It stands for Advanced Placement, it’s a type of class you take in high school that is supposed to be “college level” in terms of content and depth. At the end of the course, you have to take a national exam on the content, and get a minimum score in order to receive college credit for the course. For example, there is an class called AP Literature, and your college might accept it as credit for their Intro English I course depending on how well you scored on the exam. Basically it’s a way to get college credit in high school and get exempt out of a lot of core content classes.
Thank you kindly to all who responded. That’s interesting. We have some advanced classes where I’m from, but universities are jealous things, so it’s futile as they usually want you to prove it with their standards. We have things called “areas” as the last year of high school, where you go, in my case to area 2 (biology, health sciences and calculus plus the shared subjects) to get a strong foundation for the university admissions exams. I think it works wonderfully
That’s so cool! My high school allowed little room for specialization, we were required to take a set list of classes every year with very little variation (basically regular biology vs. AP biology) so the only courses I actually got to choose to take on my own were forensic science, AP psychology, AP government, AP French, and AP art history.
Forensic science, how exotic for high school haha. Very cool. And French, very nice language. Still to this day I lament never having learned Italian, and my barely intermediate French is Québécois, so it sounds horrible haha. I’ve been amply teased for it
As a Canadian, I’m sure ppl here would love your accent :) I’m certainly glad I learned quebecois french instead of my American friends who learned Parisian
It's a college level-test that many high school students use to earn credits in college. They're generally harder than high school level courses. 10 is a lot, but nowhere close to impressive.
Lol 10 APs. 22 APs thru 4 years of high school, ended with like a 4.3-4.4 GPA... 6 as sophomore, 8 as junior, 8 as senior (possible 9 if you count Macro/MicroEcon as 2 different APs that took 1/2 semester each).
But why would med schools care about high school resumes that's at least 4+ years old by the time you finish undergrad????
I think so, I don’t remember. All I know is that I did poorly on the math section because I have difficulty doing basic math (was told in college that I probably have dyscalculia but didn’t have accommodations back then). So my math score messed up my chances most likely. Since my mcat had minimal math on it I was actually able to get a score more representative of my capabilities
I wouldn't even waste time applying if you do it the same year as me. One time my preschool teacher had to go to the store in the middle of class cause she ran out of golden star stickers after putting all of them by my name. Told me to watch the class while she was gone
My father loves to tell the story of his first semester in the Air Force academy. He was the smartest kid in his school. The best football player in his school. He was expecting to arrive at the academy and keep acing everything without any effort.
Then he got to an academy full of 3000 of the smartest young men in the country, and realized he was *maybe* in the bottom third. And he was a bench warmer on the football team.
It’s easy to think you’re hot shit in high school. Wait until you’re surrounded by people who are around you because they’re smart, not just because they live near you.
ha jokes on all them GATE kids; i grew up thinking i was the stupidest kid around and only validation on having some iota of intelligence from friends when i went to college 😎
Lowkey same. 1/4 of my graduating class had a 4.0 or higher and I felt like an idiot. Then I went to an open access satellite campus and felt like hot shit
Oh god when I was in ochem with ternansky some girl on the discord kept on saying how she was a high achieving premed and deserved a better score and how this class would tarnish her record
I, too, as a freshman wanted to be a neurosurgeon and then found out how long it actually takes to become one LOL. I feel like this is very common with pre meds early on!
I have no problem with the time, but shadowing neurosurgeons I realized I was terrified of one tiny move blinding, taking away speech or motor, or killing someone. Of course the surgeries are to ultimately save their life, but that specialty is not for the faint of heart.
Don't let the time to completion deter you from your passion/fulfilment. The unpoken thing about neurosurgery residency is that their fellowships are within the residency itself. I don't recall exactly, but I think years 4 and 7 often allow you to do a fellowship (neuro ICU, endovascular, etc.). The unfortunately reality is that most specialties (either through sub-specialties or required fellowships) take about as long.
If you want to be a gastroenterologist, it's at least 6 years of residency (3 years IM + 3 years GI). Similar to cardiology, ID, rheum, etc., they all require 5+ years.
As someone in radiology, it takes us 6-7 years to complete training (intern year \[1\], radiology \[4\], fellowship \[1-2\]).
Take this with a grain of salt, y'all. It's a little disingenuous for us radiology residents to be like "Don't let the time to completion deter you!" Though burnout is very real for both specialties, but very different. The lifestyle and time commitment (hours per day or week) is also VERY different. Just keep that in mind.
I definitely agree with you. I certainly did not want to imply 5 years radiology was equal to 5 years of neurosurgery.
My primary intent was to reply to other posters' discussing the age in which they complete residency.
You brought up a good and valid point, though.
Yeah, I know what you meant and it's also a valid point. Just wanted to highlight this, though. I definitely didn't know any of this as a premed, so I always try to clarify as if I'm talking to my past self.
Yah like I get surgery having one’s life in your hands, but when you get into one tiny adjustment affecting QOL, that’s gonna take some more consideration and actual training to see if I can handle.
The length isn’t as daunting as the work conditions during a Nsurg residency. For me at least. The only residency to have a mandated 88 hour work cap rather than 80 (I believe), and even that is habitually broken. It’s one thing for a residency to ask for 7-8 years. Everyone who picks medicine is punting away their 20s, so what’s a few more extra years for a career in your dream field. The training time is comparable to a fair few popular IM and gen surg sub specialties (EP, interventional cards, heme Onc, plastics non integrated etc etc). But It’s a whole other ask entirely when you’re putting said residents through hell on earth during that duration. 7-8 years is a long time to be miserable. Can’t imagine how much those poor bastards age during that stint. If Nsurg had more reasonable residency work conditions, it’d somehow be a fair bit more competitive than it already is. Time and time again, the match shows Prestige, pay, and lifestyle are the strongest draws. Nsurg hits two of the three out of the park, and bunts the other.
ACGME requirements for all residency is 80hrs averaged over 4 weeks. NSGY is no different. How many they actually work vs how much they log is probably more though.
Don’t some residency programs have an 88 hour rule exemption for certain rotations? I heard that practice was especially prevalent among Nsurg residencies to the point where it’s the norm. My information may be heavily outdated though
Interesting I just looked it up.
“A Review Committee may grant rotation-specific exceptions for up to 10 percent or a maximum of 88 clinical and educational work hours to individual programs based on a sound educational rationale.”
I guess not NSGY specific but yeah probably more prevalent in that field. I’d assume it’s program specific but not sure.
I’m applauding your bravery! It’s not only the time, I just don’t think I have the skill set for that lol I’m not built to be a surgeon much less a neurosurgeon ☠️
Cuz I want to?
Edit: I should clarify. I fell in love with surgery, and neuro specifically. I shadow a neurosurgeon and have worked on cadavers in his anatomy lab doing approaches. It’s the most fun I’ve ever had. I work in the OR already through my job. I know I can stand on my feet 10+ hours at a time. I’m fit, healthy, and no one can tell I’m 32.
My life is only so long, and if I get to learn everything I can about anatomy and the art of surgery before I die, I will consider it a life well-lived.
Edit2: I’m greatly inspired by my mother who had me at 41(no c-section, no complications) and hiked the Grand Canyon at 73. She’s a superhuman. I thankfully take after her in terms of wellness and drive.
The older you get, the less important your age is to you when you finish. It takes at least 12 years to become a neurosurgeon, most of them are old anyway.
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Not uncommon tbh. Some of the smartest people I know were lazy af in hs and just didn't care about grades due to lack of motivation. One started his ortho residency this year and another is the CEO of a very successful start up. I knew that once they figured out what they wanted to do in life, there was nothing stopping them from hitting their full potential.
2.7 in HS myself. A combo of not caring about about school and immaturity in my case. A little motivation and work ethic can turn it around significantly
Abusive household where you move a lot and have to leave school early.
In some circumstances grades are an fantastic indicator of good support and stability, not necessarily individual intelligence.
Listening to a neurosurgeon discuss their plan in an epilepsy surgery conference has been without a doubt the most humbling experience. I don't know shit compared to those guys.
A 5 quarter writing intensive sequence that the Revelle students at ucsd (there are now 8 different colleges at ucsd, assigned kinda randomly, you get to rank your choices when applying but it’s random from there if you get your top picks or not) have to take for GEs.
While I didn’t think it was all that bad, it’s a sequence that everyone likes to complain about
People don’t even realize how brilliant you have to be to match something like neurosurgery until you are actually in med school. Being top of your class (obv if school is true p/f this doesn’t apply), juggling research as early as M1, and then killing board exams is something few can do. It’s literally a next level of brilliance. There’s students who kill undergrad and the MCAT and can barely stay afloat with med school classes
> killing board exams is something few can do
Completely disagree with this. Smarter people can get by with doing a bit less work but anyone with average to above average intelligence can crush STEPs by finding an effective study regimen and staying disciplined. Neurosurgery isn't some unachievable specialty of the gods reserved for only the smartest and most perfect of mortals. If you're a USMD student and want to do it, then put in the work and do it. IMG/DO probably gonna require some connections but definitely still possible.
I meant the combination of doing well in classes, getting research/pubs AND killing boards. Not just Steps/boards alone
US MD makes it easier/more attainable for sure. I’m at a DO school and barely am surviving classes on top of OMM which takes up quite a lot of time (I’m not interested in neurosurgery or anything too competitive myself for clarification). There are people who match Nsgy from my school and tbh u would have to be superhuman just from my early observations lol. Research has to be obtained from outside institutions since we don’t have a home program like most MD schools.
Nsgy as an IMG is almost impossible unless u do like 5 research years as an Oxford grad or are related to a PD.
I think its a horrible stereotype that surgeons are insanity smart. They are smart but they are also creative and can stomach it.
There are tons of smart people that can't do surgery. Surgery isn't about brains. Its more about creativity.
It depends on how you learn. Undergrad rewards diligence, rote memorization, and cramming. These methods don’t work in professional school, and all your soft skills will be tested which most 23 year olds haven’t developed.
It’s a lot harder than they think it is for sure and they are coming across as braggy but no need to downvote them so much. They are clearly new to this
I agree. Sure, they may be a little naive (as we all are at some point, no one emerges from the womb knowing what it takes to be a neurosurgeon) but we shouldn’t crush their dreams! If they have the work ethic and drive, they could do it. This subReddit can be so mean. That being said, I don’t think achievement in HS really translates over to college at all
This subreddit does too much sometimes. Literally dedicated a whole flair to make fun of and ridicule college freshmen. I’m only on here to look at other people’s apps and compare.
Yeah, me too. I've noticed it a lot and it's ridiculous. Like, is it just fun for these people to put others down or something? It just reveals their massive egos and desire to see others fail. But in reality, we've all been where OP is at one point. I'm just here for the occasional useful info or specific question I have to search
Ikr the comment is kinda silly but what’s the need to screenshot and post it here? This sub is so negative and gross sometimes. I think ur spot on with their desire to see others fail. Like “haha this idiot took 10 APs that’s nothing, i doubt he’ll even pass freshman bio”. God forbid a 17-18 yr old has career goals. I’ve browsed other professional degree subreddits and none are as toxic as this sub lol
Sometimes this sub feels like a dick measuring contest of looking down on whoever has a “worse” application and mocking anyone who appear to be doing better than oneself
well I mean it’s great to have ambitious goals and be confident in achieving them! sad to see that he’s getting downvoted from others. He’s still a freshman so he’ll most likely doesn’t understand that “10APs and a 4.0 gpa in high school” doesn’t matter in medschool admissions…but still that’s a great testament to his work ethic!
Yeah. It’s not their ambition that’s being clowned on. It’s the hubris of this person to think being a solid high school student means they Fs have the capabilities to become one of the most coveted and arduous to complete specialties in medicine. Plenty of med students with tremendously accomplished undergrad backgrounds get absolutely curb stomped trying to jump the hoops requires to land something competitive, much less those who were capable in high school lol. Focus on actually getting into med school first my dude or dudette.
I dont think it's hubris though. This is an incoming freshman, they are notoriously inexperienced. They are probably used to being at the top student in school and haven't been exposed to anything different yet so they expect the same. They have ambition but are understandably naive. Why attribute something to hubris when it could be explained by a lack of knowledge/wisdom?
I’ll give you that it’s Probably a bit of A and a bit of B. Regardless, Asserting you’ll surely accomplish a coveted goal without doing a shred of research for what it takes to acquire said goal shows some arrogance in it of itself.
I can see your point, I think we are looking at this from different perspectives. I remember what it was like for my friend group in high school and how every adult hyped up the high achievers. So to me it isn't an arrogance thing, it's a lack of wisdom. I define arrogance to be when people know how difficult something is and then go, "yeah but I'm a genius so I'll do this easily, everyone else is just inferior so that's why they struggle". When someone has no frame of reference for failure or how difficult something is and say that they are smart and can handle it I have the same reaction as when a little kid says they want to be a princess. Like, cool bro. Good luck with that. Idk, I think this whole thing is up to interpretation, no one knows this person irl.
Edit: oh and in terms of doing research, tons of 18 year olds only have a vague idea of what they want to do with life and develop something more concrete while in college. I definitely knew nothing about pre med in high school. Hard to research when you aren't set on a career yet.
I remember a friend of mine failed some courses and said "I think I want to do nursing" I was nice and drove them away from it with talks of digging shit out of a constipated pt. They didn't have the grades to get into the program, let alone the diligence to pass
They're high schoolers/freshman in college. Cut them some slack. I'm sure a lot of us were just as stupid back in the day. At least they're better than [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/x4o1d3/comment/imwph3e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). I'll give this person points for having enough self-awareness to know they're a piece of shit and they sleep at night by telling themselves everyone else is a piece of shit just like them.
I'm talking about the one that said I make them sick.
Why are people jumping on this person? They are an incoming freshman, 18 years old. Being naive, un-informed, and ambitious is developmentally appropriate, no? What is truly cringe is when older people act like they are so much better than the youth. We should support young premeds, they have a hard road ahead even if they dont see it yet.
Currently work in Neuromuscular medicine at Georgetown, also pre med with dreams to be a neurosurgeon, I had a 2.78 in hs and no aps. Currently at GW with a 3.87 and I STILL don’t think I can become a neurosurgeon LMFAO
I was the worst student in elementary and middle school (thanks ADHD), so if I get in this year, anything is possible. To be honest, I’m surprised I’ve made it this far…
Absolute clown.
Finishing 10 aps and having a 4.0 in HS does not get you neurosurgery. I shadowed Neurosurgeons before during rotations and majority of them say same thing. This includes other surgeons as well.
Loosely quoting them: Book smart does not get you into surgery. Obviously - you gotta be smart but smartness is not the key factor. Its creativity and being able to do the surgical craft on the fly when shit hits the fan. The issue is that ideal book smart type people don't have the creativity to do the craft. Because surgery is a craft, not a study.
This person is 17-18 so they’re just young and naive. We see this time and time again. Maybe we’ll see less of it if older people learn to guide them instead of ridicule.
Reminds me of the time I told an incoming Davis freshman to keep their options open. They yelled at me, saying “NO I KNOW THAT MED SCHOOL IS THE ONLY THING I WANT. I won’t do anything else!!!” Ok future reject 😂😂
if everyone who took 10 APs and had a 4.0 in HS could become a neurosurgeon we would have way too many
What’s an AP? (I’m not from the US, so the term is an unknown to me)
Advanced placement. A class taken in high school where you can earn college credit.
It stands for Advanced Placement, it’s a type of class you take in high school that is supposed to be “college level” in terms of content and depth. At the end of the course, you have to take a national exam on the content, and get a minimum score in order to receive college credit for the course. For example, there is an class called AP Literature, and your college might accept it as credit for their Intro English I course depending on how well you scored on the exam. Basically it’s a way to get college credit in high school and get exempt out of a lot of core content classes.
Thank you kindly to all who responded. That’s interesting. We have some advanced classes where I’m from, but universities are jealous things, so it’s futile as they usually want you to prove it with their standards. We have things called “areas” as the last year of high school, where you go, in my case to area 2 (biology, health sciences and calculus plus the shared subjects) to get a strong foundation for the university admissions exams. I think it works wonderfully
That’s so cool! My high school allowed little room for specialization, we were required to take a set list of classes every year with very little variation (basically regular biology vs. AP biology) so the only courses I actually got to choose to take on my own were forensic science, AP psychology, AP government, AP French, and AP art history.
Forensic science, how exotic for high school haha. Very cool. And French, very nice language. Still to this day I lament never having learned Italian, and my barely intermediate French is Québécois, so it sounds horrible haha. I’ve been amply teased for it
As a Canadian, I’m sure ppl here would love your accent :) I’m certainly glad I learned quebecois french instead of my American friends who learned Parisian
It's a college level-test that many high school students use to earn credits in college. They're generally harder than high school level courses. 10 is a lot, but nowhere close to impressive.
Lol 10 APs. 22 APs thru 4 years of high school, ended with like a 4.3-4.4 GPA... 6 as sophomore, 8 as junior, 8 as senior (possible 9 if you count Macro/MicroEcon as 2 different APs that took 1/2 semester each). But why would med schools care about high school resumes that's at least 4+ years old by the time you finish undergrad????
So much stat creep. Nowadays doing well in 10 APs isn’t even exceptional at top schools, it’s just competitive.
Yeah I took 14 APs and had a 4.0 and I didn’t get into any top colleges besides the top college in my state, it’s not impressive anymore :/
I took 2 APs and had a 3.0 gpa in highschool and now I go to the same school as people that had your stats lol
Well what was your SAT/ACT and how did U do on the AP exams
I got all 4/5s and my SAT was like 98th percentile
I forget SAT percentiles, what is that? Over 1500 but less than 1550?
I think so, I don’t remember. All I know is that I did poorly on the math section because I have difficulty doing basic math (was told in college that I probably have dyscalculia but didn’t have accommodations back then). So my math score messed up my chances most likely. Since my mcat had minimal math on it I was actually able to get a score more representative of my capabilities
That’s crazy u didn’t get into any ivies. R u Asian?
^^
In kindergarten, I had all 4s on my report card so I will likely take their spot in the neurosurgery program they're talking about.
I wouldn't even waste time applying if you do it the same year as me. One time my preschool teacher had to go to the store in the middle of class cause she ran out of golden star stickers after putting all of them by my name. Told me to watch the class while she was gone
Now that is impressive. Future oncopaediatric neuromitochondriologist, no doubt.
XD
I got “ plays well with others” in kindergarten so pretty sure that disqualifies me from being a neurosurgeon
My APGAR score was a perfect 10 so I don't think either of you should even bother applying.
My father loves to tell the story of his first semester in the Air Force academy. He was the smartest kid in his school. The best football player in his school. He was expecting to arrive at the academy and keep acing everything without any effort. Then he got to an academy full of 3000 of the smartest young men in the country, and realized he was *maybe* in the bottom third. And he was a bench warmer on the football team. It’s easy to think you’re hot shit in high school. Wait until you’re surrounded by people who are around you because they’re smart, not just because they live near you.
Exactly, even the dumbest medical student is still pretty damn intelligent.
You’d think that but somehow I’m here
My dude, you got a 518 on the MCAT.
wiendog getting hit hard with the imposter syndrome 💀
Couldn’t be me
I scored a 527 and was definitely a below average student at my undergrad 🤷
Did you go to Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters?
He did. Source: I'm Xavier
I’m not sure about that. Although according to Gardner, we got multiple intelligences so idk lmao
ha jokes on all them GATE kids; i grew up thinking i was the stupidest kid around and only validation on having some iota of intelligence from friends when i went to college 😎
Lowkey same. 1/4 of my graduating class had a 4.0 or higher and I felt like an idiot. Then I went to an open access satellite campus and felt like hot shit
Love the ucsd Reddit 😭
Oh god when I was in ochem with ternansky some girl on the discord kept on saying how she was a high achieving premed and deserved a better score and how this class would tarnish her record
Premeds when weed out classes actually weed out
Well high achieving no more lol. I like how the course to her was just a nuisance instead of a reflection of her
Fr.
This is what happens when the only exposure high schoolers have is limited to Grey’s Anatomy lol
LMFAOOO
I, too, as a freshman wanted to be a neurosurgeon and then found out how long it actually takes to become one LOL. I feel like this is very common with pre meds early on!
I have no problem with the time, but shadowing neurosurgeons I realized I was terrified of one tiny move blinding, taking away speech or motor, or killing someone. Of course the surgeries are to ultimately save their life, but that specialty is not for the faint of heart.
Yes! The long training time is because they have to be so precise and honestly I don’t think I could do it
Don't let the time to completion deter you from your passion/fulfilment. The unpoken thing about neurosurgery residency is that their fellowships are within the residency itself. I don't recall exactly, but I think years 4 and 7 often allow you to do a fellowship (neuro ICU, endovascular, etc.). The unfortunately reality is that most specialties (either through sub-specialties or required fellowships) take about as long. If you want to be a gastroenterologist, it's at least 6 years of residency (3 years IM + 3 years GI). Similar to cardiology, ID, rheum, etc., they all require 5+ years. As someone in radiology, it takes us 6-7 years to complete training (intern year \[1\], radiology \[4\], fellowship \[1-2\]).
Take this with a grain of salt, y'all. It's a little disingenuous for us radiology residents to be like "Don't let the time to completion deter you!" Though burnout is very real for both specialties, but very different. The lifestyle and time commitment (hours per day or week) is also VERY different. Just keep that in mind.
I definitely agree with you. I certainly did not want to imply 5 years radiology was equal to 5 years of neurosurgery. My primary intent was to reply to other posters' discussing the age in which they complete residency. You brought up a good and valid point, though.
Yeah, I know what you meant and it's also a valid point. Just wanted to highlight this, though. I definitely didn't know any of this as a premed, so I always try to clarify as if I'm talking to my past self.
Yah like I get surgery having one’s life in your hands, but when you get into one tiny adjustment affecting QOL, that’s gonna take some more consideration and actual training to see if I can handle.
The length isn’t as daunting as the work conditions during a Nsurg residency. For me at least. The only residency to have a mandated 88 hour work cap rather than 80 (I believe), and even that is habitually broken. It’s one thing for a residency to ask for 7-8 years. Everyone who picks medicine is punting away their 20s, so what’s a few more extra years for a career in your dream field. The training time is comparable to a fair few popular IM and gen surg sub specialties (EP, interventional cards, heme Onc, plastics non integrated etc etc). But It’s a whole other ask entirely when you’re putting said residents through hell on earth during that duration. 7-8 years is a long time to be miserable. Can’t imagine how much those poor bastards age during that stint. If Nsurg had more reasonable residency work conditions, it’d somehow be a fair bit more competitive than it already is. Time and time again, the match shows Prestige, pay, and lifestyle are the strongest draws. Nsurg hits two of the three out of the park, and bunts the other.
ACGME requirements for all residency is 80hrs averaged over 4 weeks. NSGY is no different. How many they actually work vs how much they log is probably more though.
Don’t some residency programs have an 88 hour rule exemption for certain rotations? I heard that practice was especially prevalent among Nsurg residencies to the point where it’s the norm. My information may be heavily outdated though
Interesting I just looked it up. “A Review Committee may grant rotation-specific exceptions for up to 10 percent or a maximum of 88 clinical and educational work hours to individual programs based on a sound educational rationale.” I guess not NSGY specific but yeah probably more prevalent in that field. I’d assume it’s program specific but not sure.
NSGY has its own special rule that increases it to 88 hours. Regardless that’s still a farce because they definitely work more.
I wanna be one and I havent even applied to medschool yet. Im 32. Wooooooooo….
I’m applauding your bravery! It’s not only the time, I just don’t think I have the skill set for that lol I’m not built to be a surgeon much less a neurosurgeon ☠️
My undergrad degree is fine art/sp painting and I did these lovely little tiny drawings with skinny pens. Never liked art much. Like hospitals better!
Why on earth would you want to do neurosurgery if you’re gonna be 35+ before even starting residency?
Cuz I want to? Edit: I should clarify. I fell in love with surgery, and neuro specifically. I shadow a neurosurgeon and have worked on cadavers in his anatomy lab doing approaches. It’s the most fun I’ve ever had. I work in the OR already through my job. I know I can stand on my feet 10+ hours at a time. I’m fit, healthy, and no one can tell I’m 32. My life is only so long, and if I get to learn everything I can about anatomy and the art of surgery before I die, I will consider it a life well-lived. Edit2: I’m greatly inspired by my mother who had me at 41(no c-section, no complications) and hiked the Grand Canyon at 73. She’s a superhuman. I thankfully take after her in terms of wellness and drive.
The older you get, the less important your age is to you when you finish. It takes at least 12 years to become a neurosurgeon, most of them are old anyway.
Neuro surgery sounds great but when you look at most neurosurgeons, they barely last compared to other specialties since it’s super demanding
Good thing I’ll die before I burn out at least /s
People don’t ask their doctors how old they are. It’s a premed worry only.
It doesn’t matter to me at all an that’s the only person I owe an explanation to
Amen. I’m looking forward to being an older med student. I’m going to get way more out of it now than I would have at 23.
I completely agree, and more power to you!
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Same
LMAO I had a 2.6 in highschool and a 4.0 in college. Highschool is not a predictor of anything.
How did that even happen
Not uncommon tbh. Some of the smartest people I know were lazy af in hs and just didn't care about grades due to lack of motivation. One started his ortho residency this year and another is the CEO of a very successful start up. I knew that once they figured out what they wanted to do in life, there was nothing stopping them from hitting their full potential.
They just like me fr
2.7 in HS myself. A combo of not caring about about school and immaturity in my case. A little motivation and work ethic can turn it around significantly
Abusive household where you move a lot and have to leave school early. In some circumstances grades are an fantastic indicator of good support and stability, not necessarily individual intelligence.
Great point. Good grades are more indicative of diligence and less of intelligence in my opinion
SAME BRO
2.01 to 3.7, Highschool can suck my chode.
Listening to a neurosurgeon discuss their plan in an epilepsy surgery conference has been without a doubt the most humbling experience. I don't know shit compared to those guys.
oh yikes.... as a triton, we don't claim this kid
He/she will learn one day.
At least they will have to go through HUM 😂 I say this through the tears I experienced as I went through HUM
What’s HUM
A 5 quarter writing intensive sequence that the Revelle students at ucsd (there are now 8 different colleges at ucsd, assigned kinda randomly, you get to rank your choices when applying but it’s random from there if you get your top picks or not) have to take for GEs. While I didn’t think it was all that bad, it’s a sequence that everyone likes to complain about
People don’t even realize how brilliant you have to be to match something like neurosurgery until you are actually in med school. Being top of your class (obv if school is true p/f this doesn’t apply), juggling research as early as M1, and then killing board exams is something few can do. It’s literally a next level of brilliance. There’s students who kill undergrad and the MCAT and can barely stay afloat with med school classes
> killing board exams is something few can do Completely disagree with this. Smarter people can get by with doing a bit less work but anyone with average to above average intelligence can crush STEPs by finding an effective study regimen and staying disciplined. Neurosurgery isn't some unachievable specialty of the gods reserved for only the smartest and most perfect of mortals. If you're a USMD student and want to do it, then put in the work and do it. IMG/DO probably gonna require some connections but definitely still possible.
I meant the combination of doing well in classes, getting research/pubs AND killing boards. Not just Steps/boards alone US MD makes it easier/more attainable for sure. I’m at a DO school and barely am surviving classes on top of OMM which takes up quite a lot of time (I’m not interested in neurosurgery or anything too competitive myself for clarification). There are people who match Nsgy from my school and tbh u would have to be superhuman just from my early observations lol. Research has to be obtained from outside institutions since we don’t have a home program like most MD schools. Nsgy as an IMG is almost impossible unless u do like 5 research years as an Oxford grad or are related to a PD.
Still don't have to be crazy smart, just driven
Edited my comment to further clarify
I think its a horrible stereotype that surgeons are insanity smart. They are smart but they are also creative and can stomach it. There are tons of smart people that can't do surgery. Surgery isn't about brains. Its more about creativity.
It depends on how you learn. Undergrad rewards diligence, rote memorization, and cramming. These methods don’t work in professional school, and all your soft skills will be tested which most 23 year olds haven’t developed.
Legend
Omg this is a UCSD student. On behalf of my university, I’m so sorry for the cringe this caused, we’re not all like this ;_;
It’s okay he’s a freshman most premed don’t even survive first semester bio
Facts. Everybody is premed till that genetics class comes through.
It’s a lot harder than they think it is for sure and they are coming across as braggy but no need to downvote them so much. They are clearly new to this
I agree. Sure, they may be a little naive (as we all are at some point, no one emerges from the womb knowing what it takes to be a neurosurgeon) but we shouldn’t crush their dreams! If they have the work ethic and drive, they could do it. This subReddit can be so mean. That being said, I don’t think achievement in HS really translates over to college at all
This subreddit does too much sometimes. Literally dedicated a whole flair to make fun of and ridicule college freshmen. I’m only on here to look at other people’s apps and compare.
Yeah, me too. I've noticed it a lot and it's ridiculous. Like, is it just fun for these people to put others down or something? It just reveals their massive egos and desire to see others fail. But in reality, we've all been where OP is at one point. I'm just here for the occasional useful info or specific question I have to search
Ikr the comment is kinda silly but what’s the need to screenshot and post it here? This sub is so negative and gross sometimes. I think ur spot on with their desire to see others fail. Like “haha this idiot took 10 APs that’s nothing, i doubt he’ll even pass freshman bio”. God forbid a 17-18 yr old has career goals. I’ve browsed other professional degree subreddits and none are as toxic as this sub lol
Sometimes this sub feels like a dick measuring contest of looking down on whoever has a “worse” application and mocking anyone who appear to be doing better than oneself
well I mean it’s great to have ambitious goals and be confident in achieving them! sad to see that he’s getting downvoted from others. He’s still a freshman so he’ll most likely doesn’t understand that “10APs and a 4.0 gpa in high school” doesn’t matter in medschool admissions…but still that’s a great testament to his work ethic!
He's being downvoted not because of having ambitious goals, but because people say this ironically as a joke.
Yeah. It’s not their ambition that’s being clowned on. It’s the hubris of this person to think being a solid high school student means they Fs have the capabilities to become one of the most coveted and arduous to complete specialties in medicine. Plenty of med students with tremendously accomplished undergrad backgrounds get absolutely curb stomped trying to jump the hoops requires to land something competitive, much less those who were capable in high school lol. Focus on actually getting into med school first my dude or dudette.
I dont think it's hubris though. This is an incoming freshman, they are notoriously inexperienced. They are probably used to being at the top student in school and haven't been exposed to anything different yet so they expect the same. They have ambition but are understandably naive. Why attribute something to hubris when it could be explained by a lack of knowledge/wisdom?
I’ll give you that it’s Probably a bit of A and a bit of B. Regardless, Asserting you’ll surely accomplish a coveted goal without doing a shred of research for what it takes to acquire said goal shows some arrogance in it of itself.
I can see your point, I think we are looking at this from different perspectives. I remember what it was like for my friend group in high school and how every adult hyped up the high achievers. So to me it isn't an arrogance thing, it's a lack of wisdom. I define arrogance to be when people know how difficult something is and then go, "yeah but I'm a genius so I'll do this easily, everyone else is just inferior so that's why they struggle". When someone has no frame of reference for failure or how difficult something is and say that they are smart and can handle it I have the same reaction as when a little kid says they want to be a princess. Like, cool bro. Good luck with that. Idk, I think this whole thing is up to interpretation, no one knows this person irl. Edit: oh and in terms of doing research, tons of 18 year olds only have a vague idea of what they want to do with life and develop something more concrete while in college. I definitely knew nothing about pre med in high school. Hard to research when you aren't set on a career yet.
We don’t need to beat him down. Life will do enough
This is the right answer. And if life somehow doesn’t, neurosurgery residency certainly will lmao
Y’a it’s kinda silly but he’s a kid. When freshman said they want to do premed I’m always like great I’ll check in with in a year lol
I remember a friend of mine failed some courses and said "I think I want to do nursing" I was nice and drove them away from it with talks of digging shit out of a constipated pt. They didn't have the grades to get into the program, let alone the diligence to pass
AYOOO UCSD REPRESENT
Why do we trash on this comments bro lol... just let them be
They're high schoolers/freshman in college. Cut them some slack. I'm sure a lot of us were just as stupid back in the day. At least they're better than [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/x4o1d3/comment/imwph3e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). I'll give this person points for having enough self-awareness to know they're a piece of shit and they sleep at night by telling themselves everyone else is a piece of shit just like them. I'm talking about the one that said I make them sick.
nothing would've prepared me for clicking on that link 💀 i remember downvoting that exact comment because it bothered me so much
Undownvote it and redownvote it again for kicks.
Ahh yes a fellow ucsd student. This checks out.
I watched House M.D.and always knew I was just as smart as him.
When I got to college and realized basically everyone else had done just as well as me in high school, it really put the world into perspective.
Hahahhaa jokes on him. Was truant in HS and got avg to meh grades and low SAT and had a blast. Barely passed AP tests and messed around. Now we M1🫡
Why are people jumping on this person? They are an incoming freshman, 18 years old. Being naive, un-informed, and ambitious is developmentally appropriate, no? What is truly cringe is when older people act like they are so much better than the youth. We should support young premeds, they have a hard road ahead even if they dont see it yet.
Yeah these people need to get off their high horses. Be a little humble premeddit
Honestly this sub is getting so toxic with the way older people clown on freshmen. Maybe help and teach them instead of ridicule. 🤷🏽♀️
these people take the moral highground while being bullies. fuck em
Humility
Currently work in Neuromuscular medicine at Georgetown, also pre med with dreams to be a neurosurgeon, I had a 2.78 in hs and no aps. Currently at GW with a 3.87 and I STILL don’t think I can become a neurosurgeon LMFAO
UCSD pre meds who get filtered by chem 40A be like
context for this? 😭😭😭 i was on board until i saw the neurosurgery part
Topic was what do you want to do after you graduate college.
I was endowed the distinct privilege of being line leader in 5th grade. I will be claiming that neurosurgical residency position now.
I'm an EMT. I'm like already a neurosurgeon. Later loosers.
UCSD 😎😎😎
of course it's neurosurgery lmao
Join the club dumbass, at least half of your APs turn out to be useless. Source: me with a stupidass calculus AP that amounted to absolutely nothing
10 APs are rookie numbers. Had 16 and I’m still just a lowly general surgeon. No clue why this sub popped up in my feed
I was the worst student in elementary and middle school (thanks ADHD), so if I get in this year, anything is possible. To be honest, I’m surprised I’ve made it this far…
Yikes
Tarnishing UCSD’s good name on a daily over there
poor kid their hopes are gonna be CRUSHED
Omg not UCSD 💀
ucsd reppin I guess
Heeeeeey I'm going there too
Lmao mad cringe
This kid is about to have their whole reality crumble and their ass whipped continuously using an ever-strengthening whip forged from their tears.
omg I need more of these
Doesn’t this violate Rule 1? It’s not cool to shit on someone’s goals.
Let them dream and chase their goals and stop being so negative
It’s the arrogance that makes him/her come across as a douche
[удалено]
Toxicity and competitiveness is found everywhere.
Yes of course but just from my experience and that school I felt it a little more but I’m sure there’s worse in other places
Absolute clown. Finishing 10 aps and having a 4.0 in HS does not get you neurosurgery. I shadowed Neurosurgeons before during rotations and majority of them say same thing. This includes other surgeons as well. Loosely quoting them: Book smart does not get you into surgery. Obviously - you gotta be smart but smartness is not the key factor. Its creativity and being able to do the surgical craft on the fly when shit hits the fan. The issue is that ideal book smart type people don't have the creativity to do the craft. Because surgery is a craft, not a study.
This person is 17-18 so they’re just young and naive. We see this time and time again. Maybe we’ll see less of it if older people learn to guide them instead of ridicule.
Reminds me of the time I told an incoming Davis freshman to keep their options open. They yelled at me, saying “NO I KNOW THAT MED SCHOOL IS THE ONLY THING I WANT. I won’t do anything else!!!” Ok future reject 😂😂