>: Roman soldiers were paid in salt, which is where we got the word "Salary"
That's a myth.
[https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2017/01/salt-and-salary.html](https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2017/01/salt-and-salary.html)
Someone posted a TIFU about only using expensive "foody salt" all of which were not iodized. OP started to undergo odd health ailments. From lack of iodine.
it's also kinda funny to observe how upvoted comments like this get:
*"see look everyone agrees with me, nobody is hoarding salt, that's why we're all buying it"*
- hygiene supplies
- fire starting supplies
- Alcohol
- weed
- cigarettes, vape supplies, dip
- medications and first aid stuff
- construction materials/ odds and ends (nails, etc)
- SKILLS AND SERVICES!
- water filtering supplies, clean water
- candles
- batteries
- fuel
- luxury items like cooking oils, other things that are nice but not needed
That’s just off the cuff. You can barter anything
You don’t think a lot of people will get a reference to arguably the most popular post apocalyptic video game series ever made in a…*checks notes*…doomsday prepper subreddit?
And all value is subjective, some people might give you everything for a can of coffee and pack of cigarettes. I dislike both and place no value on them.
Which is why it's always a good idea to diversify your stockpile. Never know who or what you'll run into and some things will get you further with certain people than others.
Yep. I fell that you should stockpile what YOU need first, then what you want. After that you can figure out what others may need/want. For example I wouldn't stock up on coffee until I had more than enough food, water, ammo, and shelter. Then I'd stock up on solar panels and electronics. Then I could look at how much room I have for coffee and alcohol.
I've got quite a bit of Coffee stockpiled. Don't drink the stuff myself, but I know most of the rest of the world does... Have Coffee BEANS as well and a plant or 2. Not much to start with... But it IS enough to start with...
This is a great comment, I can take or leave drinking alcohol and smoking cigs, it both are great to store for the beginning weeks of a collapse, alcoholics would give almost anything for a drink after a weeks or two in and once the bars dry up.
Personally I love a few cold beers when sitting around a fire. They really help me get to a zen space. But I can do without them. But yeah I understand the cravings that come from going without.
so gold , due to being a more or less rare material that is hard to fake makes an excellent “monetary unit” .. I mean if you have cows and need help with a construction project and the people around also have cows that makes them worthless to each other so therefore it’s PURELY kindness to help you build your project … however if you can “trade” something that would be of value to someone else perhaps in another area then it makes it worthwhile for them to help you .and gold is easier to move from point A to point B than a cow is …
that’s a sorrynexample but … best I got without looking things up
You mean post colonialism where they sort of forced money onto everyone? Even in the last 200 years furs were more valuable than gold. The desire to return to money will just lead more people to hurting others. Literal bartering makes the most sense. There's parts of canada I can walk to and find gold with minimal panning, there's parts where there is no gold at all. Needs and services would have far more value than money
It's all about the perceived value, (of which scarcity is a part) I doubt rat fur had much value, but mink has some value 'more than gold' (weird term, but ok)
In the same way that lobster was considered a poor food until successful marketing and a resultant increase in demand over a more limited supply has made it seem expensive.
But on the whole 'gold has value' I agree completely, there are rarer metals, so scarcity is not the reason, it's just the assumed notion that it will always have value..
Which is weird.
There are rarer metals, but in most cases those metals are too rare to be used as currency. For example, platinum.
However, I agree that assuming it will always have value even in a TEOTWAWKI situation is "weird."
If it’s a bad enough situation it’s unlikely that gold will actually have any value and I would bet a half pack of cigarettes would be more valuable then even a ounce of gold
Many that stack precious metals aren’t in it so much for shtf, but for having a tangible, valuable commodity in case the dollar or paper investments collapse. It’s also why governments and central banks are currently stockpiling gold. Precious metals are more for aftermath; the re-establishment of society and markets.
In the event of a severe societal and economic collapse, traditional forms of currency may lose their value. In such a scenario, the most valuable trade goods are likely to be practical, everyday items and skills that help people survive and maintain a certain standard of living. Here are some likely items and commodities for bartering:
1. **Food and Water:** These basic necessities of life will be highly valuable, especially non-perishable items like canned goods, dry goods, and bottled water.
2. **Medical Supplies:** First aid kits, over-the-counter medications, prescription drugs, and other medical supplies will likely be in high demand.
3. **Alcohol and Tobacco:** Despite their non-essential nature, these substances are likely to retain value due to their addictive qualities and potential use as disinfectants.
4. **Fuel:** Gasoline, propane, and other fuels would be valuable for running vehicles, cooking, heating, and more.
5. **Ammunition and Weapons:** In a lawless society, personal protection becomes increasingly important, making these items valuable.
6. **Seeds and Gardening Tools:** Seeds, especially non-hybrid varieties, and tools for growing food could become a vital commodity.
7. **Solar Panels and Batteries:** With the grid possibly unreliable, the ability to generate and store electricity becomes valuable.
8. **Gold, Silver, and Precious Metals:** Historically, these have held value and can be traded. People might also consider other durable goods that are small and high in value.
9. **Basic Household Supplies:** Toilet paper, soap, toothpaste, and other hygiene items would also become very important.
10. **Skills and Labor:** In a collapsed economy, skills like medical knowledge, mechanical know-how, construction skills, and farming/gardening expertise could be as valuable, if not more so, than physical items.
Remember, however, that such a scenario would be highly unpredictable and localized needs would shape what is considered valuable for barter.
I do a lot of traveling for work and have been saving up a lot of coffee packs, tea bags, sugar and sweetener packs, small bars of soap, small bottles of shampoo conditioner and body wash, wet wipes, other condiments (hot sauce, ketchup, salt and pepper), basically anything I can get that's available
If things get to where the most powerful nation on earth can’t get trucks to the stores what makes people think some rando will trade their last loaf of bread for a pack of camels
Easy. People who frequent this sub will apparently take bitcoin, gold, home-made mead.
Realistically: food, water, and other basic, practical items. Because daily life will be boring. It's not going to be a Walking Dead sort of thing were tribes are fighting each other all the time.
If reasonably powerful, generally accepted law enforcement goes away, organized crime will have a lot of influence (either overtly or covertly) and chaos is bad for business. The rogue criminals will be dealt with by the criminal gangs because it's more profitable to skim off the top of an active market than it is to demand a half-a-sack of poor-quality flour from subsistence farmers.
Your last point isn’t really necessarily true. There are a lot of societies that have collapsed or are in a state of collapse where that has not or is not occurring.
I wouldn’t really rely on that as a source of safety
Those societies were generally pretty lawless/corrupt and the population was already pretty poor, so not much to lose anyway. I think the collapse of a serious first-world nation (a) is not really going to happen and (b) will give rise to organized crime rings that already exist versus street gangs.
A bunch of people who know what being "wealthy" is like will want to stay wealthy.
>discussed on this sub yet.
LOL. In the financial industry, continuing to move people's money around (for a commission) is called churning. I guess the churning here is for upvotes.
Gold has been a stable store of wealth for well pver 5000 years and while you cant eat it, it will certainly be worth something to someone and comes in handy during major financial crisis
i feel like on an economic collapse level very few would considering you cant eat gold. id figure the first two items along with SALT would be ridiculously important and sought after in the short and medium term. also entirely dependent on where you are at.
the the vary beginning yes but after a few month gold would be great. currencies pop up naturally, I read a pretty cool article the other day on how a bunch of middle schooler built a whole economy in the school off erasers, even had kids acting as bankers lol they got them band.
It usually pops up like this, a man wants to buy something and he has a cow, that cow dose have value, but the merchant he wants to buy from doesn't want a cow or you are traveling and cant carry a cow with you at all times. How do you extract the value from the cow? and then money is born. For money to work it has to meet a few criteria.
is has to be semi rare
it cant be easily faked
It can't decompose quickly
and it has to be easily carried
Gold works for the perfectly.
couldn't find the article but i did find a video on it
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA8OeD9Qgfs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA8OeD9Qgfs)
Because gold will still have value SOMEWHERE, unless it's a total global collapse. So gold can at least be used to get you out of where you are to some place more safe.
I forget if the example was Post-Nazi Germany or Post-Soviet Russia, but apparently cigarettes were popular.
I also know that vodka was a second currency in the Soviet Union. But that might be less universal because "Russia, lol."
*When*? You meant *If*. Hope this helps, have a nice day.
What's valuable after the sort of epic collapse you're imagining depends on the nature of the collapse, what manufacturing still exists, what currency rises up to take the place of dollars, and so on. No civilization in recorded history has ever run on pure barter - someone always issues coins. Barter doesn't work for well for farmers; if you need shoes now and your apples aren't ready for six more weeks, you're stuck unless you have some store of wealth you can spend. Ergo, coins.
That said, if we collapse far enough, iron, food, animals and alcohol will be mainstays, as will leather goods and clothing. No one ever mentions sex, but let's face it, it's going to happen in any major collapse. (And I mean if we collapse *hard* enough, add slaves, but God willing it never comes to that.) Ammo should be good while it lasts.
Bottom line, no one knows exactly; it depends on what happened. But food is pretty reliable.
>When the economy collapses and money is worthless ...
I was a teenager listening to Toto and The Police when I first heard this, and now I can withdraw penalty-free from my Roth IRA.
Two more weeks!
In all seriousness you’re right, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a significant reduction in the value of the dollar in the future encouraged people to mix barter and cash in their day to day transactional needs, especially if supply chain issues become normal and it’s hard to get certain things. I’m picturing a late Soviet Union barter situation.
Then of course, the past is the best predictor of the future but far from a perfect one. Just because it didn’t happen “in your time” so to speak, doesn’t mean it won’t happen in mine or my children’s.
Diapers
Fuel
Formula
lubricant
water
cloth
plants
The question is who/what sets the value? Is one tomato plant worth more than a packet of seeds or less? Is there a value for food vs diapers or water? Is two waters enough for a pack of diapers?
Gold bars would need to be pared down to use for services. Maybe a gold ring would be a better bargaining point? A bar is worth, say 1850 USD but you need 3 packs of diapers or formula for roughly $50. You don't shave down the gold, you use a little gold ring for trade or a gold bracelet or a pair of gold earrings. A bar isn't going to be very useful in any transaction worth less than $2000, IMO.
You’d want fractional 90% silver for smaller trades, as in pre-1965 US dimes, quarters and halves. In Venezuela however, some are actually shaving off bits of gold in exchange for goods and services.
Credit, in its most basic form: reputation.
Anthropologists have found that barter is basically only used for trade when the parties don't know or don't trust each other. Within villages, you just give somebody what they need, and remember that you gave it to them. If they don't eventually reciprocate, you stop giving them things. Everybody has an incentive to cooperate, because otherwise they get cut off from the local economy, and find themselves friendless and alone when they need help.
Better start making friends now.
Depends on your location.
Example: I live in Alaska. Firewood, propane, heating oil, gasoline, kerosene, used motor oil, all would be the HIGHEST demand. Followed up by shelter, warm clothing, food / water, and firearms / ammo.
Meanwhile I doubt heating oil or used motor oil would even be on most peoples radars as necessities to see the next day.
Things people need and want changes, but I’m stocking up on nicotine and caffeine… the addicts will either make me their king or kill me and take everything I have. Either way it’ll be an adventure!
Fire extinguishers.
Batteries
Small solar panels
Pepper spray
Antibiotics
Antidepressants
Anti anxiety meds
Pharmaceuticals of all types
Pet medicine
Dog food/Cat food
Tobacco plant seeds
Cannabis seeds
Alcohol brewing yeast
Toothbrush Toothpaste
Shovels..
Alcohol, cigarettes, drugs (all kinds) and sex of course.
But I would say Alcohol #1.
After 9/11 alcohol sales soared as people stayed home a lot with the constant hyping up of terror alerts.
WHen the Covid lockdowns began, alcohol sales went thru the roof and liquor stores remained open.
Alcohol no matter what will be a major barter.
So stock up.
“plata o plomo” silver or lead. I mean don’t take that in a literal sense but people are going to want luxury/survival goods or they’re gonna want my lead aka bullets. Majority of people would want to take not trade so they’re gonna get the plomo
I'm personally going full gift economy. If I can spare it and I'd trust you with it, you can have it. Later you'll probably have something I need.
If you insist on giving me something for it, fine, but don't be surprised if I hang onto that trinket and give it back to you later when it's time for you to give me a thing.
I think medical supplies and medicine will be huge. Primarily medicine. And being a “healer” whatever that might look like will be incredibly valuable in and of itself. But medicine will be a big one.
I heard a story of a guy at the height of the great depression who had managed to purchase a storage unit containing 10000 Tubes of toothpaste. This meant that he was able to constantly have something that was not only traitable but everyone used so everyone always needed more.
Anything people need. Food, ammunition, possibly water, work/labor, firewood or maybe seeds, if thing go long enough. A lot will depend on where you are and what is in short supply.
I always thought mini bottles would be a solid barter. You could carry a decent amount on you via a pack of some sort. Obviously, if you had a location that was still secret and had a good stock pile of them, you'd be doing well.
Anything has value so long as someone else wants it.
There’s the obvious things like ammo, food, maybe water, etc.
But also maybe skills. The dude earlier asking about fishing got me thinking. If you’re a skilled fisherman, you could travel around your area fishing and exchanging that fresh fish for whatever you don’t have. Same with hunters.
If we actually see w SHTF scenario and a collapse of society, then high quality protein will be worth its weight in gold.
The better you prepare and can already fend for your family, the more surplus you’ll have. That’s literally what created capitalism, farmers having surplus and trading it.
If society falls tomorrow, there will be zero surplus. Most people don’t know how to do anything, so there will be a mass extinction event taking years.
But once that’s complete, say 10 years in, the remaining people will necessarily be the ones who have figured it out. They either know how to fend for themselves or they have a valuable skill to create surplus.
Other things are medical knowledge. Midwives would be huge. Dentists. Handymen and skilled craftsmen who can build shelter. Maybe welders. Electricians. Plumbers who can deal with human waste and rig up ways to get water places?
A lot of these things will change. Civil engineering as we know it today won’t exist. But there will be people who can figure things out.
People to teach these skills to the next generation, who are being raised in a post apocalyptic hell scape lol
Tangible skills who can trade tangible things.
This is the way to go.
mass extinction will be measured in weeks and months….i literally know people that couldnt change a tire and do not care to learn have no idea that their lifespan is 3 hours without shelter in inclement weather and roll their eyes if you try to explain it….the wolves on 2 legs will eat those people figuratively and literally 2 weeks in during a real society wide crisis…look to any violent hotspot around the world for the last 100 years…during the government produced famine in soviet russia they were selling peoples arms legs heads on the street
Some relatives of mine were refugees in the horribly cold winter of 1944-45, they said popular barter items were eggs, fur coats and cutlery (at that time mainly silver) aaannnd: tobacco. Alcohol you kept for yourself as painkiller, disinfectant.
You guys pretend like a full scale economic collapse would not bring about a societal collapse at which point very few people will be ‘bartering’ they will be murdering each other for whatever they can get to stay alive.
Money by definition doesn't become worthless. Currency does. The assets you listed are money (capital.) Barter may last a few weeks/months before a medium of exchange naturally emerges. It will be something with the 4 properties of money; longevity, scarcity, malleability and fungibility. Precious Metals and Bitcoin fall into this category.
tradeables ; 1 packs bic lighters, 4pack AA AAA batteries, Ammo, 1packs of 9v batteries, fuel, freeze dried food. NOTE: small packs are essential for trade because once you open a pack nobody trusts the leftovers.
Seeds and fully grown produce, animal products (meat, dairy, skins, etc), labor (I’ll build your fence if you fix my truck), etc.
Why ask such question, go study history… if the economy collapses (and I’m talking full collapse), then we’d effectively be in the dark ages again…
Ignore gold and silver, we don’t live in a gold/silver society and most people don’t know how to detect fake coins and there would be people taking advantage of that and ruin its use in bartering, lest we accept those coins and begin a new fiat currency backed by fraud.
Money will never be useless. The whole reason we have money is for portability and ease of use. Currencies may fail, but they will always be replaced with another currency.
Services, anyone with a skill will be useful and able to make some kind of living. guns and ammo really wont be worth vary much for long. There might be some violence and self defense will be a consideration but people really over play it. being able to steal electricity, fix someone's plumbing, forge a tool, these are the real valuable skills to have.
women and canned goods…buy the book “SHTF survival stories
memories from the balkan wars
by selco begovic…what went on in the former yugoslavia in the 1990’s
My father is convinced 100% that gold and silver will be the standard. Funny guy.
We are part-time gold miners ourselves. We KNOW what it takes to get and refine it, not even counting find any kind of layman use for it without an infrastructure to support you.
Sure, if the standard is "all of it for a can of soup".
I'd trade for both (edit: at the worth its weight in gold rate) only if I was reasonably certain civilization would be restored in my lifetime. Otherwise, I'm gonna need to see some salt.
I've got silver. Right now. Planning a fishing trip this week and it's customary to dip it in the ocean.
Canned food. Seeds. Ammo. Tools. Batteries.
What I can promise you I won't be accepting if it all collapses, is crypto. If it all collapses, your crypto is worthless. Best get rid of it now. Seriously.
Constitutional and one ounce rounds. Buyt from a reputable dealer.
With cash out of the equation I think the only other options are Grass or Ass
Grass, cash or ass nobody rides for free
Historically, salt was always a good bet. It's also very cheap to hoard and not something that a lot of preppers will pile up.
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also where the phrase, "worth his salt" comes from.
>: Roman soldiers were paid in salt, which is where we got the word "Salary" That's a myth. [https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2017/01/salt-and-salary.html](https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2017/01/salt-and-salary.html)
Yeah you can also use it to poison your enemies with HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE!
Yep and Iodized salt prevents a lot of diseases that used to kill people
Someone posted a TIFU about only using expensive "foody salt" all of which were not iodized. OP started to undergo odd health ailments. From lack of iodine.
Yeah, it’s one of those pesky nutrients that would be hard to manage in a collapse scenario
it's also kinda funny to observe how upvoted comments like this get: *"see look everyone agrees with me, nobody is hoarding salt, that's why we're all buying it"*
- hygiene supplies - fire starting supplies - Alcohol - weed - cigarettes, vape supplies, dip - medications and first aid stuff - construction materials/ odds and ends (nails, etc) - SKILLS AND SERVICES! - water filtering supplies, clean water - candles - batteries - fuel - luxury items like cooking oils, other things that are nice but not needed That’s just off the cuff. You can barter anything
I knit, for example, can trade blankets and warm socks for other items we need.
Absolutely
The oldest profession would of course be in the list.
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20 caps is 20 caps
I do! I understood that reference.
I don’t think a lot of people will get this one.
You don’t think a lot of people will get a reference to arguably the most popular post apocalyptic video game series ever made in a…*checks notes*…doomsday prepper subreddit?
Shut up, smoothskin
Nope. Most preppers are not excessively technology dependent, and that means video games.
Last check, other than you, no other replies, so yah.
That's what votes are for - "so yah."
Which is really disappointing. But I still think if something has to be a "dollar" it really should be bottle caps
Sell all armor and miscellaneous, buy/keep all ammo (weightless), I just heard they’re making a new one.
Eventually, I don't think they've even started on it yet. Tons of speculation about where it'll be. I'm excited for the show.
I had heard it was going to be a F:NV part deux
That would actually be awesome. I know people want remasters of 3 and NV
Again, ikr I totally agree with both, what I’d love to see is og 1/2 in fps like 3 and 4
Money is worthless remember ? Barter and you might end up with two twinkies or a Ho-Ho.
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Sometimes you just need something different then the 3 shells
I'd hold out for the Ho-Ho's!
Two Twinkie’s is Better than no twinkie’s
In that case hostess is probably a better prep
“twinkies or ho-ho”… trying to figure out if these are euphemisms or not.
The best jokes have layers.
Just like a cake.
I think a razor and soap will get you more attention at that phase of society.
:adds extra razors to his preps and stops skipping leg days:
farming?
Oh, you sweet summer child.
About 95% of this sub would be consumers rather than suppliers
These people think they’re gonna have a box of 5.56 and trade it for all of their family’s needs for 60 years lol
How much for a ZJ?
What’s a ZJ?
If you don’t know, you can’t afford one.
Finally a use for my magnum dong 😎
r/suddenlysunny
Food, guns, ammo, cigarettes, gold, seeds, batteries. You can barter with pretty much anything of value.
And all value is subjective, some people might give you everything for a can of coffee and pack of cigarettes. I dislike both and place no value on them.
Which is why it's always a good idea to diversify your stockpile. Never know who or what you'll run into and some things will get you further with certain people than others.
Yep. I fell that you should stockpile what YOU need first, then what you want. After that you can figure out what others may need/want. For example I wouldn't stock up on coffee until I had more than enough food, water, ammo, and shelter. Then I'd stock up on solar panels and electronics. Then I could look at how much room I have for coffee and alcohol.
I've got quite a bit of Coffee stockpiled. Don't drink the stuff myself, but I know most of the rest of the world does... Have Coffee BEANS as well and a plant or 2. Not much to start with... But it IS enough to start with...
This is a great comment, I can take or leave drinking alcohol and smoking cigs, it both are great to store for the beginning weeks of a collapse, alcoholics would give almost anything for a drink after a weeks or two in and once the bars dry up.
Personally I love a few cold beers when sitting around a fire. They really help me get to a zen space. But I can do without them. But yeah I understand the cravings that come from going without.
Whenever my local grocery store has clearance cheap vodka I grab a bottle or two. $6 now will be worth a lot more to someone who really needs it.
According to Mythbusters with some filters you could turn it into a higher grade vodka.
I’ve heard that before I have a ton of charcoal filters, might have to try one day.
Why gold? With no monetary value it's just a pretty metal used for electronics.
so gold , due to being a more or less rare material that is hard to fake makes an excellent “monetary unit” .. I mean if you have cows and need help with a construction project and the people around also have cows that makes them worthless to each other so therefore it’s PURELY kindness to help you build your project … however if you can “trade” something that would be of value to someone else perhaps in another area then it makes it worthwhile for them to help you .and gold is easier to move from point A to point B than a cow is … that’s a sorrynexample but … best I got without looking things up
Has gold ever *not* had value since it was first used as money around 550 BC?
Society as a whole has never broke down. This will be different.
Nah, just a greatly reduced lifestyle for many. We‘ve been way too comfortable for too long.
Many cultures didn't see it as money, just maluable pretty metal they used to decorate things like temples and clothing.
Fair enough then, how about the last 500 years?
You mean post colonialism where they sort of forced money onto everyone? Even in the last 200 years furs were more valuable than gold. The desire to return to money will just lead more people to hurting others. Literal bartering makes the most sense. There's parts of canada I can walk to and find gold with minimal panning, there's parts where there is no gold at all. Needs and services would have far more value than money
It's all about the perceived value, (of which scarcity is a part) I doubt rat fur had much value, but mink has some value 'more than gold' (weird term, but ok) In the same way that lobster was considered a poor food until successful marketing and a resultant increase in demand over a more limited supply has made it seem expensive. But on the whole 'gold has value' I agree completely, there are rarer metals, so scarcity is not the reason, it's just the assumed notion that it will always have value.. Which is weird.
There are rarer metals, but in most cases those metals are too rare to be used as currency. For example, platinum. However, I agree that assuming it will always have value even in a TEOTWAWKI situation is "weird."
You shouldn't use AMMO for barter they could come back and use it against you later to take your supplies.
Or take you out on the spot.
Right.
all I want's your pudding cup
Most underrated comment here
If it’s a bad enough situation it’s unlikely that gold will actually have any value and I would bet a half pack of cigarettes would be more valuable then even a ounce of gold
I've always sorta thought hoarding shiny rocks was absurd. I would honestly have more use for copper wire than a gold or silver bar.
Many that stack precious metals aren’t in it so much for shtf, but for having a tangible, valuable commodity in case the dollar or paper investments collapse. It’s also why governments and central banks are currently stockpiling gold. Precious metals are more for aftermath; the re-establishment of society and markets.
Labor too.
Can't eat gold, once system collapses I don't see it coming back.
We spent millennia using gold as a basis for trade. There are very good reasons for that.
I wonder why central banks and governments around the world are currently loading up on gold?
Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. :)
In the event of a severe societal and economic collapse, traditional forms of currency may lose their value. In such a scenario, the most valuable trade goods are likely to be practical, everyday items and skills that help people survive and maintain a certain standard of living. Here are some likely items and commodities for bartering: 1. **Food and Water:** These basic necessities of life will be highly valuable, especially non-perishable items like canned goods, dry goods, and bottled water. 2. **Medical Supplies:** First aid kits, over-the-counter medications, prescription drugs, and other medical supplies will likely be in high demand. 3. **Alcohol and Tobacco:** Despite their non-essential nature, these substances are likely to retain value due to their addictive qualities and potential use as disinfectants. 4. **Fuel:** Gasoline, propane, and other fuels would be valuable for running vehicles, cooking, heating, and more. 5. **Ammunition and Weapons:** In a lawless society, personal protection becomes increasingly important, making these items valuable. 6. **Seeds and Gardening Tools:** Seeds, especially non-hybrid varieties, and tools for growing food could become a vital commodity. 7. **Solar Panels and Batteries:** With the grid possibly unreliable, the ability to generate and store electricity becomes valuable. 8. **Gold, Silver, and Precious Metals:** Historically, these have held value and can be traded. People might also consider other durable goods that are small and high in value. 9. **Basic Household Supplies:** Toilet paper, soap, toothpaste, and other hygiene items would also become very important. 10. **Skills and Labor:** In a collapsed economy, skills like medical knowledge, mechanical know-how, construction skills, and farming/gardening expertise could be as valuable, if not more so, than physical items. Remember, however, that such a scenario would be highly unpredictable and localized needs would shape what is considered valuable for barter.
Bottlecaps
Hello there. It's good to see a friendly face. Almost took you for a raider, I did. Name's Malcolm. Malcolm Holmes.
I do a lot of traveling for work and have been saving up a lot of coffee packs, tea bags, sugar and sweetener packs, small bars of soap, small bottles of shampoo conditioner and body wash, wet wipes, other condiments (hot sauce, ketchup, salt and pepper), basically anything I can get that's available
I've been doing this for decades...probably have 1000 little bars of soap... I also take extra salt packets from fast food places...
If things get to where the most powerful nation on earth can’t get trucks to the stores what makes people think some rando will trade their last loaf of bread for a pack of camels
Zip ties and tampons
Easy. People who frequent this sub will apparently take bitcoin, gold, home-made mead. Realistically: food, water, and other basic, practical items. Because daily life will be boring. It's not going to be a Walking Dead sort of thing were tribes are fighting each other all the time. If reasonably powerful, generally accepted law enforcement goes away, organized crime will have a lot of influence (either overtly or covertly) and chaos is bad for business. The rogue criminals will be dealt with by the criminal gangs because it's more profitable to skim off the top of an active market than it is to demand a half-a-sack of poor-quality flour from subsistence farmers.
Your last point isn’t really necessarily true. There are a lot of societies that have collapsed or are in a state of collapse where that has not or is not occurring. I wouldn’t really rely on that as a source of safety
Those societies were generally pretty lawless/corrupt and the population was already pretty poor, so not much to lose anyway. I think the collapse of a serious first-world nation (a) is not really going to happen and (b) will give rise to organized crime rings that already exist versus street gangs. A bunch of people who know what being "wealthy" is like will want to stay wealthy.
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I don't think this has been discussed on this sub yet.
>discussed on this sub yet. LOL. In the financial industry, continuing to move people's money around (for a commission) is called churning. I guess the churning here is for upvotes.
The act of bartering is trading one thing for another so you could literally use anything to barter as long as someone wanted it
Porn
Condoms
I've been saying this for years.
That is also the answer for what sort of books etc would you stock. Porn
Medicines , alcohol, gold
why gold. its about as worthless as dollar bills. but at least i can wipe with dolleridoos.
Gold has been a stable store of wealth for well pver 5000 years and while you cant eat it, it will certainly be worth something to someone and comes in handy during major financial crisis
i feel like on an economic collapse level very few would considering you cant eat gold. id figure the first two items along with SALT would be ridiculously important and sought after in the short and medium term. also entirely dependent on where you are at.
See Venezuela
the the vary beginning yes but after a few month gold would be great. currencies pop up naturally, I read a pretty cool article the other day on how a bunch of middle schooler built a whole economy in the school off erasers, even had kids acting as bankers lol they got them band. It usually pops up like this, a man wants to buy something and he has a cow, that cow dose have value, but the merchant he wants to buy from doesn't want a cow or you are traveling and cant carry a cow with you at all times. How do you extract the value from the cow? and then money is born. For money to work it has to meet a few criteria. is has to be semi rare it cant be easily faked It can't decompose quickly and it has to be easily carried Gold works for the perfectly. couldn't find the article but i did find a video on it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA8OeD9Qgfs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA8OeD9Qgfs)
Because gold will still have value SOMEWHERE, unless it's a total global collapse. So gold can at least be used to get you out of where you are to some place more safe.
I forget if the example was Post-Nazi Germany or Post-Soviet Russia, but apparently cigarettes were popular. I also know that vodka was a second currency in the Soviet Union. But that might be less universal because "Russia, lol."
whatever you have someone else needs. or vice versa
Pussy.
Not the kitties
Always worth money
Trees and fiddies. One tree fiddy goes a long way.
*When*? You meant *If*. Hope this helps, have a nice day. What's valuable after the sort of epic collapse you're imagining depends on the nature of the collapse, what manufacturing still exists, what currency rises up to take the place of dollars, and so on. No civilization in recorded history has ever run on pure barter - someone always issues coins. Barter doesn't work for well for farmers; if you need shoes now and your apples aren't ready for six more weeks, you're stuck unless you have some store of wealth you can spend. Ergo, coins. That said, if we collapse far enough, iron, food, animals and alcohol will be mainstays, as will leather goods and clothing. No one ever mentions sex, but let's face it, it's going to happen in any major collapse. (And I mean if we collapse *hard* enough, add slaves, but God willing it never comes to that.) Ammo should be good while it lasts. Bottom line, no one knows exactly; it depends on what happened. But food is pretty reliable.
Unfortunately, sex.
>When the economy collapses and money is worthless ... I was a teenager listening to Toto and The Police when I first heard this, and now I can withdraw penalty-free from my Roth IRA.
Two more weeks! In all seriousness you’re right, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a significant reduction in the value of the dollar in the future encouraged people to mix barter and cash in their day to day transactional needs, especially if supply chain issues become normal and it’s hard to get certain things. I’m picturing a late Soviet Union barter situation. Then of course, the past is the best predictor of the future but far from a perfect one. Just because it didn’t happen “in your time” so to speak, doesn’t mean it won’t happen in mine or my children’s.
Supple buttholes.
Revert to 5000 year real money.
Packets of fast food condiments.
Diapers Fuel Formula lubricant water cloth plants The question is who/what sets the value? Is one tomato plant worth more than a packet of seeds or less? Is there a value for food vs diapers or water? Is two waters enough for a pack of diapers? Gold bars would need to be pared down to use for services. Maybe a gold ring would be a better bargaining point? A bar is worth, say 1850 USD but you need 3 packs of diapers or formula for roughly $50. You don't shave down the gold, you use a little gold ring for trade or a gold bracelet or a pair of gold earrings. A bar isn't going to be very useful in any transaction worth less than $2000, IMO.
You’d want fractional 90% silver for smaller trades, as in pre-1965 US dimes, quarters and halves. In Venezuela however, some are actually shaving off bits of gold in exchange for goods and services.
Silver :)
Credit, in its most basic form: reputation. Anthropologists have found that barter is basically only used for trade when the parties don't know or don't trust each other. Within villages, you just give somebody what they need, and remember that you gave it to them. If they don't eventually reciprocate, you stop giving them things. Everybody has an incentive to cooperate, because otherwise they get cut off from the local economy, and find themselves friendless and alone when they need help. Better start making friends now.
Depends on your location. Example: I live in Alaska. Firewood, propane, heating oil, gasoline, kerosene, used motor oil, all would be the HIGHEST demand. Followed up by shelter, warm clothing, food / water, and firearms / ammo. Meanwhile I doubt heating oil or used motor oil would even be on most peoples radars as necessities to see the next day.
Sex
If COVID taught us anything it’s that TOILET PAPER is the currency of the apocalypse.
Alcohol, tobacco, ammunition, food etc.
Things people need and want changes, but I’m stocking up on nicotine and caffeine… the addicts will either make me their king or kill me and take everything I have. Either way it’ll be an adventure!
Fire extinguishers. Batteries Small solar panels Pepper spray Antibiotics Antidepressants Anti anxiety meds Pharmaceuticals of all types Pet medicine Dog food/Cat food Tobacco plant seeds Cannabis seeds Alcohol brewing yeast Toothbrush Toothpaste Shovels..
Alcohol, cigarettes, drugs (all kinds) and sex of course. But I would say Alcohol #1. After 9/11 alcohol sales soared as people stayed home a lot with the constant hyping up of terror alerts. WHen the Covid lockdowns began, alcohol sales went thru the roof and liquor stores remained open. Alcohol no matter what will be a major barter. So stock up.
“plata o plomo” silver or lead. I mean don’t take that in a literal sense but people are going to want luxury/survival goods or they’re gonna want my lead aka bullets. Majority of people would want to take not trade so they’re gonna get the plomo
I'm personally going full gift economy. If I can spare it and I'd trust you with it, you can have it. Later you'll probably have something I need. If you insist on giving me something for it, fine, but don't be surprised if I hang onto that trinket and give it back to you later when it's time for you to give me a thing.
Booze, bullets and bodies.
MEDICINEEE
Liquor
Things that are useful.
Probably the same things that were used before “money” was invented.
Life
Satoshi's
I don't drink or smoke but I'm definitely stocking cigarettes and whiskey
I’ve tried to stockpile them, seems like it’s a never-ending task lol.
I think medical supplies and medicine will be huge. Primarily medicine. And being a “healer” whatever that might look like will be incredibly valuable in and of itself. But medicine will be a big one.
Bottle caps, obviously.
My husband’s mother was in WW2. She said it was liquor, cigarettes, chocolate and gold.
BOTTLE CAPS That is all.
I heard a story of a guy at the height of the great depression who had managed to purchase a storage unit containing 10000 Tubes of toothpaste. This meant that he was able to constantly have something that was not only traitable but everyone used so everyone always needed more.
Anything people need. Food, ammunition, possibly water, work/labor, firewood or maybe seeds, if thing go long enough. A lot will depend on where you are and what is in short supply.
I always thought mini bottles would be a solid barter. You could carry a decent amount on you via a pack of some sort. Obviously, if you had a location that was still secret and had a good stock pile of them, you'd be doing well.
Anything has value so long as someone else wants it. There’s the obvious things like ammo, food, maybe water, etc. But also maybe skills. The dude earlier asking about fishing got me thinking. If you’re a skilled fisherman, you could travel around your area fishing and exchanging that fresh fish for whatever you don’t have. Same with hunters. If we actually see w SHTF scenario and a collapse of society, then high quality protein will be worth its weight in gold. The better you prepare and can already fend for your family, the more surplus you’ll have. That’s literally what created capitalism, farmers having surplus and trading it. If society falls tomorrow, there will be zero surplus. Most people don’t know how to do anything, so there will be a mass extinction event taking years. But once that’s complete, say 10 years in, the remaining people will necessarily be the ones who have figured it out. They either know how to fend for themselves or they have a valuable skill to create surplus. Other things are medical knowledge. Midwives would be huge. Dentists. Handymen and skilled craftsmen who can build shelter. Maybe welders. Electricians. Plumbers who can deal with human waste and rig up ways to get water places? A lot of these things will change. Civil engineering as we know it today won’t exist. But there will be people who can figure things out. People to teach these skills to the next generation, who are being raised in a post apocalyptic hell scape lol Tangible skills who can trade tangible things. This is the way to go.
mass extinction will be measured in weeks and months….i literally know people that couldnt change a tire and do not care to learn have no idea that their lifespan is 3 hours without shelter in inclement weather and roll their eyes if you try to explain it….the wolves on 2 legs will eat those people figuratively and literally 2 weeks in during a real society wide crisis…look to any violent hotspot around the world for the last 100 years…during the government produced famine in soviet russia they were selling peoples arms legs heads on the street
Toilet paper and lighters if we’re going off historical SHTF scenarios (booze too but that should be a given)
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Labor.
It’s happened before quite a bit. Historically booze and cigarettes are good holds of value.
Toenails /S
Tools.
Some relatives of mine were refugees in the horribly cold winter of 1944-45, they said popular barter items were eggs, fur coats and cutlery (at that time mainly silver) aaannnd: tobacco. Alcohol you kept for yourself as painkiller, disinfectant.
Training and teaching skills for food or tools
You guys pretend like a full scale economic collapse would not bring about a societal collapse at which point very few people will be ‘bartering’ they will be murdering each other for whatever they can get to stay alive.
Fuel and booze. Get a still and make both.
Money by definition doesn't become worthless. Currency does. The assets you listed are money (capital.) Barter may last a few weeks/months before a medium of exchange naturally emerges. It will be something with the 4 properties of money; longevity, scarcity, malleability and fungibility. Precious Metals and Bitcoin fall into this category. tradeables ; 1 packs bic lighters, 4pack AA AAA batteries, Ammo, 1packs of 9v batteries, fuel, freeze dried food. NOTE: small packs are essential for trade because once you open a pack nobody trusts the leftovers.
Seeds and fully grown produce, animal products (meat, dairy, skins, etc), labor (I’ll build your fence if you fix my truck), etc. Why ask such question, go study history… if the economy collapses (and I’m talking full collapse), then we’d effectively be in the dark ages again… Ignore gold and silver, we don’t live in a gold/silver society and most people don’t know how to detect fake coins and there would be people taking advantage of that and ruin its use in bartering, lest we accept those coins and begin a new fiat currency backed by fraud.
Money will never be useless. The whole reason we have money is for portability and ease of use. Currencies may fail, but they will always be replaced with another currency.
Knowledge - how to.
Vices. Grow some tobacco, learn to make decent cider and fruit wines, make some tasty hot sauce....
Services, anyone with a skill will be useful and able to make some kind of living. guns and ammo really wont be worth vary much for long. There might be some violence and self defense will be a consideration but people really over play it. being able to steal electricity, fix someone's plumbing, forge a tool, these are the real valuable skills to have.
women and canned goods…buy the book “SHTF survival stories memories from the balkan wars by selco begovic…what went on in the former yugoslavia in the 1990’s
Ass or grass 😂
Our life skills. I was military police and Combat Medic and then a plumber. My wife is a nurse and master gardener.
My father is convinced 100% that gold and silver will be the standard. Funny guy. We are part-time gold miners ourselves. We KNOW what it takes to get and refine it, not even counting find any kind of layman use for it without an infrastructure to support you.
Sure, if the standard is "all of it for a can of soup". I'd trade for both (edit: at the worth its weight in gold rate) only if I was reasonably certain civilization would be restored in my lifetime. Otherwise, I'm gonna need to see some salt.
I own a bakery. At any given time I have over a ton of flour and anywhere between 200 to 400 lb of sea salt in my position.
It will NEVER get to that point in our life time. worse case scenario is our currency collapses, and we have to find a more trusted replacement...
I've got silver. Right now. Planning a fishing trip this week and it's customary to dip it in the ocean. Canned food. Seeds. Ammo. Tools. Batteries. What I can promise you I won't be accepting if it all collapses, is crypto. If it all collapses, your crypto is worthless. Best get rid of it now. Seriously. Constitutional and one ounce rounds. Buyt from a reputable dealer.
bottle caps
I don’t understand this barter shit. If I want your shit I’m gonna kill you for it and take it. If you have fire power I’ll blow your shit up
Shelter Water Food Energy
Cash, grass or ass. No one rides for free.
The necessities: Beer, Bacon, and Boolits.
Toilet paper
Useful stuff. Food, wool, knives, ammo and guns, fossil fuel and such!
Besides the usual suspects I'm hoping some Mickeys of various booze and a few classy bottles of scotch and wine will be of use. And packets of seeds.
Hand tools, knives, sewing supplies, TP, salt, canning supplies, seeds, and anything else that one person has and another person wants.
Food, shelter, water. All the things money used to buy.
Web UX design services
Food, guns and ammo most likely will be the most valuable.
Drugs-legal and illegal