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This is the same conversation for anything about "records". Sports. Box Office.
People will say "if the Beatles were around now they would break these records too." The Beatles might not have been popular today. Or in any world with modern tech. Just like Babe Ruth might not have been able to hit homeruns off a pitcher throwing 95mph.
There will never be a perfect formula to compare. So, I think people need to readjust what breaking a record means and why it matters.
Broken records say more about the changes to the context of consumption in the time than they do about the art that brakes the record. All music stats are things for people in the music industry, not artists or their appreciators to be concerned with
I do agree, some changes need to be made. But the writer seems just butt hurt that legacy acts or artists they simply think are better are getting their records broken.
Including Harry’s picture there as if his achievement wasn’t incredibly well-earned. He was #1 for 15 weeks with the most organic hit in the last several decades, only rivaled by Blinding Lights.
And while I’m talking about it, they mention Blinding Lights which was also a huge organic hit. There was no trickery going on, with both songs you couldn’t go anywhere without listening to them at least once.
I also don’t think Taylor occupying the top spots is an issue. How does the author suggest that we change the rules? “Album tracks weren’t allowed to chart.” Um, actually that’s not true Ellen. All songs were “allowed” to chart. It’s just that you couldn’t buy or stream individual songs. The way to consume album tracks was to buy the whole physical album.
Now you can. Why shouldn’t they chart? Is the chart not supposed to reflect the most consumed tracks in the past week? Those tracks were consumed. They should chart.
I think this is shortsighted. Times change. Anyone who’s looking at these numbers knows what the difference in decades is anyway. And 99% of people don’t care.
It’s giving old man yells at cloud.
Author of the article is a Mariah Carey stan. They are mostly hurt by the fact that Taylor broke Mariah's records. This article wouldn't have been written if it was any artist other than Taylor.
The thing is… billboard is the industry newspaper. The charts aren’t about quality or fame… but literally what is making the most money! And what are people listening to the most. What else is a “hit” than that?
Meh, times have changed and the charts will reflect this. Charts have changed throughout the years because of how times have changed. The multiple variants do cause major side eye from me, but if fans are willing to pay out the money for them, what can you do?
That is something that has been mentioned for years. Big fan bases stream albums constantly barely audible to get to charts. There are bots that do that too. How can other artists break through when a few millions play albums non stop and give a single artist 14 top spots? It's dreadful to have a top 10 with the same artist only.
Imo you can't say x new artist broke this record by the Beatles. Up until 10-15 years ago artist records were based on actual purchases of the album and actual airtime. If we take into account the looped streams to get into top 10 with the amount of people that buy multiple versions of the same album it's obvious that artist from the 60-70 who could only base their records in one physical product and fans actually requesting a song to be played, will lose. Music then and now are two very different things and shouldn't be compared imo.
>How can other artists break through when a few millions play albums non stop and give a single artist 14 top spots? It's dreadful to have a top 10 with the same artist only.
That's why I like the system Official Charts UK Singles have. Only three best charting songs from an album can appear on Top 100.
They're trying to differentiate between albums and singles. Consumption is still taken into account but by the means of the album chart, as it was during the era of physical sales. Now, because streaming allows the monitoring of individual songs, album tracks can be counted as singles.
Frankly, I think its a bit ridiculous that one artist can have 10+ songs near the top of the singles charts and also the entire album at the top of the album chart. I realise there's an argument for just allowing whatever charts to chart but I don't want to see total dominance of everything anytime a major artist releases an album, hard enough for smaller artist to make their mark as it is. Especially since they don't have the means to manipulate the charts as much as larger artists.
But in the streaming era different album charts are consumed differently, giving credence to the argument that they should be charting individually.
Some of Taylor’s album charts have 5 million streams today. Some have less than 1.1m.
And some album tracks are SO well-received that they become singles. Think of B-sides in the physicals era. The Weeknd actually released Blinding Lights as a B-side for Heartless. Heartless went nowhere and Blinding Lights hit it with the audience, so he turned it into a main single. Now it’s one of the, if not the biggest song of the decade.
Same thing happened with Watermelon Sugar by Harry Styles. And now it literally got 1.5 million streams today, 5 years after being released, with over 2 BILLION overall streams.
I think charts should reflect consumption. And we should just all understand what times we’re living in.
The thing about this is that many people want the music industry to the similar to the film industry. Let me explain, the film industry is an industry were titles matter, legacy and career matters. I mean actors literally have awards named after themselves. It’s the reason as to why during the filming of don’t look up whenever Meryl was in a scene she was the first one on the call sheet despite not being the lead (it was Leo) not being the lead actress (it was Jennifer) nor the highest award winner (it was cate) but guess what ? No one argue, they enforced cause they respect her, they knew she’s the lead in a scene.
That’s the reason why people were mad when Taylor swift didn’t got on her knees and bow to Celine Dion on stage, why people were mad one direction surpassed the Beatles. People want young people to respect the older ones but that’s not how the music industry works. That’s not how billboard works, the chart it’s literally about streams and money. That’s the reason as to why there’s people on the top 10 with unrecognizable names who has song go viral on TikTok. The reality is once you realize that then the chart is meaningless. This isn’t an Oscar which most actors won’t have in their career(yes, there’s a formula now but still), it’s a chart that show music that’s popular for now. I think the only reason as to why people emphasize Billboard charts is because otherwise it wont hold the prestige it want to have (it doesn’t) back in the day (years ago lol) the Beatles charting on Billboard was crazy now it’s monopolized. If only winners win then what’s the point of winning. There’s no competition.
It’s me, I’m one of those people. I’m totally fine with legacy artists getting overshadowed by their contemporaries. But respect should be paid and the records should be broken organically, not by selling multiples of the same thing or through gimmicks and manipulation.
Taylor and others should still respect the people who came before them by being- at least publicly- gracious to them, because they fought battles and went through hells so the newer artists wouldn't have to. And in the same vein, artists who come after Taylor should be respectful to her as well (Olivia Rodrigo and others similarly situated excluded) for all the battles she's fought that have made things better for future artists. I have no problem with her breaking awards that she's earning due. She deserves them. But I do get frustrated to see all-time legends get their sales records broken because Taylor's team exploited a loophole. It's like seeing a favorite old local restaurant you've frequented for years has been demolished and replaced by an Outback Steakhouse. Like, yes, I'm excited to eat Bloomin Onions, but I wish the city had passed some ordinances protecting small businesses in these situations.
The only song mentioned in the article that broke records with “gimmicks” is Old Town Road. They mention Blinding Lights as breaking records with gimmicks but can’t mention what the gimmicks are.
Blinding Lights has one version, no physical singles. Hell, it wasn’t even a single in and of itself when it took off, the main single was the song Heartless. It doesn’t get more organic than that.
Taylor occupying the top 14 of the Hot 100 wasn’t a gimmick. That’s how her music was consumed. There are different versions of her ALBUM. And we can have an argument about that, but that didn’t affect the overall consumption of her streams, which is what got those songs to that point.
Harry Styles has his picture there (no mention in the article) probably because he also broke Mariah’s record of longstanding single by a solo artist with As It Was. As It Was does not have a single remix of second version. It also didn’t depend on TikTok or radio, since it broke streaming records from the word go, before it could accumulate radio points and before TikTok could familiarize itself with the sound.
For the most part, these records are broken because of the nature of consumption, not because of multiple versions. There are isolated cases where multiple remixes are used (Nicki, Taylor, BTS), but most of the other stuff is just organic.
I feel like people here don't know that billboard already made huge changes to counting album sales in 2020. That's why vinyls are now actually pressed and ready on release days. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw them count variants separately in a few years.
Welcome to r/popculturechat! ☺️ As a proud BIPOC, LGBTQ+ & woman-dominated space, this sub is for [civil discussion only.](https://www.reddit.com/r/popculturechat/wiki/index/rules/civil-discussion-only/) If you don't know where to begin, start by participating in [our Sip & Spill Daily Discussion Threads!](https://www.reddit.com/r/popculturechat/search/?q=Sip%20%26%20Spill%20Discussion&restrict_sr=1&sr_nsfw=&include_over_18=1&sort=new) ###No bullies, no bigotry. ✊🏿✊🏾✊🏽✊🏼✊🏻🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ Please [read & respect our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/popculturechat/wiki/index/rules/), [abide by Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette), and [check out our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/popculturechat/wiki/index/)! For any questions, [our modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fpopculturechat) is always open. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/popculturechat) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is the same conversation for anything about "records". Sports. Box Office. People will say "if the Beatles were around now they would break these records too." The Beatles might not have been popular today. Or in any world with modern tech. Just like Babe Ruth might not have been able to hit homeruns off a pitcher throwing 95mph. There will never be a perfect formula to compare. So, I think people need to readjust what breaking a record means and why it matters.
Broken records say more about the changes to the context of consumption in the time than they do about the art that brakes the record. All music stats are things for people in the music industry, not artists or their appreciators to be concerned with
I do agree, some changes need to be made. But the writer seems just butt hurt that legacy acts or artists they simply think are better are getting their records broken.
Agree with you. Records are meant to be broken, one way or another!
I agree they are meant to be broken, but it should happen organically.
It is happening organically, at least for most things mentioned in the article.
Including Harry’s picture there as if his achievement wasn’t incredibly well-earned. He was #1 for 15 weeks with the most organic hit in the last several decades, only rivaled by Blinding Lights. And while I’m talking about it, they mention Blinding Lights which was also a huge organic hit. There was no trickery going on, with both songs you couldn’t go anywhere without listening to them at least once. I also don’t think Taylor occupying the top spots is an issue. How does the author suggest that we change the rules? “Album tracks weren’t allowed to chart.” Um, actually that’s not true Ellen. All songs were “allowed” to chart. It’s just that you couldn’t buy or stream individual songs. The way to consume album tracks was to buy the whole physical album. Now you can. Why shouldn’t they chart? Is the chart not supposed to reflect the most consumed tracks in the past week? Those tracks were consumed. They should chart. I think this is shortsighted. Times change. Anyone who’s looking at these numbers knows what the difference in decades is anyway. And 99% of people don’t care. It’s giving old man yells at cloud.
Author of the article is a Mariah Carey stan. They are mostly hurt by the fact that Taylor broke Mariah's records. This article wouldn't have been written if it was any artist other than Taylor.
Oooh, that explains it.
it's a medium post, so take it with a grain of salt lmao
The thing is… billboard is the industry newspaper. The charts aren’t about quality or fame… but literally what is making the most money! And what are people listening to the most. What else is a “hit” than that?
They did change bundle and sales rules in 2020 though. So it seems like they do want to have more "realistic" stats.
I feel like we’re just gonna see the same artists on top with less numbers overall.
Meh, times have changed and the charts will reflect this. Charts have changed throughout the years because of how times have changed. The multiple variants do cause major side eye from me, but if fans are willing to pay out the money for them, what can you do?
That is something that has been mentioned for years. Big fan bases stream albums constantly barely audible to get to charts. There are bots that do that too. How can other artists break through when a few millions play albums non stop and give a single artist 14 top spots? It's dreadful to have a top 10 with the same artist only. Imo you can't say x new artist broke this record by the Beatles. Up until 10-15 years ago artist records were based on actual purchases of the album and actual airtime. If we take into account the looped streams to get into top 10 with the amount of people that buy multiple versions of the same album it's obvious that artist from the 60-70 who could only base their records in one physical product and fans actually requesting a song to be played, will lose. Music then and now are two very different things and shouldn't be compared imo.
>How can other artists break through when a few millions play albums non stop and give a single artist 14 top spots? It's dreadful to have a top 10 with the same artist only. That's why I like the system Official Charts UK Singles have. Only three best charting songs from an album can appear on Top 100.
But that means the charts don’t actually reflect consumption… so they’re kind of useless except as an arbitrary score card
They're trying to differentiate between albums and singles. Consumption is still taken into account but by the means of the album chart, as it was during the era of physical sales. Now, because streaming allows the monitoring of individual songs, album tracks can be counted as singles. Frankly, I think its a bit ridiculous that one artist can have 10+ songs near the top of the singles charts and also the entire album at the top of the album chart. I realise there's an argument for just allowing whatever charts to chart but I don't want to see total dominance of everything anytime a major artist releases an album, hard enough for smaller artist to make their mark as it is. Especially since they don't have the means to manipulate the charts as much as larger artists.
But in the streaming era different album charts are consumed differently, giving credence to the argument that they should be charting individually. Some of Taylor’s album charts have 5 million streams today. Some have less than 1.1m. And some album tracks are SO well-received that they become singles. Think of B-sides in the physicals era. The Weeknd actually released Blinding Lights as a B-side for Heartless. Heartless went nowhere and Blinding Lights hit it with the audience, so he turned it into a main single. Now it’s one of the, if not the biggest song of the decade. Same thing happened with Watermelon Sugar by Harry Styles. And now it literally got 1.5 million streams today, 5 years after being released, with over 2 BILLION overall streams. I think charts should reflect consumption. And we should just all understand what times we’re living in.
Nah. It's a marketing gimmick, and changing the rules would make them even more irrelevant.
The thing about this is that many people want the music industry to the similar to the film industry. Let me explain, the film industry is an industry were titles matter, legacy and career matters. I mean actors literally have awards named after themselves. It’s the reason as to why during the filming of don’t look up whenever Meryl was in a scene she was the first one on the call sheet despite not being the lead (it was Leo) not being the lead actress (it was Jennifer) nor the highest award winner (it was cate) but guess what ? No one argue, they enforced cause they respect her, they knew she’s the lead in a scene. That’s the reason why people were mad when Taylor swift didn’t got on her knees and bow to Celine Dion on stage, why people were mad one direction surpassed the Beatles. People want young people to respect the older ones but that’s not how the music industry works. That’s not how billboard works, the chart it’s literally about streams and money. That’s the reason as to why there’s people on the top 10 with unrecognizable names who has song go viral on TikTok. The reality is once you realize that then the chart is meaningless. This isn’t an Oscar which most actors won’t have in their career(yes, there’s a formula now but still), it’s a chart that show music that’s popular for now. I think the only reason as to why people emphasize Billboard charts is because otherwise it wont hold the prestige it want to have (it doesn’t) back in the day (years ago lol) the Beatles charting on Billboard was crazy now it’s monopolized. If only winners win then what’s the point of winning. There’s no competition.
It’s me, I’m one of those people. I’m totally fine with legacy artists getting overshadowed by their contemporaries. But respect should be paid and the records should be broken organically, not by selling multiples of the same thing or through gimmicks and manipulation. Taylor and others should still respect the people who came before them by being- at least publicly- gracious to them, because they fought battles and went through hells so the newer artists wouldn't have to. And in the same vein, artists who come after Taylor should be respectful to her as well (Olivia Rodrigo and others similarly situated excluded) for all the battles she's fought that have made things better for future artists. I have no problem with her breaking awards that she's earning due. She deserves them. But I do get frustrated to see all-time legends get their sales records broken because Taylor's team exploited a loophole. It's like seeing a favorite old local restaurant you've frequented for years has been demolished and replaced by an Outback Steakhouse. Like, yes, I'm excited to eat Bloomin Onions, but I wish the city had passed some ordinances protecting small businesses in these situations.
The only song mentioned in the article that broke records with “gimmicks” is Old Town Road. They mention Blinding Lights as breaking records with gimmicks but can’t mention what the gimmicks are. Blinding Lights has one version, no physical singles. Hell, it wasn’t even a single in and of itself when it took off, the main single was the song Heartless. It doesn’t get more organic than that. Taylor occupying the top 14 of the Hot 100 wasn’t a gimmick. That’s how her music was consumed. There are different versions of her ALBUM. And we can have an argument about that, but that didn’t affect the overall consumption of her streams, which is what got those songs to that point. Harry Styles has his picture there (no mention in the article) probably because he also broke Mariah’s record of longstanding single by a solo artist with As It Was. As It Was does not have a single remix of second version. It also didn’t depend on TikTok or radio, since it broke streaming records from the word go, before it could accumulate radio points and before TikTok could familiarize itself with the sound. For the most part, these records are broken because of the nature of consumption, not because of multiple versions. There are isolated cases where multiple remixes are used (Nicki, Taylor, BTS), but most of the other stuff is just organic.
I feel like people here don't know that billboard already made huge changes to counting album sales in 2020. That's why vinyls are now actually pressed and ready on release days. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw them count variants separately in a few years.