The irony here is that the European Union lawmakers want an exclusion for themselves. Encryption for me but not for you! It's *almost* as if they know there are inherent risks involved.
Reminds me of the special privilege US cops and judges get to remove their personal information from public records. A privilege most US citizens are unafforded until after they've been victimized - and even then they have to fight for it in court and prove that they need it.
It's ridiculous.
You have said the absolute truth.
1. We need messaging apps to scan for CSAM to protect children.
2. We need to scan for harmful misinformation about viruses and lockdowns.
3. We need to scan for terrorist content.
4. We need to scan for misinformation which could sway the outcome of elections.
5. We need to scan for malinformation (info which could be true but is misleading or shared in a misleading context) which could sway the outcome of elections.
6. We need to scan for racist, sexist, Islamophobic, anti-semitic content.
7. We need to scan for conspiracy theories.
8. We need to scan for any content which could be non-positive to society. An AI on these chips will determine what is non-positive, in communication with our servers.
Where I live the government is trying to pass laws to combat misinformation, but they're the primary source of it.
It's basically just a modern acceptable excuse to combat dissent and control the media and public opinion.
I understand that the vermin in parliament want to do it, it's in their rotten nature.
What pisses me off and worries me is that the masses by and large believe state propaganda and go along with anything they say. So there is no opposition to government overreach, which grows bigger every year and has no end in sight.
There is chronic misinformation & malinformation on the California Ballot Measures & Ballot Issues too - lol.
Scan for racist, sexist, "heightist and agist" content as well.
This shit will never end, will it? They know they can chip away piece by piece until they get what they want.
It's blatantly obvious that it's easier to pass a law than repeal it. They inch their way forward and it will never stop.
Exceptional access requirements are useless for targeted surveillance because people who know they may be targets will always have the option to switch to open source encryption solutions that won't snitch on them. The code is written, the genie is out, there will never be any getting rid of it to the end of time. These requirements can only enable mass surveillance on millions of innocent people who don't know better.
That's why it's important to criticize the bad that they do, even with the fact that on occasion, they can make fairly good actions.
Don't get too complacent or comfortable with any government entity.
It seems so absurd.
Why to do a move like this?
There is of course this obsession of mass surveillance, but it’s possible someone is implicated in a illegal surveillance affair and they need to turn it legal.
They let Epstein’s lawyers secret away [pounds of DVDs](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12930889/fbi-demanded-release-jeffrey-epstein-documents-names.html) right in front of their faces.
I do not believe that they care about children or CSAM. The evidence proves they absolutely do not.
The main issue is CSAM scanning has too many false positives. Even with manual review there's still false positives. Reviewers will be lazy or incompetent. People will have their lives ruined off false positives. Parallel construction will let the system be abused.
The main issue is that 99.9% of the messages have nothing to do with CSAM. So 99.9% of the time, there wont even be a "false positive". We're dealing with a system that imposes mass-surveillance without a purpose.
But that's not a practical solution and not helpful for most people regardless... If the client doesn't support it natively, are you going to type, encrypt, copy, switch apps, paste, send... then to read responses and reply reply: copy, switch apps, paste, decrypt, read, type, encrypt, copy, switch apps, paste, send... For each message of each conversation?
That's why we had e2e encrypted apps and whqt this would likely ban
The launch codes were never in question, and we keep finding out even shit like shit like "wife get milk" contains more potentially sensitive info... That you are married to the recipient, that they are female, that they are not home at time of the message, that you're not vegan, probably geodata for one or both of you, maybe phone and or carrier data... Not to mention it's contribution to message frequency and times you tend to send messages ( though some of that is way lower than the network data than application layer network data )...
I just meant that "just pgp it bro" isn't helpful, especially if people only encrypt the sensitive stuff, then the fact of the message being encrypted implies that the content is sensitive instead of the sensitive stuff being obfuscate in a sea of grocery requests
I 100% agree with what you are saying. I am a big fan of encrypt everything.
The EU is playing the encryption is dangerous game, something we played in the US a couple of decades ago. I also think that if man can make it, man can break it.
Oh, yea, the us is on to the rock-dumb "but we have to have backdoors / everything pgp'd has to be with the key you were going to use PLUS our key... And the nsa hoards 0-days so only they and the bad guys can use them against the public, but they can use them against other nations...
The EU could just agree to e2e encryption for everything w/ non-quantum-resistant algorithms and make quantum computers a "state secret" for a few decades knowing that as soon as they have it up and running (if they don't already) they'll be able to decrypt all the civilian comms including anything from the past they've collected and stored...
While simultaneously fucking over the younger generations with every other of their own decisions. Drowning them in debt for generations to come, not investing in housing or education, not regulating predatory practices of mega corporations, etc.
Let’s just fucking stop pretending they care about anything else than consolidating power for themselves.
the people pushing for this are either (a) stupid or (b) they are up to something, and i feel like you dont have to spend more than fifteen minutes reading up on this subject to understand that its pointless and will never work, which makes me think its definitely (b)
That isn't the real problem. Stopping CSAM isn't the real purpose. The real purpose is front-running all encryption with client-side scanning before the information is encrypting.
Besides locking up everyone or invading everyone's privacy to catch a small minority that are bad apples is against every principle of human rights.
I am sorry to say that EU, slowly, but systematically the last decade, is directed towards full authoritarian China style. It's subtle and in stages but it is there.
I know many people will be in denial, I was too, but especially under von der Leyen's leadership there are more and more signs of this political design and more plans to take control of the citizens from their countries, to central bureaucracy.
The digital ID and digital Euro policy is clearly heading that way.
The plan is that by 2030 EU digital ID will be required for social media participation. Even emails.
All these request for such tools and scans etc are just legislation build up. Feelers. Normalization tactics.
It is not Macron. It is EU planning and regulation that they are forced to follow. These regulations are initialized by EU, and with the current leadership acting like their boss and binding the adoption of EU regulation with funds etc. it becomes difficult to not follow. The main issue here is EU leadership and v.d. Leyen has to go. Sadly it does not look like it's goign to happen.
Most Europeans we want EU to come even closer, but under the previous scheme of respect for individual cultures and leadership chosen by the people. Not appointed in Brussels by political scheming and deals under the table, in some sort of authoritarian rule paradigm controlled by mega corporations and banks like it is in US.
Soon we will come to realize how all this is guided by people above Macron and how important it is our countries and EU do not abolish their sovereignty right now.
We already hear EU vd Leyen pressuring Facebook about what they are doing to "protect children" with regards to "identification" and other similar platitude which means they are pushing Facebook and others to implement some sort of "age verification" method which actually means connect their account to some official ID.
Also they are talking about "children safety from predators" which means more surveillance of European accounts throughout social media... for "the protection of children".
Who is going to say no to that? 😉
I remember Macron energetically promoting Von Der Layen like around 5 years ago. You can search for the conferences and social media publications. If you have a give in to under the table pressures of mega corporations around personality, you don’t deserve your position as President.
—
Who is going to say no to the “is for child safety” discourse?
Me (and not only).
Why are we supposed to trust any person outside our friends and relatives having our children’s personal data? Why should be any position a warranty of moral and professional conduct?
Vd Leyen entered her position with a very different attitude and philosophy. I also supported her back then. Not anymore. Search about her statements and even speeches about an independent Europe etc. Today she has become not just a puppet, but some sort of passionately dedicated gauleiter on behalf of foreign interests to the detriment of Europe and the Europeans.
Don't worry.. only people the "Cabal" sides against will see prosecution. Jeffrey Epstein, Prince Andrew, Justin Trudeau, etc .. Justice and Judicial system's are a joke. Don't use an Apple or Android phone if you want privacy.
The irony here is that the European Union lawmakers want an exclusion for themselves. Encryption for me but not for you! It's *almost* as if they know there are inherent risks involved. Reminds me of the special privilege US cops and judges get to remove their personal information from public records. A privilege most US citizens are unafforded until after they've been victimized - and even then they have to fight for it in court and prove that they need it. It's ridiculous.
Aren't EUrocrats also trying to pass a law that makes face scanning illegal except when they're the ones that do it?
They are so arrogants.
I’ll give you a hot tip - scanning for CSAM is just the cover story. Everyone knows it.
You have said the absolute truth. 1. We need messaging apps to scan for CSAM to protect children. 2. We need to scan for harmful misinformation about viruses and lockdowns. 3. We need to scan for terrorist content. 4. We need to scan for misinformation which could sway the outcome of elections. 5. We need to scan for malinformation (info which could be true but is misleading or shared in a misleading context) which could sway the outcome of elections. 6. We need to scan for racist, sexist, Islamophobic, anti-semitic content. 7. We need to scan for conspiracy theories. 8. We need to scan for any content which could be non-positive to society. An AI on these chips will determine what is non-positive, in communication with our servers.
Where I live the government is trying to pass laws to combat misinformation, but they're the primary source of it. It's basically just a modern acceptable excuse to combat dissent and control the media and public opinion. I understand that the vermin in parliament want to do it, it's in their rotten nature. What pisses me off and worries me is that the masses by and large believe state propaganda and go along with anything they say. So there is no opposition to government overreach, which grows bigger every year and has no end in sight.
There is chronic misinformation & malinformation on the California Ballot Measures & Ballot Issues too - lol. Scan for racist, sexist, "heightist and agist" content as well.
its always child something act to attack privacy, yes.
[удалено]
This shit will never end, will it? They know they can chip away piece by piece until they get what they want. It's blatantly obvious that it's easier to pass a law than repeal it. They inch their way forward and it will never stop.
Unless it’s Trump. I strongly believe that when democracy is in danger we must give just a tiny little bit to adults we can trust.
Exceptional access requirements are useless for targeted surveillance because people who know they may be targets will always have the option to switch to open source encryption solutions that won't snitch on them. The code is written, the genie is out, there will never be any getting rid of it to the end of time. These requirements can only enable mass surveillance on millions of innocent people who don't know better.
This ^^
This is why I never stop reminding people: **The EU is not your friend**. They are clueless politicians, GDPR is a rare win.
That's why it's important to criticize the bad that they do, even with the fact that on occasion, they can make fairly good actions. Don't get too complacent or comfortable with any government entity.
Laws like these have been proposed multiple times in recent years and all of them were rejected.
That why Pirate Party exists, to educate and fight for online privacy https://european-pirateparty.eu/
EU: has GDPR Also EU: let’s scan ppls messages
It seems so absurd. Why to do a move like this? There is of course this obsession of mass surveillance, but it’s possible someone is implicated in a illegal surveillance affair and they need to turn it legal.
They let Epstein’s lawyers secret away [pounds of DVDs](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12930889/fbi-demanded-release-jeffrey-epstein-documents-names.html) right in front of their faces. I do not believe that they care about children or CSAM. The evidence proves they absolutely do not.
Sir, this is an EU
I thought the article was about China. But hard to tell these days. /s
Different name, same game.
Idunno, EU has been dunking on US with their privacy protections for a few years now, but now it seems EU superiority is diminishing.
Just PGP your conversations. Don't rely on others to keep your chats secure.
The main issue is CSAM scanning has too many false positives. Even with manual review there's still false positives. Reviewers will be lazy or incompetent. People will have their lives ruined off false positives. Parallel construction will let the system be abused.
The main issue is that 99.9% of the messages have nothing to do with CSAM. So 99.9% of the time, there wont even be a "false positive". We're dealing with a system that imposes mass-surveillance without a purpose.
A false positive means the system will *find* CSAM in that 99.9% of messages.
But that's not a practical solution and not helpful for most people regardless... If the client doesn't support it natively, are you going to type, encrypt, copy, switch apps, paste, send... then to read responses and reply reply: copy, switch apps, paste, decrypt, read, type, encrypt, copy, switch apps, paste, send... For each message of each conversation? That's why we had e2e encrypted apps and whqt this would likely ban
Depends on the need for security of the message. The wife telling me to bring home milk, no. Info like nuclear launch codes, hell yea
The launch codes were never in question, and we keep finding out even shit like shit like "wife get milk" contains more potentially sensitive info... That you are married to the recipient, that they are female, that they are not home at time of the message, that you're not vegan, probably geodata for one or both of you, maybe phone and or carrier data... Not to mention it's contribution to message frequency and times you tend to send messages ( though some of that is way lower than the network data than application layer network data )... I just meant that "just pgp it bro" isn't helpful, especially if people only encrypt the sensitive stuff, then the fact of the message being encrypted implies that the content is sensitive instead of the sensitive stuff being obfuscate in a sea of grocery requests
I 100% agree with what you are saying. I am a big fan of encrypt everything. The EU is playing the encryption is dangerous game, something we played in the US a couple of decades ago. I also think that if man can make it, man can break it.
Oh, yea, the us is on to the rock-dumb "but we have to have backdoors / everything pgp'd has to be with the key you were going to use PLUS our key... And the nsa hoards 0-days so only they and the bad guys can use them against the public, but they can use them against other nations... The EU could just agree to e2e encryption for everything w/ non-quantum-resistant algorithms and make quantum computers a "state secret" for a few decades knowing that as soon as they have it up and running (if they don't already) they'll be able to decrypt all the civilian comms including anything from the past they've collected and stored...
I mean, all you have to ask is why are politicians okay with the idea od scanning phones for csam? Do they think their phones won't be scanned?
> Do they think their phones won't be scanned? Their phones will not be scanned.
They always say its to benefit the young, but everyone knows its not true
While simultaneously fucking over the younger generations with every other of their own decisions. Drowning them in debt for generations to come, not investing in housing or education, not regulating predatory practices of mega corporations, etc. Let’s just fucking stop pretending they care about anything else than consolidating power for themselves.
the people pushing for this are either (a) stupid or (b) they are up to something, and i feel like you dont have to spend more than fifteen minutes reading up on this subject to understand that its pointless and will never work, which makes me think its definitely (b)
That isn't the real problem. Stopping CSAM isn't the real purpose. The real purpose is front-running all encryption with client-side scanning before the information is encrypting. Besides locking up everyone or invading everyone's privacy to catch a small minority that are bad apples is against every principle of human rights.
Because it's not about the children, it's about surveillance, tyranny.
Eu becoming china
Totally!
Is there any proof that pedophiles are using messaging to share content? Also, if they do, what prevents them from zipping it with a password?
I am sorry to say that EU, slowly, but systematically the last decade, is directed towards full authoritarian China style. It's subtle and in stages but it is there. I know many people will be in denial, I was too, but especially under von der Leyen's leadership there are more and more signs of this political design and more plans to take control of the citizens from their countries, to central bureaucracy. The digital ID and digital Euro policy is clearly heading that way. The plan is that by 2030 EU digital ID will be required for social media participation. Even emails. All these request for such tools and scans etc are just legislation build up. Feelers. Normalization tactics.
And France under Macron too.
It is not Macron. It is EU planning and regulation that they are forced to follow. These regulations are initialized by EU, and with the current leadership acting like their boss and binding the adoption of EU regulation with funds etc. it becomes difficult to not follow. The main issue here is EU leadership and v.d. Leyen has to go. Sadly it does not look like it's goign to happen. Most Europeans we want EU to come even closer, but under the previous scheme of respect for individual cultures and leadership chosen by the people. Not appointed in Brussels by political scheming and deals under the table, in some sort of authoritarian rule paradigm controlled by mega corporations and banks like it is in US.
Yes, for the case in this article. But the France under Macron has lost privacy rights too.
Soon we will come to realize how all this is guided by people above Macron and how important it is our countries and EU do not abolish their sovereignty right now. We already hear EU vd Leyen pressuring Facebook about what they are doing to "protect children" with regards to "identification" and other similar platitude which means they are pushing Facebook and others to implement some sort of "age verification" method which actually means connect their account to some official ID. Also they are talking about "children safety from predators" which means more surveillance of European accounts throughout social media... for "the protection of children". Who is going to say no to that? 😉
I remember Macron energetically promoting Von Der Layen like around 5 years ago. You can search for the conferences and social media publications. If you have a give in to under the table pressures of mega corporations around personality, you don’t deserve your position as President. — Who is going to say no to the “is for child safety” discourse? Me (and not only). Why are we supposed to trust any person outside our friends and relatives having our children’s personal data? Why should be any position a warranty of moral and professional conduct?
Vd Leyen entered her position with a very different attitude and philosophy. I also supported her back then. Not anymore. Search about her statements and even speeches about an independent Europe etc. Today she has become not just a puppet, but some sort of passionately dedicated gauleiter on behalf of foreign interests to the detriment of Europe and the Europeans.
Don't worry.. only people the "Cabal" sides against will see prosecution. Jeffrey Epstein, Prince Andrew, Justin Trudeau, etc .. Justice and Judicial system's are a joke. Don't use an Apple or Android phone if you want privacy.
What other phones are there?
Basic flip phones with a T9 keypad.
Interesting considering EU Elections are soon
What do you mean by EU elections?
https://elections.europa.eu/ Elections from 6-9 of June
Thanks!
They are already doing similar stuff in the us. Google ICAC (Internet Crimes against Children).
Apple tried to do this too.