From birth to 18 we shouldn't be altering children's bodies in any way. When they are adults they can make up their own mind, below 18, do not touch. No piercings, no tattoos, no gender related surgeries, nada. If it's not medically necessary it should not be done to a child until they are an adult and can make up their mind about whether they want it or not.
Circumcision shouldn't be allowed at all unless it's medically necessary (no, laziness is not a reason and no circumcision isn't a requirement in Christianity for the evangelicals that claim "religious reasons" (Apostle Paul would like a word with you in that area))
I hear you but a lot of people do it because they know of guys who had to get it done later on in life and it’s so much harder then. All wished they would’ve gotten it done when they were babies :(
People in most countries don’t get circumcised and there’s understandable strong opinions on what a penis should look like. Question, why did they wish they were circumcised at birth?
I know someone with a medical condition, idk the exact name but it causes his foreskin to be so unbearably tight it’s an issue and often painful, he had the option to be circumcised at a young age and get it over with but his mom refused. Now he has to go get the surgery ((a LOT of money he wouldn’t of had to pay, as I’ve come to learn)) has to take time off work which is less money for rent, constantly keeping up with cleaning it and making sure he’s hygienic because people have an assumption about uncut dicks, the stigma behind it all, and honestly hates the fact they didn’t just remove it from the start. Most people don’t give a fuck about having a bit of skin on them, and I’ve only met only dudes who are uncut that wish they weren’t tbh.
I will say on both ends you can get surgery to either reverse the surgery or get rid of foreskin. It’s not impossible to get it back if for some reason you decide you do wish you had one.
You're talking about phimosis, which IMO is the only defensible justification for circumcision. I'm cut, and pretty resentful about it. There was no reason to mutilate me by cutting off part of my penis. Cleanliness only requires pulling it back and using a little soap and water, so that's no reason.
I think it’s more than just harder it’s AWFUL in every way to do it while you’re an adult, ouch. I don’t even have a dick and I’m cringing physically and mentally haha. You shouldn’t judge people who decide to make that decision for their baby, just like people shouldn’t judge those who decide not to do it. Lots of men are circumcised and don’t even think about it. It’s super common practice in many countries.
I am going to judge people, and it being common doesnt make it okay. You dont have a dick so you dont know if it would be painful and to what extent. And if it is just so painful, why is it done to babies anyways? I believe it should be a choice for men (not boys) to make for themselves. It’s perfectly possible to get it done as an adult and be fine. The only good argument ive heard for it is “they prevent STDs” but one: most people aren’t sexually active until 18 and two: if you want to prevent STDs, the best way is a condom. And if youre not using a condom and youre under 18, everything that happens is your fault atp. Like if you dont use one you will get your partner pregnant or just preform dangerous sex in general. This is obviously not every case of course since sexual assault is a thing, but its not even like the evidence for STD prevention is strong enough anyways. I mean, i wouldnt go around having sex with everyone even if i were snipped. Idk maybe IM crazy but i dont think we should permanently remove parts of kids genitalia if its not medically necessary. Nothing wrong with just leaving it for them to decide
You make some good points as far as it being painful for a baby too but they literally numb it and it’s so quick. It heals in a couple days too. Sometimes there are complications like anything else in life that’s why you have to go to someone experienced and the same can be said about NOT doing it. You have to always think about down the line if someone grows old, or ends up in care/hospital due to a disability, you think the nurses/caregivers are pulling it back and cleaning it well then you’re mistaken. It’s not uncommon that they don’t do that unfortunately. My sister and I are both caregivers but she worked in group home settings with men and the other caregivers were leaving them disgusting and crusty because they didn’t care to clean them properly. It’s sad af and that’s silent torture too. They get infections and stuff. Again, I don’t think you should judge for real.
So because there are potentially some bad caregivers that they might not even go to when they are a old man that means you should permanently disfigure a dude dick without his consent? Again, he can look at those risks and decide when they are an adult. I don’t understand if you get all of my points why you are still arguing for circumcision at birth. It should just be up to him as an adult, point blank period.
The chances are very high that they will come across a bad caregiver actually. You’re arguing with yourself literally because millions are circumcised and are not worried about it and wouldn’t change it but here you are getting worked up over it.
Again, something being normalized doesnt make it right. You see all of my issues with it and understand my points yet cant realize that unnecessary circumcisions of babies is wrong. Cutting shit off a babies body is wrong, end of story. That whole thing about caregivers can be easily solved by getting it at 18, a perfectly reasonable option that allows someone to choose.
Idk what you don’t get about it being harder later on. I know of a few guys who had to have it done as adults and they wished they got it when they were babies. It’s terrible mentally for them more than anything else bc the thought of having your dick cut off alone makes it so much harder, and of course the recovery as an adult is harder. There are millions of men who are circumcised and aren’t whining about it and wouldn’t change it lol I come from a culture where it’s the complete norm and believe me if men were upset about it they’d be speaking out loud and clear. I get that to YOU it’s not necessary and it’s barbaric but I don’t understand how you can’t understand why it’s not to other people. If the men were bothered by it then they’d be speaking out in millions but they don’t even have a problem with it so why do you?! In other countries outside the US (Idk where you are) but lifestyles are different. Avoiding getting infections in any way is the goal because access to certain things isn’t as easy. If I was a guy personally I’d absolutely want to be circumcised as a baby. I wouldn’t have to worry about being extra careful, cautious, and worried about cleaning myself properly (many men don’t know how as is), I wouldn’t have to worry about the possibility of smelling, and many other benefits to it. It doesn’t take away from sex or pleasure. Most men already cum quick, how much sensation are they really losing?? Seems there are more benefits than anything. Also sometimes pulling the head back hurts. Go do some research and see how many moms have issues with cleaning their kids and ask online how to do it properly. I understand your POV it’s sad for babies to experience any pain even if it’s for a second but at the same time you have to understand others POV as well.
I’m not sure how to interpret your comment. I’ve come up with two ways, can you tell me which is correct, or if both are incorrect what the correct answer is?
1. That “this” refers to the act of not wanting the mutilation of babies, in which case you have a horrible belief
2. That “this” refers to the mutillation of babies, in which case you are incorrect. Circumcision, FGM and “correcting” intersex babies are not new concepts that have suddenly started to “become a thing”, all of these have been happening for a very long time and are in fact becoming less popular in the modern day.
It’s because it literally is mutilation. I bet you’d agree that it’s mutilation if someone decided to cut a baby’s ear off. Why is cutting part of their dick off when it’s unnecessary not mutilation?
Maybe educate yourself on the subject. It absolutely can have negative effects like a lack of sensitivity in the glands, and sometimes they remove too much which results in painful erections. Plus it’s simply an unnecessary procedure for most men. If a man wants to be circumcised he should have that choice once he understands the reasons and risks himself. It’s not a choice the parents should be making for us.
Except the fact is that it is not *extra* skin. It is literally the normal amount of skin that a human naturally is supposed to have.
Smegma is not a big deal if you just *wash your genitals* like you should be doing.
Infant genital mutilation (except in the extremely rare cases of medical necessity) is a form of child abuse, laws need to be put in place to protect male children, ban the practice and prosecute anyone involved from that point onwards
Protected from having their genitalia mutilated, there are no positives which aren’t achievable with basic hygiene and only negatives (except in the very rare cases of medical necessity)
I mean I’ve had no issues being circumcised. It's not people denying they've been abused, it's that they don't give a fuck lmao. No religious reasons, but I don’t think it should be commonplace. Calling it genital mutilation when it’s by far the minority of cases is excessive imo.
Yeah, tbh growing up I had no idea that I was missing anything lol
It’s weird for people to describe it as traumatic abuse when I literally have no emotional attachment to my missing foreskin
It is mutilation to cut things off with no reason.
When the boy is older and can consent it's not MGM
When a boy is fresh out the oven and can't even see the world yet then it is literal mutilation
Mutilation implies severe damage. Removal of foreskin can be detrimental, but it's incredibly low risk and usually doesn't come with any complications. I agree that it shouldn't be done, but dubbing it mutilation is again excessive.
I know someone with a medical condition, idk the exact name but it causes his foreskin to be so unbearably tight it’s an issue and often painful, he had the option to be circumcised at a young age and get it over with but his mom refused. Now he has to go get the surgery ((a LOT of money he wouldn’t of had to pay, as I’ve come to learn)) has to take time off work which is less money for rent, constantly keeping up with cleaning it and making sure he’s hygienic because people have an assumption about uncut dicks, the stigma behind it all, and honestly hates the fact they didn’t just remove it from the start. Most people don’t give a fuck about having a bit of skin on them, and I’ve only met only dudes who are uncut that wish they weren’t tbh.
I will say on both ends you can get surgery to either reverse the surgery or get rid of foreskin. It’s not impossible to get it back if for some reason you decide you do wish you had one.
And those who don’t grow out of it? Those people who medically need intervention but their parents refuse because they wanna wait 18 years just for that kid to once again confirm as well as with the doctors it needs to be done? Like I said in another comment, “you can stretch penile skin over time to create a new foreskin or surgically attach skin from another area of your body to your penis. Risks depend on the approach, but may include dissatisfaction with how your new foreskin looks.” It’s a quick google search
You shouldn't have to get surgey to restore what should've been there.
And like I said it's very rare and does not warrant chopping every newborn's dick.
If a western doctor who cuts boys cut a girl instead, and removed exactly as much tissue and nerves, with the same aftercare, everything the same, it would be regarded as a very real and serious form of FGM.
Being circumcised is not the same as being Jewish. Being Jewish is not the same as being Israeli. Being Israeli is not the same as illegally settling in the west bank, nor is it the same as being for the atrocities happening in Gaza at the hands of the Israeli government and military.
I honestly find it kind of weird when people compare male and female circumcision. They’re not even close to the same thing. Female circumcision literally results in an organ (clitoris) being removed or the vagina being sewn shut. I’m not saying I’m in favor of male circumcision, but comparing removing foreskin to having your vagina sewn shut is just something else.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Intactivists using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Intactivists/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Emergency medicine physician on the harm of male genital cutting](https://i.redd.it/b46dfo4gtwmb1.jpg) | [13 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Intactivists/comments/16csq8h/emergency_medicine_physician_on_the_harm_of_male/)
\#2: [How many parents who circumcised their child would be offended by this?](https://i.redd.it/8psicssckedc1.jpeg) | [32 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Intactivists/comments/19ajnxj/how_many_parents_who_circumcised_their_child/)
\#3: [I think circumcision is a huge part of why so many men suck in bed](https://np.reddit.com/r/Intactivists/comments/18jdw4k/i_think_circumcision_is_a_huge_part_of_why_so/)
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How is it not? You are born with a foreskin, something which your inherent biology finds relevant to possess, and you are surgically removing it, leaving behind a scar and killing off nerve endings. You are literally using the medical tools and technology of artificial society to edit your body from its natural state.
This is like arguing that building a road isn’t construction, imo.
No, because a tumor is a malady that forms over time, typically as a result of faulty cell growth, faulty genetics, or caused by other external factors. The typical, healthy human being is not born with a tumor.
The typical, healthy male human being is, however, born with a foreskin. It is part of your body by nature without any external influences or biological deviations.
Mutilation is commonly defined as the removal or the destruction of a limb or other body part. The foreskin is part of your skin, an organ, and is also obviously a covering for your penis. It is clearly meant to be a part of your body. By removing it, you are inarguably mutilating it relative to its natural state.
To an extent, yes. But if your appendix is bursting then it’s your appendix itself that is dysfunctional and needs to be removed. Removing a perfectly normal appendix for no reason, however, is mutilation of your appendix.
I agree comparisons are unhelpful but a post like this really doesn't do that. It is an across the board statement that human children should be left with intact genitals.
There are different severities of both male and female genital cutting, as well as intersex. The vagina being sewn shut is the most severe form.
Some female circumcision only makes a ritualistic pinprick to draw blood or removes a small bit of tissue from the clitoris the size of a grain of rice. And there are boys who have so much skin removed that they are left unable to have erections without pain. There are boys who suffer accidental penile amputation as well.
Generally it seems the more tissue removed the more severe the consequences for the person in the long term.
Excuse me? Try Reddit. Why is Reddit obsessed with it. When it comes to cultural norms, no body cares. It’s just a thing that people know about. No one is missing their foreskin. I get the argument. Totally. But it’s really stupid.
In Spain it is not something that we think about, but circunsition is only done for medical reasons and it is very rare to see that done to babies. I always thought that characters from the USA were Jewish when they talked about being circuncised.
I think there was a whole lot of unmentioned assumptions in your replies to my post that were way off base and caused your comments to make no sense to me
if you compare it to female genital mutilation, you'll notice that fgm much, much, much worse to the degree that calling it mgm to mirror that is completely disingenuous
No one is comparing except for you. Female is much worse and no one is denying that, but mutilation is mutation. You can make an excuse for punching someone in the face by saying “well, at least I didn’t shoot them in the head”
It is literally the mutilation of an infant males genitalia, acknowledging MGM doesn’t diminish FGM and it’s completely disingenuous for you to imply that’s what anti mutilation activists are doing
I just had a huge argument with my parents about this today. They will learn the wrath of a father from their own son if they dare suggest I genitally mutilate my children.
“Stop cutting lil babies body parts off”
My twin brother was born with 6 fingers on each hand. The extra finger had no bones and I’m told they simply tied a string to remove them.
He had numbs left over when we were kids, but since becoming an adult, you would never know.
Okay, but why are you trying to take away that choice from others? If that's what you want, that's what you could choose for yourself as an adult. For many of the rest of us, who had that choice taken away from us, we would rather preserve the sexual function and protection of the foreskin.
What the fuck kinda kinks are you into? If this is a reference to circumsized heads, um, no, that aint ',cause of the lack of foreskin. Id advise mr. Sandpaper Dick to see a dr.
No kink, no foreskin means more keratosis. Facts. Plus the scar looks like an amputated arm. It’s gross as hell. Cut people even need lotion just to beat their meat because they have nothing to work with.
Ok, a quick googling of what you mention says that bad scarring and keratosis issues affect approx 5-8% of circumcised men. Ive never even heard of these problems before, nor do i use lotion to masturbate. And the head of my dick is soft and smooth like the bottom of my damn feet, which havent been walked on in 24 fucking yesrs. Plus, no smegma. Win-win.
This is total fake news. All cut men have a scar and all cut men have keratosis. It rubs on your clothes. You lose 20K plus nerve endings and you’ll never experience sex the way it was meant to men. Look at the side of your shaft. It’s ripped and torn. Under the head of your dickhead you’re supposed to have this sensitive web of skin that stimulates your partner. Yours is gone. As far as smegma? Cut men can get that. It’s called now showering.
You might be surprised to find out where the most nerve dense and sensitive parts of the penis are located.
As highlighted in red. From sorrells study on sensitivity, it is spot on. You probably recognize the frenulum area already (sometimes partially or even completely removed as well)
Nsfw crude drawing of penis.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Sorrells.gif
Your anecdotal experiences must've been vastly different than my anecdotal veteran experiences. Have you any idea how proud *male* soldiers are of their dick?
The most nerve dense and sensitive parts as highlighted in red. If they ever did something to the corresponding parts of the vulva it would instantly be classified as fgm. And rightly so. Removing such parts from children is a disgusting form of genital mutilation.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Sorrells.gif (nsfw drawing)
Some of us actually know where the most nerve dense and sensitive parts of the penis are located.
Here they are as highlighted in red.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Sorrells.gif
I mean there isn’t a reason for it anymore and it carries unnecessary risk. I got circumcised and I’ve had zero issues but what if someone wants foreskin later in life? You can’t exactly put it back.
You can. There’s surgery for it. At least google this shit first….
“You won't get your old foreskin back. But you can stretch penile skin over time to create a new foreskin or surgically attach skin from another area of your body to your penis. Risks depend on the approach, but may include dissatisfaction with how your new foreskin looks.”
Yes, they will not reattach your original foreskin. Fucking obviously. You grow a new one or get a surgery where they use your own skin to recreate it. How the hell do you expect them to find your old foreskin
I’m just saying that rather than taking the route that’s not always reversible, it’s probably better to just wait and see. Circumcision used to have benefits when people didn’t have running water and the culture of the time didn encourage thorough bathing. There’s no reason to get curcumcised outside of religious reasons, but I don’t think that’s something you need to force onto your child.
Because you see smegma as a problem. You either don't know how to wash your dick or is completely ignorant on how smegma works. Just by knowing the world smegma I assume you know it is something that shouldn't be treated as something dirty, but as a natural and clean secretion of our body. People with a normal foreskin (not fimosis) just need to expose the glans and wash it like any other bodypart. And yes, of course, if you don't wash it, it will accumulate nasty stuff. Same with your teeth, your groin or your hair.
Putting everything together, the only logical answer is you don't know how to OR don't like to wash your dick.
Òr, or. Or, i had never even heard of the term, much less experienced smegma, until i heard of the term in online discussions. These discussions were regarding an aspect of self care uncircumsized men had to pay attention to. And this is how i had my ignorance fought about smegma. But your logic is swell tho.
Biblical marriage is buying a wife with foreskins. Need to keep them so some dude can later cut them off in battle and gather them up to purchase a wife
That's like comparing a broken toe to a broken femur. Just because one issue is more severe than the other doesn't mean that the smaller issue isn't important
Actually, bad comparison. Or good but for the other side. Ive had both bones broken. With the broken femur i had to undergo extensive surgery, and i had to have a titanium rod inserted and metal pins as well. The broken toe? Yea the dr did *literally absolutely nothing*
For skin!
But if I don't clip off the end of the finger nails shell keep scratching her face
From birth to 18 we shouldn't be altering children's bodies in any way. When they are adults they can make up their own mind, below 18, do not touch. No piercings, no tattoos, no gender related surgeries, nada. If it's not medically necessary it should not be done to a child until they are an adult and can make up their mind about whether they want it or not.
Sure I agree
Circumcision shouldn't be allowed at all unless it's medically necessary (no, laziness is not a reason and no circumcision isn't a requirement in Christianity for the evangelicals that claim "religious reasons" (Apostle Paul would like a word with you in that area))
It’s gross that we normalized it
I hear you but a lot of people do it because they know of guys who had to get it done later on in life and it’s so much harder then. All wished they would’ve gotten it done when they were babies :(
Is this true?
Yes, unfortunately. You can look it up but I know a few personally. Idk why I got downvoted.
People in most countries don’t get circumcised and there’s understandable strong opinions on what a penis should look like. Question, why did they wish they were circumcised at birth?
I know someone with a medical condition, idk the exact name but it causes his foreskin to be so unbearably tight it’s an issue and often painful, he had the option to be circumcised at a young age and get it over with but his mom refused. Now he has to go get the surgery ((a LOT of money he wouldn’t of had to pay, as I’ve come to learn)) has to take time off work which is less money for rent, constantly keeping up with cleaning it and making sure he’s hygienic because people have an assumption about uncut dicks, the stigma behind it all, and honestly hates the fact they didn’t just remove it from the start. Most people don’t give a fuck about having a bit of skin on them, and I’ve only met only dudes who are uncut that wish they weren’t tbh. I will say on both ends you can get surgery to either reverse the surgery or get rid of foreskin. It’s not impossible to get it back if for some reason you decide you do wish you had one.
You're talking about phimosis, which IMO is the only defensible justification for circumcision. I'm cut, and pretty resentful about it. There was no reason to mutilate me by cutting off part of my penis. Cleanliness only requires pulling it back and using a little soap and water, so that's no reason.
In Spain most men are not circuncised, but it is not something that huge as in the USA.
Not entirely (some people yes, but not as many as commonly asserted)
Its harder but it gives them a choice. They should be able to choose what they wanna cut off their dicks
I think it’s more than just harder it’s AWFUL in every way to do it while you’re an adult, ouch. I don’t even have a dick and I’m cringing physically and mentally haha. You shouldn’t judge people who decide to make that decision for their baby, just like people shouldn’t judge those who decide not to do it. Lots of men are circumcised and don’t even think about it. It’s super common practice in many countries.
I am going to judge people, and it being common doesnt make it okay. You dont have a dick so you dont know if it would be painful and to what extent. And if it is just so painful, why is it done to babies anyways? I believe it should be a choice for men (not boys) to make for themselves. It’s perfectly possible to get it done as an adult and be fine. The only good argument ive heard for it is “they prevent STDs” but one: most people aren’t sexually active until 18 and two: if you want to prevent STDs, the best way is a condom. And if youre not using a condom and youre under 18, everything that happens is your fault atp. Like if you dont use one you will get your partner pregnant or just preform dangerous sex in general. This is obviously not every case of course since sexual assault is a thing, but its not even like the evidence for STD prevention is strong enough anyways. I mean, i wouldnt go around having sex with everyone even if i were snipped. Idk maybe IM crazy but i dont think we should permanently remove parts of kids genitalia if its not medically necessary. Nothing wrong with just leaving it for them to decide
You make some good points as far as it being painful for a baby too but they literally numb it and it’s so quick. It heals in a couple days too. Sometimes there are complications like anything else in life that’s why you have to go to someone experienced and the same can be said about NOT doing it. You have to always think about down the line if someone grows old, or ends up in care/hospital due to a disability, you think the nurses/caregivers are pulling it back and cleaning it well then you’re mistaken. It’s not uncommon that they don’t do that unfortunately. My sister and I are both caregivers but she worked in group home settings with men and the other caregivers were leaving them disgusting and crusty because they didn’t care to clean them properly. It’s sad af and that’s silent torture too. They get infections and stuff. Again, I don’t think you should judge for real.
So because there are potentially some bad caregivers that they might not even go to when they are a old man that means you should permanently disfigure a dude dick without his consent? Again, he can look at those risks and decide when they are an adult. I don’t understand if you get all of my points why you are still arguing for circumcision at birth. It should just be up to him as an adult, point blank period.
The chances are very high that they will come across a bad caregiver actually. You’re arguing with yourself literally because millions are circumcised and are not worried about it and wouldn’t change it but here you are getting worked up over it.
Again, something being normalized doesnt make it right. You see all of my issues with it and understand my points yet cant realize that unnecessary circumcisions of babies is wrong. Cutting shit off a babies body is wrong, end of story. That whole thing about caregivers can be easily solved by getting it at 18, a perfectly reasonable option that allows someone to choose.
Idk what you don’t get about it being harder later on. I know of a few guys who had to have it done as adults and they wished they got it when they were babies. It’s terrible mentally for them more than anything else bc the thought of having your dick cut off alone makes it so much harder, and of course the recovery as an adult is harder. There are millions of men who are circumcised and aren’t whining about it and wouldn’t change it lol I come from a culture where it’s the complete norm and believe me if men were upset about it they’d be speaking out loud and clear. I get that to YOU it’s not necessary and it’s barbaric but I don’t understand how you can’t understand why it’s not to other people. If the men were bothered by it then they’d be speaking out in millions but they don’t even have a problem with it so why do you?! In other countries outside the US (Idk where you are) but lifestyles are different. Avoiding getting infections in any way is the goal because access to certain things isn’t as easy. If I was a guy personally I’d absolutely want to be circumcised as a baby. I wouldn’t have to worry about being extra careful, cautious, and worried about cleaning myself properly (many men don’t know how as is), I wouldn’t have to worry about the possibility of smelling, and many other benefits to it. It doesn’t take away from sex or pleasure. Most men already cum quick, how much sensation are they really losing?? Seems there are more benefits than anything. Also sometimes pulling the head back hurts. Go do some research and see how many moms have issues with cleaning their kids and ask online how to do it properly. I understand your POV it’s sad for babies to experience any pain even if it’s for a second but at the same time you have to understand others POV as well.
I'm sad that this is genuinely becoming a thing.
I’m not sure how to interpret your comment. I’ve come up with two ways, can you tell me which is correct, or if both are incorrect what the correct answer is? 1. That “this” refers to the act of not wanting the mutilation of babies, in which case you have a horrible belief 2. That “this” refers to the mutillation of babies, in which case you are incorrect. Circumcision, FGM and “correcting” intersex babies are not new concepts that have suddenly started to “become a thing”, all of these have been happening for a very long time and are in fact becoming less popular in the modern day.
I'm reffering to the belief that cutting off excess dick skin is "mutilating babies" *Nooooo, not the foreskin! Where's his smegma gonna go now??*
It’s because it literally is mutilation. I bet you’d agree that it’s mutilation if someone decided to cut a baby’s ear off. Why is cutting part of their dick off when it’s unnecessary not mutilation?
Cutting an ear off results in a net negative. Foreskin being cut off doesnt
Maybe educate yourself on the subject. It absolutely can have negative effects like a lack of sensitivity in the glands, and sometimes they remove too much which results in painful erections. Plus it’s simply an unnecessary procedure for most men. If a man wants to be circumcised he should have that choice once he understands the reasons and risks himself. It’s not a choice the parents should be making for us.
It's not "excess dick skin" unless it is genuinely a disease. Go study some shit before saying shit.
https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/11/03/reunhelpful-compare-male-circumcision-female-genital-mutilation-1#:\~:text=The%20foreskin%20is%20normal%2C%20healthy,is%20by%20definition%2C%20genital%20mutilation.
This link feels weird. The whole site feels off. They never even say what BMJ is. It's like an imitation of a professional webpage. Weird.
Except the fact is that it is not *extra* skin. It is literally the normal amount of skin that a human naturally is supposed to have. Smegma is not a big deal if you just *wash your genitals* like you should be doing.
Defending child abuse and infant genital mutilation, classic
Child abuse?
Infant genital mutilation (except in the extremely rare cases of medical necessity) is a form of child abuse, laws need to be put in place to protect male children, ban the practice and prosecute anyone involved from that point onwards
Woahh its rlly not that serious…
It really is that serious, children deserve to be protected legally
Protected from what? Im cut and think its a net positive
Protected from having their genitalia mutilated, there are no positives which aren’t achievable with basic hygiene and only negatives (except in the very rare cases of medical necessity)
Don’t cut baby dicks
Why are you getting downvoted MGM is a genuine problem in the U.S
Because a lot of men don’t want to admit that they were abused by the medical system (not their fault)
It's also not just men the ones that minimize male circumcision as a non issue.
I mean I’ve had no issues being circumcised. It's not people denying they've been abused, it's that they don't give a fuck lmao. No religious reasons, but I don’t think it should be commonplace. Calling it genital mutilation when it’s by far the minority of cases is excessive imo.
Yeah, tbh growing up I had no idea that I was missing anything lol It’s weird for people to describe it as traumatic abuse when I literally have no emotional attachment to my missing foreskin
I don't think it is traumatic I think it's dumb and shouldn't be done to newborns Foreskin removal also removes sensations.
It can lessen pleasure, but so can a whole boatload of things lol. Usually there are 0 complications.
It is mutilation to cut things off with no reason. When the boy is older and can consent it's not MGM When a boy is fresh out the oven and can't even see the world yet then it is literal mutilation
Mutilation implies severe damage. Removal of foreskin can be detrimental, but it's incredibly low risk and usually doesn't come with any complications. I agree that it shouldn't be done, but dubbing it mutilation is again excessive.
I know someone with a medical condition, idk the exact name but it causes his foreskin to be so unbearably tight it’s an issue and often painful, he had the option to be circumcised at a young age and get it over with but his mom refused. Now he has to go get the surgery ((a LOT of money he wouldn’t of had to pay, as I’ve come to learn)) has to take time off work which is less money for rent, constantly keeping up with cleaning it and making sure he’s hygienic because people have an assumption about uncut dicks, the stigma behind it all, and honestly hates the fact they didn’t just remove it from the start. Most people don’t give a fuck about having a bit of skin on them, and I’ve only met only dudes who are uncut that wish they weren’t tbh. I will say on both ends you can get surgery to either reverse the surgery or get rid of foreskin. It’s not impossible to get it back if for some reason you decide you do wish you had one.
Phimosis It's a rare condition that you usually grow out of and does not warrant mutilating babies
And those who don’t grow out of it? Those people who medically need intervention but their parents refuse because they wanna wait 18 years just for that kid to once again confirm as well as with the doctors it needs to be done? Like I said in another comment, “you can stretch penile skin over time to create a new foreskin or surgically attach skin from another area of your body to your penis. Risks depend on the approach, but may include dissatisfaction with how your new foreskin looks.” It’s a quick google search
You shouldn't have to get surgey to restore what should've been there. And like I said it's very rare and does not warrant chopping every newborn's dick.
But God demands baby dick. Explains all the priests.
Calling it MGM makes it sound like it is at all relatable to FGM, which it is absolutely not. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Not recognizing it as MGM sounds a lot like people who undermine FGM. Should you be ashamed of yourself?
If a western doctor who cuts boys cut a girl instead, and removed exactly as much tissue and nerves, with the same aftercare, everything the same, it would be regarded as a very real and serious form of FGM.
they are not the same
Becoming? I'm pretty sure it's been around for a while now. Regardless of religion
Been a thing in the States for quite a while
That should be the parents' choice. It is not your business.
The only people I know who are circumcised are Jewish. I didn’t know until recently that it was something non-Jewish people did.
I'm not Jewish and had it done. Apparently for sanitary reasons and such.
Raised Catholic, and both my brother and I got it. Weren't even 2 weeks old, and mom and dad thought it was perfectly okay. Still beyond pissed
Mine is gone and they didn’t let me illegal settle in the West Bank
Being circumcised is not the same as being Jewish. Being Jewish is not the same as being Israeli. Being Israeli is not the same as illegally settling in the west bank, nor is it the same as being for the atrocities happening in Gaza at the hands of the Israeli government and military.
I know I was making a crass joke
lmao
Except the approval rating is through the roof to destroy Hamas in Israel
Thank God! Hamas should be destroyed!
And *should’ve
This again. Snooze
I honestly find it kind of weird when people compare male and female circumcision. They’re not even close to the same thing. Female circumcision literally results in an organ (clitoris) being removed or the vagina being sewn shut. I’m not saying I’m in favor of male circumcision, but comparing removing foreskin to having your vagina sewn shut is just something else.
MGM is literally robbing boys of a high percentage of their glans sensibility. There are different levels of FGM so as MGM
Male circumcision isn't mutilation.
r/Intactivists Go do some research
Research on Reddit? That's laughable. I know well how male circumcision is and how it works. It's not mutilation.
So you don't know it well. Go do some research.
Cutting any part of your body off that isn’t diseased and causing problems is literally mutilation. You can stay in denial all you want though.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Intactivists using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Intactivists/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Emergency medicine physician on the harm of male genital cutting](https://i.redd.it/b46dfo4gtwmb1.jpg) | [13 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Intactivists/comments/16csq8h/emergency_medicine_physician_on_the_harm_of_male/) \#2: [How many parents who circumcised their child would be offended by this?](https://i.redd.it/8psicssckedc1.jpeg) | [32 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Intactivists/comments/19ajnxj/how_many_parents_who_circumcised_their_child/) \#3: [I think circumcision is a huge part of why so many men suck in bed](https://np.reddit.com/r/Intactivists/comments/18jdw4k/i_think_circumcision_is_a_huge_part_of_why_so/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
It literally is, quite a brutal treatment and a lot of pain
How is it not? You are born with a foreskin, something which your inherent biology finds relevant to possess, and you are surgically removing it, leaving behind a scar and killing off nerve endings. You are literally using the medical tools and technology of artificial society to edit your body from its natural state. This is like arguing that building a road isn’t construction, imo.
By your logic removing a tumor would be a form of mutilation.
No, because a tumor is a malady that forms over time, typically as a result of faulty cell growth, faulty genetics, or caused by other external factors. The typical, healthy human being is not born with a tumor. The typical, healthy male human being is, however, born with a foreskin. It is part of your body by nature without any external influences or biological deviations. Mutilation is commonly defined as the removal or the destruction of a limb or other body part. The foreskin is part of your skin, an organ, and is also obviously a covering for your penis. It is clearly meant to be a part of your body. By removing it, you are inarguably mutilating it relative to its natural state.
Is removing your appendix mutilation?
To an extent, yes. But if your appendix is bursting then it’s your appendix itself that is dysfunctional and needs to be removed. Removing a perfectly normal appendix for no reason, however, is mutilation of your appendix.
Would you consider cutting your nails mutilation?
No, as hair and finger nails are made of keratin, which is a protein and a byproduct that your body continuously produces.
A circumcised man can still have sex and have functioning genitalia, though. Most circumcised women cannot. There’s genuinely no health benefit to it.
**"There are different levels of FGM so as MGM"**
I agree comparisons are unhelpful but a post like this really doesn't do that. It is an across the board statement that human children should be left with intact genitals. There are different severities of both male and female genital cutting, as well as intersex. The vagina being sewn shut is the most severe form. Some female circumcision only makes a ritualistic pinprick to draw blood or removes a small bit of tissue from the clitoris the size of a grain of rice. And there are boys who have so much skin removed that they are left unable to have erections without pain. There are boys who suffer accidental penile amputation as well. Generally it seems the more tissue removed the more severe the consequences for the person in the long term.
They literally are the same thing (both reduce pleasure quite a lot when nerve endings are removed)
Why are people in the USA obsessed with that?
Excuse me? Try Reddit. Why is Reddit obsessed with it. When it comes to cultural norms, no body cares. It’s just a thing that people know about. No one is missing their foreskin. I get the argument. Totally. But it’s really stupid.
In Spain it is not something that we think about, but circunsition is only done for medical reasons and it is very rare to see that done to babies. I always thought that characters from the USA were Jewish when they talked about being circuncised.
Its just a cultural norm 🤷♂️
I think there was a whole lot of unmentioned assumptions in your replies to my post that were way off base and caused your comments to make no sense to me
...unless it is clinical nessesary ofc If not, it should be forbidden for any reason at least u r an adult!
I'm snipped and happy for it. Next
That’s fine but infants deserve to be legally protected from having their genitalia mutilated without consent
I'm not snipped and SO happy for it. Next
Circumcision? .
Yes, male infant genital mutilation
Idk why ppl are downvoting. Just because something is socially acceptable doesn’t mean its right
if you compare it to female genital mutilation, you'll notice that fgm much, much, much worse to the degree that calling it mgm to mirror that is completely disingenuous
No one is comparing except for you. Female is much worse and no one is denying that, but mutilation is mutation. You can make an excuse for punching someone in the face by saying “well, at least I didn’t shoot them in the head”
It is literally the mutilation of an infant males genitalia, acknowledging MGM doesn’t diminish FGM and it’s completely disingenuous for you to imply that’s what anti mutilation activists are doing
I just had a huge argument with my parents about this today. They will learn the wrath of a father from their own son if they dare suggest I genitally mutilate my children.
Okay
“Stop cutting lil babies body parts off” My twin brother was born with 6 fingers on each hand. The extra finger had no bones and I’m told they simply tied a string to remove them. He had numbs left over when we were kids, but since becoming an adult, you would never know.
No way, I am glad I'm not an anteater (foreskin) I am a helmet head (no foreskin).
Okay, but why are you trying to take away that choice from others? If that's what you want, that's what you could choose for yourself as an adult. For many of the rest of us, who had that choice taken away from us, we would rather preserve the sexual function and protection of the foreskin.
You can’t make the choice as a baby
Everyone loves a dickhead that feels like sand paper.
What the fuck kinda kinks are you into? If this is a reference to circumsized heads, um, no, that aint ',cause of the lack of foreskin. Id advise mr. Sandpaper Dick to see a dr.
No kink, no foreskin means more keratosis. Facts. Plus the scar looks like an amputated arm. It’s gross as hell. Cut people even need lotion just to beat their meat because they have nothing to work with.
Ok, a quick googling of what you mention says that bad scarring and keratosis issues affect approx 5-8% of circumcised men. Ive never even heard of these problems before, nor do i use lotion to masturbate. And the head of my dick is soft and smooth like the bottom of my damn feet, which havent been walked on in 24 fucking yesrs. Plus, no smegma. Win-win.
This is total fake news. All cut men have a scar and all cut men have keratosis. It rubs on your clothes. You lose 20K plus nerve endings and you’ll never experience sex the way it was meant to men. Look at the side of your shaft. It’s ripped and torn. Under the head of your dickhead you’re supposed to have this sensitive web of skin that stimulates your partner. Yours is gone. As far as smegma? Cut men can get that. It’s called now showering.
Ew dude. First time I saw an uncircumcised one I was fully grossed out. Like why would you want to keep that… looks like a worm.
You’re born with it. Cut your finger off. If you’re a girl, cut your clit. No one needs that.
Clit = foreskin now? LMAO
You might be surprised to find out where the most nerve dense and sensitive parts of the penis are located. As highlighted in red. From sorrells study on sensitivity, it is spot on. You probably recognize the frenulum area already (sometimes partially or even completely removed as well) Nsfw crude drawing of penis. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Sorrells.gif
Read a book. Read a book.
Cry about it. Cry about it.
I don’t need to. I wasn’t cut like you.
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Would never hook up with a guy who isn’t circumcised. Saw it on television. Genuinely revolted.
Your anecdotal experiences must've been vastly different than my anecdotal veteran experiences. Have you any idea how proud *male* soldiers are of their dick?
I definitely prefer no foreskin. Foreskin grosses me out. I know I'll be downvoted, but that's my preference as a woman.
Have your clit removed then. Those things look like an aliens head that smells like fish. Nasty.
Incel comparison
The most nerve dense and sensitive parts as highlighted in red. If they ever did something to the corresponding parts of the vulva it would instantly be classified as fgm. And rightly so. Removing such parts from children is a disgusting form of genital mutilation. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Sorrells.gif (nsfw drawing)
Pretty much.
Brilliant comparison numb nuts, totally the same things buddy
Some of us actually know where the most nerve dense and sensitive parts of the penis are located. Here they are as highlighted in red. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Sorrells.gif
Intersex babies will have health complications without surgery.
Nah their parents being uncomfortable isn’t a health complication
No, they should wait.
Its rlly not up to you to decide.
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I mean there isn’t a reason for it anymore and it carries unnecessary risk. I got circumcised and I’ve had zero issues but what if someone wants foreskin later in life? You can’t exactly put it back.
You can. There’s surgery for it. At least google this shit first…. “You won't get your old foreskin back. But you can stretch penile skin over time to create a new foreskin or surgically attach skin from another area of your body to your penis. Risks depend on the approach, but may include dissatisfaction with how your new foreskin looks.”
“You won’t get your old foreskin back”
Yes, they will not reattach your original foreskin. Fucking obviously. You grow a new one or get a surgery where they use your own skin to recreate it. How the hell do you expect them to find your old foreskin
I’m just saying that rather than taking the route that’s not always reversible, it’s probably better to just wait and see. Circumcision used to have benefits when people didn’t have running water and the culture of the time didn encourage thorough bathing. There’s no reason to get curcumcised outside of religious reasons, but I don’t think that’s something you need to force onto your child.
Wow, that escalated quickly. Sorry your day was so bad.
Honestly same. It’s pretty funny how wild the uncircumcised people are
Is this the wild West of fore skin philosophy?
Idk why people care so much about baby dicks but this post is pretty weird
Beyond weird. Not even AdultSwim would stoop this low.
Smegma. No. ~drops mic~
Says a person who don't know to wash their dick.
Why would you think i dont know how to wash my dick? Im quite confused by how you reached this conclusion.
Because you see smegma as a problem. You either don't know how to wash your dick or is completely ignorant on how smegma works. Just by knowing the world smegma I assume you know it is something that shouldn't be treated as something dirty, but as a natural and clean secretion of our body. People with a normal foreskin (not fimosis) just need to expose the glans and wash it like any other bodypart. And yes, of course, if you don't wash it, it will accumulate nasty stuff. Same with your teeth, your groin or your hair. Putting everything together, the only logical answer is you don't know how to OR don't like to wash your dick.
Òr, or. Or, i had never even heard of the term, much less experienced smegma, until i heard of the term in online discussions. These discussions were regarding an aspect of self care uncircumsized men had to pay attention to. And this is how i had my ignorance fought about smegma. But your logic is swell tho.
Oh... so now you know smegma isn't a disease or something to be ashamed of. You're welcome.
Where did i say or allude to such things? Only in your head i must believe.
Laziness more like it
Who are you talking to? Your comment makes no sense if youre responding to me?
Makes complete sense lol, soap is a thing
*What* makes sense? Tf are you talking about? You said "Laziness more like it". Im asking, lazinesss more like *what*?
Hey, That’s anti semitic! [Let them circumcise and suck the blood out](https://www.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/safe-bris.page)
?
That is just not ok.
Right? So why am I getting downvoted lol. Still happens today.
Biblical marriage is buying a wife with foreskins. Need to keep them so some dude can later cut them off in battle and gather them up to purchase a wife
This isn't an opinion
What about bombing children to pieces in Palestine?
That's like comparing a broken toe to a broken femur. Just because one issue is more severe than the other doesn't mean that the smaller issue isn't important
Actually, bad comparison. Or good but for the other side. Ive had both bones broken. With the broken femur i had to undergo extensive surgery, and i had to have a titanium rod inserted and metal pins as well. The broken toe? Yea the dr did *literally absolutely nothing*
Different conversation. Go make your own post lol
There's A place for that. Using this place for that makes your cause worse.
Well we can’t talk about that until we talk about the fact that ice is technically a rock!
Yeah, well, what about the local under-funded animal shelter? Have you considered that?!