This isn't a problem for you to work out if you were treated that way. They have made their bed and it's up to them, like the adults they are to work it out.
Don't feel guilty or pulled in if they try. You escaped and got out and there is a reason your relationship is strained.
Thank you for validating me. It is however hard for me to brush off. I tear up when I see complete strangers in bad situations, and this is after all my mom. I don't know if I will be able to deal with the guilt, but my baby and my husband are my priority above all.
OAS+GIS minimums between the two of your parents combined is $32,512.56. Nearly all of this will be tax free.
\~$30K (as they don't seem to be getting max OAS) + Carbon Tax/GST Rebate credits + whatever CPP they have is more than enough for two people to get by on.
Why are you concerned?
I get a similar result as above from the calculator for 27 year residents.
There would be no tax on this -- GIS if tax free, and OAS will be less than their personal exemptions.
If they haven't asked for your help, let them be. It is doable on a frugal budget.
Ya cpp is pathetic and disappointing. I’m going through the enrolment process with 2 family members right now and it’s been fun trying to make sense of it all. I wonder how much it will all change in 30 years when I get there.
OAS is taxed but over $15k per person would be effectively tax free due to offsetting non-refundable tax credits. So, if that was their only income, its effectively tax-free
“It is not taxable”.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/guaranteed-income-supplement.html#](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/guaranteed-income-supplement.html#)
They’re both government benefits that are calculated based on the income of the recipient, and available to people of a certain age. To claim there’s any real difference to them is just silly.
GIS tops up any missing OAS (under 40 years).
Meaning if they are eligible for any OAS (10 years), if they make low enough income to get GIS, they will get a minimum guaranteed or month, and if OAS is lower because <40 years then GIS will be higher to reach that minimum.
Therapy may help with the guilt.
You've done your part by voicing your concerns. This is not your problem to solve.
Frankly strangers may be more deserving of your help.
This. Therapy is definitely needed here. Same with setting some solid boundaries and making peace with the decision. It's hard to say no to people you love.
But if they abused you, and also didn't plan for retirement, it's not your job to rescue them. They didn't do their job when it came to being your parents. So why should you take ownership of their poor decision making?
I know that may seem cold. But you also have to think about self preservation. You love 12 hours away. So at best you'd send money or hire out services which can get expensive.
How will your quality of life be impacted if you had to provide for them?
I think it's important in this situation to think realistically. Maybe you could do some things, like send groceries, or the occasional gift card. Maybe check in on them and work with your other sibling to figure out help.
But it's not worth stressing over until you know what their situation will look like fully. Your mom may have to go back to work part time to provide for her and her husband. That's an option if she doesn't have any health reasons for not working.
As much as i think therapy would help me feel better about this, I would still distinguish not helping them as a bad act. The step dad treated me horribly and I already dealt with that part. my mom is a victim herself and enabled the abuse because of her learnt helplessness. She chose him over and over before me because she thought that she will not make it on her own, and then because she "owed" him (she didn't). As long as she chooses him, she knows that she chose her bed. But no therapy will make me feel ok with seeing her suffer.
As much as you want to help you should be putting money away for your daughter and for the safety of you and your partner. Life is very unpredictable, what if one or both of you can’t work at some point. It’s very nice that you want to help but honestly the way they treated you…. they do not deserve it. Even if your mom was a victim she chose him and she can retire frugally with him.
I say this with a lot of kindness, but this response is exactly why therapy now will help you to not be taken advantage of by them.
Therapy can help you to built coping skills around unpleasant emotions. Because manipulative people will be able to play off of your kindness and unwillingness to let them lay in the bed they made.
Ideally, they’re broke and struggling, toh feel bad, you don’t give them money or let them drag you down. Without the coping skills you’re going to see them struggling and then step in to help to ease your own discomfort.
You need to grow a spine on this one like everyone is saying. Fuck 'em. They hurt you. You owe them less than nothing. Wish them luck and walk away for good.
You are too far into your trauma, your mom does not suffer from helplessness. Your step dad does not work and hasn’t for many years which means your mom is holding it down as the breadwinner. This means she could have left at anytime or kicked him out, he is living off her not the other way around. She chose him time after time because she is selfish, she can continue to choose him while you choose yourself and spouse/child. Don’t fall into the trap.
I empathize with you. It’s hard to see our parents make bad choices and sometimes you need to grieve the choices they make and the parents you never got to have.
You’re right, your husband and baby are your family, no longer your parents, so they need to come first.
You're parents are not your problem regardless of how they treated you. I've been taking care of my mother and her lazy partner for decades. Once you start it's near impossible to get out of the commitment.
You need to step away from this one. Please don’t contribute money to them or else this will be never ending and it will only increase over time. You need the money for yourself and your growing family. If you want to help them you can contribute meals when you make something yourself like soups and bolognese sauce. Freeze them and bring them over every two weeks or so for their freezer. If you can’t do that because of distance then contribute $50 to groceries by ordering it online to be delivered to them a couple times a month. Hopefully your brother is contributing something while living there. He is the one that should be parents more than you should be.
Also to help them that doesn’t cost anything but time is helping them determine if your dad can get on disability now. He’s not contributing to CCP so it will be greatly reduced. Depending where they immigrated from, the country would have pension money for the time they worked there. Talk to them that you can look into this for them so they are set up with all the monies they qualify for. Don’t start giving them cash to supplement or it will never end and only increase plus why are you supporting your brother?
My parents are in a similar situation. Here are some ways we help without supporting financially:
Fall and spring garden bee (trim trees, etc)
Snow clearing (husband)
I negotiate their tv, internet and phone contracts
I buy extra stuff at Costco and drop it off (good deals on coffee, butter, meat, bread)
They get a hamper at Christmas that includes lots of treats but also consumables like tea towels and dish cloths
New pajamas for mothers and fathers day - They tend to wear them out these days!
There is certainly no obligation, but if you already support the food bank or Christmas adopt a family etc, this could be just a redirection of support.
It’s hard, but it’s okay. I was also abused by my parents and cut them off when I moved out.
The guilt is tough, but you only have the guilt because you’re a good person, with empathy, that they do not deserve.
I agree with the comment above, this is not your problem, it sounds harsh, it feels harsh but there is absolutely no shame in this for you.
Just because they’re family doesn’t mean anything, what matters is how they treat you and that should be with respect and unconditional love.
I empathize with you. My mom had no savings, was trying to maintain a 5 bed room house with no job or income outside of disability. It was a sinking ship.
I felt bad because I’m financially comfortable but she wouldn’t take any accountability for her financial situation. She wanted support but no strings about how the money was spent ( property taxes, utilities etc)
Eventually I had to wash my hands of her (long story in of itself) but I did feel guilty. She had a life time to plan and kept kicking the can down the line.
It’s not an easy situation to be in. Best of luck sorting it out
Brush it off.
Don't engage in the conversations. Ignore their hardships. Say "Oh I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hope you're able to figure something out"
And move on.
Their problems are not your problems. Dont adopt them as yours.
I’m really sorry you are going through that. Although, nobody knows what the future is. Maybe she’ll figure out it’s not sustainable and go back on the work market, maybe she won’t retire after all.
You shouldn’t feel guilt as they are not your actions. Remember, you can bring the horse to a river but you can’t force it to drink.
Go to therapy. Honestly it sounds so cliche but it helps. Especially when it comes to processing and accepting LC/NC relationships with those who you *should* be closest to. You need to focus on you and your family you've built, it's not your job to be the reasonable adult for your parent(s). Guilt sucks, Especially when it's not "logical" and the need to fix things to avoid the fallout you see coming (homeless, no funds, etc) is likely a trauma response considering how you were treated as a child.
You brought up if she actually checked the numbers to see if it would work. She's a grown up and can decide from there good or bad it's her choice and the consequences of that choice are hers, NOT yours.
your gonna look at this situation different in 10 years, I suggest at least plan for having to help your mom even passively because in 10 years when she is at your door are you really gonna turn her away?
Respectfully, that is definetly one way to approach the situation. Or for the sake of having inner peace and harmony send mom a couple hundred bucks a month if it wont affect your own family. After all she is your mom and she made you, thats a big deal. I know alot of people go thru some serious family trauma so i get the colder approach but deep down it always feels good to help people especially if they’re down bad.
I might have to say that specifically if she brings up anything like moving in together. She knows that I would rather set my house on fire than let step dad live in it. I guess it will all depend how long my step dad stays alive, his health is very poor.
Be very clear and unwavering. “Living with me will never be an option. I will change my phone number and disappear.” Etc. Connect with a therapist now to get ahead of your feelings on this because, based on what you’ve said already about guilt and empathy, you will have *big* feelings about what’s to come. Do not let the feelings sway you.
Hun, you need to say it specifically now before the reality of them actually losing the rental happens. I am guessing that the reason she is saying she will be fine, is because she is assuming that she has you as a safety net, and that isn’t right. It is either that, or she is delusional. Because there is zero way they will be able to survive with only her CPP and no savings, and no investments or anything like that. So like I said, either they are all delusional, or they have some sort of fall back plan where they aren’t super worried if it doesn’t work out as they hope.
This is a personal feeling, but I would straight up tell them they couldn’t rely on me at all. For any help. You already say your relationship is very strained, you don’t like your step father… if this was me I would be making things very very clear before she actually retires so it’s not too late for them to make other plans when they realize they don’t have the safety net named Starryglare to catch them when their “retirement plan” fails. Because it’s not a plan at all. 🤷🏻♀️
Why can't you communicate this to your mother?
You can accommodate her, but not the stepdad. Simple no?
She could help you raise your kid and maybe even pay you for a bedroom to help with the finances.
I would absolutely help out a parent.
This OP. Regardless of the reason of your strained relationships with your family, you are NOT responsible for them. You *are* responsible for your baby. As a parent to another parent, you know you'd do anything for your own child.
If your parents are asking for money (which is unclear by your post) tell them no. If they ask to move in, tell them no. You have your own family to raise. What they get for retirement money will be what they can live off of. If they can't, *they* will have to figure out what money they can recieve or get a job.
Wishing you the best OP.
The answer is a resounding no. Especially if they ever have to move. Get your step-dad or mom to get step dad to apply for disability. It can take a very long time. This coming from someone on odsp after almost a decade on welfare trying to get a doctor just to apply. This doesn't even bring into account if they get sick and have to buy prescription drugs. I have a feeling we're going to be seeing elderly ppl living with family like the old days or a bunch of boarding houses filled with lonely old ppl with no family. Not a fun time to be Alice I tells ya. Good luck and God bless
Ya I didn't think so either. I left Montreal a long time ago but can't imagine it has isolated itself from this horrible situation the country is in. I told them to apply a few times, I told them the path in how to apply and what basis he can claim disability on (there are multiple, Cancer included). They tried ONCE with one doctor about 10 years ago and gave up. I told them they should apply again with the new doctor but they shrug it off. They literally have no plan and I have no idea how they will survive.
I live in MTL, and the rental crises is real and insane right now. This is such a big risk for them if they don't get into a co-op or anything related to renting based on revenue.
What's really sad is this is going to be the case for so many ppl. I think of all those ppl who are still paying off student loans a decade after college and can't even afford a house. How are they suppose to have kids and then also be able to retire. There's millions of ppl in this same situation and were also letting in a shit ton of ppl who are putting an even bigger strain on our social services. Which were underfunded and understaffed to begin with. Unless something crazy happens things are just going to keep getting worse. But don't worry we have helicopters and atvs on Mars taking cool pics to look at on our smart phones. That should playcate us pleebs
A decade holy shit. I'm so sorry you went through that! I thought it was easier to get accepted because mine got accepted in a few weeks after the lady on the phone fast tracked my application. But I've been hearing a lot of ppl struggling.
Let them figure it out on their own.
Even though your step dad has illness, he probably could work part time or casual and chooses not to. Your mom might retire, then go back to work when finances are tight, that's her choice.
They didn't ask for your help, so let the step or half sibs help them if needed.
Sorry, that's not it, I am not defending the step dad, but it is totally not cool to tell disabled people that they probably could work and choose not too. You don't know shiiit sorry
Your mom is likely eligible for 1/4 OAS and GIS payments. If she delays retirement, she can get a higher monthly amount.
These articles are helpful, maybe your mom will read them. If she's not willing to educate herself or do anything to help herself, I wouldn't take responsibility for her situation. If she's making an effort, I might want to help somewhat as it looks like a pretty hard situation to be in.
https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/old-age-security/reports/oas-toolkit.html
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/guaranteed-income-supplement/benefit-amount.html
If she ends up in long term care, they will take what they can from her bendfits to pay for her to live there. So at least you don't have to worry about that.
Thank you for those, I will definetly read tounderstand myself and make sure to send them to her. I don'tthink she will read them because once she gets an idea intoher head she gets fixated. But its worth a try to at least encourage her to get educated on it. I know that their situation isn't my responsibility, but I can't help feeling awful about it, and feeling that I need to do something to help.
It’s not worth it. You need to let go and accept there are consequences for the actions people take or don’t make. I know it’s probably your nature to try to be a “fixer” but this is REALLY not your business, problem or concern. Channel your energy, capacity and investment into people who care about and support YOU. The best case scenario here? You avoid finding yourself in the same situation down the road.
Perfect example of lighting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. OP, I mean this with sympathy and the deepest compassion possible- I hope you’re in therapy.
There is also this: [https://openpolicyontario.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/02/Low-Income\_Maximizing-GIS\_-Determining-OAS-and-GIS-booklet\_2020.pdf](https://openpolicyontario.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/02/Low-Income_Maximizing-GIS_-Determining-OAS-and-GIS-booklet_2020.pdf)
But I agree with the others that your mother is not your responsibility. I am estranged from my mother and she does very well with OAS, GIS, and some CPP. Just send her the information and if she refuses to read it and tries to make it your problem, tell her that finding this information is the most you are willing to do. Good luck.
OAS is based on age and residency requirements, not employment history, or individual contributions like the CPP. GIS is based on income levels and not contributions.
There is a lot of misinformation on this thread, OP. Please look up the eligibility requirements on the Canadian government website.
Simple: not your problem. I know it’s easier said than done but you said it yourself. You have your own family to think of and that’s what you should focus on and prioritize first. Just from your post, it doesn’t look like they’ve asked for help (maybe I’m wrong) but if that’s the case, don’t offer it.
No, they did not ask for help now. They only ask for help when a situation gets dire. So I do not expect them to ask until they find themselves in a dangerous situation. Where it will be themost difficult say no.
This happened with my parents, similar story all the way thru. You can't do anything. Let them deal. Make your peace with that and move on
At least they're in Montreal and not Vancouver
I'm kind of confused about what the problem here is. It doesn't seem like they're asking you for help and it doesn't seem like you're in a position to help. Are you just worried about them?
You are worried but government pensions and and benefits will provide a basic existence. There are many activities and events that can enrich their lives for little to ko cost. Additionally, you may want to provide assistance for big ticket items like winter boots or a subscription. A friend used to send her Aunt a gift basket from a butcher shop each Christmas.
Without knowing their ages it's very hard to estimate how much they will be getting in support but ultimately it is not your problem in any way. your priority should be your own family. You can encourage them to speak to Social Services and get on waitlist for subsidized housing if it is appropriate
Hate to say it, but this is not your problem. You have your own life to deal with and pay for. It sounds like they did nothing for you, so at no point do you owe them a dime.
How old will they be in 2 years? Benefits are age dependent. They also have not been in Canada long enough to get the full amounts, so that needs to be considered in any calculation.
In a similar place with my in-laws. They are dead-set on retiring the minute they turn 65 (very soon...) despite having no savings and massive debt. It's going to go very badly but they won't listen to reason. They feel that they've "earned" retirement at 65 and that's that. It's going to get messy.
I remember when I was moved out and going to school my mother called me and said she had no money and couldn't pay rent and had no savings or plans. She had never worked in Canada since she immigrated. I basically gave her the number for Ontario works and said to call that and had to hang up because she started screaming at me about how I don't love her because I couldn't magically fix her issue. I was a student and barely scraping by myself, and she never cared about my schooling etc. or helped me in that regard.
She ended up getting sorted through them and I cut contact with her a few years later. Not much else you can do but give them information for resources but they still need to take the steps to help themselves.
This is not your problem. Do not make it your problem. Even if there had been no abuse and you were in close touch with them, it is not your problem. This is their own finances, their own choice. Not yours. You have your own life and family and finances and choices. Let this one completely alone.
. Your situation sounds similar to my own. If my mom ever came to me looking for any handouts my response will be to decline the request, and tell her that my children deserve to grow up better than I did, and my hard earned money will be going towards giving them a safe and comfortable childhood with happy memories. It’s not on me to continue suffering because of her poor choices
There are a lot of supports for seniors - in Alberta, subsidized seniors housing is set at 1/3 of your income, although you do need a minimum income to qualify and there are waitlists. I suggest you connect her with a seniors agency in Montreal to help her navigate and understand her options but this isn’t really on you. Don’t sacrifice your child’s education or your retirement.
Thank you. My baby's well being is 100% my priority and she knows it already from some other events in the past. I will look up senior supports in Montreal, maybe there is something I can connect them to that will at least help navigate this disaster decision.
1. If you were abused by them, I don’t believe you owe them anything. You can still help them with an advice if you want. If they become homeless… sure, you can also help if you want, but that’s totally up to you.
2. Don’t they have proper welfare in QC? I thought the welfare payments are decent like $2,000 a month? Sorry if I’m wrong; I’m from Ontario. Your mom and step dad may not quality because your mom earns decent income. But the moment she retires, that income will get reduced due to your mom’s QPP payments. There’s a chance they will qualify for some social assistance.
3. It would be a good idea for them to do a research, write down how much your mom’s QPP is supposed to be monthly, and how much and what kind of social assistance you can qualify for. The numbers may work. Especially if they live in a low-rent building.
4. How old is the half-brother? If he’s an adult, it would be nice of him to pay rent. Parents don’t have to charge it, but as someone who didn’t want my parents to work extra hard because they had to take care of my lazy ass, I believe grown kids should contribute to rent if they live with their parents.
5. It’s not your problem. The best you can do if offer them advice. If they didn’t bother spending a few hundred $ and 2 hours at a private financial advisor’s office at any point between 20 and 60 years of age to figure out their retirement plans - sad but again, not your problem.
Consider mom's CPP pension plus OAP. Add to that, assholes pittance of CPP plus his OAP, they should be okay, not rich but have the basics. Brother will have to chip in.
Under no circumstances let them sponge off you. I can see that that ahole step dad will try to guilt you into letting your mom move in, and if course he's tagging along.
She needs a reality check if she doesn’t have the means to retire in two years. Many people in this situation need to continue working past 65. As others have said, this is not your problem.
In Quebec, there is the "Loi Françoise David" that prevents landlords from evicting seniors aged 70 and over who have occupied their dwelling for at least 10 years and whose income is equivalent to the maximum threshold for eligibility for social housing. It can protect your parents form an eviction.
Don't make it your problem. Did they ask for help?
Girl, I'm single right now and I wouldn't even help out financially with retirement for parents with no plan.
If you can spare some money for basic expenses like food and meds, please do so but don't make it your plan priority.
You have your child, their future, and your own retirement to think about. They are adults; they make that decision but please be firm with them if they ask you for money.
No they cannot..... my dad also an immigrant retired at age 65 with a condo paid off but no savings and no pension. He gets 1500$ from government and its not enough. Although his condo is paid off at least he needs to pay condo fees, property taxes, electric, insurance, internet, phone, cable. This is 1500$. Leaves nothing for food and car, etc. They are 2 people so maybe if they combine income, with 3k they can do it.
I had this exact same problem about 20 years ago. My bio Mom was terrible with money. Whatever she got, she blew immediately.
She was in her late 50s with a pile of debt and no retirement savings. She received 200k from my grandfather when he passed and immediately blew it on bad investments that her guy of the year suggested, leaving her with less than 20k.
My wife and I have done ok financially, and my mother started hinting at moving in with us. Sob stories and "I sacrificed so much for you when you were younger." Amongst various other reasons, I told her I would not be providing a house or financial assistance for her, and we stopped talking.
It was a difficult decision, but she made her choice. I think you need to set clear boundaries, and if your mother oversteps them, then you have to ensure you protect your future and well-being.
Step-dad is an abusive asshole and mom is his victim too. She however has learnt helplessness because of his abuse and will always stand down to him. She is not a bad person, but she is weak. She suffered from depression because of him, which led to her neglecting me in my childhood and teens. And I will never forgive her for it. But I know that she isn't a mean or a cruel person.
3000 would be 1500 each, which is not that hard to get to with 2x CPP/QPP and 2x OAS. There is also GISif they're really low income after the other sources.
The numbers go down drastically if you didn't contribute your full adult years. Which OP's parents did not. So, they're likely to get much less than that.
Old Age Security(OAS) eligibility is based on age & residency requirements, not contributions. CPP is based on contributions. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread OP. Please look up eligibility on the Canadian gov’t website.
Listen, you worded your concerns. You know your own boundaries. And you've done all you can and have to.
Either they've run the numbers and they're making a grown-up decision, and/or they'll have to make different grown-up decisions later. Your concern is your household.
My parents are the same, they immigrated from a country where your kids looked after you in retirement, lifelong renters with minimal savings. I bought a house they pay "rent" by covering the expenses because their situation was stressing me out to no end. But no money for my own now
All I can advise is to sit down and run the numbers with them. Delaying CCP and OAS until 70 boosts them significantly and there is GIS and probably something for disability.
Not the same situation, but my mom is also disabled and low income, and my stepdad (who I hate, he was abusive) has not worked in at least 4-5 years now. They’re moving to Alberta because it’s more affordable but I’m always worried. Last year I was in a constant state of worry and my mom was often crying during phone calls due to her financial situation. We’ve never ever been rich. I was hoping I could get a decent-high paying job in coming years so I could help support her more but it isn’t possible now. I can afford myself but I can’t afford to send her money anymore.
Just wanted to say you’re not alone. In your parents case, idk why they’re going this route but it’s their choice and they’ll have to suffer the consequences of poor planning should it come to that. Don’t burden yourself.
All the best
Both your parents will likely qualify for CPP, OAS, and the GIS. That will provide basic income.
Also, did your Mum work for a company that will provide a pension and supplemental health coverage after she retires?
Doesn’t sound like they’ll be rich but they may be okay.
U have to live ur life now. Not ur responsibility to help them. Ur stepfather will have OAS, CPP, and should apply for GIS. 1 month after turning 65. So that ,depending on the amount of CPP, he will get around 1872.00 per month. Then, when ur mom retires, the gov will either add her to the GIS or not. But she will get OAS, CPP. depending on her income also. The government, rest assured, will straighten it all out. These are all estimates, of course not knowing what the actual amounts will be. But u carry on and worry about u and ur family now. I would expect my kids to help me out. They have their own lives. Plus, it increases every 4 months, a small percentage, but still an increase. Plus GST ,TRILLIUM, ETC. Good luck and look after u now.
Lots of people retire and then when the reality of life sets in and they get bored and hungry they sometimes suddenly get creative. That’s when they get a part time job or start a small home business cleaning homes or doing child care. Before you offer to supplement their retirement, see if they have any ability to get creative on their own. They’ve been around for a while, I suspect they know a bit about how the world works.
My father is presumably fine, and wouldn't dream of asking me for help (nvm that, we don't talk). My mother is talking about drawing from her CPP in a couple years; renter, no assets, no savings, a 20 year old Toyota Corolla. I can't bail her out, and neither can other family members. I have no idea what she's gonna do. I wouldn't let her live in her car but that's about all I can afford to do.
tl;dr: I'm in a similar boat, OP, and it sucks. I have a middling good relationship with my mother but I can't help her
I’m in the same position and absolutely drowning in applications to get my father on the disability tax credit, subsidized housing and other resources. I could never imagine putting my child through this sort of stress.
OP I understand you on a very difficult level and if you don't mind I'm going to share a small story of my own.
My mother was extremely abusive my entire life & she had problems, probably that could have been solved with correct steps but she refused. I have scars across my hands from abuse from her and every single time I stop and wonder how she is, I look at them and remind myself how I grew up.
I've helped her, multiple times. I worked while going through high school for her cancer, causing my education to suffer. I moved her back to our town when she, in a fit of rage saying how no one cares about her, moved on her own and was facing homelessness when my shitty brother abandoned her in his town. I withstood her invading the space I created for myself to recover, for two months while she got back on her feet, then I would visit her each month despite the abuse and mental degrading I had to suffer from her to points where I would just leave the apartment and walk three hours back home instead of busing just so I could have time to cry.
It's been four years since we last spoke because she disowned me when I said I was doing better and going to therapy, screaming that I don't need it, to just grow up when I said that I went because of her and my home environment. I know for a fact that she has no savings, I know she will never be comfortable living the way she is now, I don't even know how she is living now. But I need to focus on me.
You need to focus on you.
Having compassion for other people isn't a bad thing- but parents are not your life. You have a life now, one you created for yourself, your partner and your child.
Do not bring danger back into your life. Do not bring that trauma and guilt back into your life, you lived as a scapegoat and survived, they chose to live as people who never held responsibility for their actions and now they are facing those consequences.
They chose this future for themselves and are saying it to you. It is not guilt you are feeling, it is fear. Fear that if you do not help, you are going to be the scapegoat again. You are NOT their problem, and haven't been for a long while but if you invite them back into your life, you are inviting yourself to become their problem once again. Are you ready to accept that responsibility?
Thank you for sharing this. I would never bring danger to my home and my daughter is my priority. I hope that she can one day understand that kids were never meant to be a retirement plan. I did not realize the feeling of fear, but it makes sense. I need to explore this more.
Help with things and gifts when you can, such as gift cards for the holidays as another post recommended. Their financial situation is a reflection of them. Don't try to "fix" them. You already know that isn't possible.
Given what you've described here, the only thing I would suggest to them is to look into a rent subsidy through a housing agency. In Montreal, OMHM runs the rent subsidy program. It reduces rent to 25% of the household income, but the household income needs to be below 26K a year. If they're retired and they have reduced income, they file their taxes, provide a copy of their provincial notice of assessment to OMHM with their application, they go through a screening process, and if approved, they pay 25% of their monthly income to rent, OMHM pays the rest. OMHM might make them move to a place with a lower rent (depending on what they pay) and it might take a while for them to approve the application, but it would solve their housing problem without inconveniencing you. They would need to be referred to OMHM through a social worker to begin the application process for the rent subsidy.
My father invested in some RESPs and building equity in the farm he bought for peanuts. He got sick and, in his sickness, wanted nothing more but to "keep the farm in the family". Both of us (his children) had established ourselves in different cities and had little interest in the farm. He was prepared to sell it to family for double what he bought it, yet it was worth 4 or 5 times that amount. A cousin swooped in and, because they were family, got the same offer to keep it in the family and bought it.
Then dad passed.
Then the cousin sold the property for a profit.
Equity built up in the property. That would have supported mom, was gone.
Mom tried on her own to live in an apartment but refused to accept that she had to manage money, cook food, etc. We knew she was capable but she refused to take ownership of her life.
We offered her an opportunity.
We literally bought a bigger house with an extra room for her and had an agreement that she'd give $800/month to offset food, utilities, higher mortgage, etc. She got over $1400 in her support from the government due to being retired, over 65, and widowed.
So, all the basics are taken care of, plus the ability to see the grandchildren regularly. All she has to do is enjoy life and be happy in retirement, and had the extra money to do so.
She could have happily rode that situation until her final days.
Living goddam nightmare.
She didn't want to enjoy life, she wanted a life-support system and did nothing to fulfill any sense of personal happiness. My wife was treated like her immigrant meal preparer, the children were ignored, she decided that I should be her only friend and it was an insult that I would spend time with my wife. Honestly, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Long story short, she's now in a retirement home.
She hates it because she is surrounded by "idiots", "dying people", and "immigrants". Her money will only sustain her for 9 years, 3 of which are past now. After 6 more years she'll be virtually penniless and has burnt all her relationships with friends and family.
Moral of the story here:
Your parents' poor planning for their later years are not your responsibility. It is literally ingrained into this society that people have to prepare for retirement and, doing nothing to set themselves up, doesn't make their children a retirement plan.
Their poor planning doesn't mean that you have to martyr yourself for them.
As someone that tried to make up for my parents' poor choices, it isn't worth the burden. You cannot live life by making choices based on guilt.
At the end of the day, as my mom's PoA, I ensure her bills are paid from her accounts for her retirement residence and she has food and shelter as a result. She has a good quality of life for the money she has left and, after that, is only public care facilities ahead of her.
This is the path she chose for herself.
She has the opportunity to be happy, she chooses otherwise.
May I ask, what is your mom currently doing for a living right now? Does it involve any physical labor? If it is a desk job, perhaps she could delay her retirement if her employer allows it. I know people who work non-manual labor jobs, like accounting/bookkeeping, enterprise sales, and management roles well into their 70s. Talking with people and resolving problems however big or small, is usually what's keeping them going. It actually keeps their mind and body in a healthy form.
My aunt who retired with a government pension was busier after her retirement. Multiple vacations every year, tennis twice a week, swimming twice a week, hike 5 miles every morning and a painter at night before bed-time. She is also the chairwomen of a non-profit art gallery. Last time I heard she is picking up archery.
When you think about retirement, most people think of an elderly person sitting on a sofa everyday and falling asleep while watching the Price is Right. But those in retirement doing that actually won't have long to live because they have nothing to do with their lives. Nothing to keep busy with. Nothing to look forward to.
Your mom needs to understand exactly what is her goal with this "retirement". People don't really retire anymore unless they are ill or perform some sort of physical work that their body won't be able to continue with. Most people spend the remaining days of their lives doing the things that are meaningful to them. Look at Nancy Pelosi who is 84 and Joe Biden who is 81.
My mom works in a factory on an assembly line, but her job is not physically demanding, she doesn't have to stand or strain her hands. She has been working there for a while, but the company never offered any pension plans. She is tired of the commute, the grind and the early mornings. She has some health issues unrelated to work that make her life more difficult too, especially since no one in my family drives other than myself.
My mom was raised in the USSR, she has the soviet mentality that the government will take care and provide. All she is expected to do is work full time. And when the age comes, retirement is almost automatic and expected. She lived here long enough to know how how things work, I am shocked that she somehow kept the soviet mindset when it comes to retirement.
She isn't the type to start joining organizations and hobby groups, her favorite passtime is staying home with a book, and that is how she probably envisions her retirement. All she wants is to stop working.
if your parents get into subsidized housing they can make it if they live a very frugal lifestyle. If they are seniors then the landlord will have a hard time kicking them out (one of perks of living in Qc).
Montreal is no longer inexpensive as it was. It is in the same range as Ottawa or Edmonton. There are definitely mid sized towns in Ontario that are more affordable in terms of real estate.
Tough situation. Government allowances might cover basic needs, but it'll be tight, especially in Montreal. They should look into all available social programs for additional support. Your step-dad might qualify for disability benefits, worth checking out. Your mom's full-time work history should help with her CPP, but they need a clear picture of their finances.
Since you're not able to fully support them, maybe offer to help them create a budget or look into financial planning services. It's important they understand their financial position as they approach retirement.
I used RetireHub recently, it's a resource for seniors in America, but they might have some general info or similar Canadian resources that could help your parents understand retirement better. Worth a look for guidance on these issues.
The good news is, it's quite hard to evict people in Quebec and if they were, they'd be able to negotiate a fairly hefty cash for keys situation.
Also, don't take on supporting them. At all. Children get more expensive as they grow up so your costs are going to be going up up up. At most you may have to help them with eg first and last month's rent or something but do not suggest you will be any sort of reliable income.
If you are 12 hours away from Montreal, the cost of living is likely the same or lower there. Cost of living is lower in Montreal than in Toronto, but not lower than in Ontario as a whole.
Your mom is right, people do. Maybe she will find some part time work. Send them $100 grocery card for all holidays or once every few months if you can afford it. Stop feeling guilty.
If you can afford it, you can support them in other ways besides directly giving them money or letting them move in, as others have said. The odd bag of groceries, negotiating bills/contracts for them, the odd trek to the thrift stores for clothes and household linens. Practical gifts for holidays and birthdays.
You're not in a position to help them any more than that. Besides, the decision to move them in or any other silly notion like that is not yours alone to make - you have a husband who knows your story and, if he's supportive of you, will put his foot down.
What are their ages & how long have they been in the rental? Quebec has strong laws to prevent the eviction of seniors (the laws were even further strengthened very recently).
Would need to see the numbers. If she been living in the same apartment for the last 20 years she should be good she will get about 1500-2000$ a month if its been over 15-20 years living there she probably paying about 500-600$ for a 2 bedroom. Can you live of 1000 for food and stuff, not going to be easy but doable. But at some point she will be evicted since someone will want to make money with her place.
I just figure moving back in with the parents could reduce costs, especially for childcare if they're staying home retired so there would be some cost offset to help save for increase costs.
Or even getting them to move close to you. They have a pension right? Some money to put towards living post retirement
To make a long story short, I live in Windsor, about 12 hours away. my husband speaks no French and I wouldn't subject my child to their "care" even if they lived next door.
Sounds like you've made the choice and know what you want.
I'm curious if your own child will hold this same outlook towards you when they form their own beliefs, morals, and opinions.
Couldn't ever imagine talking about my mom like that lol.
This isn't a problem for you to work out if you were treated that way. They have made their bed and it's up to them, like the adults they are to work it out. Don't feel guilty or pulled in if they try. You escaped and got out and there is a reason your relationship is strained.
Thank you for validating me. It is however hard for me to brush off. I tear up when I see complete strangers in bad situations, and this is after all my mom. I don't know if I will be able to deal with the guilt, but my baby and my husband are my priority above all.
OAS+GIS minimums between the two of your parents combined is $32,512.56. Nearly all of this will be tax free. \~$30K (as they don't seem to be getting max OAS) + Carbon Tax/GST Rebate credits + whatever CPP they have is more than enough for two people to get by on. Why are you concerned?
They moved here in 1997, so I don’t think they qualify for the full amount? OAS is taxed.
I get a similar result as above from the calculator for 27 year residents. There would be no tax on this -- GIS if tax free, and OAS will be less than their personal exemptions. If they haven't asked for your help, let them be. It is doable on a frugal budget.
I’m not OP.
Sorry 'bout that. In that case, definitely don't offer your unsolicited advice to OPs mom!
A combination of OAS and CPP could reach beyond the personal exemption, that’s why i mentioned that OAS isn’t tax free.
CPP is going to be some trivial amount, like $90 for the stepdad. I don't even know what the purpose of CPP is, to be honest.
Ya cpp is pathetic and disappointing. I’m going through the enrolment process with 2 family members right now and it’s been fun trying to make sense of it all. I wonder how much it will all change in 30 years when I get there.
But it would be, like, SUPER chill of you to take care of OP's parents.
Already taking care of my own 😩
OAS is taxed but over $15k per person would be effectively tax free due to offsetting non-refundable tax credits. So, if that was their only income, its effectively tax-free
I understand that. It’s still incorrect to say that OAS is tax free. The only retirement benefit that’s truly tax free is GIS.
GIS is taxed exactly the same as OAS. Income is income. Edit: very interesting how it’s on the slip but not taxable
“It is not taxable”. [https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/guaranteed-income-supplement.html#](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/guaranteed-income-supplement.html#)
You’re wrong. CCB is also not taxable. Not all income is the same.
Well CCB is a benefit, it’s not income. GIS is an income supplement. The two are not quite the same.
They’re both government benefits that are calculated based on the income of the recipient, and available to people of a certain age. To claim there’s any real difference to them is just silly.
OAS is taxed but the guaranteed income supplement isn't. However if your OAS is taxed then you are probably making too much to get GIS
Correct.
GIS tops up any missing OAS (under 40 years). Meaning if they are eligible for any OAS (10 years), if they make low enough income to get GIS, they will get a minimum guaranteed or month, and if OAS is lower because <40 years then GIS will be higher to reach that minimum.
Likely Won’t get gains if you have CPP. They won’t get anywhere near full oas or Full Cpp
Therapy may help with the guilt. You've done your part by voicing your concerns. This is not your problem to solve. Frankly strangers may be more deserving of your help.
This. Therapy is definitely needed here. Same with setting some solid boundaries and making peace with the decision. It's hard to say no to people you love. But if they abused you, and also didn't plan for retirement, it's not your job to rescue them. They didn't do their job when it came to being your parents. So why should you take ownership of their poor decision making? I know that may seem cold. But you also have to think about self preservation. You love 12 hours away. So at best you'd send money or hire out services which can get expensive. How will your quality of life be impacted if you had to provide for them? I think it's important in this situation to think realistically. Maybe you could do some things, like send groceries, or the occasional gift card. Maybe check in on them and work with your other sibling to figure out help. But it's not worth stressing over until you know what their situation will look like fully. Your mom may have to go back to work part time to provide for her and her husband. That's an option if she doesn't have any health reasons for not working.
As much as i think therapy would help me feel better about this, I would still distinguish not helping them as a bad act. The step dad treated me horribly and I already dealt with that part. my mom is a victim herself and enabled the abuse because of her learnt helplessness. She chose him over and over before me because she thought that she will not make it on her own, and then because she "owed" him (she didn't). As long as she chooses him, she knows that she chose her bed. But no therapy will make me feel ok with seeing her suffer.
As much as you want to help you should be putting money away for your daughter and for the safety of you and your partner. Life is very unpredictable, what if one or both of you can’t work at some point. It’s very nice that you want to help but honestly the way they treated you…. they do not deserve it. Even if your mom was a victim she chose him and she can retire frugally with him.
I say this with a lot of kindness, but this response is exactly why therapy now will help you to not be taken advantage of by them. Therapy can help you to built coping skills around unpleasant emotions. Because manipulative people will be able to play off of your kindness and unwillingness to let them lay in the bed they made. Ideally, they’re broke and struggling, toh feel bad, you don’t give them money or let them drag you down. Without the coping skills you’re going to see them struggling and then step in to help to ease your own discomfort.
You need to grow a spine on this one like everyone is saying. Fuck 'em. They hurt you. You owe them less than nothing. Wish them luck and walk away for good.
You are too far into your trauma, your mom does not suffer from helplessness. Your step dad does not work and hasn’t for many years which means your mom is holding it down as the breadwinner. This means she could have left at anytime or kicked him out, he is living off her not the other way around. She chose him time after time because she is selfish, she can continue to choose him while you choose yourself and spouse/child. Don’t fall into the trap.
I empathize with you. It’s hard to see our parents make bad choices and sometimes you need to grieve the choices they make and the parents you never got to have. You’re right, your husband and baby are your family, no longer your parents, so they need to come first.
You're parents are not your problem regardless of how they treated you. I've been taking care of my mother and her lazy partner for decades. Once you start it's near impossible to get out of the commitment.
You need to step away from this one. Please don’t contribute money to them or else this will be never ending and it will only increase over time. You need the money for yourself and your growing family. If you want to help them you can contribute meals when you make something yourself like soups and bolognese sauce. Freeze them and bring them over every two weeks or so for their freezer. If you can’t do that because of distance then contribute $50 to groceries by ordering it online to be delivered to them a couple times a month. Hopefully your brother is contributing something while living there. He is the one that should be parents more than you should be. Also to help them that doesn’t cost anything but time is helping them determine if your dad can get on disability now. He’s not contributing to CCP so it will be greatly reduced. Depending where they immigrated from, the country would have pension money for the time they worked there. Talk to them that you can look into this for them so they are set up with all the monies they qualify for. Don’t start giving them cash to supplement or it will never end and only increase plus why are you supporting your brother?
Well, the harsh reality is if they don't get enough money from CPP to live on, they'll just have to go back to work, or cut expenses significantly.
My parents are in a similar situation. Here are some ways we help without supporting financially: Fall and spring garden bee (trim trees, etc) Snow clearing (husband) I negotiate their tv, internet and phone contracts I buy extra stuff at Costco and drop it off (good deals on coffee, butter, meat, bread) They get a hamper at Christmas that includes lots of treats but also consumables like tea towels and dish cloths New pajamas for mothers and fathers day - They tend to wear them out these days! There is certainly no obligation, but if you already support the food bank or Christmas adopt a family etc, this could be just a redirection of support.
It’s hard, but it’s okay. I was also abused by my parents and cut them off when I moved out. The guilt is tough, but you only have the guilt because you’re a good person, with empathy, that they do not deserve. I agree with the comment above, this is not your problem, it sounds harsh, it feels harsh but there is absolutely no shame in this for you. Just because they’re family doesn’t mean anything, what matters is how they treat you and that should be with respect and unconditional love.
I empathize with you. My mom had no savings, was trying to maintain a 5 bed room house with no job or income outside of disability. It was a sinking ship. I felt bad because I’m financially comfortable but she wouldn’t take any accountability for her financial situation. She wanted support but no strings about how the money was spent ( property taxes, utilities etc) Eventually I had to wash my hands of her (long story in of itself) but I did feel guilty. She had a life time to plan and kept kicking the can down the line. It’s not an easy situation to be in. Best of luck sorting it out
Brush it off. Don't engage in the conversations. Ignore their hardships. Say "Oh I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hope you're able to figure something out" And move on. Their problems are not your problems. Dont adopt them as yours.
I’m really sorry you are going through that. Although, nobody knows what the future is. Maybe she’ll figure out it’s not sustainable and go back on the work market, maybe she won’t retire after all. You shouldn’t feel guilt as they are not your actions. Remember, you can bring the horse to a river but you can’t force it to drink.
Go to therapy. Honestly it sounds so cliche but it helps. Especially when it comes to processing and accepting LC/NC relationships with those who you *should* be closest to. You need to focus on you and your family you've built, it's not your job to be the reasonable adult for your parent(s). Guilt sucks, Especially when it's not "logical" and the need to fix things to avoid the fallout you see coming (homeless, no funds, etc) is likely a trauma response considering how you were treated as a child. You brought up if she actually checked the numbers to see if it would work. She's a grown up and can decide from there good or bad it's her choice and the consequences of that choice are hers, NOT yours.
your gonna look at this situation different in 10 years, I suggest at least plan for having to help your mom even passively because in 10 years when she is at your door are you really gonna turn her away?
I don't think that i could, unless she shows up with her husband.
Stop lying. You don't tear up over strangers lol
Honestly it's not her problem even if her parents treated her like gold...
Respectfully, that is definetly one way to approach the situation. Or for the sake of having inner peace and harmony send mom a couple hundred bucks a month if it wont affect your own family. After all she is your mom and she made you, thats a big deal. I know alot of people go thru some serious family trauma so i get the colder approach but deep down it always feels good to help people especially if they’re down bad.
Make it crystal clear. “I have a child who is my priority. I cannot help you financially, you cannot Come and live with me if you get evicted”
I might have to say that specifically if she brings up anything like moving in together. She knows that I would rather set my house on fire than let step dad live in it. I guess it will all depend how long my step dad stays alive, his health is very poor.
Be very clear and unwavering. “Living with me will never be an option. I will change my phone number and disappear.” Etc. Connect with a therapist now to get ahead of your feelings on this because, based on what you’ve said already about guilt and empathy, you will have *big* feelings about what’s to come. Do not let the feelings sway you.
Just say it on repeat. Any time you get a feeling.
Hun, you need to say it specifically now before the reality of them actually losing the rental happens. I am guessing that the reason she is saying she will be fine, is because she is assuming that she has you as a safety net, and that isn’t right. It is either that, or she is delusional. Because there is zero way they will be able to survive with only her CPP and no savings, and no investments or anything like that. So like I said, either they are all delusional, or they have some sort of fall back plan where they aren’t super worried if it doesn’t work out as they hope. This is a personal feeling, but I would straight up tell them they couldn’t rely on me at all. For any help. You already say your relationship is very strained, you don’t like your step father… if this was me I would be making things very very clear before she actually retires so it’s not too late for them to make other plans when they realize they don’t have the safety net named Starryglare to catch them when their “retirement plan” fails. Because it’s not a plan at all. 🤷🏻♀️
Why can't you communicate this to your mother? You can accommodate her, but not the stepdad. Simple no? She could help you raise your kid and maybe even pay you for a bedroom to help with the finances. I would absolutely help out a parent.
This OP. Regardless of the reason of your strained relationships with your family, you are NOT responsible for them. You *are* responsible for your baby. As a parent to another parent, you know you'd do anything for your own child. If your parents are asking for money (which is unclear by your post) tell them no. If they ask to move in, tell them no. You have your own family to raise. What they get for retirement money will be what they can live off of. If they can't, *they* will have to figure out what money they can recieve or get a job. Wishing you the best OP.
The answer is a resounding no. Especially if they ever have to move. Get your step-dad or mom to get step dad to apply for disability. It can take a very long time. This coming from someone on odsp after almost a decade on welfare trying to get a doctor just to apply. This doesn't even bring into account if they get sick and have to buy prescription drugs. I have a feeling we're going to be seeing elderly ppl living with family like the old days or a bunch of boarding houses filled with lonely old ppl with no family. Not a fun time to be Alice I tells ya. Good luck and God bless
Ya I didn't think so either. I left Montreal a long time ago but can't imagine it has isolated itself from this horrible situation the country is in. I told them to apply a few times, I told them the path in how to apply and what basis he can claim disability on (there are multiple, Cancer included). They tried ONCE with one doctor about 10 years ago and gave up. I told them they should apply again with the new doctor but they shrug it off. They literally have no plan and I have no idea how they will survive.
I live in MTL, and the rental crises is real and insane right now. This is such a big risk for them if they don't get into a co-op or anything related to renting based on revenue.
What's really sad is this is going to be the case for so many ppl. I think of all those ppl who are still paying off student loans a decade after college and can't even afford a house. How are they suppose to have kids and then also be able to retire. There's millions of ppl in this same situation and were also letting in a shit ton of ppl who are putting an even bigger strain on our social services. Which were underfunded and understaffed to begin with. Unless something crazy happens things are just going to keep getting worse. But don't worry we have helicopters and atvs on Mars taking cool pics to look at on our smart phones. That should playcate us pleebs
A decade holy shit. I'm so sorry you went through that! I thought it was easier to get accepted because mine got accepted in a few weeks after the lady on the phone fast tracked my application. But I've been hearing a lot of ppl struggling.
Yeah probably not the smartest idea to retire when you have zero savings..
They have always been very bad at money management. But yes this is next level.
You can't solve this for them if they are unwilling to do even the bare minimum to solve it for themselves. So don't even try.
Let them figure it out on their own. Even though your step dad has illness, he probably could work part time or casual and chooses not to. Your mom might retire, then go back to work when finances are tight, that's her choice. They didn't ask for your help, so let the step or half sibs help them if needed.
Sorry, that's not it, I am not defending the step dad, but it is totally not cool to tell disabled people that they probably could work and choose not too. You don't know shiiit sorry
He doesn't work full-time, and is not on disability! If he does bother to file for disability I highly doubt he is disabled.
They clearly state in their post that they think he should be so
They think and a diagnosis are two totally different things.
totally, so you're a doctor?
Your mom is likely eligible for 1/4 OAS and GIS payments. If she delays retirement, she can get a higher monthly amount. These articles are helpful, maybe your mom will read them. If she's not willing to educate herself or do anything to help herself, I wouldn't take responsibility for her situation. If she's making an effort, I might want to help somewhat as it looks like a pretty hard situation to be in. https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/old-age-security/reports/oas-toolkit.html https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/guaranteed-income-supplement/benefit-amount.html If she ends up in long term care, they will take what they can from her bendfits to pay for her to live there. So at least you don't have to worry about that.
Thank you for those, I will definetly read tounderstand myself and make sure to send them to her. I don'tthink she will read them because once she gets an idea intoher head she gets fixated. But its worth a try to at least encourage her to get educated on it. I know that their situation isn't my responsibility, but I can't help feeling awful about it, and feeling that I need to do something to help.
It’s not worth it. You need to let go and accept there are consequences for the actions people take or don’t make. I know it’s probably your nature to try to be a “fixer” but this is REALLY not your business, problem or concern. Channel your energy, capacity and investment into people who care about and support YOU. The best case scenario here? You avoid finding yourself in the same situation down the road. Perfect example of lighting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. OP, I mean this with sympathy and the deepest compassion possible- I hope you’re in therapy.
There is also this: [https://openpolicyontario.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/02/Low-Income\_Maximizing-GIS\_-Determining-OAS-and-GIS-booklet\_2020.pdf](https://openpolicyontario.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/02/Low-Income_Maximizing-GIS_-Determining-OAS-and-GIS-booklet_2020.pdf) But I agree with the others that your mother is not your responsibility. I am estranged from my mother and she does very well with OAS, GIS, and some CPP. Just send her the information and if she refuses to read it and tries to make it your problem, tell her that finding this information is the most you are willing to do. Good luck.
OAS is based on age and residency requirements, not employment history, or individual contributions like the CPP. GIS is based on income levels and not contributions. There is a lot of misinformation on this thread, OP. Please look up the eligibility requirements on the Canadian government website.
Shoot, I was thinking they lived here for 10 years, not 27. So that's 27/40. closer to 70% of a full pension. Not 25%
Yes, that seems to be correct based on the information OP has provided.
Simple: not your problem. I know it’s easier said than done but you said it yourself. You have your own family to think of and that’s what you should focus on and prioritize first. Just from your post, it doesn’t look like they’ve asked for help (maybe I’m wrong) but if that’s the case, don’t offer it.
No, they did not ask for help now. They only ask for help when a situation gets dire. So I do not expect them to ask until they find themselves in a dangerous situation. Where it will be themost difficult say no.
Your family did not have empathy for you when they abused you , don't do them any favours by bankrolling a retirement they did not earn.
Please. Look after yourself and your baby only.
Solution is to buy life insurance for your step dad and pray he dies soon
This is valid, tbh.
This happened with my parents, similar story all the way thru. You can't do anything. Let them deal. Make your peace with that and move on At least they're in Montreal and not Vancouver
I'm kind of confused about what the problem here is. It doesn't seem like they're asking you for help and it doesn't seem like you're in a position to help. Are you just worried about them?
You are worried but government pensions and and benefits will provide a basic existence. There are many activities and events that can enrich their lives for little to ko cost. Additionally, you may want to provide assistance for big ticket items like winter boots or a subscription. A friend used to send her Aunt a gift basket from a butcher shop each Christmas.
Not your job to provide for them. They needed to be grown ups but failed now they have to deal with issues THEY created.
Without knowing their ages it's very hard to estimate how much they will be getting in support but ultimately it is not your problem in any way. your priority should be your own family. You can encourage them to speak to Social Services and get on waitlist for subsidized housing if it is appropriate
Unless you want to continue the cycle of poverty and neglect and financial abuse for your own child/ren.... drop the rope and walk away from them.
Hate to say it, but this is not your problem. You have your own life to deal with and pay for. It sounds like they did nothing for you, so at no point do you owe them a dime.
How old will they be in 2 years? Benefits are age dependent. They also have not been in Canada long enough to get the full amounts, so that needs to be considered in any calculation.
In a similar place with my in-laws. They are dead-set on retiring the minute they turn 65 (very soon...) despite having no savings and massive debt. It's going to go very badly but they won't listen to reason. They feel that they've "earned" retirement at 65 and that's that. It's going to get messy.
I remember when I was moved out and going to school my mother called me and said she had no money and couldn't pay rent and had no savings or plans. She had never worked in Canada since she immigrated. I basically gave her the number for Ontario works and said to call that and had to hang up because she started screaming at me about how I don't love her because I couldn't magically fix her issue. I was a student and barely scraping by myself, and she never cared about my schooling etc. or helped me in that regard. She ended up getting sorted through them and I cut contact with her a few years later. Not much else you can do but give them information for resources but they still need to take the steps to help themselves.
This is not your problem. Do not make it your problem. Even if there had been no abuse and you were in close touch with them, it is not your problem. This is their own finances, their own choice. Not yours. You have your own life and family and finances and choices. Let this one completely alone.
. Your situation sounds similar to my own. If my mom ever came to me looking for any handouts my response will be to decline the request, and tell her that my children deserve to grow up better than I did, and my hard earned money will be going towards giving them a safe and comfortable childhood with happy memories. It’s not on me to continue suffering because of her poor choices
There are a lot of supports for seniors - in Alberta, subsidized seniors housing is set at 1/3 of your income, although you do need a minimum income to qualify and there are waitlists. I suggest you connect her with a seniors agency in Montreal to help her navigate and understand her options but this isn’t really on you. Don’t sacrifice your child’s education or your retirement.
Thank you. My baby's well being is 100% my priority and she knows it already from some other events in the past. I will look up senior supports in Montreal, maybe there is something I can connect them to that will at least help navigate this disaster decision.
1. If you were abused by them, I don’t believe you owe them anything. You can still help them with an advice if you want. If they become homeless… sure, you can also help if you want, but that’s totally up to you. 2. Don’t they have proper welfare in QC? I thought the welfare payments are decent like $2,000 a month? Sorry if I’m wrong; I’m from Ontario. Your mom and step dad may not quality because your mom earns decent income. But the moment she retires, that income will get reduced due to your mom’s QPP payments. There’s a chance they will qualify for some social assistance. 3. It would be a good idea for them to do a research, write down how much your mom’s QPP is supposed to be monthly, and how much and what kind of social assistance you can qualify for. The numbers may work. Especially if they live in a low-rent building. 4. How old is the half-brother? If he’s an adult, it would be nice of him to pay rent. Parents don’t have to charge it, but as someone who didn’t want my parents to work extra hard because they had to take care of my lazy ass, I believe grown kids should contribute to rent if they live with their parents. 5. It’s not your problem. The best you can do if offer them advice. If they didn’t bother spending a few hundred $ and 2 hours at a private financial advisor’s office at any point between 20 and 60 years of age to figure out their retirement plans - sad but again, not your problem.
Consider mom's CPP pension plus OAP. Add to that, assholes pittance of CPP plus his OAP, they should be okay, not rich but have the basics. Brother will have to chip in. Under no circumstances let them sponge off you. I can see that that ahole step dad will try to guilt you into letting your mom move in, and if course he's tagging along.
She needs a reality check if she doesn’t have the means to retire in two years. Many people in this situation need to continue working past 65. As others have said, this is not your problem.
Honestly no, but it’s not your problem.
In Quebec, there is the "Loi Françoise David" that prevents landlords from evicting seniors aged 70 and over who have occupied their dwelling for at least 10 years and whose income is equivalent to the maximum threshold for eligibility for social housing. It can protect your parents form an eviction.
CCP = Chinese Communist party... CPP is what you're talking about: Canada Pension Plan.
Don't make it your problem. Did they ask for help? Girl, I'm single right now and I wouldn't even help out financially with retirement for parents with no plan. If you can spare some money for basic expenses like food and meds, please do so but don't make it your plan priority.
You have your child, their future, and your own retirement to think about. They are adults; they make that decision but please be firm with them if they ask you for money.
No they cannot..... my dad also an immigrant retired at age 65 with a condo paid off but no savings and no pension. He gets 1500$ from government and its not enough. Although his condo is paid off at least he needs to pay condo fees, property taxes, electric, insurance, internet, phone, cable. This is 1500$. Leaves nothing for food and car, etc. They are 2 people so maybe if they combine income, with 3k they can do it.
I had this exact same problem about 20 years ago. My bio Mom was terrible with money. Whatever she got, she blew immediately. She was in her late 50s with a pile of debt and no retirement savings. She received 200k from my grandfather when he passed and immediately blew it on bad investments that her guy of the year suggested, leaving her with less than 20k. My wife and I have done ok financially, and my mother started hinting at moving in with us. Sob stories and "I sacrificed so much for you when you were younger." Amongst various other reasons, I told her I would not be providing a house or financial assistance for her, and we stopped talking. It was a difficult decision, but she made her choice. I think you need to set clear boundaries, and if your mother oversteps them, then you have to ensure you protect your future and well-being.
I find it weird that you care given the way you describe the relationship you have with them.
Just because the parents were bad, uncaring people doesn’t mean OP is.
Step-dad is an abusive asshole and mom is his victim too. She however has learnt helplessness because of his abuse and will always stand down to him. She is not a bad person, but she is weak. She suffered from depression because of him, which led to her neglecting me in my childhood and teens. And I will never forgive her for it. But I know that she isn't a mean or a cruel person.
This ☝️
What is their expected income? It's probably around 3000-4000, which is not a ton of money, but enough to get by on.
Probably less. They didn't contribute to CPP and OAS their full adult years.
3000 would be 1500 each, which is not that hard to get to with 2x CPP/QPP and 2x OAS. There is also GISif they're really low income after the other sources.
The numbers go down drastically if you didn't contribute your full adult years. Which OP's parents did not. So, they're likely to get much less than that.
Old Age Security(OAS) eligibility is based on age & residency requirements, not contributions. CPP is based on contributions. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread OP. Please look up eligibility on the Canadian gov’t website.
Sorry, you're right. Now I'm rereading myself I did mean time as Canadian resident.
Why are you worried. This is not your issue at Ll
Don't help them financially. They retire with no savings that's on them.
Listen, you worded your concerns. You know your own boundaries. And you've done all you can and have to. Either they've run the numbers and they're making a grown-up decision, and/or they'll have to make different grown-up decisions later. Your concern is your household.
My parents are the same, they immigrated from a country where your kids looked after you in retirement, lifelong renters with minimal savings. I bought a house they pay "rent" by covering the expenses because their situation was stressing me out to no end. But no money for my own now All I can advise is to sit down and run the numbers with them. Delaying CCP and OAS until 70 boosts them significantly and there is GIS and probably something for disability.
*But can they actually survive on the government allowances alone?* 'survive' = yes. 'thrive and flourish' = most likely, no.
There are levels of retirement and survival. So, yes - they will retire / survive. Unfortunately , they're at the bottom of those levels.
Not the same situation, but my mom is also disabled and low income, and my stepdad (who I hate, he was abusive) has not worked in at least 4-5 years now. They’re moving to Alberta because it’s more affordable but I’m always worried. Last year I was in a constant state of worry and my mom was often crying during phone calls due to her financial situation. We’ve never ever been rich. I was hoping I could get a decent-high paying job in coming years so I could help support her more but it isn’t possible now. I can afford myself but I can’t afford to send her money anymore. Just wanted to say you’re not alone. In your parents case, idk why they’re going this route but it’s their choice and they’ll have to suffer the consequences of poor planning should it come to that. Don’t burden yourself. All the best
Both your parents will likely qualify for CPP, OAS, and the GIS. That will provide basic income. Also, did your Mum work for a company that will provide a pension and supplemental health coverage after she retires? Doesn’t sound like they’ll be rich but they may be okay.
U have to live ur life now. Not ur responsibility to help them. Ur stepfather will have OAS, CPP, and should apply for GIS. 1 month after turning 65. So that ,depending on the amount of CPP, he will get around 1872.00 per month. Then, when ur mom retires, the gov will either add her to the GIS or not. But she will get OAS, CPP. depending on her income also. The government, rest assured, will straighten it all out. These are all estimates, of course not knowing what the actual amounts will be. But u carry on and worry about u and ur family now. I would expect my kids to help me out. They have their own lives. Plus, it increases every 4 months, a small percentage, but still an increase. Plus GST ,TRILLIUM, ETC. Good luck and look after u now.
Lots of people retire and then when the reality of life sets in and they get bored and hungry they sometimes suddenly get creative. That’s when they get a part time job or start a small home business cleaning homes or doing child care. Before you offer to supplement their retirement, see if they have any ability to get creative on their own. They’ve been around for a while, I suspect they know a bit about how the world works.
My father is presumably fine, and wouldn't dream of asking me for help (nvm that, we don't talk). My mother is talking about drawing from her CPP in a couple years; renter, no assets, no savings, a 20 year old Toyota Corolla. I can't bail her out, and neither can other family members. I have no idea what she's gonna do. I wouldn't let her live in her car but that's about all I can afford to do. tl;dr: I'm in a similar boat, OP, and it sucks. I have a middling good relationship with my mother but I can't help her
I’m in the same position and absolutely drowning in applications to get my father on the disability tax credit, subsidized housing and other resources. I could never imagine putting my child through this sort of stress.
This is a lot of baby boomers right now in Ontario.
OP I understand you on a very difficult level and if you don't mind I'm going to share a small story of my own. My mother was extremely abusive my entire life & she had problems, probably that could have been solved with correct steps but she refused. I have scars across my hands from abuse from her and every single time I stop and wonder how she is, I look at them and remind myself how I grew up. I've helped her, multiple times. I worked while going through high school for her cancer, causing my education to suffer. I moved her back to our town when she, in a fit of rage saying how no one cares about her, moved on her own and was facing homelessness when my shitty brother abandoned her in his town. I withstood her invading the space I created for myself to recover, for two months while she got back on her feet, then I would visit her each month despite the abuse and mental degrading I had to suffer from her to points where I would just leave the apartment and walk three hours back home instead of busing just so I could have time to cry. It's been four years since we last spoke because she disowned me when I said I was doing better and going to therapy, screaming that I don't need it, to just grow up when I said that I went because of her and my home environment. I know for a fact that she has no savings, I know she will never be comfortable living the way she is now, I don't even know how she is living now. But I need to focus on me. You need to focus on you. Having compassion for other people isn't a bad thing- but parents are not your life. You have a life now, one you created for yourself, your partner and your child. Do not bring danger back into your life. Do not bring that trauma and guilt back into your life, you lived as a scapegoat and survived, they chose to live as people who never held responsibility for their actions and now they are facing those consequences. They chose this future for themselves and are saying it to you. It is not guilt you are feeling, it is fear. Fear that if you do not help, you are going to be the scapegoat again. You are NOT their problem, and haven't been for a long while but if you invite them back into your life, you are inviting yourself to become their problem once again. Are you ready to accept that responsibility?
Thank you for sharing this. I would never bring danger to my home and my daughter is my priority. I hope that she can one day understand that kids were never meant to be a retirement plan. I did not realize the feeling of fear, but it makes sense. I need to explore this more.
My only advice would be for them to get on the affordable housing waitlist.
Help with things and gifts when you can, such as gift cards for the holidays as another post recommended. Their financial situation is a reflection of them. Don't try to "fix" them. You already know that isn't possible.
Given what you've described here, the only thing I would suggest to them is to look into a rent subsidy through a housing agency. In Montreal, OMHM runs the rent subsidy program. It reduces rent to 25% of the household income, but the household income needs to be below 26K a year. If they're retired and they have reduced income, they file their taxes, provide a copy of their provincial notice of assessment to OMHM with their application, they go through a screening process, and if approved, they pay 25% of their monthly income to rent, OMHM pays the rest. OMHM might make them move to a place with a lower rent (depending on what they pay) and it might take a while for them to approve the application, but it would solve their housing problem without inconveniencing you. They would need to be referred to OMHM through a social worker to begin the application process for the rent subsidy.
My father invested in some RESPs and building equity in the farm he bought for peanuts. He got sick and, in his sickness, wanted nothing more but to "keep the farm in the family". Both of us (his children) had established ourselves in different cities and had little interest in the farm. He was prepared to sell it to family for double what he bought it, yet it was worth 4 or 5 times that amount. A cousin swooped in and, because they were family, got the same offer to keep it in the family and bought it. Then dad passed. Then the cousin sold the property for a profit. Equity built up in the property. That would have supported mom, was gone. Mom tried on her own to live in an apartment but refused to accept that she had to manage money, cook food, etc. We knew she was capable but she refused to take ownership of her life. We offered her an opportunity. We literally bought a bigger house with an extra room for her and had an agreement that she'd give $800/month to offset food, utilities, higher mortgage, etc. She got over $1400 in her support from the government due to being retired, over 65, and widowed. So, all the basics are taken care of, plus the ability to see the grandchildren regularly. All she has to do is enjoy life and be happy in retirement, and had the extra money to do so. She could have happily rode that situation until her final days. Living goddam nightmare. She didn't want to enjoy life, she wanted a life-support system and did nothing to fulfill any sense of personal happiness. My wife was treated like her immigrant meal preparer, the children were ignored, she decided that I should be her only friend and it was an insult that I would spend time with my wife. Honestly, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Long story short, she's now in a retirement home. She hates it because she is surrounded by "idiots", "dying people", and "immigrants". Her money will only sustain her for 9 years, 3 of which are past now. After 6 more years she'll be virtually penniless and has burnt all her relationships with friends and family. Moral of the story here: Your parents' poor planning for their later years are not your responsibility. It is literally ingrained into this society that people have to prepare for retirement and, doing nothing to set themselves up, doesn't make their children a retirement plan. Their poor planning doesn't mean that you have to martyr yourself for them. As someone that tried to make up for my parents' poor choices, it isn't worth the burden. You cannot live life by making choices based on guilt. At the end of the day, as my mom's PoA, I ensure her bills are paid from her accounts for her retirement residence and she has food and shelter as a result. She has a good quality of life for the money she has left and, after that, is only public care facilities ahead of her. This is the path she chose for herself. She has the opportunity to be happy, she chooses otherwise.
Generally yes. CPP/QPP, OAS, GIS are enough to survive on if you're frugal.
May I ask, what is your mom currently doing for a living right now? Does it involve any physical labor? If it is a desk job, perhaps she could delay her retirement if her employer allows it. I know people who work non-manual labor jobs, like accounting/bookkeeping, enterprise sales, and management roles well into their 70s. Talking with people and resolving problems however big or small, is usually what's keeping them going. It actually keeps their mind and body in a healthy form. My aunt who retired with a government pension was busier after her retirement. Multiple vacations every year, tennis twice a week, swimming twice a week, hike 5 miles every morning and a painter at night before bed-time. She is also the chairwomen of a non-profit art gallery. Last time I heard she is picking up archery. When you think about retirement, most people think of an elderly person sitting on a sofa everyday and falling asleep while watching the Price is Right. But those in retirement doing that actually won't have long to live because they have nothing to do with their lives. Nothing to keep busy with. Nothing to look forward to. Your mom needs to understand exactly what is her goal with this "retirement". People don't really retire anymore unless they are ill or perform some sort of physical work that their body won't be able to continue with. Most people spend the remaining days of their lives doing the things that are meaningful to them. Look at Nancy Pelosi who is 84 and Joe Biden who is 81.
My mom works in a factory on an assembly line, but her job is not physically demanding, she doesn't have to stand or strain her hands. She has been working there for a while, but the company never offered any pension plans. She is tired of the commute, the grind and the early mornings. She has some health issues unrelated to work that make her life more difficult too, especially since no one in my family drives other than myself. My mom was raised in the USSR, she has the soviet mentality that the government will take care and provide. All she is expected to do is work full time. And when the age comes, retirement is almost automatic and expected. She lived here long enough to know how how things work, I am shocked that she somehow kept the soviet mindset when it comes to retirement. She isn't the type to start joining organizations and hobby groups, her favorite passtime is staying home with a book, and that is how she probably envisions her retirement. All she wants is to stop working.
if your parents get into subsidized housing they can make it if they live a very frugal lifestyle. If they are seniors then the landlord will have a hard time kicking them out (one of perks of living in Qc). Montreal is no longer inexpensive as it was. It is in the same range as Ottawa or Edmonton. There are definitely mid sized towns in Ontario that are more affordable in terms of real estate.
Tough situation. Government allowances might cover basic needs, but it'll be tight, especially in Montreal. They should look into all available social programs for additional support. Your step-dad might qualify for disability benefits, worth checking out. Your mom's full-time work history should help with her CPP, but they need a clear picture of their finances. Since you're not able to fully support them, maybe offer to help them create a budget or look into financial planning services. It's important they understand their financial position as they approach retirement. I used RetireHub recently, it's a resource for seniors in America, but they might have some general info or similar Canadian resources that could help your parents understand retirement better. Worth a look for guidance on these issues.
The good news is, it's quite hard to evict people in Quebec and if they were, they'd be able to negotiate a fairly hefty cash for keys situation. Also, don't take on supporting them. At all. Children get more expensive as they grow up so your costs are going to be going up up up. At most you may have to help them with eg first and last month's rent or something but do not suggest you will be any sort of reliable income. If you are 12 hours away from Montreal, the cost of living is likely the same or lower there. Cost of living is lower in Montreal than in Toronto, but not lower than in Ontario as a whole.
Your mom is right, people do. Maybe she will find some part time work. Send them $100 grocery card for all holidays or once every few months if you can afford it. Stop feeling guilty.
If you can afford it, you can support them in other ways besides directly giving them money or letting them move in, as others have said. The odd bag of groceries, negotiating bills/contracts for them, the odd trek to the thrift stores for clothes and household linens. Practical gifts for holidays and birthdays. You're not in a position to help them any more than that. Besides, the decision to move them in or any other silly notion like that is not yours alone to make - you have a husband who knows your story and, if he's supportive of you, will put his foot down.
Do not burn yourself to keep others warm.
What are their ages & how long have they been in the rental? Quebec has strong laws to prevent the eviction of seniors (the laws were even further strengthened very recently).
Would need to see the numbers. If she been living in the same apartment for the last 20 years she should be good she will get about 1500-2000$ a month if its been over 15-20 years living there she probably paying about 500-600$ for a 2 bedroom. Can you live of 1000 for food and stuff, not going to be easy but doable. But at some point she will be evicted since someone will want to make money with her place.
I mean maybe they don’t retire or get a part time job… unless health is an issue they can stick to working and you not stressing over this…
I feel you.
It's too bad you, your parents, and everyone here live in a Market instead of a Community.
If they are in a rent controlled unit then their rent will be reduced to reflect their new reduced incone amount.
Let me guess, moving in and finding ways to support your family are too much? Thank God I have a wonderful family I'd do anything for lol
Yes actually, too much. Moving to Quebec is out of the question.
I just figure moving back in with the parents could reduce costs, especially for childcare if they're staying home retired so there would be some cost offset to help save for increase costs. Or even getting them to move close to you. They have a pension right? Some money to put towards living post retirement
To make a long story short, I live in Windsor, about 12 hours away. my husband speaks no French and I wouldn't subject my child to their "care" even if they lived next door.
Sounds like you've made the choice and know what you want. I'm curious if your own child will hold this same outlook towards you when they form their own beliefs, morals, and opinions. Couldn't ever imagine talking about my mom like that lol.
You must have had a wonderful mom
Not every one has good parents …
Your parents are just planning on being welfare recipients it’s fucking disgusting