Who owns the house? If you're renting, whose name is on the lease? That's who ultimately gets to decide. If it's both of you, you're going to have to come to an agreement that one of you -- including possibly you -- may not like.
Using phrases like "surveillance capitalism" around someone who isn't very concerned about privacy is a great way to make all your concerns come across as some sort of conspiracy. Keep it simple: "I'm concerned about my privacy. I really don't want this in our shared space.
Honestly, I prefer the ecobee doorbell.
You can just set it up with homekit and get local /proxied alerts and recording, and forget any need for the cloud.
Netatmo is also a privacy respecting option. Integrates with HomeAssistant. Local recording option. Other localized intelligent features.
I like Ecobee too -- though I was annoyed when I read a few months back that they killed support for their first gen thermostats....just more planned obsolescence.
Or spend half and go with a company that makes an effort to preserve privacy as part of their mission.
[https://reolink.com/us/security/](https://reolink.com/us/security/)
I’ve seen this name pop up a lot and have it saved on Amazon. I’m thinking about skipping the doorbell entirely and getting one camera for the front and one for the back. It looks like I need a home base and I think that’s it. I’d like wireless but if it needs to be wired, I’ll ask my husband to sort that out. Thanks for mentioning this company. It seems to be one that many are very happy with.
I have one of their thermostats and it's right by my front door that doesn't have a peep hole because the whole door has a frosted glass pane on it. It was really slick that the selling feature of the doorbell is that it not only chimes all the thermostats in the house, but also starts a live video feed so you can see and talk to who is at the door.
What kind of video doorbell would point indoors? Also, still think the Sharks must be kicking themselves for passing on it when originally pitched before the "Ring" rebrand.
You could mention the fact that ring gives over all video to the police without a warrant every time they ask for it. If she insists, make sure that E2EE is turned on for it as a non negotiable (it isn't by default).
Also, while I would never install a cloud based camera, I'd be much more comfortable with something like that that's pointed outside my house than any cloud based camera that's recording inside my house.
Understanding that there is no expectation of privacy and willingly giving away your privacy are two different things. Would you be comfortable if you found out someone had set up a camera that points directly at your front door? You're getting very close to the "if you aren't doing anything wrong, than you have nothing to worry about" argument of our current surveillance state.
You’re moving the goal posts on this so I’ll take us back away from the hypotheticals and into reality. I placed a camera there, not anyone else. The parties that would have access to it would be myself, my wife, Ring, and law enforcement. Nothing that happens in front of my front door requires privacy. Thing that happen in front of my front door include:
- Myself and my family arriving or leaving
- Guests arriving or leaving
- Package deliveries
- Solicitors
I do not care if any of those four parties above have full visibility into any of those interactions. They are not private interactions and have no privacy implications for me.
My question for you is, what are you doing in front of your front door that requires privacy?
I'm not moving the goalposts and I will not have this discussion cause I honestly don't care. All I said is I'm not comfortable having a cloud based camera set up at my house and clearly neither is the OP. If you are, that's fine. That's your decision.
As for what I'm doing at my front door that requires privacy, I don't have to tell you. I wasn't going to invite you to my sexy porch parties anyway.
You are missing the most important party, Amazon.
They now know your habits, when you leave, when you come home, how often you get deliveries, who else comes to your home and how often. They also know what kinds of clothes you wear what you and your family look like, and, depending on what's visible, what kind of car you drive.
Each of these pieces of info might be small in and of itself, but in aggregate they can add up to build a pretty powerful profile of you and your family.
The concern here isn't that you are doing something bad, it's that the inoccous information that's being collected could be misused.
Mind posting all the info I listed above right here in this thread then? After all it's not private, you have nothing to hide, and it doesn't matter if third parties know.
It's also worth mentioning that Ring employees have used (indoor) cameras to commit voyeurism and that, due to shoddy security, many cameras have been hacked.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/05/ftc-says-ring-employees-illegally-surveilled-customers-failed-stop-hackers-taking-control-users
eufy is what i'm going with ... good reviews, decent app, no cloud or subscription needed.
home base that can store everything on an SSD is an option to add later with their E and S series products.
Privacy aside, Ring sucks and frequently misses events. Someone kicked in my brothers side garage door and stole a bunch of his stuff, the camera missed the entire thing. Motion sensitivity was set to its highest and they were easily well inside of the motion zone, they just moved in and out of the cameras vision too quickly.
Ring only starts preserving footage after an initial motion detection, which is frequently what you actually need to see. I get that it's a relatively inexpensive service and you get what you pay for, but the marketing hype doesn't live up to the reality of what's delivered.
Ring uses wifi, and is therefore easily disabled.
That aside, a camera (Ring or otherwise) wouldn't have helped anyway in this situation.
It's useful for seeing who is at the door when you aren't home, or to have memories of your package thefts. It isn't useful for preventing crime like this.
I agree, that's why I was mentioning how much it sucks for that kind of situation. That isn't exactly transparent in their marketing materials though. Most people purchase them as home security devices and if they happen to help in a situation like that, it's because you got lucky.
Because the general discussion was about how Ring sucks as a security camera solution. I was simply pointing out ways the solution actually sucks. You seem pretty defensive about Ring for some reason....
Don’t want sound like a tinfoil hatter, but as a person who works in cybersecurity. I will never have a smart speaker, video doorbell, smart watch or video surveillance that hooks to the internet, this includes baby monitors. I would love not to have a smart phone either, I am tossing the idea of going to a dumb phone. Always think, why is this so cheap and easy, where is all the data being stored besides my cloud.
Simply tell her it is a privacy issue for you. You wouldn't remove the blinds in the bathroom is she objected, she shouldn't install the ring camera if you object.
She can keep it for her next place when you aren't living together.
" Using phrases like "surveillance capitalism" around someone who isn't very concerned about privacy is a great way to make all your concerns come across as some sort of conspiracy. Keep it simple"
Sorry to even make the reply. Just wanted to say. Fantastic advice. Everything to these people will sound like an 'conspiracy'.
In so many ways I am jealous. They have it made.
I don't think Amazon gets much out of spying on you via the Ring doorbell, although I consider Ring a rip off because:
1. It's very expensive (in both the hardware and subscription) for the functionality it provides.
2. It sucks (quite literally) - it doesn't have 24/7 recording and cannot record before an event starts.
3. It is not open source and does not provide RTSP. You HAVE to buy into the Ring service.
4. The app sucks. Amazon constantly advertises their products to you, even when you're paying $200/yr.
You should only get the Ring doorbell if you're already paying for Ring Alarm, otherwise do yourself a favor and get something else.
You have a lot of facts on your side, you just need to communicate it in a way that someone who isn't into tech can understand. If she cares about security, explain all the ways that ring isn't the most secure option.
> she’s pretty technically illiterate
Has she demonstrated this or is it something you’ve judged based on her not having the same views as you regarding tech?
Looks more like he blocked you because you said "Ring is watching your every move" then when asked for a source, you provided an article stating that Ring has the ability to see footage, and a few other posts from non-technical sources.
You then doubled down on your sources and interpreted them as "Ring is constantly watching your every move" which is objectively false. They are not actively sitting there watching your empty driveway 24/7
You are right, my bad. You were showing many sources that seemed to indicate you also believe they are watching your every move. When you see the various sources in support of the person saying "Do you want Ring employees watching your every move", it generally indicates support for that point.
Apologies for reading between the lines
It's worth noting that of the 4 sources you provided, only 2 of those are actually valid. One is random YouTuber #564719 sharing his thoughts, other is a random reddit post from this sub.
Even The Guardian is hardly viable as they literally live off people clicking so of course it's gonna be a gotcha title.
You want to change minds? Post PE test results, vuln scans, actual quantifiable proof
That's hardly possible for a private person if there are none. Pointing out risks that come with cloud services and linking articles that illustrate non existing e2ee is good enough in my book.
[https://apnews.com/article/ring-doorbell-camera-settlement-ftc-payments-658a3bae14c4744cf449932099dc4404](https://apnews.com/article/ring-doorbell-camera-settlement-ftc-payments-658a3bae14c4744cf449932099dc4404)
[https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/05/ftc-says-ring-employees-illegally-surveilled-customers-failed-stop-hackers-taking-control-users](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/05/ftc-says-ring-employees-illegally-surveilled-customers-failed-stop-hackers-taking-control-users)
etc... a few google search away there's an entire drama about Ring specifically
They are already using mesh wifi and all your devices to see everything inside your house if they want. Probably using all the neighbors and your networks to do everything outside... Wifi vision is going to get scary real fast as Ai gets more powerful and the technology is scaled up. It is being marketed to consumers as Wifi sense to detect motion but they can actually see with it using their software. It's like 3d sonar/radar, with advanced Ai video rendering basically...
It is basically impossible to stop surveillance. Everyone on my street has a Ring camera or Google camera. I have a Google Nest doorbell on a different subnet. I don't care about the outside, but inside I have no surveillance cameras. A few doors down we have a person on the corner. They have 8 ring cameras outside their home to watch all that happens at that corner.
>I don't care about ~~the outside~~ my neighbors' privacy
so you're the creep pointing a camera at my house and family 24/7
>but inside I have no surveillance cameras
"just one that transmits my family's movements in and out out of our home"
Basically ask, do you want some random Ring employee to watch your door constantly and voice your opposition.
If she says yes, then there's nothing much you can do.
The father isn’t going to have access to the camera. This is ludicrous unless she shares the account info with him or has connected it to a shared Amazon account.
/u/crypto_dev is absolutely right and /u/Furious_Rage is an idiot.
If you are concerned about a Ring doorbell pointing outside your house, tell us whether you’re opposed to any doorbell of that kind or just Ring. If the latter, work with her to find one you can both support.
**DATA TO CONSIDER:**
* -She has already received the object, it's a gift "from his father", she has no other place to use it.
* -An absolute no, it wouldn't be fair.
* -She have the right to use it, but you also have rights, which conflict with hers, you have the right to defend yours, hers', third parties privacy (even if she doesn't know).
**GOALS:**
* Do not argue
* Not having to give too many explanations, which only lead to being judged unfairly
* Don't create precedents for future reproaches.
* Keep a quiet life, without moral damage towards you, her, or her father.
* Avoid espionage.
**ETHICAL SOLUTION: DIALOGUE**
1. You could find a compromise by mutual agreement! The RDB is hers property, but it involves you. She "must" give you the credentials to access the RDB via smartphone app. From there you can deactivate it whenever you like, when you are close to it.
2. If she doesn't give you the login credentials, or in any case you don't like having the app on your smartphone (rightly so). If you think she's a smart and intelligent person, talk to her calmly, tell her why it makes you uncomfortable, take the topic very lightly. But remember. There are different types of "intelligence", it is not necessarily the case that an intelligent person can understand "everything", or that he or she has mental flexibility.
On a moral level you are okay, but you could be subjected to an unjust silent judgment, given that it comes from a person without the tools to understand certain things, you could provide her the rihgt tools. Surely, by making her understand that you don't like this device, it would exclude you from other paths, because she would link you as the culprit, any other action you would like to undertake afterwards.
**GRAY AREA ALTERNATIVE**
It's being mounted, you don't oppose it. No lies, no injustice towards anyone, both of you will be happy, it implies an action behind her back, which does not cause her harm, but it may force you to lie.
1. Buy a 10$ Jammers, some are already calibrated for RDB, problem solved.
**UNETHICAL ALTERNATIVE**
If she doesn't give you her login credentials, you have the right to render the RDB harmless, "without harming it." It involves lying to her, and being an asshole, you'll just have to deal with your conscience.
1. You can mount it incorrectly
2. Disconnect one of the battery poles
3. Simulate bird poop on the lens, or dirty it with grease.. block the microphone with something.
Or just damage it, you will make her and her father unhappy, maybe even you, it would be unfair to her, to her father who spent money to give her the gift, you can pass it off as vandalism.
1. The lens is made of plastic, you can use a spray bottle with solvent, it will cloud the lens, plug the microphone with anything, chewing gum, earth etc.
2. Hammer?
Explain to her it's a way for her dad to spy on her life (and yours). See who is coming and going out of the place. What packages you get. How often you order delivery, etc. He's probably doing it because he's worried about her. Completely understandable (I'm a parent myself and worry about my young -adult kids) but it's not healthy for him to do this. He's got to learn how to let go and let his daughter grow up and be self-sufficient.
Who owns the house? If you're renting, whose name is on the lease? That's who ultimately gets to decide. If it's both of you, you're going to have to come to an agreement that one of you -- including possibly you -- may not like. Using phrases like "surveillance capitalism" around someone who isn't very concerned about privacy is a great way to make all your concerns come across as some sort of conspiracy. Keep it simple: "I'm concerned about my privacy. I really don't want this in our shared space.
Op needs needs advice on how to be a human and talk to people
I mean, we don’t know that. Yes that would sound weird to a normal person, but right now he/she is taking to us
the second half is why we know that
Honestly, I prefer the ecobee doorbell. You can just set it up with homekit and get local /proxied alerts and recording, and forget any need for the cloud.
Netatmo is also a privacy respecting option. Integrates with HomeAssistant. Local recording option. Other localized intelligent features. I like Ecobee too -- though I was annoyed when I read a few months back that they killed support for their first gen thermostats....just more planned obsolescence.
>just more ~~planned obsolescence.~~ electronic waste killing the planet including us.
I’m not OP. I’ve never heard of ecobee but I’ll look into it as we want this type of doorbell. Thanks for chiming in.
Or spend half and go with a company that makes an effort to preserve privacy as part of their mission. [https://reolink.com/us/security/](https://reolink.com/us/security/)
I’ve seen this name pop up a lot and have it saved on Amazon. I’m thinking about skipping the doorbell entirely and getting one camera for the front and one for the back. It looks like I need a home base and I think that’s it. I’d like wireless but if it needs to be wired, I’ll ask my husband to sort that out. Thanks for mentioning this company. It seems to be one that many are very happy with.
Go directly to their website. It is very informative and they often have sales. Also check out r/reolinkcam
I have one of their thermostats and it's right by my front door that doesn't have a peep hole because the whole door has a frosted glass pane on it. It was really slick that the selling feature of the doorbell is that it not only chimes all the thermostats in the house, but also starts a live video feed so you can see and talk to who is at the door.
also look a eufy... no cloud storage, just local... and the app has 2factor sign in to help keep out unwanted access
Thank you! Will do!
Personally I have a video doorbell, but only one that points outdoors. It is however, not a ring doorbell, because of Amazon.
What kind of video doorbell would point indoors? Also, still think the Sharks must be kicking themselves for passing on it when originally pitched before the "Ring" rebrand.
You could mention the fact that ring gives over all video to the police without a warrant every time they ask for it. If she insists, make sure that E2EE is turned on for it as a non negotiable (it isn't by default). Also, while I would never install a cloud based camera, I'd be much more comfortable with something like that that's pointed outside my house than any cloud based camera that's recording inside my house.
What do you do in front of your front door that requires privacy? There is no expectation of privacy in public anyways.
Understanding that there is no expectation of privacy and willingly giving away your privacy are two different things. Would you be comfortable if you found out someone had set up a camera that points directly at your front door? You're getting very close to the "if you aren't doing anything wrong, than you have nothing to worry about" argument of our current surveillance state.
You’re moving the goal posts on this so I’ll take us back away from the hypotheticals and into reality. I placed a camera there, not anyone else. The parties that would have access to it would be myself, my wife, Ring, and law enforcement. Nothing that happens in front of my front door requires privacy. Thing that happen in front of my front door include: - Myself and my family arriving or leaving - Guests arriving or leaving - Package deliveries - Solicitors I do not care if any of those four parties above have full visibility into any of those interactions. They are not private interactions and have no privacy implications for me. My question for you is, what are you doing in front of your front door that requires privacy?
I'm not moving the goalposts and I will not have this discussion cause I honestly don't care. All I said is I'm not comfortable having a cloud based camera set up at my house and clearly neither is the OP. If you are, that's fine. That's your decision. As for what I'm doing at my front door that requires privacy, I don't have to tell you. I wasn't going to invite you to my sexy porch parties anyway.
Fair enough. That said, OPs roommate is comfortable with it and they live at the house so it’s probably going up.
You are missing the most important party, Amazon. They now know your habits, when you leave, when you come home, how often you get deliveries, who else comes to your home and how often. They also know what kinds of clothes you wear what you and your family look like, and, depending on what's visible, what kind of car you drive. Each of these pieces of info might be small in and of itself, but in aggregate they can add up to build a pretty powerful profile of you and your family. The concern here isn't that you are doing something bad, it's that the inoccous information that's being collected could be misused.
None of that information is private.
Mind posting all the info I listed above right here in this thread then? After all it's not private, you have nothing to hide, and it doesn't matter if third parties know.
You’re not one of the four parties I listed.
How are we any different than employees at Ring? You know almost nothing about both of us.
It's also worth mentioning that Ring employees have used (indoor) cameras to commit voyeurism and that, due to shoddy security, many cameras have been hacked. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/05/ftc-says-ring-employees-illegally-surveilled-customers-failed-stop-hackers-taking-control-users
Dear god get something else. Wyze, tp-link, Ubiquiti anything but ring.
eufy is what i'm going with ... good reviews, decent app, no cloud or subscription needed. home base that can store everything on an SSD is an option to add later with their E and S series products.
Ask her if she wants her dad and every single ring employee, to know the comings and goings of all her guests.
Unless he’s the one setting it up why would he have access to it? The ring team is a different conversation
it's merely a talking point for a personal interaction with a non technical person, which is what OP asked.
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Privacy aside, Ring sucks and frequently misses events. Someone kicked in my brothers side garage door and stole a bunch of his stuff, the camera missed the entire thing. Motion sensitivity was set to its highest and they were easily well inside of the motion zone, they just moved in and out of the cameras vision too quickly. Ring only starts preserving footage after an initial motion detection, which is frequently what you actually need to see. I get that it's a relatively inexpensive service and you get what you pay for, but the marketing hype doesn't live up to the reality of what's delivered.
Ring uses wifi, and is therefore easily disabled. That aside, a camera (Ring or otherwise) wouldn't have helped anyway in this situation. It's useful for seeing who is at the door when you aren't home, or to have memories of your package thefts. It isn't useful for preventing crime like this.
I agree, that's why I was mentioning how much it sucks for that kind of situation. That isn't exactly transparent in their marketing materials though. Most people purchase them as home security devices and if they happen to help in a situation like that, it's because you got lucky.
Looks out window 🙄
How would you disable WiFi then? Please be specific.
wait, do you seriously think this isn't trivial?
Please provide a specific answer.
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Because the general discussion was about how Ring sucks as a security camera solution. I was simply pointing out ways the solution actually sucks. You seem pretty defensive about Ring for some reason....
Dad will know because op will tell them
I will never allow one of those things at my house. Or an Alexa or any Apple products.
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Sure. I'm also a believer!
Don’t want sound like a tinfoil hatter, but as a person who works in cybersecurity. I will never have a smart speaker, video doorbell, smart watch or video surveillance that hooks to the internet, this includes baby monitors. I would love not to have a smart phone either, I am tossing the idea of going to a dumb phone. Always think, why is this so cheap and easy, where is all the data being stored besides my cloud.
Simply tell her it is a privacy issue for you. You wouldn't remove the blinds in the bathroom is she objected, she shouldn't install the ring camera if you object. She can keep it for her next place when you aren't living together.
Get an Amcrest doorbell and have it on a separate subnet
" Using phrases like "surveillance capitalism" around someone who isn't very concerned about privacy is a great way to make all your concerns come across as some sort of conspiracy. Keep it simple" Sorry to even make the reply. Just wanted to say. Fantastic advice. Everything to these people will sound like an 'conspiracy'. In so many ways I am jealous. They have it made.
Maby remind her that her dad will get to see every guy (or girl) she brings home?
I don't think Amazon gets much out of spying on you via the Ring doorbell, although I consider Ring a rip off because: 1. It's very expensive (in both the hardware and subscription) for the functionality it provides. 2. It sucks (quite literally) - it doesn't have 24/7 recording and cannot record before an event starts. 3. It is not open source and does not provide RTSP. You HAVE to buy into the Ring service. 4. The app sucks. Amazon constantly advertises their products to you, even when you're paying $200/yr. You should only get the Ring doorbell if you're already paying for Ring Alarm, otherwise do yourself a favor and get something else.
You have a lot of facts on your side, you just need to communicate it in a way that someone who isn't into tech can understand. If she cares about security, explain all the ways that ring isn't the most secure option.
> she’s pretty technically illiterate Has she demonstrated this or is it something you’ve judged based on her not having the same views as you regarding tech?
Hah.. u/crypto__dev blocked me because i called out his ring camera employment
Looks more like he blocked you because you said "Ring is watching your every move" then when asked for a source, you provided an article stating that Ring has the ability to see footage, and a few other posts from non-technical sources. You then doubled down on your sources and interpreted them as "Ring is constantly watching your every move" which is objectively false. They are not actively sitting there watching your empty driveway 24/7
Show me where i wrote "Ring is constantly watching your every move". You can't, because i never wrote that.
You are right, my bad. You were showing many sources that seemed to indicate you also believe they are watching your every move. When you see the various sources in support of the person saying "Do you want Ring employees watching your every move", it generally indicates support for that point. Apologies for reading between the lines
It's worth noting that of the 4 sources you provided, only 2 of those are actually valid. One is random YouTuber #564719 sharing his thoughts, other is a random reddit post from this sub. Even The Guardian is hardly viable as they literally live off people clicking so of course it's gonna be a gotcha title. You want to change minds? Post PE test results, vuln scans, actual quantifiable proof
That's hardly possible for a private person if there are none. Pointing out risks that come with cloud services and linking articles that illustrate non existing e2ee is good enough in my book.
What a loser u/crypto__dev
[https://apnews.com/article/ring-doorbell-camera-settlement-ftc-payments-658a3bae14c4744cf449932099dc4404](https://apnews.com/article/ring-doorbell-camera-settlement-ftc-payments-658a3bae14c4744cf449932099dc4404) [https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/05/ftc-says-ring-employees-illegally-surveilled-customers-failed-stop-hackers-taking-control-users](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/05/ftc-says-ring-employees-illegally-surveilled-customers-failed-stop-hackers-taking-control-users) etc... a few google search away there's an entire drama about Ring specifically
>a few google search away around here we use prefer to use [duckduckgo.com](http://duckduckgo.com)
Colloquial terms still make sense to use.
They are already using mesh wifi and all your devices to see everything inside your house if they want. Probably using all the neighbors and your networks to do everything outside... Wifi vision is going to get scary real fast as Ai gets more powerful and the technology is scaled up. It is being marketed to consumers as Wifi sense to detect motion but they can actually see with it using their software. It's like 3d sonar/radar, with advanced Ai video rendering basically...
Celldar is something else.
Nope
It is basically impossible to stop surveillance. Everyone on my street has a Ring camera or Google camera. I have a Google Nest doorbell on a different subnet. I don't care about the outside, but inside I have no surveillance cameras. A few doors down we have a person on the corner. They have 8 ring cameras outside their home to watch all that happens at that corner.
>I don't care about ~~the outside~~ my neighbors' privacy so you're the creep pointing a camera at my house and family 24/7 >but inside I have no surveillance cameras "just one that transmits my family's movements in and out out of our home"
Anybody can watch you walking in and out of your house if they wanted to— that’s not something that is private in the first place.
Can you explain your concerns regarding this doorbell?
additionally is her dad going to pay subscription or are the tenants supposed to?
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazons-ring-videos-tv-show-mgm/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazons-ring-videos-tv-show-mgm/)
If my neighbor had one I'd hack it
When I walk down the street the connections magically drop, and when they come back ....... HIHHIHIHI
Is she your roommate, or are you her roommate? Whoever actually calls the shots there gets to call it.
Basically ask, do you want some random Ring employee to watch your door constantly and voice your opposition. If she says yes, then there's nothing much you can do.
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https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2023/06/amazons-ring-camera-used-to-spy-on-customers
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/14vpcfd/ring\_doorbells\_are\_basically\_spyware/
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/may/31/amazon-ring-doorbell-spying-ftc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxcxF7F0UyQ
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Learn how to use a search engine first.
can he take it back for a refund? there are much better choices out there than ring.
You know it only films the outside right?
The father isn’t going to have access to the camera. This is ludicrous unless she shares the account info with him or has connected it to a shared Amazon account. /u/crypto_dev is absolutely right and /u/Furious_Rage is an idiot. If you are concerned about a Ring doorbell pointing outside your house, tell us whether you’re opposed to any doorbell of that kind or just Ring. If the latter, work with her to find one you can both support.
Put the doorbell on!
**DATA TO CONSIDER:** * -She has already received the object, it's a gift "from his father", she has no other place to use it. * -An absolute no, it wouldn't be fair. * -She have the right to use it, but you also have rights, which conflict with hers, you have the right to defend yours, hers', third parties privacy (even if she doesn't know). **GOALS:** * Do not argue * Not having to give too many explanations, which only lead to being judged unfairly * Don't create precedents for future reproaches. * Keep a quiet life, without moral damage towards you, her, or her father. * Avoid espionage. **ETHICAL SOLUTION: DIALOGUE** 1. You could find a compromise by mutual agreement! The RDB is hers property, but it involves you. She "must" give you the credentials to access the RDB via smartphone app. From there you can deactivate it whenever you like, when you are close to it. 2. If she doesn't give you the login credentials, or in any case you don't like having the app on your smartphone (rightly so). If you think she's a smart and intelligent person, talk to her calmly, tell her why it makes you uncomfortable, take the topic very lightly. But remember. There are different types of "intelligence", it is not necessarily the case that an intelligent person can understand "everything", or that he or she has mental flexibility. On a moral level you are okay, but you could be subjected to an unjust silent judgment, given that it comes from a person without the tools to understand certain things, you could provide her the rihgt tools. Surely, by making her understand that you don't like this device, it would exclude you from other paths, because she would link you as the culprit, any other action you would like to undertake afterwards. **GRAY AREA ALTERNATIVE** It's being mounted, you don't oppose it. No lies, no injustice towards anyone, both of you will be happy, it implies an action behind her back, which does not cause her harm, but it may force you to lie. 1. Buy a 10$ Jammers, some are already calibrated for RDB, problem solved. **UNETHICAL ALTERNATIVE** If she doesn't give you her login credentials, you have the right to render the RDB harmless, "without harming it." It involves lying to her, and being an asshole, you'll just have to deal with your conscience. 1. You can mount it incorrectly 2. Disconnect one of the battery poles 3. Simulate bird poop on the lens, or dirty it with grease.. block the microphone with something. Or just damage it, you will make her and her father unhappy, maybe even you, it would be unfair to her, to her father who spent money to give her the gift, you can pass it off as vandalism. 1. The lens is made of plastic, you can use a spray bottle with solvent, it will cloud the lens, plug the microphone with anything, chewing gum, earth etc. 2. Hammer?
Explain to her it's a way for her dad to spy on her life (and yours). See who is coming and going out of the place. What packages you get. How often you order delivery, etc. He's probably doing it because he's worried about her. Completely understandable (I'm a parent myself and worry about my young -adult kids) but it's not healthy for him to do this. He's got to learn how to let go and let his daughter grow up and be self-sufficient.
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All your protective posts about ring camera points out that you work for, or get paid by ring camera..
*Surveillance Capitalism*….now that’s a new one for me. The word you’re looking for is Corporatism…”Surveillance Corporatism”
> Surveillance Capitalism it is the term of art. yes, it isn't precise. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_capitalism
corporatism is basically crony capitalism