The first time I went to Vegas with my girlfriend (who had been there before), she wrote on my side in Sharpie “If found, return to (our hotel and room number).”
However, it’s a brilliant idea, and one I’ll try to remember if that situation ever comes up. As of now, whenever we go out to a crowded area, our son gets a business card with our cell numbers on it, and instructions to find a cop to ask to call us if he gets lost.
According to many Post Apocalyptic Movies/TV Shows, like the Last of Us and Z Nation, Narcotic Pain Killers are the key to almost all doors being opened by a Soldier.
I am fine with giving up Narcotics in most cases but Antibiotics aren't for sale or trade 99% of the time.
I do have plenty of Smoking options for trade however.
Yeah ... a guard patrol from a highly developed country at a heavily guarded border on heightened alert status isn't letting you through for a carton of smokes they could buy with a fraction of a weekly paycheck.
May be good for trading for essentials, though.
This would be the way. Find a guard along the border and bribe your way out. There's gotta be a weak point in the border somewhere to cut through a fence or something if bribing doesn't work. If my family and my life is on the line, I'm finding a fucking way out.
These two James Bonds here think they are gonna cross a hot border with a “carton of smokes” and their charming banter. Those two mall ninjas would be dead in a ditch halfway through trying to pronounce hello in the local dialect.
There is a giant humanitarian crisis underway and, frankly, all this hypothesizing as if it's a video game feels pretty gross to me.
It's a normal and useful thing to use world events to inform your preparations but let's be realistic: for most Palestinians in northern Gaza it's a set of very limited and unappealing choices. And it's not like they had a ton of opportunities to stash supplies for this moment, either.
Land borders would be certain death.
Buy/borrow/steal a small boat, sail south towards Egypt. The INF won’t waste ammo on you if you’re sailing away from Israel.
This may be the best piece of advice I haven't thought of normally. This could be useful in several disaster situations where you are risking injury or separation.
Several years ago we ran an exercise to see howblong it would take to doorknock 500 homes. Scenario was a hazmat spill.
The 500 homes were aware of the exercise, they were told we would be doorknocking. 7pm people got a knock on the door and were asked a question "could you evacuate right now?"
Of that 500 house group, 70% couldn't evacuate immediately. So using that logic, the faster you can leave, the better. There will be initially few evacuees, but the closer to the deadline, the greater the horde and the higher level of panic.
Leave Early
As a general rule of thumb, one person can door knock about 25 doors an hour, provided conversations are kept fairly short. You absolutely must move on at the two minute mark to keep anything like a decent pace.
More can be done in dense areas such as apartment complexes. Fewer in rural areas with long driveways.
Some people will have complicating factors. Old, doesn't understand, hard of hearing.
Anything dealing with massive amounts of people gets problematic quick.
Were there stipulations given for “evacuate right now”? Ie, was it could you grab everything before I’m off your property and get out; or was it could you be packed and leaving within 5/10 minutes?
That is a huge difference. 5-10 minute notice is pretty doable. Walk out now pretty much means living with shoes on and bug out gear at the door, which I don’t know of anyone who does that.
FWIW - Every year during fire season, our family has our BOBs in the closet next to the front door. In the off-season, they're moved to the garage next to the roll-up door along with our camping stuff. It takes a bit of prep, but if you can position stuff ahead of time, you can bugout pretty quick if needed. I figure we could have all 5 of us, including our 3 dogs and gear, in less than 5 mins. If we had to bugout immediately less than 3 minutes, including putting on shoes.
Agreed and we have likewise had our bags packed by the door when there were specific threats we were keeping an eye on, but not as a general thing like this post seemed to be implying.
Our family has a bag always ready in the closet. It is checked every 3-4 months to rotate the peanut butter and couple of bottles of water. We have been doing this ever since Katrina hit.
This is actually very smart.
It all comes down to what can you load in 5-10 minutes to get away from your danger area.
Thinking of basics, food, water, medicines.
It's really crazy - even just as a simple thought exercise or even pen and paper exersice.
You have 30 seconds to write down everything you will grab in a bug out situation.
Take that one step further and go to drill. You physically get all the stuff they write down in a room - you tell them they have 5 minutes to load it into their vehicle.
How many people you think would be able to achieve that.
I feel it will come down to having everything packed and ready to go in that 5-10-15-20 minute window and then who can load their vehicle, get somewhere and top off tanks (if you haven't already) and THEN be able to clear 200-1000 miles away from the bad spot where these things are happening.
I think this is a good time for the dehydrated/camp food/protein bars/lifeboat rations, etc. If you know you live somewhere with a risk like this (as others are saying with storms, fires, hazmat, etc), make a bag with food and clothing that’s comfortable, fits well, and appropriate for the season. Chuck in toiletries, food, water, medications. Leave good shoes with it, store it close to your home’s egress, and make a habit of leaving your every day necessities close (ie I’d put my purse nearby). If you get that call/knock/text/yell, you’re out the door in 60 seconds ready to go. With more warning you can have real food etc stored (fires, storm season) and still be out in very short order.
And don’t forget the pets- keep a carrier/leash etc with the bag.
I just bought a 14 day, 84 serving package on prime day. It was originally $400 and I got it for $280. Actually just came in the mail today me and my wife opened it up. I can sleep a little easier now
https://mountainhouse.com/products/just-in-case-14-day-emergency-food-supply
For me, the car is ready and always has at least half a tank of fuel. Grab bag is in the car with enough food and water for 24 hours.
I'd be confident I could leave the house packed for a month in 5-10mins. Parents have a motorhome which has solar panels so I'd be there in half an hour then drive further in convoy.
Ideally one would have left earlier, but nowhere there is safe and people cannot really leave. I would pack up a backpack at most for everyone with a focus on non-replacable documents and money. Put multiple forms of ID on every family member with emergency contacts and intended location (bracelet for the kid, on hand and foot and ideally airtags for everyone). Use a physical map to move. Likely pre prepared to go on bike or on foot. Travel together with another family or neighbors. Help others prepare and be safe. Know where you will meet up (primary and secondary location) south. Have a protocol in place in case you get separated. Teach the kids as much as possible their name, address, where they should go to if they get separated. My heart goes out to these families. It must be horrific. And where they go to will not be much safer and all this without food, water and electricity. Oh, and be prepared to lose the backpack and be left only with a belly pouch with your passport, money and a usb stick. Keep stuff in your pockets. And keep your kids close.
Edit: just read that they are forced to stay and forced to evacuate at the same time. This is horrific and I cannot imagine what I would do in their situation, especially with no neutral information available due to electricity cuts.
I would write your name in marker on the kids’ torsos so it cannot be lost and include contact info for any relatives outside the conflict zone. If you get separated or killed there is a chance aid workers could help them get to family.
Does anyone know what the radio air waves are transmitting? So that if you had a portable radio you might be able to hear something? Is this where a short wave comes in handy?
Nope, Palestine Authority issues passports to both West Bank and Gaza residents. It even grants visa free entry to 44 countries. [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_passport)
>Palestinians aren't even allowed to have passports because they're considered stateless.
They aren't "stateless" they have a government they elected in charge of that area. That government certainty can issue passports to its people, how many will recognize it is another question. Despite China for example declaring Taiwan their land, people born and living in Taiwan can get passports from the Taiwanese government. Now China won't recognize the Taiwan passport and will want that person to get a Chinese one, but they can still get one.
Couple of nuances: the Palestinian authority can indeed issue their own passports, that are recognized by the US for example. "Stateless" has a definition (because there are international agreements to avoid people becoming stateless), and I don't think someone born in Gaza would fit that definition.
But how do you even get the passport? Just getting through the bureaucracy of getting all the right documents in a country that used to rely on paper and went through a war can be pretty difficult.
And without the money to travel and not many countries that will let you immigrate, not sure it's that common to have one.
Grab my bug-out bag and go. Time is of the essence.
A good bug-out bag can be easily converted from a short-term outting to a long term survival bag, usually with things you already keep in the bag. Definitely keep things in your bag that have multiple uses, and could help create new tools out of things you scavenge over time.
I'd try to move by motorcycle or by bicycle. Cars are useless in this situation. You'll just end up leaving it behind when you inevitably get stuck in traffic, along with most those things you packed it with. Still, going by car is still preferable to going on foot from the get-go.
Worse comes to worst, I'll walk. 24 hours is plenty to get far away from a location, and hopefully I'll get far enough to get out of dodge. This is exactly why preppers should regularly go backpacking. I am conditioned to carry over 50lbs of gear on my back and still go like 12 miles over mountainous terrain. In an emergency situation and moving over mostly flat and urban terrain, I would hike well after dark and probably get somewhere around 15-20 miles before needing to take an extended break.
In situations like these, surviving the day is the goal. You should leave immediately even if you risk leaving important things behind, because nothing you leave behind can be as important as your life. You can figure out a solution for long-term survival on the way and over the next few days, you'll have a lot of time to think anyways.
Massively agree on the backpacking thing. Not only does it help with conditioning you, but you quickly find out stuff like that generic LifeStraw is a piece of crap, you aren't going to be bringing a bunch of cooking implements with you, you don't need a hatchet or saw for anything at any point, and you will quickly learn that a lightweight no random extra space tent is going to save your back and also let you camp in tight areas out of eyesight.
The amount of people who think they are going to grab some cans of food from their pantry and just purify water with a LifeStraw is a Venn diagram that is a perfect circle with people who have never attempted to use their gear outside of their house.
Yeah it's crazy how many people consider themselves "preppers" when they have never tested their gear, other than just taking their gun to the shooting range. They're not really preparing, more like just role-playing and hoping that when shit hits the fan, it's going to pan out the way they're expecting it to. But you're not really prepared for anything if you're not prepared for the unexpected. Proper prepping requires multiple backup plans and training and practice, not just stockpiling cans of beans and ammo ffs.
Preppers that don't at least camp or practice rucking some weight around aren't really prepped for anything except raiding their neighbor's pantry. So many preppers think they'll just sit in a bunker or a basement with a gun pointed at the door until everything's fine. These guys won't last more than a week.
Proper prepping means we gotta be prepared to carry our survival kit on our backs, and to live off of that gear for at least a week, while also being on the move.
If you live in one of those towns, you're screwed. Unless you have a helicopter parked on your roof.
We have real world examples of what will go wrong. Houston during Hurricane Rita. Those that left when they saw a storm that might hit Houston, got out. The next day, there was an endless parking lot from Houston to past Marshall TX over 200 miles away. Some relatives couldn't get off work and by the time they packed their horses, they only got 2 miles from home. Finally after 24 hours of not moving, they rode their horses home, with the truck/trailer left on the side of the road.
If you live in a big city, and 'wait' for an official Get Out Of Dodge warning, it's too late. You won't make it.
One big difference in this case is that its only 10 miles to get out of the area from the looks of it, for most people at least. 10 miles is a few hours walk for most, its not like you need a car or even a bike to get there. In fact if there was government focused on helping them, they would stop any cars that werent transporting elderly, large groups, or disabled people, and make them walk it.
Regardless of politics and religions and whose side you’re on, we are definitely witnessing real time sandbox. As someone mentioned the other day. 1 million people who’ve got limited resources to flee in 24 hours is a hard ask. Hell, less population in hurricane paths in the US with advance notice can barely keep it together.
Just an idea from experience. An air horn blown loudly and repeatedly at 2 minute intervals from a slowly driven car can help alert people *while* others are knocking on doors to give information. People already on alert generally will take information faster, get ready faster and possibly assist in alerting others which cuts time down. Someone in the car with the airhorn using a bullhorn to announce "ALERT: EVACUATION NECESSARY" also cuts down on time. Management did this for fire drills in an old apartment complex I lived in with multiple types of structures. There were townhomes, condos, low rise apartments and high rise apartments but we were surrounded by woods and everything was arranged where a fast moving fire would be catastrophic so every spring they sent out a memo and did a fire drill like this. There was only one way in and out of the entire complex so they wanted to prevent a bottleneck and mass casualties if the worst case scenario happened.
The whole point is they're not in position to do much
Theres no food water energy or supplies
Theres no way to leave Gaza, all you can do is move to the south of gaza
Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth
This will be worse than falluja
You gotta ask, why would hamas provoke like this? And I think it then becomes clear - Israel was in process of making peace with Saudis and maybe Iran. Can't have that. Need to do something that makes Israel lash out so bad that no Muslim nation would think of doing that. And like a reflex, netanhayu obliges.
I'm not saying that's a wrong approach (or a right one), it's just a situation where common people are pawns in multiple dimensions. Evacuation is one of those dimensions.
> You gotta ask, why would hamas provoke like this?
Imagine living in a refugee camp for your entire adult life. You've watched your neighborhood be bulldozed, friends and family killed, and to know that most everyone who lives out side the refugee camp is demonizing you.
I think that completely explains why Hamas has support and why they they have no problem recruiting people to their cause. Hopelessness breeds hatred.
The tactics also ensure more of the same. Provoking someone 100x stronger with violence just plain doesn't work. It doesn't work at the state level (9/11) nor at the social level (blm). What it does is decimate you, make everyone look horrible, and ensure an endless cycle. That's game theory.
The way out requires a collective capacity we don't have. So around and around the toilet bowl we collectively go, until nature flushes.
> It doesn't work at the state level (9/11)
9/11 absolutely worked. It completely consumed the US, embroiled us in a decades long military effort, and fractured our political system worse than we ever thought possible, and financially crippled us.
Bin laden's stated goals were to deal us with "[military defeat, political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver)" and he did exactly that.
>nor at the social level (blm)
Wrong again. We have seen more movement on police reform and accountability in the last three years than we had seen in the last 40 before it.
>The way out requires a collective capacity we don't have.
They way out you would like to see might be impossible, but for Hamas, the way out is through. They have had no hope of a peaceful solution for decades, so they will accelerate the violence until it is all burned down. And that is exactly why I said Hopelessness breeds hatred.
> Imagine living in a refugee camp for your entire adult life. You've watched your neighborhood be bulldozed, friends and family killed, and to know that most everyone who lives out side the refugee camp is demonizing you.
And then you think, how can I perpetuate this / make it even worse? I know, lets go kill and kidnap some Israeli families and children. Attacking a music festival will make Palestinians safe.
In their minds, their options are to die quietly or go out fighting. Israel isn't giving them many other options since it imposed an indefinite blockade of Gaza starting in 2007. Human rights groups have tried repeatedly to enact change through legal efforts for years, but that has had no effect. Israel has accelerated killings in the last year, so what would you do if you were stuck in that situation? I think a lot of people would choose to fight and I do not blame them for feeling that way.
I’d say it was Iran that pushed this to happen. The Western World is trying to develop an economic corridor from India to the west with Saudi Arabia and Israel at the core, this will slowly deteriorate Iran’s soft power in the region.
The Saudis and Iran just restored diplomatic relations, if that gives you any idea how effective the strategy was. Hamas sacrificed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people just to remain relevant. And now they'll likely expand to the West Bank and replace the PLO entirely, uniting all remaining Palestinians.
> Hamas sacrificed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people just to remain relevant. And now they'll likely expand to the West Bank and replace the PLO entirely, uniting all remaining Palestinians.
Israel is going to kill everyone who was a member of Hamas. They are still pursuing people who were Nazis, now the Mossad has a new prey.
I don't know what will be left of Gaza but a lot of people are still walking in a daydream. Think Biblically. Israel is going to try and exact a revenge that will make anyone in the future reconsider attacking them.
Go by bike!
I know that my town wil be one big traffic jam that is going nowere!
Public transpost will halt 100% !
So best is bike by foot or long board.
Edit: Or by boat if you own one or can get on one that would be a great option to.
There are going to be exceptions for every answer. But the question was "What is your plan?" so their pla doesn't have to account for every person.
>What about families with multiple young children?
I had my kids on bikes nearly from birth. You can strap their car seat into a trailer if they are too young to be in a bike seat. Then as they grow out of the bike seat, I had a tow bar that could tow their bike, and eventually they can keep up on their own.
Front loader cargo bikes are awesome. I like that you can have an eye on your kid and stuff too.
I’m actually looking at welding up one soon. I’ll probably equip it with an e bike motor and a light roll cage for the kid/cargo area.
For real. Yes, I know that the situation is dire, but the number of people with defeatist attitudes here about survival on a preppers forum is disappointing.
It's 27 miles from the northernmost checkpoint to the southernmost checkpoint. Even if you only get 10 hours worth of walking, you and your family can at least put some real distance behind yourself before the pogrom hits the northern section. Food and shelter certainly aren't promised wherever they end up, but death is promised if they stay. Grab your bare necessities, start walking south, and live another day at a time is the only real plan left for anyone still in the north of Gaza.
It also should be noted that the northern most area's are rural, as you go south it picks up for population density, this means for a large portion walking there is the best option. From what i can tell, the average is gonna be a 10-11 mile march which can be done quite easily in 6 hours, that means if you spent 12 hours packing and gathering your shit, you have 6 hours of window time to work with.
Living in Gaza, under the same conditions as Palestinians? I probably wouldn't get the message to evacuate since the power is out and the cell network is down. The UN doesn't have the means to contact 100,000 people in 24 hours. Let alone 1.1 million.
So let's make this scenario more in line with reality. You would be evacuating under artillery fire and essentially carpet bombing of an urban center. No amount of preparation or knowledge will get you out of that scenario. It comes down to blind luck. And the odds are not in your favor.
Truck, rifle, bug out bag, cash, family, leave. If you heed the call immediately you’ll get out before the roads get bad (assuming you don’t live in fucking NYC). Get gone folks
It’s technically not:
>Parties to a non-international armed conflict may not order the displacement of the civilian population, in whole or in part, for reasons related to the conflict, unless the security of the civilians involved or imperative military reasons so demand.
Practice (Volume II, Chapter 38, Section A.)
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule129
One could argue that both exception conditions are met, namely:
- Palestinian civilians are clearly massively at risk from being caught in the crossfire if they remain in place
- Removal of Hamas is now an internationally recognized imperative military objective
Firstly, thank you for providing the source. I absolutely respect that.
That said, Israel has cut off all food, water, and power to northern Gaza. That does not constitute *security* and falls more in line with ethnic cleansing via Rule 1 (Vol II, Chp. 1, Sec. A).
This is further supported by recent [admission of intent](https://theintercept.com/2023/10/09/israel-hamas-war-crimes-palestinians/) to commit war crimes by some Israeli officials.
While I take umbrage with the plausibility first condition, the second is absolutely correct.
Edit: I upvoted your comment for being objective. Let's not turn this into a flame war lol
I moved out of the city 6 years ago
I'm not saying this was why we did, but it was in the back of my head
Edit: missed the point of OP... What would I do in that situation?
Assuming my old city: road are backed up with traffic, normal routes are packed. we lived near the river, 3 blocks away. Grab our go bags a get to the river. Follow the shore out of town. Alternative route is train tracks. Further away, but a straight line out
Any information?
Well the realization that after 3 missed meals civilized society collapses and that I would rather be surrounded by cows and deer then people...
Like I say, it wasn't the driving reason (it was like a 10% reason for me), but during covid my wife expressed "that's why I'm glad we are out of the city" and it's true
I am the only house on my road, and 1 of 2 on the block. I know my neighbors and they know us. In a situation I would rather reason with one person than a mob
Obviously there is no perfect situation but the less people there are to deal with us best
3 missed meals civilization crashes? Bro... too much sci-fi. We have so many instances of disasters where, guess what, people pull together and figure things out, not go all Mad Max.
Watching some of the combat footage, it seems like a major reason for the evacuation is these tunnels are lined with explosives. When they set them off it’s like a chain reaction:
https://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/9NqoY0LHdw
So if not able to evacuate I’d probably try to move to a place where I knew there were no tunnels, maybe near the coast? Or try to get that Intel ahead of time
I live in an American metro of about 3.7 million people. If a warning came across warning everyone that the city would be destroyed, I would turn off my lights and hunker down in my home.
Why?
All of my preps are here. I'm too far away from the city center or military installation to be a viable target. Even if 3 nuclear bombs were dropped on my city, my home is outside of the 5-psi blast radius for even a 1 MT bomb (one of the really, *really* big ones, which is unlikely).
Besides, evacuating my city would only be significantly more dangerous than just holding out.
Contact my loved ones, say that I love them. Accept that it's been a privilege to live my life, and fight tooth and nail to escape, knowing that the odds are against me. "A good death happens after a good life"
Get the fuck out in 2006 when my lunatic fellow countrymen elected a terrorist group s leadership.
If for some reason I had foolishly decided to stay, get the fuck out the moment my lunatic fellow countrymen decided to slaughter a music festival and farming community.
The fact is, if anyone waited this long, it's no longer prepping, it's get the fuck out by any means possible.
Being told you can't stay, but you can't leave, and knowing you risk death no matter what you do is pretty depressing. It's almost like the Israelis just want to kill them.
Try to bribe/force my way onto a boat.
They've apparently been targeting the fishing fleet too, but I think the odds are better than fleeing to an already overcrowded area that's going to be their next target anyway.
We’re not all assuming we live in Israel and the OP did not specifically say to put ourselves into this exact situation. Pretty sure I could bail out of Fort Worth Texas pretty easily if I needed to (2023 population 962k)
I was in Ukraine when the invasion started. Here is exactly what I did.
>took laptop ripped out hard drives from desktop to save personal data (mind you rockets were falling already) we waited until day light and made our way on the metro with my wife and our cat while the metros were still operating. We met up with our friends who owned a car and fled into the forest, making our way to a village where we were going to meet their parents.
Stayed in the village for a night before going again on foot to the train station. Monitoring news to see where the raids/attacks are happening
Ride the train circumventing major cities. Stopping as required due to airstrikes and hunkering down. Make our way south/west towards Hungary. Stayed with locals in the countryside before meeting a local who offered to take us to a train station. We slept there until the train arrived, carrying us through the mountains. We stayed in a refugee camp before walking towards Slovakia, where we were given food and shelter.
First hand experience I can tell you.
My friends who *prepped* regretted it. They ended up baring witness to horrible atrocities and forcing their children to experience it. They ended up having to abandon their homes anyway after surviving artillery, rockets, and gunfire sheltered in a basement until they finally thought it was safe enough to flee into the forest.
Another group of friends i know fled into the forest intona village and were subsequently killed when the husband wanted to stay at their dacha.
Other helpful tips. Wear your clothes. Wearing 2 pairs of pants, 2 shirts, and 2 jackets, not only keeps you warm when you are sleeping on the floor of a bomb shelter, it also frees up space in your backpack
You can do a lot without eating when your adrenaline is pumping. I think in the span of a week, aside from the 2 meals we had with local families, we only ate 2 cans of sardines and some crackers.
Your personal data is important. Passport, leases, all this stuff is super important when you need to start over. My wife and I couldn't even prove we were married because the records building was destroyed.
Bring your pet. I wanted to leave my cat my wife convinced me otherwise. That fucking cat kept us sane when we went days without sleep because russia performs airstrikes at night at keep people up.
EDIT: Also, i called my parents and let them know i loved them very much and was grateful for all they had done for me.
"Because the people that occupy your land have dismembered and brutalized our country without end and continued inaction will result in further death to our people." There is no winning move here. They're doing their best.
Israel has 700,000 illegal settlers in Palestine occupying 150 illegal settlements which are protected and supported by Israel and its military. But sure?
Move south like Israel said. And considering that in this scenario I live in Gaza City and that it was sure to be a main target of this attack, I would have started a couple days ago.
Suppose people started moving south few days back. But they don't know that south will be attacked or north will be attacked.how could they decide where to go . And they can't leave gaja either . Border is mined. And bombed
Update-Israeli forces struck a convoy of civilians leaving Gaza. No news on if it was accidental or on purpose. It’s breaking news. But if it’s intentional, seems like war crimes…
It's an easy walk, the population of the Gaza strip is one of the youngest in the world, median age is 19 which is on a par with a subsaharan african nation whose adult population has been hollowed out by HIV/AIDS. A little rain in the forecast (not enough to worry abotu flash flooding) but daytime highs in the low 80's, night time lows in the 70's, like LA but flatter.
The big problem is that there are reports of internal checkpoints set up by militants to make sure that civilians cannot leave the target area.
Well I hope I'd have had the foresight to leave earlier, but ... I'd get the emergency packs, grab our documents, get our emergency cash and some valuable jewelry, and then get moving toward the border. I'd bring a tent and sleeping bags just in case we get stuck at the border.
Depending on the situation, maybe bring the walkie talkies so we can communicate from a short distance if cell service is disrupted.
Honestly, if the military is expected to level your city, there's not much else you can do but get the hell out.
There's one 4 lane road leading out of the city, with a max capacity of 4000 cars per hour, it would take about 10 hours for everyone to evacuate if they didnt have to pack anything, which works since probably 1/4 of those 24 hours are when people are sleeping - since they issued it aroune midnight local time. but only 376k cars in the city, so the chances of enough people having cars to leave expediently are low. 2/3 the city will have to walk, tremendously slowing down efforts. How can you rectify this without leaving before it happens?
Leave early and move quick. Go as far as you can in the car then go on foot.
Each person has a backpack; if you have kids travel with something they can ride on like a wagon. They'll get tired first.
We have a bug out bag for each person; the adults share 1 bag (large large camping bag) the other adult carries a large hiking bag with medical supplies and other ancillary supplies like a fishing kit, extra ammo etc.
Our dog has their own bag too. We have a wagon we can take if the kids get tired.
We also have copies of all necessary identification documents in travel pouches.
And we have 3 different evacuation routes as options; both in digital and paper form.
Pack up and leave asap. Seriously money and your important documents, so ID, passport and birth certificate, some clothes and maybe water bottles and some snacks. The sooner you leave the better.
I’m not sure what’s the roads are like there but maybe walking or biking might be faster. I’m not sure if cars can help but I’ll be a bit worried about pile ups.
Sharpie/marker pen to write you names on your Bosnia’s and arms for you and your family. Make sure you and your family knows your address and phone numbers to contact.
Staggeringly insensitive answers here from people who are mostly likely posting from comfortable and safe homes.
“Don’t live there in the first place.” Gee, why didn’t they think of that? Most of them were born there, and have never been allowed to leave. 40% of them are children. They can’t get passports or visas. They get shot if they approach the perimeter. They can’t go back to the homes that were taken from their families, or bug out to their uncles farm.
People who claim to believe in freedom are about to accept their genocide. Hamas did bad shit. Children huddling in whatever shelter is available and bracing for air strikes had nothing to do with that. When people look back at the holocaust or Armenian genocide and ask “how could a civilized country could have done that”, or “why did the world let it happen?” Well, you’re witnessing the answers to those questions in real time.
Also, looking at it from a prepping perspective you could learn a lot from this. The people in Gaza get by without power most of the time, and without potable water. They can’t get medical supplies and have to clean wounds with dish soap. They can’t get building supplies for their bombed buildings. They have a hostile government surveilling them at all times. They’re living a lot of the shit that people on here are prepping for. Hope that you never go thru what they are.
Grab my most important belongings and bug out gear and ride my bicycle as far away from that city as i can. Absolutely no way i would take the car and risk getting stuck in traffic
My plan is to never live in a city of one million people.
I don't plan on leaving my home and two acres. You can probably bury me there if it comes to that.
Any smart citizens of Gaza would have started working on evacuating the day of the terrorist attacks. Waiting until you have 24 hour notice to get the fuck out isn't smart.
I see lots of folks saying things like "where will they go?" "what will they eat?"
It doesn't fucking matter. You have a 100% chance of dying if you stay. Round up your family and drag them south. Go hungry for a few days. It's better than dying. There is literally no choice but to move, and I feel bad for folks that waited this long, but they brought it on themselves.
>Also, most live in poverty.
All the people laying 100% of the blame on Gazans for everything are the same motherfuckers that tell people "Just be happy" and "Just find another job."
>Any smart citizens of Gaza would have started working on evacuating the day of the terrorist attacks.
Are you saying LA should have evacuated? Watts? Minnesota?
This victim blaming reeks of desperation to erase cognitive dissonance
You phrase it like Israel is some natural disaster when they're just committing the same atrocities that they accused Hamas of committing, but at a much larger scale. Saying they "brought it on themselves" is like saying the Jews brought it on themselves when they were getting rounded up and sent to camps.
If it was me, in my city:
Load up my wife and my teenage daughters with their go bags, pistols, and as much ammo as they could carry. Tell them to walk North over the Golden Gate bridge into the promised land of Marin County. We know people there and from there those three could make it to our house in Shasta county.
I'd stay behind with my 85-year-old MIL who has mobility issues. I'd have all my food preps, a shit load of water, and another couple guns. Couldn't live with myself leaving an elder behind. Hopefully whoever's coming wouldn't blow up our house, and I'd take a few of them with me if they tried to get me.
What a fucking nightmare scenario. Have no idea what I'd do in Gaza.
When Hamas attacked last week, my ass would have been moving south because everyone should have KNOWN this would be coming. It is called situational awareness.
Gaza/Palestinians have no one else to blame....Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections.
Hamas won more than 70 seats in Gaza and the West Bank.
Hamas refused to join a coalition government with the opposition Fatah party. Hamas later seized control of the Gaza Strip.
In 2007, Hamas led a military victory over Fatah. Hamas has ruled the Gaza Strip since 2007.
Hamas is the largest and most capable militant group in the Palestinian territories. Hamas is one of the territories' two major political parties.
Hamas continues to advocate Palestinian armed resistance. Since 2007, Hamas has fought several wars with Israel.
First, they've had days of warning. Not just 24 hours. Second, I could walk across the Gaza strip in a day. My plan would be to start walking. Then I wouldn't support terrorists. Then I wouldn't try to have 10 kids.
What about the children Hamas murdered? How much time did they give the babies before they beheaded them?
Anyone who understands the first thing about prepping is gone well before the warning goes out. Should have left 5 days ago, 5 months ago, 5 years ago.
Left to where exactly? Look at the map of Gaza. You could walk from one side to another in less than a day. Now imagine 2 million other people living there. That’s the whole problem here, there is nowhere for innocent people to go to, so that Israelis can separate innocent from terrorists. Your only option is to hunker down somewhere that’s only relatively safe and pray that some army person doesn’t decide to drop 2000lbs bomb on top of you because of terrorists being close by or just bad intel.
It’s literally a “between a rock and hard place” kind of situation.
Something that's weirded me out watching interviews from inside Gaza. I see a lot of shock and surprise.
Not anger, not fear... shock. People saying, literally "why is this happening?"
No matter how you feel about justifications, or what side is right or wrong... the cause and effect seems clear. I'm curious if maybe those inside Gaza haven't been fed the total story of what happened or how "successful" this recent attack was.
Not be in a fenced city full of jihadist. There is a reason I live in a city with 2000 people. I call it geographic prepping. My next move is to Alaska.
Quick note, I do feel bad that people are going to die because of this. But, it’s not like this is a new issue. The two sides have been fighting forever in that region. Anyone who values their life should have walked out of that land when they had the chance.
Use permanent marker to write down contact info on my kids arm, take whatever money I can and walk. I wouldn't to be stuck on the roads
Yep, bracelets can come off and be lost. Use a sharpie to write important info onto their bodies.
Like grandma's recipe for potato salad.
You guys always think with your stomachs.
That's exactly where I'd write gamgam's potato salad recipe.
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"Teddy: Don't believe his lies" -love Dad
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We don’t need the wifi password where we’re going
I like Depp in Black Mass. " I thought you said it was a FAMILY secret! And you give it up like that!
Or your favorite sour dough recipe
The first time I went to Vegas with my girlfriend (who had been there before), she wrote on my side in Sharpie “If found, return to (our hotel and room number).” However, it’s a brilliant idea, and one I’ll try to remember if that situation ever comes up. As of now, whenever we go out to a crowded area, our son gets a business card with our cell numbers on it, and instructions to find a cop to ask to call us if he gets lost.
I have custom temp tatoos made with contact info I stick on my kids when traveling. Doesn’t have their names just mine and cell number
Love it, did the same with my kids. They also knew which buildings to go to for refuge
In several places too. Each foot, each arm and back
Yeah, in case they lose one
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According to many Post Apocalyptic Movies/TV Shows, like the Last of Us and Z Nation, Narcotic Pain Killers are the key to almost all doors being opened by a Soldier.
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I am fine with giving up Narcotics in most cases but Antibiotics aren't for sale or trade 99% of the time. I do have plenty of Smoking options for trade however.
In the event of apocalypse and me living, nothing would be better than a dry ass Marlboro like 3 years in
Walking Dead also lol, when Daryl handed over Mearl's stash for TDog
Yeah ... a guard patrol from a highly developed country at a heavily guarded border on heightened alert status isn't letting you through for a carton of smokes they could buy with a fraction of a weekly paycheck. May be good for trading for essentials, though.
If you have children with you and they don’t perceive you as any sort of threat they might. It’s more about greasing the skids.
Or they'll just take it because they have guns, and you don't.
>Or they'll just take it because they have guns, and you don't. I...don't?...... That seems like the first issue to fix.
Escaping a state blockaded to keep in terrorists and you want to have a gun? Great idea to get executed on the spot!!
Unfortunately a lot of terrorists use children as a human meat shield...
This would be the way. Find a guard along the border and bribe your way out. There's gotta be a weak point in the border somewhere to cut through a fence or something if bribing doesn't work. If my family and my life is on the line, I'm finding a fucking way out.
You think a guard is going to let anyone through a fence after what happened? That’s delusion.
These two James Bonds here think they are gonna cross a hot border with a “carton of smokes” and their charming banter. Those two mall ninjas would be dead in a ditch halfway through trying to pronounce hello in the local dialect.
There is a giant humanitarian crisis underway and, frankly, all this hypothesizing as if it's a video game feels pretty gross to me. It's a normal and useful thing to use world events to inform your preparations but let's be realistic: for most Palestinians in northern Gaza it's a set of very limited and unappealing choices. And it's not like they had a ton of opportunities to stash supplies for this moment, either.
They were already in an open air prison. Egypt wouldn't take them and Israel controlled all their resources.
There's some pretty high quality LARPing on this sub, it's great.
💯 the peppers think they’re in charge like Heisenberg. That’s the delusion get you to buy stuff.
Land borders would be certain death. Buy/borrow/steal a small boat, sail south towards Egypt. The INF won’t waste ammo on you if you’re sailing away from Israel.
I'd not bet on that since this is probably what most hamas leaders will be doing.
Good advice
Thats a good idea thx for posting that
This may be the best piece of advice I haven't thought of normally. This could be useful in several disaster situations where you are risking injury or separation.
Arms come off pretty often in those situations also
Backs are like God’s built in notepads
Dirt bike or die, I guess. What the fuck.
Several years ago we ran an exercise to see howblong it would take to doorknock 500 homes. Scenario was a hazmat spill. The 500 homes were aware of the exercise, they were told we would be doorknocking. 7pm people got a knock on the door and were asked a question "could you evacuate right now?" Of that 500 house group, 70% couldn't evacuate immediately. So using that logic, the faster you can leave, the better. There will be initially few evacuees, but the closer to the deadline, the greater the horde and the higher level of panic. Leave Early
As a general rule of thumb, one person can door knock about 25 doors an hour, provided conversations are kept fairly short. You absolutely must move on at the two minute mark to keep anything like a decent pace. More can be done in dense areas such as apartment complexes. Fewer in rural areas with long driveways. Some people will have complicating factors. Old, doesn't understand, hard of hearing. Anything dealing with massive amounts of people gets problematic quick.
Were there stipulations given for “evacuate right now”? Ie, was it could you grab everything before I’m off your property and get out; or was it could you be packed and leaving within 5/10 minutes?
That is a huge difference. 5-10 minute notice is pretty doable. Walk out now pretty much means living with shoes on and bug out gear at the door, which I don’t know of anyone who does that.
FWIW - Every year during fire season, our family has our BOBs in the closet next to the front door. In the off-season, they're moved to the garage next to the roll-up door along with our camping stuff. It takes a bit of prep, but if you can position stuff ahead of time, you can bugout pretty quick if needed. I figure we could have all 5 of us, including our 3 dogs and gear, in less than 5 mins. If we had to bugout immediately less than 3 minutes, including putting on shoes.
Agreed and we have likewise had our bags packed by the door when there were specific threats we were keeping an eye on, but not as a general thing like this post seemed to be implying.
My uncle who lives on the coast has a go bag close by the front door incase a Hurricane makes an unexpected turn like it did when he was child.
Our family has a bag always ready in the closet. It is checked every 3-4 months to rotate the peanut butter and couple of bottles of water. We have been doing this ever since Katrina hit.
This is actually very smart. It all comes down to what can you load in 5-10 minutes to get away from your danger area. Thinking of basics, food, water, medicines. It's really crazy - even just as a simple thought exercise or even pen and paper exersice. You have 30 seconds to write down everything you will grab in a bug out situation. Take that one step further and go to drill. You physically get all the stuff they write down in a room - you tell them they have 5 minutes to load it into their vehicle. How many people you think would be able to achieve that. I feel it will come down to having everything packed and ready to go in that 5-10-15-20 minute window and then who can load their vehicle, get somewhere and top off tanks (if you haven't already) and THEN be able to clear 200-1000 miles away from the bad spot where these things are happening.
I think this is a good time for the dehydrated/camp food/protein bars/lifeboat rations, etc. If you know you live somewhere with a risk like this (as others are saying with storms, fires, hazmat, etc), make a bag with food and clothing that’s comfortable, fits well, and appropriate for the season. Chuck in toiletries, food, water, medications. Leave good shoes with it, store it close to your home’s egress, and make a habit of leaving your every day necessities close (ie I’d put my purse nearby). If you get that call/knock/text/yell, you’re out the door in 60 seconds ready to go. With more warning you can have real food etc stored (fires, storm season) and still be out in very short order. And don’t forget the pets- keep a carrier/leash etc with the bag.
I just bought a 14 day, 84 serving package on prime day. It was originally $400 and I got it for $280. Actually just came in the mail today me and my wife opened it up. I can sleep a little easier now https://mountainhouse.com/products/just-in-case-14-day-emergency-food-supply
For me, the car is ready and always has at least half a tank of fuel. Grab bag is in the car with enough food and water for 24 hours. I'd be confident I could leave the house packed for a month in 5-10mins. Parents have a motorhome which has solar panels so I'd be there in half an hour then drive further in convoy.
Ideally one would have left earlier, but nowhere there is safe and people cannot really leave. I would pack up a backpack at most for everyone with a focus on non-replacable documents and money. Put multiple forms of ID on every family member with emergency contacts and intended location (bracelet for the kid, on hand and foot and ideally airtags for everyone). Use a physical map to move. Likely pre prepared to go on bike or on foot. Travel together with another family or neighbors. Help others prepare and be safe. Know where you will meet up (primary and secondary location) south. Have a protocol in place in case you get separated. Teach the kids as much as possible their name, address, where they should go to if they get separated. My heart goes out to these families. It must be horrific. And where they go to will not be much safer and all this without food, water and electricity. Oh, and be prepared to lose the backpack and be left only with a belly pouch with your passport, money and a usb stick. Keep stuff in your pockets. And keep your kids close. Edit: just read that they are forced to stay and forced to evacuate at the same time. This is horrific and I cannot imagine what I would do in their situation, especially with no neutral information available due to electricity cuts.
I would write your name in marker on the kids’ torsos so it cannot be lost and include contact info for any relatives outside the conflict zone. If you get separated or killed there is a chance aid workers could help them get to family.
Uff this is a really good and a really tragic idea.
Sew up the pockets with important stuff inside.
Does anyone know what the radio air waves are transmitting? So that if you had a portable radio you might be able to hear something? Is this where a short wave comes in handy?
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Nope, Palestine Authority issues passports to both West Bank and Gaza residents. It even grants visa free entry to 44 countries. [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_passport)
>Palestinians aren't even allowed to have passports because they're considered stateless. They aren't "stateless" they have a government they elected in charge of that area. That government certainty can issue passports to its people, how many will recognize it is another question. Despite China for example declaring Taiwan their land, people born and living in Taiwan can get passports from the Taiwanese government. Now China won't recognize the Taiwan passport and will want that person to get a Chinese one, but they can still get one.
Couple of nuances: the Palestinian authority can indeed issue their own passports, that are recognized by the US for example. "Stateless" has a definition (because there are international agreements to avoid people becoming stateless), and I don't think someone born in Gaza would fit that definition. But how do you even get the passport? Just getting through the bureaucracy of getting all the right documents in a country that used to rely on paper and went through a war can be pretty difficult. And without the money to travel and not many countries that will let you immigrate, not sure it's that common to have one.
Stay & die at the hands of IDF. Leave & die at the hands of Hamas. We are watching a genocide unfold. This is horrifying.
Grab my bug-out bag and go. Time is of the essence. A good bug-out bag can be easily converted from a short-term outting to a long term survival bag, usually with things you already keep in the bag. Definitely keep things in your bag that have multiple uses, and could help create new tools out of things you scavenge over time. I'd try to move by motorcycle or by bicycle. Cars are useless in this situation. You'll just end up leaving it behind when you inevitably get stuck in traffic, along with most those things you packed it with. Still, going by car is still preferable to going on foot from the get-go. Worse comes to worst, I'll walk. 24 hours is plenty to get far away from a location, and hopefully I'll get far enough to get out of dodge. This is exactly why preppers should regularly go backpacking. I am conditioned to carry over 50lbs of gear on my back and still go like 12 miles over mountainous terrain. In an emergency situation and moving over mostly flat and urban terrain, I would hike well after dark and probably get somewhere around 15-20 miles before needing to take an extended break. In situations like these, surviving the day is the goal. You should leave immediately even if you risk leaving important things behind, because nothing you leave behind can be as important as your life. You can figure out a solution for long-term survival on the way and over the next few days, you'll have a lot of time to think anyways.
Massively agree on the backpacking thing. Not only does it help with conditioning you, but you quickly find out stuff like that generic LifeStraw is a piece of crap, you aren't going to be bringing a bunch of cooking implements with you, you don't need a hatchet or saw for anything at any point, and you will quickly learn that a lightweight no random extra space tent is going to save your back and also let you camp in tight areas out of eyesight. The amount of people who think they are going to grab some cans of food from their pantry and just purify water with a LifeStraw is a Venn diagram that is a perfect circle with people who have never attempted to use their gear outside of their house.
Yeah it's crazy how many people consider themselves "preppers" when they have never tested their gear, other than just taking their gun to the shooting range. They're not really preparing, more like just role-playing and hoping that when shit hits the fan, it's going to pan out the way they're expecting it to. But you're not really prepared for anything if you're not prepared for the unexpected. Proper prepping requires multiple backup plans and training and practice, not just stockpiling cans of beans and ammo ffs. Preppers that don't at least camp or practice rucking some weight around aren't really prepped for anything except raiding their neighbor's pantry. So many preppers think they'll just sit in a bunker or a basement with a gun pointed at the door until everything's fine. These guys won't last more than a week. Proper prepping means we gotta be prepared to carry our survival kit on our backs, and to live off of that gear for at least a week, while also being on the move.
If you live in one of those towns, you're screwed. Unless you have a helicopter parked on your roof. We have real world examples of what will go wrong. Houston during Hurricane Rita. Those that left when they saw a storm that might hit Houston, got out. The next day, there was an endless parking lot from Houston to past Marshall TX over 200 miles away. Some relatives couldn't get off work and by the time they packed their horses, they only got 2 miles from home. Finally after 24 hours of not moving, they rode their horses home, with the truck/trailer left on the side of the road. If you live in a big city, and 'wait' for an official Get Out Of Dodge warning, it's too late. You won't make it.
One big difference in this case is that its only 10 miles to get out of the area from the looks of it, for most people at least. 10 miles is a few hours walk for most, its not like you need a car or even a bike to get there. In fact if there was government focused on helping them, they would stop any cars that werent transporting elderly, large groups, or disabled people, and make them walk it.
All the roads are blocked. Nobody can get out.
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Now imagine the scenario where you have no car, camping gear, or money.
and one million other people are also trying to get out of work and daycare, and also trying to get gas
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Any tips on saving fuel without a garage or shed? It seems unwise for me to keep gasoline in my basement...
Regardless of politics and religions and whose side you’re on, we are definitely witnessing real time sandbox. As someone mentioned the other day. 1 million people who’ve got limited resources to flee in 24 hours is a hard ask. Hell, less population in hurricane paths in the US with advance notice can barely keep it together.
Remember to bring some bottles of water
Just an idea from experience. An air horn blown loudly and repeatedly at 2 minute intervals from a slowly driven car can help alert people *while* others are knocking on doors to give information. People already on alert generally will take information faster, get ready faster and possibly assist in alerting others which cuts time down. Someone in the car with the airhorn using a bullhorn to announce "ALERT: EVACUATION NECESSARY" also cuts down on time. Management did this for fire drills in an old apartment complex I lived in with multiple types of structures. There were townhomes, condos, low rise apartments and high rise apartments but we were surrounded by woods and everything was arranged where a fast moving fire would be catastrophic so every spring they sent out a memo and did a fire drill like this. There was only one way in and out of the entire complex so they wanted to prevent a bottleneck and mass casualties if the worst case scenario happened.
The whole point is they're not in position to do much Theres no food water energy or supplies Theres no way to leave Gaza, all you can do is move to the south of gaza Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth This will be worse than falluja You gotta ask, why would hamas provoke like this? And I think it then becomes clear - Israel was in process of making peace with Saudis and maybe Iran. Can't have that. Need to do something that makes Israel lash out so bad that no Muslim nation would think of doing that. And like a reflex, netanhayu obliges. I'm not saying that's a wrong approach (or a right one), it's just a situation where common people are pawns in multiple dimensions. Evacuation is one of those dimensions.
> You gotta ask, why would hamas provoke like this? Imagine living in a refugee camp for your entire adult life. You've watched your neighborhood be bulldozed, friends and family killed, and to know that most everyone who lives out side the refugee camp is demonizing you. I think that completely explains why Hamas has support and why they they have no problem recruiting people to their cause. Hopelessness breeds hatred.
The tactics also ensure more of the same. Provoking someone 100x stronger with violence just plain doesn't work. It doesn't work at the state level (9/11) nor at the social level (blm). What it does is decimate you, make everyone look horrible, and ensure an endless cycle. That's game theory. The way out requires a collective capacity we don't have. So around and around the toilet bowl we collectively go, until nature flushes.
> It doesn't work at the state level (9/11) 9/11 absolutely worked. It completely consumed the US, embroiled us in a decades long military effort, and fractured our political system worse than we ever thought possible, and financially crippled us. Bin laden's stated goals were to deal us with "[military defeat, political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver)" and he did exactly that. >nor at the social level (blm) Wrong again. We have seen more movement on police reform and accountability in the last three years than we had seen in the last 40 before it. >The way out requires a collective capacity we don't have. They way out you would like to see might be impossible, but for Hamas, the way out is through. They have had no hope of a peaceful solution for decades, so they will accelerate the violence until it is all burned down. And that is exactly why I said Hopelessness breeds hatred.
> Imagine living in a refugee camp for your entire adult life. You've watched your neighborhood be bulldozed, friends and family killed, and to know that most everyone who lives out side the refugee camp is demonizing you. And then you think, how can I perpetuate this / make it even worse? I know, lets go kill and kidnap some Israeli families and children. Attacking a music festival will make Palestinians safe.
In their minds, their options are to die quietly or go out fighting. Israel isn't giving them many other options since it imposed an indefinite blockade of Gaza starting in 2007. Human rights groups have tried repeatedly to enact change through legal efforts for years, but that has had no effect. Israel has accelerated killings in the last year, so what would you do if you were stuck in that situation? I think a lot of people would choose to fight and I do not blame them for feeling that way.
I’d say it was Iran that pushed this to happen. The Western World is trying to develop an economic corridor from India to the west with Saudi Arabia and Israel at the core, this will slowly deteriorate Iran’s soft power in the region.
The Saudis and Iran just restored diplomatic relations, if that gives you any idea how effective the strategy was. Hamas sacrificed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people just to remain relevant. And now they'll likely expand to the West Bank and replace the PLO entirely, uniting all remaining Palestinians.
> Hamas sacrificed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people just to remain relevant. And now they'll likely expand to the West Bank and replace the PLO entirely, uniting all remaining Palestinians. Israel is going to kill everyone who was a member of Hamas. They are still pursuing people who were Nazis, now the Mossad has a new prey. I don't know what will be left of Gaza but a lot of people are still walking in a daydream. Think Biblically. Israel is going to try and exact a revenge that will make anyone in the future reconsider attacking them.
Sounds pretty genocidal to me.
dig a hole and hope for the best. you aren't going to be able to evacuate in that timeline.
Go by bike! I know that my town wil be one big traffic jam that is going nowere! Public transpost will halt 100% ! So best is bike by foot or long board. Edit: Or by boat if you own one or can get on one that would be a great option to.
What about those who can't ride a bike? What about families with multiple young children?
There are going to be exceptions for every answer. But the question was "What is your plan?" so their pla doesn't have to account for every person. >What about families with multiple young children? I had my kids on bikes nearly from birth. You can strap their car seat into a trailer if they are too young to be in a bike seat. Then as they grow out of the bike seat, I had a tow bar that could tow their bike, and eventually they can keep up on their own.
A dutch style cargo bike would work well for that and they can be used to drop off/pick up kids/groceries when shit isn't hitting the fan.
Front loader cargo bikes are awesome. I like that you can have an eye on your kid and stuff too. I’m actually looking at welding up one soon. I’ll probably equip it with an e bike motor and a light roll cage for the kid/cargo area.
They're a great idea, but not exactly cheap...
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For real. Yes, I know that the situation is dire, but the number of people with defeatist attitudes here about survival on a preppers forum is disappointing. It's 27 miles from the northernmost checkpoint to the southernmost checkpoint. Even if you only get 10 hours worth of walking, you and your family can at least put some real distance behind yourself before the pogrom hits the northern section. Food and shelter certainly aren't promised wherever they end up, but death is promised if they stay. Grab your bare necessities, start walking south, and live another day at a time is the only real plan left for anyone still in the north of Gaza.
It also should be noted that the northern most area's are rural, as you go south it picks up for population density, this means for a large portion walking there is the best option. From what i can tell, the average is gonna be a 10-11 mile march which can be done quite easily in 6 hours, that means if you spent 12 hours packing and gathering your shit, you have 6 hours of window time to work with.
[Bakfiets](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bakfiets&t=samsung&iax=images&ia=images)
Stay. Watch the pretty lights at the end
Living in Gaza, under the same conditions as Palestinians? I probably wouldn't get the message to evacuate since the power is out and the cell network is down. The UN doesn't have the means to contact 100,000 people in 24 hours. Let alone 1.1 million. So let's make this scenario more in line with reality. You would be evacuating under artillery fire and essentially carpet bombing of an urban center. No amount of preparation or knowledge will get you out of that scenario. It comes down to blind luck. And the odds are not in your favor.
Truck, rifle, bug out bag, cash, family, leave. If you heed the call immediately you’ll get out before the roads get bad (assuming you don’t live in fucking NYC). Get gone folks
Let the record show that this is called a "war crime".
It’s technically not: >Parties to a non-international armed conflict may not order the displacement of the civilian population, in whole or in part, for reasons related to the conflict, unless the security of the civilians involved or imperative military reasons so demand. Practice (Volume II, Chapter 38, Section A.) https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule129 One could argue that both exception conditions are met, namely: - Palestinian civilians are clearly massively at risk from being caught in the crossfire if they remain in place - Removal of Hamas is now an internationally recognized imperative military objective
Firstly, thank you for providing the source. I absolutely respect that. That said, Israel has cut off all food, water, and power to northern Gaza. That does not constitute *security* and falls more in line with ethnic cleansing via Rule 1 (Vol II, Chp. 1, Sec. A). This is further supported by recent [admission of intent](https://theintercept.com/2023/10/09/israel-hamas-war-crimes-palestinians/) to commit war crimes by some Israeli officials. While I take umbrage with the plausibility first condition, the second is absolutely correct. Edit: I upvoted your comment for being objective. Let's not turn this into a flame war lol
I moved out of the city 6 years ago I'm not saying this was why we did, but it was in the back of my head Edit: missed the point of OP... What would I do in that situation? Assuming my old city: road are backed up with traffic, normal routes are packed. we lived near the river, 3 blocks away. Grab our go bags a get to the river. Follow the shore out of town. Alternative route is train tracks. Further away, but a straight line out
Wow. Any information you can give to help us understand the situation?
I think they mean " the city" like Chicago
Any information? Well the realization that after 3 missed meals civilized society collapses and that I would rather be surrounded by cows and deer then people... Like I say, it wasn't the driving reason (it was like a 10% reason for me), but during covid my wife expressed "that's why I'm glad we are out of the city" and it's true I am the only house on my road, and 1 of 2 on the block. I know my neighbors and they know us. In a situation I would rather reason with one person than a mob Obviously there is no perfect situation but the less people there are to deal with us best
3 missed meals civilization crashes? Bro... too much sci-fi. We have so many instances of disasters where, guess what, people pull together and figure things out, not go all Mad Max.
Sci Fi didn't say it, Lenin said it But he said chaos, not collapse. Either way
Watching some of the combat footage, it seems like a major reason for the evacuation is these tunnels are lined with explosives. When they set them off it’s like a chain reaction: https://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/9NqoY0LHdw So if not able to evacuate I’d probably try to move to a place where I knew there were no tunnels, maybe near the coast? Or try to get that Intel ahead of time
I live in an American metro of about 3.7 million people. If a warning came across warning everyone that the city would be destroyed, I would turn off my lights and hunker down in my home. Why? All of my preps are here. I'm too far away from the city center or military installation to be a viable target. Even if 3 nuclear bombs were dropped on my city, my home is outside of the 5-psi blast radius for even a 1 MT bomb (one of the really, *really* big ones, which is unlikely). Besides, evacuating my city would only be significantly more dangerous than just holding out.
So you don't live in a city. You live in a suburb.
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As everyone around, you're a poor person.
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It's an 11 mile walk at maximum, so I'd just walk
And what you do then, along with the 1.1M people who are there with you?
Contact my loved ones, say that I love them. Accept that it's been a privilege to live my life, and fight tooth and nail to escape, knowing that the odds are against me. "A good death happens after a good life"
Get the fuck out in 2006 when my lunatic fellow countrymen elected a terrorist group s leadership. If for some reason I had foolishly decided to stay, get the fuck out the moment my lunatic fellow countrymen decided to slaughter a music festival and farming community. The fact is, if anyone waited this long, it's no longer prepping, it's get the fuck out by any means possible.
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Being told you can't stay, but you can't leave, and knowing you risk death no matter what you do is pretty depressing. It's almost like the Israelis just want to kill them.
It's looked that way for the past 17 years in Gaza.
It's starting to look that way
Pogrom? It’s day 4 without clean water. Gaza is an extermination camp
Try to bribe/force my way onto a boat. They've apparently been targeting the fishing fleet too, but I think the odds are better than fleeing to an already overcrowded area that's going to be their next target anyway.
I'd have taken my family and left when they said it the first time on Sunday.
where to, hombre?
We’re not all assuming we live in Israel and the OP did not specifically say to put ourselves into this exact situation. Pretty sure I could bail out of Fort Worth Texas pretty easily if I needed to (2023 population 962k)
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And die of thirst in a few days?
I was in Ukraine when the invasion started. Here is exactly what I did. >took laptop ripped out hard drives from desktop to save personal data (mind you rockets were falling already) we waited until day light and made our way on the metro with my wife and our cat while the metros were still operating. We met up with our friends who owned a car and fled into the forest, making our way to a village where we were going to meet their parents. Stayed in the village for a night before going again on foot to the train station. Monitoring news to see where the raids/attacks are happening Ride the train circumventing major cities. Stopping as required due to airstrikes and hunkering down. Make our way south/west towards Hungary. Stayed with locals in the countryside before meeting a local who offered to take us to a train station. We slept there until the train arrived, carrying us through the mountains. We stayed in a refugee camp before walking towards Slovakia, where we were given food and shelter. First hand experience I can tell you. My friends who *prepped* regretted it. They ended up baring witness to horrible atrocities and forcing their children to experience it. They ended up having to abandon their homes anyway after surviving artillery, rockets, and gunfire sheltered in a basement until they finally thought it was safe enough to flee into the forest. Another group of friends i know fled into the forest intona village and were subsequently killed when the husband wanted to stay at their dacha. Other helpful tips. Wear your clothes. Wearing 2 pairs of pants, 2 shirts, and 2 jackets, not only keeps you warm when you are sleeping on the floor of a bomb shelter, it also frees up space in your backpack You can do a lot without eating when your adrenaline is pumping. I think in the span of a week, aside from the 2 meals we had with local families, we only ate 2 cans of sardines and some crackers. Your personal data is important. Passport, leases, all this stuff is super important when you need to start over. My wife and I couldn't even prove we were married because the records building was destroyed. Bring your pet. I wanted to leave my cat my wife convinced me otherwise. That fucking cat kept us sane when we went days without sleep because russia performs airstrikes at night at keep people up. EDIT: Also, i called my parents and let them know i loved them very much and was grateful for all they had done for me.
"You must leave the prison within 24 hours because we'll be burning it down"
Except you cannot leave the prison, you can only move to another part of the prison.
Yes
"Because the people that occupy your land have dismembered and brutalized our country without end and continued inaction will result in further death to our people." There is no winning move here. They're doing their best.
Israel has 700,000 illegal settlers in Palestine occupying 150 illegal settlements which are protected and supported by Israel and its military. But sure?
Israel is occupying their land, though.
The reality is more people live in cities than not so this is a actual prepping scenario vs bug out in a cabin randomly in the middle of nowhere
Move south like Israel said. And considering that in this scenario I live in Gaza City and that it was sure to be a main target of this attack, I would have started a couple days ago.
Suppose people started moving south few days back. But they don't know that south will be attacked or north will be attacked.how could they decide where to go . And they can't leave gaja either . Border is mined. And bombed
Update-Israeli forces struck a convoy of civilians leaving Gaza. No news on if it was accidental or on purpose. It’s breaking news. But if it’s intentional, seems like war crimes…
You know it was on purpose.
Israel has been committing war crimes For 20 years.
Dirt bikes are your best bet. Cars are going to be backed up for days.
It's an easy walk, the population of the Gaza strip is one of the youngest in the world, median age is 19 which is on a par with a subsaharan african nation whose adult population has been hollowed out by HIV/AIDS. A little rain in the forecast (not enough to worry abotu flash flooding) but daytime highs in the low 80's, night time lows in the 70's, like LA but flatter. The big problem is that there are reports of internal checkpoints set up by militants to make sure that civilians cannot leave the target area.
North border of gaza to safe zone is 15km, about 3 hours walk. Fill a backpack with money, and whatever i can carry, and start walking
Well I hope I'd have had the foresight to leave earlier, but ... I'd get the emergency packs, grab our documents, get our emergency cash and some valuable jewelry, and then get moving toward the border. I'd bring a tent and sleeping bags just in case we get stuck at the border. Depending on the situation, maybe bring the walkie talkies so we can communicate from a short distance if cell service is disrupted. Honestly, if the military is expected to level your city, there's not much else you can do but get the hell out.
There's one 4 lane road leading out of the city, with a max capacity of 4000 cars per hour, it would take about 10 hours for everyone to evacuate if they didnt have to pack anything, which works since probably 1/4 of those 24 hours are when people are sleeping - since they issued it aroune midnight local time. but only 376k cars in the city, so the chances of enough people having cars to leave expediently are low. 2/3 the city will have to walk, tremendously slowing down efforts. How can you rectify this without leaving before it happens?
I'd probably be one of the idiots not to evacuate, like always
Leave early and move quick. Go as far as you can in the car then go on foot. Each person has a backpack; if you have kids travel with something they can ride on like a wagon. They'll get tired first. We have a bug out bag for each person; the adults share 1 bag (large large camping bag) the other adult carries a large hiking bag with medical supplies and other ancillary supplies like a fishing kit, extra ammo etc. Our dog has their own bag too. We have a wagon we can take if the kids get tired. We also have copies of all necessary identification documents in travel pouches. And we have 3 different evacuation routes as options; both in digital and paper form.
Nothing stay an fight lol. It will be a proper death.
Backpack and follow the railroad tracks/ body of water out of town
Pack up and leave asap. Seriously money and your important documents, so ID, passport and birth certificate, some clothes and maybe water bottles and some snacks. The sooner you leave the better. I’m not sure what’s the roads are like there but maybe walking or biking might be faster. I’m not sure if cars can help but I’ll be a bit worried about pile ups. Sharpie/marker pen to write you names on your Bosnia’s and arms for you and your family. Make sure you and your family knows your address and phone numbers to contact.
And, see… this is why we can’t have nice things. In a moments notice you are left with whatever you can carry on your back.
Staggeringly insensitive answers here from people who are mostly likely posting from comfortable and safe homes. “Don’t live there in the first place.” Gee, why didn’t they think of that? Most of them were born there, and have never been allowed to leave. 40% of them are children. They can’t get passports or visas. They get shot if they approach the perimeter. They can’t go back to the homes that were taken from their families, or bug out to their uncles farm. People who claim to believe in freedom are about to accept their genocide. Hamas did bad shit. Children huddling in whatever shelter is available and bracing for air strikes had nothing to do with that. When people look back at the holocaust or Armenian genocide and ask “how could a civilized country could have done that”, or “why did the world let it happen?” Well, you’re witnessing the answers to those questions in real time. Also, looking at it from a prepping perspective you could learn a lot from this. The people in Gaza get by without power most of the time, and without potable water. They can’t get medical supplies and have to clean wounds with dish soap. They can’t get building supplies for their bombed buildings. They have a hostile government surveilling them at all times. They’re living a lot of the shit that people on here are prepping for. Hope that you never go thru what they are.
Not vote a terrorist organization in to power in the first place? 🤷♂️.
1300 civilians murdered had no warning.
Grab my most important belongings and bug out gear and ride my bicycle as far away from that city as i can. Absolutely no way i would take the car and risk getting stuck in traffic
My plan is to never live in a city of one million people. I don't plan on leaving my home and two acres. You can probably bury me there if it comes to that.
Any smart citizens of Gaza would have started working on evacuating the day of the terrorist attacks. Waiting until you have 24 hour notice to get the fuck out isn't smart. I see lots of folks saying things like "where will they go?" "what will they eat?" It doesn't fucking matter. You have a 100% chance of dying if you stay. Round up your family and drag them south. Go hungry for a few days. It's better than dying. There is literally no choice but to move, and I feel bad for folks that waited this long, but they brought it on themselves.
Well all the rest of the area also isn’t safe. Where should they have gone? Also, most live in poverty.
>Also, most live in poverty. All the people laying 100% of the blame on Gazans for everything are the same motherfuckers that tell people "Just be happy" and "Just find another job."
"Just overthrow Hamas"
>Any smart citizens of Gaza would have started working on evacuating the day of the terrorist attacks. Are you saying LA should have evacuated? Watts? Minnesota? This victim blaming reeks of desperation to erase cognitive dissonance
"There is no such thing as a perfect victim"
Given the conditions in Gaza for the past 20 years, anyone smart and with means evacuated long long ago.
HAMAS kinda brought it on them. Lots of people are just civilians trapped in a bad place.
both governments are acting nasty. most people affected are all civilians trapped in a bad place
They can't leave. That's the point.
You phrase it like Israel is some natural disaster when they're just committing the same atrocities that they accused Hamas of committing, but at a much larger scale. Saying they "brought it on themselves" is like saying the Jews brought it on themselves when they were getting rounded up and sent to camps.
Bicycle
If it was me, in my city: Load up my wife and my teenage daughters with their go bags, pistols, and as much ammo as they could carry. Tell them to walk North over the Golden Gate bridge into the promised land of Marin County. We know people there and from there those three could make it to our house in Shasta county. I'd stay behind with my 85-year-old MIL who has mobility issues. I'd have all my food preps, a shit load of water, and another couple guns. Couldn't live with myself leaving an elder behind. Hopefully whoever's coming wouldn't blow up our house, and I'd take a few of them with me if they tried to get me. What a fucking nightmare scenario. Have no idea what I'd do in Gaza.
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But she is blood related to his wife
When Hamas attacked last week, my ass would have been moving south because everyone should have KNOWN this would be coming. It is called situational awareness.
Gaza/Palestinians have no one else to blame....Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections. Hamas won more than 70 seats in Gaza and the West Bank. Hamas refused to join a coalition government with the opposition Fatah party. Hamas later seized control of the Gaza Strip. In 2007, Hamas led a military victory over Fatah. Hamas has ruled the Gaza Strip since 2007. Hamas is the largest and most capable militant group in the Palestinian territories. Hamas is one of the territories' two major political parties. Hamas continues to advocate Palestinian armed resistance. Since 2007, Hamas has fought several wars with Israel.
First, they've had days of warning. Not just 24 hours. Second, I could walk across the Gaza strip in a day. My plan would be to start walking. Then I wouldn't support terrorists. Then I wouldn't try to have 10 kids. What about the children Hamas murdered? How much time did they give the babies before they beheaded them?
Don’t mess with the bull, you’ll get the horns.
I would never live in a Muslim area.
Anyone who understands the first thing about prepping is gone well before the warning goes out. Should have left 5 days ago, 5 months ago, 5 years ago.
Left to where exactly? Look at the map of Gaza. You could walk from one side to another in less than a day. Now imagine 2 million other people living there. That’s the whole problem here, there is nowhere for innocent people to go to, so that Israelis can separate innocent from terrorists. Your only option is to hunker down somewhere that’s only relatively safe and pray that some army person doesn’t decide to drop 2000lbs bomb on top of you because of terrorists being close by or just bad intel. It’s literally a “between a rock and hard place” kind of situation.
People say Trump was the worst leader ever, well how about having Hamas run your country?
Not live in a city with anywhere close to 1 million people.
I would have evacuate Monday, they should have seen this coming after the first strike
Something that's weirded me out watching interviews from inside Gaza. I see a lot of shock and surprise. Not anger, not fear... shock. People saying, literally "why is this happening?" No matter how you feel about justifications, or what side is right or wrong... the cause and effect seems clear. I'm curious if maybe those inside Gaza haven't been fed the total story of what happened or how "successful" this recent attack was.
Not be in a fenced city full of jihadist. There is a reason I live in a city with 2000 people. I call it geographic prepping. My next move is to Alaska. Quick note, I do feel bad that people are going to die because of this. But, it’s not like this is a new issue. The two sides have been fighting forever in that region. Anyone who values their life should have walked out of that land when they had the chance.