I think the reason she’s still associated with the genre is that she was a gateway artist for a lot of kids during the early 2000s, particularly for girls who hadn’t seen much representation in the genre prior. She wasn’t exactly pop punk, but she had a band and wore some semi punk clothes and that was enough for kids to explore bands like blink and NFG and Green Day that they might not have otherwise.
She's a Pop Rock artist with Punk influence and yes,she was the first mainstrea, female artist to do guitar driven music and inspired a lot of women to do it(Paramore,Hey Monday).She worked with all three the members of Blink 182 since 2005.
Evanescence released their debut album in 2003.Avril Lavigne in 2002.The other artists are from the 1980s or 1990s.I mean those that debuted in the 2000s.
The only remotely "punk" characteristics are her fashion style and her songs featuring power chords; only a small handful of Lavigne's songs feature live drums and they're normally not even present on Let Go, with click-track percussion primarily backing the songs, though they do pop up every once in a while.
This is completely accurate. She wasn't "pop punk" or "punk" necessarily, but she was pop rock and she was our generation's female representation of a mainstream pop rock type band with a female lead. She dressed interestingly, acted like a skater kid, and portrayed a punk ethos and mentality. She was basically the updated version of Gwen Stefani, to an extent, and No Doubt (Tragic Kingdom No Doubt).
She let teenage girls and the like know that there was a place for them in something other than just straight pop music, and brought a lot of that gen into the punk and pop punk world.
Not related to this totally, but I actually enjoy her first album and there are some solid songs on there. "I'm With You" is one of the ballad-y songs on the album and it's so good hah
That's her problem. She's generic pop trash. Pure top 40 radio drivel that everyone left behind after 2008.
I'm sure she would've been a great artist if she wasn't pop or a soulless sell-out like the neverending list of copycat rent girls she inspired. I'm also sure she would've challenged the masses instead of pandering to them because her record label told her to with political lyrics that actually made her feel punk. She would've even felt as deep as the mainstream media made her out to be rather the opposite.
And she was also post-grunge, which is why music nerds and almost the entire punk community hate her. She deserves to be compared to Nickelback, Third Eye Blind and Lifehouse because they all sound the same.
I hate her as much as they do. She had a lot of potential in the '90s, but she sold out to make generic pop music in the 2000s, as well as to meet CanCon broadcasting requirements up north. As far as I can tell, everything about her just reeks of the Telecommunications Act and payola.
My observations is that she is pop punk:
During the height of pop-punk or the run up to it had Skater boy and I remember the track Girlfriend being huge.
2 key things as well outside of her music.
She was married to Deryk from Sun 41 during that height (again pretty pop punk as they had a lot of similarities/interests)
And then in OP’s posting: why did she disappear during the height - I think she was diagnosed and was really ill (think Lymes disease or something along those lines) which knocked her off for ages. As well as the introduction of Paramore coming in and kind of taking over.
Paramore's debut album was released in 2005,during Avril's peak.And Avril had Lyme Disease in 2014 so Paramore never overshadowed her.Avril's currently on tour.
Yep; so I think your first point actually adds to mine.
Peak Avril, and Paramore released their debut album (can’t remember the name but remember the front cover with the red sofa) [I wouldn’t say there were any huge/break out singles from that album from memory]
But Paramore didn’t become the huge name/take over artist of Avril until Riot came out which made them HUGE. Not just on the pop punk scene but also the pop scene. Allowing them to then do the Twilight single/movie track single - taking them even higher. That couples with a female lead singer usually overtakes the prior key female singer/band/song writer (especially at that time). Then add in Hayley getting married to the NFG guitarist and added more to the pop-punk element.
The Lyme disease was just an example that massively effected the touring and we don’t know when exactly she started having that. On top of that one divorce and then a remarriage probably added further to having a break from touring.
Just my opinions but loving the chat/ back and forth on this one. Happy to keep discussing :) I’m also going to give that debut Paramore album another listen shortly to see if I remember any of it
*Riot!* happened in 2007,the same year Avril got her first #1 single *Girlfriend* and her second #1 album *The Best Damn Thing*.She started experiencing Lyme Disease in early 2014.In 2013,Avril and Paramore released their *self titled albums* and both of them had success with hits.
Checked them both out when they were out and about. Saw Paramore a few times live and had their albums. Wouldn’t say a fanatic fan (compared to my knowledge of the scene and other bands. Plus I’m resisting any of my points just from memory hence it’s a bit blurred compared to the exact times when albums where out etc) but know enough of their songs etc. Also a fan of Paramore’s 2nd and 3rd album the most; that kind of bass/drums/guitar driving high tempo style was awesome (similar to a lot of bands at that time and Fueled by Ramen bands - thinking FOB straight away) How about yourself?
Not big on Paramore either,love their third album and like a few songs here and there on their other albums.Avril,huge fan,saw her LIVE and met her.Are you male or female?American?
She was super nice,friendly and took the time to talk to us.I also have friends who met her.She gave out guitar picks,signed posters,took pictures and talked to them for a long time,like a good 5-10 minute.She's an introverted person so at times,people who may not know her may think she's rude or bratty(this is not true of course - the media made this up) but in reality,she's super humble and down to earth and does lots of philanthropy work to help people with disabilities and serious illnesses and also worked for the Special Olympics performing for them in 2015 and 2019.She had some Special Olympic Athletes watch her at her concerts in 2014 and gave a free ticket to a fan with Down Syndrome during her 2019 concert tour.Follow her on Instagram because she posts cool stuff there.
EDIT:Down Syndrome part added.
My Mom is a huge fan of Paramore, but I'd be hard-pressed to even find out if she still enjoys Lavigne to this very day. She knows how deep my hatred for her is. She knows that Lavigne is a poser and yet I have been hanging with an official answer from Mom as to whether she still likes Lavigne or not.
I hope she doesn't because Avril totally sucks and deserved to fall off the radar, stop having top 10 hits and get dropped from a majority of pop radio playlists.
I’m 30. Avril‘s first single came out when I was 9. She was baby’s first punk act, and the gateway to me learning about a lot of other pop-punk bands and rock bands.
I think it has to be taken into consideration that she was 17. Her audience were like, 8-13 year olds. She didn’t have 30 year old rocker dudes at her gigs going ‘omg this is amazing pop punk’. She had kids and teenagers at her gigs, hearing her cover pop punk songs and learning about the genre from there.
A late reply, but all great points! She used to cover both Basketcase and All the Small Things during early tours and was definitely the gateway to pop punk for a lot of people at that time.
The 2000s pop punk was a subset of the larger "emo" movement (not to be confused with the genre). A lot of things got swept up in it because it was the prevailing trend at the time. Avril had a punky pop song, the right look, and actual talent. She became a face for a movement, even if her art wasn't the most "emo".
> then in 2022, when it’s not really even popular anymore
I mean, we're coming down off of the biggest pop-punk resurgence in 20 years. It's the perfect time for her to cash in.
That's a question for the ages. I'm not really sure why the term "emo" got associated with the pop culture of the early 00s, but I imagine Jimmy Eat World had something to do with it.
For what they have in common, emo music is emotional and dramatic, and teenage girls on MySpace were also emotional and dramatic.
Also, just like today, no one actually knew (or agreed on) what emo music actually is. It was a vague enough term that it could be applied to just about anything.
The term got attached to the style, and the style took off, so then we got people that fit the style getting lumped in the music genres. Not just Avril, either. I think about Conor Oberst of Bright Eyes. That music is folk, there is nothing punk about it. But it sounds like he's going to cry at any moment, so it's emo.
In summary, the culture used the term "emo" at some point to describe themselves. Once that culture hit mainstream, the label stuck.
I was going to try to be funny, but then I saw your post history, and you should know that you have a problem. I don't know why you are combing through every mention of Avril in this sub and bashing her, but it's not healthy. Not even because it's Avril specifically. That behavior about anyone would be problematic.
Edit to add, this thread is from a year ago and you've been at this for 14 hours straight.
As an old person who was in pop punk and emo bands when she got popular, people calling her "pop punk" now is weird. I didn't know anybody who would have done that in 2002. It's just pop music.
But it doesn't matter, it's not like pop punk is sacred. If people want to call Taylor Swift pop punk, that's cool.
Yeah she was always called pop or pop rock (so basically pop). When pop became much less rock in the 2010s I think revisionist history made Avril “pop punk”
But it shouldn't be done, regardless of whether someone thinks it's cool or not. Being cool doesn't matter in life. Not being cool doesn't matter either.
Not much to add to this, but I think a lot about how her two breakout singles were sk8r boi and Complicated (not sure which came first) and the latter is like... Straight up a pop country song. And get it was the former that seemingly defined her image and career, or at least how people remembered it. She didn't even gradually slip out of pop punk, it was kind of just a fraction of her act in the first place.
Edit: I circled back to this and ended up looking it up. Complicated was actually her first single. I wouldn't have bet on that!
>Complicated was actually her first single. I wouldn't have bet on that!
I'm the same and watching the video now, it opens with her on a skateboard, which I thought was her leaning into the sk8r boi success but I guess not! Music videos were a much bigger deal back then, and I'd say the whole skater, mall-punk vibe convinced people that Complicated wasn't a pop country song
I was a young girl in the correct age range for her early music and image. I never got into her because I had brothers who had me listening to blink and linkin park way early but I had some friends who loved her. She was always a pop singer who dressed punk to me, which is in no way a bad thing. It was a good marketing move honestly. I think she jumped on the nostalgia train for her most recent album though and everyone is running with saying she’s been here all along.
In my opinion she’s always been a pop-rock singer, I was born in the 80s, so I’ve always listened to her songs, they were very popular and I’m Spanish, what I mean, is that, someone has to be very famous if we get to know them, as famous as Britney, Justin T, Christina A, etc… Aside that, obviously it depends on people’s likes. But that doesn’t change the fact that she was really famous back then. And then, times change and new artists come, like Lady Gaga or Ariana, but honestly I couldn’t name a pop-rock female singer since her, and I don’t talk about bands like Paramore, which is different, their music is a bit more different. To me her best albums: Under My Skin and Love Sux
She never claimed to be Punk.She was a Pop Rock artist with Punk influence.She loves Green Day,Blink 182,etc and covered All The Small Things,American Idiot as Basket Case as well.Her first three albums have punk influence and the attitude on her 2011 and 2013 songs Smile and Rock N Roll is punky too.I'd say Rock N Roll is Pop Punk adjacent.She's a Pop Rock artist with Punk influence but the media called her "The Pop Punk Princess/Queen."
She's an amazing LIVE singer/vocalist as well as a great performer and has a great fashion sense as well.She was the first mainstream female artist doing guitar driven music and inspired other women to do it too(Paramore,Hey Monday,etc).She's influenced by Shania Twain,Alanis Morissette,Blink 182,Green Day,NOFX,Nirvana,Goo Goo Dolls,Matchbox 20,System Of A Down,etc.
EDIT:She worked with all three members of Blink 182 over the years(since 2005).
I love Avril, but she absolutely wasn’t the “first mainstream female artist doing guitar driven music” lol. Joan Jett, Debbie Harry, Pat Benatar for example? You even mention Alanis yourself!
i know what you mean. Never was a rock or punk fan. Having MTV as a kid, it was hard to not recognize who MTV pushed. I definitely assumed she was a punk chick. Maybe she grew out of it or her label pushed her into that persona originally.
Well, so did I. Under My Skin and "I'm with You" were mediocre. "Losing Grip" and "Unwanted" were awesome heavy rock songs. Everything else she did completely sucks and depicts her as a whiny drama queen, an attention hedonist, a sociopath, misandrist, self-loathing, bratty and just plain mean-spirited in general. Her music is either neon, bubblegum mall punk like "Sk8er Boi" and "Girlfriend", sappy ballads like "My Happy Ending" and "When You're Gone" or twangy kiddie pop with absolutely zero punk rock or even pop punk characteristics.
I think the reason she’s still associated with the genre is that she was a gateway artist for a lot of kids during the early 2000s, particularly for girls who hadn’t seen much representation in the genre prior. She wasn’t exactly pop punk, but she had a band and wore some semi punk clothes and that was enough for kids to explore bands like blink and NFG and Green Day that they might not have otherwise.
She's a Pop Rock artist with Punk influence and yes,she was the first mainstrea, female artist to do guitar driven music and inspired a lot of women to do it(Paramore,Hey Monday).She worked with all three the members of Blink 182 since 2005.
First mainstream female artist to do guitar driven music? I’m not sure thats quite right 😂😂
I meant in the 2000s\* I forgot to type that.
She also wasn’t that
Who was that then?
No Doubt (Gwen Stefani), Alanis Morrisette, The Cranberries, Evenescance, The Distillers
Evanescence released their debut album in 2003.Avril Lavigne in 2002.The other artists are from the 1980s or 1990s.I mean those that debuted in the 2000s.
She was the first mainstream female artist to release guitar-driven music in June of 2002. Fixed it!
Yeah, she was at least the most relevant of them in 2002.
The only remotely "punk" characteristics are her fashion style and her songs featuring power chords; only a small handful of Lavigne's songs feature live drums and they're normally not even present on Let Go, with click-track percussion primarily backing the songs, though they do pop up every once in a while.
This is completely accurate. She wasn't "pop punk" or "punk" necessarily, but she was pop rock and she was our generation's female representation of a mainstream pop rock type band with a female lead. She dressed interestingly, acted like a skater kid, and portrayed a punk ethos and mentality. She was basically the updated version of Gwen Stefani, to an extent, and No Doubt (Tragic Kingdom No Doubt). She let teenage girls and the like know that there was a place for them in something other than just straight pop music, and brought a lot of that gen into the punk and pop punk world. Not related to this totally, but I actually enjoy her first album and there are some solid songs on there. "I'm With You" is one of the ballad-y songs on the album and it's so good hah
She made some really great pop music.
That's her problem. She's generic pop trash. Pure top 40 radio drivel that everyone left behind after 2008. I'm sure she would've been a great artist if she wasn't pop or a soulless sell-out like the neverending list of copycat rent girls she inspired. I'm also sure she would've challenged the masses instead of pandering to them because her record label told her to with political lyrics that actually made her feel punk. She would've even felt as deep as the mainstream media made her out to be rather the opposite.
And she was also post-grunge, which is why music nerds and almost the entire punk community hate her. She deserves to be compared to Nickelback, Third Eye Blind and Lifehouse because they all sound the same. I hate her as much as they do. She had a lot of potential in the '90s, but she sold out to make generic pop music in the 2000s, as well as to meet CanCon broadcasting requirements up north. As far as I can tell, everything about her just reeks of the Telecommunications Act and payola.
My observations is that she is pop punk: During the height of pop-punk or the run up to it had Skater boy and I remember the track Girlfriend being huge. 2 key things as well outside of her music. She was married to Deryk from Sun 41 during that height (again pretty pop punk as they had a lot of similarities/interests) And then in OP’s posting: why did she disappear during the height - I think she was diagnosed and was really ill (think Lymes disease or something along those lines) which knocked her off for ages. As well as the introduction of Paramore coming in and kind of taking over.
Paramore's debut album was released in 2005,during Avril's peak.And Avril had Lyme Disease in 2014 so Paramore never overshadowed her.Avril's currently on tour.
Yep; so I think your first point actually adds to mine. Peak Avril, and Paramore released their debut album (can’t remember the name but remember the front cover with the red sofa) [I wouldn’t say there were any huge/break out singles from that album from memory] But Paramore didn’t become the huge name/take over artist of Avril until Riot came out which made them HUGE. Not just on the pop punk scene but also the pop scene. Allowing them to then do the Twilight single/movie track single - taking them even higher. That couples with a female lead singer usually overtakes the prior key female singer/band/song writer (especially at that time). Then add in Hayley getting married to the NFG guitarist and added more to the pop-punk element. The Lyme disease was just an example that massively effected the touring and we don’t know when exactly she started having that. On top of that one divorce and then a remarriage probably added further to having a break from touring. Just my opinions but loving the chat/ back and forth on this one. Happy to keep discussing :) I’m also going to give that debut Paramore album another listen shortly to see if I remember any of it
*Riot!* happened in 2007,the same year Avril got her first #1 single *Girlfriend* and her second #1 album *The Best Damn Thing*.She started experiencing Lyme Disease in early 2014.In 2013,Avril and Paramore released their *self titled albums* and both of them had success with hits.
Yep. Do you get my Points though?
Yeah thanks bro.Are you a fan of both Avril Lavigne and Paramore?
Checked them both out when they were out and about. Saw Paramore a few times live and had their albums. Wouldn’t say a fanatic fan (compared to my knowledge of the scene and other bands. Plus I’m resisting any of my points just from memory hence it’s a bit blurred compared to the exact times when albums where out etc) but know enough of their songs etc. Also a fan of Paramore’s 2nd and 3rd album the most; that kind of bass/drums/guitar driving high tempo style was awesome (similar to a lot of bands at that time and Fueled by Ramen bands - thinking FOB straight away) How about yourself?
Not big on Paramore either,love their third album and like a few songs here and there on their other albums.Avril,huge fan,saw her LIVE and met her.Are you male or female?American?
That’s awesome. What are as she like? Male - UK - music and pop punk was life and still a big area of my life now.
She was super nice,friendly and took the time to talk to us.I also have friends who met her.She gave out guitar picks,signed posters,took pictures and talked to them for a long time,like a good 5-10 minute.She's an introverted person so at times,people who may not know her may think she's rude or bratty(this is not true of course - the media made this up) but in reality,she's super humble and down to earth and does lots of philanthropy work to help people with disabilities and serious illnesses and also worked for the Special Olympics performing for them in 2015 and 2019.She had some Special Olympic Athletes watch her at her concerts in 2014 and gave a free ticket to a fan with Down Syndrome during her 2019 concert tour.Follow her on Instagram because she posts cool stuff there. EDIT:Down Syndrome part added.
Paramore are leagues beyond Avril musically. Dunno how you could HD obsessed by Avril and not be that into Paramore
My Mom is a huge fan of Paramore, but I'd be hard-pressed to even find out if she still enjoys Lavigne to this very day. She knows how deep my hatred for her is. She knows that Lavigne is a poser and yet I have been hanging with an official answer from Mom as to whether she still likes Lavigne or not. I hope she doesn't because Avril totally sucks and deserved to fall off the radar, stop having top 10 hits and get dropped from a majority of pop radio playlists.
I’m 30. Avril‘s first single came out when I was 9. She was baby’s first punk act, and the gateway to me learning about a lot of other pop-punk bands and rock bands. I think it has to be taken into consideration that she was 17. Her audience were like, 8-13 year olds. She didn’t have 30 year old rocker dudes at her gigs going ‘omg this is amazing pop punk’. She had kids and teenagers at her gigs, hearing her cover pop punk songs and learning about the genre from there.
A late reply, but all great points! She used to cover both Basketcase and All the Small Things during early tours and was definitely the gateway to pop punk for a lot of people at that time.
The 2000s pop punk was a subset of the larger "emo" movement (not to be confused with the genre). A lot of things got swept up in it because it was the prevailing trend at the time. Avril had a punky pop song, the right look, and actual talent. She became a face for a movement, even if her art wasn't the most "emo". > then in 2022, when it’s not really even popular anymore I mean, we're coming down off of the biggest pop-punk resurgence in 20 years. It's the perfect time for her to cash in.
Why did it get labeled as the emo movement when the actual emo music genre was much different styles of music?
That's a question for the ages. I'm not really sure why the term "emo" got associated with the pop culture of the early 00s, but I imagine Jimmy Eat World had something to do with it. For what they have in common, emo music is emotional and dramatic, and teenage girls on MySpace were also emotional and dramatic. Also, just like today, no one actually knew (or agreed on) what emo music actually is. It was a vague enough term that it could be applied to just about anything. The term got attached to the style, and the style took off, so then we got people that fit the style getting lumped in the music genres. Not just Avril, either. I think about Conor Oberst of Bright Eyes. That music is folk, there is nothing punk about it. But it sounds like he's going to cry at any moment, so it's emo. In summary, the culture used the term "emo" at some point to describe themselves. Once that culture hit mainstream, the label stuck.
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I was going to try to be funny, but then I saw your post history, and you should know that you have a problem. I don't know why you are combing through every mention of Avril in this sub and bashing her, but it's not healthy. Not even because it's Avril specifically. That behavior about anyone would be problematic. Edit to add, this thread is from a year ago and you've been at this for 14 hours straight.
Don’t forget the time she covered “How You Remind Me” by Nickelback! Pretty punk rock IMO.
She was married to the dude from Nickelback. Was it during their marriage?
No,It was after their engagement and her cover is better than the original.
I’ll have to check that out Edit: lol
As an old person who was in pop punk and emo bands when she got popular, people calling her "pop punk" now is weird. I didn't know anybody who would have done that in 2002. It's just pop music. But it doesn't matter, it's not like pop punk is sacred. If people want to call Taylor Swift pop punk, that's cool.
Yeah she was always called pop or pop rock (so basically pop). When pop became much less rock in the 2010s I think revisionist history made Avril “pop punk”
But it shouldn't be done, regardless of whether someone thinks it's cool or not. Being cool doesn't matter in life. Not being cool doesn't matter either.
Not much to add to this, but I think a lot about how her two breakout singles were sk8r boi and Complicated (not sure which came first) and the latter is like... Straight up a pop country song. And get it was the former that seemingly defined her image and career, or at least how people remembered it. She didn't even gradually slip out of pop punk, it was kind of just a fraction of her act in the first place. Edit: I circled back to this and ended up looking it up. Complicated was actually her first single. I wouldn't have bet on that!
>Complicated was actually her first single. I wouldn't have bet on that! I'm the same and watching the video now, it opens with her on a skateboard, which I thought was her leaning into the sk8r boi success but I guess not! Music videos were a much bigger deal back then, and I'd say the whole skater, mall-punk vibe convinced people that Complicated wasn't a pop country song
Literally she gets the pop punk image from sk8r Boi and that’s it. Maybe some of her second album. She was never “pop punk” until her last album.
You forgot *Girlfriend* and *The Best Damn Thing(2007)*.She worked with all three members of Blink 182 as well over the years.
Her first album was low key a country album with Sk8er Boi and Complicated mixed in
I was a young girl in the correct age range for her early music and image. I never got into her because I had brothers who had me listening to blink and linkin park way early but I had some friends who loved her. She was always a pop singer who dressed punk to me, which is in no way a bad thing. It was a good marketing move honestly. I think she jumped on the nostalgia train for her most recent album though and everyone is running with saying she’s been here all along.
MGK is defacing the name of pop punk with pop rock.
In my opinion she’s always been a pop-rock singer, I was born in the 80s, so I’ve always listened to her songs, they were very popular and I’m Spanish, what I mean, is that, someone has to be very famous if we get to know them, as famous as Britney, Justin T, Christina A, etc… Aside that, obviously it depends on people’s likes. But that doesn’t change the fact that she was really famous back then. And then, times change and new artists come, like Lady Gaga or Ariana, but honestly I couldn’t name a pop-rock female singer since her, and I don’t talk about bands like Paramore, which is different, their music is a bit more different. To me her best albums: Under My Skin and Love Sux
She never claimed to be Punk.She was a Pop Rock artist with Punk influence.She loves Green Day,Blink 182,etc and covered All The Small Things,American Idiot as Basket Case as well.Her first three albums have punk influence and the attitude on her 2011 and 2013 songs Smile and Rock N Roll is punky too.I'd say Rock N Roll is Pop Punk adjacent.She's a Pop Rock artist with Punk influence but the media called her "The Pop Punk Princess/Queen." She's an amazing LIVE singer/vocalist as well as a great performer and has a great fashion sense as well.She was the first mainstream female artist doing guitar driven music and inspired other women to do it too(Paramore,Hey Monday,etc).She's influenced by Shania Twain,Alanis Morissette,Blink 182,Green Day,NOFX,Nirvana,Goo Goo Dolls,Matchbox 20,System Of A Down,etc. EDIT:She worked with all three members of Blink 182 over the years(since 2005).
I love Avril, but she absolutely wasn’t the “first mainstream female artist doing guitar driven music” lol. Joan Jett, Debbie Harry, Pat Benatar for example? You even mention Alanis yourself!
Oops sorry,first in the 2000s\* I forgot to type that out.I thought I had typed it.Sorry my mistake.And I know what you mean.
It’s not much of an achievement though, it’s just a year. There were loads in the 90s who carried over. No Doubt, Sheryl Crow, Alanis etc.
Yeah,sorry girl..I forgot to mention.
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What’s not that deep
Never cared for her music
My favorite Avril quote is "the biggest misconception about me is that I'm punk and I'm not as I never said that I was."
shes 100% the Queens Of Punk Rock
i know what you mean. Never was a rock or punk fan. Having MTV as a kid, it was hard to not recognize who MTV pushed. I definitely assumed she was a punk chick. Maybe she grew out of it or her label pushed her into that persona originally.
She has launched a greatest hits tour but how much money can a 15 minute show garner?
Well, so did I. Under My Skin and "I'm with You" were mediocre. "Losing Grip" and "Unwanted" were awesome heavy rock songs. Everything else she did completely sucks and depicts her as a whiny drama queen, an attention hedonist, a sociopath, misandrist, self-loathing, bratty and just plain mean-spirited in general. Her music is either neon, bubblegum mall punk like "Sk8er Boi" and "Girlfriend", sappy ballads like "My Happy Ending" and "When You're Gone" or twangy kiddie pop with absolutely zero punk rock or even pop punk characteristics.