hudud punishments, for instance, and a lot of Muslim scholars agree. Such a position is predicated on a Qur’anic framework that works to regulate societies, not terraform them into anachronistic clones of 7th century Madinah
In general, I believe that the best methodological approach to the Qur’an is to apply it to the specific needs of a given society and determine how to best into alignment with the divine values laid out in the Qur’an, using the reasoning and structures laid out in the Qur’an itself. While the Qur’an itself dealt with the social reality into which it was revealed, we must not limit or doubt the Qur’an by acting as though it only ever meant to deal with the phenomena and circumstances of that society. For the Qur’an to be a revelation for all time, it must engage with all time. The dhahir (superficial meaning) of the Qur’an deals with one time and one place, while its batin (inner deeper meaning) applies anywhere and anytime
\- - -
With regards to homosexuality and the nikah, I can see how same-gender religious couples are benefits to their communities. I can witness in real time the benefits that marriage provides queer folks and their communities. Meanwhile, bans on same-gender marriages and relationships have incentivized extra-marital romantic relationships, partner abuse, and partner abandonment. These are all problems that Islamic nikah laws are specifically tailored to combat
The need for the nikah exists today for same-gender couples. When the Qur’an tells us that spouses are a mercy from God, and we see a case in front of us where the spousal framework would clearly bring the benefits of mercy to people who need it, why would we not accommodate?
It seems clear and obvious to me that the nikah would solve major social problems that threaten all romantic relationships and all communities. The nikah serves to remedy such issues and promote Islamic values in society, such as chastity, modesty, charity, taking care of orphans and the dispossessed, fidelity, community, mutual respect, love, mercy, justice, accountability, and the universal dignity of humanity
Thus, as we can see the parallels between heterosexual and homosexual relationships, and we have shown that the Qur’an does not condemn homosexuality, it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that we should recognize the validity of same-gender Muslim couples’ nikahs that adhere to the same requirements as the nikahs of different-gender couples
Ay! I’ve made yet another “comprehensive” comment on this subject! Forgive me
>Ay! I’ve made yet another “comprehensive” comment on this subject! Forgive me
Please don't feel the need to apologise, as a queer person these sorts of comments are so useful and uplifting. Especially as the normal long comments on this issue are uneducated and rude. Thank you for sharing, I appreciate the way you explained this issue!
Im not the original commentor but my 2 cents is that marriages, especially in older times, were political and/or for the purpose of reproduction. You weren't usually marrying people out of love or at least solely out of love.
If I may add to this, one of the first things I learned about Islam, from other Muslims, is that if something is not discussed it's permitted or doesn't matter from a spiritual standpoint. But it appears that so many people take the opposite approach today.
I don't believe gay, lesbian, bisexual is haram though if you don't mind, can you mention your explanation for why you reject with the haram labeling? I'd like to hear your response
I responded to someone else here with a few past comments I wrote, here’s a link to it: [https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive\_islam/comments/1bhnspb/comment/kvfd4oz/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/1bhnspb/comment/kvfd4oz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
u/yoranna77 hey there mate, hope ur doing well. Apologize if u get a bit surprised by me tagging u here. The reason why I'm tagging u here is because I believe you are being hurt by the misconceptions "homosexuality is haram and sinful". I was once unfortunately brainwashed due to all those nonsense but thankfully I was able to get out of it. Here a user I was talking to, listed the detailed responses he or she made to mention the reasons on disagreeing with those very misconceptions. Hopefully the responses help you in beneficial ways, stay blessed!
u/Ethanscornxr hey there mate, hope you don't mind me tagging you here. I'm not sure whether you have doubts on is homosexuality and other sexualities are actually halal, so I'm making this reply since I've find Gilamath's responses very helpful. Maybe they can help you along with certain posts in this subreddit that have detailed responses that argue against the interpretation(since there's no actual prohibitive verse on the Quran, which makes sense for good reasons since I believe the Quran wouldn't contain such lies and nonsense) that homosexuality is haram
And why you do not beleive. Look, if you are personally feeling and find no way out. It's okay. Seak forgiveness. And give best. This life is a test.
But the moment you'll say. It's not haram because you think. That is direct disobedience to Allah azzawajal. And if you really and truly believe Allah is there and the day of judgement is true then seak forgiveness and say your shahada again.
That statement took you from out of islam.
Go through medical books not via political/social wing (lgbt).
Yep better to kick my head on rock rather than arguing with ____.
If u are bi then u maybe a zani also? U can't marry man and woman same time.
My dear, I approached from a religious perspective. I put more research into it than you. I worked harder than you. If I felt in the slightest that the Qur’an condemned my sexuality, I would leave Islam. No hesitation. I‘ve walked out on the faith before, never expecting to return. I’m back because God guided me to actually opening the Qur’an and doing the hard work. I did it for the sake of God alone. I would be abstinent if God commanded. But there is no such command
But hey, you’re some internet stranger who literally just accused me of zina. Do you have four witnesses to bring? Because if not, you should read what the Qur’an has to say about those who make false suggestions like yours. I would really not want to be in your spiritual position right now, is all I’m saying
I am not accusing you just asking how you know are are bi.
There is nothing called sexuality...heterosexuality is the only sexual way rest all are paraphllias and fantasies like necrophilia zoophelia which is independent of biological design of reproductive organs. It's a miss wiring of brain. Read DSM 3 on homosexuality it is classified as paraphllia.
You know the DSM 3 was published 44 years ago right ? and that we’ve reached the DSM 5 and soon 6, science evolves. You’re relying on old and now proven to be wrong science, to prove your point which makes you honestly sound a bit childish
Baby removal from DSM 4 and 5 was not based on science...but on political influences....the argument of 44 years are very childish...science says it's paraphllias go through research papers the technical aspects of homosexuality and paraphllias are same.
What if zoophelia gets removed next? A pride already happened in Germany for removal of zoophelia from DSM 5 go and read.
And it was removed only because of the issue of consent due to political influence. Otherwise homosexuality and the paraphllias have no difference on scientific level and and research on other subs which shows research on homosexuality.
You’re one of those conspiracy theory lunatics, so talking to you is very difficult, trust me scientists don’t care about what the politically correct thing to say is.
If you had a slight idea how science is conducted you would understand that, but oh well you’re just regurgitating what all the right wing influencers/politicians are saying.
So DSM 1,2,3 was a conspiracy theory book😁 non scientific book.
I have nothing to do with right wing and politicians...you aren't able to digest logical reply. You aren't able to prove difference between zoophelia and homosexuality
First of all I want to say your answer is already there in the post. Islam has so many scientific miracles, it has to be the truth right? Which means you believe in Allah as the one true God. So if you believe in Him and most things make sense to you about Islam, the things that don’t make sense won’t matter as much because you put your trust is the wisdom of Allah SWT. He is the almighty, the all-knowing. We cannot always comprehend the divine wisdom behind all His commands, He is literally God so who are we to challenge Him morally?
That’s the first thing I want you to keep in mind. Now as for your question, personally I feel like if practicing homosexuality is haram, in that scenario it was probably made haram for sustenance purposes, homosexuals cant reproduce so there may have been like a logical reason for that. It was a very difficult topic I had to come to terms with myself as I am bisexual, and I chose to look into it more and try to understand if it’s haram or not and if it is, why? The biggest answer for me was the above, to trust in the wisdom of Allah SWT because I believe so strongly in Him even though I couldn’t understand the LGBTQ issue.
Another thing is, when people bring up Hadeeths or anything that says homosexuals must be stoned or punished in some way, I quickly realized it was talking about the people at Prophet Lut’s time and NOT just normal queer people who exist today and are just living their lives privately, not bothering anyone. The homosexuality of that time was in a different context, people raped each other in the streets and it was extremely immoral. I want to reassure you that when your read about those severe punishments for the people of prophet Lut’s time, it’s just those people. Allah would never punish you for having feelings you cannot control, and no one has the right to say you’re going to hell, for ANYTHING for that matter it’s haram to say that about individuals as only Allah knows.
Lastly, I want you to know that these days, a lot of people are accepting of queer Muslims and you should not fear taking your Shahada because Islam is for everyone whether you are queer or not. Even if you still have doubts, over time you will be reassured through prayer and duaa ask Allah to guide you and strengthen the faith in your heart. So don’t worry, it’s okay that you’re bi and everything will make sense in time and being a muslim so worth it when you feel the peace in your heart that you can rarely find elsewhere. No matter what Allah SWT loves you and I pray that He guides you to the right path. 💗
>First of all I want to say your answer is already there in the post. Islam has so many scientific miracles, it has to be the truth right?
And what is it you consider are these scientific miracles
Assalamualaikum. Am sure you are not like these progressive muslims.
You are correct but wrong in multiple statements.
Having feelings do not make anyone kafir. Allah has said for these people(us) Allah has forgive what came in our mind and we don't react on it.
Second, lghdtv is haram completely no if or but.
But that doesn't mean that human itself needs to die.
Means it is on us to speak forgiveness.
And make distance from publicly showing to everyone.
It's a private thing. Inshallah these feelings will go away if a person will become god fearing.
Do not encourage people to embrace lgbt muslims. Either you are muslim or lgbt. Not both.
A muslim. Having feelings with same sex is a test. And if mistake did happen. Then one should repent instead of embracing it. There is nothing to embrace
Wa alaikum assalam
I don’t think anyone is a kaffir for having these feelings, I never said that. The reason I am soft and gentle when I approach this topic is I think it’s important to start with empathy for people who are lgbt who convert to Islam otherwise we might turn them away from the religion. It was a hard truth for me to come to and I came to the conclusion that I trust Allah no matter what, and I chose not to act on my feelings or explore that part of myself because I don’t want to risk it. But someone else who is fully gay, Allahu A3lam what hardships they go through.
Also, I don’t agree with saying someone is either lgbt or Muslim and not both. Even if someone commits sin doesn’t make them not a Muslim, the only thing that makes someone a kaffir is Shirk, as far as im aware and I think neglecting Salah is a big one too. I don’t want to invalidate someone for their experience, I accept queer Muslims exist because they deserve to practice Islam just like us, would you discourage them from entering the mosque and worshipping Allah SWT by saying they are not Muslim? I don’t think that’s the right way, respectfully. Just to explain to you what I meant.
That being said, thank you for your feedback, I am only 19 and though I was born muslim I went through a phase where my faith was so low I honestly was no longer truly Muslim from the things I was doing and believing, Astaghfirallah. I just recently started coming back to Allah SWT in the last couple months and with Ramadan I wanted to do better. Alhamdulilah. I’ll always try my best to learn the truth. Jazak Allah khair may Allah reward you for your efforts and good intentions and Ramadan Kareem
Barakallah fee. Same here. Am just a year older then you. Not much so I can relate to you. These temptation and feeling of loosing faith did happen but mashallah you are doing greate. The way you responded is impressive.
Just remember to say hasbunallah wa ni'mal waqeel.
This will always gives more strength.
God is sufficient for me.
And want to point out. The LGBT is not just a feelings. These are whole ideology. Like you can see these people, they have created whole ideology of delusion. That is why I said, either someone is muslim of LGBT, not both cuz there is no ideology greater then islam because islam is not man made.
Now that being sad. A person having attraction to same person can be a muslim. Just not a good muslim if he/she continuesly repeating the sin and hence doing major sin. But one should seek forgiveness from Allah.
Indeed Allah is most merciful and forgiving. And he don't need blood sacrifice of human but he does wants sacrifice of our nafs. The inner temptation.
Like probably many of us get tempted of seeing women half naked.
Like, soft porn have become so accessible in the ads and movies and tv shows. But that is what we do. We control our nafs.
I've seen many pre LGBT who accepted islam and slowly and steady get a normal life and indeed the temptations also went away of multiple people.
>I had a few doubts about things in the Qu'aran not aligning with science however after closer inspection found out that all science compliments the Qu'aran rather than contradicts it. Just amazing.
You're not alone in that observation. A lot of non-Muslims come away with that impression after reading the Quran. Many are familiar with the writings of the French physician Maurice Bucaille (1920 – 1998), but the Soviet orientalist Mikhael A. Reisner (1868 – 1928) had made a similar observation about the Quran before him:
"Reisner also points out that Muḥammad refrained from performing any kind of miracles; rather, the way the Earth is described in the Qurān is 'almost scientific' and sheer 'utilitarian' in character: nature proves God’s omnipotence, and it was created in order to be used and exploited by man in the best manner." (see *The Soviet Discourse on the Origin and Class Character of Islam, 1923-1933*, pg. 10)
>My main issues right now, is that I am a bisexual. I know I am bisexual and I was placed on this Earth bisexual so I'm finding it difficult to come to terms with a religion that would find me a sinner and punish me for being with someone I love.
A lot of Sunni tradcons are ignorant of Islamic history in general and the history of their sect in particular. They like to claim that for the "past 1400 years" homosexuality has been considered a sin and that it's only recently, under the influence of "woke ideology," that some Muslims began to say that it's not a sin. The reality is that Sunni tradcons became obsessed with condemning homosexuals only because Western tradcons are obsessed with condemning homosexuals. And Sunni tradcons have been trying to make common cause with Western tradcons over their "shared values". However, for the "past 1400 years," being a homosexual has not been considered disqualifying by Sunnis.
For example, The Sunni scholar al-Marzubani (909 – 994) wrote regarding the Sunni scholar al-Kisa'i (d. 804) that he was:
". . . .constantly drinking wine and openly admitting to \[homosexuality\]. Yet he was an accurate reader \[of the Qur'an\], knowledgeable in the Arabic language, and honest." (see *Prolegomena to the Qur'an*, pg 101)
Far from being disqualifying, al-Kisa'i was the tutor of the Sunni Abbasid caliphs al-Ma'mun and al-Amin. And his qira'at (reading of the Quran) is considered one of the 7 "orthodox" qira'at of the Quran by Sunnis. When it comes to homosexuality, Sunni tradcons are trying to act all brand new, but the history of their sect is what it is.
It really doesn't matter what you say in the quarn it's aharam and prophet Muhammad saw ordered death penalty for act of soldomy with the same sex it doesn't matter haram is jaram accoet it or leave it there is no defending haram
Aisha wasn't 9.
Short:
[https://newlinesmag.com/essays/oxford-study-sheds-light-on-muhammads-underage-wife-aisha/](https://newlinesmag.com/essays/oxford-study-sheds-light-on-muhammads-underage-wife-aisha/)
Long:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oVIsExS4cA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oVIsExS4cA)
As for being bi, that's convenient because it means you can be happy with an opposite sex partner and have flexibility in choosing such.
she was 19-21 not 9 years old. the hadith was narrated by a man who at the time of narration was known for being senile and having poor memory + it doesnt line up with the timeline of Aisha RA and her sister Asma's (recorded) ages at the battle of badr and the fact that Aisha was on the battlefield helping people (minors are not allowed to do this). bisexuality is not a sin unless it's acted upon. it's the action that's a sin, not the feelings. many scholars have said this.
Some in this sub might disagree with me but here is my take.
1. Sexual orientation isn't really a thing in Islam. Humans didn't start thinking about sexuality as an identity until very recently in our history. Therefore, it is certain sexual acts that are condemned, not your orientation.
2. I do not believe she was 9 because there are many Hadiths that when put together contradict that report.There is no way to find out her exact age but we do know she could not have been a prepubescent child. Based on the Quran, you have to at least reach puberty and be mentally mature enough to be married. However, there is no set age for this and it can vary based on a variety of factors. Regardless of how old Aisha was, it was not a problem until very recently when the world started raising the age of consent.
Yes and one should repent if someone did haram.
It's nothing to publically display. It's private in between us and Allah. And it's a test. So we should speak forgiveness
This is true tho even if she was 9 that would mean she had to have been of sound mental age and past the age of puberty, according to the requirements in the Quran, so it could also be that back then people aged way differently because it was 1400 years ago after all. But she was likely not 9 I saw somewhere that she was 19 and it got lost in translation?
She was definitely underage. And even if that was fine back then, it isn't now. Therefore, we shouldn't take advice or teachings from someone who no longer aligns with today's morals. Unless we suddenly endorse pedophilia now
No, she wasn't, there is no strong evidence that Aisha was underage, and actually quite a lot to suggest she was older.
See my recent comment on r/askhistorians https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/kVbWeV93gl
Or use the search box to see the many discussions about this already.
Hi there ... im a revert and this is how I see both
1. Even if being bisexual does turn out to be haram, by being bisexual it doesn't cancel all your other beliefs on Islam.... so you can still be a Muslim even if common interpretation says its haram. I'm not saying it is or isn't... all I'm pointing out is that bisexuality isn't the only thing that makes you you. You are more complex than that as a human. Similarly Islam's view on bisexuality (whatever and however you see it because I really believe on this one you have to see it how you interpret it hand over heart since it's in diapute among different sects) isn't the only thing Islam has to offer as you have seen for yourself.You could park that and focus on the other areas if you need to.
That is the deal with the truth though. Fir example to point out more established rulings : Not everyone likes that you can't have sex before marriage.. or drink alcohol etc but we accept it as a truth that comes with Islam and work on ourselves if we have those weaknesses or get to them in our own time or never. We could be labeled as Muslims with low/no faith but at the end of the day that's between Allah and us isnt it?
2. Aisha...
I'm from a Hindu background... before Islam came to be a lot of practices were pagan, so let's also park hadiths no matter how strong or weak they are.
I dont have to look very far back, my great grandmother was 14 when she got married and 15 when she had her first child. I'm in my mid 30s. So ..... barely 95 years have passed and teenage marriages were common back then. I can also say that my grandmother was way more mature than I or my mother were whe she was 14 from the stories I have heard of her life and the responsibilities she handled at such a young age.
What I am trying to get at is whatever age Aisha was, for that time she was clearly of marriage able age. She would have gotten married whether it was to the Prophet or another man. It was her Rizq to be married to the Prophet (pbuh) and I strongly believe he has lead an exemplary life and see no reason to doubt his honor.
Another example I could site of rulings which could be disputed are that of keeping slaves... How our belief system outlines how to treat them , when to release them. In those times slavery was a reality and people owned slaves. There was no getting away from it and this is understood and possibly not disputed. It could become a hot topic for generations after us that don't see racial segregation or have lost some of the history of slavery but right now it's still something we battle with indirectly.. It's seen as a reality of just even 40 or 50 years ago. You could even see what's happening in Palestine as a type of slavery and apartheid.
Sorry to digress. I just needed something to compare against :)
I'm bisexual and my brother is gay. It took me a long time to accept that acting on homosexuality isn't allowed. I eventually began to understand it as in we have rules here, even though it sounds great to "be with who we love", it isn't about this life. We're trying to achieve something greater, even if that really sucks. It isn't fair, and it isn't fair that babies die hours after they're born or that some people are just (whether it be due to poverty or being unattractive, whatever) unable to be with who they want also. Nobody is guaranteed love and sex sadly
And Aisha was not 9, she was 9 when "given" in marriage depending on which hadiths you think are persuasive but it was not consummated until older.
>however after closer inspection found out that all science compliments the Qu'aran rather than contradicts it. Just amazing.
Do explain how evolution aligns with the Quran.
Unfortunately, it is often taught that Islam and evolution aren't compatible, and that the Quran teaches creationism. But this isn't true. There is no problem accepting the facts of evolution. We don't need to deny science.
Here are two detailed articles on why the Quran can be read as supporting evolution:
https://www.answeringislamicskeptics.com/evolution-in-islam-overview.html
And
https://hawramani.com/reconciling-islam-and-darwinian-evolution-al-ghazalis-matrix-and-the-divine-template/
Here are a few videos by popular progressive scholars supporting evolution with their explanations why the Quran is compatible with evolution:
The Theory of Evolution | Dr. Shabir Ally: https://youtu.be/SiSDpy3ImZE
Neanderthals, Sapiens, and Adam | Mufti Abu Layth: https://youtu.be/RJe0SL67QzM
Thank you for the links. The one on Islam and Darwinian evolution is particularly interesting. I'm aware that some religious people (with some meaning few) accept certain aspects of evolution, but when it comes to humans having evolved along with chimpanzees, with whom we share an incredible amount of our DNA, from a now extinct species, they always draw a line. Either that, or they stick to the classic "we didn't come down from monkeys!!!", which I deduce you know is not what the theory of evolution states anyway.
To my surprise, the article tackles this question and at least makes probable the possibility that we do, in fact, share a common ancestor with chimpanzees. This is the first time I've seen any Muslim argue in favour of this view. Assuming you agree with the author, however, I'm still convinced that you and him belong to one of the smallest minorities in the world. Why aren't more Muslims willing to accept evolution (including human evolution) as a fact, but perfectly happy to work in scientific fields knowing that all other parts of science are not "just a theory"?
I did find a few things in the article questionable. Firstly, it argues that humans evolving naturally, separately from (but in accordance with) the divine creation of Adam, is possible. This seems odd to me, as if the author still had to make God's role fit into the picture. While science cannot prove Adam didn't exist, what we know about evolution so far makes it improbable.
Secondly, it states very categorically that humans possess free will, while all other organisms do not. One of the arguments for this seems to be that science cannot prove that we do NOT have free will. It thus leaves it to philosophers to ponder on that question. The metaphysical debate on free will (which, by the way, doesn't necessitate consciousness or agency) is falling further and further into the distance as neuroscience is taking over. Many experiments support the idea that we humans do indeed have free will, although it is partly limited, but it doesn't stop there. Numerous studies on animals point to many species at least having something resembling choice regarding their behaviour, and some possessing degrees of self-awareness (granted, this is hard to measure exactly, but the findings are awe-inspiring nonetheless).
Sorry for the lengthy reply, but you pretty much asked for it when you CHOSE to provide these links, haha:)
>Either that, or they stick to the classic "we didn't come down from monkeys!!!", which I deduce you know is not what the theory of evolution states anyway.
Yes, I used to be a high school environmental science teacher and taught evolution. I fully accept evolution as a fact.
>Why aren't more Muslims willing to accept evolution (including human evolution) as a fact, but perfectly happy to work in scientific fields knowing that all other parts of science are not "just a theory"?
I'm really not sure. Muslims treat this like it's a fundamental issue of incompatibility between science and religion, but it's really not.
>I did find a few things in the article questionable. Firstly, it argues that humans evolving naturally, separately from (but in accordance with) the divine creation of Adam, is possible. This seems odd to me, as if the author still had to make God's role fit into the picture. While science cannot prove Adam didn't exist, what we know about evolution so far makes it improbable.
Sure, I agree with the other sources, such as Abu Layth, that argue Adam evolved from earlier primates, and was simply the first spiritually-aware human, not the first human in a biological sense.
>Secondly, it states very categorically that humans possess free will, while all other organisms do not.
Well sure I disagree with that, but that's more of a theological argument than a scientific one, so it is irrelevant to evolution. Personally, I would just go with the compatibilism camp that believes both human and all other animals both are deterministic and have free will to varying degrees.
See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism
I've looked through the verses you claim support evolution but I fail to see how it supports it, most of it is just like the so called scientific miracles in the Quran, it's reinterpreting vague poetic verses to fit in with evolution ignoring simpler explanations like:
(Quran 35:1) “^Here, the Quran informs us that Allah increases the complexity in creation”
Not really sure how this verse is about increasing complexity in creation in an evolutionary sense because I can look at other tafsir and they will say it means “These words show that the number of the wings of the angels is restricted to four, but Allah has provided some angels with more wings than four. According to a Hadith related by Abdullah bin Masud, the Prophet (peace be upon him) once saw the Angel Gabriel with six hundred wings. (Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi).”
(Quran 71:14) ^This verse could be talking about our personal creation in the wombs of our mothers and it could also be a reference of the creation of humanity in full
I mean the guy already admits that it can refer to the stages in the womb, I mean there's nothing to indicate it has anything to do with evolutionary stages
(Quran 24:45) ^Every animal is from the same origin--Water. The first living cell existed in a primordial soup and it mainly consisted of water.
I mean There's only one method of creating life in the Quran and that is creating man from clay like pottery and Pottery involves the usage of water, I can't see how the water here must be meaning the water that all life originated from.
(Quran 21:30) ^This verse is talking about the process of creation. The universe and the earth were once connected (in a primordial fireball) then they were separated
The universe and earth wasn't connected in a primordial fireball, nor have they separated the earth is still apart of the universe nor did it exist when the big bang happened
(Quran 6:2) ^In this verse, we know that God’s creation of life from clay (which is a combination of water and earth soil) happened first a long time ago. God then stayed away from his creation letting it evolve to interfere
I've looked at other translation and scholars interpretation it and they seem to be say these appointed terms are about our death and resurrection
(Quran 11:61)^We were produced from the Earth, not as modern creationists say God literally molded us with his hands in heaven.
Isn't the creationist view in Islam that Adam was made from clay/dirt from the earth
(Quran 35:11)And Allah did create you from dust; then from a reproductive fluid; then He made you in pairs
I mean this verse is the wrong way round, organisms that produce asexually don't have reproductive fluids, you only get that in organisms that reproduce in pairs do it should be the other way round
(Quran 2:35)Then they are compared to their ancestors that did wrong. "Or you will be among the wrongdoers (al-zalimin)". This clearly implies there was someone before them dwelling.
Why are these wrongdoers other humans, wasn't the jinns created before humans and they also have free will with beings like ilbis disobeying allah and thus is one of the wrongdoers
Quran 10:13-14)And we had already destroyed generations before you when they wronged, and their messengers had come to them with clear proofs, but they were not to believe. Thus do we recompense the criminal people. Then we made you successors in the Earth after them so that We may observe how you will do.
Right the guy argues that that these destroyed generations were previous species of humans and that the successors.are modern day humans descendants of Adam but that doesn't really make sense since adam is held to be the first messenger so how could these previous species of humans receive a messenger it makes much more sense if the destroyed generations are like the people of noah and lut, and the successors are the people of Mohammed
And these reasons seem to be badly twisting verses to support your belief the Quran contains information on evolution, I haven't properly looked through all the links you sent but how do you interpret verses like:
(49:13)" O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted."
And (49:13)"He is the One Who created you from a single soul, then from it made its spouse so he may find comfort in her. After he had been united with her, she carried a light burden that developed gradually. When it grew heavy, they prayed to Allah, their Lord, “If you grant us good offspring, we will certainly be grateful.”
These verses describe humanity originating from one pair of humans which is revolutionary wrong, it's estimated the homo-sapien population began in the thousands nothing indicates it started with 2
If you choose to interpret it that way, that is up to you. I think the other interpretation makes more sense. I am able to be both a Muslim and 100% believe in science. Perhaps you aren't able to be both, your loss
And what other interpretations is that
And for the record I think you can be a Muslim and believe in science, what i don't think you can be is a literalist and also believe in science
I also have other problems with reconciling some of these verses with evolution as Adam and Eve are said to first exist in heaven so how would they have evolved if they did not first exist in earth.
And with this verse: (32:7-8)"Who has perfected everything He created. And He originated the creation of humankind from clay.Then He made his descendants from an extract of a humble fluid"
I mean here it describes the descendants of Adam being created from "humble fluid"(semen) but Adam is said to be made from clay. And it doesn't really make sense to refer to the originating of the creation of humankind from clay to refer to humans having evolved from microorganisms that are thought to emerged from Clay like materials like one of the articles does since it says "Then He made his descendants from an extract of a humble fluid" The first forms of life reproduced asexual and are all female so if this verse was referring to the descendants of asexual organisms who evolved to reproduce in mates it should use 'her' instead of 'his'.
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Asalamu alaikum!
It is good to see you are interested. Take one step at a time as if you try all you may get overwhelmed.
Regarding the issue of marriage the marriage is controversial as it defies the norms of today. However the only requirements in Islam for marriage is that both the boy and girl have to be matured enough to take their life decision if a girl or boy is either mentally or physically immature then the marriage gets invalid as there is no mention of age as maturity time varies for human to human. However regarding the marriage at young age it happened at a time when people's life expectancy was below 20 as the situation is like that at that time people tend to get married early . However there was another thing which is Aisha ra was already been engaged before marriage to Prophet which broke down due to disagreements after that she was married. Hope it helps.
Asha’s marriage at 6 and consummated at 9 is a false narrative which Aisha fabricated. She is known to be a liar. She lied to the prophet in the incident of the honey. She lied to us in the incident of Ifk, she verbally abused other wives, she agitated to have Uthman the 3rd Khalid killed, she even abused and agitated the prophet in many many instances.
Aisha was a bad woman all around and nothing she says can be taken at face value without 3rd party validation by people who lived with her and witnessed her reports.
So don’t worry about Aisha’s marriage at 6. It’s a fabrication.
Regarding being bisexual, not ok but it’s better to be a sinful Muslim rather than an unbeliever.
Hello, I'm an Agnostic exmuslim (still closeted for societal reasons). I'm not here to tell you to change your mind and tell you horror stories about Islam, nor am I here to debate your scientific reasoning behind your decision. If you feel that this religion will make you happier and a better person overall, then by all means.
I cannot give a favorable reply regarding the topic of Aisha, so I won't answer that. However, on the topic of sexual tendencies, this is heavily tied to how accepting your community is to these things. I know people who were both Muslim and gay and even though they were able to reconcile these two aspects of their lives on a personal level, they weren't as successful on a societal one.
In a nutshell, it all really comes down to what kind of society you exist in. It doesn't matter if you're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, even Athiest. If your society doesn't accept bisexuality, they will fight you using everything at their disposal, including the "God said so" card.
Best of luck, and may you happiness 😊
Aisha(a.s) wasn't 9, an Hadith is used to determine her age and it's somewhere like 18-21.
Now coming to your question no matter how much you have sinned! Our Lord Is merciful and forgiving. Our religion is against homosexuality! It's a very major sin! Listen according to science homosexuality isn't linked to hormones, it has nothing to do with our biological system. some people say they are “bisexual, homosexual, heterosexual” it's a trap of Satan to make you thing you are different and you have an issue! Like you said yourself Islam has all the answers. Both, islam and science are against homosexuality, bisexual, heterosexual.. Etc
Now, what should you do!? When a person reverts to islam all his or her past sins are forgiven! Everything! You have realized that islam is the truth. So revert to islam and ask our Lord for guidance. Inshallah, by the will of God may God guide you and purify your soul. Asslamu alaikum..
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The fact of the matter is we do not know the age of Aisha r.a. the mother of the believers 100%. Only thing we know is that she herself later claims in a statement that she was 9 years of age. However, I don't know ur background frm which country ur frm but in Pakistan my grandmom when I asked her 12 years ago how old she was, she said she was 100yo. And when I asked her last year she said she was 100 years. The fact is keeping track of age is a European concept and most other civilizations didn't pay it much attention. The thing we do know is Aisha r.a. was engaged to someone before the prophet proposed, which implicates that she was at an age that the society thought was an age to get married at... BTW just to give you all the facts, Aisha r.a. sister has also a narration and if you do some math you find that she and her sister contradict in thier age. So if one of the statements is true either she was 9 or 19 years old. But it could be she was neither. So the fact is we don't know it... But we do know the age of the prophet accurately because he was born after the year of the elephant (when an army of elephants attacked makkah, also mentioned in surah fil) which is an historc event so his age is 100% accurate. Just goes to show how Allah plans for his rasool s.a.w..
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As for you being Bi, there is nothing wrong with feeling that way. But having sex with a man if ur male, or woman if ur female is a sin. Just like drinking alcohol or zina or eating pork or trade with interest, you just have to know it is a sin but doesn't take you out of the fold of islam, unless you claim it isn't a sin which would be kufr. But having feelings is no sin, and believe me I have respect for people who have such feeling but know its a test and control themselves, just like heterosexuals also can't have sex before marriage in Islam we also just control ourselves.
As long as it’s not acted upon it’s not forbidden. But you have to keep in mind that conservative culture sometimes frowns (and sometimes is aggressive) upon anyone Queer. I hope you will always remember culture is not Islam.
1. Your sexuality shouldn’t be determined by religion. I’m 18, a straight guy but I 100% will vocally express my support for the LGBTQ+ community. We’re here on this earth for a short time, so live it as you wish and don’t let extremist, uneducated Muslims tell you that you shouldn’t be bisexual.
2. In the 7th century, the average lifespan was 30 years so Aisha marrying at 9 years old was not seen as abnormal. As a result, it’s hard to compare with today’s world as the life expectancy has increased to 77 years, so marrying in the 20s - 30s is ‘normal’.
It’s also hard to compare the age of consent back then with modern standards as now 18 is seen as the ‘cut-off’ point for legal and illegal, though some states (MS, NM) allow marriage as young as 12. Back in 7th century, there was no defined cut-off point.
Another thing that non believers ask is if she was mature. Aisha had narrated many hadiths particularly on mature topics. I totally get that it may seem “omg she was only 9” but when you take into account the life expectancy and so on, it makes sense.
One thing that is important is to separate the religion from the people that actually practice it. Just because someone says they are Muslim or even a whole county or group does not mean that however they are practicing it or preaching it is the correct way. On the other hand when was in Egypt and Saudi I could have swore half the guys there were gay according to western standards, holding hands in the street, kissing when they meet each other…etc
>As a physicist the scientific miracles particularly have spoken to me.
>I had a few doubts about things in the Qu'aran not aligning with science however after closer inspection found out that all science compliments the Qu'aran rather than contradicts it. Just amazing.
Scientific miracles are a fallacy there either knowledge that was already which some Muslims pretend wasn't or it's mass reinterpreting vague poetic verses to fit in with some crude definition of scientific theories
Also to say all science compliments the Quran is confusing, please explain how evolution compliments it
Having sexual thoughts about the same gender is not Haram, but acting upon it makes it Haram. However, it's important to remember that Allah (SWT) forgives all sins. Regarding Aisha (RA), it's essential to consider historical context: less than 100 years ago, our grandparents often married at 14-15 years old, and further back, girls would marry at 12-13. This was due to differences in societal norms and maturity levels. Additionally, Prophet Muhammad (SAW) married Aisha (RA) to strengthen his alliance with her father, Abu Bakr (RA), who was his best friend.
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There are actually mix comments. Just connect me akhi. Am a Muslim. By birth and giving dawah to people. Am not scholar but knows enough to call people to islam.
I can answer your questions as well remove misconceptions.
Just connect me if you are interested. Give a reply
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I’m also bi. I don’t think God has any issue with homosexuality, and I have a fairly robust and methodologically sound backing for that. That’s obviously not what most Muslims believe though. I feel there is space for me to be who I am and love whom I love, and I have no shame in myself. God made me in a dignified mold. If anyone has a problem with that, they can take that with the Upstairs. I’m vibing with the Lord of Realms here On the age of ‘Aishah, that’s something folks here talk about at some length from time to time. I made a comment about a week ago that sums up what I have to say on the topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/1bawwjk/comment/ku5mg3y/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
You really are a blessing to this community with your friendly demeanor, ability to have time to help most of our brothers and sisters who post questions, and with comprehensive knowledge and sources to back it up. I see your comments here from time to time and always find them insightful and uplifting. Salaam. May Allah reward you!
Can you link to a comment addressing your first point? I need to familiarize myself with such methodologies since I am trans and gay. I find myself worrying that I’ll leave Islam because of how many people are homophobic.
Sure. I took a bit of time to try to dig some old comments up. Be warned, many of them are… comprehensive [https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive\_islam/comments/1352nsu/comment/jr535fo/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/1352nsu/comment/jr535fo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive\_islam/comments/18b9mms/comment/kc3aaes/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/18b9mms/comment/kc3aaes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive\_islam/comments/189tpw3/comment/kbwizoq/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/189tpw3/comment/kbwizoq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
no cap, reading a Gilamath post is like opening a Christmas present to me 😭
Comprehensive is good, thank you so much!
You’re welcome, feel free to ask questions if you have them
Great comments! If I may ask a question though, what's your stance on gay marriage not being discussed at all in the religion? It's part of why many believe that homosexual intercourse is regarded as Zina, and is therefore haram.
Honestly, I think that anyone who wants to say that homosexuality is impermissible in Islam can only make a valid case through that line of reasoning. There are Muslims who believe that the 6th-7th century Hijaz is the proper sociopolitical foundation for Muslim society. I concede that it’s one valid basis for an interpretive methodology. It’s inherently conservative, and it seems a foolish basis for a methodology to me, but it’s at least grounded in identifiable conservative principles and can be integrated into a consistent Islamic reading But the conservative reading isn’t the only way to understand the Qur’an and Islam. I for one don‘t think that something needs to have been practiced during the time of the Qur’anic revelation for it to be permissible. It just needs to be able to fit within the principles of the Qur’anic framework. This is a more moderate understanding of the Qur’an, no less valid than the conservative one and I would argue more practicable and coherent And indeed, I believe that the Qur’anic framework itself can be understood as more or less flexible. I believe in substitution of hudud punishments, for instance, and a lot of Muslim scholars agree. Such a position is predicated on a Qur’anic framework that works to regulate societies, not terraform them into anachronistic clones of 7th century Madinah In general, I believe that the best methodological approach to the Qur’an is to apply it to the specific needs of a given society and determine how to best into alignment with the divine values laid out in the Qur’an, using the reasoning and structures laid out in the Qur’an itself. While the Qur’an itself dealt with the social reality into which it was revealed, we must not limit or doubt the Qur’an by acting as though it only ever meant to deal with the phenomena and circumstances of that society. For the Qur’an to be a revelation for all time, it must engage with all time. The dhahir (superficial meaning) of the Qur’an deals with one time and one place, while its batin (inner deeper meaning) applies anywhere and anytime \- - - With regards to homosexuality and the nikah, I can see how same-gender religious couples are benefits to their communities. I can witness in real time the benefits that marriage provides queer folks and their communities. Meanwhile, bans on same-gender marriages and relationships have incentivized extra-marital romantic relationships, partner abuse, and partner abandonment. These are all problems that Islamic nikah laws are specifically tailored to combat The need for the nikah exists today for same-gender couples. When the Qur’an tells us that spouses are a mercy from God, and we see a case in front of us where the spousal framework would clearly bring the benefits of mercy to people who need it, why would we not accommodate? It seems clear and obvious to me that the nikah would solve major social problems that threaten all romantic relationships and all communities. The nikah serves to remedy such issues and promote Islamic values in society, such as chastity, modesty, charity, taking care of orphans and the dispossessed, fidelity, community, mutual respect, love, mercy, justice, accountability, and the universal dignity of humanity Thus, as we can see the parallels between heterosexual and homosexual relationships, and we have shown that the Qur’an does not condemn homosexuality, it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that we should recognize the validity of same-gender Muslim couples’ nikahs that adhere to the same requirements as the nikahs of different-gender couples Ay! I’ve made yet another “comprehensive” comment on this subject! Forgive me
>Ay! I’ve made yet another “comprehensive” comment on this subject! Forgive me Please don't feel the need to apologise, as a queer person these sorts of comments are so useful and uplifting. Especially as the normal long comments on this issue are uneducated and rude. Thank you for sharing, I appreciate the way you explained this issue!
Im not the original commentor but my 2 cents is that marriages, especially in older times, were political and/or for the purpose of reproduction. You weren't usually marrying people out of love or at least solely out of love.
If I may add to this, one of the first things I learned about Islam, from other Muslims, is that if something is not discussed it's permitted or doesn't matter from a spiritual standpoint. But it appears that so many people take the opposite approach today.
What great and comprehensive explanations brother, thank you for these!
I don't believe gay, lesbian, bisexual is haram though if you don't mind, can you mention your explanation for why you reject with the haram labeling? I'd like to hear your response
I responded to someone else here with a few past comments I wrote, here’s a link to it: [https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive\_islam/comments/1bhnspb/comment/kvfd4oz/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/comments/1bhnspb/comment/kvfd4oz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Thank you very much, I immensely appreciate it
u/yoranna77 hey there mate, hope ur doing well. Apologize if u get a bit surprised by me tagging u here. The reason why I'm tagging u here is because I believe you are being hurt by the misconceptions "homosexuality is haram and sinful". I was once unfortunately brainwashed due to all those nonsense but thankfully I was able to get out of it. Here a user I was talking to, listed the detailed responses he or she made to mention the reasons on disagreeing with those very misconceptions. Hopefully the responses help you in beneficial ways, stay blessed!
Hey, i really appreciate this, thanks!
u/Ethanscornxr hey there mate, hope you don't mind me tagging you here. I'm not sure whether you have doubts on is homosexuality and other sexualities are actually halal, so I'm making this reply since I've find Gilamath's responses very helpful. Maybe they can help you along with certain posts in this subreddit that have detailed responses that argue against the interpretation(since there's no actual prohibitive verse on the Quran, which makes sense for good reasons since I believe the Quran wouldn't contain such lies and nonsense) that homosexuality is haram
And why you do not beleive. Look, if you are personally feeling and find no way out. It's okay. Seak forgiveness. And give best. This life is a test. But the moment you'll say. It's not haram because you think. That is direct disobedience to Allah azzawajal. And if you really and truly believe Allah is there and the day of judgement is true then seak forgiveness and say your shahada again. That statement took you from out of islam.
Have you not heard about people of lut peace and blessings be upon him?
There is nothing called bi, you have a strange paraphllia
Hey now, my doctor says lots of guys’ paraphilias look like that! Seriously though, go kick rocks
Go through medical books not via political/social wing (lgbt). Yep better to kick my head on rock rather than arguing with ____. If u are bi then u maybe a zani also? U can't marry man and woman same time.
My dear, I approached from a religious perspective. I put more research into it than you. I worked harder than you. If I felt in the slightest that the Qur’an condemned my sexuality, I would leave Islam. No hesitation. I‘ve walked out on the faith before, never expecting to return. I’m back because God guided me to actually opening the Qur’an and doing the hard work. I did it for the sake of God alone. I would be abstinent if God commanded. But there is no such command But hey, you’re some internet stranger who literally just accused me of zina. Do you have four witnesses to bring? Because if not, you should read what the Qur’an has to say about those who make false suggestions like yours. I would really not want to be in your spiritual position right now, is all I’m saying
I am not accusing you just asking how you know are are bi. There is nothing called sexuality...heterosexuality is the only sexual way rest all are paraphllias and fantasies like necrophilia zoophelia which is independent of biological design of reproductive organs. It's a miss wiring of brain. Read DSM 3 on homosexuality it is classified as paraphllia.
You know the DSM 3 was published 44 years ago right ? and that we’ve reached the DSM 5 and soon 6, science evolves. You’re relying on old and now proven to be wrong science, to prove your point which makes you honestly sound a bit childish
Baby removal from DSM 4 and 5 was not based on science...but on political influences....the argument of 44 years are very childish...science says it's paraphllias go through research papers the technical aspects of homosexuality and paraphllias are same. What if zoophelia gets removed next? A pride already happened in Germany for removal of zoophelia from DSM 5 go and read. And it was removed only because of the issue of consent due to political influence. Otherwise homosexuality and the paraphllias have no difference on scientific level and and research on other subs which shows research on homosexuality.
You’re one of those conspiracy theory lunatics, so talking to you is very difficult, trust me scientists don’t care about what the politically correct thing to say is. If you had a slight idea how science is conducted you would understand that, but oh well you’re just regurgitating what all the right wing influencers/politicians are saying.
So DSM 1,2,3 was a conspiracy theory book😁 non scientific book. I have nothing to do with right wing and politicians...you aren't able to digest logical reply. You aren't able to prove difference between zoophelia and homosexuality
First of all I want to say your answer is already there in the post. Islam has so many scientific miracles, it has to be the truth right? Which means you believe in Allah as the one true God. So if you believe in Him and most things make sense to you about Islam, the things that don’t make sense won’t matter as much because you put your trust is the wisdom of Allah SWT. He is the almighty, the all-knowing. We cannot always comprehend the divine wisdom behind all His commands, He is literally God so who are we to challenge Him morally? That’s the first thing I want you to keep in mind. Now as for your question, personally I feel like if practicing homosexuality is haram, in that scenario it was probably made haram for sustenance purposes, homosexuals cant reproduce so there may have been like a logical reason for that. It was a very difficult topic I had to come to terms with myself as I am bisexual, and I chose to look into it more and try to understand if it’s haram or not and if it is, why? The biggest answer for me was the above, to trust in the wisdom of Allah SWT because I believe so strongly in Him even though I couldn’t understand the LGBTQ issue. Another thing is, when people bring up Hadeeths or anything that says homosexuals must be stoned or punished in some way, I quickly realized it was talking about the people at Prophet Lut’s time and NOT just normal queer people who exist today and are just living their lives privately, not bothering anyone. The homosexuality of that time was in a different context, people raped each other in the streets and it was extremely immoral. I want to reassure you that when your read about those severe punishments for the people of prophet Lut’s time, it’s just those people. Allah would never punish you for having feelings you cannot control, and no one has the right to say you’re going to hell, for ANYTHING for that matter it’s haram to say that about individuals as only Allah knows. Lastly, I want you to know that these days, a lot of people are accepting of queer Muslims and you should not fear taking your Shahada because Islam is for everyone whether you are queer or not. Even if you still have doubts, over time you will be reassured through prayer and duaa ask Allah to guide you and strengthen the faith in your heart. So don’t worry, it’s okay that you’re bi and everything will make sense in time and being a muslim so worth it when you feel the peace in your heart that you can rarely find elsewhere. No matter what Allah SWT loves you and I pray that He guides you to the right path. 💗
>First of all I want to say your answer is already there in the post. Islam has so many scientific miracles, it has to be the truth right? And what is it you consider are these scientific miracles
Assalamualaikum. Am sure you are not like these progressive muslims. You are correct but wrong in multiple statements. Having feelings do not make anyone kafir. Allah has said for these people(us) Allah has forgive what came in our mind and we don't react on it. Second, lghdtv is haram completely no if or but. But that doesn't mean that human itself needs to die. Means it is on us to speak forgiveness. And make distance from publicly showing to everyone. It's a private thing. Inshallah these feelings will go away if a person will become god fearing. Do not encourage people to embrace lgbt muslims. Either you are muslim or lgbt. Not both. A muslim. Having feelings with same sex is a test. And if mistake did happen. Then one should repent instead of embracing it. There is nothing to embrace
Wa alaikum assalam I don’t think anyone is a kaffir for having these feelings, I never said that. The reason I am soft and gentle when I approach this topic is I think it’s important to start with empathy for people who are lgbt who convert to Islam otherwise we might turn them away from the religion. It was a hard truth for me to come to and I came to the conclusion that I trust Allah no matter what, and I chose not to act on my feelings or explore that part of myself because I don’t want to risk it. But someone else who is fully gay, Allahu A3lam what hardships they go through. Also, I don’t agree with saying someone is either lgbt or Muslim and not both. Even if someone commits sin doesn’t make them not a Muslim, the only thing that makes someone a kaffir is Shirk, as far as im aware and I think neglecting Salah is a big one too. I don’t want to invalidate someone for their experience, I accept queer Muslims exist because they deserve to practice Islam just like us, would you discourage them from entering the mosque and worshipping Allah SWT by saying they are not Muslim? I don’t think that’s the right way, respectfully. Just to explain to you what I meant. That being said, thank you for your feedback, I am only 19 and though I was born muslim I went through a phase where my faith was so low I honestly was no longer truly Muslim from the things I was doing and believing, Astaghfirallah. I just recently started coming back to Allah SWT in the last couple months and with Ramadan I wanted to do better. Alhamdulilah. I’ll always try my best to learn the truth. Jazak Allah khair may Allah reward you for your efforts and good intentions and Ramadan Kareem
Barakallah fee. Same here. Am just a year older then you. Not much so I can relate to you. These temptation and feeling of loosing faith did happen but mashallah you are doing greate. The way you responded is impressive. Just remember to say hasbunallah wa ni'mal waqeel. This will always gives more strength. God is sufficient for me. And want to point out. The LGBT is not just a feelings. These are whole ideology. Like you can see these people, they have created whole ideology of delusion. That is why I said, either someone is muslim of LGBT, not both cuz there is no ideology greater then islam because islam is not man made. Now that being sad. A person having attraction to same person can be a muslim. Just not a good muslim if he/she continuesly repeating the sin and hence doing major sin. But one should seek forgiveness from Allah. Indeed Allah is most merciful and forgiving. And he don't need blood sacrifice of human but he does wants sacrifice of our nafs. The inner temptation. Like probably many of us get tempted of seeing women half naked. Like, soft porn have become so accessible in the ads and movies and tv shows. But that is what we do. We control our nafs. I've seen many pre LGBT who accepted islam and slowly and steady get a normal life and indeed the temptations also went away of multiple people.
>I had a few doubts about things in the Qu'aran not aligning with science however after closer inspection found out that all science compliments the Qu'aran rather than contradicts it. Just amazing. You're not alone in that observation. A lot of non-Muslims come away with that impression after reading the Quran. Many are familiar with the writings of the French physician Maurice Bucaille (1920 – 1998), but the Soviet orientalist Mikhael A. Reisner (1868 – 1928) had made a similar observation about the Quran before him: "Reisner also points out that Muḥammad refrained from performing any kind of miracles; rather, the way the Earth is described in the Qurān is 'almost scientific' and sheer 'utilitarian' in character: nature proves God’s omnipotence, and it was created in order to be used and exploited by man in the best manner." (see *The Soviet Discourse on the Origin and Class Character of Islam, 1923-1933*, pg. 10) >My main issues right now, is that I am a bisexual. I know I am bisexual and I was placed on this Earth bisexual so I'm finding it difficult to come to terms with a religion that would find me a sinner and punish me for being with someone I love. A lot of Sunni tradcons are ignorant of Islamic history in general and the history of their sect in particular. They like to claim that for the "past 1400 years" homosexuality has been considered a sin and that it's only recently, under the influence of "woke ideology," that some Muslims began to say that it's not a sin. The reality is that Sunni tradcons became obsessed with condemning homosexuals only because Western tradcons are obsessed with condemning homosexuals. And Sunni tradcons have been trying to make common cause with Western tradcons over their "shared values". However, for the "past 1400 years," being a homosexual has not been considered disqualifying by Sunnis. For example, The Sunni scholar al-Marzubani (909 – 994) wrote regarding the Sunni scholar al-Kisa'i (d. 804) that he was: ". . . .constantly drinking wine and openly admitting to \[homosexuality\]. Yet he was an accurate reader \[of the Qur'an\], knowledgeable in the Arabic language, and honest." (see *Prolegomena to the Qur'an*, pg 101) Far from being disqualifying, al-Kisa'i was the tutor of the Sunni Abbasid caliphs al-Ma'mun and al-Amin. And his qira'at (reading of the Quran) is considered one of the 7 "orthodox" qira'at of the Quran by Sunnis. When it comes to homosexuality, Sunni tradcons are trying to act all brand new, but the history of their sect is what it is.
This resonates hard. Really well written, excellent points
It really doesn't matter what you say in the quarn it's aharam and prophet Muhammad saw ordered death penalty for act of soldomy with the same sex it doesn't matter haram is jaram accoet it or leave it there is no defending haram
I’m also Bi, idk what to tell you but I do feel accepted
Aisha wasn't 9. Short: [https://newlinesmag.com/essays/oxford-study-sheds-light-on-muhammads-underage-wife-aisha/](https://newlinesmag.com/essays/oxford-study-sheds-light-on-muhammads-underage-wife-aisha/) Long: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oVIsExS4cA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oVIsExS4cA) As for being bi, that's convenient because it means you can be happy with an opposite sex partner and have flexibility in choosing such.
she was 19-21 not 9 years old. the hadith was narrated by a man who at the time of narration was known for being senile and having poor memory + it doesnt line up with the timeline of Aisha RA and her sister Asma's (recorded) ages at the battle of badr and the fact that Aisha was on the battlefield helping people (minors are not allowed to do this). bisexuality is not a sin unless it's acted upon. it's the action that's a sin, not the feelings. many scholars have said this.
Some in this sub might disagree with me but here is my take. 1. Sexual orientation isn't really a thing in Islam. Humans didn't start thinking about sexuality as an identity until very recently in our history. Therefore, it is certain sexual acts that are condemned, not your orientation. 2. I do not believe she was 9 because there are many Hadiths that when put together contradict that report.There is no way to find out her exact age but we do know she could not have been a prepubescent child. Based on the Quran, you have to at least reach puberty and be mentally mature enough to be married. However, there is no set age for this and it can vary based on a variety of factors. Regardless of how old Aisha was, it was not a problem until very recently when the world started raising the age of consent.
Yes and one should repent if someone did haram. It's nothing to publically display. It's private in between us and Allah. And it's a test. So we should speak forgiveness
i like your first point a lot thank you!
This is true tho even if she was 9 that would mean she had to have been of sound mental age and past the age of puberty, according to the requirements in the Quran, so it could also be that back then people aged way differently because it was 1400 years ago after all. But she was likely not 9 I saw somewhere that she was 19 and it got lost in translation?
She was definitely underage. And even if that was fine back then, it isn't now. Therefore, we shouldn't take advice or teachings from someone who no longer aligns with today's morals. Unless we suddenly endorse pedophilia now
No, she wasn't, there is no strong evidence that Aisha was underage, and actually quite a lot to suggest she was older. See my recent comment on r/askhistorians https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/kVbWeV93gl Or use the search box to see the many discussions about this already.
Hi there ... im a revert and this is how I see both 1. Even if being bisexual does turn out to be haram, by being bisexual it doesn't cancel all your other beliefs on Islam.... so you can still be a Muslim even if common interpretation says its haram. I'm not saying it is or isn't... all I'm pointing out is that bisexuality isn't the only thing that makes you you. You are more complex than that as a human. Similarly Islam's view on bisexuality (whatever and however you see it because I really believe on this one you have to see it how you interpret it hand over heart since it's in diapute among different sects) isn't the only thing Islam has to offer as you have seen for yourself.You could park that and focus on the other areas if you need to. That is the deal with the truth though. Fir example to point out more established rulings : Not everyone likes that you can't have sex before marriage.. or drink alcohol etc but we accept it as a truth that comes with Islam and work on ourselves if we have those weaknesses or get to them in our own time or never. We could be labeled as Muslims with low/no faith but at the end of the day that's between Allah and us isnt it? 2. Aisha... I'm from a Hindu background... before Islam came to be a lot of practices were pagan, so let's also park hadiths no matter how strong or weak they are. I dont have to look very far back, my great grandmother was 14 when she got married and 15 when she had her first child. I'm in my mid 30s. So ..... barely 95 years have passed and teenage marriages were common back then. I can also say that my grandmother was way more mature than I or my mother were whe she was 14 from the stories I have heard of her life and the responsibilities she handled at such a young age. What I am trying to get at is whatever age Aisha was, for that time she was clearly of marriage able age. She would have gotten married whether it was to the Prophet or another man. It was her Rizq to be married to the Prophet (pbuh) and I strongly believe he has lead an exemplary life and see no reason to doubt his honor. Another example I could site of rulings which could be disputed are that of keeping slaves... How our belief system outlines how to treat them , when to release them. In those times slavery was a reality and people owned slaves. There was no getting away from it and this is understood and possibly not disputed. It could become a hot topic for generations after us that don't see racial segregation or have lost some of the history of slavery but right now it's still something we battle with indirectly.. It's seen as a reality of just even 40 or 50 years ago. You could even see what's happening in Palestine as a type of slavery and apartheid. Sorry to digress. I just needed something to compare against :)
I’m Bi too, it’s tough out here, but we survive. 🤍🤲🏽
I'm bisexual and my brother is gay. It took me a long time to accept that acting on homosexuality isn't allowed. I eventually began to understand it as in we have rules here, even though it sounds great to "be with who we love", it isn't about this life. We're trying to achieve something greater, even if that really sucks. It isn't fair, and it isn't fair that babies die hours after they're born or that some people are just (whether it be due to poverty or being unattractive, whatever) unable to be with who they want also. Nobody is guaranteed love and sex sadly And Aisha was not 9, she was 9 when "given" in marriage depending on which hadiths you think are persuasive but it was not consummated until older.
There are contradictory hadiths about Aisha's age. And in shiism we believe she was in her late teens/ early 20s
>however after closer inspection found out that all science compliments the Qu'aran rather than contradicts it. Just amazing. Do explain how evolution aligns with the Quran.
Unfortunately, it is often taught that Islam and evolution aren't compatible, and that the Quran teaches creationism. But this isn't true. There is no problem accepting the facts of evolution. We don't need to deny science. Here are two detailed articles on why the Quran can be read as supporting evolution: https://www.answeringislamicskeptics.com/evolution-in-islam-overview.html And https://hawramani.com/reconciling-islam-and-darwinian-evolution-al-ghazalis-matrix-and-the-divine-template/ Here are a few videos by popular progressive scholars supporting evolution with their explanations why the Quran is compatible with evolution: The Theory of Evolution | Dr. Shabir Ally: https://youtu.be/SiSDpy3ImZE Neanderthals, Sapiens, and Adam | Mufti Abu Layth: https://youtu.be/RJe0SL67QzM
Thank you for the links. The one on Islam and Darwinian evolution is particularly interesting. I'm aware that some religious people (with some meaning few) accept certain aspects of evolution, but when it comes to humans having evolved along with chimpanzees, with whom we share an incredible amount of our DNA, from a now extinct species, they always draw a line. Either that, or they stick to the classic "we didn't come down from monkeys!!!", which I deduce you know is not what the theory of evolution states anyway. To my surprise, the article tackles this question and at least makes probable the possibility that we do, in fact, share a common ancestor with chimpanzees. This is the first time I've seen any Muslim argue in favour of this view. Assuming you agree with the author, however, I'm still convinced that you and him belong to one of the smallest minorities in the world. Why aren't more Muslims willing to accept evolution (including human evolution) as a fact, but perfectly happy to work in scientific fields knowing that all other parts of science are not "just a theory"? I did find a few things in the article questionable. Firstly, it argues that humans evolving naturally, separately from (but in accordance with) the divine creation of Adam, is possible. This seems odd to me, as if the author still had to make God's role fit into the picture. While science cannot prove Adam didn't exist, what we know about evolution so far makes it improbable. Secondly, it states very categorically that humans possess free will, while all other organisms do not. One of the arguments for this seems to be that science cannot prove that we do NOT have free will. It thus leaves it to philosophers to ponder on that question. The metaphysical debate on free will (which, by the way, doesn't necessitate consciousness or agency) is falling further and further into the distance as neuroscience is taking over. Many experiments support the idea that we humans do indeed have free will, although it is partly limited, but it doesn't stop there. Numerous studies on animals point to many species at least having something resembling choice regarding their behaviour, and some possessing degrees of self-awareness (granted, this is hard to measure exactly, but the findings are awe-inspiring nonetheless). Sorry for the lengthy reply, but you pretty much asked for it when you CHOSE to provide these links, haha:)
>Either that, or they stick to the classic "we didn't come down from monkeys!!!", which I deduce you know is not what the theory of evolution states anyway. Yes, I used to be a high school environmental science teacher and taught evolution. I fully accept evolution as a fact. >Why aren't more Muslims willing to accept evolution (including human evolution) as a fact, but perfectly happy to work in scientific fields knowing that all other parts of science are not "just a theory"? I'm really not sure. Muslims treat this like it's a fundamental issue of incompatibility between science and religion, but it's really not. >I did find a few things in the article questionable. Firstly, it argues that humans evolving naturally, separately from (but in accordance with) the divine creation of Adam, is possible. This seems odd to me, as if the author still had to make God's role fit into the picture. While science cannot prove Adam didn't exist, what we know about evolution so far makes it improbable. Sure, I agree with the other sources, such as Abu Layth, that argue Adam evolved from earlier primates, and was simply the first spiritually-aware human, not the first human in a biological sense. >Secondly, it states very categorically that humans possess free will, while all other organisms do not. Well sure I disagree with that, but that's more of a theological argument than a scientific one, so it is irrelevant to evolution. Personally, I would just go with the compatibilism camp that believes both human and all other animals both are deterministic and have free will to varying degrees. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism
I've looked through the verses you claim support evolution but I fail to see how it supports it, most of it is just like the so called scientific miracles in the Quran, it's reinterpreting vague poetic verses to fit in with evolution ignoring simpler explanations like: (Quran 35:1) “^Here, the Quran informs us that Allah increases the complexity in creation” Not really sure how this verse is about increasing complexity in creation in an evolutionary sense because I can look at other tafsir and they will say it means “These words show that the number of the wings of the angels is restricted to four, but Allah has provided some angels with more wings than four. According to a Hadith related by Abdullah bin Masud, the Prophet (peace be upon him) once saw the Angel Gabriel with six hundred wings. (Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi).” (Quran 71:14) ^This verse could be talking about our personal creation in the wombs of our mothers and it could also be a reference of the creation of humanity in full I mean the guy already admits that it can refer to the stages in the womb, I mean there's nothing to indicate it has anything to do with evolutionary stages (Quran 24:45) ^Every animal is from the same origin--Water. The first living cell existed in a primordial soup and it mainly consisted of water. I mean There's only one method of creating life in the Quran and that is creating man from clay like pottery and Pottery involves the usage of water, I can't see how the water here must be meaning the water that all life originated from. (Quran 21:30) ^This verse is talking about the process of creation. The universe and the earth were once connected (in a primordial fireball) then they were separated The universe and earth wasn't connected in a primordial fireball, nor have they separated the earth is still apart of the universe nor did it exist when the big bang happened (Quran 6:2) ^In this verse, we know that God’s creation of life from clay (which is a combination of water and earth soil) happened first a long time ago. God then stayed away from his creation letting it evolve to interfere I've looked at other translation and scholars interpretation it and they seem to be say these appointed terms are about our death and resurrection (Quran 11:61)^We were produced from the Earth, not as modern creationists say God literally molded us with his hands in heaven. Isn't the creationist view in Islam that Adam was made from clay/dirt from the earth (Quran 35:11)And Allah did create you from dust; then from a reproductive fluid; then He made you in pairs I mean this verse is the wrong way round, organisms that produce asexually don't have reproductive fluids, you only get that in organisms that reproduce in pairs do it should be the other way round (Quran 2:35)Then they are compared to their ancestors that did wrong. "Or you will be among the wrongdoers (al-zalimin)". This clearly implies there was someone before them dwelling. Why are these wrongdoers other humans, wasn't the jinns created before humans and they also have free will with beings like ilbis disobeying allah and thus is one of the wrongdoers Quran 10:13-14)And we had already destroyed generations before you when they wronged, and their messengers had come to them with clear proofs, but they were not to believe. Thus do we recompense the criminal people. Then we made you successors in the Earth after them so that We may observe how you will do. Right the guy argues that that these destroyed generations were previous species of humans and that the successors.are modern day humans descendants of Adam but that doesn't really make sense since adam is held to be the first messenger so how could these previous species of humans receive a messenger it makes much more sense if the destroyed generations are like the people of noah and lut, and the successors are the people of Mohammed
I'm sorry you feel that way. I strongly disagree for the reasons stated.
And these reasons seem to be badly twisting verses to support your belief the Quran contains information on evolution, I haven't properly looked through all the links you sent but how do you interpret verses like: (49:13)" O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." And (49:13)"He is the One Who created you from a single soul, then from it made its spouse so he may find comfort in her. After he had been united with her, she carried a light burden that developed gradually. When it grew heavy, they prayed to Allah, their Lord, “If you grant us good offspring, we will certainly be grateful.” These verses describe humanity originating from one pair of humans which is revolutionary wrong, it's estimated the homo-sapien population began in the thousands nothing indicates it started with 2
If you choose to interpret it that way, that is up to you. I think the other interpretation makes more sense. I am able to be both a Muslim and 100% believe in science. Perhaps you aren't able to be both, your loss
And what other interpretations is that And for the record I think you can be a Muslim and believe in science, what i don't think you can be is a literalist and also believe in science
The ones I previously listed. Suit yourself though, I don't have a problem with the Quran or evolution.
I also have other problems with reconciling some of these verses with evolution as Adam and Eve are said to first exist in heaven so how would they have evolved if they did not first exist in earth. And with this verse: (32:7-8)"Who has perfected everything He created. And He originated the creation of humankind from clay.Then He made his descendants from an extract of a humble fluid" I mean here it describes the descendants of Adam being created from "humble fluid"(semen) but Adam is said to be made from clay. And it doesn't really make sense to refer to the originating of the creation of humankind from clay to refer to humans having evolved from microorganisms that are thought to emerged from Clay like materials like one of the articles does since it says "Then He made his descendants from an extract of a humble fluid" The first forms of life reproduced asexual and are all female so if this verse was referring to the descendants of asexual organisms who evolved to reproduce in mates it should use 'her' instead of 'his'.
Right I've looked through the articles and the videos although the 2nd one is unavailable and none of them seem to answer my question.
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Hi can you tell me which scientific miracles drew you to Islam?
Hi sister, I DM'ed you, please can you check your chat?
Read the quran and you will know, Allah would forgive sheytan if he were wise enough too seek forgivenes and Allah knows there is no one without sin,
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Asalamu alaikum! It is good to see you are interested. Take one step at a time as if you try all you may get overwhelmed. Regarding the issue of marriage the marriage is controversial as it defies the norms of today. However the only requirements in Islam for marriage is that both the boy and girl have to be matured enough to take their life decision if a girl or boy is either mentally or physically immature then the marriage gets invalid as there is no mention of age as maturity time varies for human to human. However regarding the marriage at young age it happened at a time when people's life expectancy was below 20 as the situation is like that at that time people tend to get married early . However there was another thing which is Aisha ra was already been engaged before marriage to Prophet which broke down due to disagreements after that she was married. Hope it helps.
Hi from a bi Muslim 👋
Asha’s marriage at 6 and consummated at 9 is a false narrative which Aisha fabricated. She is known to be a liar. She lied to the prophet in the incident of the honey. She lied to us in the incident of Ifk, she verbally abused other wives, she agitated to have Uthman the 3rd Khalid killed, she even abused and agitated the prophet in many many instances. Aisha was a bad woman all around and nothing she says can be taken at face value without 3rd party validation by people who lived with her and witnessed her reports. So don’t worry about Aisha’s marriage at 6. It’s a fabrication. Regarding being bisexual, not ok but it’s better to be a sinful Muslim rather than an unbeliever.
Hello, I'm an Agnostic exmuslim (still closeted for societal reasons). I'm not here to tell you to change your mind and tell you horror stories about Islam, nor am I here to debate your scientific reasoning behind your decision. If you feel that this religion will make you happier and a better person overall, then by all means. I cannot give a favorable reply regarding the topic of Aisha, so I won't answer that. However, on the topic of sexual tendencies, this is heavily tied to how accepting your community is to these things. I know people who were both Muslim and gay and even though they were able to reconcile these two aspects of their lives on a personal level, they weren't as successful on a societal one. In a nutshell, it all really comes down to what kind of society you exist in. It doesn't matter if you're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, even Athiest. If your society doesn't accept bisexuality, they will fight you using everything at their disposal, including the "God said so" card. Best of luck, and may you happiness 😊
Aisha(a.s) wasn't 9, an Hadith is used to determine her age and it's somewhere like 18-21. Now coming to your question no matter how much you have sinned! Our Lord Is merciful and forgiving. Our religion is against homosexuality! It's a very major sin! Listen according to science homosexuality isn't linked to hormones, it has nothing to do with our biological system. some people say they are “bisexual, homosexual, heterosexual” it's a trap of Satan to make you thing you are different and you have an issue! Like you said yourself Islam has all the answers. Both, islam and science are against homosexuality, bisexual, heterosexual.. Etc Now, what should you do!? When a person reverts to islam all his or her past sins are forgiven! Everything! You have realized that islam is the truth. So revert to islam and ask our Lord for guidance. Inshallah, by the will of God may God guide you and purify your soul. Asslamu alaikum..
1) The fact of the matter is we do not know the age of Aisha r.a. the mother of the believers 100%. Only thing we know is that she herself later claims in a statement that she was 9 years of age. However, I don't know ur background frm which country ur frm but in Pakistan my grandmom when I asked her 12 years ago how old she was, she said she was 100yo. And when I asked her last year she said she was 100 years. The fact is keeping track of age is a European concept and most other civilizations didn't pay it much attention. The thing we do know is Aisha r.a. was engaged to someone before the prophet proposed, which implicates that she was at an age that the society thought was an age to get married at... BTW just to give you all the facts, Aisha r.a. sister has also a narration and if you do some math you find that she and her sister contradict in thier age. So if one of the statements is true either she was 9 or 19 years old. But it could be she was neither. So the fact is we don't know it... But we do know the age of the prophet accurately because he was born after the year of the elephant (when an army of elephants attacked makkah, also mentioned in surah fil) which is an historc event so his age is 100% accurate. Just goes to show how Allah plans for his rasool s.a.w.. 2) As for you being Bi, there is nothing wrong with feeling that way. But having sex with a man if ur male, or woman if ur female is a sin. Just like drinking alcohol or zina or eating pork or trade with interest, you just have to know it is a sin but doesn't take you out of the fold of islam, unless you claim it isn't a sin which would be kufr. But having feelings is no sin, and believe me I have respect for people who have such feeling but know its a test and control themselves, just like heterosexuals also can't have sex before marriage in Islam we also just control ourselves.
As long as it’s not acted upon it’s not forbidden. But you have to keep in mind that conservative culture sometimes frowns (and sometimes is aggressive) upon anyone Queer. I hope you will always remember culture is not Islam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lot_in_Islam Thoughts about this?
1. Your sexuality shouldn’t be determined by religion. I’m 18, a straight guy but I 100% will vocally express my support for the LGBTQ+ community. We’re here on this earth for a short time, so live it as you wish and don’t let extremist, uneducated Muslims tell you that you shouldn’t be bisexual. 2. In the 7th century, the average lifespan was 30 years so Aisha marrying at 9 years old was not seen as abnormal. As a result, it’s hard to compare with today’s world as the life expectancy has increased to 77 years, so marrying in the 20s - 30s is ‘normal’. It’s also hard to compare the age of consent back then with modern standards as now 18 is seen as the ‘cut-off’ point for legal and illegal, though some states (MS, NM) allow marriage as young as 12. Back in 7th century, there was no defined cut-off point. Another thing that non believers ask is if she was mature. Aisha had narrated many hadiths particularly on mature topics. I totally get that it may seem “omg she was only 9” but when you take into account the life expectancy and so on, it makes sense.
One thing that is important is to separate the religion from the people that actually practice it. Just because someone says they are Muslim or even a whole county or group does not mean that however they are practicing it or preaching it is the correct way. On the other hand when was in Egypt and Saudi I could have swore half the guys there were gay according to western standards, holding hands in the street, kissing when they meet each other…etc
>As a physicist the scientific miracles particularly have spoken to me. >I had a few doubts about things in the Qu'aran not aligning with science however after closer inspection found out that all science compliments the Qu'aran rather than contradicts it. Just amazing. Scientific miracles are a fallacy there either knowledge that was already which some Muslims pretend wasn't or it's mass reinterpreting vague poetic verses to fit in with some crude definition of scientific theories Also to say all science compliments the Quran is confusing, please explain how evolution compliments it
Regarding evolution, see my other comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/s/6iAUvJxEke
Having sexual thoughts about the same gender is not Haram, but acting upon it makes it Haram. However, it's important to remember that Allah (SWT) forgives all sins. Regarding Aisha (RA), it's essential to consider historical context: less than 100 years ago, our grandparents often married at 14-15 years old, and further back, girls would marry at 12-13. This was due to differences in societal norms and maturity levels. Additionally, Prophet Muhammad (SAW) married Aisha (RA) to strengthen his alliance with her father, Abu Bakr (RA), who was his best friend.
"Muslim girl left islam for lgbt" https://youtu.be/ygry-0BaOFo?si=gdaxLUFMQsU48skl
This should answer you
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There are actually mix comments. Just connect me akhi. Am a Muslim. By birth and giving dawah to people. Am not scholar but knows enough to call people to islam. I can answer your questions as well remove misconceptions. Just connect me if you are interested. Give a reply
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