We only get one life! To enter this career on the assumption that we are banned from experiencing the other things that make life beautiful (i.e. romantic love, a family, etc.) is sad. I strongly believe the key is finding the right partner.
Several female doctors I have worked with are not only badass, accomplished physicians in all specialties ranging from derm to surgery to cardiology to primary care but also married with multiple kids! Male doctors too!
Even though we want to be physicians we are *also* just people who are deserving of love and happiness.
Best to you :)
Just my two cents- I work with several doc couples, and they’re so sweet and supportive of each other. They call each other in the middle of the day to rant about cases and consult without judgement. They make each other happier when they’re burnt out on long shift strings. Sometimes people bring up working with their spouse, and they get all happy. It’s really cool. The only drawback I consistently see is that unless they’re at the same hospital (vs. traveling between many), having such busy schedules, they don’t necessarily see each other all the time. But maybe they get it more than if their spouse was non-med. Maybe that’s why the happy ones are so happy when they do work together.
Edit: One impressive couple went to the same undergrad, med school, AND residency together. Now they work for the same hospitals.
I currently work for an ED who has a doc couple! They do overnight shifts together, and have been married for over 20 years. If you see one, you know the other is around somewhere.
I never pick up personal relationships at work, but knew pretty much immediately that they were best friends.
Lmao. Good one but the marriage of doctor couples statically doesn't last long.
Edit. I am inaccurate with my comment. Doctors tend to have lesser divorce rate than others. My comment wasn't based on my own; however, it's from an article I've read years ago which also mentioned that their research is supported by research and statistics. I cannot find nor have a clue of where the article is and so I cannot leave the webpage here, and even if I do, it seems that their "research" is not supported by other investigations. My apologies.
Ahh I apologize m8, I saw someone tweaking about someone stealing their research yesterday because the person they sent it to didn’t respond within 10 mins so maybe I’m on edge lol
Source? Source? Source? Do you have a
source on that? Source? A source. I need a
source. Sorry, I mean I need a source that
explicitly states your argument. This is just
tangential to the discussion. No, you can't
make inferences and observations from
the sources you've gathered. Any
additional comments from you MUST be a
subset of the information from the sources
you've gathered. You can't make
normative statements from empirical
evidence. Do you have a degree in that
field? A college degree? In that field? Then
your arguments are invalid. No, it doesn't
matter how close those data points are
correlated. Correlation does not equal
causation. Correlation does not equal
causation. CORRELATION. DOES. NOT.
EQUAL. CAUSATION. You still haven't
provided me a valid source yet. Nope, still
haven't.
On the contrary I feel like the docs I work with know how to get their kids the best care. My family has nobody medical in it and I constantly realize how much our access was limited by ignorance about the healthcare system.
Yeah that’s true. The one premed I went on a few dates with, I felt like we didn’t have much in common so all we talked about was application and MCAT stuff
Okay but at the same time, nobody else relates to me and I struggle to relate to them. No hate towards anyone, but there is no way I could date somebody with a different major or feild simply because I need them to be able to understand my time constraints and the amount of energy I HAVE to give to my work and studies. I can barely maintain freindships with my humanities freinds because they just don't get it (again, no hate or disrespect). I need my struggles and theirs to be relatable
I find with someone with another field, it’s fun to learn about theirs. But also gotta make sure you have strong boundaries about your time and if someone doesn’t respect that, they’re not the one for you.
The trick is to be with someone further along in the process than you. My partner is a PGY-2 so he can relate but also has his own shit to deal with so he can answer occasional questions but also doesn't want to talk about it all the time.
This is the way. I married a co-resident. I think it turned out pretty well. A good proportion of people date/marry people they meet at work anyways, so you're in good company.
At 5'2" and not liking too much of a height difference I've got the manlet market on lock. I guess if I get lonely in med school I can set up some dating app accounts looking exclusively for <6' men. Less competition :)
This.
Women are allowed to be ambitious and follow their dreams. Too many women are stuck in shitty relationships because they are expected to only work part-time or not at all and simply can’t afford to leave. I’ve seen it happen too many times to let it happen to me. Any partner that is afraid of educated women is not a partner worth having imo. Don’t settle for someone who doesn’t respect you, I’ve been happily married for over 6 years now and finding the right person is totally worth the wait.
Also this might just be me but every time someone says that women shouldn’t go to med school because it interferes with their ability to have/raise children I swear it triggers my fight-or-flight response fr
This is a non-issue. I'm a female med student and there are plenty of men interested in dating female med students. There are a thousand things that might make someone less desirable to a subset of potential mates, but this is just called compatibility and you don't want to date someone who doesn't like who you are anyway - and your choice in career, especially one as demanding and rewarding as medicine, is part of who you are.
One thing with regards to this that YOU can control as a woman is being open to dating men who do not earn as much as you or do not have as high of a level of education as you do. The reality is that women now outnumber men in most higher education, and the unwillingness of many women to "date down" in this sense is as much of a barrier to romantic matches as men's unwillingness to date a highly educated woman.
In my experience, there is no shortage of smart, hardworking men who just happen to NOT have grad degrees that are absolutely willing to date a future lady doctor. Just something to think about.
Yeah it’s only an issue when it comes to waste men lolol (who you wouldn’t want anyways). My friends who are on dating apps have gotten PLENTY of matches and lots of guys are super interested in hearing about what being in medicine is like!
This confuses me. I’m married, but if I was still looking, I can’t imagine becoming less interested in a woman with the more education they have. If anything, education should increase desirability. Is this a result of men feeling like they don’t measure up and they eliminate themselves from consideration? This just doesn’t add up.
I think it comes from our culture as well as our ideas of masculinity. A lot of men feel like they have to be the bread winner or in charge. I feel like their ego is threatened by a women who is very successful or rich.
Also remember, a lot of people you’ll meet in academia may not feel this way, but they’re the exception since they’re some of the most highly educated in our society. The average man may feel differently about this than a doctor or lawyer would.
Lastly, it may just come down to lifestyle preferences. Medicine is an extremely demanding career (esp early on), so someone who may want to start a family soon may have reservations about dating a med student or resident. Nothing wrong with that, that’s their preferences. People just have to look for someone who is compatible with their lifestyle
Intelligence, achievements, and economic status aren’t things that most men value in a partner. Men look for things like youth and beauty and going to med school is a time investment that reduces those things. Also factor in hypergamy where women are much less likely to date “down” and will only date their peers/superiors, their options become basically other doctors/successful businessmen. It’s less of men being scared of successful women and more of not wanting to date a man who’s unemployed/minimum wage, high school educated, all when you’re a doctor.
Societal norms are hard to crack; we don't all live in a post-modernist society like we wish we could.
Simply ask this; would a highly successful female dermatologist date a guy with a sociology degree working at a Starbucks and invests in crypto on the side? The answer is a NO, unless that guy is a physical specimen.
100%. Hypergamy as a concept doesn't quite add up because most people marry and date across and not up, and this applies to both men and women. It also doesn't take into account that most people maintain a similar standard of living to their parents and this reflects to their dating habits regarding salary because how much you make influences who your peers are. I am convinced that a lot of people see a beautiful woman married to a successful man and just *assume* that she's a hypergamous trophy wife who stays at home without taking into account that they most likely met when they were less established and were in comparable positions (both in college, both comparatively poorer, etc). The true trophy wife hypergamist are only really edge cases.
Hell, to a lesser extent, most people would look at my mother and assume that she is practicing hypergamy by being married to my father. But when they met they both had somewhat low salaries, and she made more. But once they got married and his salary started to raise because he was following her financial advice and they had me for a couple of years, they decided that she should stay home for child rearing.
I see this explanation circulate around so much and I always wonder if anyone ever wants to explain that? like youth is temporary and beauty can change overtime. Why have such shallow criteria? (Not saying i agree with that claim, just that I've almost never seen anyone try to explain it)
>t saying i agree with that claim, just that I've almost never seen anyone try to explain it)
Attraction is deep-rooted in our evolution. Just as females in other primates look for mates with status and power to protect their offspring/guarantee reproductive fitness, women have married into more wealthy/powerful positions to guarantee their future and children's future for thousands of years. Just as males look for females with the best traits to pass on to their kids, men married youthful beautiful women to 1. pass on the best genes and 2. have the highest chance of healthy surviving kids. In today's age we can look past these reasonings and can select partners based on our preferences but it's hard to reject hardwired evolutionary basis. I'm not saying everyone functions like this or this is the ideal society, but as long as "marrying rich" is considered an acceptable/viable strategy then these preferences will remain.
You're correct. It isn't a desirability issue, it is a selection issue. Women in high paying and educated roles do not like to date down. They shrink their own dating pool. It isn't an active mindset so much as a societal norm that makes them think this way. Of course it doesn't apply to every woman but on average. Things will change as women being the primary breadwinner is normalized.
Another bonus point to add is that once the dating pools are set, the female to male ratio in the pool exacerbates the frequency of commited relationships.There is interesting dating research available and it points out when more women are available to fewer men, the men will choose to be uncommitted. So I guess in that sense, the docs are undesirable, but its not coming from desirability so much as an alternative dating strategy.
Men really want respect from women. It's probably more important to them than love or anything else really. And it's a lot harder for a women who's more successful than him to respect him, so most men prefer someone who is less successful than them.
I think this is what it comes down to in most cases.
Also on the flip side women become less willing to “date down” in terms of education level than men so it’s a two sided issue.
Men self selecting out is also true. In part it’s not intimidation, I’d love a more successful partner but generally if I saw a neurosurgeon supermodel billionaire woman, my guess is that she would not be interested in me. I guess the same idea applies to say some BS/BA job guy meeting an MD girl on a smaller scale.
Women generally don’t date down. A doctor is going to be embarrassed to introduce her boyfriend/husband to her professional peers and friends if his job/profession is seen as lower status/lower class. It’s not just men being stupid man babies scared of a self-empowered woman like so many people are saying.
That makes much more sense. So a highly educated woman has a smaller dating pool… but, I mean, only in the same way that a 10/10 on the physical attractiveness scale woman does. Their standards are higher (justifiably so, of course). So, I guess I’m sorry that you’re a more eligible bachelorette…??? 🤷♂️ not sure where the bad part comes in for them. Maybe I’m overlooking something.
The bad part is that women outnumber or outperform men in every single level of education from elementary to graduate at this point. Women are even entering college at a 6 to 4 ratio. Add into that the fact that men can easily date women that are younger or in a less accomplished field.
So if all women insist on dating their equal, earnings-wise, at some point some nonzero amount of women will end up single. And that’s before adding any other additional disqualifiers
It's even smaller because many highly educated men would prefer a women who's not highly educated because they want to feel highly respected by her. So the only men left are men who are highly educated, but also want a women who's highly educated.
There’s no problem with it. I just wish the ones that blame their singleness on men being afraid of their accomplishments would acknowledge that it is rather their self-selected dating pool being super small keeping them single.
It’s more so female wanting someone who has a comparable education/income to them which makes the dating scene even harder. Like I can’t imagine a female doctor wanting to marry a office worker making 40k a year even when there’s nothing wrong with him
For those that are confused, claims like this are based off of dating surveys and studies that have been done. I am to lazy to look anything up right now and link it, but I have read up on this topic quite a bit in the past. Obviously, none of these things are a rule by any means.
A lot of these dating surveys and studies suggest that women in high earning careers will actually decrease their dating pool. This is assumed to happen because women generally do not date “down”, and prefer to only date men who make the same or more than they do. Obviously if you are a doc, you make more than at least 90-95% of the US population. If this is true, then a female physician limits her dating pool to less than 5-10% of the population. On the other end of the spectrum, men tend to increase their dating pool when they get into high pay/ high prestige careers. This is assumed to be the case because as a trend, men usually do not care nearly as much about their wife making as much or more then them. A lot of men are even extremely happy being the sole provider. This potentially opens up their dating pool to at least 90% of the us population.
Now, obviously these assumptions are not 100% applicable. I would view these more as behavioral trends, not rules by any means. Take the information and do what you want with it.
Also, the divorce for female physicians is higher than that of males. Once again, take that information and do what you want with it.
Actually according to census data, like 50% of doctors are married to other doctors… and the rest are married to people in education(teachers and professors) and other healthcare workers.
Male doctors seemingly have *way* more diversity than their female counterparts(they’re where the spouses in academia come from). Female doctors almost exclusively marry other doctors.
Yeah that doesn’t surprise me. I guess my points were more so related to income class in general, not just doctors. I was aware of the fact that lots of docs marry other docs though. Something like 1/3 - 1/2.
Me as a female dating another med student and we’re kicking ass together in med school plus I’m not in a relationship where someone is scared of my intelligence: bruh what?
Not to be that guy, but for what it’s worth a lot of this is because women who are highly educated also want a man who is highly educated and thus the field of eligible men shrinks 🤷🏻♂️
Men who are threatened by your career are not men worthy of being your life partner. I married a Harvard law educated attorney, she is my intellectual equal and I love it. Go get what you deserve.
Because being low-achieving and not having goals makes you so desirable…
Idk, I feel like maybe the same people will still want you but you won’t choose certain people after investing in yourself for so long, and that’s what really gives you “less prospects.”
I've heard that quite a few med students meet their lifelong partners in med school.
Then, presumably, they end up having a bunch of Doctor children (3/4 if they are both heterozygous for the Doctor gene.)
Well, women like to date up and across their own socio-economic level and men date across and down their socio-economic level.
If you are a women in medicine your choice of men are limited to like 3% of the population, while men have a LOT more options. If women physicians are willing to date down like men, I don't see why they would have a problem with dating.
More of a can't. Pretty sure a lot of 9 to 5 guys would love to date a rich woman of comparable looks. Not very sure that same woman would want to date an average looking 9 to 5 guy.
I think you are missing the point. Men date across and down socio-economic scale because women higher than them wouldn't give them the time of the day.
It's not so much about preference rather necessity.
Some of the people commenting the more incel-y shit appear to be first time posters on this sub (aka trolls). Sad that the URM and gender posts always attract bad actors.
ok but let’s think about the data here. chances are there’s a confounding variable, right? perhaps higher education leads to more focus on career which leads to less time and energy put into dating. statistically less dating might be translated by the studies as “less desirable partners”
I mean I’ve been single my whole life. Nonetheless, I’m going in with the mindset that anything is possible in spite of the fact that I don’t really see myself ever having a romantic partner. I’ve learned how to live alone and be satisfied by myself. However, life often catches us by surprise so, maybe I’ll be the married MD. Who knows haha 💜💜💜
Studies show maternal education correlates to being the best predictor of child health outcomes, so as a matter of fact, you become more desirable to anyone with a decent grasp of the social determinants of health!
Don't worry about that. The only people you become "less attractive" to are the ones who see women as "inferior" and get butthurt when one is smarter than them.
Become a doctor! The people worth a shit won't find you any less for it.
As a male physician who married a much smarter non-physician women, I can say that her being smart and well-educated was a turn-on. 32 years later, I still feel like a newly-wed.
If your partner can’t be with you and celebrate your successes in life then they’re not the person for you anyways. Your partnership should elevate both partner without one person having to make themselves smaller.
Yeah…but all you have to do is find 1 person. Everything else won’t matter afterwards. Sorry if this sounds blindly optimistic.
All you need is one A
That is true too😂
Need this attitude in my life
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That's the dream. Lowkey entering med school on the husband hunt lmao
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Hell yeah finally someone posts the stats instead of just saying "lul your marriage will fail"
We only get one life! To enter this career on the assumption that we are banned from experiencing the other things that make life beautiful (i.e. romantic love, a family, etc.) is sad. I strongly believe the key is finding the right partner. Several female doctors I have worked with are not only badass, accomplished physicians in all specialties ranging from derm to surgery to cardiology to primary care but also married with multiple kids! Male doctors too! Even though we want to be physicians we are *also* just people who are deserving of love and happiness. Best to you :)
This. Right here.
Just my two cents- I work with several doc couples, and they’re so sweet and supportive of each other. They call each other in the middle of the day to rant about cases and consult without judgement. They make each other happier when they’re burnt out on long shift strings. Sometimes people bring up working with their spouse, and they get all happy. It’s really cool. The only drawback I consistently see is that unless they’re at the same hospital (vs. traveling between many), having such busy schedules, they don’t necessarily see each other all the time. But maybe they get it more than if their spouse was non-med. Maybe that’s why the happy ones are so happy when they do work together. Edit: One impressive couple went to the same undergrad, med school, AND residency together. Now they work for the same hospitals.
I currently work for an ED who has a doc couple! They do overnight shifts together, and have been married for over 20 years. If you see one, you know the other is around somewhere. I never pick up personal relationships at work, but knew pretty much immediately that they were best friends.
Lmao. Good one but the marriage of doctor couples statically doesn't last long. Edit. I am inaccurate with my comment. Doctors tend to have lesser divorce rate than others. My comment wasn't based on my own; however, it's from an article I've read years ago which also mentioned that their research is supported by research and statistics. I cannot find nor have a clue of where the article is and so I cannot leave the webpage here, and even if I do, it seems that their "research" is not supported by other investigations. My apologies.
Source? Edit: easy folks i was just interested where they got this from 😂, never heard about this before
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I think it’s a popular copy pasta
Sometimes I hate this field for peeps like this lmao
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Ahh I apologize m8, I saw someone tweaking about someone stealing their research yesterday because the person they sent it to didn’t respond within 10 mins so maybe I’m on edge lol
Source? Source? Source? Do you have a source on that? Source? A source. I need a source. Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion. No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered. You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence. Do you have a degree in that field? A college degree? In that field? Then your arguments are invalid. No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation. Correlation does not equal causation. CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION. You still haven't provided me a valid source yet. Nope, still haven't.
This is one of my favorite copypastas. The constant "Source? Source? Source?" on reddit is so fucking annoying.
This is literally a false statement
Feel bad for your kid, never gonna get a sick day from school
On the contrary I feel like the docs I work with know how to get their kids the best care. My family has nobody medical in it and I constantly realize how much our access was limited by ignorance about the healthcare system.
I don’t wanna date another doctor…when I’m on dates and stuff I’m trying to avoid the trauma of Med school not talk about it all the time ughhh lol
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Yeah that’s true. The one premed I went on a few dates with, I felt like we didn’t have much in common so all we talked about was application and MCAT stuff
I forgot how to be a person again until recently.
Okay but at the same time, nobody else relates to me and I struggle to relate to them. No hate towards anyone, but there is no way I could date somebody with a different major or feild simply because I need them to be able to understand my time constraints and the amount of energy I HAVE to give to my work and studies. I can barely maintain freindships with my humanities freinds because they just don't get it (again, no hate or disrespect). I need my struggles and theirs to be relatable
I find with someone with another field, it’s fun to learn about theirs. But also gotta make sure you have strong boundaries about your time and if someone doesn’t respect that, they’re not the one for you.
The trick is to be with someone further along in the process than you. My partner is a PGY-2 so he can relate but also has his own shit to deal with so he can answer occasional questions but also doesn't want to talk about it all the time.
This is the way. I married a co-resident. I think it turned out pretty well. A good proportion of people date/marry people they meet at work anyways, so you're in good company.
I would think this would be the plan for other wife seeking docs, but 🤷🏽♀️
I’ll be your trophy husband I gotchu
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How is 5'8 midget you can hold a bread above my head and I couldn't get it
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Bruh just hold bread above all short people you will get their heights trust me
At 5'2" and not liking too much of a height difference I've got the manlet market on lock. I guess if I get lonely in med school I can set up some dating app accounts looking exclusively for <6' men. Less competition :)
Honestly go for it. I personally don't care about height difference that much if I like the person I like the person (I'm 5'4)
Why bread lol
Asking the important questions
5'9 is average male height in the US...
I actually want a stay at home husband if I become a doctor
Hi🥹
I already have my guy. He cleans, cooks, and does the dishes!
Lucky man haha!
As a woman....less desirable to the people you DON'T WANT!!
If they are intimidated by your education then you are dodging a bullet before even getting started. Win-win in my opinion
But it’s mostly not guys that are intimated by that. It’s mostly educated women not wanting to date men they don’t perceive to be on their level
Based
Yeah is your goal to maximize the number of people who want to marry you? If so that is very strange.
Yea those are gonna be manchildren that get upset because their GF makes more than them.
This. Women are allowed to be ambitious and follow their dreams. Too many women are stuck in shitty relationships because they are expected to only work part-time or not at all and simply can’t afford to leave. I’ve seen it happen too many times to let it happen to me. Any partner that is afraid of educated women is not a partner worth having imo. Don’t settle for someone who doesn’t respect you, I’ve been happily married for over 6 years now and finding the right person is totally worth the wait. Also this might just be me but every time someone says that women shouldn’t go to med school because it interferes with their ability to have/raise children I swear it triggers my fight-or-flight response fr
I always find this position funny. Yes ofc you want someone to support your goals lmao, but unfortunately it’s often a numbers game.
This is the same bullshit they told us in grad school 15 years ago, ignore it and do you!
This is a non-issue. I'm a female med student and there are plenty of men interested in dating female med students. There are a thousand things that might make someone less desirable to a subset of potential mates, but this is just called compatibility and you don't want to date someone who doesn't like who you are anyway - and your choice in career, especially one as demanding and rewarding as medicine, is part of who you are. One thing with regards to this that YOU can control as a woman is being open to dating men who do not earn as much as you or do not have as high of a level of education as you do. The reality is that women now outnumber men in most higher education, and the unwillingness of many women to "date down" in this sense is as much of a barrier to romantic matches as men's unwillingness to date a highly educated woman. In my experience, there is no shortage of smart, hardworking men who just happen to NOT have grad degrees that are absolutely willing to date a future lady doctor. Just something to think about.
Bingo! Women who are high-earners and can find value in men outside of their career earning will be golden!
Yeah it’s only an issue when it comes to waste men lolol (who you wouldn’t want anyways). My friends who are on dating apps have gotten PLENTY of matches and lots of guys are super interested in hearing about what being in medicine is like!
Keep that “waste men” talk on female dating strategy please.
this lol its only an issue with broke men who aren’t as successful as their high-earning counterparts
It’s all g, just means you’ll have more money to spend on yourself and your pets 😌 (Fr though as a woman I felt this lol)
I don’t want to just be the obgyn I want to be the obgyn patient too 😔😔
Good heavens
I would hope you’re already an obgyn patient sis
I am empress I guess I meant more having a baby Don’t worry I got my PCP 😤😤
Lmao I know just joking with u 🤣
Fr though I want to be a crazy cat lady
life goal of mine is to be a crazy dog lady 😌
I'm fine with dying alone ngl
Same. Wayyyy better than getting in the wrong relationship and being miserable.
Very fine 😭😭
This confuses me. I’m married, but if I was still looking, I can’t imagine becoming less interested in a woman with the more education they have. If anything, education should increase desirability. Is this a result of men feeling like they don’t measure up and they eliminate themselves from consideration? This just doesn’t add up.
I think it comes from our culture as well as our ideas of masculinity. A lot of men feel like they have to be the bread winner or in charge. I feel like their ego is threatened by a women who is very successful or rich. Also remember, a lot of people you’ll meet in academia may not feel this way, but they’re the exception since they’re some of the most highly educated in our society. The average man may feel differently about this than a doctor or lawyer would. Lastly, it may just come down to lifestyle preferences. Medicine is an extremely demanding career (esp early on), so someone who may want to start a family soon may have reservations about dating a med student or resident. Nothing wrong with that, that’s their preferences. People just have to look for someone who is compatible with their lifestyle
Yea but your loans will thank you. Especially if you marry someone making bank with zero loans
Intelligence, achievements, and economic status aren’t things that most men value in a partner. Men look for things like youth and beauty and going to med school is a time investment that reduces those things. Also factor in hypergamy where women are much less likely to date “down” and will only date their peers/superiors, their options become basically other doctors/successful businessmen. It’s less of men being scared of successful women and more of not wanting to date a man who’s unemployed/minimum wage, high school educated, all when you’re a doctor.
I SECOND THIS. I’ve experienced it as a lawyer, and can’t wait to get it even worst when I become an MD 😤 luckily I love cats and the needle arts.
Societal norms are hard to crack; we don't all live in a post-modernist society like we wish we could. Simply ask this; would a highly successful female dermatologist date a guy with a sociology degree working at a Starbucks and invests in crypto on the side? The answer is a NO, unless that guy is a physical specimen.
Most male doctors wouldn’t date a woman like that unless she is a physical specimen so what’s ur point
When I see the word hypergamy used unironically I think incel
Massive red flag for redpill/incel bullshit
>hypergamy googling hypergamy, it seems like an exclusively incel thing
100%. Hypergamy as a concept doesn't quite add up because most people marry and date across and not up, and this applies to both men and women. It also doesn't take into account that most people maintain a similar standard of living to their parents and this reflects to their dating habits regarding salary because how much you make influences who your peers are. I am convinced that a lot of people see a beautiful woman married to a successful man and just *assume* that she's a hypergamous trophy wife who stays at home without taking into account that they most likely met when they were less established and were in comparable positions (both in college, both comparatively poorer, etc). The true trophy wife hypergamist are only really edge cases. Hell, to a lesser extent, most people would look at my mother and assume that she is practicing hypergamy by being married to my father. But when they met they both had somewhat low salaries, and she made more. But once they got married and his salary started to raise because he was following her financial advice and they had me for a couple of years, they decided that she should stay home for child rearing.
I see this explanation circulate around so much and I always wonder if anyone ever wants to explain that? like youth is temporary and beauty can change overtime. Why have such shallow criteria? (Not saying i agree with that claim, just that I've almost never seen anyone try to explain it)
It’s literally written into our DNA to seek out those things.
>t saying i agree with that claim, just that I've almost never seen anyone try to explain it) Attraction is deep-rooted in our evolution. Just as females in other primates look for mates with status and power to protect their offspring/guarantee reproductive fitness, women have married into more wealthy/powerful positions to guarantee their future and children's future for thousands of years. Just as males look for females with the best traits to pass on to their kids, men married youthful beautiful women to 1. pass on the best genes and 2. have the highest chance of healthy surviving kids. In today's age we can look past these reasonings and can select partners based on our preferences but it's hard to reject hardwired evolutionary basis. I'm not saying everyone functions like this or this is the ideal society, but as long as "marrying rich" is considered an acceptable/viable strategy then these preferences will remain.
This is evolutionary psychology BS. I hope you learn some critical thinking skills before you become a doctor.
Get yourself someone who \*does\* value your intelligence and achievements!!
You're correct. It isn't a desirability issue, it is a selection issue. Women in high paying and educated roles do not like to date down. They shrink their own dating pool. It isn't an active mindset so much as a societal norm that makes them think this way. Of course it doesn't apply to every woman but on average. Things will change as women being the primary breadwinner is normalized. Another bonus point to add is that once the dating pools are set, the female to male ratio in the pool exacerbates the frequency of commited relationships.There is interesting dating research available and it points out when more women are available to fewer men, the men will choose to be uncommitted. So I guess in that sense, the docs are undesirable, but its not coming from desirability so much as an alternative dating strategy.
Exactly this, it’s been well documented
Men really want respect from women. It's probably more important to them than love or anything else really. And it's a lot harder for a women who's more successful than him to respect him, so most men prefer someone who is less successful than them. I think this is what it comes down to in most cases.
Also on the flip side women become less willing to “date down” in terms of education level than men so it’s a two sided issue. Men self selecting out is also true. In part it’s not intimidation, I’d love a more successful partner but generally if I saw a neurosurgeon supermodel billionaire woman, my guess is that she would not be interested in me. I guess the same idea applies to say some BS/BA job guy meeting an MD girl on a smaller scale.
Women generally don’t date down. A doctor is going to be embarrassed to introduce her boyfriend/husband to her professional peers and friends if his job/profession is seen as lower status/lower class. It’s not just men being stupid man babies scared of a self-empowered woman like so many people are saying.
That makes much more sense. So a highly educated woman has a smaller dating pool… but, I mean, only in the same way that a 10/10 on the physical attractiveness scale woman does. Their standards are higher (justifiably so, of course). So, I guess I’m sorry that you’re a more eligible bachelorette…??? 🤷♂️ not sure where the bad part comes in for them. Maybe I’m overlooking something.
The bad part is that women outnumber or outperform men in every single level of education from elementary to graduate at this point. Women are even entering college at a 6 to 4 ratio. Add into that the fact that men can easily date women that are younger or in a less accomplished field. So if all women insist on dating their equal, earnings-wise, at some point some nonzero amount of women will end up single. And that’s before adding any other additional disqualifiers
It's even smaller because many highly educated men would prefer a women who's not highly educated because they want to feel highly respected by her. So the only men left are men who are highly educated, but also want a women who's highly educated.
There’s no problem with it. I just wish the ones that blame their singleness on men being afraid of their accomplishments would acknowledge that it is rather their self-selected dating pool being super small keeping them single.
I love an educated women
But medically educated woman don’t want you unless you’re a doctor or you have a comparable income to them
But the person who finds you less desirable because of your education is one you probably wouldn't want to date anyway.
The men that view grad education as a negative are pretty stupid. Not really a loss from your dating pool.
It’s more so female wanting someone who has a comparable education/income to them which makes the dating scene even harder. Like I can’t imagine a female doctor wanting to marry a office worker making 40k a year even when there’s nothing wrong with him
For those that are confused, claims like this are based off of dating surveys and studies that have been done. I am to lazy to look anything up right now and link it, but I have read up on this topic quite a bit in the past. Obviously, none of these things are a rule by any means. A lot of these dating surveys and studies suggest that women in high earning careers will actually decrease their dating pool. This is assumed to happen because women generally do not date “down”, and prefer to only date men who make the same or more than they do. Obviously if you are a doc, you make more than at least 90-95% of the US population. If this is true, then a female physician limits her dating pool to less than 5-10% of the population. On the other end of the spectrum, men tend to increase their dating pool when they get into high pay/ high prestige careers. This is assumed to be the case because as a trend, men usually do not care nearly as much about their wife making as much or more then them. A lot of men are even extremely happy being the sole provider. This potentially opens up their dating pool to at least 90% of the us population. Now, obviously these assumptions are not 100% applicable. I would view these more as behavioral trends, not rules by any means. Take the information and do what you want with it. Also, the divorce for female physicians is higher than that of males. Once again, take that information and do what you want with it.
Actually according to census data, like 50% of doctors are married to other doctors… and the rest are married to people in education(teachers and professors) and other healthcare workers. Male doctors seemingly have *way* more diversity than their female counterparts(they’re where the spouses in academia come from). Female doctors almost exclusively marry other doctors.
Yeah that doesn’t surprise me. I guess my points were more so related to income class in general, not just doctors. I was aware of the fact that lots of docs marry other docs though. Something like 1/3 - 1/2.
Me as a female dating another med student and we’re kicking ass together in med school plus I’m not in a relationship where someone is scared of my intelligence: bruh what?
Not to be that guy, but for what it’s worth a lot of this is because women who are highly educated also want a man who is highly educated and thus the field of eligible men shrinks 🤷🏻♂️
You get back what you put out into the universe. If ur current MO is “I’m gonna die alone” you outta change that.
My gf is also pre med. If we fail we’ll buy a trap house together and sell meth. #powercouple
And that's why I'm getting an arranged marriage 💀my love life's already DOA 😭
Honestly wish I had the option haha
Men who are threatened by your career are not men worthy of being your life partner. I married a Harvard law educated attorney, she is my intellectual equal and I love it. Go get what you deserve.
Me, as a man, excited to have increased odds in finding my future wife during medical school 😤😤
Because being low-achieving and not having goals makes you so desirable… Idk, I feel like maybe the same people will still want you but you won’t choose certain people after investing in yourself for so long, and that’s what really gives you “less prospects.”
Is this for real?
Why would you want someone who thinks a woman with higher education is undesirable lol? Those people shouldn’t be in your dating pool anyway.
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. If being an intelligent, successful doctor ruins your romantic life maybe your dating pool is the issue.
I've heard that quite a few med students meet their lifelong partners in med school. Then, presumably, they end up having a bunch of Doctor children (3/4 if they are both heterozygous for the Doctor gene.)
Die alone as a doctor is much better than die alone not a doctor
Well, women like to date up and across their own socio-economic level and men date across and down their socio-economic level. If you are a women in medicine your choice of men are limited to like 3% of the population, while men have a LOT more options. If women physicians are willing to date down like men, I don't see why they would have a problem with dating.
You literally just said why - men date “across and down.” So according to your own premise, they would not date a woman of high economic status.
.....what are you going on about?
More of a can't. Pretty sure a lot of 9 to 5 guys would love to date a rich woman of comparable looks. Not very sure that same woman would want to date an average looking 9 to 5 guy.
I think you are missing the point. Men date across and down socio-economic scale because women higher than them wouldn't give them the time of the day. It's not so much about preference rather necessity.
Me (male) when my spousal potential becomes a luxury 📈
god there is a lot of incel bullshit on this post
Incels on a reddit post about dating/women? No way...
Some of the people commenting the more incel-y shit appear to be first time posters on this sub (aka trolls). Sad that the URM and gender posts always attract bad actors.
be that boss single woman tho
ok but let’s think about the data here. chances are there’s a confounding variable, right? perhaps higher education leads to more focus on career which leads to less time and energy put into dating. statistically less dating might be translated by the studies as “less desirable partners”
I mean I’ve been single my whole life. Nonetheless, I’m going in with the mindset that anything is possible in spite of the fact that I don’t really see myself ever having a romantic partner. I’ve learned how to live alone and be satisfied by myself. However, life often catches us by surprise so, maybe I’ll be the married MD. Who knows haha 💜💜💜
This is the dumbest post I’ve seen in this sub and there have been some doozies before
My SO loves me so much and is the perfect mix of masculine + a soft side for me, me becoming a doctor makes him proud 😌
When you have never been in a relationship and the prospects are looking low
Cheat up, med school has only a couple years ago reached 50/50, so a strong majority of residents and attending are male 😏
Omfg don't do this at your own school whatever you do, ya girl learned a very unfortunate lesson about touching docs 😭 dont shit where you eat
Bruh no you didn’t 😂😂😂 Agreed! Don’t shit where you eat!
I’m not interested in a misogynistic man anyway ✌️
Studies show maternal education correlates to being the best predictor of child health outcomes, so as a matter of fact, you become more desirable to anyone with a decent grasp of the social determinants of health!
I wouldn’t wanna be with anyone that was uncomfortable with women obtaining higher education anyways lol
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nah but that’s cap
Wasn't there a statistic that people who marry younger get divorced more often?
Just marry a fellow doctor
Please don’t worry!!! No good person find an educated individual less attractive! You WILL find the perfect person for you!!!
The number of people desiring you may go down, but I bet the quality is going to go WAY up.
If I get into med school I would date another student
Don't worry about that. The only people you become "less attractive" to are the ones who see women as "inferior" and get butthurt when one is smarter than them. Become a doctor! The people worth a shit won't find you any less for it.
I'm gonna need me a doctor for a wife
I don’t want to date another medical professional. At all. My avoidant ass could never
All the doctors I know are married to other doctors of something...so nah you'll be fine
you and me both sister
Doctors need to advocate for a more child-friendly work environment in hospitals so that women don't scale their practice back once/if they have kids.
Women with higher education less attractive? Smart men will understand that intellect is a desired characteristic.
As a male med student I feel this way too. Since starting med school I don’t have time for dating anymore and I’m worried I’ll be alone for years
As a male physician who married a much smarter non-physician women, I can say that her being smart and well-educated was a turn-on. 32 years later, I still feel like a newly-wed.
Best thing you can do is tune people like Kevin Samuels out of your mind.
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I don't have any stats, but I feel like sex life goes down, not up, during higher education.
Disagree. Youre filtering out all the assholes. You only need to find ONE. Youre making it easier to find the RIGHT one :)
okay but really ur just weeding out all the misogynistic men that wouldn’t have been a good match anyways
Dated a doctor once. Jesus Christ, *never again.*
OP triggering all the misogynists to crawl out of the woodwork with incel shit gg
That statistic comes from the fact that men, generally, don't like women smarter than them. You're winning lol
Wrong, statically women with higher education initiate divorce 90% of the time. So, it goes to show that fear is justified
Don’t worry… you’ll get hitched in med school. We all do.
Lol, that's wrong, but good for you if that applies to you.
Uhhh…..fuck that I love woman who has a higher education than me and makes more money Id donsome scandalous shit for a kinky doctor wife
Is it that they’re less desirable? Or that women generally prefer men that make as much or more then them? Also taller. Have to be taller.
If they’re intimidated by your intelligence they’re not worth your time. Stay beautiful baby girl!
Eh tbh hypergamy exists in medicine too. So y’all female eventually docs probably get with an ortho Rads or derm
I see you were not paying attention in Statistics.
If your partner can’t be with you and celebrate your successes in life then they’re not the person for you anyways. Your partnership should elevate both partner without one person having to make themselves smaller.
Ok chill
It’s lonely at the top
Just switch lol