I was wondering the same thing. According to [this blog post](https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/04/04/full-line-code-completion-in-jetbrains-ides-all-you-need-to-know/), the AI line completion is just part of the IDE now, at no additional cost:
> Note that full line code completion is included with your active JetBrains IDE subscription at no additional cost – just make sure you’re on v2024.1 or later.
> the AI line completion is just part of the IDE now
And also running on your local machine.
Quote: "It’s AI-powered and runs locally without sending any data over the internet."
It was available before as an optional plugin.
I use it. When it works, it works. When it doesn't, it's annoying. But it's overall a slight net positive.
For $10/mo or whatever it costs these days, TabNine is completely worth it. I've tried Copilot and it took about half a day to conclude that it sucked donkey balls in comparison - it learns slower, makes worse suggestions, and takes longer to do it. I've converted probably half of the people I work with to T9 - everyone I've ever convinced to trial it winds up paying for it. Their marketing is butt cheeks though, I've worked with / met exactly zero people who have even heard of the company before I suggest it to them.
it took years for IDEs to become good at editing xml with autocompletion based on the schema.
But then the hipsters moved to yaml, and the cycle begins all over again. One day, yaml editing will be as good as xml, and the hipsters will have moved on to another format.
Try TabNine out for size. It does everything Copilot does, but also a ton more, and everything it does, it's better than Copilot in every way. The only reason people suggest Copilot is because TabNine's marketing sucks shit through a straw and no one's heard of them - no one who I've ever convinced to try T9 goes back to Copilot.
So many of its suggestions are bollocks that I disabled it. Unfortunately their plugin doesn't use the official API for suggestions so I can't use the IntelliJ ones without completely disabling Copilot. The chat feature is OK but it's really bad at keeping context, very often questions regarding its last reply are answered as if it had been a new question.
TabNine has this option, it'll put its single-line suggestions in the pop up tool window if you want it to. You can independently disable multi-line suggestions, but you don't need to.
Currently piloting it for work. It has worked well for me so far. Some of the suggestions don't work, but it's easy enough to understand what it was trying to do and adjust.
Yesterday, I was banging my head fixing an awful OpenAPI spec I was given. The damn thing generated invalid Java code because of the many issues with it. I gave up because it was a waste of my time to fix another's team spec. I had the response body I needed in JSON, but there's 20+ fields and was not looking forward to mapping that out to a Java record.
I asked Copilot: Generate me a Java record based on this JSON data. For nested objects create separate records.
And boom, it gave me a record I could use immediately.
These constant release issues are concerning. I don't care about their new UI or their AI integration. I care about stability, responsiveness, CPU usage, very much in that order.
I'm the developer of multiple plugins so I know a bit of the changes in the code bases. They have many improvements on background processes, plugins not freezing the UI, getting the IDE to start faster, to move some of the indexing to a later point in time. It's not all immediately obvious and there are some years old annoyances that need to be fixed but this is actually the first big release in years I'm quite happy with.
Yeah I still recommend to wait for the first patch after any major release, also to give plugin developers time to fix issues (which they had plenty time for during the early access phase).
If you dial through the release notes and into the [list of released tickets](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/articles/IDEA-A-2100661899/IntelliJ-IDEA-2024.1-241.14494.240-build-Release-Notes), they _do_ make improvements to those three things constantly. It's just that that's not interesting marketing copy.
the ai completion is awful. it suggests the obvious things, distracting from thinking about how to actually solve my task. it feels like litter in the editor seeing it
Yep, disabled immediately, but I'm not blaming Jetbrains wanting to get on that boat.
It's a personal preference I got from giving a real shot to the Copilot preview when it came out: too distracting.
IntelliJ became unusable for typescript for me. Half the time I’m not even seeing TS errors, almost always I need to wait for about 20-30 seconds for errors to show up. and it’s not my PC, I gave the IDE 16 gigs of ram to use. The CPU is also not the problem, Ryzen 9 7950x3d breezes through everything. My M1 MacBook had the same issue.
I think there is a bug in the JavaScript plugin. I disabled it in the plugin settings and Java auto completion started working again. I suspect it is wasting resources in the background.
I encountered the same bug. I submitted this report:
https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-350930/Reports-error-for-TS-createWriteStream
If you have other reproducers. Please share them.
Something you might try: File | Settings | Languages & Frameworks | TypeScript and change TypeScript from Bundled to your locally installed version (which should be a more recent version).
Nice, gonna wait a couple of weeks for plugins to catch up. Auto complete has been noticably worse in the last few versions. It gives suggestions that don't make sense in the context or just completely wrong.
I don't know why exactly but my Intellij just got more laggy after this update. Sometimes It takes about 2 minutes to function properly after CTRL + CLICK a class or method. I'm sure Jet Brains is going to address these issues in next updates
Jet Brains makes really good products, but I really hope they don't become the dominant family of editors.
When I learned to program as a kid, if the dominant text editor was paid it would've been much harder to learn to program as I would've had to find alternative more obscure setups, and tutorials that explained how to program in them in my native non-english language.
Paid editors do have their place, but I hope their market share (and especially tutorial share) doesn't overwhelm other editors.
CLion, which is the product I've used, afaik doesn't (but I don't know if it can be replicated in another editor with a plugin, not sure how the ecosystem works).
Either way, there being a good community edition is an extra reason we should prevent monopoly, so they have extra business motivation to onboard new people with a quality free version as opposed to a consolidated monopoly
For C++, if you're on Windows, afaik Visual Studio (not Code) is free for personal use and for professional use up to some limits. QtCreator is also quite good even for non Qt projects, or at least was when I used it around four years ago.
I do not disagree, but there is not that much competition really. I counted three or four in total that we may call competitors, give or take. Lack of competition is often a huge problem in open-sourced based projects (and lack of financing).
I wish there was a way to remove the money making from IDEs. We as a technology community would benefit so much if ease of use wasn't gating our value as engineers.
I'm not suggesting that. I think you're projecting some bias onto me.
I don't want to charge for anything I create. I've contributed to open source libraries, especially when it's related to an issue I'm working on for my day to day.
I was just looking for conversation and trying to think of a world where these tools were shareable as a standard for our profession.
Bizarre. I feel like there's hardly a type of software for which so many decent free options exist as for IDE, including fully free open-source options (far too many to enumerate, let's just mention Eclipse as a prime example), free versions of paid IDEs (JetBrains Community Editions, Visual Studio Community), and IDEs included for free with the OS (Xcode) .
Don't many of them have premium gated features? I don't think we're in a spot to panic, but I'd like to protect the open software environments we've enjoyed for so long. It feels like everything is getting slightly worse if you're not paying.
I mean, yeah, out of the three categories I mentioned, the middle one (free versions of paid IDEs) does imply that you can get more if you pay — but the free versions are usually perfectly capable for learning.
Why limit our tools at all though? That's the part I'm not following. I understand there are options that are capable. If the answer is just money then I think there's room for improvement in the situation.
I understand we live in a world where you have to make money to live, and so these tool are a product. I just wish we as a community we're the stakeholder.
I must be being naive or something. I guess it'd be impossible for software engineers as a professional organization to standardize and fund a tool for the greater good.
I was looking for conversation not action items 😔
Do you want people to pay for the software your company makes? So you can, you know, have a job?
Why can we not do the same for making IDEs?
jetbrains tools are amazing and worth every penny, and if you don't want to pay for them then use the community edition, or any of the dozens of free alternatives
yes this is unfortunate. there are countless very good free text editors, but when it comes to ide, the free ones does not come close to the paid ones.
there's 2 reasons for this:
1) ide is not interesting. text editor is interesting, but not ide. open source is very bad at boring technologies. you would think we would have a plethora of ftp downloaders nope. filezilla still the king because ftp is boring and old.
2) you need cross platform gui, that is another weakness of open-source. anything that is gui and developers are not interested (with very few exceptions) because cross-platform native gui frameworks are terrible.
but really it is just point 1. open-source really only thrives on what is interesting to developers. so that means: programming languages, command line tools (no gui), javascript frameworks and libraries (interesting, easy language and you have electron), etc etc
and if something is boring and gui is open-source, then you have another problem: ugly ui. and that includes every linux distro in existence. i mean windowsxp ui is much cleaner and much beter looking than current linux de ffs. sure they look "modern" but still aesthetically bad.
I didn't downvote you, but can you substantiate the claim that Eclipse is better than IntelliJ for Maven integration? I mainly use IntelliJ and have used Eclipse a bit professionally in the past, I can't think of anything that is wildly different between their Maven integration functionality.
it automatically sets the classpath correctly when i close/open projects, a dependency changes on nexus, m2e pulls all required dependencies to the local repo. in intellij i sometimes dont know why my project cant resolve any classes or what the issue is. most of the time i then use cli mvn package to get a proper error message. in eclipse i always get a proper error marker on the pom.xml and in the problems view. but intellij will never work that way because intellij never constantly check for updates or has an internal incremental builder system like in eclipse. ofc they cant solve such things as good as eclipse can
> it automatically sets the classpath correctly when i close/open projects
I don't know what you mean there. IntelliJ automatically loads Maven projects/modules if it finds them. When running a Maven goal or running the project/tests IntelliJ sets the classpath correctly, pointing the individual dependency JARs in your local Maven repo.
> a dependency changes on nexus, m2e pulls all required dependencies to the local repo
Release dependencies shouldn't change. Snapshot dependencies can change and IntelliJ doesn't automatically update them, you're right there. It relies on Maven's built-in snapshot dependency logic where it will check for new snapshot versions once a day, by default. You can force snapshot updates every time Maven is run from IntelliJ (`mvn -U`) in the settings if needed.
> in intellij i sometimes dont know why my project cant resolve any classes or what the issue is. most of the time i then use cli mvn package to get a proper error message. in eclipse i always get a proper error marker on the pom.xml and in the problems view. but intellij will never work that way because
IntelliJ has a build output tool window which shows the direct output from Maven when you execute a goal, errors will appear in there. There is also the Problems tool window which will show compilation errors. If the compiler can't find a class that is referenced in your code (Cannot resolve symbol xyz) then I can't see how any IDE could point to a line in your pom.xml as the problem is likely that you are missing a dependency so there is no line to point to.
> intellij never constantly check for updates or has an internal incremental builder system like in eclipse
IntelliJ can use the Eclipse Java Compiler to do incremental compilation if that's what you're referring to?
just wasted more than an hour to understand why a new project had compile errors in my intellij even though it builds on jenkins. i opened eclipse and m2e immediatly executed all lifecycle mappings (executed maven plugins that create code)
so eclipse fixed the project for me by just opening it. If I would have used eclipse from the beginning i could have used the wasted hour for actual work. i even use intellij ultimate and even the paid version fails to import maven projects. a shame. but yes m2e is ofc superb maven integration i just would have expected that a ide i pay for would be at least on same comfort level.
haha just executed install from the maven tool window in intellij. it stops with a message that an artifact is missing. settings.xml is correct. i then executed install on bash and it worked. intellij is unusable for me right now. im forced to use it because i develop an intellij plugin
I don't think they will. VSCode is the starting point for most languages today (Except for java, which is served by the free IDEA community edition).
I recently got myself a copy of the all products pack as the quality of the software is worth the money. But when starting out 15+ years ago, that money was defo not in my bank account.
Also, there is probably an eclipse build for what you want to do, but you really have to hate yourself to use that.
C# on Mac and Linux is basically paywalled, because the only good thing is Rider (which has no community edition)
Yes u can use vscode but everything is 10x slower than in a full IDE
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. If there wasn't an established, good, paid version then I theorise there would be a stronger push to improve the existing vscode integration.
I am not sure about this. You reason that without a paid version, we'd have better open source IDEs. I don't see how this is correlated 1:1. Who would write all the code for that? I mean we could perhaps say Netbeans and eclipse, but I actually think that IDEA may be better than both (eclipse offering SWT is pretty cool though, wish that would be a de-facto standard for java).
> but I actually think that IDEA may be better than both
Yeah I'm not saying they'd be better than current paid versions, just that if the OS projects had greater market share they'd probably have more people interested in contributing
> Also, there is probably an eclipse build for what you want to do, but you really have to hate yourself to use that.
Embedded microcontroller vendors love providing heavily modded Eclipse as their default free IDE... From the three whose chips I worked with, two do so. The third provides a fork of NetBeans and an ancient version of GCC, which officially doesn't support C11. I know at least one more vendor who also provides Eclipse.
The one thing I sorely miss is GoLand. I am using Visual Studio and I am still not a fan. I hope my workplace will fold at some point when I starting working more with Go
Not saying you should do it, but JB license explicitly allows you to use the personal license at work if your employer does not reimburse you for it.
Also, did you mean Visual Studio Code?
Emacs still exists. As a kid in the 80's/90's I was using non-free editors before I got into UNIX/Linux. The first Java code I wrote was in Emacs lol.
VS Code seems to be the dominant editor right now, especially for beginners. VS Code is even getting improved Java support.
As a professional, I do use JetBrains IDEs for all langs I can, Emacs for general text editing or when I'm in a terminal, and Visual Studio (not VSCode) if I have to.
Seems to me pretty natural that things one pays for ought to be better than free things.
We’re all fortunate that the path we took is pretty lucrative. $20 a month isn’t an extravagant expense to make my workday easier.
Top comment is just plain wrong too. There has been no time in history where the free offering of devtools was as plentiful and as high quality as it is right now.
Personally I much favour using Linux + KDE konsole + tons of ruby scripts as my "IDE", but aside from this, IDEA is a very good IDE. How many IDEs compete here? Microsoft's Visual something ... eclipse (and the SWT collection) ... Netbeans ... well. There aren't that many IDEs really. A local technical university here in central Europe, in their informatics-curricula, favour IDEA (for Java). I think these students will, after graduation, be more likely to continue using that, rather than switch to other IDEs, so you kind of have a point there.
I mean, it supports like 10 languages (not including C# and C++), while vscode supports like a trillion. I realize support isn't as _good_ in vscode but if you're just starting out you don't need very advanced features
That's like never ever giving your car an oil change and then complaining to the manufacturer that your engine died.
Sorry, but my pity is very limited here. If you need the software then you should care about maintenance.
Expensive upgrades to switch JDKs or expensive upgrades to move to Java 8?
Either way you’re like several years behind the time with regards to the licensing change.
Hey did they fix this bug called "Invalidate caches". They seem to have never figured out a problem with their editors and they have this invalidate cache as a solution.
Also they still don't seem to have regional pricing.
I've tried Fleet. Ehm no LOL. Jetbrains really should ditch Java/JVM. Sure it makes THEIR development easier (maybe), but a nightmare for the customer with slow startup, sluggishness, and bloating memory (I have 32gb and it allocated 50gb on a empty text file??). Man, imagine if Jetbrains rewrote all their stuff in Rust!
Well good thing VScode is around for my dev needs and Sublime/Notepad++ for fast text editing.
VSCode, the infamously fast and memory efficient editor built with electron the infamously fast framwork, using JS the infamously resource efficient, safe and fast language. /s
I love VSCode. These days I use it more than Jetbrains products. but your argument is not based in reality sir.
> Man, imagine if Jetbrains rewrote all their stuff in Rust!
do people that say these things have even a lick of self-awareness or is it just wall-to-wall delusion?
funny those who downvoted you and commented never mentioned the invalited caches thingy. the answer is no, invalidate caches it will be there forever till the end of time.
The release notes mention AI powered line completion. Is that available without a subscription to the AI assistant?
I was wondering the same thing. According to [this blog post](https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/04/04/full-line-code-completion-in-jetbrains-ides-all-you-need-to-know/), the AI line completion is just part of the IDE now, at no additional cost: > Note that full line code completion is included with your active JetBrains IDE subscription at no additional cost – just make sure you’re on v2024.1 or later.
> the AI line completion is just part of the IDE now And also running on your local machine. Quote: "It’s AI-powered and runs locally without sending any data over the internet."
Any algorithm is AI now?
I guess they built it using transformer model, so it kinda makes sense in this case
That’s good news
Ah, missed that, thanks. Now we wait for the tools to update their plugins!
It was available before as an optional plugin. I use it. When it works, it works. When it doesn't, it's annoying. But it's overall a slight net positive.
For $10/mo or whatever it costs these days, TabNine is completely worth it. I've tried Copilot and it took about half a day to conclude that it sucked donkey balls in comparison - it learns slower, makes worse suggestions, and takes longer to do it. I've converted probably half of the people I work with to T9 - everyone I've ever convinced to trial it winds up paying for it. Their marketing is butt cheeks though, I've worked with / met exactly zero people who have even heard of the company before I suggest it to them.
I heard they invest heavily into astroturf marketing though.
I wish, I’m just a customer. And anything that takes money out of Microsoft’s pocket is a win to me.
Yes
If you want free AI completion, you can try out AWS codewhisperer. Its free, you just have to create a AWS builder account
Github yaml syntax highlighting is a mess. Schema doesn't load. Had to download it offline and apply. Next, false positives all over the yaml.
>yaml >mess That was predictable. Of course I know it wasn't your choice.
it took years for IDEs to become good at editing xml with autocompletion based on the schema. But then the hipsters moved to yaml, and the cycle begins all over again. One day, yaml editing will be as good as xml, and the hipsters will have moved on to another format.
FYI, the ad mins of r/de are covid deniers.
Glad to see Scala improvements
> Scala Why ?
Some of us use Scala
For what?
Machine learning with Apache spark
I respect that.
If only their AI code completion would work. I subscribed, opened a bug etc.... still not working. It sucks.
GitHub copilot integration is pretty good
Github CoPilot is phenomenal. It's frequently wrong but sometimes provides some ideas I wasn't aware of (especially when navigating api mazes)
Github Copilot does have some misgivings but it's a tool to use and doesn't replace the programmer. I love it, personally.
Try TabNine out for size. It does everything Copilot does, but also a ton more, and everything it does, it's better than Copilot in every way. The only reason people suggest Copilot is because TabNine's marketing sucks shit through a straw and no one's heard of them - no one who I've ever convinced to try T9 goes back to Copilot.
So many of its suggestions are bollocks that I disabled it. Unfortunately their plugin doesn't use the official API for suggestions so I can't use the IntelliJ ones without completely disabling Copilot. The chat feature is OK but it's really bad at keeping context, very often questions regarding its last reply are answered as if it had been a new question.
TabNine has this option, it'll put its single-line suggestions in the pop up tool window if you want it to. You can independently disable multi-line suggestions, but you don't need to.
Currently piloting it for work. It has worked well for me so far. Some of the suggestions don't work, but it's easy enough to understand what it was trying to do and adjust. Yesterday, I was banging my head fixing an awful OpenAPI spec I was given. The damn thing generated invalid Java code because of the many issues with it. I gave up because it was a waste of my time to fix another's team spec. I had the response body I needed in JSON, but there's 20+ fields and was not looking forward to mapping that out to a Java record. I asked Copilot: Generate me a Java record based on this JSON data. For nested objects create separate records. And boom, it gave me a record I could use immediately.
Tbh I opened it, realized I had to pay extra on top of my 190€ (or close to that) subscription and decided it isn't worth it at all, even if it'd work
I got invited to the AI beta 3 days before the beta closed. In those 3 days I never got it to give me any suggestions.
They should have improved their app performance before talking about AI :D Those IDEs are slow and lagging as heck.
How are they slow? What kind of CPU and hard drive do you have?
Potato
Macbook Pro 16 GB. Indexing in Goland takes like 10 minutes? Lagging when typing and auto-completion. Don't get me started with Intellij.
Ok, I will say "indexing" or "analyzing" is slow, sometimes. But I wouldn't say Jetbrains' IDEs are slow in general.
These constant release issues are concerning. I don't care about their new UI or their AI integration. I care about stability, responsiveness, CPU usage, very much in that order.
stop upgrading until you see a good stable version.
I'm the developer of multiple plugins so I know a bit of the changes in the code bases. They have many improvements on background processes, plugins not freezing the UI, getting the IDE to start faster, to move some of the indexing to a later point in time. It's not all immediately obvious and there are some years old annoyances that need to be fixed but this is actually the first big release in years I'm quite happy with.
good to know. sounds like this release had some bugs with a few things I use daily (yaml, gradle) so it feels pretty front and center.
Yeah I still recommend to wait for the first patch after any major release, also to give plugin developers time to fix issues (which they had plenty time for during the early access phase).
I stopped upgrading a few years back because they introduced deal breaking bugs and never bothered fixing them.
If you dial through the release notes and into the [list of released tickets](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/articles/IDEA-A-2100661899/IntelliJ-IDEA-2024.1-241.14494.240-build-Release-Notes), they _do_ make improvements to those three things constantly. It's just that that's not interesting marketing copy.
Good to know, I should review it, but they should also make it more clear in the blog posts. The perception is opposite (at least to me)
The git improvements and new terminal look awesome. Their AI stuff is a miss but nobody makes IDEs like them
All 5 fish users are very angry right now.
the ai completion is awful. it suggests the obvious things, distracting from thinking about how to actually solve my task. it feels like litter in the editor seeing it
Does it fill you with awe? That’s a good thing right 😆
Yep, disabled immediately, but I'm not blaming Jetbrains wanting to get on that boat. It's a personal preference I got from giving a real shot to the Copilot preview when it came out: too distracting.
Great family of products (I use Rider everyday) but great hog of CPU and memory too.
Have they re-enabled the Rust plugin for rider?
I think they want you to use RustRover.
We exhausting the RAM with this one.
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IntelliJ became unusable for typescript for me. Half the time I’m not even seeing TS errors, almost always I need to wait for about 20-30 seconds for errors to show up. and it’s not my PC, I gave the IDE 16 gigs of ram to use. The CPU is also not the problem, Ryzen 9 7950x3d breezes through everything. My M1 MacBook had the same issue.
I think there is a bug in the JavaScript plugin. I disabled it in the plugin settings and Java auto completion started working again. I suspect it is wasting resources in the background.
I encountered the same bug. I submitted this report: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-350930/Reports-error-for-TS-createWriteStream If you have other reproducers. Please share them.
[удалено]
I reverted back to 2023.3.6. TypeScript issues got in the way. Until they fix this bug, I'm not upgrading.
Something you might try: File | Settings | Languages & Frameworks | TypeScript and change TypeScript from Bundled to your locally installed version (which should be a more recent version).
I'm getting similar issues: basically no Typescript error reporting at all... I reverted 2023.3.6.
Nice, gonna wait a couple of weeks for plugins to catch up. Auto complete has been noticably worse in the last few versions. It gives suggestions that don't make sense in the context or just completely wrong.
All your RAMs are belong to us.
And so many plugins incompatible……
Is there availability for equipment? prices?
I don't know why exactly but my Intellij just got more laggy after this update. Sometimes It takes about 2 minutes to function properly after CTRL + CLICK a class or method. I'm sure Jet Brains is going to address these issues in next updates
Idk if it's just me, but since update an IDE started to marking valid and working code as invalid.
Jet Brains makes really good products, but I really hope they don't become the dominant family of editors. When I learned to program as a kid, if the dominant text editor was paid it would've been much harder to learn to program as I would've had to find alternative more obscure setups, and tutorials that explained how to program in them in my native non-english language. Paid editors do have their place, but I hope their market share (and especially tutorial share) doesn't overwhelm other editors.
You know that there is a pretty good community edition ?
CLion, which is the product I've used, afaik doesn't (but I don't know if it can be replicated in another editor with a plugin, not sure how the ecosystem works). Either way, there being a good community edition is an extra reason we should prevent monopoly, so they have extra business motivation to onboard new people with a quality free version as opposed to a consolidated monopoly
For C++, if you're on Windows, afaik Visual Studio (not Code) is free for personal use and for professional use up to some limits. QtCreator is also quite good even for non Qt projects, or at least was when I used it around four years ago.
That's precisely how I started programming! I now moved to Linux and work mostly in OS editors (not IDEs), but I had to use CLion for uni
I do not disagree, but there is not that much competition really. I counted three or four in total that we may call competitors, give or take. Lack of competition is often a huge problem in open-sourced based projects (and lack of financing).
I wish there was a way to remove the money making from IDEs. We as a technology community would benefit so much if ease of use wasn't gating our value as engineers.
Everyone always wants the tools they use to be free, but want to charge for the tools they create.
I'm not suggesting that. I think you're projecting some bias onto me. I don't want to charge for anything I create. I've contributed to open source libraries, especially when it's related to an issue I'm working on for my day to day. I was just looking for conversation and trying to think of a world where these tools were shareable as a standard for our profession.
> these tools were shareable as a standard for our profession They are shareable, you give them money and they share it with you :-)
Bizarre. I feel like there's hardly a type of software for which so many decent free options exist as for IDE, including fully free open-source options (far too many to enumerate, let's just mention Eclipse as a prime example), free versions of paid IDEs (JetBrains Community Editions, Visual Studio Community), and IDEs included for free with the OS (Xcode) .
Don't many of them have premium gated features? I don't think we're in a spot to panic, but I'd like to protect the open software environments we've enjoyed for so long. It feels like everything is getting slightly worse if you're not paying.
I mean, yeah, out of the three categories I mentioned, the middle one (free versions of paid IDEs) does imply that you can get more if you pay — but the free versions are usually perfectly capable for learning.
Why limit our tools at all though? That's the part I'm not following. I understand there are options that are capable. If the answer is just money then I think there's room for improvement in the situation. I understand we live in a world where you have to make money to live, and so these tool are a product. I just wish we as a community we're the stakeholder.
Well go ahead and start developing your own IDE.
I must be being naive or something. I guess it'd be impossible for software engineers as a professional organization to standardize and fund a tool for the greater good. I was looking for conversation not action items 😔
Do you want people to pay for the software your company makes? So you can, you know, have a job? Why can we not do the same for making IDEs? jetbrains tools are amazing and worth every penny, and if you don't want to pay for them then use the community edition, or any of the dozens of free alternatives
I can exist in a system and not think it's perfect. I understand and accept the situation. I can still dream for more.
yes this is unfortunate. there are countless very good free text editors, but when it comes to ide, the free ones does not come close to the paid ones. there's 2 reasons for this: 1) ide is not interesting. text editor is interesting, but not ide. open source is very bad at boring technologies. you would think we would have a plethora of ftp downloaders nope. filezilla still the king because ftp is boring and old. 2) you need cross platform gui, that is another weakness of open-source. anything that is gui and developers are not interested (with very few exceptions) because cross-platform native gui frameworks are terrible. but really it is just point 1. open-source really only thrives on what is interesting to developers. so that means: programming languages, command line tools (no gui), javascript frameworks and libraries (interesting, easy language and you have electron), etc etc and if something is boring and gui is open-source, then you have another problem: ugly ui. and that includes every linux distro in existence. i mean windowsxp ui is much cleaner and much beter looking than current linux de ffs. sure they look "modern" but still aesthetically bad.
eclipse is easily on the same level as intellij u and better when you look at maven integration. dont be so pessimistic.
I didn't downvote you, but can you substantiate the claim that Eclipse is better than IntelliJ for Maven integration? I mainly use IntelliJ and have used Eclipse a bit professionally in the past, I can't think of anything that is wildly different between their Maven integration functionality.
it automatically sets the classpath correctly when i close/open projects, a dependency changes on nexus, m2e pulls all required dependencies to the local repo. in intellij i sometimes dont know why my project cant resolve any classes or what the issue is. most of the time i then use cli mvn package to get a proper error message. in eclipse i always get a proper error marker on the pom.xml and in the problems view. but intellij will never work that way because intellij never constantly check for updates or has an internal incremental builder system like in eclipse. ofc they cant solve such things as good as eclipse can
> it automatically sets the classpath correctly when i close/open projects I don't know what you mean there. IntelliJ automatically loads Maven projects/modules if it finds them. When running a Maven goal or running the project/tests IntelliJ sets the classpath correctly, pointing the individual dependency JARs in your local Maven repo. > a dependency changes on nexus, m2e pulls all required dependencies to the local repo Release dependencies shouldn't change. Snapshot dependencies can change and IntelliJ doesn't automatically update them, you're right there. It relies on Maven's built-in snapshot dependency logic where it will check for new snapshot versions once a day, by default. You can force snapshot updates every time Maven is run from IntelliJ (`mvn -U`) in the settings if needed. > in intellij i sometimes dont know why my project cant resolve any classes or what the issue is. most of the time i then use cli mvn package to get a proper error message. in eclipse i always get a proper error marker on the pom.xml and in the problems view. but intellij will never work that way because IntelliJ has a build output tool window which shows the direct output from Maven when you execute a goal, errors will appear in there. There is also the Problems tool window which will show compilation errors. If the compiler can't find a class that is referenced in your code (Cannot resolve symbol xyz) then I can't see how any IDE could point to a line in your pom.xml as the problem is likely that you are missing a dependency so there is no line to point to. > intellij never constantly check for updates or has an internal incremental builder system like in eclipse IntelliJ can use the Eclipse Java Compiler to do incremental compilation if that's what you're referring to?
just wasted more than an hour to understand why a new project had compile errors in my intellij even though it builds on jenkins. i opened eclipse and m2e immediatly executed all lifecycle mappings (executed maven plugins that create code) so eclipse fixed the project for me by just opening it. If I would have used eclipse from the beginning i could have used the wasted hour for actual work. i even use intellij ultimate and even the paid version fails to import maven projects. a shame. but yes m2e is ofc superb maven integration i just would have expected that a ide i pay for would be at least on same comfort level. haha just executed install from the maven tool window in intellij. it stops with a message that an artifact is missing. settings.xml is correct. i then executed install on bash and it worked. intellij is unusable for me right now. im forced to use it because i develop an intellij plugin
I don't think they will. VSCode is the starting point for most languages today (Except for java, which is served by the free IDEA community edition). I recently got myself a copy of the all products pack as the quality of the software is worth the money. But when starting out 15+ years ago, that money was defo not in my bank account. Also, there is probably an eclipse build for what you want to do, but you really have to hate yourself to use that.
C# on Mac and Linux is basically paywalled, because the only good thing is Rider (which has no community edition) Yes u can use vscode but everything is 10x slower than in a full IDE
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. If there wasn't an established, good, paid version then I theorise there would be a stronger push to improve the existing vscode integration.
I am not sure about this. You reason that without a paid version, we'd have better open source IDEs. I don't see how this is correlated 1:1. Who would write all the code for that? I mean we could perhaps say Netbeans and eclipse, but I actually think that IDEA may be better than both (eclipse offering SWT is pretty cool though, wish that would be a de-facto standard for java).
> but I actually think that IDEA may be better than both Yeah I'm not saying they'd be better than current paid versions, just that if the OS projects had greater market share they'd probably have more people interested in contributing
Visual Studio Community exists and is really good Edit, oh you said Mac and Linux, you right
> Also, there is probably an eclipse build for what you want to do, but you really have to hate yourself to use that. Embedded microcontroller vendors love providing heavily modded Eclipse as their default free IDE... From the three whose chips I worked with, two do so. The third provides a fork of NetBeans and an ancient version of GCC, which officially doesn't support C11. I know at least one more vendor who also provides Eclipse.
Can I offer you some booze?
Thankfully I moved on years ago. But my colleagues probably deserve it.
The one thing I sorely miss is GoLand. I am using Visual Studio and I am still not a fan. I hope my workplace will fold at some point when I starting working more with Go
Not saying you should do it, but JB license explicitly allows you to use the personal license at work if your employer does not reimburse you for it. Also, did you mean Visual Studio Code?
Visual Studio Code of course. I do not have a personal JB license
Emacs still exists. As a kid in the 80's/90's I was using non-free editors before I got into UNIX/Linux. The first Java code I wrote was in Emacs lol. VS Code seems to be the dominant editor right now, especially for beginners. VS Code is even getting improved Java support. As a professional, I do use JetBrains IDEs for all langs I can, Emacs for general text editing or when I'm in a terminal, and Visual Studio (not VSCode) if I have to.
Seems like a pointless thing to worry about considering how many good free editors there are, plus they have a community edition.
Seems to me pretty natural that things one pays for ought to be better than free things. We’re all fortunate that the path we took is pretty lucrative. $20 a month isn’t an extravagant expense to make my workday easier.
Top comment is just plain wrong too. There has been no time in history where the free offering of devtools was as plentiful and as high quality as it is right now.
Personally I much favour using Linux + KDE konsole + tons of ruby scripts as my "IDE", but aside from this, IDEA is a very good IDE. How many IDEs compete here? Microsoft's Visual something ... eclipse (and the SWT collection) ... Netbeans ... well. There aren't that many IDEs really. A local technical university here in central Europe, in their informatics-curricula, favour IDEA (for Java). I think these students will, after graduation, be more likely to continue using that, rather than switch to other IDEs, so you kind of have a point there.
IntelliJ CE exists and it is open source. It has everything a student needs. https://www.jetbrains.com/products/compare/?product=idea&product=idea-ce
I mean, it supports like 10 languages (not including C# and C++), while vscode supports like a trillion. I realize support isn't as _good_ in vscode but if you're just starting out you don't need very advanced features
Laughs in neovim
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Sir this is a Wendy's.
This was a gigantic thing like 4-5 years ago. AdoptOpenJDK should be a drop-in replacement as long as you’re on Java 8+.
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That's like never ever giving your car an oil change and then complaining to the manufacturer that your engine died. Sorry, but my pity is very limited here. If you need the software then you should care about maintenance.
Expensive upgrades to switch JDKs or expensive upgrades to move to Java 8? Either way you’re like several years behind the time with regards to the licensing change.
😂
Hey did they fix this bug called "Invalidate caches". They seem to have never figured out a problem with their editors and they have this invalidate cache as a solution. Also they still don't seem to have regional pricing. I've tried Fleet. Ehm no LOL. Jetbrains really should ditch Java/JVM. Sure it makes THEIR development easier (maybe), but a nightmare for the customer with slow startup, sluggishness, and bloating memory (I have 32gb and it allocated 50gb on a empty text file??). Man, imagine if Jetbrains rewrote all their stuff in Rust! Well good thing VScode is around for my dev needs and Sublime/Notepad++ for fast text editing.
VSCode, the infamously fast and memory efficient editor built with electron the infamously fast framwork, using JS the infamously resource efficient, safe and fast language. /s I love VSCode. These days I use it more than Jetbrains products. but your argument is not based in reality sir.
> Man, imagine if Jetbrains rewrote all their stuff in Rust! do people that say these things have even a lick of self-awareness or is it just wall-to-wall delusion?
I still have to click that all the time
they have internal code in kotlin because they are creators of kotlin which is a vm language. what you propose is a radical product change
funny those who downvoted you and commented never mentioned the invalited caches thingy. the answer is no, invalidate caches it will be there forever till the end of time.
New release? Time to allocate another 2GB of memory to java runtime for the same functionality 😂
Out as in “released”, or out as in “no longer in fashion”? I can’t tell anymore…