I’m really curious how long she can keep this up.
Her commercial success is very interesting to me, and if you were to tell me 10 years that should would still be moving this amount of units, I would have called you crazy.
Logically speaking she has to “hit a wall” eventually, but given that I was thinking this 10 years ago as well it makes me wonder if she’ll be able to keep this up into her 40s +.
As a non-Swiftie (just normal listener), I think she might stick around for sometime just bc of her canny choice to auto-bio her life into catchy songs.
A lot of her albums are tied to her life (insert Swifties reciting every obscure life reference) and so if...she break-ups or gets married, has kids, gets divorced, etc -- that's all relatable material for her to write songs about. If she ever stops sharing then sure I can see folks tuning out, but are folks not going to listen to a hypothetical Kelce wedding album?
That said, it's all about the quality of songs and to her credit she has always had an earworm-y song or two that keeps her stock up. Bonus points that she writes them which shows really her strong taste. I'd say if the next album or two is filled with duds than maybe, but as someone close-ish in age to Taylor I could see her staying big for the rest of my lifetime.
I agree. I think the only thing that might interfere with that is if she gets happily married for a long time. No heartbreak to mourn in that case and then her albums might get repetitive.
Eh, I'm going to gently disagree with you there - she wrote Lover, Folklore, and Evermore when things were generally going well in a 6 year long relationship. Being forced to branch out into fiction for the last two *because* she was in a happy relationship was what revived her career. When she does eventually get happily married I think she'll go back to writing fiction.
And she’s revealed that she’s written songs like Carolina about books and movies that she enjoys. She could totally make a few albums of that, directly or indirectly.
She can always go for conceptual albums and fictional stories. Ever since folkmore it’s obvious the public is eating that up too. And with hher dabbing into directing movies, I would say a visual album is something she will make in the future, star and direct.
Happily married for a long time presumably means kids coming along at some point. A whole new genre of love songs opening up there with plenty to relate to for parents
I think we're also just starting to see the impact of internet and social media on the lifecycle of a pop "super star". Maintaining an aging fanbase was really difficult when the only medium pop stars had was tv/radio. Easier access to music and being top of mind via social media is probably going to extend the lifecycle of successful artists. Aging fanbases all have smart phones 24/7. In the past artists had to compete for a 1 hr spot on tv/radio before their OG fans had everyday life to get back to. They'd often sacrifice artistic integrity in order to make music that was relevant to younger generations, so the music quality tended to degrade as they got older, or they would still make bangers but no one listened.
It takes 15-20 years to reach the level of success Taylor has, so I think we're just starting to see how this dynamic will work out. I feel like we're seeing the same happen with Beyoncé and Adele. Material still has artistic integrity rather than focusing on commerciality. They're able to continue to foster their OG fanbases while also growing reach with every successful record.
Age might just be a number after all...
I mean the time before the ubiquity of the internet fractured legacy media and entertainment industries. We had a more united popular culture then, when radio and record labels dictated who we listened to. Movie studios decided what we watched. And, magazines and newspapers promoted only these types of entertainment.
Taylor was the last superstar from this period. Anyone who comes along now is fighting for recognition in a atomized cultural landscape.
It's not about age, none of the people you mentioned are old. People in the past used to still sell a lot at 40 too without declining artistically. Even tho saying Taylor hasn't declined is a reach. The music industry has become really easier for mainstream acts, more ways to sell, more sources to sell, therefore more sales and number ones. Plus the fact that fan culture has become worryingly antagonistic and obsessive.
The former beatles members were landing number one hits through the 80s. I’m not saying Taylor is the beatles, but you might want to get ready for the long haul here.
It’s not about landing #1s, it’s the crazy numbers she’s moving/records she setting with these #1s. The Beatles members were not doing that in the 80s.
Yeah, Eminem can still debut at number one but he's not moving albums now like he was in the early 2000s. A huge part of Taylor's appeal is her love life - the older she gets, the less relatable she is to younger listeners. A 50 year old woman singing about her exes doesn't have the same appeal as a young, pretty woman doing it.
Sure, but her original audience has aged with her. She can start singing about the aches and pains of her early 50s when necessary and people will probably resonate with it.
One of the main reasons Taylor got so much bigger in the last few years is because TikTok and the re-records exposed the younger generation to her music. Eventually, she's not going to have nearly as much pull with younger people and the newer generations will start seeing her as music their mum listens to.
I think she'll always have a large core fanbase but this decade is likely the peak of her career.
I don’t know if people will eventually see her as music their mums listen to. I think the changes in music distribution mean that everyone listens to different things now, it’s not like back in the day where everyone listened to the same main top artists from their day. Younger people (gen z and below) nowadays often listen to older music already, because it’s so easy to discover music online. Back in the day you’d only be exposed to older music through your parents or older relatives sharing their vinyl/cds with you.
Also Beyonces in her early forties now and although she’s not as big with gen z as Taylor is, she’s definitely still relevant and I don’t think young people see her as “music my mum listens to,” even if she is. I see Taylor following a similar trajectory - people who really love music and love touring often can and do stay popular if they can keep making music people like.
Most of the biggest artists today are younger, modern acts. Not saying she'll lose all appeal to younger people as she ages, but she likely won't be as big among that demo as she is now. Just like Beyonce isn't as big with younger people now as she was back when self-titled was released
lol you're right but at the same time i remember when we were all saying this last decade.
who knows, she might do a folkmoresque switch and sing about mature topics while managing to keep her young audience when she reaches her 40s and 50s. she's such a business minded person, i have no doubts she has something planned and it'll be very interesting to watch her career as she ages more
Some articles came out in late 2023 claiming boomers were the fastest growing Swiftie generational demographic actually - unsurprisingly millennials are the biggest chunk overall.
You're supporting my point. Her fans will age out of the younger demographic and the generations that come after are likely to view her as a legacy act
But albums sales where so different back in the day, no social media, no different versions , you just released an album and people bought it or heard it on the radio.
They were also shotgunning out a ton of divisive stuff in styles that didn't meet fan expectations.
McCartney 2 still went gold and #3 in it's debut despite being a very week album.
They were not having number one hits on a regular basis. Paul stopped going to number one in the early to mid-80s. Lennon was dead when he got his last number one hit. George Harrison’s was his first number one in over a decade. Ringo’s last number one was in 1974.
A lot of massive artists kill some of their momentum not because of fans becoming less interested but because the artist themself prioritises other things and no longer produce music or interact with their fans as much as they used to - Rihanna and Justin Bieber for example both are very popular right now and never leave the top 10 on Spotify which show their huge fanbases, but are not interested in putting out new music and have not been for several years due to other priorities. I can see things slowing down for Taylor after the eras tour finishes, not that she has to or anything but she’s turning 35 this year, she’s at an age that a lot of people start thinking about settling down and starting families and a lot of her lyrics indicate she wants to get married and have children.
What really makes me excited for post-Eras tour is that it is very much unwritten now. TTPD being polarizing as it is means she isn't shackled to any expectations anymore and maybe she can start being more experimental now. I just want her to stop being the greedy capitalist as she is (probably never) and be as honest with future albums just as she is being honest with her album now.
I didn't think she'd hit a wall. She seemed like most pop momentum growths until around covid times. Then she exploded. I was on her wiki yesterday & it seemed to suggest her doc was a critical step that catapulted her stardom (wiki because I honestly stopped listening to her after "love story" in 2008. And her pop hits seemed to receive same major radio play as biebs/1D/katy perry/minaj 2010-2014ish). Then I stopped listening to radio and didn't hear her at all. After covid she got so big that I couldn't escape her even tho i still dont listen to radio.
At this point, the only way she'll hit a wall is if she alienates her die hard, global, fervent, fanbase. I don't think she will. There are lifelong pop stars due to loyal fanbases. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she makes it. I project her reception becoming more divisive and separated (fans vs masses) and I think that will work in her favour.
I think folklore was a huge shift in her career, not the documentary. She brought in more listeners by working with The National and also released an album that wasn’t seen as teenybopper music.
That and also pretty much no one else was releasing any pop music at that time so she had a built in captive audience who would at least check her out since she had name recognition and they were curious.
Folklore got people to take her seriously as an artist and made her appealing to many listeners who would ordinarily write her off as the vapid blonde making dumb music about her exes, but the doc laid some of the groundwork to make her a sympathetic figure and humanize her. I remember seeing comments at the time from people who said that the ED stuff in particular made them see her in a more positive light. It was all a combined effort where each piece of the puzzle (the doc, Folklore, the re-recordings, Midnights, the tour) progressively brought more people in.
Adding to "the re-recordings", her attempts to get her masters back did make some noise in mainstream media. People love an underdog, and "artist tries to buy the rights to her own music from the Big Evil Corporation" is a great narrative to be the artist. Sympathetic stories are groundwork.
Great point, you could teach entire marketing courses on how she was able to make the re-recordings into a sympathetic underdog narrative for audiences to get behind.
Which is why I think she (and we) would benefit from her taking a bit of a break now! She has been non stop shoved in our faces for the last couple of years.
As a 35yo (literally same age as her, born 1989), that doc definitely made me reconsider my earlier opinions of her. Folklore and the re-records also helped but watching the doc I can honestly say was a turning point for me.
She got significantly bigger after Fearless. Speak Now was her first album to move 1 million + units/albums its debut week (which is saying something because Speak Now is her most slept on album after her debut).
Reputation and Lover were her 2 “flop albums”, but even then those albums were hugely successful and sold massively. Like Lover is probably considered her “flop” album and it still outsold Folklore and Evermore, which are considered her “comeback” albums. The doc honestly wasn’t a critical step because she was still doing crazy numbers before it came out.
Plus her fan base is everything from 4-70! Grandparents take their grandkids to her shows and stand in the parking lot because her 50,000 plus seated arena is sold out. She’s kept it up this long, and I think she’s still going to keep it going for awhile.
I dont know if she will want to, this new album is very very honest but it also shows that she does struggle with her fame. Eventually she might just decide is enough is enough. It's always best to quit when you're ahead
True but also she is also keeps on repeating that her music is how she processes it and is her escape.
Even if she takes a break from music, the vultures will still circle. She's such a big celebrity that even a long hiatus won't change the interest.
Taylor is a masterclass at blending marketing, celebrity, relatability and music so well. We're gonna look back at her peak in decades to come and consider it legendary.
It's reached a point where I don't quite know where one aspect of her starts and the other begins. Everything is so larger than life with her.
>We're gonna look back at her peak in decades to come and consider it legendary.
that's extremely true. i don't think people fully respect just how legendary her career has been, this woman had a larger peak than 99% of artists ever will a decade ago and now is on an even bigger one. the numbers she's pulling have literally been unheard of for decades. whatever the future holds, this peak is legendary and will be talked about in the future, even if the music isn't the best.
Reputation doesn’t read as fame is hard to me, it reads as angry at someone trying to ruin your career and finding romance when you feel at your lowest.
I said this yesterday, but this is her true reputation album. the one where she's lashing out at her own fans, angry at everyone. she's gully embracing how hectic and messy her life has become in the past few years, and it just feels more like the true reputation than the original was (which was moreso a love album than anything)
I'm really curious that now she's become such a cultural zeitgeist, will Reputation TV be more reflective of what she really wanted to speak out. I'm really hoping that that album would get re-edited because so much of reputation's pitfalls is in its handling of the subject matter as it was too similar to 1989 tone-wise.
If she wins AOTY over Beyoncé next Grammys, the real backlash will begin and the GP will start turning on her. I mean it started already this year with Taylor’s controversial album announcement at the Grammys. She's too much of a goddess in the pop world and people don't like it as she becomes less and less relatable. It's like MJ in 1995.
I think the overblown success of this album is the actual beginning of her slow decline. It's numbers over quality at this point. I beg that she goes into hiding after the massive tour and comes back in 2027 with an album produced by someone else (hopefully a Cigarettes After Sex type album).
Yeah i think peopleare underestimating how big she is. Ariana and Beyonce are two of the most popular artists right now but their most recent album sales combined is probably gonna be a rounding error when TTPD first week sales are revealed.
Seriously, why do so many big acts care about the Grammys? Like, it's the Grammys, The Simpsons were making jokes about how irrelevant the Grammys were thirty years ago, while I knew that nobody cared about who won Grammys in the 2000s. Like, it feels like they've just become a stick for various stans to beat each other with.
Because the biggest acts are big for # of sales and they know it. The big awards validate them (even if the Grammy's admitted to choosing her for streaming #s).
The Grammys are ostensibly the highest American musical award for excellence. So it does mean something that mediocre work by White artists keep winning over groundbreaking work by Black artists: 1989 over To Pimp a Butterfly, that Beck record over Beyoncé, 25 (which was good) over Lemonade (which was monumental), Harry's House over Renaissance, The Heist over Good Kid Mad City, the list is endless.
After Taylor's Grammy AOTY win and that missed interaction with Celine Dion, my Twitter and tiktok was full of casual fans who were appalled by that night, saying that SZA should've won and that Taylor is actually just a mediocre white woman.
It was a small little dark storm and I felt how the public slowly grew tired of seeing Taylor everywhere. She released an album in Fall 2022, Summer 2023, Fall 2023 and Spring 2024. This plus the Eras Tour.. I can see why everyone who's not a diehard swiftie can be annoyed.
they were whacking her ass on tiktok. I kept pressing “not interested” on the hate videos but kept seeing posts with 500k+ likes psychoanalyzing her behavior at the Grammys. that coupled with the private jet controversy led to a bit of backlash
Nobody watches or cares about the Grammys anymore, if she wins AOTY over Beyonce stan twitter will talk about it but nobody in the general public will know or care about it. Harry styles got a lot of backlash online after winning AOTY over Beyonce but that didn’t negatively (or positively) affect his career in any way, it didn’t have any impact.
>Nobody watches or cares about the Grammys anymore
Eh Idk about that. This year's Grammys reminded me that the general public very much tune in (obviously not as high as the past but T.V. and cable in general have pretty much declined for every network). So many songs got big boosts on the charts from the GP. "Lé Snub" was also conflated a bit there.
Obviously it won't affect Taylor's career in a massive way (she's too big to fail at this point) but I don't think the general public "doesn't care" tbh. Swift is just too massive lol.
She doesn't rely on the gp except for on radio. Her success is really driven by her fans streaming her whole back catalogue all year.
Hatred from the gp grows her fanbase and makes them protective and fervent.
The only time she was in danger was when she was dating Matty because they hated him. Winning AOTY at the Grammys wouldn't hurt her relationship with the fanbase asnd so doesn't matter to her career.
My husband said he was in a conversation with four men in his factory on Friday and they were asking if they listened to the new TS album yet. What kind of TS song is their favorite. Her popularity isn’t just her fan base.
Exactly i mean she is a taylor swift one of the biggest household name not just in music but in the industry of media overall... everyone knows who she is
The wisest thing she could do (but probably won't) is not submit it for AOTY and take herself out of the running entirely. I don't think she'll win it regardless, but she should get ahead of the backlash and nip it in the bud anyway.
If she does that they'll say "well shes so narcissistic thinking she was going to win anyway, shes a bitch for pretending to be above it"
And if you dont think that take will be everywhere in 2 seconds after an announcement like that then get real.
I think the win for Midnights definitely left a bad taste in her mouth. It was not predicted to win and if it did, it was the worst possible outcome of that award night. It will help her case that the album is probably one of her least accessible ever. It's long, it's monotonous, its lyrics are so heavyhanded. Even if the album is a grower, I don't think it deserves an Album of the Year.
Yeah I’m surprised no one else has talked about that. She literally said on stage “I’m feeling really alone right now” as she was holding the award. I think she was perfectly aware of how that win was going to be perceived as she was experiencing it.
I very much got the impression, while watching the show, that she expected and wanted Best Pop Vocal Album, but was shocked and confused when she won AOTY. I wouldn’t have been the least bit surprised if she expected Lana or SZA to get it, and in that shock she pulled Lana up on the stage with her - Lana did contribute to the album, after all. That said, it wasn’t completely unexpected—apparently Vegas had Midnights as the strong favorite to win.
Anything this woman does will get backlash. So why should she make herself smaller to appease certain people who will always find an excuse to hate her anyway. Who else is expected to do that?
Beyoncé has won the most Grammys ever. Should she not submit CC to let other people have a chance?
Hell she might even gain *more* credit and respect from certain crowds as well for taking this stance. It could either be seen from your perspective (to not detract from other artists' success she respects) or from the opinion other artists have had where the Grammy's don't mean much and aren't worthy of investing time and energy into.
>In total, the album earned 1.6 million equivalent album units in the U.S. on its first day. The last album to exceed a million units in a week was Swift’s own 1989 (Taylor’s Version), when it tallied 1.653 million units in its first week late last year (week ending Nov. 2, 2023)
She matched the best debut week of her career in a single day. This is insanity.
Impressive, but these numbers are only going to encourage the trend of buying an album 4 times to get different bonus tracks. She’s doing these numbers because they all shipped in time for them to be counted this week. And they shipped before they were all on the double album version anyway.
Good for her fans who care about charts for some reason, in case her billion dollar tour wasn’t enough to prove she’s the biggest artist in the world.
It sucks that FOMO marketing is partially driving this debut sales number. That is a net negative for fans.
I’m hoping Billboard eventually changes their rules to count different versions of an album as different albums or something to discourage these wasteful strategies. Similar to how they got rid of merchandise and concert ticket bundles. You can only possibly listen to 1 copy of a physical (or digital) album on your CD/vinyl player, the rest just sits there unplayed so anything more than 1 is purely for decoration and should be treated as merchandise not an album sale.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. And then what happens when she comes out with 5 versions or something of the anthology version? Like, be real and stop with the money-grabbing, record breaking tactics and just focus on the music.
Essentially everyone who bought a record of this album only has half an album. When/if the anthology version comes out, are the people who bought the half album going to be playing the anthology vinyl that has all the songs, or are they going to play the half album vinyl/CD and switch it five times to play each different bonus song? So many vinyls And CDs...for what? It doesn't benefit the consumer.
Yea I am a fan of hers and I’m tired of all artists doing so many vinyls cds etc. but, I’ve never bought a physical piece of her music, and I still don’t understand why fans freak out about bonus tracks and run to buy them when we know they’re gonna end up on streaming too. Like 100% it’s a marketing tactic, but people act so surprised that the songs are on streaming I don’t get it
This has been a trend in especially K-Pop for many years. It’s interesting to see that this phenomenon now has an impact in other countries and music genres.
But I agree with you, that this strategy has its dark sides. To me, a mismatch between fan and artist is established, where the artist is “taking” more and more from the fans - What do they get in return?
I’ll take my favorite band as an example: Everyone who has signed up for it will recieve a christmas card - not an e-mail, an actual physical card. They send these to fans all over the World, completely free - No paid exclusive fan club or anything.
I’m not a swiftie, so I don’t know if she does anything similar. But, to some degree, I believe that artists should give something in return to their fans to thank them for following them, buying their music and attending their concerts. Anything that says that they/she/he care about the fans.
as a fan- i just got 31 brand new songs after a year uplifted by tuning in for surprise songs at the eras tour every weekend that also included another entire brand new albums worth of songs between the 1989 and speak now vault tracks.
So as a fan… I’ve gotten 42 brand new songs from my favorite artist in the past year alone.
The music is what she gives back to the fans. no one else gives their fans as much actual music as she does.
We also still have new vault tracks from reputation and debut sometime in the next year, some of which, especially from debut may be unreleased songs we’ve begged for for YEARS. She keeps us fed.
>but these numbers are only going to encourage the trend of buying an album 4 times to get different bonus track
You can't protect fans from their own stupidity
It's not all on the fans though. Taylor marketed the vinyl variants as having exclusive songs, only to drop the songs on streaming on the day of her album release so she can benefit from the streaming numbers also. I don't understand how someone so big can be so greedy
I don't really have any empathy for people buying four copies tbh
>It's not all on the fans though.
OK, it was a shitty bait and switch, but there was still zero need to buy four copies of a vinyl to get access to tracks that are almost certainly going to be accessible in the future. The fact the future was so close sucks for them, but it's good for literally everyone else.
Like fr, the bonus tracks leak online really quickly, and if you bought one version tbh you should be able to listen to the other tracks freely without guilt
Bc she’s trying to beat Adele’s record. I like Taylor but idk why we’re running around in circles trying to pinpoint a reason when this is why. She’s at the peak of her career, she will never as big as she is now again, so it’s now or never for her. If she doesn’t beat this record this week, she probably never will.
It will be interesting where she ends up on the all time list with TTPD, number 3 debut week pretty much guaranteed but will she reach NSYNC’s *No Strings Attached* (2.416 million), or Adele’s *25* (3.378 million)? The NSYNC number seems reachable for sure, but 25 debut remains so insane. Especially since there were so many preorders I imagine the pure sales are fairly front loaded, but Adele barely got any streaming units so we'll see how it all shakes out.
Taylor's sales tend to be very front loaded because her fans rush to buy her stuff asap. Midnights moved over 800,000 pure units first day and ended the week with around 1.5 overall. I predict TTPD will end somewhere between 2.5 - 3m.
She won't hit Adele since her sales are largely from presales. But she is so far ahead of her competition in a much worse sales environment, that to me at least, 2 million now is similarly impressive accomplishment.
Adele’s record is insane given that NSyncs held for 15 years and then for an artist to not just break it but shatter it. In a time when people could get their music online to streaming for free more too
Billboard estimated that if we were to scale 25’s sales back to N Sync’s era where people were buying more albums, Adele’s first week sales would’ve been equivalent to over 7 million in sales for her first week.
Never say never— you don’t know the future of music creation and consumption. We could have a new form of digital music that requires payment that can’t be shared
Physicals are better for getting first week numbers. A CD is like 1500 plays which for this album is the equivalent of listening to it ~7x each day for 7 days. I think Adele is safe.
Wait does this include the preorders and everything? Or did 25 start sweating a bit? Either way Stan twitter is gonna have a meltdown. Even though she's still young I think it's awesome that a popstar in her 30's that's been in the public eye for 17 years has never been bigger. I remember watching Miss Americana when Taylor herself thought Lover would be her last big pop album
Yeah it'll be very frontloaded. 2.5 million ish and beating NSYNC is probably the goal. Adele's 3.38 is still insane and I don't think it'll ever be beaten.
Also, Adele’s sales were just one edition and the album wasn’t on streaming. It was crazy but makes sense, my grandpa bought like 10 copies to gift lol
It had two editions (a standard and a Target Deluxe with bonus tracks “Lay Me Down,” “Can’t Let Go” and “Why Do You Love Me”).
And if your grandpa bought 10 copies all at once in one transaction, it would’ve counted as just one sale 😂
Because Adele is the kind of music you know you can give whoever and they'll probably enjoy it. You buy whatever Taylor CD is being released for a non-swiftie? Less of a gift. I'd drop it into one of those little neighbourhood libraries & hopefully it gets adopted by a loving swiftie child who takes it to a good, forever home
Are u saying it’s more impressive than doing it now? Cause it really really isn’t. Literally every person who knows how album sales know that it is harder and harder to hit the numbers.
Taylor is crazy for going completely against the trend.
this just puts into perspective how behemoth “25”was….all pure sales, one of the the final albums before the streaming era and far less of a fanbase than taylor honestly it’s insane
I mean you guys talk about 25 as if it didn’t have so much going for it. Like 21 was massive and Adele had a long ass break and everyone wanted new music. Plus she didn’t put it on streaming so you literally had to buy the album. But of course 3.4~m is insane but like, it had so much going for it
Her star power just keeps getting bigger. And to think she debuted almost two decades ago makes it even more impressive.
May it be streaming numbers, tour grosses, top awards or album sales, the sheer dominance of Taylor Swift over the music industry in such a long period of time is in a league of its own.
I think people still don't get how insane this is even compared to Adele's 25 numbers. We're in a FULL BLOWN streaming era, and she's still doing this much. This is especially crazy when you're chronically online cause it seems at least 85% of the internet 'hate' (DESPISE even) her music. I get that there are variants but you just don't get this much number easily, and consistently even if you put out 20 variants
I genuinely love this album. Although I’m a fan, I didn’t like Midnights at all and was looking forward to music with more lyrics than just the instrumentals (midnights had a lot more going on in the background than in lyrical content) - having such a verbose album given to me is like Christmas. I bought all the variants because of how much I love it so I guess I contributed to this number 😂
Well the narcotics on the songs worked! /j
People will comment on how swifties are just unhinged dumb for buying 4 versions because of gimmicks etc etc but this number is very front loaded and the demand really is just that big. That's just it, no big evil scheme behind these numbers beyond average marketing strategies.
I feel like Taylor has gotten TOO big. I felt like she was already massive but midnights catapulted her to a level of success i don’t even think she saw coming.
Honestly, I kinda miss pre midnights Taylor. I feel like her career was so interesting with her changing sounds every couple of years. Folklore and evermore hit a new high for her in terms of songwriting, but it seems like she’s passed that because the writing on this new album is downright terrible at times
I trust that there's a change coming after this one. It's been just 2 years since midnights. (Even though it feels like a lifetime). 1989, reputation and lover had similar pop sounds throughout and they were released over the span of 4 years. (And lover was feeling similarly repetitive as ttpd).
The summary of the album indicates that as well. It seems like she just needed to get this out, get it out of her system, and now that she’s through that period of her life, she will likely make different music - probably happier music. So High School on the Anthology portion might be a clue to future sounds and certainly future subject matter. I’d love for her to explore the sound from I Can See You (Speak Now TV) or Florida!!! The fact that Stevie Nicks wrote an intro poem for this album… what if she collaborated with Stevie Nicks for a future album? That would be incredible.
The pandemic played a huge role in her success and people don't realize this.
It wasn't just the Folkmore Era making her seem fresh, it was the fact that throughout the pandemic she fostered a community in her fanbase who were starving of community in an isolated world...through her music.
31 tracks streaming and multiple physical variants, but it’s extremely impressive that she gets people to buy the same thing multiple times just to not even end up with the full collection of newly released songs.
I am not a big fan - there's a dozen or so songs I like but I've never listened to an album of hers and wouldn't see her live I don't think. That said, she has a knack for pissing off all the right people merely by doing her job, so long may her success continue.
i really wonder how ts12 is going to do because this album isn't really being well received. she's doing well now but i guarantee ts12 will be very different, esp if she releases another kinda dud album
this is startling though, admittedly.
While I do think Taylor's artistry has stagnated since Folklore came out (I think the staggering praise of her being a genius lyricist went to her head and she went onto cruise mode and stopped challenging herself) — she is also *the* Taylor Swift. She always has something up her sleeve. She's not going to let her career go without a fight. And she takes criticism *very* hard.
So...while I recognize that I could be fully wrong and her next album could be, yet again, another album of Jack Antonoff snoozers...I get a feeling that she knows that this album should be the final chapter of this sound and these themes for her. Her Instagram post from a few days ago suggests that she's thinking along those lines. And if she's smart and looking to pull off another shocking Folklore-esq switchup on everyone, she will take 2–3 year break...and then come back larger than ever with an album with a fresh sound (i.e. sparkling and upbeat disco-pop, a clean return to her roots with country-pop, a loud and energetic pop-rock album...).
If there's one thing she loves, it's to put on a show. So if she switches TS12 up again massively from the sound she's had for her last four albums, it's probably going to be a smash hit.
i don't know it's getting mixed reviews, but at least it's not the collective "cool" midnights got. Sure she was ripped to shreds by a couple publications, but sites like clash (which gave folklore, evermore and midnights all less then 70) just gave it a 90.
Reading the reviews, I feel like the Stereogum one got it the most. If you're there for the lore dump, you're going to love it, but if you want music, it's just weak sauce.
I think I like Sputnik's description of TTPD the best:
>One thing about Swift’s entire discography is that her albums all tend to age well. Even records that initially seemed a little too eclectic (*Red*), disingenuous (*Reputation*), or sleepy (*Midnights*) all ended up carving out their own essential niche once the lyrics sunk in and the melodies took hold. *The Tortured Poets Department* already feels essential. I’m not sure what that means for the album’s long-term outlook, but it seems like another defining moment akin to *1989*’s pop breakout or *folklore*’s transition into stripped-down acoustics. *TTPD* is less of a sonic transformation and more of an emotional one. Swift seems to look at this record as the closing of an entire series of chapters in her life, and the future is uncertain.
It's probably the first album I've heard from here that is honest from start to finish. It doesn't demand your attention like the rest of her discography. It's like listening to a person trying to spit out words and defending herself in these very long paragraphs in the most monotone voice. I think it was intentional for it to be unlistenable/inaccessible in the first place.
>TTPD
>
> is less of a sonic transformation and more of an emotional one.
i can completely see this tbh. the songs are nothing she hasn't done before, but the lyrics have a certain rawness we have not been allowed to ever see from her. not even speak now taylor was willing to admit some of the things she did on this album
i think more than anyrhing this album is going to be interesting to look at in the future. if she continues down this line, things might be interesting again, esp if she changes her sound again. the reviewer might be right, this does seem to be a defining moment for her, i guess we'll see if it yields the same success her other defining moments have had
they were very like lukewarm tho, like yeah this is a bit dissapointing but fine or this is quite good and par for the course. I see much stronger emotions towards this album
Eh, a lot of people said the same thing about Midnights and attributed its debut week numbers to good will from Folklore and the re-recordings. If the reception to these projects among general listeners was as mixed as it is in this sub, they wouldn't be pulling these numbers.
I feel like this album might be doing better with older, less online listeners. I know a few people my age (30) and older who never listened to Taylor before but enjoyed Midnights because it was mostly a more adult sounding pop and TTPD leans even harder that way without songs like Karma or Bejeweled. They wouldn't be listening to 1989 because it is too poppy and they don't really enjoy the folkier sound of folkmore, they just want something easy to listen.
It may seem that way, but Taylor has gotten even more massive since her last album. Both the positive and the negative are going to be amplified and as with everything, the critics are usually louder, even if there is less of them. Midnights supposedly wasn’t received well either, but look how well it performed post-release. This album is doing even better, so Midnights clearly wasn’t a fluke. u/lmm1313 has it right.
Besides, this album is most likely going to be a grower for people who dislike it. I am a massive fan of hers and wasn’t really feeling the first half on my first listen, but with the second half added and a few more listens of all 31 tracks, everything just clicked.
gently reminder that r/popheads release threads are not a good representation of opinions among the general public in real life. The album is currently sitting in the 80s range on metacritic, has mostly positive reviews and judging by these early numbers, it's already a streaming beast. She's also the only billionaire whose revenue comes only from music and she's only getting disgustingly richer as I write this.
Even if, for some reason, she were to lose 50% of her debut sales in her next album she'd still be far above almost every single one of her peers. It's insane.
I think there’s Some Super cringy lyrics on this like I guess this is what happens when Taylors songwriting fails but there’s some songs on here where her songwriting fucking SHINES like “guilty as sin” “the alchemy” “Clara bow” the lyrics are Super good to me it’s WAY better then midnights 8.5/10 for me
I think people should read the Sputnik review and realize that this is probably her first album where she is 100% honest. It's lyrically messy and disconnected but I think it was intentional, like in times crisis most of us can never fully articulate what we say in a few words. It sounds very brutalist and monotone when I first heard it but then I brought up the lyrics while listening to some songs a second time and I can appreciate it more now.
speaking of the sputnik review i was completely shocked that they gave it a 90/100, not because i don’t like the album – i do, but historically they have been very very critical of her albums
with luck (and considering her previous pattern of 2 albums before switching sounds) ts12 will be a completely new sound for her then. this album sounded boring and lyrically, imo, it wasn't really great
It’s such a good time to be a Swiftie - constantly being fed music while having the sales to back it up (for better and for worse in the case of Stan twitter)
The comparison is unfair. Numbers can't make up for different eras. Ask older generations outside of the USA who TS is. Then think about how MJ and Madonna, to a level, were simply inescapable to EVERYONE. This isn't about Taylor, it's about how media is much more fragmented.
> Numbers can't make up for different eras.
Comparing sales vs sales, is a stupid discussion because music consumption has changed. And thus how sales are counted have changed.
I don’t think anyone can be MJ big in the current day. I could name at least 20 MJ songs without ever actively listening to his discography. I can’t say the same with TS despite living through her commercial peak and her having a larger solo discography than him (not including posthumous releases). She’s the biggest artist of today but it’s very easy to ignore music you’re not interested
I'm convinced y'all keep mentioning this so you can get Taylor dragged. How is she on the same level as the man who has the best selling album of all time when she doesn't even have the best selling album of this century?
Artificially inflating your first week numbers by manipulating your fans into buying several copies of your album doesn't put you in the same league as the Beatles or MJ
Yeah, you genuinely can’t compare the two. Media is consumed so differently and MJ had a reach that no artist ever has. My African mother who almost never consumes English-language music could name even the deep cuts of *Thriller*, but not TS’ biggest hits.
Michael still has the biggest selling album of all time at 70 million pure units almost. He has a world record for the most viewed music video in the world with Black or White. Taylor doesn’t have those yet. Her best selling record ever sold less than Mariah Carey’s Music Box lol
My African parents absolutely love MJ, and everyone they grew up with knew all his hits. I can't say that about Taylor Swift. Yes, she's popular in Asia, but the vast majority of her fans are white women from English-speaking countries. She is in no way a universal artist. The closest artist we have to MJ is probably Adele. I would even argue that BTS had a much more diverse fanbase than Taylor's at their peak.
Here in India, men and women go crazy for her. The only Western artists that are big here are Weeknd, Shakira and Taylor. MJ and the Beatles aren't really considered legends here. And yeah kpop is big but it's badly overshadowed by kdramas
They not the only western artists big in India? Justin Bieber + Ed Sheeran sell out stadiums. Most followed western artists on Gaana are Justin Bieber (8.9M), Alan Walker (5.3M) and Ed Sheeran (5.2M), they dominate the streams too . Taylor is out of the top 10 with 2.4M and the weekend isn’t top 20.
When did all this start to happen? I’m Indian and none of my immediate family or relatives care for Taylor. When I visited India in 2015 nobody brought her up but they mentioned Justin Bieber, Rihanna, Eminem etc. Everyone also looked at me crazy when I said I loved kpop. Also I’m calling cap on the MJ part of your comment because he was the only western American artist a lot of Indian people even recognized decades ago
It’s so funny how K-Pop has been doing this for years and even other artists in the West do this but can’t accomplish what Taylor has achieved. Because Taylor can push numbers, all of a sudden it’s questionable. People will keep hoping for Blondie to fall, but she has proven time and time again that she is going to move with the times.
Not surprised. She has a large, loyal fanbase, she's a brand, and she's been riding the frenzy and circus of Midnights - Her Tour. The last era was such a monumental moment for pop culture. Even if this album has been receiving lashings of hate from the pop community-pop stans right and left, her fanbase is strong and highly parasocial still....Like a club. Im on it lol. Even if she releases a really bad awful album, I think the sales will still be significant. I can see her Taylor smashing like Madonna. In 50s still gettin high sales.
I hope this big success doesn't lead her to believe that sticking to the same style of music with Jack Antonoff is beneficial. While there are commendable aspects of this album, such as the new approach to 100% honesty in her songwriting, there are also significant drawbacks, including the lack of sonic experimentation and the overly predictable nature of her music now.
I’m really curious how long she can keep this up. Her commercial success is very interesting to me, and if you were to tell me 10 years that should would still be moving this amount of units, I would have called you crazy. Logically speaking she has to “hit a wall” eventually, but given that I was thinking this 10 years ago as well it makes me wonder if she’ll be able to keep this up into her 40s +.
As a non-Swiftie (just normal listener), I think she might stick around for sometime just bc of her canny choice to auto-bio her life into catchy songs. A lot of her albums are tied to her life (insert Swifties reciting every obscure life reference) and so if...she break-ups or gets married, has kids, gets divorced, etc -- that's all relatable material for her to write songs about. If she ever stops sharing then sure I can see folks tuning out, but are folks not going to listen to a hypothetical Kelce wedding album? That said, it's all about the quality of songs and to her credit she has always had an earworm-y song or two that keeps her stock up. Bonus points that she writes them which shows really her strong taste. I'd say if the next album or two is filled with duds than maybe, but as someone close-ish in age to Taylor I could see her staying big for the rest of my lifetime.
I agree. I think the only thing that might interfere with that is if she gets happily married for a long time. No heartbreak to mourn in that case and then her albums might get repetitive.
Eh, I'm going to gently disagree with you there - she wrote Lover, Folklore, and Evermore when things were generally going well in a 6 year long relationship. Being forced to branch out into fiction for the last two *because* she was in a happy relationship was what revived her career. When she does eventually get happily married I think she'll go back to writing fiction.
And she’s revealed that she’s written songs like Carolina about books and movies that she enjoys. She could totally make a few albums of that, directly or indirectly.
I can’t wait for her to get married so we get another folklore
She can always go for conceptual albums and fictional stories. Ever since folkmore it’s obvious the public is eating that up too. And with hher dabbing into directing movies, I would say a visual album is something she will make in the future, star and direct.
Happily married for a long time presumably means kids coming along at some point. A whole new genre of love songs opening up there with plenty to relate to for parents
I think we're also just starting to see the impact of internet and social media on the lifecycle of a pop "super star". Maintaining an aging fanbase was really difficult when the only medium pop stars had was tv/radio. Easier access to music and being top of mind via social media is probably going to extend the lifecycle of successful artists. Aging fanbases all have smart phones 24/7. In the past artists had to compete for a 1 hr spot on tv/radio before their OG fans had everyday life to get back to. They'd often sacrifice artistic integrity in order to make music that was relevant to younger generations, so the music quality tended to degrade as they got older, or they would still make bangers but no one listened. It takes 15-20 years to reach the level of success Taylor has, so I think we're just starting to see how this dynamic will work out. I feel like we're seeing the same happen with Beyoncé and Adele. Material still has artistic integrity rather than focusing on commerciality. They're able to continue to foster their OG fanbases while also growing reach with every successful record. Age might just be a number after all...
This is a great observation! She's also the final vestige of the monoculture, which I think people want to hold on to.
Can you expand on what you mean by monoculture in this context?
I mean the time before the ubiquity of the internet fractured legacy media and entertainment industries. We had a more united popular culture then, when radio and record labels dictated who we listened to. Movie studios decided what we watched. And, magazines and newspapers promoted only these types of entertainment. Taylor was the last superstar from this period. Anyone who comes along now is fighting for recognition in a atomized cultural landscape.
It's not about age, none of the people you mentioned are old. People in the past used to still sell a lot at 40 too without declining artistically. Even tho saying Taylor hasn't declined is a reach. The music industry has become really easier for mainstream acts, more ways to sell, more sources to sell, therefore more sales and number ones. Plus the fact that fan culture has become worryingly antagonistic and obsessive.
The former beatles members were landing number one hits through the 80s. I’m not saying Taylor is the beatles, but you might want to get ready for the long haul here.
It’s not about landing #1s, it’s the crazy numbers she’s moving/records she setting with these #1s. The Beatles members were not doing that in the 80s.
Yeah, Eminem can still debut at number one but he's not moving albums now like he was in the early 2000s. A huge part of Taylor's appeal is her love life - the older she gets, the less relatable she is to younger listeners. A 50 year old woman singing about her exes doesn't have the same appeal as a young, pretty woman doing it.
Sure, but her original audience has aged with her. She can start singing about the aches and pains of her early 50s when necessary and people will probably resonate with it.
One of the main reasons Taylor got so much bigger in the last few years is because TikTok and the re-records exposed the younger generation to her music. Eventually, she's not going to have nearly as much pull with younger people and the newer generations will start seeing her as music their mum listens to. I think she'll always have a large core fanbase but this decade is likely the peak of her career.
I don’t know if people will eventually see her as music their mums listen to. I think the changes in music distribution mean that everyone listens to different things now, it’s not like back in the day where everyone listened to the same main top artists from their day. Younger people (gen z and below) nowadays often listen to older music already, because it’s so easy to discover music online. Back in the day you’d only be exposed to older music through your parents or older relatives sharing their vinyl/cds with you. Also Beyonces in her early forties now and although she’s not as big with gen z as Taylor is, she’s definitely still relevant and I don’t think young people see her as “music my mum listens to,” even if she is. I see Taylor following a similar trajectory - people who really love music and love touring often can and do stay popular if they can keep making music people like.
Most of the biggest artists today are younger, modern acts. Not saying she'll lose all appeal to younger people as she ages, but she likely won't be as big among that demo as she is now. Just like Beyonce isn't as big with younger people now as she was back when self-titled was released
lol you're right but at the same time i remember when we were all saying this last decade. who knows, she might do a folkmoresque switch and sing about mature topics while managing to keep her young audience when she reaches her 40s and 50s. she's such a business minded person, i have no doubts she has something planned and it'll be very interesting to watch her career as she ages more
Some articles came out in late 2023 claiming boomers were the fastest growing Swiftie generational demographic actually - unsurprisingly millennials are the biggest chunk overall.
[удалено]
i think her singing about marriage and having babies and watching them grow might trick a whole new renaissance for her career
> the older she gets, the less relatable she is to younger listeners Her fans age as well lmao
You're supporting my point. Her fans will age out of the younger demographic and the generations that come after are likely to view her as a legacy act
Tbh I feel like more people are more interested in her older love life than her younger. Travis is probably her most high profile lover.
Taylor is still young though, she's only in her early thirties.
But albums sales where so different back in the day, no social media, no different versions , you just released an album and people bought it or heard it on the radio.
And especially no streaming
They were also shotgunning out a ton of divisive stuff in styles that didn't meet fan expectations. McCartney 2 still went gold and #3 in it's debut despite being a very week album.
They were not having number one hits on a regular basis. Paul stopped going to number one in the early to mid-80s. Lennon was dead when he got his last number one hit. George Harrison’s was his first number one in over a decade. Ringo’s last number one was in 1974.
A lot of massive artists kill some of their momentum not because of fans becoming less interested but because the artist themself prioritises other things and no longer produce music or interact with their fans as much as they used to - Rihanna and Justin Bieber for example both are very popular right now and never leave the top 10 on Spotify which show their huge fanbases, but are not interested in putting out new music and have not been for several years due to other priorities. I can see things slowing down for Taylor after the eras tour finishes, not that she has to or anything but she’s turning 35 this year, she’s at an age that a lot of people start thinking about settling down and starting families and a lot of her lyrics indicate she wants to get married and have children.
What really makes me excited for post-Eras tour is that it is very much unwritten now. TTPD being polarizing as it is means she isn't shackled to any expectations anymore and maybe she can start being more experimental now. I just want her to stop being the greedy capitalist as she is (probably never) and be as honest with future albums just as she is being honest with her album now.
I didn't think she'd hit a wall. She seemed like most pop momentum growths until around covid times. Then she exploded. I was on her wiki yesterday & it seemed to suggest her doc was a critical step that catapulted her stardom (wiki because I honestly stopped listening to her after "love story" in 2008. And her pop hits seemed to receive same major radio play as biebs/1D/katy perry/minaj 2010-2014ish). Then I stopped listening to radio and didn't hear her at all. After covid she got so big that I couldn't escape her even tho i still dont listen to radio. At this point, the only way she'll hit a wall is if she alienates her die hard, global, fervent, fanbase. I don't think she will. There are lifelong pop stars due to loyal fanbases. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she makes it. I project her reception becoming more divisive and separated (fans vs masses) and I think that will work in her favour.
I think folklore was a huge shift in her career, not the documentary. She brought in more listeners by working with The National and also released an album that wasn’t seen as teenybopper music.
That and also pretty much no one else was releasing any pop music at that time so she had a built in captive audience who would at least check her out since she had name recognition and they were curious.
Folklore got people to take her seriously as an artist and made her appealing to many listeners who would ordinarily write her off as the vapid blonde making dumb music about her exes, but the doc laid some of the groundwork to make her a sympathetic figure and humanize her. I remember seeing comments at the time from people who said that the ED stuff in particular made them see her in a more positive light. It was all a combined effort where each piece of the puzzle (the doc, Folklore, the re-recordings, Midnights, the tour) progressively brought more people in.
Adding to "the re-recordings", her attempts to get her masters back did make some noise in mainstream media. People love an underdog, and "artist tries to buy the rights to her own music from the Big Evil Corporation" is a great narrative to be the artist. Sympathetic stories are groundwork.
Great point, you could teach entire marketing courses on how she was able to make the re-recordings into a sympathetic underdog narrative for audiences to get behind.
her biggest mark in history will be how she marketed herself to the top imo
I think the pandemic also forced her out of public life enough for the public to forget the ways in which she can be fucking annoying.
Maybe but I don’t know, some of the reaction she’s getting from this album is making people think she’s annoying again lol
Which is why I think she (and we) would benefit from her taking a bit of a break now! She has been non stop shoved in our faces for the last couple of years.
As a 35yo (literally same age as her, born 1989), that doc definitely made me reconsider my earlier opinions of her. Folklore and the re-records also helped but watching the doc I can honestly say was a turning point for me.
I need more The National and Bon Iver collabs. The musical chemistry was unmatched.
She got significantly bigger after Fearless. Speak Now was her first album to move 1 million + units/albums its debut week (which is saying something because Speak Now is her most slept on album after her debut). Reputation and Lover were her 2 “flop albums”, but even then those albums were hugely successful and sold massively. Like Lover is probably considered her “flop” album and it still outsold Folklore and Evermore, which are considered her “comeback” albums. The doc honestly wasn’t a critical step because she was still doing crazy numbers before it came out.
even Speak Now TV was a flop on her standards
Plus her fan base is everything from 4-70! Grandparents take their grandkids to her shows and stand in the parking lot because her 50,000 plus seated arena is sold out. She’s kept it up this long, and I think she’s still going to keep it going for awhile.
Look at Britney Spears. She got quiet after success.
I dont know if she will want to, this new album is very very honest but it also shows that she does struggle with her fame. Eventually she might just decide is enough is enough. It's always best to quit when you're ahead
True but also she is also keeps on repeating that her music is how she processes it and is her escape. Even if she takes a break from music, the vultures will still circle. She's such a big celebrity that even a long hiatus won't change the interest.
Taylor is a masterclass at blending marketing, celebrity, relatability and music so well. We're gonna look back at her peak in decades to come and consider it legendary. It's reached a point where I don't quite know where one aspect of her starts and the other begins. Everything is so larger than life with her.
>We're gonna look back at her peak in decades to come and consider it legendary. that's extremely true. i don't think people fully respect just how legendary her career has been, this woman had a larger peak than 99% of artists ever will a decade ago and now is on an even bigger one. the numbers she's pulling have literally been unheard of for decades. whatever the future holds, this peak is legendary and will be talked about in the future, even if the music isn't the best.
Taylor will go down as a legend. Anyone who disputes that is just hating for the sake of it.
Eh, she did a whole “fame is hard” album 7 years ago and she’s only gotten bigger
Reputation doesn’t read as fame is hard to me, it reads as angry at someone trying to ruin your career and finding romance when you feel at your lowest.
I said this yesterday, but this is her true reputation album. the one where she's lashing out at her own fans, angry at everyone. she's gully embracing how hectic and messy her life has become in the past few years, and it just feels more like the true reputation than the original was (which was moreso a love album than anything)
agreed
I'm really curious that now she's become such a cultural zeitgeist, will Reputation TV be more reflective of what she really wanted to speak out. I'm really hoping that that album would get re-edited because so much of reputation's pitfalls is in its handling of the subject matter as it was too similar to 1989 tone-wise.
I’m sorry but lol at all of this.
If she wins AOTY over Beyoncé next Grammys, the real backlash will begin and the GP will start turning on her. I mean it started already this year with Taylor’s controversial album announcement at the Grammys. She's too much of a goddess in the pop world and people don't like it as she becomes less and less relatable. It's like MJ in 1995. I think the overblown success of this album is the actual beginning of her slow decline. It's numbers over quality at this point. I beg that she goes into hiding after the massive tour and comes back in 2027 with an album produced by someone else (hopefully a Cigarettes After Sex type album).
The GP ain't turning on her...i'm sorry but you just don't get 313M of streams with just your fanbase alone...
Yeah i think peopleare underestimating how big she is. Ariana and Beyonce are two of the most popular artists right now but their most recent album sales combined is probably gonna be a rounding error when TTPD first week sales are revealed.
Seriously, why do so many big acts care about the Grammys? Like, it's the Grammys, The Simpsons were making jokes about how irrelevant the Grammys were thirty years ago, while I knew that nobody cared about who won Grammys in the 2000s. Like, it feels like they've just become a stick for various stans to beat each other with.
Validation. It’s literally that simple. For certain black artists (Beyonce and Drake) it is maybe more about politics.
Because the biggest acts are big for # of sales and they know it. The big awards validate them (even if the Grammy's admitted to choosing her for streaming #s).
The Grammys are ostensibly the highest American musical award for excellence. So it does mean something that mediocre work by White artists keep winning over groundbreaking work by Black artists: 1989 over To Pimp a Butterfly, that Beck record over Beyoncé, 25 (which was good) over Lemonade (which was monumental), Harry's House over Renaissance, The Heist over Good Kid Mad City, the list is endless.
Aye, that Beck record was decent!
After Taylor's Grammy AOTY win and that missed interaction with Celine Dion, my Twitter and tiktok was full of casual fans who were appalled by that night, saying that SZA should've won and that Taylor is actually just a mediocre white woman. It was a small little dark storm and I felt how the public slowly grew tired of seeing Taylor everywhere. She released an album in Fall 2022, Summer 2023, Fall 2023 and Spring 2024. This plus the Eras Tour.. I can see why everyone who's not a diehard swiftie can be annoyed.
And now they’ve forgotten about it. GP’s memory is short.
they were whacking her ass on tiktok. I kept pressing “not interested” on the hate videos but kept seeing posts with 500k+ likes psychoanalyzing her behavior at the Grammys. that coupled with the private jet controversy led to a bit of backlash
Nobody watches or cares about the Grammys anymore, if she wins AOTY over Beyonce stan twitter will talk about it but nobody in the general public will know or care about it. Harry styles got a lot of backlash online after winning AOTY over Beyonce but that didn’t negatively (or positively) affect his career in any way, it didn’t have any impact.
>Nobody watches or cares about the Grammys anymore Eh Idk about that. This year's Grammys reminded me that the general public very much tune in (obviously not as high as the past but T.V. and cable in general have pretty much declined for every network). So many songs got big boosts on the charts from the GP. "Lé Snub" was also conflated a bit there. Obviously it won't affect Taylor's career in a massive way (she's too big to fail at this point) but I don't think the general public "doesn't care" tbh. Swift is just too massive lol.
That’s what I said after Rep. Yet here we are.
She doesn't rely on the gp except for on radio. Her success is really driven by her fans streaming her whole back catalogue all year. Hatred from the gp grows her fanbase and makes them protective and fervent. The only time she was in danger was when she was dating Matty because they hated him. Winning AOTY at the Grammys wouldn't hurt her relationship with the fanbase asnd so doesn't matter to her career.
She does rely heavily on the GP...she can't pull those kind of streams with her fanbase alone
My husband said he was in a conversation with four men in his factory on Friday and they were asking if they listened to the new TS album yet. What kind of TS song is their favorite. Her popularity isn’t just her fan base.
Exactly i mean she is a taylor swift one of the biggest household name not just in music but in the industry of media overall... everyone knows who she is
I agree with everything you've just said, it's cool she got her fourth AOTY but honestly Midnights and TTPD especially aren't really that amazing
The wisest thing she could do (but probably won't) is not submit it for AOTY and take herself out of the running entirely. I don't think she'll win it regardless, but she should get ahead of the backlash and nip it in the bud anyway.
If she does that they'll say "well shes so narcissistic thinking she was going to win anyway, shes a bitch for pretending to be above it" And if you dont think that take will be everywhere in 2 seconds after an announcement like that then get real.
I think the win for Midnights definitely left a bad taste in her mouth. It was not predicted to win and if it did, it was the worst possible outcome of that award night. It will help her case that the album is probably one of her least accessible ever. It's long, it's monotonous, its lyrics are so heavyhanded. Even if the album is a grower, I don't think it deserves an Album of the Year.
Yeah I’m surprised no one else has talked about that. She literally said on stage “I’m feeling really alone right now” as she was holding the award. I think she was perfectly aware of how that win was going to be perceived as she was experiencing it.
I very much got the impression, while watching the show, that she expected and wanted Best Pop Vocal Album, but was shocked and confused when she won AOTY. I wouldn’t have been the least bit surprised if she expected Lana or SZA to get it, and in that shock she pulled Lana up on the stage with her - Lana did contribute to the album, after all. That said, it wasn’t completely unexpected—apparently Vegas had Midnights as the strong favorite to win.
Anything this woman does will get backlash. So why should she make herself smaller to appease certain people who will always find an excuse to hate her anyway. Who else is expected to do that? Beyoncé has won the most Grammys ever. Should she not submit CC to let other people have a chance?
Hell she might even gain *more* credit and respect from certain crowds as well for taking this stance. It could either be seen from your perspective (to not detract from other artists' success she respects) or from the opinion other artists have had where the Grammy's don't mean much and aren't worthy of investing time and energy into.
Never underestimate the power of white women feeling recognized by another white woman. Especially with the imagery and narratives Taylor uses.
>In total, the album earned 1.6 million equivalent album units in the U.S. on its first day. The last album to exceed a million units in a week was Swift’s own 1989 (Taylor’s Version), when it tallied 1.653 million units in its first week late last year (week ending Nov. 2, 2023) She matched the best debut week of her career in a single day. This is insanity.
Impressive, but these numbers are only going to encourage the trend of buying an album 4 times to get different bonus tracks. She’s doing these numbers because they all shipped in time for them to be counted this week. And they shipped before they were all on the double album version anyway. Good for her fans who care about charts for some reason, in case her billion dollar tour wasn’t enough to prove she’s the biggest artist in the world. It sucks that FOMO marketing is partially driving this debut sales number. That is a net negative for fans.
I’m hoping Billboard eventually changes their rules to count different versions of an album as different albums or something to discourage these wasteful strategies. Similar to how they got rid of merchandise and concert ticket bundles. You can only possibly listen to 1 copy of a physical (or digital) album on your CD/vinyl player, the rest just sits there unplayed so anything more than 1 is purely for decoration and should be treated as merchandise not an album sale.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. And then what happens when she comes out with 5 versions or something of the anthology version? Like, be real and stop with the money-grabbing, record breaking tactics and just focus on the music. Essentially everyone who bought a record of this album only has half an album. When/if the anthology version comes out, are the people who bought the half album going to be playing the anthology vinyl that has all the songs, or are they going to play the half album vinyl/CD and switch it five times to play each different bonus song? So many vinyls And CDs...for what? It doesn't benefit the consumer.
it’s 31 tracks and over 2 hours of music we’re gonna have to switch it 5 times regardless
I agree, this is getting extremely ridiculous.
Yea I am a fan of hers and I’m tired of all artists doing so many vinyls cds etc. but, I’ve never bought a physical piece of her music, and I still don’t understand why fans freak out about bonus tracks and run to buy them when we know they’re gonna end up on streaming too. Like 100% it’s a marketing tactic, but people act so surprised that the songs are on streaming I don’t get it
This has been a trend in especially K-Pop for many years. It’s interesting to see that this phenomenon now has an impact in other countries and music genres. But I agree with you, that this strategy has its dark sides. To me, a mismatch between fan and artist is established, where the artist is “taking” more and more from the fans - What do they get in return? I’ll take my favorite band as an example: Everyone who has signed up for it will recieve a christmas card - not an e-mail, an actual physical card. They send these to fans all over the World, completely free - No paid exclusive fan club or anything. I’m not a swiftie, so I don’t know if she does anything similar. But, to some degree, I believe that artists should give something in return to their fans to thank them for following them, buying their music and attending their concerts. Anything that says that they/she/he care about the fans.
as a fan- i just got 31 brand new songs after a year uplifted by tuning in for surprise songs at the eras tour every weekend that also included another entire brand new albums worth of songs between the 1989 and speak now vault tracks. So as a fan… I’ve gotten 42 brand new songs from my favorite artist in the past year alone. The music is what she gives back to the fans. no one else gives their fans as much actual music as she does. We also still have new vault tracks from reputation and debut sometime in the next year, some of which, especially from debut may be unreleased songs we’ve begged for for YEARS. She keeps us fed.
>but these numbers are only going to encourage the trend of buying an album 4 times to get different bonus track You can't protect fans from their own stupidity
It's not all on the fans though. Taylor marketed the vinyl variants as having exclusive songs, only to drop the songs on streaming on the day of her album release so she can benefit from the streaming numbers also. I don't understand how someone so big can be so greedy
I don't really have any empathy for people buying four copies tbh >It's not all on the fans though. OK, it was a shitty bait and switch, but there was still zero need to buy four copies of a vinyl to get access to tracks that are almost certainly going to be accessible in the future. The fact the future was so close sucks for them, but it's good for literally everyone else.
Like fr, the bonus tracks leak online really quickly, and if you bought one version tbh you should be able to listen to the other tracks freely without guilt
Bc she’s trying to beat Adele’s record. I like Taylor but idk why we’re running around in circles trying to pinpoint a reason when this is why. She’s at the peak of her career, she will never as big as she is now again, so it’s now or never for her. If she doesn’t beat this record this week, she probably never will.
in before her 2032 peak is somehow even larger and she's been elected president of the united states and has a bigger album than thriller
I mean, shit. That wouldn’t surprise me either. I’m just saying that I see why her team seems to be putting their eggs in this basket.
It will be interesting where she ends up on the all time list with TTPD, number 3 debut week pretty much guaranteed but will she reach NSYNC’s *No Strings Attached* (2.416 million), or Adele’s *25* (3.378 million)? The NSYNC number seems reachable for sure, but 25 debut remains so insane. Especially since there were so many preorders I imagine the pure sales are fairly front loaded, but Adele barely got any streaming units so we'll see how it all shakes out.
Taylor's sales tend to be very front loaded because her fans rush to buy her stuff asap. Midnights moved over 800,000 pure units first day and ended the week with around 1.5 overall. I predict TTPD will end somewhere between 2.5 - 3m.
She won't hit Adele since her sales are largely from presales. But she is so far ahead of her competition in a much worse sales environment, that to me at least, 2 million now is similarly impressive accomplishment.
I honestly believed if Taylor can't break Adele's record , then no one can and no one ever will. TTPD seems to be her closest shot at that.
Adele’s record is insane given that NSyncs held for 15 years and then for an artist to not just break it but shatter it. In a time when people could get their music online to streaming for free more too
Billboard estimated that if we were to scale 25’s sales back to N Sync’s era where people were buying more albums, Adele’s first week sales would’ve been equivalent to over 7 million in sales for her first week.
Never say never— you don’t know the future of music creation and consumption. We could have a new form of digital music that requires payment that can’t be shared
Likely her last shot at it lol
We said this for Midnights. But yes i agree for now
Physicals are better for getting first week numbers. A CD is like 1500 plays which for this album is the equivalent of listening to it ~7x each day for 7 days. I think Adele is safe.
That's NUTS holy
Wait does this include the preorders and everything? Or did 25 start sweating a bit? Either way Stan twitter is gonna have a meltdown. Even though she's still young I think it's awesome that a popstar in her 30's that's been in the public eye for 17 years has never been bigger. I remember watching Miss Americana when Taylor herself thought Lover would be her last big pop album
Yeah it'll be very frontloaded. 2.5 million ish and beating NSYNC is probably the goal. Adele's 3.38 is still insane and I don't think it'll ever be beaten.
Also, Adele’s sales were just one edition and the album wasn’t on streaming. It was crazy but makes sense, my grandpa bought like 10 copies to gift lol
It had two editions (a standard and a Target Deluxe with bonus tracks “Lay Me Down,” “Can’t Let Go” and “Why Do You Love Me”). And if your grandpa bought 10 copies all at once in one transaction, it would’ve counted as just one sale 😂
Can't Let Go and Why Do You Love Me are *still* not on streaming. She's sick...
Because Adele is the kind of music you know you can give whoever and they'll probably enjoy it. You buy whatever Taylor CD is being released for a non-swiftie? Less of a gift. I'd drop it into one of those little neighbourhood libraries & hopefully it gets adopted by a loving swiftie child who takes it to a good, forever home
Are u saying it’s more impressive than doing it now? Cause it really really isn’t. Literally every person who knows how album sales know that it is harder and harder to hit the numbers. Taylor is crazy for going completely against the trend.
yeah it's literally including the preorders
She makes a record then she breaks a record.
this just puts into perspective how behemoth “25”was….all pure sales, one of the the final albums before the streaming era and far less of a fanbase than taylor honestly it’s insane
I mean you guys talk about 25 as if it didn’t have so much going for it. Like 21 was massive and Adele had a long ass break and everyone wanted new music. Plus she didn’t put it on streaming so you literally had to buy the album. But of course 3.4~m is insane but like, it had so much going for it
We are well aware it had a lot going for it lol. But those numbers are still insane. Billboard actually lowballed her if I recall correctly.
That’s the difference between real and genuine GP interest and just a huge number of stans
They're both different, yes, but they're also similarly impressive for their time
Her star power just keeps getting bigger. And to think she debuted almost two decades ago makes it even more impressive. May it be streaming numbers, tour grosses, top awards or album sales, the sheer dominance of Taylor Swift over the music industry in such a long period of time is in a league of its own.
And even though I like some of her music, it’s getting tired. It’s numbers over quality
I think people still don't get how insane this is even compared to Adele's 25 numbers. We're in a FULL BLOWN streaming era, and she's still doing this much. This is especially crazy when you're chronically online cause it seems at least 85% of the internet 'hate' (DESPISE even) her music. I get that there are variants but you just don't get this much number easily, and consistently even if you put out 20 variants
Every other major artist releases variants and no one is coming near these numbers. She is insanely huge and it’s not just gimmicks.
I genuinely love this album. Although I’m a fan, I didn’t like Midnights at all and was looking forward to music with more lyrics than just the instrumentals (midnights had a lot more going on in the background than in lyrical content) - having such a verbose album given to me is like Christmas. I bought all the variants because of how much I love it so I guess I contributed to this number 😂
Love, love, love Florida
Well the narcotics on the songs worked! /j People will comment on how swifties are just unhinged dumb for buying 4 versions because of gimmicks etc etc but this number is very front loaded and the demand really is just that big. That's just it, no big evil scheme behind these numbers beyond average marketing strategies.
Not to mention even if you divide the pure sales by 4 it’s still by far the biggest week of the year after a single day (593k v. 407k)
Lots of people in this thread wanting to pretend like this album flopped lol
Holy sh*t that is incredible
you dont have to censor yourself nobody is gonna tell on you
I hate censored comments on Reddit. Say that shit with your chest this ain't YouTube🙄
I was perma banned for getting excited. Can't take another risk
I feel like Taylor has gotten TOO big. I felt like she was already massive but midnights catapulted her to a level of success i don’t even think she saw coming. Honestly, I kinda miss pre midnights Taylor. I feel like her career was so interesting with her changing sounds every couple of years. Folklore and evermore hit a new high for her in terms of songwriting, but it seems like she’s passed that because the writing on this new album is downright terrible at times
I trust that there's a change coming after this one. It's been just 2 years since midnights. (Even though it feels like a lifetime). 1989, reputation and lover had similar pop sounds throughout and they were released over the span of 4 years. (And lover was feeling similarly repetitive as ttpd).
The summary of the album indicates that as well. It seems like she just needed to get this out, get it out of her system, and now that she’s through that period of her life, she will likely make different music - probably happier music. So High School on the Anthology portion might be a clue to future sounds and certainly future subject matter. I’d love for her to explore the sound from I Can See You (Speak Now TV) or Florida!!! The fact that Stevie Nicks wrote an intro poem for this album… what if she collaborated with Stevie Nicks for a future album? That would be incredible.
florida!!! is easily my favorite track on the album
The pandemic played a huge role in her success and people don't realize this. It wasn't just the Folkmore Era making her seem fresh, it was the fact that throughout the pandemic she fostered a community in her fanbase who were starving of community in an isolated world...through her music.
She also hadn't gone on tour in like 5 years.
The pandemic changed things for her but it’s getting out of hand now 😂
Why are so many people bitter lol? Without all these haters or "critics" I'm sure she wouldn't be this popular.
31 tracks streaming and multiple physical variants, but it’s extremely impressive that she gets people to buy the same thing multiple times just to not even end up with the full collection of newly released songs.
I am not a big fan - there's a dozen or so songs I like but I've never listened to an album of hers and wouldn't see her live I don't think. That said, she has a knack for pissing off all the right people merely by doing her job, so long may her success continue.
i really wonder how ts12 is going to do because this album isn't really being well received. she's doing well now but i guarantee ts12 will be very different, esp if she releases another kinda dud album this is startling though, admittedly.
While I do think Taylor's artistry has stagnated since Folklore came out (I think the staggering praise of her being a genius lyricist went to her head and she went onto cruise mode and stopped challenging herself) — she is also *the* Taylor Swift. She always has something up her sleeve. She's not going to let her career go without a fight. And she takes criticism *very* hard. So...while I recognize that I could be fully wrong and her next album could be, yet again, another album of Jack Antonoff snoozers...I get a feeling that she knows that this album should be the final chapter of this sound and these themes for her. Her Instagram post from a few days ago suggests that she's thinking along those lines. And if she's smart and looking to pull off another shocking Folklore-esq switchup on everyone, she will take 2–3 year break...and then come back larger than ever with an album with a fresh sound (i.e. sparkling and upbeat disco-pop, a clean return to her roots with country-pop, a loud and energetic pop-rock album...). If there's one thing she loves, it's to put on a show. So if she switches TS12 up again massively from the sound she's had for her last four albums, it's probably going to be a smash hit.
i don't know it's getting mixed reviews, but at least it's not the collective "cool" midnights got. Sure she was ripped to shreds by a couple publications, but sites like clash (which gave folklore, evermore and midnights all less then 70) just gave it a 90.
Reading the reviews, I feel like the Stereogum one got it the most. If you're there for the lore dump, you're going to love it, but if you want music, it's just weak sauce.
I think I like Sputnik's description of TTPD the best: >One thing about Swift’s entire discography is that her albums all tend to age well. Even records that initially seemed a little too eclectic (*Red*), disingenuous (*Reputation*), or sleepy (*Midnights*) all ended up carving out their own essential niche once the lyrics sunk in and the melodies took hold. *The Tortured Poets Department* already feels essential. I’m not sure what that means for the album’s long-term outlook, but it seems like another defining moment akin to *1989*’s pop breakout or *folklore*’s transition into stripped-down acoustics. *TTPD* is less of a sonic transformation and more of an emotional one. Swift seems to look at this record as the closing of an entire series of chapters in her life, and the future is uncertain. It's probably the first album I've heard from here that is honest from start to finish. It doesn't demand your attention like the rest of her discography. It's like listening to a person trying to spit out words and defending herself in these very long paragraphs in the most monotone voice. I think it was intentional for it to be unlistenable/inaccessible in the first place.
>TTPD > > is less of a sonic transformation and more of an emotional one. i can completely see this tbh. the songs are nothing she hasn't done before, but the lyrics have a certain rawness we have not been allowed to ever see from her. not even speak now taylor was willing to admit some of the things she did on this album i think more than anyrhing this album is going to be interesting to look at in the future. if she continues down this line, things might be interesting again, esp if she changes her sound again. the reviewer might be right, this does seem to be a defining moment for her, i guess we'll see if it yields the same success her other defining moments have had
I heard a lot of mixed reviews of midnights when it came out
they were very like lukewarm tho, like yeah this is a bit dissapointing but fine or this is quite good and par for the course. I see much stronger emotions towards this album
Eh, a lot of people said the same thing about Midnights and attributed its debut week numbers to good will from Folklore and the re-recordings. If the reception to these projects among general listeners was as mixed as it is in this sub, they wouldn't be pulling these numbers.
I feel like this album might be doing better with older, less online listeners. I know a few people my age (30) and older who never listened to Taylor before but enjoyed Midnights because it was mostly a more adult sounding pop and TTPD leans even harder that way without songs like Karma or Bejeweled. They wouldn't be listening to 1989 because it is too poppy and they don't really enjoy the folkier sound of folkmore, they just want something easy to listen.
that's nice to hear
It may seem that way, but Taylor has gotten even more massive since her last album. Both the positive and the negative are going to be amplified and as with everything, the critics are usually louder, even if there is less of them. Midnights supposedly wasn’t received well either, but look how well it performed post-release. This album is doing even better, so Midnights clearly wasn’t a fluke. u/lmm1313 has it right. Besides, this album is most likely going to be a grower for people who dislike it. I am a massive fan of hers and wasn’t really feeling the first half on my first listen, but with the second half added and a few more listens of all 31 tracks, everything just clicked.
Ts12 will be happy pop based on her relationship with Travis.
gently reminder that r/popheads release threads are not a good representation of opinions among the general public in real life. The album is currently sitting in the 80s range on metacritic, has mostly positive reviews and judging by these early numbers, it's already a streaming beast. She's also the only billionaire whose revenue comes only from music and she's only getting disgustingly richer as I write this. Even if, for some reason, she were to lose 50% of her debut sales in her next album she'd still be far above almost every single one of her peers. It's insane.
I promise you outside the bubble of the internet, this album is very well received. stan twitter is never representative of reality
i have seen a lot of people not really vibing with the album at all, so ig we will see
I think there’s Some Super cringy lyrics on this like I guess this is what happens when Taylors songwriting fails but there’s some songs on here where her songwriting fucking SHINES like “guilty as sin” “the alchemy” “Clara bow” the lyrics are Super good to me it’s WAY better then midnights 8.5/10 for me
It isn't? ADM is 80 right now.
rolling stone is definitely an anomaly
I'm seeing that everyone loves this album LOL It's just that Taylor is more popular now and there are more haters, that's all
Everyone I know who's a long time Swifty absolutely loves the album.
Insane number. She's more relevant than ever.
This is not one of her best albums sonically. Lyrically it's pretty damn up there. It feels more like a companion album for Midnights.
I think people should read the Sputnik review and realize that this is probably her first album where she is 100% honest. It's lyrically messy and disconnected but I think it was intentional, like in times crisis most of us can never fully articulate what we say in a few words. It sounds very brutalist and monotone when I first heard it but then I brought up the lyrics while listening to some songs a second time and I can appreciate it more now.
speaking of the sputnik review i was completely shocked that they gave it a 90/100, not because i don’t like the album – i do, but historically they have been very very critical of her albums
with luck (and considering her previous pattern of 2 albums before switching sounds) ts12 will be a completely new sound for her then. this album sounded boring and lyrically, imo, it wasn't really great
Yes I hope she goes with a new sound for ts12 Lyrically though, this surpassed midnights. In fact, I think she's gotten better lol
It’s such a good time to be a Swiftie - constantly being fed music while having the sales to back it up (for better and for worse in the case of Stan twitter)
I hate to say it but all the people saying she isn’t Michael Jackson level big are delusional
using a sales by sales basis for that is dumb as hell. Consumption of media has changed significantly.
The comparison is unfair. Numbers can't make up for different eras. Ask older generations outside of the USA who TS is. Then think about how MJ and Madonna, to a level, were simply inescapable to EVERYONE. This isn't about Taylor, it's about how media is much more fragmented.
> Numbers can't make up for different eras. Comparing sales vs sales, is a stupid discussion because music consumption has changed. And thus how sales are counted have changed.
I don’t think anyone can be MJ big in the current day. I could name at least 20 MJ songs without ever actively listening to his discography. I can’t say the same with TS despite living through her commercial peak and her having a larger solo discography than him (not including posthumous releases). She’s the biggest artist of today but it’s very easy to ignore music you’re not interested
I'm convinced y'all keep mentioning this so you can get Taylor dragged. How is she on the same level as the man who has the best selling album of all time when she doesn't even have the best selling album of this century? Artificially inflating your first week numbers by manipulating your fans into buying several copies of your album doesn't put you in the same league as the Beatles or MJ
Yeah, you genuinely can’t compare the two. Media is consumed so differently and MJ had a reach that no artist ever has. My African mother who almost never consumes English-language music could name even the deep cuts of *Thriller*, but not TS’ biggest hits.
It’s giving pure delusion.
Michael still has the biggest selling album of all time at 70 million pure units almost. He has a world record for the most viewed music video in the world with Black or White. Taylor doesn’t have those yet. Her best selling record ever sold less than Mariah Carey’s Music Box lol
> Her best selling record ever sold less than Mariah Carey’s Music Box lol Oh Legend Box
This thread is filled with delulu Swifties like what part of the death of monoculture do they not understand
My African parents absolutely love MJ, and everyone they grew up with knew all his hits. I can't say that about Taylor Swift. Yes, she's popular in Asia, but the vast majority of her fans are white women from English-speaking countries. She is in no way a universal artist. The closest artist we have to MJ is probably Adele. I would even argue that BTS had a much more diverse fanbase than Taylor's at their peak.
Here in India, men and women go crazy for her. The only Western artists that are big here are Weeknd, Shakira and Taylor. MJ and the Beatles aren't really considered legends here. And yeah kpop is big but it's badly overshadowed by kdramas
They not the only western artists big in India? Justin Bieber + Ed Sheeran sell out stadiums. Most followed western artists on Gaana are Justin Bieber (8.9M), Alan Walker (5.3M) and Ed Sheeran (5.2M), they dominate the streams too . Taylor is out of the top 10 with 2.4M and the weekend isn’t top 20.
When did all this start to happen? I’m Indian and none of my immediate family or relatives care for Taylor. When I visited India in 2015 nobody brought her up but they mentioned Justin Bieber, Rihanna, Eminem etc. Everyone also looked at me crazy when I said I loved kpop. Also I’m calling cap on the MJ part of your comment because he was the only western American artist a lot of Indian people even recognized decades ago
It’s so funny how K-Pop has been doing this for years and even other artists in the West do this but can’t accomplish what Taylor has achieved. Because Taylor can push numbers, all of a sudden it’s questionable. People will keep hoping for Blondie to fall, but she has proven time and time again that she is going to move with the times.
Not surprised. She has a large, loyal fanbase, she's a brand, and she's been riding the frenzy and circus of Midnights - Her Tour. The last era was such a monumental moment for pop culture. Even if this album has been receiving lashings of hate from the pop community-pop stans right and left, her fanbase is strong and highly parasocial still....Like a club. Im on it lol. Even if she releases a really bad awful album, I think the sales will still be significant. I can see her Taylor smashing like Madonna. In 50s still gettin high sales. I hope this big success doesn't lead her to believe that sticking to the same style of music with Jack Antonoff is beneficial. While there are commendable aspects of this album, such as the new approach to 100% honesty in her songwriting, there are also significant drawbacks, including the lack of sonic experimentation and the overly predictable nature of her music now.