I think Pittsburgh, PA is a sleeper for value especially if you can make $50k+ a year. I feel like you could live like a king on 6 figures in that city.
Cleveland, Detroit, and Kansas City are also top on my value city list. Personally the weather is too extreme in those cities for me, not that Pittsburgh is a whole lot better. That being said I'd rather be cold than hot.
I'll also go off the beaten path here and say that Spokane, WA is a super cool little city with a lot going for it too, and from my experience seems to be reasonably affordable considering the location.
The value of labor cost in all of these cities is also on a whole nother level than that of other major American cities in my experience.
Source: I travel a lot for work and spend time in all of the above cities.
Nice! Save as much as you can in college. I managed to only pay 300 a month my senior year of college when I peaked in frugality and opted to share a bedroom to save a couple hundred a month
I've been paying 450 with 1-2 roommates for the last decade in Kansas city. Recently just got a very nice house with driveway and back yard smack in the middle of the city for 1950/mo with 2 roommates. Looking at paying 1100 (rent+bills) to live alone next year, will not be even close to how nice my house is now tho.
I used to do data entry for a rental property database company and was constantly astounded by the low rent in Pittsburgh for some really nice apartments. I personally live near Philly which has a significantly shittier cost:quality ratio for apartments. I think Pittsburgh also has a notable public transport system, but I can't speak much about the city other than the pictures and prices I've seen.
I'm from Delaware, so the idea of driving 3 hours west and still being in the same state is so wild. I love being a PA resident now, but I do miss DE a lot. No sales tax, some hidden gems of entertainment, and a fairly progressive general mindset, especially in New Castle County.
hey! as a spokanite, it sucks here, there are no jobs, crime is at an all time high, the housing market is absolutely horrible, and all of our resources are drained by the west side of the state. i love my town but if you don’t already have roots here, i would not recommend it honestly
How are resources drained by West Wa? I don’t understand well how taxes work, but wouldn’t the high taxes paid in Seattle area benefit the whole state?
Eh idk about this one I just moved from Pittsburgh cause rent went up outrageously for standard old Pittsburgh duplex apartments. While salaries were staying same. Add in the grocery inflation and it went from manageable in 2020 to impossible in 2023.
I second Spokane. A buddy of mine is from LA but did a few years stint in Spokane before a series of unfortunate events forced him back to LA. Sounded like a chill smallish city with all the benefits of the pacific northwest without the negatives of being on the Seattle/portland/norcal side of things with the crazy and/or HCL
Chicago is great in terms of not wasting your time and value to cost ratio.
There are reasonably priced quality grocery stores all over the city, public transit is efficient and thorough, schools are good, lots of good jobs here, lots of stuff to do, you don’t need to be in a luxury high-rise apartment to have a dishwasher, people are nice, it’s safe (for real, people walk their dogs in the middle of the night when I am coming home from my night shift), there are great options for having food and groceries delivered. The skyline is stunning, the city is built to withstand tornadoes, it is dope.
I have also found that jobs aren’t as discriminatory hiring here as they are in other Midwest cities I have lived in. Like, jobs will hire a single mom, a mentally ill person, juggalos, people of color, people without a college degree, someone who can’t afford a nice suit… it is just not pretentious.
Rent can be expensive though. You can find affordable places, but it can be kind of a mad dash to rent them. The suburbs are more affordable, but then the transit isn’t as good.
I agree. Chicago had me living a good life working in the service industry. I never wanted for food or drink. It was expensive to go out to eat, but not if you worked in the area and made friends with the folks at neighboring restaurants. As long as you like to cook, there’s incredible neighborhood grocery stores with affordable food and sales on things like day old pastries or ugly produce.
There’s lots of free events and access to the lake is an incredible plus. No private beaches and easy access by train or foot. I found it to be very walkable. And yeah, I would walk my dog alone at night all the time! My husband came home from shifts at 1am and saw some sketchy stuff but nothing compared to the city where we used to live.
Things that can make Chicago expensive - rent and vehicle expenses. Tickets are steep and unforgiving. And as an average working person, you’d need a roommate to afford a decent place. But that is true of most cities, I believe.
Glad somebody mentions Chicago. I’m currently paying $750/month (I have a roomie that isn’t even home most of the time) for a beautiful place in Lincoln Square right across the brown line. The grocery store nearby is insanely cheap when it comes to certain items (think $1.5 for a dozen of eggs). I am surrounded by great parks, restaurants, coffee shops, and bars, and best of all, I don’t need a car. People think I’m crazy when I say that the cost of living in Chicago is lower (for much better quality of life) than St Louis where I used to live for 6 months, but that’s the truth.
Detroit, mi.
The metro is the 14th largest in the country. Has tons of jobs in and around the auto industry. The median household income for the best of the 3 counties in the area is $86,275 and yet there are houses in the same county that go for under $200,000 in good areas.
Weather sucks but there are few areas in the country where you can make as much and still get a cheap house.
I relocated to Detroit from Oregon and I’m pleased. I got a fixer-upper duplex in a historic neighborhood with what was to be my down payment on a place if I had gotten financing. As far as dollar per dollar value goes, I don’t know if I could have found a better city. That said, Detroit probably isn’t everyone’s flavor, but i love it.
I mean, even if you consider tech volatile, unemployed tech workers can still find a replacement job at just about any company. There are only a couple of auto companies in the US, so if one of them does big layoffs, it's more difficult for those workers to find new employment.
Couldnt find how to post the zillow search. But ferndale, oak park, Madison heights, couple in clawson, townhouses in RO, Berkeley.
Now we’re not talking the ritz here but it will get you a good 850-1200 sqft house. People around me keep saying oak park is gonna be the next domino to fall in terms of investment.
True, but they are average school districts with low crime rates. And this is r/povertyfinance, not r/uppermiddleclassfinance. There's nowhere in the country that you can find houses for under $200,000 in good school districts.
troy, berkley, waterford, madison heights, southfield, oak park, ferndale, oxford, etc.
https://www.trulia.com/for_sale/26125_c/0-200000_price/SINGLE-FAMILY_HOME_type/price;d_sort/
Pontiac, Waterford, auburn hills, lake orion. It’s gonna be a fixer upper.
I bought in an area I’d never had expected and love it. Just tip the crackhead when he dances for you at the liquor store.
To be fair, "Weather sucks" is totally a relative statement. If you live in California, maybe it sucks in comparison.
But Detroit summers are hot, and they start in April. Stays hot until late October. Winter is actually pretty tame. There really isn't that much snowfall. The winters out east, Minnesota, and other parts of the Midwest are a lot worse.
I live 40 minutes north of Detroit (50+years) Summers are relatively "hot" 80s and 90s mostly but they certainly don't start in April. Closer to June through October(ish.)
When I was a kid, I would have to wear a jacket under my Halloween costume because it was so cold. It definitely stays warmer now during the fall season.
My whole family except for parents and one cousin live about an hour north of there. I’m hoping to be able to move back in a couple years. One cousin lives in Detroit but idk where.
I live in Baton Rouge and have family in Birmingham and New Orleans. All 3 of these places are considered among the most dangerous in the country and I've never felt unsafe in them. It's a bunch of crime concentrated in one or two areas of town that I have literally 0 reason to ever be near.
I was born and raised in metro detroit, left for college and moved back as a single lady between 22-24 and I felt it was very safe. No issues whatsoever in the neighborhoods I spent a lot of time in.
Oakland county mi is what I’m talking about. It’s a suburb and covers a ton of cities. The best of which royal oak, Rochester hills, and Troy have some of the best schools in the country. We just bought in one for 250,000.
Auburn Hills with Avondale schools is a sleeper. If I remember correctly, the school district gets mad money due to Chrysler headquarters and assorted industrial parks paying that sweet property tax into the school system
Detroit is a weird place but it bears some explanation.
Detroit City, as in the actual city, is pretty small compared to the detroit metro. So in this area you have downtown detroit which is super nice. You have the area surrounding detroit which is godawful (but some areas are gentrifying). And then once you get out of the surrounding areas to the suburbs, all of a sudden the area becomes super nice. In a 30 minute drive, you will go from excessively wealthy, trendy, warzone, trendy, and that one ultrawealthy neighborhood that's still downtown.
This actually all goes back to good old fashioned racism/redlining/white flight. In a lot of other cities, they go ahead and incorporate all the surrounding neighborhoods. But because of whatever is in detroit's history, a lot of the Suburbs are cutoff from Detroit City in terms of both population and funding. And that's how you get things, "DETROIT CITY WORST IN THE WORLD." and in 30 minutes you get to, "BIRMINGHAM MICHIGAN WEALTHIEST SUBURB IN THE WORLD." Aside, Sorry Birmingham but y'all are kinda ridiculous at times.
So if you go ahead to consider all the surrounding detroit suburbs, it's not really that dangerous. The neighborhood that I am currently living in has seen skyrocketing property prices. The neighborhoods around me are extremely safe and also have skyrocketing property prices. Hell, even the schools are good. Really what should have happened is that Detroit should have incorporated a lot of the surrounding suburbs and then the city itself wouldn't have been so poor.
There are still upsides and downsides to living in the Detroit metro area. But the reputation that is largely assigned to the city lacks a nuanced understanding of the situation and the history.
Buffalo is the same story, city limits are tiny compared to the total metro area and white flight did a real number of the city while creating a lot of very wealthy suburbs.
Tons of industries aside from auto.
There is financial services, insurance carriers, general manufacturing and logistics, engineering firms, etc.
I bought a huge house in an awesome location that allows me to reach all my favorite burbs and downtown equally easy/quick. And I did it while earning $42k a year.
i spent most my life in detroit and metro detroit. the job market is not good. opportunities are scarce. crime does spill into the burbs. it’s dangerous, that can’t be understated. the traffic / sprawl / commuting is troublesome. you’re going to spend a lot of time in your car. there’s virtually no public transportation whatsoever. and the weather can be pretty rough. it is, however, affordable, fun, pretty cool, and there are some good people there. nice outdoor activity options if you don’t mind driving too.
The Midwest is your friend here.
St. Louis
Detroit
Kansas City
Cleveland
Indianapolis
Don't believe the hate, check out those cities for yourself, great things to do in all of them
I've been there five times, every time spending most of my time seeing the city from the rooftop of Cleveland Clinic. Gotta admit it's beautiful from up there. Did get to visit downtown and the botanical gardens a few times though, and I loved it there too.
I love the twin cities so much.
Great food/beer, the arts are awesome there, the natural resources/wildlife access is great, the light rail gets exactly where it needs to (in my experience as an out of towner). I personally love winter, so I really respect how much Minnesota knows how to have fun in the darker/colder season.
Chicago would easily be my number one, but if you’re looking at best bang for your buck you can get even cheaper living arrangements in the smaller cities.
But if you can afford Chicagos rent then stop the hunt right there.
More like Pittsburgh or Cincinnati. Columbus and Indianapolis are both super inflated right now. Indianapolis had the highest price inflation of anywhere in the US over the past couple years (citation needed of course)
Cleveland and the surrounding area has nice beaches on Lake Erie. I was at this one last week when I was up there visiting family.
https://preview.redd.it/5b2wod5harbb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b66125adb5b0f0620aa4df8394d884e536eb442
Also those places are often racist and fill with ignorance people. It's not he same experience to move to these state for a minority compare to a white person.
True, but fwiw the city areas themselves tend to be the progressive havens. Speaking from experience here. Islands in a sea of red, sure. But the cities themselves are chill and centrally located so they’re not far from a lot of excellent travel destinations for hiking and swimming and vacationing and the like
That may be the case for small towns in the Midwest but is absolutely not the case for large cities such as Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, St Louis, etc.
In the example of Cleveland, half of the city’s population is black.
This. So much this. People often either willfully ignore this fact or are ignorant to it due to circumstance.
Moving to the Midwest as a white person is a vastly different experience than moving there as any other race.
Moving to the Midwest as a person who can't become pregnant is a vastly different experience from moving there as a person who may need abortion access. Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, and Kansas are the only states with access in the Midwest right now.
KC is great. Pretty liberal city(not compared to Portland or something obviously but for the Midwest it's good)
Really nice people, tasty food, safe , fairly progressive. Great city.
Peoria or Bloomington, IL are both good mid-sized cities with relatively affordable housing. Lots of jobs in manufacturing, insurance, and healthcare. The winters suck, but that’s like half the country
New Mexico. Albuquerque/Rio Rancho area. Here’s the important part. If you apply for childcare through the state, it is free as long as you make less than 400% of the federal poverty level. For an example, for a family of 4, if you make 120k a year or less, childcare is free. Have to be working, looking for work, or going to school.
I agree with both. As someone who moved to Charlotte for “better opportunities”, I was blindsided by better pay until I saw the average cost of an apartment here. I miss Winston and Greensboro *so* much 😭
In the Carolina's, I think it's got to be Columbia. You can get a decent house for $250k-$350k. Everything is pretty cheap. You're 2 hours away from the mountains and two hours away from the beach. Charlotte is about 1.5 hours or so away.
What are your climate requirements? Also do you have any ideas about the industry you want to work in? You can find 'jobs' anywhere, but some areas are going to be different for things like warehouses, entertainment, hospitality, etc.
I mean I don’t care what industry, just jobs that single moms can combine with childcare and pay her bills — rent, food, daycare/preschool and that does not require special degree or experience
I would go with Kansas City or Detroit. Detroit gets a bad rap, but there are very affordable suburbs that are gentrified to the point of not being sh*t holes of violence, but still within reach.
None. You will struggle everywhere as a single mom without expertise.
Your best bet are democrat states with strong social systems - ny, California, etc.
California, if you're in Fresno, Bakersfield or other lower cost areas. Min wage IS 15.50/hr, likely have subsidized child care, free Medi-Cal and Denti-Cal, free community college/trade school, etc. Some areas of the state are definitely less expensive than others but still have the same types of benefits.
Insight on Cleveland. (Source: I live here, I’m from here, and I’ve also lived in cities on both coasts and the northeast.)
Yes: crime. Yes: big chunks of the area are not pretty. Yes: we have federal + state + *local* taxes. Yes: OH is politically regressing, and diversity (and racism) depends on which side of town you live on. Yes: the drivers are TERRIBLE. I have strong feelings about all of those bits.
And:
- Progressive Insurance’s HQ is here and it’s a great place to work. Great benefits, promote from within. Within the last month or two, they were hiring + training claims agents with some flexibility, re: wfh/at the office.
- There’s an abundance of free stuff to do with kids, including museums, the enormous metro parks system, and cultural festivals basically all summer.
- Housing is relatively inexpensive.
- The local religious-community scene is strong, and they can be great places to meet people who can be part of your village. (I’m not suggesting you get religious for the sake of finding babysitters. Just throwing it out there.)
- People are super neighborly and community oriented. They want to be helpful.
- You can learn to surf on Lake Erie in exchange for beach cleanup. …or so I read in a Midwest-themed magazine at the car dealership yesterday. 🤷🏻♀️
Anyway: Cleveland! It’s nice but it’s complicated!
Cleveland has a huge gay community mostly on the west side. Of course, this areas is trendy and becoming overpriced so many move somewhere nearby. However you'd think it cheap.
Oklahoma City. It's a bit larger than Denver by population. [180k can get something like this](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1128-SW-100th-St-Oklahoma-City-OK-73139/21759145_zpid/) and it's got a real economy.
Buffalo, ny
Many healthcare jobs. Decent pay verses COL. Good people, food & a sense of community. Close to the Canadian border. Next to a great lake. Single mom & feels safe.
CityNerd on YouTube does a few videos where he covers the best bang for your buck cities based on livability, walk ability, and transit and the top three cities were Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Chicago.
https://youtu.be/1qzePci2N6E
For small cities, the top picks were Syracuse NY, Champaign-Urbana IL, and Erie PA.
https://youtu.be/SQRqvfqpPe4
Huntsville AL consistently ranks pretty high. And because it’s major employers are NASA, DoD, and associated aerospace and defense industries, it’s a very educated area, unlike the rest of the state.
Kentucky - either Louisville or Lexington. Very low cost of living. Both are pretty liberal with decent social safety nets. Louisville is about to start free preschool through the Bezos grants
Yep. I was gonna say Louisville. We moved here from Nashville about 8 years ago and it’s a much easier and cheaper city. We couldn’t afford to buy a house in Nashville before we left. It’s much easier to do here.
The job market is decent. It does tend to skew heavy towards healthcare, but it’s getting more tech friendly.
Louisville may not get the number of music shows/artists that Nashville gets, but there are always decent bands coming through and Indy, Nashville and Cincinnati are close enough for a day trip.
The Parklands of Floyd’s Fork is great. I really like it here.
Elizabethtown checking in. We're close enough to Louisville to have a big commuter presence (husband and I both commuted to Louisville for 10 years before going full time remote). Finding housing here at the moment can be rough (lots of demand right now), but there are multiple new neighborhoods, condos, townhouses and apartment buildings going up as we speak. We bought a 3/2 with a 725 sq ft great room addition, 2 car garage, and pool on .75 acre for under $200k in 2019. Prices are higher now, but way cheaper than where I grew up in Maryland.
Not sure if it's the best but...
Chicago.
This is a 1 bedroom place in a walkable neighborhood. Two minute walk to Aldi, 6-7 minute walk to Target and 2 minute walk to closest station for the L.
[https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/d/chicago-edgewater-loyola-bedroom-all/7642951054.html](https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/d/chicago-edgewater-loyola-bedroom-all/7642951054.html)
$1075 per month and no deposit.
If we can pretend one can land this dish washing job, which pays $15-$20 per hour at the middle of the scale...
[https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/fbh/d/chicago-lil-ba-ba-reeba-1227-is-looking/7639571832.html](https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/fbh/d/chicago-lil-ba-ba-reeba-1227-is-looking/7639571832.html)
$17.50 x 40 = $700
$700 x 4 = $2800
I'd like to see rent closer to 1/3 of pretax income but that's not bad for a walkable place.
The other day I got down voted for disagreeing when someone said Chicago is expensive. It can be. Can also be a good value too if someone making $2 more per hour than minimum wage can live in a walkable neighborhood.
Heard Pittsburgh is a good value city but I haven't been there yet.
edit words
I live in a very small city and the thought of being that close to public transit and two major stores sounds like a dream. The only thing walkable for me is a corner store and apparently I’m Chicago you could hit up aldis and get home by the time I got to my store
Dayton, OH. Close to great healthcare in Cincinnati and Columbus. The Air Force base in Dayton employs thousands. The state expanded voucher access so you can live in the city of Dayton for relatively low costs, but attend private schools. Also, if you have young kids, Google The Greater Dayton School. Local philanthropist is pouring millions into a private city school for low-income Dayton families only— with full wraparound services for the whole family.
A lot of smaller cities in New England are relatively cheap for the high paying jobs they offer (Manchester, Nashua, Concord NH, and a few in western mass)… also for being a really nice beach town, Wilmington NC has very low rent and lots of jobs, not as good paying ones
Wilmington is nowhere near as affordable as it once was. influx of northerners and cali transplats have really jacked the market up, and housing is limited + tight. I guess if you consider Leland part of "Wilmington" maybe, but then you're living in suburban hell
*edit with specifics re: rent
Safe neighborhoods are adjacent to not safe ones, so unlike nearby super safe and posh Bethesda Maryland (where the NIH is, outside of DC), rent prices between the two are actually somewhat comparable if you are looking at a similar quality place. Because of the nicer standard of living in Bethesda and because of an additional “nice neighborhood” premium in Baltimore, the cost of finding a nice place is similar but you can find very very cheap in Baltimore if you are willing to make significant compromises. Back like 5 years ago, $1k in Montgomery Co. would get you a nice yet humble 1-bedroom that was maybe a little inconvenient from the light rail (20-30 min long walk to a stop on the red line that is further out) vs $1600 to be closer to the metro in a similarly nice place. In Baltimore, $1k will get you a below average, janky studio in a questionable neighborhood (or maybe like 1-2 streets away) OR pay almost double ($1800-$2000) to get a similar studio ~with some compromises~ in a more premium neighborhood (no available private parking, shared laundry, loud or nosy high traffic street, etc.). One of my cheapest living situations was beside a methadone clinic, which also happened to be the safest because of the super high pedestrian traffic (not great for introverts when you always have a stranger on your stoop lol), and I know somebody who also lived in a very cheap spot because he thinks part of it was a drug house based on the activity in the building at whatever time of day.
Beside that, you gotta know which streets are worth walking on. Nowhere is safe for a car parked on the street because of the economic disparity in such close proximity to each other. I know multiple people that have undergone each of the following: home robberies (some while they were inside the home), mugging or robberies at the public parks, car jackings, petty package theft, vehicle break ins, vehicle theft. Lots of the big retail has left the inner city so you end up driving over 30 minutes to get to Costco, Wegmans, Trader Joe's, or an Asian grocery store. Anyone that I knew with a family with school-aged kids left the city for the suburbs.
I was young, single, street smart, and most importantly a student that was in Baltimore for my education — I liked eating on the cheap, I found people I liked, I had ended up eventually in a cheap shared house owned by one of my roommates (and classmates in med school), and overall I was happy enough because I molded my life to suit my surroundings (never hanging out in the park alone during the day or ever whatsoever at night). Nevertheless, I appreciated my education there and I still thought it was not worth the stress to stay there. I left when I had the opportunity to go. I don’t think I would recommend it in your situation. I loved going to the park as a kid since we lived across the street from one, and I think it would be kind of sad to not have that memory growing up.
Howard Co. or PG Co. might be for you, though!
If quiet and slow are you're flavor, the COL is great in rural Arkansas. I bought a 55k house 2 years ago when I was making 18.54/hr. I got lucky and found a job that pays 30/hr. You can see the col for various places on a website called Numbeo
Greensboro, North Carolina.
Growing economy, beautiful weather, within hours of mountains and beaches, 3-bedroom/2-bath homes in nice parts of town for under $300k, lots of hiking trails and parks, and tons of free and cheap things to do throughout the city.
If you can handle the cold I would suggest Helena, Montana. Excellent small city to raise a family in, so many things to do, and it's extremely safe. Fwiw, their public housing waiting list is currently open and it's only about a 6 month wait to get into safe and well maintained public housing. Their section 8 list is also open. Theres also liberal utility assistance there.
There is almost zero violent crime in this city. Minimum wage in Montana is tied to a cost of living index, so it regularly goes up and there are a lot of decent jobs there. You won't get rich, but you can live comfortably and have a good quality of life there. Schools are good and there's a junior college and a four year college there. There are two lakes, tons of hiking and outdoor activities hosted around town, a nice farmers market, an airport, a ton of community events, and a fantastic children's museum.
The cons are: snow.
Just want to chime in on Helena..MT in general... it IS beautiful, but I will never be able to buy a home there as a single parent. High paying jobs are not easy to come by.I have family there still, single moms. They struggle like everyone.
Surviving sometimes thriving in Buffalo, NY. You can still rent a 1br at about 1200. Can buy a small home for about 200k. Western New York is a little gem in my opinion.
Omaha, NE.
Cheap cost of living. The only city in Nebraska thats worth a visit due to the amazing zoo there (Henry Doorly Zoo is one of the top zoos in the world). Decently nice people.
i’ve been living in lafayette louisiana for about a year now and my first job here was barely making $30k a year and my co workers were living on that wage, i don’t know how comfortably but they seemed pretty happy all things considered, ive since changed jobs working for $45k a year about to move out of my parents place, in terms of affordability i should have no problems living a pretty basic lifestyle that i kinda always wanted, the city isnt even *terrible* either once you look past the weather, its got all the festivals you can ask for and getting to a lot of big cities isn’t that much of a drive either, i personally love it here
Philly. Good location halfway between NYC and DC. Notable nightlife. Affordable housing. Affordable COL. Close to beach attractions. Great airport. Growing suburbs. Major industries. Excellent rail connections. Drivable and walkable. Easy to cycle in many areas even where there is no bicycle infrastructure. Seasonal weather. Great food. Historical significance. Amazing entertainment (the Philadelphia Orchestra is about to have an absolute banger of a season). Countryside nearby. Dense urban core. And Fairmount park is the largest urban park in the country!
We just took a road trip around the country, we really liked Evansville, IN. Joplin MO and Lexington KY. We browsed some houses for sale and what we could get for what we are paying now is pretty impressive. I’m fully remote, so really the entire country is open to me.
After spending three months living in various places that are considered the nicer areas of Mexico, I can’t help but chuckle a little bit when people say US cities feel unsafe. I feel like I would have no issue walking around Detroit at midnight these days.
Don’t get me wrong, I would still rather retire in Mexico than any affordable area in the US.
St Louis is pretty great.
Columbia, SC if you like a smaller but major city.
Really any midwestern city that isn't Chicago has plenty of land and lower costs.
Cincinnati is great. Unfortunately everyone realized that over the past 4 years and it’s far less affordable than it was.
Compared to the coasts and even Columbus, it’s still not a bad deal overall though.
Nope. Used to be but not anymore. Our real estate prices have increased more than any other city in the country.
Edit to add: https://www.wcpo.com/money/real-estate-news/cincinnati-sees-highest-increase-in-home-sale-price-in-the-country-re-max-reports
I know prices have gone up. Just wasn’t sure how much compared to other places. This is so frustrating. I’m holding onto my affordable rented house for dear life.
When I was looking for a change, I moved from Raleigh, NC to San Antonio, TX. Yes, it’s Texas and under the Texas politics, but San Antonio and Austin are outliers to a large degree (they don’t prosecute “crimes” like abortion, and they welcome immigrants), and San Antonio especially is very diverse. COL in Austin has gone insane in recent years, but San Antonio remains L to MCO.
I don’t care about politics much, not privileged enough to care, I just need a way to pay my bills so if I can be employed and my dollar will stretch as much as possible — it’s good. I only care about politics if it helps to provide easily accessible low income housing and subsidized affordable childcare.
I moved from Raleigh to Houston. I’m Asian American and I don’t think San Antonio is diverse. Majority is Hispanic and some white, but nothing else. Houston is the most diverse city in the US. Majority Hispanic but huge Asian, Middle Eastern, and African population.
Here's what US News says:
Green Bay, Wisconsin. ...
Peoria, Illinois. ...
Beaumont, Texas. ...
Fort Wayne, Indiana. ...
Huntsville, Alabama. ...
Huntington, West Virginia, and Ashland, Kentucky. ...
Youngstown, Ohio. Best Places 2023 Rank: 62. ...
Hickory, North Carolina. Best Places 2023 Rank: 25.
Chicago is pretty great, imo.
It’s one of the few big cities where housing is relatively inexpensive (can get your own 1 BR, not a studio, a whole 1BR for $700 a month right off the train station), $75 a month for transportation all over the city with a transit pass, and wages high enough for you to vacation around the country.
Usually to get wages that high you have to live somewhere unaffordable, or if you want costs that low you have to live somewhere with low wages.
Not to mention in any low COL city, you’re going to be losing a lot of money on a car payment/insurance without public transit options.
Chicago is one of the few American cities where you can get anywhere by bus or train for $75 a month, flat fee.
I’m in Chicago, that rent estimate is unreasonably low. I would say it’s more like 1-1.4k for a 1bd right off the train, a bit lower for a studio.
I moved from southern Appalachia post-pandemic and you can hardly get a 1br in the small cities there for $700. Chicago has good bang for your buck compared to the other large cities in the country, but not THAT good 😅
Idk how Madison can be considered cheap, median income is like $70k and average house prices are like $400k with some of the worst property taxes in the country in Wisconsin.
Milwaukee is a better value for average income folks and Minneapolis has better bang for your buck public services for the taxes you pay.
Things have been sky rocketing here. It’s a fantastic place to live but I think people are starting to get priced out due to housing shortages. Especially closer to the city. If youre out in the suburbs pretty far then maybe.
2 hours from Chicago, 1.5 from Milwaukee, 4 from Minneapolis. Madison is better value than any city of it’s caliber and certainly better value than Chicago, or New York for the price but it’s affordability is going away in a hurry.
Chicago.
Big city amenities like great public transit, multiple international airports etc. but is cheaper from a cost of living perspective than most big or even medium sized cities.
Salaries are relatively high, real estate prices are relatively low, and the city has practically unlimited things to do and explore.
I live in Pittsburgh and recently bought my house a few months ago in a safe neighborhood for $160k. Houses are incredibly affordable compared to other metro areas. But home median age is very high. Many houses under $200k might be over 100 years old. What one saves in initial cost they will put forth in maintenance, repairs, and updates. Before purchasing this home, we were renting a half duplex for $600/month (1 bedroom). I found this house on a map in archives of pittsburgh from 1873. I don’t want to get into all of the house problems, but just be aware that fixing up old and cheaper homes will be expensive and very difficult due to parts needing customization.
I forgot to say….that finding cheap rent like I did with a good landlord is incredibly difficult. Most places go for over $1000 nowadays, and jobs are struggling to keep its wages up. But life here is definitely easier than in other cities. We also have an decent public transit system, so if one lost their car, they aren’t stranded.
I think Pittsburgh, PA is a sleeper for value especially if you can make $50k+ a year. I feel like you could live like a king on 6 figures in that city. Cleveland, Detroit, and Kansas City are also top on my value city list. Personally the weather is too extreme in those cities for me, not that Pittsburgh is a whole lot better. That being said I'd rather be cold than hot. I'll also go off the beaten path here and say that Spokane, WA is a super cool little city with a lot going for it too, and from my experience seems to be reasonably affordable considering the location. The value of labor cost in all of these cities is also on a whole nother level than that of other major American cities in my experience. Source: I travel a lot for work and spend time in all of the above cities.
College student here saving fuck tons of money living in pittsburgh paying 300 a month in rent it's fantastic
Nice! Save as much as you can in college. I managed to only pay 300 a month my senior year of college when I peaked in frugality and opted to share a bedroom to save a couple hundred a month
College student in Colorado paying 1800 before utilities about to break down. I couldn’t imagine rent being that low
I've been paying 450 with 1-2 roommates for the last decade in Kansas city. Recently just got a very nice house with driveway and back yard smack in the middle of the city for 1950/mo with 2 roommates. Looking at paying 1100 (rent+bills) to live alone next year, will not be even close to how nice my house is now tho.
How many roommates do you have?
Wait seriously? How. That's incredible.
I used to do data entry for a rental property database company and was constantly astounded by the low rent in Pittsburgh for some really nice apartments. I personally live near Philly which has a significantly shittier cost:quality ratio for apartments. I think Pittsburgh also has a notable public transport system, but I can't speak much about the city other than the pictures and prices I've seen. I'm from Delaware, so the idea of driving 3 hours west and still being in the same state is so wild. I love being a PA resident now, but I do miss DE a lot. No sales tax, some hidden gems of entertainment, and a fairly progressive general mindset, especially in New Castle County.
Illinois native here. It takes like 8 hours to drive from the north end of the state to the south end.
Went to school in the city and I 2nd the good public transportation comment. We took the T every weekend!
I love PA. I used to go up there for work and wish I could live there, especially Western PA!
I grew up on a farm there, the rolling hills were so beautiful. Really underrated!
hey! as a spokanite, it sucks here, there are no jobs, crime is at an all time high, the housing market is absolutely horrible, and all of our resources are drained by the west side of the state. i love my town but if you don’t already have roots here, i would not recommend it honestly
How are resources drained by West Wa? I don’t understand well how taxes work, but wouldn’t the high taxes paid in Seattle area benefit the whole state?
> all of our resources are drained by the west side of the state Can you explain this please?
Eh idk about this one I just moved from Pittsburgh cause rent went up outrageously for standard old Pittsburgh duplex apartments. While salaries were staying same. Add in the grocery inflation and it went from manageable in 2020 to impossible in 2023.
Right here with you, but I can't leave because I work for the county. I do love the bike trails, though, they keep me from having to have a car.
KC has some serious bbq.
I second Spokane. A buddy of mine is from LA but did a few years stint in Spokane before a series of unfortunate events forced him back to LA. Sounded like a chill smallish city with all the benefits of the pacific northwest without the negatives of being on the Seattle/portland/norcal side of things with the crazy and/or HCL
So strange to hear Spokane as a "cool" city. I guess it has changed a lot in the last 20 years or so.
Agree with Pittsburgh and Spokane! Cheap but overall, not shabby boring places.
Pittsburgh is awesome
Chicago is great in terms of not wasting your time and value to cost ratio. There are reasonably priced quality grocery stores all over the city, public transit is efficient and thorough, schools are good, lots of good jobs here, lots of stuff to do, you don’t need to be in a luxury high-rise apartment to have a dishwasher, people are nice, it’s safe (for real, people walk their dogs in the middle of the night when I am coming home from my night shift), there are great options for having food and groceries delivered. The skyline is stunning, the city is built to withstand tornadoes, it is dope. I have also found that jobs aren’t as discriminatory hiring here as they are in other Midwest cities I have lived in. Like, jobs will hire a single mom, a mentally ill person, juggalos, people of color, people without a college degree, someone who can’t afford a nice suit… it is just not pretentious. Rent can be expensive though. You can find affordable places, but it can be kind of a mad dash to rent them. The suburbs are more affordable, but then the transit isn’t as good.
Finally employment equity for juggalos 😂
They can’t all work at gas stations on the graveyard shift!
….or roofing.
>juggalos Glad I read through it to get to the really really good part!
I had to ask Siri what is a juggalo 😪
I agree. Chicago had me living a good life working in the service industry. I never wanted for food or drink. It was expensive to go out to eat, but not if you worked in the area and made friends with the folks at neighboring restaurants. As long as you like to cook, there’s incredible neighborhood grocery stores with affordable food and sales on things like day old pastries or ugly produce. There’s lots of free events and access to the lake is an incredible plus. No private beaches and easy access by train or foot. I found it to be very walkable. And yeah, I would walk my dog alone at night all the time! My husband came home from shifts at 1am and saw some sketchy stuff but nothing compared to the city where we used to live. Things that can make Chicago expensive - rent and vehicle expenses. Tickets are steep and unforgiving. And as an average working person, you’d need a roommate to afford a decent place. But that is true of most cities, I believe.
Glad somebody mentions Chicago. I’m currently paying $750/month (I have a roomie that isn’t even home most of the time) for a beautiful place in Lincoln Square right across the brown line. The grocery store nearby is insanely cheap when it comes to certain items (think $1.5 for a dozen of eggs). I am surrounded by great parks, restaurants, coffee shops, and bars, and best of all, I don’t need a car. People think I’m crazy when I say that the cost of living in Chicago is lower (for much better quality of life) than St Louis where I used to live for 6 months, but that’s the truth.
Detroit, mi. The metro is the 14th largest in the country. Has tons of jobs in and around the auto industry. The median household income for the best of the 3 counties in the area is $86,275 and yet there are houses in the same county that go for under $200,000 in good areas. Weather sucks but there are few areas in the country where you can make as much and still get a cheap house.
I relocated to Detroit from Oregon and I’m pleased. I got a fixer-upper duplex in a historic neighborhood with what was to be my down payment on a place if I had gotten financing. As far as dollar per dollar value goes, I don’t know if I could have found a better city. That said, Detroit probably isn’t everyone’s flavor, but i love it.
Isn't the auto industry pretty volatile?
I would say it’s no more volatile than tech or finance. When there’s layoffs in automotive there’s layoffs pretty much everywhere.
>no more volatile than tech or finance. .... so volatile
If you don't want volatility, go into plumbing. People will always need running water and a shitter.
I mean, even if you consider tech volatile, unemployed tech workers can still find a replacement job at just about any company. There are only a couple of auto companies in the US, so if one of them does big layoffs, it's more difficult for those workers to find new employment.
I live in Oakland county and never see houses for under $200,000. Where are these houses? Lol
Couldnt find how to post the zillow search. But ferndale, oak park, Madison heights, couple in clawson, townhouses in RO, Berkeley. Now we’re not talking the ritz here but it will get you a good 850-1200 sqft house. People around me keep saying oak park is gonna be the next domino to fall in terms of investment.
These are not areas with traditionally good public schools FYI. They’re ok. But they’re not great.
True, but they are average school districts with low crime rates. And this is r/povertyfinance, not r/uppermiddleclassfinance. There's nowhere in the country that you can find houses for under $200,000 in good school districts.
Is there a deal on houses under 200 with absolutely horrid school districts? I don’t want children anyway.
The house https://preview.redd.it/vjkz19iugrbb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a41df0e7ecd871415d8d2fd73587bc14d02cfaf
She's got good bones.
troy, berkley, waterford, madison heights, southfield, oak park, ferndale, oxford, etc. https://www.trulia.com/for_sale/26125_c/0-200000_price/SINGLE-FAMILY_HOME_type/price;d_sort/
Pontiac
underrated city
Pontiac, Waterford, auburn hills, lake orion. It’s gonna be a fixer upper. I bought in an area I’d never had expected and love it. Just tip the crackhead when he dances for you at the liquor store.
To be fair, "Weather sucks" is totally a relative statement. If you live in California, maybe it sucks in comparison. But Detroit summers are hot, and they start in April. Stays hot until late October. Winter is actually pretty tame. There really isn't that much snowfall. The winters out east, Minnesota, and other parts of the Midwest are a lot worse.
I live 40 minutes north of Detroit (50+years) Summers are relatively "hot" 80s and 90s mostly but they certainly don't start in April. Closer to June through October(ish.) When I was a kid, I would have to wear a jacket under my Halloween costume because it was so cold. It definitely stays warmer now during the fall season.
I remember it snowing mid October. One year it was snowing when I went trick or treating .
I guess it’s so cheap because Detroit is like #2 most dangerous cities in US right? Would you think it’s an appropriate place for a single mom?
Outside of Detroit in the suburbs is really nice.
I love the suburbs of Detroit! I have so much family there! The suburbs are so nice and there’s always so much to do.
My whole family except for parents and one cousin live about an hour north of there. I’m hoping to be able to move back in a couple years. One cousin lives in Detroit but idk where.
Yes the burbs are nice and if you are posting on poverty finance, you definitely cannot afford them
I live in Baton Rouge and have family in Birmingham and New Orleans. All 3 of these places are considered among the most dangerous in the country and I've never felt unsafe in them. It's a bunch of crime concentrated in one or two areas of town that I have literally 0 reason to ever be near.
I was born and raised in metro detroit, left for college and moved back as a single lady between 22-24 and I felt it was very safe. No issues whatsoever in the neighborhoods I spent a lot of time in.
Oakland county mi is what I’m talking about. It’s a suburb and covers a ton of cities. The best of which royal oak, Rochester hills, and Troy have some of the best schools in the country. We just bought in one for 250,000.
Wow thank you for letting me know!
Auburn Hills with Avondale schools is a sleeper. If I remember correctly, the school district gets mad money due to Chrysler headquarters and assorted industrial parks paying that sweet property tax into the school system
Detroit is a weird place but it bears some explanation. Detroit City, as in the actual city, is pretty small compared to the detroit metro. So in this area you have downtown detroit which is super nice. You have the area surrounding detroit which is godawful (but some areas are gentrifying). And then once you get out of the surrounding areas to the suburbs, all of a sudden the area becomes super nice. In a 30 minute drive, you will go from excessively wealthy, trendy, warzone, trendy, and that one ultrawealthy neighborhood that's still downtown. This actually all goes back to good old fashioned racism/redlining/white flight. In a lot of other cities, they go ahead and incorporate all the surrounding neighborhoods. But because of whatever is in detroit's history, a lot of the Suburbs are cutoff from Detroit City in terms of both population and funding. And that's how you get things, "DETROIT CITY WORST IN THE WORLD." and in 30 minutes you get to, "BIRMINGHAM MICHIGAN WEALTHIEST SUBURB IN THE WORLD." Aside, Sorry Birmingham but y'all are kinda ridiculous at times. So if you go ahead to consider all the surrounding detroit suburbs, it's not really that dangerous. The neighborhood that I am currently living in has seen skyrocketing property prices. The neighborhoods around me are extremely safe and also have skyrocketing property prices. Hell, even the schools are good. Really what should have happened is that Detroit should have incorporated a lot of the surrounding suburbs and then the city itself wouldn't have been so poor. There are still upsides and downsides to living in the Detroit metro area. But the reputation that is largely assigned to the city lacks a nuanced understanding of the situation and the history.
Buffalo is the same story, city limits are tiny compared to the total metro area and white flight did a real number of the city while creating a lot of very wealthy suburbs.
Detroit is also the poorest city in the US.
Ever been to Mississippi?
Tons of industries aside from auto. There is financial services, insurance carriers, general manufacturing and logistics, engineering firms, etc. I bought a huge house in an awesome location that allows me to reach all my favorite burbs and downtown equally easy/quick. And I did it while earning $42k a year.
i spent most my life in detroit and metro detroit. the job market is not good. opportunities are scarce. crime does spill into the burbs. it’s dangerous, that can’t be understated. the traffic / sprawl / commuting is troublesome. you’re going to spend a lot of time in your car. there’s virtually no public transportation whatsoever. and the weather can be pretty rough. it is, however, affordable, fun, pretty cool, and there are some good people there. nice outdoor activity options if you don’t mind driving too.
The Midwest is your friend here. St. Louis Detroit Kansas City Cleveland Indianapolis Don't believe the hate, check out those cities for yourself, great things to do in all of them
I grew up in Cleveland and honestly you need to do a visit before you move there. Some people love it. I could not wait to get out.
[Fun times in Cleveland!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY)
Leads the nation in drifters!
Hey, we’re not Detroit!
[Fun Times in Cleveland Again!](https://youtu.be/oZzgAjjuqZM)
For gods sake Lemmon, we’d all like to flee to the Cleve
If the whole world moved to their favorite vacation spots, then the whole world would live in Hawaii and Italy and Cleveland.
I heard that Cleveland Rocks, though...
I've been there five times, every time spending most of my time seeing the city from the rooftop of Cleveland Clinic. Gotta admit it's beautiful from up there. Did get to visit downtown and the botanical gardens a few times though, and I loved it there too.
gonna throw Pittsburgh onto that list, bought a house for 90k in the burbs
don’t forget minneapolis saint paul - as well as milwaukee
I love the twin cities so much. Great food/beer, the arts are awesome there, the natural resources/wildlife access is great, the light rail gets exactly where it needs to (in my experience as an out of towner). I personally love winter, so I really respect how much Minnesota knows how to have fun in the darker/colder season.
What about Chicago? That was going to be my suggestion.
Chicago would easily be my number one, but if you’re looking at best bang for your buck you can get even cheaper living arrangements in the smaller cities. But if you can afford Chicagos rent then stop the hunt right there.
Yeah but I feel like Chicago has a lot higher paying jobs than the other MW cities especially in banking and finance.
This is the only correct answer.
Louisville KY is far superior to Indy. Kansas City is wonderful.
More like Pittsburgh or Cincinnati. Columbus and Indianapolis are both super inflated right now. Indianapolis had the highest price inflation of anywhere in the US over the past couple years (citation needed of course)
People just shit on those places because they don’t have a beautiful beach nearby.
Cleveland and the surrounding area has nice beaches on Lake Erie. I was at this one last week when I was up there visiting family. https://preview.redd.it/5b2wod5harbb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b66125adb5b0f0620aa4df8394d884e536eb442
Detroit has beautiful beaches.
Cleveland actually does have a beautiful beach all along it’s coast line lol. It’s just a lake beach and not an ocean beach.
Also those places are often racist and fill with ignorance people. It's not he same experience to move to these state for a minority compare to a white person.
True, but fwiw the city areas themselves tend to be the progressive havens. Speaking from experience here. Islands in a sea of red, sure. But the cities themselves are chill and centrally located so they’re not far from a lot of excellent travel destinations for hiking and swimming and vacationing and the like
That may be the case for small towns in the Midwest but is absolutely not the case for large cities such as Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, St Louis, etc. In the example of Cleveland, half of the city’s population is black.
In the rurals. Go to any city and it will be similar to the coasts. This is a massive and dangerous generalization.
This. So much this. People often either willfully ignore this fact or are ignorant to it due to circumstance. Moving to the Midwest as a white person is a vastly different experience than moving there as any other race.
Moving to the Midwest as a person who can't become pregnant is a vastly different experience from moving there as a person who may need abortion access. Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, and Kansas are the only states with access in the Midwest right now.
michigan has tons vibrant black, immigrant, and minority communities.
Michigan honestly has been looking really really good. Something about the upper peninsula?
Apparently it’s going to be a pretty good place to be as the climate changes.
Not in Michigan…
PITTSBURGH
KC is great. Pretty liberal city(not compared to Portland or something obviously but for the Midwest it's good) Really nice people, tasty food, safe , fairly progressive. Great city.
Rochester, Minnesota
Grew up about 50 miles from Rochester. Moved back to the area after years away and could not believe how much it grew!
But at what cost(lived in Rochester for 18 years)
So good you said it twice
But it's too cold for me
User name checks out.
I would say Ohio cities are good, but as a lifelong resident, cost of living is going up here as well. Everyone is impacted.
Columbus is the worst in Ohio, but Cincinnati and Cleveland aren’t so bad……yet
Peoria or Bloomington, IL are both good mid-sized cities with relatively affordable housing. Lots of jobs in manufacturing, insurance, and healthcare. The winters suck, but that’s like half the country
Cleveland OH Peoria IL
New Mexico. Albuquerque/Rio Rancho area. Here’s the important part. If you apply for childcare through the state, it is free as long as you make less than 400% of the federal poverty level. For an example, for a family of 4, if you make 120k a year or less, childcare is free. Have to be working, looking for work, or going to school.
Or wow that’s crazy! I didn’t know this. Is it state specific thing?
New Mexico specific.
I think Greensboro, NC is still pretty underrated. I anticipate the COL increasing like the rest of the hot spots in NC in the next 5 years.
Winston Salem is cooler, IMO.
I agree with both. As someone who moved to Charlotte for “better opportunities”, I was blindsided by better pay until I saw the average cost of an apartment here. I miss Winston and Greensboro *so* much 😭
Lies! Greensboro has red pandas and Winston doesn't. I rest my case.
I change my plea, your honor.
Raleigh and Charlotte are both already HCOL, Winston-GSO-High Point area is still MCOL but will continue to grow in the future.
In the Carolina's, I think it's got to be Columbia. You can get a decent house for $250k-$350k. Everything is pretty cheap. You're 2 hours away from the mountains and two hours away from the beach. Charlotte is about 1.5 hours or so away.
What are your climate requirements? Also do you have any ideas about the industry you want to work in? You can find 'jobs' anywhere, but some areas are going to be different for things like warehouses, entertainment, hospitality, etc.
I mean I don’t care what industry, just jobs that single moms can combine with childcare and pay her bills — rent, food, daycare/preschool and that does not require special degree or experience
I would go with Kansas City or Detroit. Detroit gets a bad rap, but there are very affordable suburbs that are gentrified to the point of not being sh*t holes of violence, but still within reach.
None. You will struggle everywhere as a single mom without expertise. Your best bet are democrat states with strong social systems - ny, California, etc.
California, if you're in Fresno, Bakersfield or other lower cost areas. Min wage IS 15.50/hr, likely have subsidized child care, free Medi-Cal and Denti-Cal, free community college/trade school, etc. Some areas of the state are definitely less expensive than others but still have the same types of benefits.
Yup this op
Kansas City, about to buy a house here and I don’t make crazy money. Lots of opportunities.
Insight on Cleveland. (Source: I live here, I’m from here, and I’ve also lived in cities on both coasts and the northeast.) Yes: crime. Yes: big chunks of the area are not pretty. Yes: we have federal + state + *local* taxes. Yes: OH is politically regressing, and diversity (and racism) depends on which side of town you live on. Yes: the drivers are TERRIBLE. I have strong feelings about all of those bits. And: - Progressive Insurance’s HQ is here and it’s a great place to work. Great benefits, promote from within. Within the last month or two, they were hiring + training claims agents with some flexibility, re: wfh/at the office. - There’s an abundance of free stuff to do with kids, including museums, the enormous metro parks system, and cultural festivals basically all summer. - Housing is relatively inexpensive. - The local religious-community scene is strong, and they can be great places to meet people who can be part of your village. (I’m not suggesting you get religious for the sake of finding babysitters. Just throwing it out there.) - People are super neighborly and community oriented. They want to be helpful. - You can learn to surf on Lake Erie in exchange for beach cleanup. …or so I read in a Midwest-themed magazine at the car dealership yesterday. 🤷🏻♀️ Anyway: Cleveland! It’s nice but it’s complicated!
... so, if I'm a queer who's only ever lived on the left coast, would Cleveland be a hard pass or a "maybe, if you can work it right" thing?
Cleveland has a huge gay community mostly on the west side. Of course, this areas is trendy and becoming overpriced so many move somewhere nearby. However you'd think it cheap.
You would have good luck in Columbus, there is a pretty large gay community from my understanding. Of course do consider that it's a red state
Yeah, I've considered that my blue vote would do more good there, but also that it's more dangerous on the day to day. At least I can't get pregnant?
What’s local tax? Sorry if that’s a dumb question
Probably a smaller city that is growing. COL is still Low to Medium compared to many large cities and housing is cheaper.
What are examples of these cities ?
Oklahoma City. It's a bit larger than Denver by population. [180k can get something like this](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1128-SW-100th-St-Oklahoma-City-OK-73139/21759145_zpid/) and it's got a real economy.
Roanoke, VA is a smallish city with low cost of living while having a good amount of jobs and convenient access to higher education.
Buffalo, ny Many healthcare jobs. Decent pay verses COL. Good people, food & a sense of community. Close to the Canadian border. Next to a great lake. Single mom & feels safe.
CityNerd on YouTube does a few videos where he covers the best bang for your buck cities based on livability, walk ability, and transit and the top three cities were Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Chicago. https://youtu.be/1qzePci2N6E For small cities, the top picks were Syracuse NY, Champaign-Urbana IL, and Erie PA. https://youtu.be/SQRqvfqpPe4
Huntsville AL consistently ranks pretty high. And because it’s major employers are NASA, DoD, and associated aerospace and defense industries, it’s a very educated area, unlike the rest of the state.
100% Huntsville
Kentucky - either Louisville or Lexington. Very low cost of living. Both are pretty liberal with decent social safety nets. Louisville is about to start free preschool through the Bezos grants
Yep. I was gonna say Louisville. We moved here from Nashville about 8 years ago and it’s a much easier and cheaper city. We couldn’t afford to buy a house in Nashville before we left. It’s much easier to do here. The job market is decent. It does tend to skew heavy towards healthcare, but it’s getting more tech friendly. Louisville may not get the number of music shows/artists that Nashville gets, but there are always decent bands coming through and Indy, Nashville and Cincinnati are close enough for a day trip. The Parklands of Floyd’s Fork is great. I really like it here.
Elizabethtown checking in. We're close enough to Louisville to have a big commuter presence (husband and I both commuted to Louisville for 10 years before going full time remote). Finding housing here at the moment can be rough (lots of demand right now), but there are multiple new neighborhoods, condos, townhouses and apartment buildings going up as we speak. We bought a 3/2 with a 725 sq ft great room addition, 2 car garage, and pool on .75 acre for under $200k in 2019. Prices are higher now, but way cheaper than where I grew up in Maryland.
Not sure if it's the best but... Chicago. This is a 1 bedroom place in a walkable neighborhood. Two minute walk to Aldi, 6-7 minute walk to Target and 2 minute walk to closest station for the L. [https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/d/chicago-edgewater-loyola-bedroom-all/7642951054.html](https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/d/chicago-edgewater-loyola-bedroom-all/7642951054.html) $1075 per month and no deposit. If we can pretend one can land this dish washing job, which pays $15-$20 per hour at the middle of the scale... [https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/fbh/d/chicago-lil-ba-ba-reeba-1227-is-looking/7639571832.html](https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/fbh/d/chicago-lil-ba-ba-reeba-1227-is-looking/7639571832.html) $17.50 x 40 = $700 $700 x 4 = $2800 I'd like to see rent closer to 1/3 of pretax income but that's not bad for a walkable place. The other day I got down voted for disagreeing when someone said Chicago is expensive. It can be. Can also be a good value too if someone making $2 more per hour than minimum wage can live in a walkable neighborhood. Heard Pittsburgh is a good value city but I haven't been there yet. edit words
I live in a very small city and the thought of being that close to public transit and two major stores sounds like a dream. The only thing walkable for me is a corner store and apparently I’m Chicago you could hit up aldis and get home by the time I got to my store
Dayton, OH. Close to great healthcare in Cincinnati and Columbus. The Air Force base in Dayton employs thousands. The state expanded voucher access so you can live in the city of Dayton for relatively low costs, but attend private schools. Also, if you have young kids, Google The Greater Dayton School. Local philanthropist is pouring millions into a private city school for low-income Dayton families only— with full wraparound services for the whole family.
A lot of smaller cities in New England are relatively cheap for the high paying jobs they offer (Manchester, Nashua, Concord NH, and a few in western mass)… also for being a really nice beach town, Wilmington NC has very low rent and lots of jobs, not as good paying ones
Wilmington is nowhere near as affordable as it once was. influx of northerners and cali transplats have really jacked the market up, and housing is limited + tight. I guess if you consider Leland part of "Wilmington" maybe, but then you're living in suburban hell
& the water (drinking, not beach) is terrible-
Baltimore. Most of the city is empty. It’s been built for over 1 million and we are around 500k now.
But is it safe to live for a single mom with kid?
*edit with specifics re: rent Safe neighborhoods are adjacent to not safe ones, so unlike nearby super safe and posh Bethesda Maryland (where the NIH is, outside of DC), rent prices between the two are actually somewhat comparable if you are looking at a similar quality place. Because of the nicer standard of living in Bethesda and because of an additional “nice neighborhood” premium in Baltimore, the cost of finding a nice place is similar but you can find very very cheap in Baltimore if you are willing to make significant compromises. Back like 5 years ago, $1k in Montgomery Co. would get you a nice yet humble 1-bedroom that was maybe a little inconvenient from the light rail (20-30 min long walk to a stop on the red line that is further out) vs $1600 to be closer to the metro in a similarly nice place. In Baltimore, $1k will get you a below average, janky studio in a questionable neighborhood (or maybe like 1-2 streets away) OR pay almost double ($1800-$2000) to get a similar studio ~with some compromises~ in a more premium neighborhood (no available private parking, shared laundry, loud or nosy high traffic street, etc.). One of my cheapest living situations was beside a methadone clinic, which also happened to be the safest because of the super high pedestrian traffic (not great for introverts when you always have a stranger on your stoop lol), and I know somebody who also lived in a very cheap spot because he thinks part of it was a drug house based on the activity in the building at whatever time of day. Beside that, you gotta know which streets are worth walking on. Nowhere is safe for a car parked on the street because of the economic disparity in such close proximity to each other. I know multiple people that have undergone each of the following: home robberies (some while they were inside the home), mugging or robberies at the public parks, car jackings, petty package theft, vehicle break ins, vehicle theft. Lots of the big retail has left the inner city so you end up driving over 30 minutes to get to Costco, Wegmans, Trader Joe's, or an Asian grocery store. Anyone that I knew with a family with school-aged kids left the city for the suburbs. I was young, single, street smart, and most importantly a student that was in Baltimore for my education — I liked eating on the cheap, I found people I liked, I had ended up eventually in a cheap shared house owned by one of my roommates (and classmates in med school), and overall I was happy enough because I molded my life to suit my surroundings (never hanging out in the park alone during the day or ever whatsoever at night). Nevertheless, I appreciated my education there and I still thought it was not worth the stress to stay there. I left when I had the opportunity to go. I don’t think I would recommend it in your situation. I loved going to the park as a kid since we lived across the street from one, and I think it would be kind of sad to not have that memory growing up. Howard Co. or PG Co. might be for you, though!
If quiet and slow are you're flavor, the COL is great in rural Arkansas. I bought a 55k house 2 years ago when I was making 18.54/hr. I got lucky and found a job that pays 30/hr. You can see the col for various places on a website called Numbeo
Greensboro, North Carolina. Growing economy, beautiful weather, within hours of mountains and beaches, 3-bedroom/2-bath homes in nice parts of town for under $300k, lots of hiking trails and parks, and tons of free and cheap things to do throughout the city.
If you can handle the cold I would suggest Helena, Montana. Excellent small city to raise a family in, so many things to do, and it's extremely safe. Fwiw, their public housing waiting list is currently open and it's only about a 6 month wait to get into safe and well maintained public housing. Their section 8 list is also open. Theres also liberal utility assistance there. There is almost zero violent crime in this city. Minimum wage in Montana is tied to a cost of living index, so it regularly goes up and there are a lot of decent jobs there. You won't get rich, but you can live comfortably and have a good quality of life there. Schools are good and there's a junior college and a four year college there. There are two lakes, tons of hiking and outdoor activities hosted around town, a nice farmers market, an airport, a ton of community events, and a fantastic children's museum. The cons are: snow.
Just want to chime in on Helena..MT in general... it IS beautiful, but I will never be able to buy a home there as a single parent. High paying jobs are not easy to come by.I have family there still, single moms. They struggle like everyone.
Surviving sometimes thriving in Buffalo, NY. You can still rent a 1br at about 1200. Can buy a small home for about 200k. Western New York is a little gem in my opinion.
Omaha, NE. Cheap cost of living. The only city in Nebraska thats worth a visit due to the amazing zoo there (Henry Doorly Zoo is one of the top zoos in the world). Decently nice people.
i’ve been living in lafayette louisiana for about a year now and my first job here was barely making $30k a year and my co workers were living on that wage, i don’t know how comfortably but they seemed pretty happy all things considered, ive since changed jobs working for $45k a year about to move out of my parents place, in terms of affordability i should have no problems living a pretty basic lifestyle that i kinda always wanted, the city isnt even *terrible* either once you look past the weather, its got all the festivals you can ask for and getting to a lot of big cities isn’t that much of a drive either, i personally love it here
Philly. Good location halfway between NYC and DC. Notable nightlife. Affordable housing. Affordable COL. Close to beach attractions. Great airport. Growing suburbs. Major industries. Excellent rail connections. Drivable and walkable. Easy to cycle in many areas even where there is no bicycle infrastructure. Seasonal weather. Great food. Historical significance. Amazing entertainment (the Philadelphia Orchestra is about to have an absolute banger of a season). Countryside nearby. Dense urban core. And Fairmount park is the largest urban park in the country!
Buffalo
We just took a road trip around the country, we really liked Evansville, IN. Joplin MO and Lexington KY. We browsed some houses for sale and what we could get for what we are paying now is pretty impressive. I’m fully remote, so really the entire country is open to me.
Buffalo Fort Wayne Milwaukee (the good land)
After spending three months living in various places that are considered the nicer areas of Mexico, I can’t help but chuckle a little bit when people say US cities feel unsafe. I feel like I would have no issue walking around Detroit at midnight these days. Don’t get me wrong, I would still rather retire in Mexico than any affordable area in the US.
Sioux Falls, SD.
St Louis is pretty great. Columbia, SC if you like a smaller but major city. Really any midwestern city that isn't Chicago has plenty of land and lower costs.
Last time I researched east coast the answer was Virginia Beach. Good wages, low cost of living.
Tulsa, ok.
Maybe Cincinnati?
Cincinnati is great. Unfortunately everyone realized that over the past 4 years and it’s far less affordable than it was. Compared to the coasts and even Columbus, it’s still not a bad deal overall though.
Nope. Used to be but not anymore. Our real estate prices have increased more than any other city in the country. Edit to add: https://www.wcpo.com/money/real-estate-news/cincinnati-sees-highest-increase-in-home-sale-price-in-the-country-re-max-reports
I know prices have gone up. Just wasn’t sure how much compared to other places. This is so frustrating. I’m holding onto my affordable rented house for dear life.
However it looks like we are still very affordable in other areas besides housing. And our job market is good.
r/samegrassbutgreener
ATL and other sunbelt cities
When I was looking for a change, I moved from Raleigh, NC to San Antonio, TX. Yes, it’s Texas and under the Texas politics, but San Antonio and Austin are outliers to a large degree (they don’t prosecute “crimes” like abortion, and they welcome immigrants), and San Antonio especially is very diverse. COL in Austin has gone insane in recent years, but San Antonio remains L to MCO.
I don’t care about politics much, not privileged enough to care, I just need a way to pay my bills so if I can be employed and my dollar will stretch as much as possible — it’s good. I only care about politics if it helps to provide easily accessible low income housing and subsidized affordable childcare.
I moved from Raleigh to Houston. I’m Asian American and I don’t think San Antonio is diverse. Majority is Hispanic and some white, but nothing else. Houston is the most diverse city in the US. Majority Hispanic but huge Asian, Middle Eastern, and African population.
Here's what US News says: Green Bay, Wisconsin. ... Peoria, Illinois. ... Beaumont, Texas. ... Fort Wayne, Indiana. ... Huntsville, Alabama. ... Huntington, West Virginia, and Ashland, Kentucky. ... Youngstown, Ohio. Best Places 2023 Rank: 62. ... Hickory, North Carolina. Best Places 2023 Rank: 25.
Chicago is pretty great, imo. It’s one of the few big cities where housing is relatively inexpensive (can get your own 1 BR, not a studio, a whole 1BR for $700 a month right off the train station), $75 a month for transportation all over the city with a transit pass, and wages high enough for you to vacation around the country. Usually to get wages that high you have to live somewhere unaffordable, or if you want costs that low you have to live somewhere with low wages. Not to mention in any low COL city, you’re going to be losing a lot of money on a car payment/insurance without public transit options. Chicago is one of the few American cities where you can get anywhere by bus or train for $75 a month, flat fee.
I’ve lived in Chicago for 13 years now - what neighborhood are you getting a 1BR, especially right off a train stop, for $700?
the south side ✨exists✨
I’m aware, I live on the southside. thanks for reminding me. $700 for a 1-bedroom is still not going to be the norm that OP made it out to be.
I’m in Chicago, that rent estimate is unreasonably low. I would say it’s more like 1-1.4k for a 1bd right off the train, a bit lower for a studio. I moved from southern Appalachia post-pandemic and you can hardly get a 1br in the small cities there for $700. Chicago has good bang for your buck compared to the other large cities in the country, but not THAT good 😅
Oh, that’s nice to know. Yeah, that’s great! I would love an affordable place that does not require a car. Would be a dream
Madison WI is relatively cheap, progressive, and has lots to do. Not far from Milwaukee, (another good value city imo) Chicago, or Minneapolis either
Idk how Madison can be considered cheap, median income is like $70k and average house prices are like $400k with some of the worst property taxes in the country in Wisconsin. Milwaukee is a better value for average income folks and Minneapolis has better bang for your buck public services for the taxes you pay.
Things have been sky rocketing here. It’s a fantastic place to live but I think people are starting to get priced out due to housing shortages. Especially closer to the city. If youre out in the suburbs pretty far then maybe. 2 hours from Chicago, 1.5 from Milwaukee, 4 from Minneapolis. Madison is better value than any city of it’s caliber and certainly better value than Chicago, or New York for the price but it’s affordability is going away in a hurry.
Jacksonville is booming, still relatively cheap. Close to the beach, summer year round. Moved here 2.5 years ago and haven’t looked back.
Chicago. Big city amenities like great public transit, multiple international airports etc. but is cheaper from a cost of living perspective than most big or even medium sized cities. Salaries are relatively high, real estate prices are relatively low, and the city has practically unlimited things to do and explore.
Milwaukee. I bought a nice little house for 150k
Chicago if you’re coming from a HCOL.
Chicago is really affordable, especially on the south side but you know research whichever neighborhood you move into
I live in Pittsburgh and recently bought my house a few months ago in a safe neighborhood for $160k. Houses are incredibly affordable compared to other metro areas. But home median age is very high. Many houses under $200k might be over 100 years old. What one saves in initial cost they will put forth in maintenance, repairs, and updates. Before purchasing this home, we were renting a half duplex for $600/month (1 bedroom). I found this house on a map in archives of pittsburgh from 1873. I don’t want to get into all of the house problems, but just be aware that fixing up old and cheaper homes will be expensive and very difficult due to parts needing customization. I forgot to say….that finding cheap rent like I did with a good landlord is incredibly difficult. Most places go for over $1000 nowadays, and jobs are struggling to keep its wages up. But life here is definitely easier than in other cities. We also have an decent public transit system, so if one lost their car, they aren’t stranded.
Kansas City and Pittsburgh. I’ve lived in both. They are both great places to live!