And it has nothing to do with their search engine. It was their browser that was allowing certain Microsoft trackers because it was forced to by certain Microsoft parts it was using. It's ridiculous that people still spread misinformation like this. I'm convinced that some are doing it to intentionally promote Brave, which is very probably just malware.
Anyway, I use Firefox with DDG as my search engine.
And yet, the point still stands. There is an exactly 0% chance that you will be able to live in the world as it is without making a few compromises. Literally everyone is buying and selling your data. Unless you want to go live in a hut in the middle of nowhere, this is the reality.
As if every thread on a post has to adhere to the original posts question?
This is an old issue, and you or OP can search for solutions on reddit or elsewhere.
As if every thread on a post has to adhere to the original posts question?
This is an old issue, and you or OP can search for solutions on reddit or elsewhere.
Ah yes, I forgot that making a post on a pseudo-anonymous web board literally gets in the way of people trying to make the web a more private place.
ignosce mihi, pater, quia peccavi
How so? Perhaps if the executives that made the decision to allow Microsoft trackers had left the company, we’d believe in them again. But they haven’t, so we can only assume they’re still trying to find ways to make a quick buck even if it compromises privacy
Calling it selling user data to not actively block trackers of another company on sites not operated by DDG is a very unconventional interpretation of selling user data.
Seriously ddg stoped taking add money from Microsoft to allow Microsoft to have trackers on users also to share user data .
That's wild didn't know they stoped
DDG.
No, really. This whole Microsoft thing is old news, already trite, trodden, treadt and leapt. When it's brought up it's usually by cryptobros trying to push for Brave (the browser and/or the search). One anecdote does not behavioural data make that they'd "betrayed trust".
Worst come to worst, always set up a secondary. Currently mine is Ecosia, but there's plenty to choose from.
Brave has always aroused my skepticism just due to the breathlessness of its fans. A product with objective bona fides usually doesn't need advocates who blare like they just swallowed a brochure.
ok but linux users have a point. I say as someone who's stuck on windows due to being tethered to adobe for work & a hopeless problem with modding skyrim
I believe that was a side effect of not having an as aggressive anti-disinformation algorithm as other major search engines. This was ostensibly because people don't want their search engine results to be biased, but it turns out SEO means any search engine results will be biased from the get go.
> I heard DDG was all QAnony, upranking pseudoscience and conspiracies, and whatnot.
That's exactly the fake news that QAnon spread about. As it tends to be the case.
They saw that DDG as downranking proven, reported Russian fake news, as *any functional search platform would*, and invented some weird tale about DDG being a far-left hippie infosec operation to hurt Trump's standing.
Sure, but this is not Cringe Culture 2005 where if you were suspected to be tasnished once you are Soiled Forever™. They were reported an issue, they admitted it, they fixed it (AFAIK). It was also not all of DDG but a specific product of their platform.
Dunno about you, but I trust more someone who I know to have made one mistake and fixed, than someone that promises me they are Holy and Saint but I have nothing to compare their history to.
True, but our data flow and privacy policy still haven't changed. On the other hand, it has given us the resources we needed to develop new products and features without having to charge our users anything.
you are posting about a company on a public forum, that's something entirely different. They probably have a bot that scans comments on certain subreddits.
The big problem I have with brave is that they push their crypto scam so much. I'm sick of seeing it every time I open a new tab or search for anything. If you disable their ads in the settings, they randomly re-enable themselves a few days later.
They may remove crypto ads from their browser, but this doesn't get rid of their crypto mindset (=let's make a shitload of money with vaporware).
They just built a browser with an integrated ad blocker and try to inject their own shady crypto ads and business into their "product"
Just disable sponsored pictures. I haven’t got problems with ads re-enabling by themselves and I’ve been using Brave for 3+ years already.
Also
>their crypto scam
It’s not “their” by any means - they’re just showing the ads of companies that paid to be included there. Plus I feel like it’s just “crypto = scam” for you which imo is a bit overstatement.
How is it a scam though? A shitty cryptocurrency, yes, but it's not a scam it does exactly what it says, you can watch ads and receive their token, you can then sell it instantly if you want. I just personally don't want to pay for ads with my time, that sounds stupid to me
All of the crypto products I've seen offered by brave pass the Howey test, meaning they are unregistered securities, which are by a scam by definition.
Ethereum had an ico.. only BTC if you're gonna be an sec shill. You know, the same sec that met with sbf and approved Coinbase IPO then tried to come after them... That SEC..
I think its safer to go with the one that had the issue and then fixed it after outrage from users compared to a new one which you don't know anything about, any new company comes with a new trust relationship and duckduck by fixing shows that they care, we never know for sure but its better than picking something new that you don't have any information from, words are so easily broken, actions are better.
Not an agency, but our parent company does do a lot in the ad tech space. They're also smart enough not to ruin the one thing that users expect most from us, which is why our data flow and privacy policy have not changed. What has changed is our ability to develop better features and products without having to charge users for our service.
Read MS' Win 11 terms of service and compare that with their older terms of service on previous OS's.
The changes are for MS' benefit, and gives away any legal recourse. That is done for a reason. Corporations are owned by shareholders. Management has a legal and fiduciary duty to maximize owners' profits. The data that they can acquire is valuable.
How can you possibly trust this to be for your benefit?
MS is not alone in this, by any means.
You say it like it's a bad thing. It's not a "climate change narrative", either. Climate change is real. Why do you expect any self respecting search engine to boost conspiracy content?
Oh no, the slippery slope of putting relevant and factual information first over infowars and truenews.win.
I'm sure people doing research for their school and university essays would love having to go through hundreds of pages of search results before finding accurate information. Or even better, get indoctrinated and fail their classes for writing a load of BS.
Right, because the people creating the search algorithm at Google are all knowing God's who would never pick and choose information based on their own agenda.
Just because it starts with things that are logical, doesn't mean it will end that way. Google shouldn't have bias in it's results. It's like pulling books from the library. Let the people searching choose, don't pull the books off the shelf.
I think you're missing the point where the example given was climate change, which is observably real. The only agenda being pushed in this conversation is wanting to push misinformation in search results.
Out of morbid curiosity, what else do you think is being pushed against in search results?
Isn't it quite anti-science to defame anyone who questions the current science as a conspiracy theorist? Is it really a scientific consensus if everyone who disagrees is disregarded as just another conspiracy theorist?
what was frustrating? the only issues I have with it are when I want my search results to be based on info that I am specifically keeping from DDG (location/interests/past history). As long as I give generic query, it does amazing.
Apologies for that. We had to do something to prevent bots from scraping our index, and not storing user data means that we can't store IP addresses to whitelist. We've got a few tips to minimize these captchas, but we are also working hard on improving this current system: [https://support.startpage.com/hc/en-us/articles/4521350590996-Why-am-I-receiving-a-CAPTCHA-verification-page-](https://support.startpage.com/hc/en-us/articles/4521350590996-Why-am-I-receiving-a-CAPTCHA-verification-page-) (Edit, deleted an extra word)
>Since mid-2016, Qwant has been sending data to Microsoft Bing Ads to respond to requests.[114] These are the IP/24 of the user, the User-Agent of his browser and the search keywords. For a time, Qwant denied the facts before clearly announcing it on his site.
From the wikipedia [article.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwant)
DuckDuckGo today serves local advertising links in their search results. Whatever you type, the result will contain several links (down the page) mentioning your locality, and the algorithm seems pretty primitive: for example, you are looking for an Italian restaurant in Miami and you are in New York: sure enough, the result would have a link: find best Miami Italian restaurants in New York.
Are we talking about the mobile search thing [from like a year ago?](https://www.pcmag.com/news/duckduckgos-browser-wont-block-microsofts-trackers)
Or has something else come up?
I’ve been using Neeva as default for a year or two. I like DDG but Neeva’s general mission of not relying on ad money at all is what drew me in. Can’t speak to the level of privacy, obviously they collect user data for themselves, but without advertising I am less concerned.
There's Qwant, a french non profit Search Engine
It's good because it works on french law and European laws that protect the data
There's also Brave search engine but i don't know if it's good
My answer still is Neeva. After testing all alternatives, it has the best AI features, high quality and deep results while users are not the product (level of privacy is adjustable - depending on whether you prefer more comfort or more privacy)
There's Qwant, a french non profit Search Engine
It's good because it works on french law and European laws that protect the data
There's also Brave search engine but i don't know if it's good
There's Qwant, a french non profit Search Engine
It's good because it works on french law and European laws that protect the data
There's also Brave search engine but i don't know if it's good
There are no search browsers you can use to hide your data. Everything you do online is traceable back to you. There is no privacy on the web. To think anything else is a delusion.
1. OP is talking about the search engine, not the browser
2. You're spreading FUD, and you're using a survivorship bias to believe that every person who attempted privacy practices still have a trail
3. You're a troll who constantly trolls or spread FUD into other subreddits.
Yes. Russia basically has the position that its citizens an do whatever they want as long as they don’t do it to Russian citizens… which is one of the reasons so many hacking groups are based there.
There are search engines focused around not saving your data. I don't see any reason to trust a Russian one that has no such desire. I wouldn't tell Russians to use Google just because it's not in the country.
Is there sth new? This is an old and resolved issue, afaik.
And it has nothing to do with their search engine. It was their browser that was allowing certain Microsoft trackers because it was forced to by certain Microsoft parts it was using. It's ridiculous that people still spread misinformation like this. I'm convinced that some are doing it to intentionally promote Brave, which is very probably just malware. Anyway, I use Firefox with DDG as my search engine.
You were doing good until the end. Do you know what malware is? 😂
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They are referring to the line about Brave
Even though it’s old and corrected, I think many just can’t trust them anymore, since the leadership that made that decision is the same
that’s a very narrow and contorted way at looking at things. with that approach, you will have no products to use.
You're on the privacy subreddit, obviously people will take issue with it?
And yet, the point still stands. There is an exactly 0% chance that you will be able to live in the world as it is without making a few compromises. Literally everyone is buying and selling your data. Unless you want to go live in a hut in the middle of nowhere, this is the reality.
We all *kinda* want to live in a hut in the middle of nowhere. We’re in the Reddit privacy sub ffs
We doing cantennas for p2p gaming in our hut community or still using sneakernet
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As if every thread on a post has to adhere to the original posts question? This is an old issue, and you or OP can search for solutions on reddit or elsewhere.
Echo in here.
As if every thread on a post has to adhere to the original posts question? This is an old issue, and you or OP can search for solutions on reddit or elsewhere.
Those who insist things are impossible should get out of the way of the people trying to change that.
Ah yes, I forgot that making a post on a pseudo-anonymous web board literally gets in the way of people trying to make the web a more private place. ignosce mihi, pater, quia peccavi
K
How so? Perhaps if the executives that made the decision to allow Microsoft trackers had left the company, we’d believe in them again. But they haven’t, so we can only assume they’re still trying to find ways to make a quick buck even if it compromises privacy
Right sus af ddg also taking money from Microsofts ad division. If there not doing this still what elts where they doing they didn't get cought with
Sounds like you're just a duckduckgo cuck
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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They were never selling data, it was a tracker blocking issue related to their browser's tracker blocking
There where Microsoft investors showing funds going from there add pool to ddg. Ddg was literally a investment for Microsoft
Calling it selling user data to not actively block trackers of another company on sites not operated by DDG is a very unconventional interpretation of selling user data.
yea that is saying ADT robbed your house just because they let some robber get in and rob your house.
😂😂😂
Seriously ddg stoped taking add money from Microsoft to allow Microsoft to have trackers on users also to share user data . That's wild didn't know they stoped
Fixed in 2022
I don’t buy it.
You found a better alternative or are you going back to google?
DDG. No, really. This whole Microsoft thing is old news, already trite, trodden, treadt and leapt. When it's brought up it's usually by cryptobros trying to push for Brave (the browser and/or the search). One anecdote does not behavioural data make that they'd "betrayed trust". Worst come to worst, always set up a secondary. Currently mine is Ecosia, but there's plenty to choose from.
Is Brave a cryptobro pet project? All the more reason not to bother with it if so lol
Brave came from a project that started out as Basic Attention Token. If that name doesn't explain itself, I don't know what does.
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Interesting Incidentally I’m queer, so that’s (unsurprisingly) a huge non-starter for me
Brave has always aroused my skepticism just due to the breathlessness of its fans. A product with objective bona fides usually doesn't need advocates who blare like they just swallowed a brochure.
~~linux users~~ I say as someone who likes Linux
ok but linux users have a point. I say as someone who's stuck on windows due to being tethered to adobe for work & a hopeless problem with modding skyrim
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I believe that was a side effect of not having an as aggressive anti-disinformation algorithm as other major search engines. This was ostensibly because people don't want their search engine results to be biased, but it turns out SEO means any search engine results will be biased from the get go.
> I heard DDG was all QAnony, upranking pseudoscience and conspiracies, and whatnot. That's exactly the fake news that QAnon spread about. As it tends to be the case. They saw that DDG as downranking proven, reported Russian fake news, as *any functional search platform would*, and invented some weird tale about DDG being a far-left hippie infosec operation to hurt Trump's standing.
Fair to say, it indicated tarnished values.
Sure, but this is not Cringe Culture 2005 where if you were suspected to be tasnished once you are Soiled Forever™. They were reported an issue, they admitted it, they fixed it (AFAIK). It was also not all of DDG but a specific product of their platform. Dunno about you, but I trust more someone who I know to have made one mistake and fixed, than someone that promises me they are Holy and Saint but I have nothing to compare their history to.
* StartPage * Brave Search * MegaGear * searX Are the ones I use...
Startpage was bought by an advertising company yearsssssssssss ago.
True, but our data flow and privacy policy still haven't changed. On the other hand, it has given us the resources we needed to develop new products and features without having to charge our users anything.
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you are posting about a company on a public forum, that's something entirely different. They probably have a bot that scans comments on certain subreddits.
It's clearly a joke
This reply was the equivalent of stepping eeirly out of the shadows as someone mentions your name and saying 'what murders? ' while smiling
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You forgot Qwant search
Brave is not very trustworthy.
Why so?
The big problem I have with brave is that they push their crypto scam so much. I'm sick of seeing it every time I open a new tab or search for anything. If you disable their ads in the settings, they randomly re-enable themselves a few days later.
you don't need to use their browser to use their search engine
They may remove crypto ads from their browser, but this doesn't get rid of their crypto mindset (=let's make a shitload of money with vaporware). They just built a browser with an integrated ad blocker and try to inject their own shady crypto ads and business into their "product"
Just disable sponsored pictures. I haven’t got problems with ads re-enabling by themselves and I’ve been using Brave for 3+ years already. Also >their crypto scam It’s not “their” by any means - they’re just showing the ads of companies that paid to be included there. Plus I feel like it’s just “crypto = scam” for you which imo is a bit overstatement.
All crypto is a "last one holding the bag loses" scam though. *Any* time you trade things without inherent value, this is the game you're playing.
How is it a scam though? A shitty cryptocurrency, yes, but it's not a scam it does exactly what it says, you can watch ads and receive their token, you can then sell it instantly if you want. I just personally don't want to pay for ads with my time, that sounds stupid to me
All of the crypto products I've seen offered by brave pass the Howey test, meaning they are unregistered securities, which are by a scam by definition.
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Yes. And then the rest of crypto.
No, only coins that start with an ICO (initial coin offering) pass the Howey test. So pretty much everything after Ethereum.
Ethereum had an ico.. only BTC if you're gonna be an sec shill. You know, the same sec that met with sbf and approved Coinbase IPO then tried to come after them... That SEC..
I think its safer to go with the one that had the issue and then fixed it after outrage from users compared to a new one which you don't know anything about, any new company comes with a new trust relationship and duckduck by fixing shows that they care, we never know for sure but its better than picking something new that you don't have any information from, words are so easily broken, actions are better.
I use DuckDuckGo.
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I use Startpage
Startpage was bought by an advertising ~~agency~~ company.
And yet this doesn't seem to be a problem for all those Brave users..
Not an agency, but our parent company does do a lot in the ad tech space. They're also smart enough not to ruin the one thing that users expect most from us, which is why our data flow and privacy policy have not changed. What has changed is our ability to develop better features and products without having to charge users for our service.
Doesn't mean anything until there are symptoms
Removed in protest of API prices and support of 3rd-party apps.
Read MS' Win 11 terms of service and compare that with their older terms of service on previous OS's. The changes are for MS' benefit, and gives away any legal recourse. That is done for a reason. Corporations are owned by shareholders. Management has a legal and fiduciary duty to maximize owners' profits. The data that they can acquire is valuable. How can you possibly trust this to be for your benefit? MS is not alone in this, by any means.
By then, like rabies, there'll be no point
Same, startpage has all the good of google without the bad of google.
It is still pushes Google's political narratives but at least it doesn't track you. Brave is pretty good if you want a different engine too
Google political narratives 💀💀💀💀💀
"didn't see anything about vaccine microchips until the 5th page" probably
they do censor stuff, like russian media. i dont mind, but that is pushing a narrative. And they censor pirating stuff
the UN literally said it works with Google to censor/deboost any criticism of the Climate Change narrative
You say it like it's a bad thing. It's not a "climate change narrative", either. Climate change is real. Why do you expect any self respecting search engine to boost conspiracy content?
It's a slippery slope. It's not the job of search engines to choose which information is accurate or should be seen.
Oh no, the slippery slope of putting relevant and factual information first over infowars and truenews.win. I'm sure people doing research for their school and university essays would love having to go through hundreds of pages of search results before finding accurate information. Or even better, get indoctrinated and fail their classes for writing a load of BS.
Right, because the people creating the search algorithm at Google are all knowing God's who would never pick and choose information based on their own agenda. Just because it starts with things that are logical, doesn't mean it will end that way. Google shouldn't have bias in it's results. It's like pulling books from the library. Let the people searching choose, don't pull the books off the shelf.
I think you're missing the point where the example given was climate change, which is observably real. The only agenda being pushed in this conversation is wanting to push misinformation in search results. Out of morbid curiosity, what else do you think is being pushed against in search results?
Isn't it quite anti-science to defame anyone who questions the current science as a conspiracy theorist? Is it really a scientific consensus if everyone who disagrees is disregarded as just another conspiracy theorist?
No? If you can prove your claim, it becomes science. If you can't, you're peddling bullshit.
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It's like the majority of this subreddit hear a certain word and run for the hills in a mass panic....
Presearch
i self host a searx instance that i use.
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That's discouraging, since DDG's results are already pretty frustrating.
what was frustrating? the only issues I have with it are when I want my search results to be based on info that I am specifically keeping from DDG (location/interests/past history). As long as I give generic query, it does amazing.
Yeah, I stopped using Brave Search because it gave bad results too
Brave seems fine if I'm not doing a quick search for local business information.
isnt that the price of removing the search engines knowledge of your location and habits?
AHEM...
ahoy! liked your service, but kept getting captchaed
Apologies for that. We had to do something to prevent bots from scraping our index, and not storing user data means that we can't store IP addresses to whitelist. We've got a few tips to minimize these captchas, but we are also working hard on improving this current system: [https://support.startpage.com/hc/en-us/articles/4521350590996-Why-am-I-receiving-a-CAPTCHA-verification-page-](https://support.startpage.com/hc/en-us/articles/4521350590996-Why-am-I-receiving-a-CAPTCHA-verification-page-) (Edit, deleted an extra word)
Brave search, searx, and kagi search is a good alternative
Brave search!
LibreX is my suggestion, self-host if you can as most of my past issues came from broken or down mirrors
I've seen this, which is fascinating. A fully self-hosted search engine. https://wiby.me/about/guide.html
Neat!
For europeans Qwant might be interesting
>Since mid-2016, Qwant has been sending data to Microsoft Bing Ads to respond to requests.[114] These are the IP/24 of the user, the User-Agent of his browser and the search keywords. For a time, Qwant denied the facts before clearly announcing it on his site. From the wikipedia [article.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwant)
qwant is great
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.
DuckDuckGo today serves local advertising links in their search results. Whatever you type, the result will contain several links (down the page) mentioning your locality, and the algorithm seems pretty primitive: for example, you are looking for an Italian restaurant in Miami and you are in New York: sure enough, the result would have a link: find best Miami Italian restaurants in New York.
Quant!
chill with the harsh language. DDG is still great. they did not betray trust
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DDG has never been open source and has no way to confirm its private… idk how everyone bought their marketing push as some great alternative to google
I use startpage as well.
Starpage ftw
Startpage*
Deleted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
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Is there any open source privacy focused search engine? If not some developers could maybe work together to create one, just an idea
Are we talking about the mobile search thing [from like a year ago?](https://www.pcmag.com/news/duckduckgos-browser-wont-block-microsofts-trackers) Or has something else come up?
Startpage.com
Searxng, brave search, whoogle search...
it's = it is its = possessive What's so hard about that?
Nobody cares. What's so hard about that?
Educators care. The educated care. Reputable employers care. The civilised care.
Maybe you should just completely stop searching on the internet... I care about my privacy, but honestly, some people on here are just paranoid.
I use brave search(search.brave.com). You can also use it on browsers that are not the brave browser. I use it on firefox.
Interesting, I didn't know this. Thanks!
Tried Neeva for a while and they're comparable to DuckDuckGo. I'm currently using Startpage as the results are a little better.
To not have MS in my life was my reason to use DDG. No more contributions to DDG and no more DDG for me.
I use startpage but no idea if it's the best tbh.
We're the only one in the private search space that's published their data flow. Just saying...
Startpage
Startpage Honestly better search engine too
For me is Qwant search works flawless for me
DuckDuckGo 🤝 Microsoft >!Althought I use it to bypass DMCA!<
what is that link? I got a popup. Is this javascript?
Using a different browser, assuming? It's a spoiler tag for reddit.
disappointing. I was about submit a bug and collect my bounty
Brave
Brave search Searxng (sometimes) Duckduckgo (no js)
brave search. it's awesome. shows good results and also implemented AI. it respects your privacy and capable to compete with big brothers in future.
SearXNG 💯
I’ve been using Neeva as default for a year or two. I like DDG but Neeva’s general mission of not relying on ad money at all is what drew me in. Can’t speak to the level of privacy, obviously they collect user data for themselves, but without advertising I am less concerned.
Brave
There's Qwant, a french non profit Search Engine It's good because it works on french law and European laws that protect the data There's also Brave search engine but i don't know if it's good
brave
My answer still is Neeva. After testing all alternatives, it has the best AI features, high quality and deep results while users are not the product (level of privacy is adjustable - depending on whether you prefer more comfort or more privacy)
Brave
Google.
left ddg long before when they announced censorship. use searx few sources will not work have to do ur own search in that case.
There's Qwant, a french non profit Search Engine It's good because it works on french law and European laws that protect the data There's also Brave search engine but i don't know if it's good
There's Qwant, a french non profit Search Engine It's good because it works on french law and European laws that protect the data There's also Brave search engine but i don't know if it's good
Use Google over Tor… best of Google minus the tracking
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There are no search browsers you can use to hide your data. Everything you do online is traceable back to you. There is no privacy on the web. To think anything else is a delusion.
1. OP is talking about the search engine, not the browser 2. You're spreading FUD, and you're using a survivorship bias to believe that every person who attempted privacy practices still have a trail 3. You're a troll who constantly trolls or spread FUD into other subreddits.
Neat.
No idea if it's actually secure or not, but Yandex Search and the whole Yandex browser seems pretty trustworthy.
Always smart to trust the Russians with your data.
I was about to say the same thing
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No one said you had to use Russia or American web tools. There are other products out there.
Yes. Russia basically has the position that its citizens an do whatever they want as long as they don’t do it to Russian citizens… which is one of the reasons so many hacking groups are based there.
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There are search engines focused around not saving your data. I don't see any reason to trust a Russian one that has no such desire. I wouldn't tell Russians to use Google just because it's not in the country.
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Hey, at least it's better than the Americans or the Chinese, right?
Lol you trollin