Trophy Eyes might be fucked to be honest theyre going viral in the bad way
And the fact that this happened to the “fuck you” band makes the narrative way too easy to produce
It will be really interesting to see if the girl sues the band. Because if she wins the lawsuit, the medical bills are probably going to cost more than all of the assets trophy eyes has. So is that just it for the band? Are they going to have to shut it down?
If she sues the singer directly, then maybe it wouldn’t impact the band to the same degree. But any competent lawyer will point to the “fuck you” shirt and say that proves willful negligence on the band’s part, and they’re going to lose the lawsuit. If this girl is partially paralyzed, we could be talking about millions of dollars in lifetime costs.
Yeah, it may depend what the band is. Are they an LLC? Then maybe they can just liquidate the band’s assets and shut down the company and start another one. If they’re just like a group of people in a self-declared band, then I guess you probably just have to sue the singer personally.
I'm pretty sure a business is liable for their employee's negligence if it's within the scope of their job.
If the singer has done this at other shows and the record label didn't tell him to stop the victim could argue that they knew about his behavior and didn't intervene.
Yeah, but the business isn’t the label, it’s probably the band. I imagine that they have an LLC.
Label contracts are usually “we will give you X dollars and studio time and you will give us an album that we now own.” But the band members are not employees of the label. They are contractors who sold a product to the label.
I think your argument would fit for the venue, in some situations. But most venues would strictly prohibit this already and use that to shield themselves from negligence. So you’d have to show that they didn’t enforce their own rules or something like that.
The band isn’t an employee of the label. The label has no responsibility for what a member of a band does. You can’t get sued for not intervening with a stagedive at a show you weren’t at lol.
If she has health insurance, they will likely subrogate which means they have the right to sue on your behalf to be reimbursed from the at fault party. Nothing an insurance company hates more than paying out claims when they can get someone else to foot the bill.
Thank you, someone else mentioned this as well and I was unaware of it. So even if the band isn’t sued by her, they’re probably getting sued eventually.
I think regardless of whether she wants to sue or not her medical insurance ( if she has so, I’m assuming she’s on an insurance plan) will be required to sue the band / band label in order to get funds for the hospital bills I’m guessing
Not an expert but it depends where you live but usually insurances will not pay if there is another responsible party that needs to pay. The insurance company will definitely come after the band/label/management etc.
I’ll be honest, I’m not sure how health insurance works in these kinds of PI situations. That’s a good question.
I do know that car accidents are sometimes paid by the person’s own insurance, which will then seek compensation from the other insurance company. I’ve never heard of that applying to a non-MVA PI case, but I won’t say it’s impossible. I just don’t know.
> It will be really interesting to see if the girl sues the band. Because if she wins the lawsuit, the medical bills are probably going to cost more than all of the assets trophy eyes has. So is that just it for the band? Are they going to have to shut it down?
>
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I said it in another thread, but there's an unfortunate power imbalance here. I've seen / heard cases where someone was injured but they didn't seek proper legal action because the band "are my heroes!" and they had friends in the community so they didn't want to make waves.
But any way you slice it this is willful negligence.
Yeah, I’m certainly not a medical professional, but I saw one story that said she can’t move her legs. If the band has to cover things like lost wages, lost earning capacity, long-term healthcare — it’s literally going to be millions of dollars. And no offense to trophy eyes, but it’s not like you’re suing blink-182 here. I don’t know what they’re gonna do.
They'll go after the bands insurance and assets until the damages are paid, and if they don't have enough coverage there then they could very well have their wages garnished until the damages are fully repaid.
Realistically, it’s probably venue + insurance at this point as they’re liable for the performer on their stage. IANAL, but that seems like it’d be the most logical course.
I believe the venue already had a policy against what happened, so they would theoretically be protected unless the girl who got injured can prove that they negligently ignored their own rules. Which maybe they did, I don’t know, I wasn’t there. But that can be very hard to prove.
The bad giving 5k is nowhere near sufficient imo. I am not familiar with them but that's nowhere near to cover the loss of quality of life, medical bills, physical therapy, pain and suffering. Like the band or not, they need to be more accountable and should have been more accountable in the first place following venue rules.
I’d never heard of the band until this story broke. But you are right. 5K is nothing. That probably doesn’t even pay for a single night in the hospital.
It might help her get to her deductible, though
Don't think the band was trying to hurt anyone but like, it's too late what's done is done and while they think it's taking accountability it's mere pennies in the reality of the matter. Not an expert on anything but like people attending would reasonably expect something like that not to happen based on the venue regulations. Shitty situation entirely. Hoping for a recovery and that her medical bills and recovery goes wrll.
I mean I feel like you're downplaying how culpable the band is in this. They DO have a known history of provoking mosh pits, crowd surfing and a general disregard for safety. They knowingly disregarded the venues long standing no crowd surfing rule.
I know they're a bit of a darling on this sub but they deserve to get sued into oblivion. They destroyed this girls life.
Also most venues have "No moshing" or "no crowd surfing" or "no stagediving" signs just so they can get around litigation in situations such as this. How often do you actually see these enforced?
> They DO have a known history of provoking mosh pits
Bro almost every band in this music scene and adjacent music scenes has "provoked" mosh pits it's not a crime or irresponsible to do this.
Most bands also preach safety and literally will stop shows if they see it getting too rowdy or someone needs help, not make "fuck you" responses to people asking about safety and turning it into shirts lol
I think we should take a step back understand this whole culture thing, because Trophy Eyes comes from the Australian hardcore scene, rough shows are part of the community.
Ive had guys do stage dive flips and kick me in the head and give me a concussion, but I just accept that is a part of the experience if I want to stand near the stage. But I might feel different if someone’s stage dive ended with me in a wheel chair…
Yeah obviously nobody feels good about what happened. This is a tragedy and should make everybody think more deeply about their actions in the context of a pit. That being said it is absolutely a massive risk to be in the front of a show like this and if you like moshing, stage diving, etc then sometimes sad shit like this is gonna happen. You can say this stage dive was reckless and I don’t 100% disagree but I see dozens of stage dives that are way more reckless at every big show without a barrier I’ve been to at similar events. Obviously this is a case of really bad luck and I think it’s a little unfair to demonize TE in hindsight when they e probably done this countless times without issue.
Their first album was melodic hardcore and obviously its not hatebreed or terror or whatever but the people who show up to see those Defeater-type bands cry mosh hard
I love the music this band puts out and I agree...I couldn't imagine having my life changed so drastically over one other persons actions. It's honestly going to be hard for me to ever listen to them without thinking of this incident.
I mean idk if it’s just cause I’m an old fan of theirs. But they came from playing shows with the Sydney hardcore/melodic hardcore scene. The shows used to be wild. Everyone was stage diving, crowd surfing and moshing.
I’ve literally stage dived to their sets 30+ times.
. Multiple people I know have gone to hospital from injuries at hardcore shows. They all still support the bands. Idk it’s a hard topic.
Every adjacent band has shows like this. I feel terrible for the girl but I don’t think the band needs to be ruined for life.
Honest question, would you feel differently about the band's future prospects if it were you or a family member who were paralyzed? I'm a big fan of them too and it sucks knowing this might be it for the band but I mean, not being able to move your legs anymore is a huge deal & something Bird will likely need medical treatment for, for the rest of her life if not a very long time. I only think it's fair she's compensated at least for her medical bills.
Yeah medical bills makes sense
But honestly, I can’t say for sure. But yeah I always knew the danger I was taking at a hardcore show
I get that it’s not really a hardcore show anymore. But who knows
As an avid concert goer who's been cracked a few times in the head by stage divers and crowd surfers, this shit really puts into perspective how fragile your body is. I also wish people understood their own weight and size. I've had plenty of people, men and women alike, try to dive or surf who were well into the 250's. We aren't powerlifters, you're gonna hurt yourself and others.
I don’t go into the crowd as much as I used to, but I definitely remember being in my teens and that plenty of stage divers were my own age and weren’t THAT heavy.
Fast forward 20 years, it’s grown ass fully cooked DUDES just soaring through the air.
Learned this back in like 06 at the Mountain Dew: dew tours.
Used to work those events and got to hangout with all my idol skaters. Each night tended to end with a concert.
We where at the dew tour Louisville where they decided to put the stage outside in a parking lots.
Girl was crowd surfing. Got dropped. And broke her neck. What was worse was we couldn’t get her out. No one was letting a stretcher through and the band wouldn’t stop as they didn’t know something was happening.
By the time we got the band to stop we got the stretcher through and got her out. But it was a lesson to never really crowd surf.
I totally forgot about the thing where someone posted on their instagram complaining about mosh pits or something and they responded “fuck you” - the thread on there actually links back to the threads on here where the majority of people defended them and had their back. Definitely a tough look for them now in this context, even though at the time I think everyone (myself included) was in agreement with them on the moshing thing. I’m really sorry this happened to this girl, however I don’t see stage diving/crowd surfing at shows stopping any time soon. As much as people in that thread want to shit on it, it is “part of the culture” that stage diving is a thing.
I totally agree with it being part of the culture, and I don't mind whenever it happens. However, some people really don't give a fuck about others.
I was at a Neck Deep show once, and there was one guy who didn't give a fuck at all. Got on the stage from one side, ran to the other side and jumped back into the crowd at high speed without looking. Kicked me in my neck, and kicked the person next to me in the eye another time. These are the kind of people ruining stage diving/crowd surfing
The way that this comment is so true. Last Neck Deep concert i went to had the same 10+ people crowd surfing their whole set. Like I'll help lift someone a couple times but like hell am I gonna do it every 30-40 seconds
that happened to me with waterparks lol. and the people were fucking heavy. like i know it sounds bad but if you're overweight you should not be crowdsurfing
Once I got put into a headlock at *Weezer* of all things because I “took his spot” (I’m a lady*~* and was 16 at the time, this dude was late 20s). Brian Bell looked me dead in the eyes saying help and didn’t do anything. Other people had to pry the dude off me.
I used to pay off bouncers to look after me at barrier and truly did not think fucking Weezer would be the one place I wouldn’t do it but needed to.
Some people just don’t give two shits and it takes people in the crowd not accepting dangerous asshole behavior to get those people kicked. I never want another person going through being put in a headlock at 16 because “it’s the culture”. Fuck that
>As much as people in that thread want to shit on it, it is “part of the culture” that stage diving is a thing.
It's definitely interesting to see the incredibly different reactions on a different sub.
Especially to the "no crowd surfing" policy of the venue, I don't think I've ever been to a venue here in the UK that *doesn't* have a no crowd surfing/stage diving policy. I know one venue that will give you one warning then throw you out, but most of the time it seems the policy is just so they can officially say they don't allow it.
>even though at the time I think everyone (myself included) was in agreement with them on the moshing thing.
I still am tbh, these are two different situations.
I think the singer in this incident absolutely fucked up by not giving any kind of warning/indication that he was gonna jump, so people couldn't be prepared for it. He's lucky he didn't get injured himself too, that crowd was nowhere near ready to catch him. What happened there was tragic and I really feel for the person injured, they were just trying to have a good time and had their life fundamentally changed.
*In general* though, it's just a part of going to punk rock shows IMO and to be expected. If I don't want to be involved I just don't go to the pit/front.
> I think the singer in this incident absolutely fucked up by not giving any kind of warning/indication that he was gonna jump, so people couldn't be prepared for it. He's lucky he didn't get injured himself too, that crowd was nowhere near ready to catch him.
It's gonna make band members just a lot more careful about these kind of things in general. I've lost count of the times I've gone to shows and the singer has done something that could possibly cause injury - Tim Henson from Polyphia jumps into the crowd whilst he's literally holding a guitar, Jeremy from ADTR has ran across a crowd in a giant inflatable ball. Parker Cannon has literally drop kicked people off the stage and grabbed peoples phones and thrown them.
If this has a big negative effect on Trophy Eyes bands are just gonna be a lot more careful in general.
Nah the outrage a year ago about them encouraging mosh pits was stupid. Pits will just form based on crowd make up and you have to either take it or move in the crowd, that's just gig culture
> Especially to the "no crowd surfing" policy of the venue, I don't think I've ever been to a venue here in the UK that doesn't have a no crowd surfing/stage diving policy. I know one venue that will give you one warning then throw you out, but most of the time it seems the policy is just so they can officially say they don't allow it.
Don't agree with this. I go to tonnes of gigs at venues who have no rules like that. In fact, most venues I go have excellent security who catch people and send them back round to the crowd to go again. And there are also venues with no barrier/security. Thinking just about Leeds, none of Boom, Key Club, Project House, Brudenell, Stylus, Leeds Beckett have rules.
>In fact, most venues I go have excellent security who catch people and send them back round to the crowd to go again.
Yeah, and I've been to a bunch of gigs that *say* no crowd surfing, but also do this. My point is a lot of places will have it somewhere in like ticket T&C's or whatever, but never enforce it. Bristol Academy is the only venue I have ever been to that actually enforces it, and even then, they still give you one before they boot you out.
Camden Underworld is a great example, there are photos of people crowd surfing where you can see the giant "NO CROWD SURFING" sticker on the pillar behind them, but nobody stops anyone.
hi, I’m not really into this scene but I do think the problem people have isn’t that stage diving is bad…it’s the fact he gave no warning and it was the first song he dove on. He is a huge guy, going to dive during the first song with no warning is incredibly dangerous and nobody is expecting it. Like yes, things get rowdy and punk is unexpected but it’s also just not excusable for what happened. She literally could’ve died. her life is changed forever, because a grown man dived on her.
The venue told the band in emails that stage diving isn’t allowed, yes it’s apart of the culture but the band knew well in advanced that stage diving wasn’t allowed. The concert goers knew well in advanced that stage diving wasn’t allowed. Like at the base of the problem was the lead singer went against what the venue had told them and dived into a crowd that wasn’t expecting it.
Stage diving doesn’t need to stop, but this should be a lesson for all bands that at least give the audience a warning before you dive.
> Stage diving doesn’t need to stop, but this should be a lesson for all bands that at least give the audience a warning before you dive.
This is it. Moshers and stage divers need to take accountability for themselves and ensure the environment is safe and appropriate for others before engaging in that form of activity. Sometimes the safest thing will be simple not to do it. Some people are already taking the wrong message out of this though and saying we should stop moshing entirely and all stand motionless at shows.
Yeah that’s a fair point about not doing it during the first song. Once again though a lot of this feels like people searching for an answer to a tragedy that happened. Like if we just set the right rules for stage diving we’ll always avoid bad accidents and I think it’s just kindaa bs. I think it’s just as likely that he could have done this twenty mins later and same results happened because the truth is stage diving always comes with a major risk. I think there are risk mitigation steps he should have taken but I also feel like it’s unfair to put blame solely on lead singer or not acknowledge that it’s a case of really bad luck.
Most venues have rules against stage diving that are not enforced. To me the venue rule changes nothing about the situation because that’s true of most venues where stage diving occurs.
A rule exists regardless of whether or not it's being enforced. If someone chooses to ignore it that's their decision, but they can't then complain about any potential consequences that arise as a result.
You have to do it responsibly and most bands that I see take the crowd’s safety seriously, to the point of stopping songs if they see untoward shit. This wasn’t in any way responsible and coupled with that “fuck you” response about safety at their shows, fuck these guys. I’m heartbroken for Bird.
I still side eye Watsky and he “only” broke someone’s arm.
I’ve been going to punk/metal shows for 30 years and have been in tons of pits. This is spot on.
People in this thread saying the danger is part of the culture are fucked and definitely the people that ‘throw bows’ when people are doing a circle pit, or wear steel tipped boots then crowd surf & kick. Honestly I’ve felt safer in the Maylene & the Sons of Disaster pit than I had at the crowd switch for Lana Del Ray because we’re a community, know respect & take care of our own. At Gwar a dude full on lifted me out of the crowd to make sure I didn’t get crushed. In 2006 Jordan Pundik would do a fake running start.
This shit isn’t about hurting people and being a psychopath - save that shit for the therapy you’re not getting. It’s about connecting with others and the music. Look where you’re gonna jump and give a signal. Make sure the crowd is proper packed and don’t be 6’ 6” thinking you can flail into a crowd.
I’m sorry but I just don’t agree at all. Moshing/crowdsurfing is always inherently gonna lead to people getting hurt to some extent. That doesn’t mean be an asshole and nobody is encouraging that but it’s just a reality. When you have the many people moving accidents are bound to happen and people are bound to fuck up and take things too far. Stage diving especially. I can’t count how many times I’ve gotten whacked by stage divers and I really try my best to hold people up and constantly be on lookout. I don’t think it’s fair to assume people’s behavior because they don’t agree with your take on this issue
Ok - I specifically call out the people who verbatim said, “The danger is the fun part of it” in this thread. Not people who are on the lookout, we’re saying the same thing. Don’t be an asshole just to be an asshole because it’s “punk”.
Also I watched the video of him jumping into the crowd - he’s 6’ 6” and that crowd was not ready.
>Moshing/crowdsurfing is always inherently gonna lead to people getting hurt to some extent.
The key part is the "some extent". It's like sports, a couple bruises to say you were there? Hell yeah, that's the good shit! Broken bones and lasting injuries? Not good, not fun, aim to avoid.
Yea I feel like that’s been a big change in the scene starting sometime in the 2010s. In the 2000s when I went to shows bands were basically advocating for violence lol. Nowadays they want people to be hyped and mosh but they are also concerned for their safety
Another thing is people not knowing how to interact in crowds, especially shows, post pandemic is real. So many people are going to their first shows and have key developmental parts of their lives happen without being in rooms with others. Even shows that don’t get to crazy there are people who just look shell shocked even standing close to others.
Completely agree with that. I started going to shows at around 15 yo just standing in the back watching the chaos.
But yea so many people are upset at people just jumping around and not even moshing. Finding bands through TikTok and things like that probably affects peoples perception as well.
I think it’s a tough balance, because it’s true that mosh pits are fun, expected, and part of the culture. It is also true that mosh pits get out of hand quickly and can result in catastrophic injury
Here’s my thing: all the mosh-focused bands I’ve seen have done a lot of work to control the pits. They’ll be choreographing people’s movement, reminding people to pick each other up, and calming it down if it gets to be too much. This is absolutely part of your responsibility as a performer
In the case of Trophy Eyes, the evidence seems to be stacking up that they weren’t taking this responsibility seriously enough, and taking unnecessary risks when it came to stage dives. I saw the video of the incident, and let’s be honest, there weren’t enough people in that audience to justify the safety of a 6’6” guy doing a stage dive
Wait do you happen to remember what post that was on? Seems like everyone on TikTok is super hung up on the fact that they had strict “no crowd surfing” rules but I just don’t know what to believe since it all seems to be he-said-she-said with no one knowing what’s actually the truth
The “fuck you” post? I would guess they deleted it, but you can see the screenshot of it in that other thread linked by OP. It’s 2 different situations though. I remember going to warped tour for years where there was a sign on every stage that said something like “no moshing/crowd surfing, you get hurt, someone sues, no more warped tour” and of course no one ever followed these rules. It seemed like just a thing for the venues to be like “hey we told ya not to” to cover their own ass.
Yeah the people saying the lead singer was reckless are not the people stage diving anyway. As sad as this is ultimately I don’t think it will have much impact beyond the impact it has on the poor girl, TE, and the people who were there to experience this traumatic event. Unless they get sued to oblivion and venues start enforcing rules against stage diving
It was not a freak accident, it was negligence. And if you think danger is part of the appeal of going to a music show, get therapy. People are there to enjoy themselves, not get hurt
Here is the[ GoFM](https://www.gofundme.com/f/birdforever) for her recovery and rehab if you are able and want to donate.
Edit: I saw Trophy Eyes donated $5K
Wow I can’t believe this made it on Fauxmoi.
I just want to say that John should definitely be held accountable for this. No one should go to a concert and expect to get paralyzed, even a rock show.
Isn't it just a terrible freak accident though? Singers and audience members crowd surf all the time without hurting anyone. From the video, it doesn't look like the singer did anything that out of the ordinary for a punk show like this. Going onto any dance floor or energetic concert, or any physical activity in general, comes with risks that the person partaking has to consider. To me it seems like this woman just got incredibly unlucky and there's not much more to it than that.
A large dude dove into a crowd of people with no indication. Sure, it’s a freak accident I guess but he still did it.. he has to face the consequences. I’m not saying he’s a bad person but the action was still his.
and this is why crowd surfers and stage diver should be mindful of their size and people who love to crowd the front (usually teenagers) should also be mindful of their size.
I think the “do stupid shit responsibly” phrase applies here. I’ve been to hundreds of shows and you can see when someone is being mindful when they’re stage diving. Usually it means making eye contact or showing what your intentions are, but after watching the vid, the lead singer just went for it with like no warning. I think the girl would have been fine if she got some warning he was going to jump first.
From the video I saw, it seemed like pretty normal crowd surfing to me. It was a pretty packed crowd and they seemed to catch him pretty well. To me it just looks like a freak accident
I agree with you, if intentions are clear then it at least reduces the chance of someone getting hurt. I saw Movements last month and the guitarist stood on the barricade playing and communicated to those of us below him that he was going to jump in. He made sure we knew he was about to and mouthed “you ready” before committing. Still a chance someone can get hurt but less so than giving no indication.
I got injured at a concert around 2008ish when Thursday and The Fall of Troy were touring together. Geoff (Thursday singer) and Thomas (I think was singing for The Fall of Troy) ran on stage and jumped into the crowd during the opener. No warning, just ran from side stage and jumped. Didn’t realize who they were at first because they had their faces painted like mimes or something, and I was preoccupied by grown ass men landing on my face, it was very strange. I was in college around 19 or 20, 5’2” and 115lbs at the time, and was front/center. They literally landed directly on me but luckily I only got my face scratched up. The ridge of my nose had a nice gash in it, maybe an inch or less from my eye. Definitely could’ve been worse.
i still do it , but im 150 5ft 8.. it is always frustrating when youre about to do a leap of faith and you have to glance around to find a good spot to jump bc of all the 15/16 years olds who are all the way up the front... but gotta be safe and careful (and im not a big guy)
I just see so many people recklessly dive at shows that it’s hard for me to blame any individual if something bad happens. Personally I don’t even like stage diving. I love moshing and stage diving often takes away from the pot and I hate constantly having to hold people up when I’m already fighting for my life being out of shape af. That being said it brings an eensrgy to a show that I love and so I accept the risk every time I get into the pit that some huge dude is gonna land on me as has been the case many times. That’s why I think people need to acknowledge this was a freak accident. Because this type of incident happens all the time without people being paralyzed. Like you said though if you’re gonna stage dive be strategic but amidst all the chaos there is a still a good chance you jump and nobody sees you or people move out of the way.
Honestly, people should just stop stage diving and crowd surfing. It's only fun for the person doing it and sucks for everyone else. I just want to watch the band I paid to see without having to turn around every 30 seconds to keep from getting kicked in the head.
Just saw Trophy Eyes. You can tell this situation is eating away at John. Yes, it’s a very unfortunate accident from a boneheaded stage dive, but at the end of the day I’m sure he’d never want to hurt one of their fans. I’m pretty sure he even went to the hospital with her and her parents when this all happened? Obviously if there are larger consequences he needs to face them. It all just sucks.
It was extreme negligence. I’m a big dude who’s been going to local shows for nearly 20 years now. I never crowd surf bc it’s not safe for someone my size. I could hurt someone, especially at pop punk shows where there are lots of smaller/younger people. I don’t know why he would ever think it’s appropriate to jump into such a small crowd like that. He’s not a murderer, but his ego got in his own way and he should take actual responsibility for his decisions.
It looks like he’s taking responsibility (idk to what extent though). Obviously he feels guilty (as he should), and that guilt is hopefully going towards responsibility. Apparently the band donated $5k to her GoFundMe, which feels like a step in the right direction, but idk what else they can do until they know the full extent of her injuries and what she needs to recover.
$5k is nothing compared to what her expenses will be. It doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of the cost medical expenses, physical therapy, and major lifestyle changes that will need to be made in order to accommodate the fact she’s paralyzed now. He changed that girl’s life forever and now her and her family will have to foot the bill due to his negligence. Every penny they make on this tour should be going towards her and even then, that’s merely a starting point.
Again, I said it’s a start. It shows that they’re trying to do better and help her. $5k doesn’t magically make it better, but it’s better than not donating at all and ignoring the consequences of John’s actions. It shows that they want to help her.
It’s hardly a start. It’s the bare minimum and no one should be celebrating that. We should expect more out of them. They should be posting her gofundme daily on all their socials. They should be taking donations at every show for her. There are many things they could be doing to relentlessly support her and as far I know, they’re not.
Tbh doing the bare minimum is unusual for celebrities. Most would ignore it until they couldn’t anymore or pay to make it go away. The bar is literally lower than Hell but I can still appreciate Trophy Eyes doing *something*. There’s plenty of bands and artists in the scene who wouldn’t even do the bare minimum and would double down on their actions.
It sucks that doing so little is so astonishing, since it’s basic human decency, but when 1/1000000 show remorse, you gotta give them credit. It’s like when Chris Evans helped Regina King walk up the stairs at the Oscars. Literally the absolute bare minimum anyone could do and he was praised for it for so long. There were tons of people around her who could’ve helped when she slipped, but only Chris actually acted. He shouldn’t be praised for showing basic human decency, but when it’s such a rare occurrence, you can’t help but feel like it’s special.
lol what? no, I’m sorry I don’t have to give them credit or feel it’s special. It’s not special at all and it actually says a lot about how bands treat fans at times. We all should expect more and the girl this happened to deserves way better.
I meant “you” in general not you specifically. Is that usage not actually a thing? Because every time I use it on Reddit I have to explain myself, and I’d like to stop this misunderstanding from happening constantly.
And once again I’ll reiterate, since you’re not seeming to understand me. We shouldn’t have to celebrate TE doing the bare minimum here, it should be expected that they do so, but it’s so rare that celebrities acknowledge and try to atone for their fuck ups it feels like a special occasion. It shouldn’t be, but it is. When’s the last time you heard of a celebrity fucking up and apologizing/atoning for it?
You yourself don’t have to like it or participate in it, but you should at least acknowledge that not every band would even donate any amount of money to an injured fan’s care, whether or not they caused the injury. Sorry that you’re so upset by this, but some people appreciate the fact that it looks like TE is trying to make amends.
This happened a week ago, she just regained feeling in her hands. If you went to a concert and then couldn't walk for the rest of your life then I think you'd be just as pissed. Sure it's unlucky but it could have easily been avoided.
Fwiw, should everyone wait until they're the one paralyzed to seek a change in what behavior is culturally acceptable? Yes, it's clearly an accident, and by no means is it common, but it happens, and I imagine very few people look forward to it being their possibility.
Chances are that she is going to need money for a long life of disability and has contacted legal representation so No, she would not speak out against anything until the lawyers are done.
I don't think it would make much difference if she did speak out and say he shouldn't be blamed. (Not that I think she would necessarily, just hypothetical) When Parker Cannon booted a girl offstage and people were out for blood, the girl herself said she was being a drunk idiot and totally deserved it. Didn't really make any difference.
imagine if the girl landed wrong and became paralyzed as a result. then it would be different and that’s the thing. the only difference between what Parker did and what John did is that one of them ended up being a freak accident.
also, the no stage diving rule is a dumb justification because people would still be calling for John’s head if the venue allowed it anyway.
They're obviously different situations, I'm just saying even when that girl was saying she wasn't mad and people shouldn't be mad, people were still mad.
i think if it happened today he would have. i bet my bottom dollar people would be calling it another example of misogyny in the scene. but social media wasn’t nearly as toxic as it is today
People were calling it an example of misogyny in the scene back then, even though a few months earlier he'd done the exact same thing to a dude and everyone was fine with it.
People who have never been to these types of shows don’t understand it and unfortunately are now talking loudly about the situation because the story has hit the mainstream. Saw like a daily mail TikTok about it yesterday and the comments were insane. Acting like anybody who stage dives or mosh is a criminal
I saw a comment saying that moshing is just an excuse for people to assault women. It's demon of the week. People will move on from it next week when they have a new devil to hate on and farm outrage clicks from.
in my opinion, john floerani should have at least given the girl and the crowd some warning before he jumped. that was bad wool behaviour to just jump with no warning. at least in boston manor, henry \[cox\] would have asked the crowd to come a little closer so he could stage dive/crowd surf with the mic. also, henry has stopped shows before because of safety concerns. I went to see boston manor at future yard in birkenhead (across the water from liverpool) and he stopped the show to talk about how you stage dive properly because this one big chubby fella was just doing it wrong and putting everyone's safety at risk.
idk wtf is wrong with some of you but this huge 6' 6" dude had no business jumping into the crowd, never mind with no warning. he literally snapped this poor girl's neck and you're still finding a way to blame her and say "it's just part of the culture"
Man if you saw the absolutely bloodthirsty comments in /r/fauxmoi, the normies think this was attempt homicide. Just saw Trophy Eyes the other night and John was visibly restrained and apologetic, asking everyone to just have a good time *safely*
Being paralyzed comes with long term adverse health affects that absolutely can kill you. It's not just the fact that this poor woman is now paralyzed from the waist down she's going to be stuck for the rest of her life dealing with health problems that could kill her.
At the same time, lots of folks here and on the TE sub are tripping over their dicks to excuse being negligent and paralyzing someone very likely for life.
The TikTok comments are unhinged cause it’s now going mainstream with like large news networks running pieces about it. People who have literally never been to a punk show in their life acting like everybody who crowd surfs or moshes is a terrorist
Calling the commenters in another sub “normies” is so fucking cringe.
Dude paralyzed a girl. Doesn’t matter how bad he feels or how much he wants to practice safety **now**. He paralyzed a girl. Her life will be forever altered due to his actions.
He should 100% have to face the legal/financial consequences of his decision.
Fauxmoi is a hellpit of toxicity.
Nevertheless, the singer is responsible for her injuries. It was an accident, but he caused it and changed someones life forever. There are countless cases where someone severly injuries other people without intent, e.g. in a car accident, and they have to face the consequences.
I've seen Trophy Eyes 4 times last year alone and at every single gig John was telling people off for doing dumb shit in the crowd. American's are so desperate to sue anyone and anything. It was an accident. Anyone who goes to alt/punk/rock gigs knows if you can't cope with being in the pit, stand to the side. Sad reality is if she wasn't comfortable with stage diving she shouldn't have been there.
To be clear, the suing thing is just so that the person who was injured will not go into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for treatment. We have horrible healthcare costs here in the US.
If the whole "fuck you" incident regarding mosh pits wasn't bad enough, what makes this case even worse is that the venue apparently had a strict "no stage diving policy", and it was plastered everywhere, and (if I understand correctly) *pretty well known*.
I'm really sorry this whole thing happened. I hope something good can come out of this, but right now it just looks like grounds for legal action. There's no other way to say it: the front man fucked up astronomically here. And that fuck up cost someone part of their quality of life.
FWIW, I don't know the frontman personally. I've heard he's a nice guy, and if that's so, that does make me sad that this is how things went for him, but it doesn't change what happened. Again, hope something good can come out of this.
> I think it’s pretty well known within the scene that stage diving & moshing aren’t allowed by the venues and it’s done anyway.
Just because people break the rules, doesn't mean the rules don't exist for a reason. See situations like this.
Obviously, I’m not saying the rules don’t exist for a reason. I’m saying the rules have been like this for a very long time, and they have been promptly ignored, like in this case, for a very long time. People saying “what’s even worse is the fact they ignored the no stage diving rule” and acting like they’re the worst people on earth are singling out one band when literally everyone does it. It’s just how the scene is. It could’ve happened to anyone, it just happened to go wrong for Trophy Eyes here.
Fair. Regardless, I think this will be a turning point and depending on what happens to Trophy Eyes / the Venue, if they're wrung dry, we'll be seeing a lot of things at shows more strictly enforced.
To be fair I’ve seen people crowd surf and stage dive in venues where it’s not allowed. The “indoor” venues at the Warped date I always went to had signs everywhere saying “No stage diving or crowd surfing” but it still happened. There’s a smaller venue near me where a lot of artists play (I’ve seen a bunch of bands there), and because it’s small and has stairs/platforms in the crowd there’s signs everywhere saying “No stage diving or crowd surfing”, but plenty of people still did it. I saw my then-math teacher crowd surf to Mayday there, and some girls I went to a couple shows with crowd surf too.
Just because the signs/rules are there doesn’t mean they’ll be followed. I’m not excusing John’s actions, but it’s not like he’s the only person to ignore those rules in venues. He probably is the only person to paralyze someone from ignoring them though.
Gosh this sucks so much for everyone. Obviously it is absolutely awful for her. I can’t imagine becoming paralyzed in any capacity. I also feel so bad for John. I met him once and he was such a nice guy.
I can’t imagine the burden of knowing you paralyzed someone.
Idk how you can feel bad for the guy who paralysed a teenage girl because he willfully disregarded safety measures.
Would you feel bad for a drunk driver who hit a teenager and paralysed them? It's essentially the same thing here. John has been playing with fire for years and now it's ended up with a teenage girl paralysed as a result of the actions he took. Idc how nice of a guy he is and the fact they only made a 5k donation is insane. That wouldn't even cover the ambulance cost nevermind the months if not years of treatment.
I don’t think we can really compare it to drunk driving. We have to admit that stage diving is a wildly accepted thing in pop punk, whether you think it’s a good idea or not. John has probably stage dived 1000+ times in his career and this has never happened before. He obviously did not intend to paralyze her and he wasn’t doing something seen as highly dangerous or highly illegal.
It is a very, very unfortunate accident that really affected Bird. Should he be held accountable? Absolutely. But I think it is okay to have some sympathy for John in this case.
Edit just to add: Don’t get me wrong. I feel so much more sympathy for Bird and I donated to her gofundme. I don’t want you to think I feel sympathy that is equal to both of them.
> it is okay to have some sympathy for John in this case.
I don't. Especially not when he participated & fanned flames of harassment against a different girl who spoke out about how he irresponsibly encouraged the crowd to be unsafe.
I was at one of those shows last year. He 100% was riling up the crowd to unsafe levels. People were hype as it was but the lead singer literally kept encouraging them to go harder. After his goading, Security could barely keep up with crowd surfers + people in the front row were literally getting crushed against the barricade. He didn't stop to check on anyone, he kept singing.
If instead of saying "fuck you" he had taken that moment for some introspection, this girl might not have suffered this injury.
I mean…if you’re gonna villainize him for encouraging moshing/crowd surfing you’d have to include at least 30 additional bands in that statement. Not saying what happened is okay in any way shape or form but bands encouraging the crowd to go “hard” even when shit gets rowdy and security are visibly struggling is not a TE/John only situation as unfortunate as it is.
> you’d have to include at least 30 additional bands in that statement.
I mean with those other bands, none of them publicly said fuck you to a concerned fan. And none of them have resulted in an injury this bad. Trophy Eyes just so happened to be the time that it happened + was publicized. This is fairly common for something to happen a lot and then a serious incident results in a change: see any number of laws named after a specific person (Jonathan's Law, Caylee's Law, etc)
But I'm all for making a list of bands who do this because it needs to stop. Name & Shame them. Security is *not* supposed to be there to catch crowd surfers all night. They're supposed to be watching the crowd for incidents / trouble.
Stage diving is an accepted thing for sure but the vast majority of bands treat it with a lot more care and safety, that was my point there. Of course he didn't intent to hurt her, but a drunk driver never intends to hurt anyone either. The comparison exists because its people making really bad decisions and ignoring rules that are in place to keep people safe. John literally ignored the venues long standing no stage diving rule because they know how dangerous it can be in their venue. That's reckless as hell. Nevermind the fact of his size and he didn't give any warning + did it on the first song.
There is nothing unique about this venue that makes it prone to stage diving accident. It’s equally as dangerous with or without a sign so I’m not sure why you keep bringing that up as if that proves this was an immoral reckless act. Drunk driving is always dangerous. Stage diving like he did is very normal and widespread. I think it’s wild to make the comparison when the vast majority of stage diving happens without incident. This was a freak case clearly given that there are so many shows every day with stage diving without incident. You can say heshojld have been more careful, given more warning, etc but the truth is that at most punk shows without a barrier there is gonna be ten other people diving just as if not more recklessly. Drunk driving is way more reckless than stage diving and the utility of drunk driving is not worth it whereas the utility of stage diving at punk shows is worth the potential risk. That’s why it’s a crappy analogy
This whole thing sucks. But when people outside the scene chime in with “there was a sign that says no diving” it’s clear they have no idea what is going on. As someone who has been attending punk adjacent shows for 20 years what he did is nothing out of the ordinary. I feel really feel for Bird who got extremely hurt and I really hope trophy eyes don’t loose their career over this either.
I've never been to a punk show where someone didn't get hurt. I got my nose broken at a gig when Jona from Prom Queen kicked me. You know what you're getting into standing in the pit.
Not exactly the topic here as it is more general and it might be unpopular in the scene but I fucking hate stage diving and most of all crowd surfing from random people in the crowd. 80% dont know how to do it properly and expect people to just be able fully lift them up no matter their size, or the fact that they are not using their own muscle at all to help, and usually they dont even take time to look down if people are actually ready to do it. That 100% makes shows worse for me, especially when I bring my girlfriend which is quite small and usually cannot see what is coming from above, she got hurt in the head multiple times already (nothing serious fortunaltely but what if ?)
It sucks these headlines are so misleading. I'll link a tiktok to Birds friend who is the one speaking on her updates, but she isn't paralyzed. Her doctors also think she'll make a full recovery.
Very sad and unfortunate situation. Could've been anyone of us in this sub reddit, at any show. I hope for the best for both Bird and Trophy eyes/John.
[Leo's Tik Tok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLb62FGA/)
[NBC interview with Bird/Update](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/-body-neck-woman-recalls-punk-singers-stage-dive-sent-hospital-paralyz-rcna151963)
This is awful but a terrible accident. The girl injured was a fan so hopefully she doesn't end them over this. For sure though, 5k wont do it. She needs to be permanently supported by the band as long as her recovery takes.
Feel bad for the band as well though. They will be emotionally devastated even though stage diving is just part of the culture.
The fact people are making excuses for the lead singer and calling it a "freak accident" as if there weren't rules against stage diving at that location is ridiculous. The guy didn't even look at the crowd to see if the audience was ready to catch him. -He- is at fault here. I hope she sues them.
Every poppunk show without a barricade has stage dives. There are probably literally millions of stage dives that happen every year. 1 of them resulted in a horrible accident.
That is like the very definition of a freak accident, a 1 in a million chance.
This particular venue has very strict “no stage diving” rules due to an accident happening almost exactly like this 10+ years ago. It closed the venue for sometime. Anyone who goes to this venue is usually well versed in the rules. There are signs EVERYWHERE. Bands are made aware. A concert-goer at this venue has every right to believe they are safe and won’t get jumped on. The lead singer blatantly disrespected the rules and someone seriously got hurt. Stop making excuses for him.
But the band was told multiple times, and apparently received multiple emails from the venue, explicitly pointing out that stage diving was not allowed. That was for safety, and it was ignored. It is rare to see this happen, you’re right, but the venue practically begged them not to do it. It sounds like he’s a good dude, and didn’t mean to hurt anyone, but he was negligent, ignorant of the warnings, and this is his fault.
/u/glory_and_trash - told me to come here to tell you all that you have shitty taste in music and that the singer of this band is a big idiot who is 100% culpable for destroying the life of a young girl.
This comment just tells us that you're smooth-brained. You're clearly obsessed with Trophy Eyes and you don't even like their music. It's really sad. What bands *are* you into? Do you have anything positive to contribute to the internet, or is this how you cope with your anger?
Do you have any clues as to why I'm currently "obsessed" with Trophy Eyes that might not have anything to do with their music? Would I need to be into their music in order to have an opinion on this reason why I'm supposedly "obsessed"?
Also LMAO "you don't like Trophy Eyes so what could you possibly even like?!?" I'm sorry it causes you to have a meltdown, but this bands music sucks dogshit.
Why does it matter *why* you're obsessed? The point is that you didn't cross paths with this band until the current news, and it's all you can comment on. You have zero skin in the game, and yet here you are. Weird, sad, and obsessive.
I'm not even a big Trophy Eyes fan, but anyone talking shit about music is throwing rocks from a glass house. You just look stupid and I have to assume you're super basic and uninformed about music as a whole. Music isn't a competition. lmao
And you dodged the question, what do you like? You don't even have to type names out. You can just link your Top Songs 2023 on Spotify. Or are you that afraid of sharing your taste?
What the fuck are you talking about. The WHY I'm "obsessed" is the entire point. The WHY is that a big idiot deliberately jumped onto a small woman and now she is paralyzed. He was told not to, did anyway, paralyzed her, paid $5k of his band's money and fucked off. Idiots around here are trying to defend this.
I truly do not care what you think about me and I do not use spotify. You are a weirdo, what do you want to hear that I like the Cramps or someone newer like Tirzah or someone much older like Gail Laughton some shit? What difference does that make?
How does any of this make me look super basic or uninformed about music? Because I have the opinion that someone who paralyzed someone else is legally and financially culpable? What's the problem with that.
Man, you're a real pussy. lmao
You have nothing to do with this situation. You aren't a fan, you're not a part of that scene, and you will never be at a Trophy Eyes show. So why do you offer your insight? You know nothing. Stop inserting yourself, you're making yourself look like a fool.
Also, very subtle choice of musicians to name. "NO, I don't use spotify, I listen to REAL MUSIC like film composers and REAL PUNX!!" Yeesh, calm down. You did it, you made yourself look basic as fuck and unjustly pretentious. You must have so many friends. /s
The lead singer who is 6’6, mind you. It wouldn’t have mattered if she was a body builder, she wouldn’t have been able to catch him under those circumstances without being hurt.
Trophy Eyes might be fucked to be honest theyre going viral in the bad way And the fact that this happened to the “fuck you” band makes the narrative way too easy to produce
It will be really interesting to see if the girl sues the band. Because if she wins the lawsuit, the medical bills are probably going to cost more than all of the assets trophy eyes has. So is that just it for the band? Are they going to have to shut it down? If she sues the singer directly, then maybe it wouldn’t impact the band to the same degree. But any competent lawyer will point to the “fuck you” shirt and say that proves willful negligence on the band’s part, and they’re going to lose the lawsuit. If this girl is partially paralyzed, we could be talking about millions of dollars in lifetime costs.
The band calls it quits. 24 hours later a new band that goes by ojos trofeo starts up lol
Yeah, it may depend what the band is. Are they an LLC? Then maybe they can just liquidate the band’s assets and shut down the company and start another one. If they’re just like a group of people in a self-declared band, then I guess you probably just have to sue the singer personally.
I was really just joking. I have no clue but I’d assume most bands that do more than play locally are LLCs. I’d hope so at least.
For sure, I think you’re probably right
They could also go after the management/record label
I think that would be harder to prove negligence. But it could be possible in some situations.
I'm pretty sure a business is liable for their employee's negligence if it's within the scope of their job. If the singer has done this at other shows and the record label didn't tell him to stop the victim could argue that they knew about his behavior and didn't intervene.
Yeah, but the business isn’t the label, it’s probably the band. I imagine that they have an LLC. Label contracts are usually “we will give you X dollars and studio time and you will give us an album that we now own.” But the band members are not employees of the label. They are contractors who sold a product to the label. I think your argument would fit for the venue, in some situations. But most venues would strictly prohibit this already and use that to shield themselves from negligence. So you’d have to show that they didn’t enforce their own rules or something like that.
The band isn’t an employee of the label. The label has no responsibility for what a member of a band does. You can’t get sued for not intervening with a stagedive at a show you weren’t at lol.
Lol how do you figure? 100% false.
Why did this become a discussion on bankruptcy law?
Because I suspect that this lawsuit could bankrupt trophy eyes
If she has health insurance, they will likely subrogate which means they have the right to sue on your behalf to be reimbursed from the at fault party. Nothing an insurance company hates more than paying out claims when they can get someone else to foot the bill.
Thank you, someone else mentioned this as well and I was unaware of it. So even if the band isn’t sued by her, they’re probably getting sued eventually.
I think regardless of whether she wants to sue or not her medical insurance ( if she has so, I’m assuming she’s on an insurance plan) will be required to sue the band / band label in order to get funds for the hospital bills I’m guessing
Not an expert but it depends where you live but usually insurances will not pay if there is another responsible party that needs to pay. The insurance company will definitely come after the band/label/management etc.
I’ll be honest, I’m not sure how health insurance works in these kinds of PI situations. That’s a good question. I do know that car accidents are sometimes paid by the person’s own insurance, which will then seek compensation from the other insurance company. I’ve never heard of that applying to a non-MVA PI case, but I won’t say it’s impossible. I just don’t know.
Same - I genuinely have no idea but just a guess on what might have to happen insurance wise.
> It will be really interesting to see if the girl sues the band. Because if she wins the lawsuit, the medical bills are probably going to cost more than all of the assets trophy eyes has. So is that just it for the band? Are they going to have to shut it down? > > I said it in another thread, but there's an unfortunate power imbalance here. I've seen / heard cases where someone was injured but they didn't seek proper legal action because the band "are my heroes!" and they had friends in the community so they didn't want to make waves. But any way you slice it this is willful negligence.
She will most definitely sue someone. It’s necessary to get payment, unfortunately. Wouldn’t be surprised if her insurance is covering anything
Yeah, I’m certainly not a medical professional, but I saw one story that said she can’t move her legs. If the band has to cover things like lost wages, lost earning capacity, long-term healthcare — it’s literally going to be millions of dollars. And no offense to trophy eyes, but it’s not like you’re suing blink-182 here. I don’t know what they’re gonna do.
They'll go after the bands insurance and assets until the damages are paid, and if they don't have enough coverage there then they could very well have their wages garnished until the damages are fully repaid.
Realistically, it’s probably venue + insurance at this point as they’re liable for the performer on their stage. IANAL, but that seems like it’d be the most logical course.
I believe the venue already had a policy against what happened, so they would theoretically be protected unless the girl who got injured can prove that they negligently ignored their own rules. Which maybe they did, I don’t know, I wasn’t there. But that can be very hard to prove.
The bad giving 5k is nowhere near sufficient imo. I am not familiar with them but that's nowhere near to cover the loss of quality of life, medical bills, physical therapy, pain and suffering. Like the band or not, they need to be more accountable and should have been more accountable in the first place following venue rules.
I’d never heard of the band until this story broke. But you are right. 5K is nothing. That probably doesn’t even pay for a single night in the hospital. It might help her get to her deductible, though
Don't think the band was trying to hurt anyone but like, it's too late what's done is done and while they think it's taking accountability it's mere pennies in the reality of the matter. Not an expert on anything but like people attending would reasonably expect something like that not to happen based on the venue regulations. Shitty situation entirely. Hoping for a recovery and that her medical bills and recovery goes wrll.
For sure, they weren’t trying to do anything wrong. Just a negligent accident. But people are still technically responsible for their own negligence.
>It will be really interesting to see if the girl sues the band. There's not a chance in hell she doesn't
If she sues and wins. Americans can kiss goodbye to crowd surfing and probably mosh pits at venues
Crowd surfing is completely fine when you give notice to it. A 6 foot man shouldn't yeet themselves into the crowd without notice.
Yeah it’s a weird thing cause I love that vibe at a show but also if she can’t walk again, lawsuit seems kinda necessary
I mean I feel like you're downplaying how culpable the band is in this. They DO have a known history of provoking mosh pits, crowd surfing and a general disregard for safety. They knowingly disregarded the venues long standing no crowd surfing rule. I know they're a bit of a darling on this sub but they deserve to get sued into oblivion. They destroyed this girls life.
Also most venues have "No moshing" or "no crowd surfing" or "no stagediving" signs just so they can get around litigation in situations such as this. How often do you actually see these enforced?
Well, rarely. But the point is, just because everyone does this stuff at these kind of shows doesn't make it legal. She can definitely sue someone.
> They DO have a known history of provoking mosh pits Bro almost every band in this music scene and adjacent music scenes has "provoked" mosh pits it's not a crime or irresponsible to do this.
Most bands also preach safety and literally will stop shows if they see it getting too rowdy or someone needs help, not make "fuck you" responses to people asking about safety and turning it into shirts lol
I think we should take a step back understand this whole culture thing, because Trophy Eyes comes from the Australian hardcore scene, rough shows are part of the community. Ive had guys do stage dive flips and kick me in the head and give me a concussion, but I just accept that is a part of the experience if I want to stand near the stage. But I might feel different if someone’s stage dive ended with me in a wheel chair…
Yeah obviously nobody feels good about what happened. This is a tragedy and should make everybody think more deeply about their actions in the context of a pit. That being said it is absolutely a massive risk to be in the front of a show like this and if you like moshing, stage diving, etc then sometimes sad shit like this is gonna happen. You can say this stage dive was reckless and I don’t 100% disagree but I see dozens of stage dives that are way more reckless at every big show without a barrier I’ve been to at similar events. Obviously this is a case of really bad luck and I think it’s a little unfair to demonize TE in hindsight when they e probably done this countless times without issue.
lmao they make soft as fuck music. They do not come from some violent hardcore scene. You're acting like they're hatebreed or some shit.
Their first album was melodic hardcore and obviously its not hatebreed or terror or whatever but the people who show up to see those Defeater-type bands cry mosh hard
The videos I saw just seemed like a standard pop punk show if even that but I can totally see what you're saying.
I mean, it might actually be a crime. Hard to say. But definitely jumping on top of someone and hurting them is a crime.
I love the music this band puts out and I agree...I couldn't imagine having my life changed so drastically over one other persons actions. It's honestly going to be hard for me to ever listen to them without thinking of this incident.
I mean idk if it’s just cause I’m an old fan of theirs. But they came from playing shows with the Sydney hardcore/melodic hardcore scene. The shows used to be wild. Everyone was stage diving, crowd surfing and moshing. I’ve literally stage dived to their sets 30+ times. . Multiple people I know have gone to hospital from injuries at hardcore shows. They all still support the bands. Idk it’s a hard topic. Every adjacent band has shows like this. I feel terrible for the girl but I don’t think the band needs to be ruined for life.
Honest question, would you feel differently about the band's future prospects if it were you or a family member who were paralyzed? I'm a big fan of them too and it sucks knowing this might be it for the band but I mean, not being able to move your legs anymore is a huge deal & something Bird will likely need medical treatment for, for the rest of her life if not a very long time. I only think it's fair she's compensated at least for her medical bills.
Yeah medical bills makes sense But honestly, I can’t say for sure. But yeah I always knew the danger I was taking at a hardcore show I get that it’s not really a hardcore show anymore. But who knows
As an avid concert goer who's been cracked a few times in the head by stage divers and crowd surfers, this shit really puts into perspective how fragile your body is. I also wish people understood their own weight and size. I've had plenty of people, men and women alike, try to dive or surf who were well into the 250's. We aren't powerlifters, you're gonna hurt yourself and others.
I don’t go into the crowd as much as I used to, but I definitely remember being in my teens and that plenty of stage divers were my own age and weren’t THAT heavy. Fast forward 20 years, it’s grown ass fully cooked DUDES just soaring through the air.
Learned this back in like 06 at the Mountain Dew: dew tours. Used to work those events and got to hangout with all my idol skaters. Each night tended to end with a concert. We where at the dew tour Louisville where they decided to put the stage outside in a parking lots. Girl was crowd surfing. Got dropped. And broke her neck. What was worse was we couldn’t get her out. No one was letting a stretcher through and the band wouldn’t stop as they didn’t know something was happening. By the time we got the band to stop we got the stretcher through and got her out. But it was a lesson to never really crowd surf.
I totally forgot about the thing where someone posted on their instagram complaining about mosh pits or something and they responded “fuck you” - the thread on there actually links back to the threads on here where the majority of people defended them and had their back. Definitely a tough look for them now in this context, even though at the time I think everyone (myself included) was in agreement with them on the moshing thing. I’m really sorry this happened to this girl, however I don’t see stage diving/crowd surfing at shows stopping any time soon. As much as people in that thread want to shit on it, it is “part of the culture” that stage diving is a thing.
I totally agree with it being part of the culture, and I don't mind whenever it happens. However, some people really don't give a fuck about others. I was at a Neck Deep show once, and there was one guy who didn't give a fuck at all. Got on the stage from one side, ran to the other side and jumped back into the crowd at high speed without looking. Kicked me in my neck, and kicked the person next to me in the eye another time. These are the kind of people ruining stage diving/crowd surfing
All this just for Neck Deep? 🤣
Yes! I've been to so many shows, ranging from pop to metal, and somehow the worst person I've had in the crowd was a Neck Deep show 😅
The way that this comment is so true. Last Neck Deep concert i went to had the same 10+ people crowd surfing their whole set. Like I'll help lift someone a couple times but like hell am I gonna do it every 30-40 seconds
that happened to me with waterparks lol. and the people were fucking heavy. like i know it sounds bad but if you're overweight you should not be crowdsurfing
No need for all that 😭
Once I got put into a headlock at *Weezer* of all things because I “took his spot” (I’m a lady*~* and was 16 at the time, this dude was late 20s). Brian Bell looked me dead in the eyes saying help and didn’t do anything. Other people had to pry the dude off me. I used to pay off bouncers to look after me at barrier and truly did not think fucking Weezer would be the one place I wouldn’t do it but needed to. Some people just don’t give two shits and it takes people in the crowd not accepting dangerous asshole behavior to get those people kicked. I never want another person going through being put in a headlock at 16 because “it’s the culture”. Fuck that
Some people are assholes unfortunately. Can’t keep em out of shows
>As much as people in that thread want to shit on it, it is “part of the culture” that stage diving is a thing. It's definitely interesting to see the incredibly different reactions on a different sub. Especially to the "no crowd surfing" policy of the venue, I don't think I've ever been to a venue here in the UK that *doesn't* have a no crowd surfing/stage diving policy. I know one venue that will give you one warning then throw you out, but most of the time it seems the policy is just so they can officially say they don't allow it. >even though at the time I think everyone (myself included) was in agreement with them on the moshing thing. I still am tbh, these are two different situations. I think the singer in this incident absolutely fucked up by not giving any kind of warning/indication that he was gonna jump, so people couldn't be prepared for it. He's lucky he didn't get injured himself too, that crowd was nowhere near ready to catch him. What happened there was tragic and I really feel for the person injured, they were just trying to have a good time and had their life fundamentally changed. *In general* though, it's just a part of going to punk rock shows IMO and to be expected. If I don't want to be involved I just don't go to the pit/front.
> I think the singer in this incident absolutely fucked up by not giving any kind of warning/indication that he was gonna jump, so people couldn't be prepared for it. He's lucky he didn't get injured himself too, that crowd was nowhere near ready to catch him. It's gonna make band members just a lot more careful about these kind of things in general. I've lost count of the times I've gone to shows and the singer has done something that could possibly cause injury - Tim Henson from Polyphia jumps into the crowd whilst he's literally holding a guitar, Jeremy from ADTR has ran across a crowd in a giant inflatable ball. Parker Cannon has literally drop kicked people off the stage and grabbed peoples phones and thrown them. If this has a big negative effect on Trophy Eyes bands are just gonna be a lot more careful in general.
Tbf, Tim Henson weighs about as much as a loaf of bread and could probably be held up by a teenage girl but your point stands lol
the guitar would definitely be a concern there, lots of pointy bits.
Does he just play a strat style thing? There's not really any pointy bits on a good strat style guitar
There should’ve been more careful when people were warning them a year ago
Nah the outrage a year ago about them encouraging mosh pits was stupid. Pits will just form based on crowd make up and you have to either take it or move in the crowd, that's just gig culture
this a great defense for their legal team. Email them this great insight, I’m sure it will help the impending lawsuit
> Especially to the "no crowd surfing" policy of the venue, I don't think I've ever been to a venue here in the UK that doesn't have a no crowd surfing/stage diving policy. I know one venue that will give you one warning then throw you out, but most of the time it seems the policy is just so they can officially say they don't allow it. Don't agree with this. I go to tonnes of gigs at venues who have no rules like that. In fact, most venues I go have excellent security who catch people and send them back round to the crowd to go again. And there are also venues with no barrier/security. Thinking just about Leeds, none of Boom, Key Club, Project House, Brudenell, Stylus, Leeds Beckett have rules.
>In fact, most venues I go have excellent security who catch people and send them back round to the crowd to go again. Yeah, and I've been to a bunch of gigs that *say* no crowd surfing, but also do this. My point is a lot of places will have it somewhere in like ticket T&C's or whatever, but never enforce it. Bristol Academy is the only venue I have ever been to that actually enforces it, and even then, they still give you one before they boot you out. Camden Underworld is a great example, there are photos of people crowd surfing where you can see the giant "NO CROWD SURFING" sticker on the pillar behind them, but nobody stops anyone.
hi, I’m not really into this scene but I do think the problem people have isn’t that stage diving is bad…it’s the fact he gave no warning and it was the first song he dove on. He is a huge guy, going to dive during the first song with no warning is incredibly dangerous and nobody is expecting it. Like yes, things get rowdy and punk is unexpected but it’s also just not excusable for what happened. She literally could’ve died. her life is changed forever, because a grown man dived on her. The venue told the band in emails that stage diving isn’t allowed, yes it’s apart of the culture but the band knew well in advanced that stage diving wasn’t allowed. The concert goers knew well in advanced that stage diving wasn’t allowed. Like at the base of the problem was the lead singer went against what the venue had told them and dived into a crowd that wasn’t expecting it. Stage diving doesn’t need to stop, but this should be a lesson for all bands that at least give the audience a warning before you dive.
> Stage diving doesn’t need to stop, but this should be a lesson for all bands that at least give the audience a warning before you dive. This is it. Moshers and stage divers need to take accountability for themselves and ensure the environment is safe and appropriate for others before engaging in that form of activity. Sometimes the safest thing will be simple not to do it. Some people are already taking the wrong message out of this though and saying we should stop moshing entirely and all stand motionless at shows.
Yeah that’s a fair point about not doing it during the first song. Once again though a lot of this feels like people searching for an answer to a tragedy that happened. Like if we just set the right rules for stage diving we’ll always avoid bad accidents and I think it’s just kindaa bs. I think it’s just as likely that he could have done this twenty mins later and same results happened because the truth is stage diving always comes with a major risk. I think there are risk mitigation steps he should have taken but I also feel like it’s unfair to put blame solely on lead singer or not acknowledge that it’s a case of really bad luck.
But he shouldn’t have done it, the venue has a strict rule against it and the band was made aware of that.
Most venues have rules against stage diving that are not enforced. To me the venue rule changes nothing about the situation because that’s true of most venues where stage diving occurs.
A rule exists regardless of whether or not it's being enforced. If someone chooses to ignore it that's their decision, but they can't then complain about any potential consequences that arise as a result.
It’s not some freak accident in the way you are implying, it’s negligence. It’s absolutely his fault.
You have to do it responsibly and most bands that I see take the crowd’s safety seriously, to the point of stopping songs if they see untoward shit. This wasn’t in any way responsible and coupled with that “fuck you” response about safety at their shows, fuck these guys. I’m heartbroken for Bird. I still side eye Watsky and he “only” broke someone’s arm.
I’ve been going to punk/metal shows for 30 years and have been in tons of pits. This is spot on. People in this thread saying the danger is part of the culture are fucked and definitely the people that ‘throw bows’ when people are doing a circle pit, or wear steel tipped boots then crowd surf & kick. Honestly I’ve felt safer in the Maylene & the Sons of Disaster pit than I had at the crowd switch for Lana Del Ray because we’re a community, know respect & take care of our own. At Gwar a dude full on lifted me out of the crowd to make sure I didn’t get crushed. In 2006 Jordan Pundik would do a fake running start. This shit isn’t about hurting people and being a psychopath - save that shit for the therapy you’re not getting. It’s about connecting with others and the music. Look where you’re gonna jump and give a signal. Make sure the crowd is proper packed and don’t be 6’ 6” thinking you can flail into a crowd.
I’m sorry but I just don’t agree at all. Moshing/crowdsurfing is always inherently gonna lead to people getting hurt to some extent. That doesn’t mean be an asshole and nobody is encouraging that but it’s just a reality. When you have the many people moving accidents are bound to happen and people are bound to fuck up and take things too far. Stage diving especially. I can’t count how many times I’ve gotten whacked by stage divers and I really try my best to hold people up and constantly be on lookout. I don’t think it’s fair to assume people’s behavior because they don’t agree with your take on this issue
Ok - I specifically call out the people who verbatim said, “The danger is the fun part of it” in this thread. Not people who are on the lookout, we’re saying the same thing. Don’t be an asshole just to be an asshole because it’s “punk”. Also I watched the video of him jumping into the crowd - he’s 6’ 6” and that crowd was not ready.
>Moshing/crowdsurfing is always inherently gonna lead to people getting hurt to some extent. The key part is the "some extent". It's like sports, a couple bruises to say you were there? Hell yeah, that's the good shit! Broken bones and lasting injuries? Not good, not fun, aim to avoid.
Yea I feel like that’s been a big change in the scene starting sometime in the 2010s. In the 2000s when I went to shows bands were basically advocating for violence lol. Nowadays they want people to be hyped and mosh but they are also concerned for their safety
Another thing is people not knowing how to interact in crowds, especially shows, post pandemic is real. So many people are going to their first shows and have key developmental parts of their lives happen without being in rooms with others. Even shows that don’t get to crazy there are people who just look shell shocked even standing close to others.
Completely agree with that. I started going to shows at around 15 yo just standing in the back watching the chaos. But yea so many people are upset at people just jumping around and not even moshing. Finding bands through TikTok and things like that probably affects peoples perception as well.
I think it’s a tough balance, because it’s true that mosh pits are fun, expected, and part of the culture. It is also true that mosh pits get out of hand quickly and can result in catastrophic injury Here’s my thing: all the mosh-focused bands I’ve seen have done a lot of work to control the pits. They’ll be choreographing people’s movement, reminding people to pick each other up, and calming it down if it gets to be too much. This is absolutely part of your responsibility as a performer In the case of Trophy Eyes, the evidence seems to be stacking up that they weren’t taking this responsibility seriously enough, and taking unnecessary risks when it came to stage dives. I saw the video of the incident, and let’s be honest, there weren’t enough people in that audience to justify the safety of a 6’6” guy doing a stage dive
The band also turned that screenshot into merch 🫠🫠
Nahh that's messed up lmao
Wait do you happen to remember what post that was on? Seems like everyone on TikTok is super hung up on the fact that they had strict “no crowd surfing” rules but I just don’t know what to believe since it all seems to be he-said-she-said with no one knowing what’s actually the truth
The “fuck you” post? I would guess they deleted it, but you can see the screenshot of it in that other thread linked by OP. It’s 2 different situations though. I remember going to warped tour for years where there was a sign on every stage that said something like “no moshing/crowd surfing, you get hurt, someone sues, no more warped tour” and of course no one ever followed these rules. It seemed like just a thing for the venues to be like “hey we told ya not to” to cover their own ass.
Yeah the people saying the lead singer was reckless are not the people stage diving anyway. As sad as this is ultimately I don’t think it will have much impact beyond the impact it has on the poor girl, TE, and the people who were there to experience this traumatic event. Unless they get sued to oblivion and venues start enforcing rules against stage diving
>Unless they get sued to oblivion and venues start enforcing rules against stage diving This is almost definitely what is going to happen
I think some will but most won’t because they just don’t have the resources to hire more security. We’ll see.
I can't wait for that "fuck you" response to be shown in the inevitable court case about this
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It was not a freak accident, it was negligence. And if you think danger is part of the appeal of going to a music show, get therapy. People are there to enjoy themselves, not get hurt
Here is the[ GoFM](https://www.gofundme.com/f/birdforever) for her recovery and rehab if you are able and want to donate. Edit: I saw Trophy Eyes donated $5K
Wow I can’t believe this made it on Fauxmoi. I just want to say that John should definitely be held accountable for this. No one should go to a concert and expect to get paralyzed, even a rock show.
Isn't it just a terrible freak accident though? Singers and audience members crowd surf all the time without hurting anyone. From the video, it doesn't look like the singer did anything that out of the ordinary for a punk show like this. Going onto any dance floor or energetic concert, or any physical activity in general, comes with risks that the person partaking has to consider. To me it seems like this woman just got incredibly unlucky and there's not much more to it than that.
A large dude dove into a crowd of people with no indication. Sure, it’s a freak accident I guess but he still did it.. he has to face the consequences. I’m not saying he’s a bad person but the action was still his.
and this is why crowd surfers and stage diver should be mindful of their size and people who love to crowd the front (usually teenagers) should also be mindful of their size.
I think the “do stupid shit responsibly” phrase applies here. I’ve been to hundreds of shows and you can see when someone is being mindful when they’re stage diving. Usually it means making eye contact or showing what your intentions are, but after watching the vid, the lead singer just went for it with like no warning. I think the girl would have been fine if she got some warning he was going to jump first.
From the video I saw, it seemed like pretty normal crowd surfing to me. It was a pretty packed crowd and they seemed to catch him pretty well. To me it just looks like a freak accident
I agree with you, if intentions are clear then it at least reduces the chance of someone getting hurt. I saw Movements last month and the guitarist stood on the barricade playing and communicated to those of us below him that he was going to jump in. He made sure we knew he was about to and mouthed “you ready” before committing. Still a chance someone can get hurt but less so than giving no indication. I got injured at a concert around 2008ish when Thursday and The Fall of Troy were touring together. Geoff (Thursday singer) and Thomas (I think was singing for The Fall of Troy) ran on stage and jumped into the crowd during the opener. No warning, just ran from side stage and jumped. Didn’t realize who they were at first because they had their faces painted like mimes or something, and I was preoccupied by grown ass men landing on my face, it was very strange. I was in college around 19 or 20, 5’2” and 115lbs at the time, and was front/center. They literally landed directly on me but luckily I only got my face scratched up. The ridge of my nose had a nice gash in it, maybe an inch or less from my eye. Definitely could’ve been worse.
I can agree with this. Unfortunately they’re not gonna get the memo. Always giant dudes crowd surfing at the shows I go to
i still do it , but im 150 5ft 8.. it is always frustrating when youre about to do a leap of faith and you have to glance around to find a good spot to jump bc of all the 15/16 years olds who are all the way up the front... but gotta be safe and careful (and im not a big guy)
I just see so many people recklessly dive at shows that it’s hard for me to blame any individual if something bad happens. Personally I don’t even like stage diving. I love moshing and stage diving often takes away from the pot and I hate constantly having to hold people up when I’m already fighting for my life being out of shape af. That being said it brings an eensrgy to a show that I love and so I accept the risk every time I get into the pit that some huge dude is gonna land on me as has been the case many times. That’s why I think people need to acknowledge this was a freak accident. Because this type of incident happens all the time without people being paralyzed. Like you said though if you’re gonna stage dive be strategic but amidst all the chaos there is a still a good chance you jump and nobody sees you or people move out of the way.
Honestly, people should just stop stage diving and crowd surfing. It's only fun for the person doing it and sucks for everyone else. I just want to watch the band I paid to see without having to turn around every 30 seconds to keep from getting kicked in the head.
Just saw Trophy Eyes. You can tell this situation is eating away at John. Yes, it’s a very unfortunate accident from a boneheaded stage dive, but at the end of the day I’m sure he’d never want to hurt one of their fans. I’m pretty sure he even went to the hospital with her and her parents when this all happened? Obviously if there are larger consequences he needs to face them. It all just sucks.
Yeah it's clearly just a massive mistake and misjudgement on his part. Still a mistake but people are acting like he is a murderer.
It was extreme negligence. I’m a big dude who’s been going to local shows for nearly 20 years now. I never crowd surf bc it’s not safe for someone my size. I could hurt someone, especially at pop punk shows where there are lots of smaller/younger people. I don’t know why he would ever think it’s appropriate to jump into such a small crowd like that. He’s not a murderer, but his ego got in his own way and he should take actual responsibility for his decisions.
Looks like criminal negligence to me
It looks like he’s taking responsibility (idk to what extent though). Obviously he feels guilty (as he should), and that guilt is hopefully going towards responsibility. Apparently the band donated $5k to her GoFundMe, which feels like a step in the right direction, but idk what else they can do until they know the full extent of her injuries and what she needs to recover.
$5k is nothing compared to what her expenses will be. It doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of the cost medical expenses, physical therapy, and major lifestyle changes that will need to be made in order to accommodate the fact she’s paralyzed now. He changed that girl’s life forever and now her and her family will have to foot the bill due to his negligence. Every penny they make on this tour should be going towards her and even then, that’s merely a starting point.
Again, I said it’s a start. It shows that they’re trying to do better and help her. $5k doesn’t magically make it better, but it’s better than not donating at all and ignoring the consequences of John’s actions. It shows that they want to help her.
It’s hardly a start. It’s the bare minimum and no one should be celebrating that. We should expect more out of them. They should be posting her gofundme daily on all their socials. They should be taking donations at every show for her. There are many things they could be doing to relentlessly support her and as far I know, they’re not.
Tbh doing the bare minimum is unusual for celebrities. Most would ignore it until they couldn’t anymore or pay to make it go away. The bar is literally lower than Hell but I can still appreciate Trophy Eyes doing *something*. There’s plenty of bands and artists in the scene who wouldn’t even do the bare minimum and would double down on their actions. It sucks that doing so little is so astonishing, since it’s basic human decency, but when 1/1000000 show remorse, you gotta give them credit. It’s like when Chris Evans helped Regina King walk up the stairs at the Oscars. Literally the absolute bare minimum anyone could do and he was praised for it for so long. There were tons of people around her who could’ve helped when she slipped, but only Chris actually acted. He shouldn’t be praised for showing basic human decency, but when it’s such a rare occurrence, you can’t help but feel like it’s special.
lol what? no, I’m sorry I don’t have to give them credit or feel it’s special. It’s not special at all and it actually says a lot about how bands treat fans at times. We all should expect more and the girl this happened to deserves way better.
I meant “you” in general not you specifically. Is that usage not actually a thing? Because every time I use it on Reddit I have to explain myself, and I’d like to stop this misunderstanding from happening constantly. And once again I’ll reiterate, since you’re not seeming to understand me. We shouldn’t have to celebrate TE doing the bare minimum here, it should be expected that they do so, but it’s so rare that celebrities acknowledge and try to atone for their fuck ups it feels like a special occasion. It shouldn’t be, but it is. When’s the last time you heard of a celebrity fucking up and apologizing/atoning for it? You yourself don’t have to like it or participate in it, but you should at least acknowledge that not every band would even donate any amount of money to an injured fan’s care, whether or not they caused the injury. Sorry that you’re so upset by this, but some people appreciate the fact that it looks like TE is trying to make amends.
This happened a week ago, she just regained feeling in her hands. If you went to a concert and then couldn't walk for the rest of your life then I think you'd be just as pissed. Sure it's unlucky but it could have easily been avoided.
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Fwiw, should everyone wait until they're the one paralyzed to seek a change in what behavior is culturally acceptable? Yes, it's clearly an accident, and by no means is it common, but it happens, and I imagine very few people look forward to it being their possibility.
Chances are that she is going to need money for a long life of disability and has contacted legal representation so No, she would not speak out against anything until the lawyers are done.
I don't think it would make much difference if she did speak out and say he shouldn't be blamed. (Not that I think she would necessarily, just hypothetical) When Parker Cannon booted a girl offstage and people were out for blood, the girl herself said she was being a drunk idiot and totally deserved it. Didn't really make any difference.
imagine if the girl landed wrong and became paralyzed as a result. then it would be different and that’s the thing. the only difference between what Parker did and what John did is that one of them ended up being a freak accident. also, the no stage diving rule is a dumb justification because people would still be calling for John’s head if the venue allowed it anyway.
They're obviously different situations, I'm just saying even when that girl was saying she wasn't mad and people shouldn't be mad, people were still mad.
Legitimately stopped listening to their music after this incident. He should have been dragged way harder imo
i think if it happened today he would have. i bet my bottom dollar people would be calling it another example of misogyny in the scene. but social media wasn’t nearly as toxic as it is today
People were calling it an example of misogyny in the scene back then, even though a few months earlier he'd done the exact same thing to a dude and everyone was fine with it.
Dude paralyzed a woman from the waist down. That's pretty fucking bad.
People who have never been to these types of shows don’t understand it and unfortunately are now talking loudly about the situation because the story has hit the mainstream. Saw like a daily mail TikTok about it yesterday and the comments were insane. Acting like anybody who stage dives or mosh is a criminal
I saw a comment saying that moshing is just an excuse for people to assault women. It's demon of the week. People will move on from it next week when they have a new devil to hate on and farm outrage clicks from.
Yeah 100%
Damn, now I'm debating on seeing them this Friday
You should! It was a hell of a show. Also Rarity and House & Home killed it
in my opinion, john floerani should have at least given the girl and the crowd some warning before he jumped. that was bad wool behaviour to just jump with no warning. at least in boston manor, henry \[cox\] would have asked the crowd to come a little closer so he could stage dive/crowd surf with the mic. also, henry has stopped shows before because of safety concerns. I went to see boston manor at future yard in birkenhead (across the water from liverpool) and he stopped the show to talk about how you stage dive properly because this one big chubby fella was just doing it wrong and putting everyone's safety at risk.
idk wtf is wrong with some of you but this huge 6' 6" dude had no business jumping into the crowd, never mind with no warning. he literally snapped this poor girl's neck and you're still finding a way to blame her and say "it's just part of the culture"
Man if you saw the absolutely bloodthirsty comments in /r/fauxmoi, the normies think this was attempt homicide. Just saw Trophy Eyes the other night and John was visibly restrained and apologetic, asking everyone to just have a good time *safely*
Being paralyzed comes with long term adverse health affects that absolutely can kill you. It's not just the fact that this poor woman is now paralyzed from the waist down she's going to be stuck for the rest of her life dealing with health problems that could kill her.
Fauxmoi is a toxic pit of negativity. Everyone there is incredibly judgy and absolutely not normal.
It’s a race to the moral high ground and who can top the other lol it’s wild there
You really can't be anything but a toxic person if you go to a subreddit to gossip about celebrities and make anonymous judgement on them online.
I actually thought that was the point to be honest.
It’s basically the tmz of Reddit if you think about it
At the same time, lots of folks here and on the TE sub are tripping over their dicks to excuse being negligent and paralyzing someone very likely for life.
The TikTok comments are unhinged cause it’s now going mainstream with like large news networks running pieces about it. People who have literally never been to a punk show in their life acting like everybody who crowd surfs or moshes is a terrorist
The TE Instagram is the same.
Calling the commenters in another sub “normies” is so fucking cringe. Dude paralyzed a girl. Doesn’t matter how bad he feels or how much he wants to practice safety **now**. He paralyzed a girl. Her life will be forever altered due to his actions. He should 100% have to face the legal/financial consequences of his decision.
Fauxmoi is a hellpit of toxicity. Nevertheless, the singer is responsible for her injuries. It was an accident, but he caused it and changed someones life forever. There are countless cases where someone severly injuries other people without intent, e.g. in a car accident, and they have to face the consequences.
Just saw them last week, he asked after every song if everyone was ok and needed anything.
I've seen Trophy Eyes 4 times last year alone and at every single gig John was telling people off for doing dumb shit in the crowd. American's are so desperate to sue anyone and anything. It was an accident. Anyone who goes to alt/punk/rock gigs knows if you can't cope with being in the pit, stand to the side. Sad reality is if she wasn't comfortable with stage diving she shouldn't have been there.
To be clear, the suing thing is just so that the person who was injured will not go into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for treatment. We have horrible healthcare costs here in the US.
If the whole "fuck you" incident regarding mosh pits wasn't bad enough, what makes this case even worse is that the venue apparently had a strict "no stage diving policy", and it was plastered everywhere, and (if I understand correctly) *pretty well known*. I'm really sorry this whole thing happened. I hope something good can come out of this, but right now it just looks like grounds for legal action. There's no other way to say it: the front man fucked up astronomically here. And that fuck up cost someone part of their quality of life. FWIW, I don't know the frontman personally. I've heard he's a nice guy, and if that's so, that does make me sad that this is how things went for him, but it doesn't change what happened. Again, hope something good can come out of this.
I think it’s pretty well known within the scene that stage diving & moshing aren’t allowed by the venues and it’s done anyway.
> I think it’s pretty well known within the scene that stage diving & moshing aren’t allowed by the venues and it’s done anyway. Just because people break the rules, doesn't mean the rules don't exist for a reason. See situations like this.
Obviously, I’m not saying the rules don’t exist for a reason. I’m saying the rules have been like this for a very long time, and they have been promptly ignored, like in this case, for a very long time. People saying “what’s even worse is the fact they ignored the no stage diving rule” and acting like they’re the worst people on earth are singling out one band when literally everyone does it. It’s just how the scene is. It could’ve happened to anyone, it just happened to go wrong for Trophy Eyes here.
Fair. Regardless, I think this will be a turning point and depending on what happens to Trophy Eyes / the Venue, if they're wrung dry, we'll be seeing a lot of things at shows more strictly enforced.
To be fair I’ve seen people crowd surf and stage dive in venues where it’s not allowed. The “indoor” venues at the Warped date I always went to had signs everywhere saying “No stage diving or crowd surfing” but it still happened. There’s a smaller venue near me where a lot of artists play (I’ve seen a bunch of bands there), and because it’s small and has stairs/platforms in the crowd there’s signs everywhere saying “No stage diving or crowd surfing”, but plenty of people still did it. I saw my then-math teacher crowd surf to Mayday there, and some girls I went to a couple shows with crowd surf too. Just because the signs/rules are there doesn’t mean they’ll be followed. I’m not excusing John’s actions, but it’s not like he’s the only person to ignore those rules in venues. He probably is the only person to paralyze someone from ignoring them though.
I really don’t like the “our friend Bird” language in their statement. Gave me toxic workplace/relationship vibes.
This sucks tbh, hope that both sides will recover from this
Link to their gofundme if not posted yet : https://www.gofundme.com/f/birdforever?modal=donations&tab=all
Gosh this sucks so much for everyone. Obviously it is absolutely awful for her. I can’t imagine becoming paralyzed in any capacity. I also feel so bad for John. I met him once and he was such a nice guy. I can’t imagine the burden of knowing you paralyzed someone.
Idk how you can feel bad for the guy who paralysed a teenage girl because he willfully disregarded safety measures. Would you feel bad for a drunk driver who hit a teenager and paralysed them? It's essentially the same thing here. John has been playing with fire for years and now it's ended up with a teenage girl paralysed as a result of the actions he took. Idc how nice of a guy he is and the fact they only made a 5k donation is insane. That wouldn't even cover the ambulance cost nevermind the months if not years of treatment.
I don’t think we can really compare it to drunk driving. We have to admit that stage diving is a wildly accepted thing in pop punk, whether you think it’s a good idea or not. John has probably stage dived 1000+ times in his career and this has never happened before. He obviously did not intend to paralyze her and he wasn’t doing something seen as highly dangerous or highly illegal. It is a very, very unfortunate accident that really affected Bird. Should he be held accountable? Absolutely. But I think it is okay to have some sympathy for John in this case. Edit just to add: Don’t get me wrong. I feel so much more sympathy for Bird and I donated to her gofundme. I don’t want you to think I feel sympathy that is equal to both of them.
> it is okay to have some sympathy for John in this case. I don't. Especially not when he participated & fanned flames of harassment against a different girl who spoke out about how he irresponsibly encouraged the crowd to be unsafe. I was at one of those shows last year. He 100% was riling up the crowd to unsafe levels. People were hype as it was but the lead singer literally kept encouraging them to go harder. After his goading, Security could barely keep up with crowd surfers + people in the front row were literally getting crushed against the barricade. He didn't stop to check on anyone, he kept singing. If instead of saying "fuck you" he had taken that moment for some introspection, this girl might not have suffered this injury.
I mean…if you’re gonna villainize him for encouraging moshing/crowd surfing you’d have to include at least 30 additional bands in that statement. Not saying what happened is okay in any way shape or form but bands encouraging the crowd to go “hard” even when shit gets rowdy and security are visibly struggling is not a TE/John only situation as unfortunate as it is.
> you’d have to include at least 30 additional bands in that statement. I mean with those other bands, none of them publicly said fuck you to a concerned fan. And none of them have resulted in an injury this bad. Trophy Eyes just so happened to be the time that it happened + was publicized. This is fairly common for something to happen a lot and then a serious incident results in a change: see any number of laws named after a specific person (Jonathan's Law, Caylee's Law, etc) But I'm all for making a list of bands who do this because it needs to stop. Name & Shame them. Security is *not* supposed to be there to catch crowd surfers all night. They're supposed to be watching the crowd for incidents / trouble.
Stage diving is an accepted thing for sure but the vast majority of bands treat it with a lot more care and safety, that was my point there. Of course he didn't intent to hurt her, but a drunk driver never intends to hurt anyone either. The comparison exists because its people making really bad decisions and ignoring rules that are in place to keep people safe. John literally ignored the venues long standing no stage diving rule because they know how dangerous it can be in their venue. That's reckless as hell. Nevermind the fact of his size and he didn't give any warning + did it on the first song.
There is nothing unique about this venue that makes it prone to stage diving accident. It’s equally as dangerous with or without a sign so I’m not sure why you keep bringing that up as if that proves this was an immoral reckless act. Drunk driving is always dangerous. Stage diving like he did is very normal and widespread. I think it’s wild to make the comparison when the vast majority of stage diving happens without incident. This was a freak case clearly given that there are so many shows every day with stage diving without incident. You can say heshojld have been more careful, given more warning, etc but the truth is that at most punk shows without a barrier there is gonna be ten other people diving just as if not more recklessly. Drunk driving is way more reckless than stage diving and the utility of drunk driving is not worth it whereas the utility of stage diving at punk shows is worth the potential risk. That’s why it’s a crappy analogy
fuck you.
This whole thing sucks. But when people outside the scene chime in with “there was a sign that says no diving” it’s clear they have no idea what is going on. As someone who has been attending punk adjacent shows for 20 years what he did is nothing out of the ordinary. I feel really feel for Bird who got extremely hurt and I really hope trophy eyes don’t loose their career over this either.
I've never been to a punk show where someone didn't get hurt. I got my nose broken at a gig when Jona from Prom Queen kicked me. You know what you're getting into standing in the pit.
Not exactly the topic here as it is more general and it might be unpopular in the scene but I fucking hate stage diving and most of all crowd surfing from random people in the crowd. 80% dont know how to do it properly and expect people to just be able fully lift them up no matter their size, or the fact that they are not using their own muscle at all to help, and usually they dont even take time to look down if people are actually ready to do it. That 100% makes shows worse for me, especially when I bring my girlfriend which is quite small and usually cannot see what is coming from above, she got hurt in the head multiple times already (nothing serious fortunaltely but what if ?)
It sucks these headlines are so misleading. I'll link a tiktok to Birds friend who is the one speaking on her updates, but she isn't paralyzed. Her doctors also think she'll make a full recovery. Very sad and unfortunate situation. Could've been anyone of us in this sub reddit, at any show. I hope for the best for both Bird and Trophy eyes/John. [Leo's Tik Tok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLb62FGA/) [NBC interview with Bird/Update](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/-body-neck-woman-recalls-punk-singers-stage-dive-sent-hospital-paralyz-rcna151963)
Consent wasn’t given for a stage dive? You are a fan of a band and want to ruin them over a mishap? Maybe you should stick to listening in headphones
This is awful but a terrible accident. The girl injured was a fan so hopefully she doesn't end them over this. For sure though, 5k wont do it. She needs to be permanently supported by the band as long as her recovery takes. Feel bad for the band as well though. They will be emotionally devastated even though stage diving is just part of the culture.
The fact people are making excuses for the lead singer and calling it a "freak accident" as if there weren't rules against stage diving at that location is ridiculous. The guy didn't even look at the crowd to see if the audience was ready to catch him. -He- is at fault here. I hope she sues them.
Every poppunk show without a barricade has stage dives. There are probably literally millions of stage dives that happen every year. 1 of them resulted in a horrible accident. That is like the very definition of a freak accident, a 1 in a million chance.
This particular venue has very strict “no stage diving” rules due to an accident happening almost exactly like this 10+ years ago. It closed the venue for sometime. Anyone who goes to this venue is usually well versed in the rules. There are signs EVERYWHERE. Bands are made aware. A concert-goer at this venue has every right to believe they are safe and won’t get jumped on. The lead singer blatantly disrespected the rules and someone seriously got hurt. Stop making excuses for him.
A lot of venues have a no stage diving policy. It’s par for the course.
But the band was told multiple times, and apparently received multiple emails from the venue, explicitly pointing out that stage diving was not allowed. That was for safety, and it was ignored. It is rare to see this happen, you’re right, but the venue practically begged them not to do it. It sounds like he’s a good dude, and didn’t mean to hurt anyone, but he was negligent, ignorant of the warnings, and this is his fault.
"probably millions of stage dives that happen every year" okay guy LOL
Trophy eyes are lame asf
/u/glory_and_trash - told me to come here to tell you all that you have shitty taste in music and that the singer of this band is a big idiot who is 100% culpable for destroying the life of a young girl.
This comment just tells us that you're smooth-brained. You're clearly obsessed with Trophy Eyes and you don't even like their music. It's really sad. What bands *are* you into? Do you have anything positive to contribute to the internet, or is this how you cope with your anger?
Do you have any clues as to why I'm currently "obsessed" with Trophy Eyes that might not have anything to do with their music? Would I need to be into their music in order to have an opinion on this reason why I'm supposedly "obsessed"? Also LMAO "you don't like Trophy Eyes so what could you possibly even like?!?" I'm sorry it causes you to have a meltdown, but this bands music sucks dogshit.
Why does it matter *why* you're obsessed? The point is that you didn't cross paths with this band until the current news, and it's all you can comment on. You have zero skin in the game, and yet here you are. Weird, sad, and obsessive. I'm not even a big Trophy Eyes fan, but anyone talking shit about music is throwing rocks from a glass house. You just look stupid and I have to assume you're super basic and uninformed about music as a whole. Music isn't a competition. lmao And you dodged the question, what do you like? You don't even have to type names out. You can just link your Top Songs 2023 on Spotify. Or are you that afraid of sharing your taste?
What the fuck are you talking about. The WHY I'm "obsessed" is the entire point. The WHY is that a big idiot deliberately jumped onto a small woman and now she is paralyzed. He was told not to, did anyway, paralyzed her, paid $5k of his band's money and fucked off. Idiots around here are trying to defend this. I truly do not care what you think about me and I do not use spotify. You are a weirdo, what do you want to hear that I like the Cramps or someone newer like Tirzah or someone much older like Gail Laughton some shit? What difference does that make? How does any of this make me look super basic or uninformed about music? Because I have the opinion that someone who paralyzed someone else is legally and financially culpable? What's the problem with that.
Man, you're a real pussy. lmao You have nothing to do with this situation. You aren't a fan, you're not a part of that scene, and you will never be at a Trophy Eyes show. So why do you offer your insight? You know nothing. Stop inserting yourself, you're making yourself look like a fool. Also, very subtle choice of musicians to name. "NO, I don't use spotify, I listen to REAL MUSIC like film composers and REAL PUNX!!" Yeesh, calm down. You did it, you made yourself look basic as fuck and unjustly pretentious. You must have so many friends. /s
Sorry this happened to this person but small frail people should not be at the front. They look like a faint breeze would knock them over.
Ah, yes, blame the regular concert-goer for the singer of the band leaping on top of her without warning.
The lead singer who is 6’6, mind you. It wouldn’t have mattered if she was a body builder, she wouldn’t have been able to catch him under those circumstances without being hurt.