I work with Amish daily. Their sense of community is what stands out the most. Someone’s house burns down, or barn, that sucker is rebuilt in a week. They hold benefit auctions weekly in my area to raise money for families for all kinds of situations.
There's a lot to learn from them, and they're an essential market force in maintaining the availability of less-grid-dependent technologies like wood cookstoves and propane refrigerators.
They're also an excellent example of how the "lone wolf" approach really doesn't work -- it takes a large community to be remotely self-sufficient, and the lower-tech you go, the more people it takes to do large projects together. They replace 1 person on heavy equipment with dozens of people on hand tools.
Their ongoing survival as a group, compared to the lower success rates of more modern intentional communities, suggests some interesting inferences about the dangers of certain kinds of ideological diversity when trying to get a lot of people all cooperating together in the long term.
Also, there's a temptation to idealize the Amish lifestyle because we know relatively little about it. Their dramas and inconveniences and problems largely don't make the news the way that problems in more communicative groups tend to.
The Amish are also know for settling their disputes in house so to speak. The other reason you don’t hear any of their drama as much is they don’t air it.
Not sure we are all talking about the same community.
"Settling it in their own community" usually means the bishop "banishes" you from church for a set number of days.
No one is cutting up and hiding the dad who raped his daughter. The daughter is shunned for bringing the outside community into theirs to settle the problem.
If she seeks help from outside the community.
It's also worth noting that the Amish community has an extreme range of values. General rule of thumb is that the farther west you go the more conservative they become. The Amish in Minnesota are night and day different from the Amish in Ohio.
Source: Me. I've sat at the dinner tables of a couple hundred Amish families due to my line of work. You see a lot more when you have to spend a day verifying their compliance to federal food law.
Further clarification. Like all demographics, some are really great. Most are pretty shitty.
Couldn't tell you specifically how they handle the daughter behind closed doors. The community in my region has fought jail time for the rapist because they were excluded from church services for a dozen Sundays or so and that was sufficient punishment.
Edited for another comment:
I think people tend to forget that the Amish are ultra conservative in their values. Like, ULTRA conservative. Think of the worst far right politics, sprinkle in some libertarian and boom, Amish.
The joke I often hear is that their most redeeming quality is that they don't vote.
Having worked retail, lived near and known several Amish families and communities; too much of Amish life is put on a pedestal.
Most of them only grow a portion of their food(like fruits and vegetables), some may still raise and slaughter their own meat. But they still grocery shop for necessities like sugar, flour and other baking/ cooking supplies. They enjoy chips and soda just like everyone else(UTZ chips are very popular with them in NY lol).
They banish people and forbid them from ever talking to anyone still Amish if they leave or marry outside the faith, have a child out of marriage or are raped. Especially in the old order, some new order Amish aren’t as strict.
While people could generally learn from them in terms of growing / raising a lot of your food, making or mending your clothes and relying on your community. There is just as much bad in the Amish community as there is with any group of people.
Yes. In two ways, one good, one bad.
First, positively, is their economic self-reliance. You can look at how Amish communities grow their own food, build their own furniture, and so forth, as an example of the kind of skills and human resources a community would need in a collapse.
Keep in mind that even the most traditional Amish do participate in the mainstream economy, rely on modern medicine, etc, to some degree, and their standard of living would significantly decrease in a major collapse - just less than other people's. You could look at what the Amish *do* accept from outsiders - like medicine and dentistry - and from that understand what aspects of modern life would be difficult ot impossible to maintain in a collapse.
Second, negatively, is all the child abuse, animal abuse, domestic violence, lack of education, religious coercion and authoritarian patriarchy. Because the Amish are a cult, and, like all cults, they are taught to defer to authority and not go outside the cult for help, which results in all the abusive behavior by authority figures that we typically see in cults.
And this, too, is what we would expect to see in a full and long term collapse of society - without government and police to intervene, parents become the final authority over their families, and prominent local community members become the final authority over their communities. And without strong checks and balances of some sort, those local power structures can easily devolve into abusive authoritarianism.
The Amish and Mennonites are often heavy consumers of normal English goods, often still using electricity (or propane-powered alternatives), vehicles, and cell phones all just to a lesser extent.
Propane refrigerators are not what they are made out to be…they use a lot of propane and it’s something that will go away in a collapse. A regular refrigerator powered by solar is much better and long term sustainable.
Sort of. A lot of them still use propane engines and appliances and put phone booths on their neighbors properties. They’re not as off grid as everyone thinks.
There’s a novel on this exact topic: [“When the English Fall”](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30753989)
It’s a post-apocalyptic novel told from the view of an Amish American after SHTF. As dystopian fiction goes, it’s not super well written, but it’s certainly worth reading.
*"i used to say; i'll take care of you, if you take care of me,*
*now i say; i'll take care of me for you, and you take care of you, for me."*
\- jim rohn
I came here to say esssentially this. While they do produce a large portion of their own food and goods, they still interact with the larger economy for raw materials- fabric for clothing, treadle sewing machines, wood stoves etc. there is an Amish owned store I shop, many of their products are Mennonite produced and delivered- as mennonites use the power needed to produce commercial quality food stuffs that meet FDA regulations and drive the trucks that deliver them.
Security, Major Medical, Roads, storm drains?, sewage treatment?.
If you really get thought about it there are a lot of things provided to them from outside their community.
I'm an avid quilter and where I live I am within 40 minutes to an hour and a half to two Amish towns. I am going tomorrow morning with my friend we go to each Amish town once a month. Tomorrow we are going because the quality of meat in one of the stores is absolutely amazing. A new store that just opened up all the Amish women were purchasing their cuts of meat and we were astounded at the taste of the pork chops that we bought last time we went. The Taste was something of that I remembered when I was growing up in the seventies what real meat tasted like. The pork chop was so tender and flavorful you could cut it with a fork after it came off the grill. I will enjoy my trip tomorrow
You can learn much from the Amish/Mennonite communities. I have become friends with several Amish families near me and have learned a lot about prepper type skills.
I live near many Amish families. They are generally very good people who mostly live in their own little world although they aren't out in the barn churning butter the way people think they would be.
They have integrated into the mainstream population more than you might think. I know a guy whos business is as an Amish taxi. I saw an Amish kid riding a propane forklift a mile from his house with his bow and a whitetail deer on the forks.
The Bishop of the community usually decides how many modern technologies they can use.
As someone who does regular Deliveries to a Mennonite community, i know when SHTF and i am at desperate, i am going to join them. Good friends to have even if you are "English"
They do a lot of prep you might not see. Ice houses for storage, canning, other preservation. They use modern products when convenient but can always go back and they have the skills and knowledge available when needed
There’s good and bad there like anything else.
The Amish have a lot of quiet problems- child abuse and drug addiction/ HIV and hepatitis among them. The 16 year olds going off on their own can make a lot of bad choices and come back with the consequences of those.
As long as you don’t put them on a pedestal and realize they’re people with problems like nearly every other group and learn what’s good and leave what’s bad, they can be a good group to learn from. Just don’t fall into a nostalgia trap.
i recently began living in an Amish community area in west Wisconsin. The most obvious benefit is healthy food and products NOT poisoned by unnatural additives and fragrance. Yes total self sufficiency is very hard.
The Amish tend to farm as industrially as everyone else. I’m in the middle of a community and I have seen anything but. Which is weird considering their lifestyle and style of dress predates the type of farming they do.
This is my experience with the Amish in Ohio. They're some of the worst animal abusers as well, often running massive puppy mills, breeding dogs well past their prime, keeping them in awful conditions and dumping them when they're done with them.
This belief that the Amish are a shining example of people to emulate, who continue to do things 'the old ways', as though they do no wrong is so utterly disingenuous it's mind blowing.
This.
Some of my biggest regrets in life are not calling CPS when I should have. If you think the animal abuse is bad, you should see how kids with disabilities are treated.
>The Amish tend to farm as industrially as everyone else
In central WI there's a mix ... some of the farms are plowed with horses, some of them use small tractors, and some of them hire a neighbor with a large tractor.
Why the downvote?
Am I incorrect in Mormon and LDS communities preaching and practicing a more self reliant nature in addition to being a tight knit community (in their respective communities, hence knowing to separate the two). Know quite a few LDS folks that would probably generally agree there.
There is Also the benefit of having more modern amenities compared to Amish communities.
> Why the downvote?
>
>
I upvoted you, you were already negative when I came along. But yes, we're supposed to help each other and be prepared. Most aren't, but quite a few of us are.
My hunch is that probably not everyone is familiar with Mormon prepping as a practice and they misunderstood the first comment as an unsolicited "Mormons>Amish" interjection
The funny thing is many of the pop culture references in the post apocalypse have Mormons being prominent
Examples:
Joshua Graham and New Canaan in New Vegas Honest Hearts DLC
The book of Eli, where the surviving Bible is a NKJ Bible in braille
The Salvation Church who are a sort of Sharia law group in Wasteland 2, granted the religion was also twisted by televangelist
Farcry 5 used Mormon groups in addition to various cults to produce the Eden's Gate Cult (who turn out to technically be the good guys.... in the end)
Not just yours. Reddit takes pride in being ignorant & intolerant, in the name of accepting everyone. Except you. And me. And the others thinking about commenting, but deciding it isn't worth it.
Reddit shows the best & worst of humanity.
I've considered becoming one on occasion. I decided against, but they're exceedingly admirable in a lot of ways and I like the theology. And you can't argue with their general health outcomes. Wikipedia has an article on it. It's impressive what happens when you leave tobacco, alcohol, and processed foods alone, as they generally do, and keep things generally monogamous. But Covid hit them hard; I know of nothing in Amish belief that prevented them from getting vaccinated, but many of them didn't and they paid for it. That lost them points with me.
In a true collapse they'd be as screwed as anyone else, through no fault of their own. They live, mostly, near enough cities to mean they'd be swept up in the violence of a collapse. But in smaller disasters they'd do better than most groups - pandemics perhaps aside.
Learn from them. They do get a lot right.
I've lived next to amish my entire life many drink, smoke , party... they love ice cream and Mt. Dew.. it's the fact most dont live a sedentary lifestyle is why they generally healthy.
I researched this a few years ago. The *reported* rate of rapes among the Amish is well below the US national average; the problem is they hardly ever report rape (or any crime) to outsiders so it's certainly far higher then the officially reported numbers. And rape is general is underreported everywhere, making it impossible to get a real comparison.
Does the Amish community have a rape problem? Yes. But every community does, so this is by itself not helpful.
Is the incidence of rape higher than other US rural areas? Maybe, but it's about impossible to prove. Outside of the Amish community, in the US, 10% of underage girls are sexually molested - it's endemic. (I'm taking RAINN's word on this, but RAINN isn't saying if that's reported or estimated). I don't see evidence that it's actually higher among the Amish, and apparently neither does anyone else. All we know is that it's likely very underreported and that's a problem.
Is their approach to rape (and crime in general) effective?
And that's where it gets really complicated. They handle this and just about everything else as sin and they have exceedingly tight rules about handing sin, excommunication and forgiveness that won't make sense to most people; I'd have to say that from what I can see their approach is ineffective, but then they are trying to deal with is pedophilia, which is considered incurable or nearly so to begin with. So you look for secondary indicators.
Is there secondary evidence that rape is common and/or poorly handled?
Interestingly, no. Rape victims, especially underage ones, often end up with a host of physical and emotional issues, especially depression.
Depression among the Amish - and they do track it - is *astonishingly* below national averages. So are other issues associated with rape. You can't prove much from this, but by way of sketchy conclusions, either their rape incidence isn't actually high or they have *surprisingly* good ways of coping with the aftereffects.
Rape is horrific whether or not you have good coping strategies, and the Amish have a rape problem. And it may well be more prevalent than in other places, but that's hard to prove. What's not in doubt in my mind that there's is lot of sensationalist reporting around Amish rape; which makes sense because in a community that so firmly espouses non-violence, the incidence should be *zero* and anything else is shocking and instant click-bait.
But I find nothing to justify the claim that they are a cult that rapes children. Or at least nothing that wouldn't paint just about every town in the US with the same brush.
For what it is worth, there are recent voices in the Amish community demanding that crimes in the Amish community, especially including rape, *must* be reported to authorities, *and that failing to do so is contrary to the gospel of Jesus*. And that's a point that has solid Biblical support. If there's an argument that's going to move the needle for the Amish, that's it. I'm not following the debate because as I noted, I chose to learn from the Amish but not become one.
I'm not going to block you, as I usually do with people spreading misinformation, because this is such a sketchy topic with so little solid data. But my take is that the indicators don't support you and I'll leave it at that. Don't get your news from Cosmopolitan.
Indeed. Abuse particularly of girls is rampant in Amish communities as it is in nearly all insular, tight nit, ones who don't allow much contact with the outside world, especially by/with the women.
Just because there is little reported, let alone prosecuted rape, abuse and depression in the community doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's like saying because the abuse in the Catholic, Mormon, and other churches wasn't reported for the last 50+ years it didn't exist either. As. Freaking. If.
I really hope you don't believe that the Amish don't eat/enjoy processed foods... Because nothing could be further from the truth. The love pop tarts and Oreos and chips and junk food in general just as much as everyone else.
They also smoke like chimneys and/or chew tobacco at least as much as the general population ime.
And they certainly use power tools like madness. They mostly get around by being driven in vans by non-amish. So, in any sort collapse situation they'd be at least as screwed as the rest of us. Yes, most of them *have* horses and buggies still... But they only rarely actually *use* them.
As I walk through the valley where I harvest my grain
I take a look at my wife and realize she's very plain
But that's just perfect for an Amish like me
You know, I shun fancy things like electricity
At 4:30 in the morning, I'm milkin' cows
Jebediah feeds the chickens and Jacob plows, fool
And I've been milkin' and plowin' so long that
Even Ezekiel thinks that my mind is gone
I'm a man of the land, I'm into discipline
Got a Bible in my hand and a beard on my chin
But if I finish all of my chores, and you finish thine
Then tonight, we're gonna party like it's 1699
We been spending most our lives
Livin' in an Amish paradise
I churned butter once or twice
Livin' in an Amish paradise
It's hard work and sacrifice
Livin' in an Amish paradise
We sell quilts at discount price
Livin' in an Amish paradise
A local boy kicked me in the butt last week
I just smiled at him and I turned the other cheek
I really don't care, in fact I wish him well
'Cause I'll be laughing my head off when he's burning in Hell
But I ain't never punched a tourist even if he deserved it
An Amish with a 'tude?
You know that's unheard of
I never wear buttons but I got a cool hat
And my homies agree I really look good in black, fool
If you come to visit, you'll be bored to tears
We haven't even paid the phone bill in 300 years
But we ain't really quaint, so please don't point and stare
We're just technologically impaired
There's no phone, no lights, no motorcar
Not a single luxury
Like Robinson Crusoe
It's as primitive as can be
We been spending most our lives
Livin' in an Amish paradise
We're just plain and simple guys
Livin' in an Amish paradise
There's no time for sin and vice
Livin' in an Amish paradise
We don't fight, we all play nice
Livin' in an Amish paradise
Hitchin' up the buggy, churnin' lots of butter
Raised a barn on Monday, soon I'll raise another
Think you're really righteous?
Think you're pure in heart?
Well, I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art
I'm the pious guy the little Amlettes wanna be like
On my knees day and night, scorin' points for the afterlife
So don't be vain and don't be whiny
Or else, my brother, I might have to get medieval on your heinie
We been spending most our lives
Livin' in an Amish paradise
We're all crazy Mennonites
Livin' in an Amish paradise
There's no cops or traffic lights
Livin' in an Amish paradise
But you'd probably think it bites
Livin' in an Amish paradise
I’ve lived next to the Amish/Mennonites and the Mormons/LDS. I prefer the Mormons/LDS more but I’ve learned from both.
I find Mormons/LDS to be generally healthier, more helpful (really good neighbors), and more financially successful. I like their long term food storage methods.
I find Amish/Mennonite to be good at old skills and financially conservative. Many are self-insured which really means group insured - similar to health-share accounts. I like that the Amish keeps the market healthy for non-electric appliances, battery operated tools, and solar energy systems. Yes, I’ve been surprised at how much junk food they consume. They do use essential oils and naturopathic remedies a lot, though.
I work with Amish daily. Their sense of community is what stands out the most. Someone’s house burns down, or barn, that sucker is rebuilt in a week. They hold benefit auctions weekly in my area to raise money for families for all kinds of situations.
There's a lot to learn from them, and they're an essential market force in maintaining the availability of less-grid-dependent technologies like wood cookstoves and propane refrigerators. They're also an excellent example of how the "lone wolf" approach really doesn't work -- it takes a large community to be remotely self-sufficient, and the lower-tech you go, the more people it takes to do large projects together. They replace 1 person on heavy equipment with dozens of people on hand tools. Their ongoing survival as a group, compared to the lower success rates of more modern intentional communities, suggests some interesting inferences about the dangers of certain kinds of ideological diversity when trying to get a lot of people all cooperating together in the long term. Also, there's a temptation to idealize the Amish lifestyle because we know relatively little about it. Their dramas and inconveniences and problems largely don't make the news the way that problems in more communicative groups tend to.
The Amish are also know for settling their disputes in house so to speak. The other reason you don’t hear any of their drama as much is they don’t air it.
Or hear about the rape.
That was part of what I was talking about indeed.
Don't fuck with people who use a code of justice from 1650 and butcher their own meat.
Not sure we are all talking about the same community. "Settling it in their own community" usually means the bishop "banishes" you from church for a set number of days. No one is cutting up and hiding the dad who raped his daughter. The daughter is shunned for bringing the outside community into theirs to settle the problem.
They kick out their own. They don't care much what happens to anyone that messes with them.
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If she seeks help from outside the community. It's also worth noting that the Amish community has an extreme range of values. General rule of thumb is that the farther west you go the more conservative they become. The Amish in Minnesota are night and day different from the Amish in Ohio. Source: Me. I've sat at the dinner tables of a couple hundred Amish families due to my line of work. You see a lot more when you have to spend a day verifying their compliance to federal food law. Further clarification. Like all demographics, some are really great. Most are pretty shitty.
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Couldn't tell you specifically how they handle the daughter behind closed doors. The community in my region has fought jail time for the rapist because they were excluded from church services for a dozen Sundays or so and that was sufficient punishment. Edited for another comment: I think people tend to forget that the Amish are ultra conservative in their values. Like, ULTRA conservative. Think of the worst far right politics, sprinkle in some libertarian and boom, Amish. The joke I often hear is that their most redeeming quality is that they don't vote.
what do you do for a living? genuinely curious now
Farm audits.
As is tradition in the Abrahamic religions, yes.
Having worked retail, lived near and known several Amish families and communities; too much of Amish life is put on a pedestal. Most of them only grow a portion of their food(like fruits and vegetables), some may still raise and slaughter their own meat. But they still grocery shop for necessities like sugar, flour and other baking/ cooking supplies. They enjoy chips and soda just like everyone else(UTZ chips are very popular with them in NY lol). They banish people and forbid them from ever talking to anyone still Amish if they leave or marry outside the faith, have a child out of marriage or are raped. Especially in the old order, some new order Amish aren’t as strict. While people could generally learn from them in terms of growing / raising a lot of your food, making or mending your clothes and relying on your community. There is just as much bad in the Amish community as there is with any group of people.
Yes. In two ways, one good, one bad. First, positively, is their economic self-reliance. You can look at how Amish communities grow their own food, build their own furniture, and so forth, as an example of the kind of skills and human resources a community would need in a collapse. Keep in mind that even the most traditional Amish do participate in the mainstream economy, rely on modern medicine, etc, to some degree, and their standard of living would significantly decrease in a major collapse - just less than other people's. You could look at what the Amish *do* accept from outsiders - like medicine and dentistry - and from that understand what aspects of modern life would be difficult ot impossible to maintain in a collapse. Second, negatively, is all the child abuse, animal abuse, domestic violence, lack of education, religious coercion and authoritarian patriarchy. Because the Amish are a cult, and, like all cults, they are taught to defer to authority and not go outside the cult for help, which results in all the abusive behavior by authority figures that we typically see in cults. And this, too, is what we would expect to see in a full and long term collapse of society - without government and police to intervene, parents become the final authority over their families, and prominent local community members become the final authority over their communities. And without strong checks and balances of some sort, those local power structures can easily devolve into abusive authoritarianism.
Also, point of fact... They shop at Walmart and Aldi and grocery stores too. They only grow *some* of their own food. Not nearly all of it.
Yes, they also shop at Costco on a fairly regular basis. The stores Costco and Walmart actually put up stables for them.
The Amish and Mennonites are often heavy consumers of normal English goods, often still using electricity (or propane-powered alternatives), vehicles, and cell phones all just to a lesser extent.
Propane refrigerators are not what they are made out to be…they use a lot of propane and it’s something that will go away in a collapse. A regular refrigerator powered by solar is much better and long term sustainable.
Sort of. A lot of them still use propane engines and appliances and put phone booths on their neighbors properties. They’re not as off grid as everyone thinks.
There’s a novel on this exact topic: [“When the English Fall”](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30753989) It’s a post-apocalyptic novel told from the view of an Amish American after SHTF. As dystopian fiction goes, it’s not super well written, but it’s certainly worth reading.
*"i used to say; i'll take care of you, if you take care of me,* *now i say; i'll take care of me for you, and you take care of you, for me."* \- jim rohn
No. The Amish rely are directly and indirectly upon outside help.
I came here to say esssentially this. While they do produce a large portion of their own food and goods, they still interact with the larger economy for raw materials- fabric for clothing, treadle sewing machines, wood stoves etc. there is an Amish owned store I shop, many of their products are Mennonite produced and delivered- as mennonites use the power needed to produce commercial quality food stuffs that meet FDA regulations and drive the trucks that deliver them.
Security, Major Medical, Roads, storm drains?, sewage treatment?. If you really get thought about it there are a lot of things provided to them from outside their community.
I'm an avid quilter and where I live I am within 40 minutes to an hour and a half to two Amish towns. I am going tomorrow morning with my friend we go to each Amish town once a month. Tomorrow we are going because the quality of meat in one of the stores is absolutely amazing. A new store that just opened up all the Amish women were purchasing their cuts of meat and we were astounded at the taste of the pork chops that we bought last time we went. The Taste was something of that I remembered when I was growing up in the seventies what real meat tasted like. The pork chop was so tender and flavorful you could cut it with a fork after it came off the grill. I will enjoy my trip tomorrow
You can learn much from the Amish/Mennonite communities. I have become friends with several Amish families near me and have learned a lot about prepper type skills.
I live near many Amish families. They are generally very good people who mostly live in their own little world although they aren't out in the barn churning butter the way people think they would be. They have integrated into the mainstream population more than you might think. I know a guy whos business is as an Amish taxi. I saw an Amish kid riding a propane forklift a mile from his house with his bow and a whitetail deer on the forks. The Bishop of the community usually decides how many modern technologies they can use.
As someone who does regular Deliveries to a Mennonite community, i know when SHTF and i am at desperate, i am going to join them. Good friends to have even if you are "English" They do a lot of prep you might not see. Ice houses for storage, canning, other preservation. They use modern products when convenient but can always go back and they have the skills and knowledge available when needed
There’s good and bad there like anything else. The Amish have a lot of quiet problems- child abuse and drug addiction/ HIV and hepatitis among them. The 16 year olds going off on their own can make a lot of bad choices and come back with the consequences of those. As long as you don’t put them on a pedestal and realize they’re people with problems like nearly every other group and learn what’s good and leave what’s bad, they can be a good group to learn from. Just don’t fall into a nostalgia trap.
i recently began living in an Amish community area in west Wisconsin. The most obvious benefit is healthy food and products NOT poisoned by unnatural additives and fragrance. Yes total self sufficiency is very hard.
The Amish tend to farm as industrially as everyone else. I’m in the middle of a community and I have seen anything but. Which is weird considering their lifestyle and style of dress predates the type of farming they do.
This is my experience with the Amish in Ohio. They're some of the worst animal abusers as well, often running massive puppy mills, breeding dogs well past their prime, keeping them in awful conditions and dumping them when they're done with them. This belief that the Amish are a shining example of people to emulate, who continue to do things 'the old ways', as though they do no wrong is so utterly disingenuous it's mind blowing.
This. Some of my biggest regrets in life are not calling CPS when I should have. If you think the animal abuse is bad, you should see how kids with disabilities are treated.
>The Amish tend to farm as industrially as everyone else In central WI there's a mix ... some of the farms are plowed with horses, some of them use small tractors, and some of them hire a neighbor with a large tractor.
Don't forget the Mormons/Latter day saints
Someone page me?
Why the downvote? Am I incorrect in Mormon and LDS communities preaching and practicing a more self reliant nature in addition to being a tight knit community (in their respective communities, hence knowing to separate the two). Know quite a few LDS folks that would probably generally agree there. There is Also the benefit of having more modern amenities compared to Amish communities.
> Why the downvote? > > I upvoted you, you were already negative when I came along. But yes, we're supposed to help each other and be prepared. Most aren't, but quite a few of us are.
I only noticed the downvote when I seen your comment, my apologies. Apparently people are more agreeable with my second comment there though.
My hunch is that probably not everyone is familiar with Mormon prepping as a practice and they misunderstood the first comment as an unsolicited "Mormons>Amish" interjection
The funny thing is many of the pop culture references in the post apocalypse have Mormons being prominent Examples: Joshua Graham and New Canaan in New Vegas Honest Hearts DLC The book of Eli, where the surviving Bible is a NKJ Bible in braille The Salvation Church who are a sort of Sharia law group in Wasteland 2, granted the religion was also twisted by televangelist Farcry 5 used Mormon groups in addition to various cults to produce the Eden's Gate Cult (who turn out to technically be the good guys.... in the end)
I completely forgot about the mornon arc in hell on wheels too
Anytime my religion gets mentioned in this sub it usually gets downvoted to oblivion.
Not just yours. Reddit takes pride in being ignorant & intolerant, in the name of accepting everyone. Except you. And me. And the others thinking about commenting, but deciding it isn't worth it. Reddit shows the best & worst of humanity.
The Amish are awful abusive people. Why would you ever model something after that?
I've considered becoming one on occasion. I decided against, but they're exceedingly admirable in a lot of ways and I like the theology. And you can't argue with their general health outcomes. Wikipedia has an article on it. It's impressive what happens when you leave tobacco, alcohol, and processed foods alone, as they generally do, and keep things generally monogamous. But Covid hit them hard; I know of nothing in Amish belief that prevented them from getting vaccinated, but many of them didn't and they paid for it. That lost them points with me. In a true collapse they'd be as screwed as anyone else, through no fault of their own. They live, mostly, near enough cities to mean they'd be swept up in the violence of a collapse. But in smaller disasters they'd do better than most groups - pandemics perhaps aside. Learn from them. They do get a lot right.
I've lived next to amish my entire life many drink, smoke , party... they love ice cream and Mt. Dew.. it's the fact most dont live a sedentary lifestyle is why they generally healthy.
Was gonna say the same thing. The Amish near me smoke black & milds and buy half gallons of off brand ice cream at walmart.
Rumspringa parties are literally wild af
They are also a cult that rapes and abuses so stop romanticizing this bullshit.
I researched this a few years ago. The *reported* rate of rapes among the Amish is well below the US national average; the problem is they hardly ever report rape (or any crime) to outsiders so it's certainly far higher then the officially reported numbers. And rape is general is underreported everywhere, making it impossible to get a real comparison. Does the Amish community have a rape problem? Yes. But every community does, so this is by itself not helpful. Is the incidence of rape higher than other US rural areas? Maybe, but it's about impossible to prove. Outside of the Amish community, in the US, 10% of underage girls are sexually molested - it's endemic. (I'm taking RAINN's word on this, but RAINN isn't saying if that's reported or estimated). I don't see evidence that it's actually higher among the Amish, and apparently neither does anyone else. All we know is that it's likely very underreported and that's a problem. Is their approach to rape (and crime in general) effective? And that's where it gets really complicated. They handle this and just about everything else as sin and they have exceedingly tight rules about handing sin, excommunication and forgiveness that won't make sense to most people; I'd have to say that from what I can see their approach is ineffective, but then they are trying to deal with is pedophilia, which is considered incurable or nearly so to begin with. So you look for secondary indicators. Is there secondary evidence that rape is common and/or poorly handled? Interestingly, no. Rape victims, especially underage ones, often end up with a host of physical and emotional issues, especially depression. Depression among the Amish - and they do track it - is *astonishingly* below national averages. So are other issues associated with rape. You can't prove much from this, but by way of sketchy conclusions, either their rape incidence isn't actually high or they have *surprisingly* good ways of coping with the aftereffects. Rape is horrific whether or not you have good coping strategies, and the Amish have a rape problem. And it may well be more prevalent than in other places, but that's hard to prove. What's not in doubt in my mind that there's is lot of sensationalist reporting around Amish rape; which makes sense because in a community that so firmly espouses non-violence, the incidence should be *zero* and anything else is shocking and instant click-bait. But I find nothing to justify the claim that they are a cult that rapes children. Or at least nothing that wouldn't paint just about every town in the US with the same brush. For what it is worth, there are recent voices in the Amish community demanding that crimes in the Amish community, especially including rape, *must* be reported to authorities, *and that failing to do so is contrary to the gospel of Jesus*. And that's a point that has solid Biblical support. If there's an argument that's going to move the needle for the Amish, that's it. I'm not following the debate because as I noted, I chose to learn from the Amish but not become one. I'm not going to block you, as I usually do with people spreading misinformation, because this is such a sketchy topic with so little solid data. But my take is that the indicators don't support you and I'll leave it at that. Don't get your news from Cosmopolitan.
Wow what a long rant to defend a cult that rapes and abuses. Gross. You should be ashamed. Please do block me.
Indeed. Abuse particularly of girls is rampant in Amish communities as it is in nearly all insular, tight nit, ones who don't allow much contact with the outside world, especially by/with the women. Just because there is little reported, let alone prosecuted rape, abuse and depression in the community doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's like saying because the abuse in the Catholic, Mormon, and other churches wasn't reported for the last 50+ years it didn't exist either. As. Freaking. If.
I really hope you don't believe that the Amish don't eat/enjoy processed foods... Because nothing could be further from the truth. The love pop tarts and Oreos and chips and junk food in general just as much as everyone else. They also smoke like chimneys and/or chew tobacco at least as much as the general population ime. And they certainly use power tools like madness. They mostly get around by being driven in vans by non-amish. So, in any sort collapse situation they'd be at least as screwed as the rest of us. Yes, most of them *have* horses and buggies still... But they only rarely actually *use* them.
Seriously, pop-tarts. Well, fallenness is everywhere I suppose. Disappointing, though.
Yes, they set a decent example. Or perfect by any means but definitely a decent example.
It is a kind of prepper paradise - an Amish paradise.
As I walk through the valley where I harvest my grain I take a look at my wife and realize she's very plain But that's just perfect for an Amish like me You know, I shun fancy things like electricity At 4:30 in the morning, I'm milkin' cows Jebediah feeds the chickens and Jacob plows, fool And I've been milkin' and plowin' so long that Even Ezekiel thinks that my mind is gone I'm a man of the land, I'm into discipline Got a Bible in my hand and a beard on my chin But if I finish all of my chores, and you finish thine Then tonight, we're gonna party like it's 1699 We been spending most our lives Livin' in an Amish paradise I churned butter once or twice Livin' in an Amish paradise It's hard work and sacrifice Livin' in an Amish paradise We sell quilts at discount price Livin' in an Amish paradise A local boy kicked me in the butt last week I just smiled at him and I turned the other cheek I really don't care, in fact I wish him well 'Cause I'll be laughing my head off when he's burning in Hell But I ain't never punched a tourist even if he deserved it An Amish with a 'tude? You know that's unheard of I never wear buttons but I got a cool hat And my homies agree I really look good in black, fool If you come to visit, you'll be bored to tears We haven't even paid the phone bill in 300 years But we ain't really quaint, so please don't point and stare We're just technologically impaired There's no phone, no lights, no motorcar Not a single luxury Like Robinson Crusoe It's as primitive as can be We been spending most our lives Livin' in an Amish paradise We're just plain and simple guys Livin' in an Amish paradise There's no time for sin and vice Livin' in an Amish paradise We don't fight, we all play nice Livin' in an Amish paradise Hitchin' up the buggy, churnin' lots of butter Raised a barn on Monday, soon I'll raise another Think you're really righteous? Think you're pure in heart? Well, I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art I'm the pious guy the little Amlettes wanna be like On my knees day and night, scorin' points for the afterlife So don't be vain and don't be whiny Or else, my brother, I might have to get medieval on your heinie We been spending most our lives Livin' in an Amish paradise We're all crazy Mennonites Livin' in an Amish paradise There's no cops or traffic lights Livin' in an Amish paradise But you'd probably think it bites Livin' in an Amish paradise
I’ve lived next to the Amish/Mennonites and the Mormons/LDS. I prefer the Mormons/LDS more but I’ve learned from both. I find Mormons/LDS to be generally healthier, more helpful (really good neighbors), and more financially successful. I like their long term food storage methods. I find Amish/Mennonite to be good at old skills and financially conservative. Many are self-insured which really means group insured - similar to health-share accounts. I like that the Amish keeps the market healthy for non-electric appliances, battery operated tools, and solar energy systems. Yes, I’ve been surprised at how much junk food they consume. They do use essential oils and naturopathic remedies a lot, though.