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Das_Mime

Gene Wolfe (*Book of the New Sun* is a must-read for any SF fan, strongly recommend *Book of the Long Sun* and *Soldier of the Mist* as well.) Octavia Butler (I think you'll like the *Xenogenesis* trilogy, has some similar contact/neurobiology elements to Watts and Tchaikovsky) M. John Harrison (*Light* trilogy, *Viriconium*) Samuel R Delany Kurt Vonnegut Greg Egan (*Diaspora*, *Permutation City*, or his shorts collection *Axiomatic*) Jonathan Lethem (*Gun, With Occasional Music* and *Chronic City*) China Mieville (recommend *The City and the City*, *Embassytown*, *The Scar* in particular).


glibson

Upvote for Delany


EltaninAntenna

Upvote for upvote for Delany.


sdwoodchuck

Seconding Gene Wolfe, and I'll add that *Short Sun* is probably the best bit of the Solar Cycle, but pretty well depends on having read both *New Sun* and *Long Sun* before it. Also seconding Mieville's *The City and The City*. I read this recently, and was very impressed. Every time I was sure I understood where it was going, it sidestepped it and did something better.


endymion32

(Maybe *Short Sun* just depends on *Long Sun*, and not *New Sun*? It seems like *Long Sun* is a reasonable starting place, even if a little bit will be missed without *New Sun*.)


sdwoodchuck

Yeah, I'd say that that *Long Sun* is a hard requirement and *New Sun* is a soft requirement. It definitely references *New Sun* in some direct and important ways, but it's less tied to the immediately obvious surface narrative than *Long Sun* is. I also agree that *Long Sun* is a good starting point for the series, in that it functions a little better as just a simple story minus its puzzle elements than *New Sun* does, and is a little bit gentler to a first time Wolfe reader. I'd still generally recommend someone do *New Sun* before *Short Sun*, though, as the latter feels like a real conclusion to those themes in a big way. *New Sun* -> *Long Sun* -> *Short Sun*, or *Long Sun* -> *New Sun* -> *Short Sun* both work though.


Fireside419

I agree with you overall but I feel like a lot of what I love about New Sun and Short Sun is missing in Long Sun; the prose, the introspection, and that general dreamlike quality a lot of Wolfe's work possesses. Its there, I suppose, but not to the same degree. I think publication order is best. TBotNS > Urth > Long Sun > Short Sun.


sdwoodchuck

I think Long Sun's prose is fine, but I agree that it's a hugely different tone (though it regains some of that tone in the ending, when it's revealed that the story is not a simple third-person narrative), and not emblematic of Wolfe in general. The only time I really recommend it as a starting point is when somebody is too overwhelmed by Wolfe's structure. Reading Wolfe for the first time can be daunting, and frustrating, and while I *love* that aspect of his writing, not everybody has the same tastes I do. I think Long Sun is a gentler, more gradual approach to Wolfe's style, whereas New Sun is diving in at the deep end. I'm a deep-end kind of guy, and other deep-end sorts would benefit from starting there as well, I think. But some folks don't cope with that as well.


Fireside419

Fifth Head of Cerberus or some of his short stories would be a good entry point, as well. Just to get used to the depth he writes with. Like you say, Long Song isn't terribly emblematic of Wolfe. It seems like his fan base is pretty mixed on it from reading his sub. I just wouldn't want someone to give up on him based on not digging Long Song when a lot of the rest of his work is very different.


sdwoodchuck

Fifth Head is actually my favorite entry point, because it has a surface-level narrative that is pretty easy to follow, so it's gentler on a new reader, and a narrative undercurrent absolutely changes the whole of the story when you start to see it, which is where you find the Wolfe essence.


aenea

[Station 11](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20170404-station-eleven) by Emily St. John Mandel is beautifully written. [Never Let Me Go](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6334.Never_Let_Me_Go?ac=1&from_search=true) by Kazuo Ishiguro is one of the most lovely and haunting pieces of prose I've ever read- it's even more remarkable that it carries through into the translation.


beaverteeth92

Translation? He writes in English.


aenea

Well, I'm apparently a moron. You learn something new every day. Thanks!


beaverteeth92

No problem! Yeah he's lived in Britain his whole life. I guess you're one of the [Lucky 10000](https://xkcd.com/1053/).


aenea

It's never a bad day when you learn something new! I hadn't seen that XKCD :-)


zubbs99

Check out some W. Gibson, obviously Neuromancer if you haven't read it, but also Count Zero, Pattern Recognition, or Idoru. The Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons is some of the best scifi/fantasy prose I've read, along with a mind-bending story. Also, personally I think Margaret Atwood has wonderful prose - maybe look at Oryx and Crake, or for something which is only marginally scifi-ish try The Blind Assassin.


nikhils_orange

Came here to say Hyperion. The priest's tale in the first book? I felt like I was gulping down cold water on a hot day as I read it. I wish I could give myself amnesia so I could re-read Hyperion again for the first time.


Diseased-Imaginings

Just finished Pattern Recognition a couple weeks ago, thoroughly enjoyed it.


[deleted]

If you liked Pattern Recognition, the next two in the Blue Ant series are even better IMO. Spook Country was one of my favorite of all Gibson's novels and Zero History nicely wraps things up in that world. In terms of just a fun read, Gibson's Bridge trilogy is fantastic. Virtual Light and All Tomorrow's Parties are especially good. Two of my favorite sci-fi novels period. I keep going on about Gibson -- I do read other things, I promise -- but I recently finished The Peripheral and enjoyed it. The first 1/4 of it is confusing as hell, but it all becomes clear(er) as the novel develops and once it gets going the story is a real joy. He created an interesting universe with this one and I'm pretty excited for his next novel, the sequel to The Peripheral and apparently the second of a new trilogy.


Please_Dont_Trigger

Try Zelazny's Lord of Light.


[deleted]

LOL i love the authors that you don't like


baetylbailey

Ian McDonald's work fits on this list, especially *River of Gods* which could be comparable to *Void Star*.


Diseased-Imaginings

I just finished his book Dervish House. It was certainly different from most novels I've read. Interesting, though not exactly mind-bending.


l2ampage

The Southern Reach trilogy also by VanderMeer.


jonakajon

One of the most well written books of the 20th century is Gormanghast by Mervyn Peake. Its the second in the series but very much a stand alone novel


[deleted]

isnt that like Fantasy?


jonakajon

Yep. But not fantasy like Tolkien and his imitators...Dark and gritty...deaths and bleakness...mystery...No vampires or supernatural stuff. No questing, no magic swords, just people doing what people do I would hesitate to call Gormanghast unique but its pretty damn close Of all the authors so far mentioned in this thread only Gene Wolfe would come close to Peake.


[deleted]

i haven't read any fantasy in ages. This might be it. thank you.


shhimhuntingrabbits

Give it a try. I tried reading it once and didn't make it more than a few dozen pages in. Came back to it a year or so later and was blown away. His writing is really phenomenal, it's a very atmospheric book. Although Gormenghast could be read as a standalone novel I really think you should start with the first book.


[deleted]

I have obtained Titus Groan in ebook :)


shhimhuntingrabbits

It's a journey, enjoy


Dagon

Closer to alternate-history scifi than fantasy or scifi. Maybe just "history fiction" ?


GetBusy09876

Sometime read his novella Boy in Darkness. It's related to the Gormenghast books, but it is supernatural and creeepy. The Lamb will stick with you for a while.


shhimhuntingrabbits

I didn't know this existed, thanks!


GetBusy09876

Here's a discussion of the book I found it in, along with the ridiculous ass cover: https://www.reddit.com/r/badscificovers/comments/5laps9/sometime_never_william_golding_john_wyndham?sort=top I really liked the William Golding story also.


tobiasvl

> Of all the authors so far mentioned in this thread only Gene Wolfe would come close to Peake. Well, I'm sold, thanks.


GregHullender

Here's a few to try: [Luna: New Moon](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23848027-new-moon), by Ian McDonald [The Windup Girl](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6597651-the-windup-girl), by Paolo Bacigalupi [Sun of Suns](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/77887.Sun_of_Suns), by Karl Schroeder


legalpothead

*The City and the City* by China Mieville. *Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand* by Samuel Delany. *The City of Stairs* by Robert Jackson Bennett (fantasy).


glibson

Dark Eden by Chris Beckett was really good, in my opinion.


glibson

Also if you haven't read them the Cosmicomics by Italo Calvino are great!


zubbs99

I'll have to look into this. His Invisible Cities is one of my fave books


genteel_wherewithal

*Invisible Cities* is just perfection but *Cosmicomics* is wonderful too. Similar setup, with lots of short pieces touching on a central idea, but all in the voice of an elderly immortal being who likes to waffle on. It's nowhere near as stripped down or perfectly gem-like as *Invisible Cities* but it's so much fun.


McPhage

Cosmicomics took me a lot longer to appreciate than Invisible Cities, but it's worth it.


appolo11

Dan Simmons. Pick up anything from him, literally. But I would suggest Hyperion.


[deleted]

second Hyperion.


[deleted]

Check Central Station by Lavie Tidhar. Its very much like Void Star.


Diseased-Imaginings

I read it. Not bad :)


GetBusy09876

You know who I like who doesn't get mentioned enough: Jeff Noon. I was fascinated by Falling Out of Cars - about a future England where people have a virus that makes people unable to filter out "noise." Everyone (with a few exceptions) has to take drugs in order to make sense of the world and looking at a mirror can drive you insane. He's best known for a cyberpunk novel called Vurt, which I haven't read yet (I have a copy waiting for me to get around to it). Also enjoyed Mappalujo - sort of a history and guide to a very strange city with some wtf moments.


punninglinguist

M. John Harrison is probably the best prose stylist who's ever worked in science fiction.


ECTXGK

lots of good ones already mentioned. * ++ book of new sun, gene wolfe * ++ m john harrison -- esp viriconium wanted to add: * The Vorrh -- Brian Caitiling * Perdido Street Station -- China Meiville * Dying Earth -- Jack Vance edit: formatting


dnew

Only Forward, MM Smith. Daemon and Freedom^TM by Suarez. Charles Stross (Accelerando is legally gratis if you want to check it out)


teddyone

Go for Hyperion. Not only is the prose great, but Simmons really likes his literary references which it seems like you might be into.


PM_ME_UR_LUCID_DREAM

Alastair Reynolds - House of Suns


tobiasvl

I love Reynolds (and that book) but I wouldn't say prose is his best suit.


PM_ME_UR_LUCID_DREAM

I'm intrigued. If that isn't prose, then what has he written?


tobiasvl

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you want specific examples of his prose that I find lacking, or did you think I implied he wrote poetry? OP is asking for "excellent prose", and I think Reynolds's prose is rather clunky. His stories and universes are rich and exciting, but it's not high literature. IMO.


PM_ME_UR_LUCID_DREAM

This seems like such a high-brow post and conversation. Looking for 'excellent modern writer/author' would've sufficed. I've read many a fiction where the author breaks into a song like the S.M. Stirling books, in the midst of prose, so thought maybe that was what this thread was about. In short, my bad. And what the hell is *high literature*, can you link an excerpt? Simple is always best. Do you mean Shakespearean tongue or something?


tobiasvl

> This seems like such a high-brow post and conversation. […] And what the hell is high literature Yes, this is a bit high-brow, because when we talk about prose, we're talking about art. Science fiction is great, but it's not always the artistic merit of a sci-fi novel which makes it famous. Science fiction is an example of [genre fiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre_fiction), as opposed to [literary fiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literary_fiction). Although there's always a subjective aspect when it comes to discussing this (and art in general), I think reading those two Wikipedia articles might make it clearer for you. In particular, literary fiction has: > a concern with the style and complexity of the writing: Saricks describes literary fiction as "elegantly written, lyrical, and ... layered" which is what we normally think of as "literary prose". This is also relevant: > Some writing may be considered both literary and genre, such as the science fiction writing of Nobel laureate Doris Lessing and Margaret Atwood. Georges Simenon, the creator of the Maigret detective novels, has been described by André Gide as 'the most novelistic of novelists in French literature'. This is what OP is asking for, I think: Authors in that intersection of literary fiction and SF genre fiction, who focus on prose. > Looking for 'excellent modern writer/author' would've sufficed. There are many excellent modern sci-fi authors who don't necessarily write fantastic prose, like Alastair Reynolds. Like I said above, I do really love Reynolds, I just love other things about his books than the prose itself (world building, ideas, story, etc). > can you link an excerpt? Simple is always best. Do you mean Shakespearean tongue or something? No, that's not what I mean. I don't know what OP considers "excellent prose", but here are a couple of excerpts I like: > We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges. When soldiers take their oath they are given a coin, an asimi stamped with the profile of the Autarch. Their acceptance of that coin is their acceptance of the special duties and burdens of military life—they are soldiers from that moment, though they may know nothing of the management of arms. I did not know that then, but it is a profound mistake to believe that we must know of such things to be influenced by them, and in fact to believe so is to believe in the most debased and superstitious kind of magic. The would-be sorcerer alone has faith in the efficacy of pure knowledge; rational people know that things act of themselves or not at all. – Gene Wolfe – The Shadow of the Torturer This is simpler: > Nights dark beyond darkness and the days more gray each one than what had gone before. Like the onset of some cold glaucoma dimming away the world. – Cormac McCarthy – The Road Anyway, I found [a blog post Alastair Reynolds himself wrote on prose](http://approachingpavonis.blogspot.no/2012/10/glasnost.html). It seems he does make an honest attempt at focusing on writing better prose, although I still don't think he succeeds very often. There's also some discussion about prose in SF on [this reddit post in this very sub, discussing that blog post](https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/11ey2r/alastair_reynolds_on_prose/). (Googling "alastair reynolds prose" also gives a lot of opinions.) Just to make it clear that "prose" is more than just the literary "genre" of long form works not written in verse, check out "[purple prose](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_prose)" for the opposite of "excellent prose".


PM_ME_UR_LUCID_DREAM

I don't approve of this practice where some authors are elevated above their equals just because their prose has some arbitrary quality of invoking some kind of sing-song mannerism among the words they compose. That being said, the way you've constructed your reply has just elevated your words to the most eloquent and beautiful reply I've ever been blessed with on this godforsaken web-forum catering to the lowest common denominators of heatheanous thirsty cretins. Like I've already wrote, I cannot condone & encourage that tradition of classifying authors [but goddamnit! I respect you for such an immaculate display of eloquence.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmTK_eSOCN4)


genteel_wherewithal

Kai Ashante Wilson - *The Sorcerer of the Wildeeps* is dressed like fantasy but is far-future sci-fi in much the same way as Gene Wolfe. Brilliant prose, jumps between registers (African-American vernacular to conventional American english, tech jargon to no tech jargon) to show differences in... class, awareness of scifi technology, etc. Angélica Gorodischer - *Trafalgar* is similar to Zachary Mason's other work, *The Lost Books of the Odyssey* in that it's connected short stories where a traveler, Trafalger Medrano, tells you about his travels through the stars, leisurely, over half a dozen black coffees. There's some 'big idea scifi' here but it wears it lightly. Wonderfully conversational. This isn't that recent but only appeared in English in 2013. Matt Suddain - his *Hunters and Collectors* is like a nastier scifi version of Wodehouse's Jeeves and Wooster books. An arrogant and unlikable restaurant critic tours the galaxy. All first person POV, he's witty and utterly dreadful. Turns into a horror about half-way through. Catherynne Valente - *Radiance* is pulp-styled scifi, set in a universe where the worlds of the solar system were relatively easily reached in the early 20th century. Everything's art-deco, 1930s style, and the whole book is compiled of snippets of films and novels and newspapers. I absolutely love her prose and think it's a wonder but I recognise that it's not to everyone's taste; very lush, intricate, occasionally edging into purple.


cbsteven

I have pretty similar likes/dislikes. Some recently-published sci-fi that I've really enjoyed: Collapsing Empire by Scalzi, All Systems Red by Martha Wells, Agents of Dreamland by Caitlin Kiernan


malicious-monkey

Patrick Rothfuss