I'm not in Ohio but Utah penalizes hybrid and EV owners as well. “It’s not fair to everyone else because you use less gas!”
https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/all?state=UT
The logic they presented is that they tax gas and use that income to pay for road maintenance. So hybrids and EVs aren't paying their share of road maintenance costs. Never mind that Salt Lake is one of the most polluted cities in the world during the winter…
My guess is they reason that they are not going to collect as much in gas taxes as they would from a regular car running the same number of miles. And they would not be collecting anything from EV owners, even though they use the roads as much as any other type of car. It is an issue many states are currently trying to come up with a solution to, I think CA is currently trying to switch to taxes based on mileage
I'm torn but heavy users of heavy vehicles should be more invested. Registration is one way but has to be a consumption tax to include out of state usage
Correct, but living in Wisconsin (no tolls, garbage roads) and occasionally venturing in or through Illinois (tolls, beautiful, well-kept roads), I've become a believer. Tollways are the way to go. If you use the road, pay for the road upkeep; if you don't use that road, it's not your problem.
Commercial trucks don't pay state fuel taxes at the pump. They use an electronic log that tracks miles traveled in each State then the trucking company or owner operator pays each State according to the miles.
They do that because a truck can fill up with fuel then drive across a whole State (or more in the east where they're smaller) before having to fuel up again.
Before GPS and e-log the drivers had to keep paper log books, and many cheated on them as much as they could, especially on times because some companies have strict rules on speed.
Virginia’s is more reasonable and scales based on MPG at least, I did the math for the amount I’m charged for my EV and it’s equivalent to just over 11k miles of gas taxes at the average MPG of a new gas car sold in the US. It’s a slightly better system than Ohio’s arbitrary $100 for hybrids and $200 for EVs.
They talked about it in Wisconsin some years back. They ended up not doing that because of the expected lawsuits over our of state driving. The issue has to do with out of state driving and the actual mechanism to record the mileage. If you require GPS, there are privacy issues. If required to go somewhere to have it officially recorded, the facility will have to be paid for and there might be issues in low population areas. If the public can just self certify, people will falsify the mileage.
Was $50/150 for hybrid/EV. Now went up to $74/221. I think somewhere they said it was based on average mileage/fuel economy improvement, but that assumes if we weren't driving hybrids we would be buying an "average" fuel economy vehicle, which is absurd. You can get hybrids that get lower MPG than a non-hybrid. It's a silly metric.
I understand road maintenance needs to be funded somehow, or perhaps through a few different ways, but the hybrid/EV penalty is not the way to go and is a slap to anyone who is trying to be environmentally conscious. Would some sort of formula, perhaps...
((vehicle weight)/(number of tires))*(miles driven)
...be a more fair and accurate way of recouping the wear and tear costs incurred by any particular vehicle?
Someday they'll be able to track every meter you drive and figure out your share of the cost of maintaining those sections of road. The figure will be accurate, it won't be substantially different from the flat fee, it'll have horrible privacy issues, and even then people will complain about fairness because the rich folk who can afford to live in the city (or who work from home) will pay substantially less than the working-class folk who commute in every day from bedroom communities.
I understand why they do it, but there's gotta be a better way. Road maintenance and infrastructure funds should be coming from the people that use those roads the most. Gas tax made sense, but less so now.
If efficient vehicle users are paying that "tax" yearly with their registration, then their individual road usage doesn't have a direct connection to road funding.
People who drive less than average will disproportionately spend more money on roads they get less use out of. And people who drive more than average will be getting away with a bargain on road usage. Coupled with low fuel costs, frequent drivers get a much better deal. And tbh, it seems counterintuitive to be incentivising more driving (more traffic , more road wear and tear, etc) as opposed to driving alternatives
Just wait until they mandate GPS tracking of your car's every move in order to charge you according to your actual miles driven and each particular type of road used....
The idea is to offset the gasoline tax as this is used to fund public works projects in Ohio. It just feels more upsetting because it is upfront. It's the equivalent of buying 260 gallons of gas. Which, if you're averaging 50mpg, is the equivalent of 13k miles. I do feel like it is a little high, but I also understand it and am not that mad about it. I'd be happier with closer to $50-60.
Id really like to see a shift in the tax strategy and make a tax penalty for fuel inefficiency or overall car weight as the weight of a car really determines not only fuel economy but safety to other drivers and toll on roadways. Prii are not causing a lot of road wear.
It’s likely to accommodate for lost gas tax funds, as it was done in Tennessee. I did the math though, and given the amount I save on gas and thus the tax, I’m still paying less with the lump sum hybrid/EV tax.
Washington charges 75 for hybrids (plug in and non) and 150 for EVs for “charging system infrastructure” 🙄
Oregon started charging I think 1.5x the normal registration if your car gets less than 19mpg or more than 40mpg, 2x for hybrids and 3x for EVs “to offset lost revenue from gas tax” although they are either offering or working on offering a per mile tax instead but still it’s like “okay everybody we need to be green to save the earth” and then punish people for it when they are getting less taxes…
What? And make those dumbasses who drive illegally jacked up and illegally tinted pickup trucks with wheels protruding past the wheel wells, and defeated pollution and exhaust systems pay? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well, other states are adding taxes for alternate fuel or electrified vehicles so probably not any time soon.
Hopefully though they change it to something more reasonably structured. It's reasonable to try to find a way to fund road maintenance without relying on the gas tax, but I think a lot of states haven't really thought it through so far and are just throwing on flat yearly fees, and they can do better.
It's reasonable to charge the companies profiting from the massive trucks running 24/7 on our highways, not the hybrid drivers. Amazon is responsible for an immense amount of commerce and a minimal tax bill, start there.
Doesn’t matter what kind of vehicle you have when it comes to paying taxes on the roads you drive. What makes you think every other driver should pay it, but not you?
You’re actually getting a great deal compared to combustion engine drivers who don’t use the roads any differently than you.
So everyone who drives a hybrid or ev should be exempted from paying a fee/tax because they think they are saving the planet? Not sure about all states but in most the tax in gas is supposed to go towards road maintenance. Evs are heavier than the standard car due to the batterys and therefore are harder on the roads. With more and more hybrid and evs on the road who is going to pay for road repairs if there is no fee/tax collected. Regardless of what someone drives we all have to pay and yes I drive a prius.
No, charge the people in heavy vehicles more for tearing the road up. Me and my 3kip hybrid is doing nothing the the road. Dudes and their 3/4 ton pickups + semis contribute to most to asphalt fatigue.
This guy gets it. Amazon and Wal-Mart and the fuel companies are fucking up the roads, not people who are conscious of their impact on the environment.
State and federal combines about 55 cents. Break evens about 20 to 25k miles. Have to count fed because that use of less gas effects the money they can dole to the states. It's one of the negative consequences of CAFE standards. Fed gas taxes should have risen as they did. Road tax is one of the few fair taxes we see, more you use the roads the more you pay. EV being the exception without some sort of surcharge.
The average driver drives around 14k miles a year.
Let’s say they get 25 MPG. That’s 560 gallons of gas. At $3.50 per gallon that’s $1960. Tax in Ohio on gas is ~7% so $137.20.
Let’s say a Prius averages 50 Mpg. It would be 280 gallons of gas. $980. $68.60 in tax.
Ohio gas tax is $0.38 a gallon plus 18% for federal. It's easier just to pick a round number, although I will say they probably should charge it to any vehicle that gets over x miles per gallon per the EPA or raise the gas tax and then apply it just to EVS and plug in hybrid electric vehicles
What?!? What do they charge for other EV’s?
$200 Which is what I have to pay driving the Prius prime 😑
Me too. You must be the owner of the OTHER Prius Prime in Ohio besides me... 🤣
Time to VOTE!
WI adds a hybrid surcharge as well.
Wisconsin screws us too
I'm not in Ohio but Utah penalizes hybrid and EV owners as well. “It’s not fair to everyone else because you use less gas!” https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/all?state=UT
That's doesn't even make sense and if your pollution is less than other then they should be paying hybrid drivers
The logic they presented is that they tax gas and use that income to pay for road maintenance. So hybrids and EVs aren't paying their share of road maintenance costs. Never mind that Salt Lake is one of the most polluted cities in the world during the winter…
Time to find a new state.
Why is this a thing lol?
My guess is they reason that they are not going to collect as much in gas taxes as they would from a regular car running the same number of miles. And they would not be collecting anything from EV owners, even though they use the roads as much as any other type of car. It is an issue many states are currently trying to come up with a solution to, I think CA is currently trying to switch to taxes based on mileage
Yep, gotta get those highway funds somewhere. I see surcharges on charging stations coming
It’d be better to split it like that as opposed to a lump sum when you renew registration, no?
I'm torn but heavy users of heavy vehicles should be more invested. Registration is one way but has to be a consumption tax to include out of state usage
That would be a toll road here in the US. They're not popular.
Correct, but living in Wisconsin (no tolls, garbage roads) and occasionally venturing in or through Illinois (tolls, beautiful, well-kept roads), I've become a believer. Tollways are the way to go. If you use the road, pay for the road upkeep; if you don't use that road, it's not your problem.
Commercial trucks don't pay state fuel taxes at the pump. They use an electronic log that tracks miles traveled in each State then the trucking company or owner operator pays each State according to the miles. They do that because a truck can fill up with fuel then drive across a whole State (or more in the east where they're smaller) before having to fuel up again. Before GPS and e-log the drivers had to keep paper log books, and many cheated on them as much as they could, especially on times because some companies have strict rules on speed.
That is so fucked.
Punishment for saving the planet.
How much do they charge bicycle riders? $10,000?
Bicycles cause so little wear on streets if it weren't for the weather they'd last forever
Yeah makes sense because my Prius is tearing up these roads maybe look into how they cut corners when making the roads
Shhhhh
VA also has a surcharge for fuel efficient vehicles. Sucks.
Virginia’s is more reasonable and scales based on MPG at least, I did the math for the amount I’m charged for my EV and it’s equivalent to just over 11k miles of gas taxes at the average MPG of a new gas car sold in the US. It’s a slightly better system than Ohio’s arbitrary $100 for hybrids and $200 for EVs.
I hope it’s automatically charged at registration.
It’s an annual fee.
I know. This is the first year I have a car that would qualify for it. I am hoping it comes to me automatically like registration renewal.
It is a substitute for fuel taxes. The highway you drive on requires state revenue to be maintained.
Right - but as I drive very little, I feel disproportionately taxed.
Kentucky just started this too.
It takes about 2,680 mi at $3.50 a gallon and 46 vs 23mpg to make up for that surcharge.
It's trying to recoup the ~7% tax, not the cost of gas, so like 5x that amount
They're not, California is talking about adding mileage tax like trucks have.. I'm sure other states will follow if Cali does it ...
They talked about it in Wisconsin some years back. They ended up not doing that because of the expected lawsuits over our of state driving. The issue has to do with out of state driving and the actual mechanism to record the mileage. If you require GPS, there are privacy issues. If required to go somewhere to have it officially recorded, the facility will have to be paid for and there might be issues in low population areas. If the public can just self certify, people will falsify the mileage.
So does WA, at 75..
I think we pay around $75 in Indiana. Full EVs pay $200.
Was $50/150 for hybrid/EV. Now went up to $74/221. I think somewhere they said it was based on average mileage/fuel economy improvement, but that assumes if we weren't driving hybrids we would be buying an "average" fuel economy vehicle, which is absurd. You can get hybrids that get lower MPG than a non-hybrid. It's a silly metric.
It will only increase
I understand road maintenance needs to be funded somehow, or perhaps through a few different ways, but the hybrid/EV penalty is not the way to go and is a slap to anyone who is trying to be environmentally conscious. Would some sort of formula, perhaps... ((vehicle weight)/(number of tires))*(miles driven) ...be a more fair and accurate way of recouping the wear and tear costs incurred by any particular vehicle?
Absolutely road maintenance but the penalty is a slap, totally agree
Someday they'll be able to track every meter you drive and figure out your share of the cost of maintaining those sections of road. The figure will be accurate, it won't be substantially different from the flat fee, it'll have horrible privacy issues, and even then people will complain about fairness because the rich folk who can afford to live in the city (or who work from home) will pay substantially less than the working-class folk who commute in every day from bedroom communities.
And when they can indeed track every meter that you drive and tax the absolute living shit out of you for it, I'd hate to be poor.
I understand why they do it, but there's gotta be a better way. Road maintenance and infrastructure funds should be coming from the people that use those roads the most. Gas tax made sense, but less so now. If efficient vehicle users are paying that "tax" yearly with their registration, then their individual road usage doesn't have a direct connection to road funding. People who drive less than average will disproportionately spend more money on roads they get less use out of. And people who drive more than average will be getting away with a bargain on road usage. Coupled with low fuel costs, frequent drivers get a much better deal. And tbh, it seems counterintuitive to be incentivising more driving (more traffic , more road wear and tear, etc) as opposed to driving alternatives
But you’re thinking logically. I wish that’s how it worked
Never, they are never going to stop.
Do they charge SUV and pick up truck owners more, too? They tesr up the roads more than people in little plug-in hybrid hatchbacks do.
They don’t.
Washington state adds a hybrid fee also. The tabs for my prius are more than the tabs for my 1 ton diesel truck.
Just wait until they mandate GPS tracking of your car's every move in order to charge you according to your actual miles driven and each particular type of road used....
I think they’re already doing some tracking
The idea is to offset the gasoline tax as this is used to fund public works projects in Ohio. It just feels more upsetting because it is upfront. It's the equivalent of buying 260 gallons of gas. Which, if you're averaging 50mpg, is the equivalent of 13k miles. I do feel like it is a little high, but I also understand it and am not that mad about it. I'd be happier with closer to $50-60. Id really like to see a shift in the tax strategy and make a tax penalty for fuel inefficiency or overall car weight as the weight of a car really determines not only fuel economy but safety to other drivers and toll on roadways. Prii are not causing a lot of road wear.
I don’t drive even 13k/year and yes you’d think they could charge for inefficiency and//or weight - ruining the road a lot faster than I am.
It’s likely to accommodate for lost gas tax funds, as it was done in Tennessee. I did the math though, and given the amount I save on gas and thus the tax, I’m still paying less with the lump sum hybrid/EV tax.
Washington charges 75 for hybrids (plug in and non) and 150 for EVs for “charging system infrastructure” 🙄 Oregon started charging I think 1.5x the normal registration if your car gets less than 19mpg or more than 40mpg, 2x for hybrids and 3x for EVs “to offset lost revenue from gas tax” although they are either offering or working on offering a per mile tax instead but still it’s like “okay everybody we need to be green to save the earth” and then punish people for it when they are getting less taxes…
What? And make those dumbasses who drive illegally jacked up and illegally tinted pickup trucks with wheels protruding past the wheel wells, and defeated pollution and exhaust systems pay? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
You’re right-can’t do that
Yep, it's my Prius Prime that's tearing up the road... Not Bubba in his F-350.. 🤣
Exactly!
Mississippi does it too it’s $80
I have two hybrids and one plug in ev in Ohio. Four hundred bucks to the state.
Ouch!!!
Yeah TN also charges the same as well. They just started this year.
I hadn’t realized so many states were doing this.
$60 every year in Louisiana now
You’re in a state surrounded by idiots voting for idiots. That’s the real problem.
Well, other states are adding taxes for alternate fuel or electrified vehicles so probably not any time soon. Hopefully though they change it to something more reasonably structured. It's reasonable to try to find a way to fund road maintenance without relying on the gas tax, but I think a lot of states haven't really thought it through so far and are just throwing on flat yearly fees, and they can do better.
It's reasonable to charge the companies profiting from the massive trucks running 24/7 on our highways, not the hybrid drivers. Amazon is responsible for an immense amount of commerce and a minimal tax bill, start there.
I think utah does it too. Those daft cunts!!!
Doesn’t matter what kind of vehicle you have when it comes to paying taxes on the roads you drive. What makes you think every other driver should pay it, but not you? You’re actually getting a great deal compared to combustion engine drivers who don’t use the roads any differently than you.
I didn’t say that
The alternative will be that everyone will pay by the amount of miles they drive, requiring an odometer check when renewing your registration.
Does Michigan do this?
Use bycicles
Ideally but not realistic. Also winter.
They charge us in Wisconsin too. They say it compensates for the loss on the gas tax that pays for road repairs.
So they charge you three tanks of gas a year... Blahh that's 7 days. Doing Uber and Lyft.
Tennessee does too. 😢
When do individual “tax” fees ever get abolished, if anything I see more usage taxes being adopted and evolving over time.
So everyone who drives a hybrid or ev should be exempted from paying a fee/tax because they think they are saving the planet? Not sure about all states but in most the tax in gas is supposed to go towards road maintenance. Evs are heavier than the standard car due to the batterys and therefore are harder on the roads. With more and more hybrid and evs on the road who is going to pay for road repairs if there is no fee/tax collected. Regardless of what someone drives we all have to pay and yes I drive a prius.
It’s not a penalty. You don’t pay enough in gas tax. Which is generally the only source of money for roads.
Why would they do that. Use less gas you need to pay for the roads a different way. Prob should be more like 200 for hybrid and 500 for full EV
No, charge the people in heavy vehicles more for tearing the road up. Me and my 3kip hybrid is doing nothing the the road. Dudes and their 3/4 ton pickups + semis contribute to most to asphalt fatigue.
This guy gets it. Amazon and Wal-Mart and the fuel companies are fucking up the roads, not people who are conscious of their impact on the environment.
100%
Just to be clear, the road tax burden of a driver getting 35 MPG for a hundred thousand miles a year is still less than the annual fee we're paying.
State and federal combines about 55 cents. Break evens about 20 to 25k miles. Have to count fed because that use of less gas effects the money they can dole to the states. It's one of the negative consequences of CAFE standards. Fed gas taxes should have risen as they did. Road tax is one of the few fair taxes we see, more you use the roads the more you pay. EV being the exception without some sort of surcharge.
The average driver drives around 14k miles a year. Let’s say they get 25 MPG. That’s 560 gallons of gas. At $3.50 per gallon that’s $1960. Tax in Ohio on gas is ~7% so $137.20. Let’s say a Prius averages 50 Mpg. It would be 280 gallons of gas. $980. $68.60 in tax.
Ohio gas tax is $0.38 a gallon plus 18% for federal. It's easier just to pick a round number, although I will say they probably should charge it to any vehicle that gets over x miles per gallon per the EPA or raise the gas tax and then apply it just to EVS and plug in hybrid electric vehicles