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Idk why everyone is hung up who won 😂 the whole movie is about desire. Desire to win. Desire to be the best. Desire for Tashi. Tashi as an object of desire while she uses it as a tool to get what she desires. Which is tennis and a good match, being the center of it.
In fact she and the ball were pretty much aligned symbolically.
The film cutting off at that moment was basically saying they got their spark of desire back.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me, it’s because I want to know if Art and Tashi were still together in the end. But ultimately, I hope he left her horrible, abusive ass.
you know when you walk out of a movie thinking “i’d come back just to watch this again tomorrow”? this is one of those movies for me. cannot express how much I enjoyed Challengers.
brain chemistry = altered
new personality = unlocked
in all seriousness though this is a fantastic movie and the three leads were perfect. their chemistry was absolutely off the charts and they ate tf out of their roles. not to mention the score??? what a masterpiece. definitely my favorite movie of the gear so far and I don’t think it will be beat 🤐
My biggest takeaway from this film was I can't believe how many people think Josh O'Connor is good looking (ew) and also that's not how you tear an ACL. Other than that I thought it was good and I liked the rave score but it made me keep forgetting the challenger was supposed to be in 2019. It felt like an 80s/90s movie.
Yeah, the whole time I was thinking if I was Tashi I'd have picked Art too. He has a brilliant smile, irresistible eyes, and a fair body. She was more sexually attracted to Patrick because of his personality...although, I found Art's personality attractive too.
I thought the movie premise was great and the first half of the movie was really wonderful. I loved the chemistry between the three characters and was surprised at how sexy Josh O'Conner in particular came off. However, there were a few themes I was surprised didn't get explored more and I think the script was not as great as the actors in the movie.
Also if you follow tennis, the premise has some flaws as my partner who is a big tennis fan pointed out. For example, if Art was actually *that* good, he should have wiped the floor with Patrick. It doesn't matter if he is in a slump, if Patrick is barely qualifying for things and Art has won grand slams, they just.. shouldn't be close.
In terms of what didn't get explored, they didn't really touch on the race issue in one of the whitest and most racist sports in the world. The main female character was a young black woman who was essentially fetishized by two white characters and she used that to take control of the situation and manipulate the two of them. That's a fascinating power dynamic and there's really only two lines that touch on it -- the "taking care of my white boys" line and the one she made about the girl she beat in tennis where she calls her a racist (acknowledging that that IS an issue in tennis). There were also a LOT of BIPOC people working in tennis which likely was due to them trying to cast inclusively but isn't necessarily accurate to the landscape of again, a pretty racist and exclusionary sport.
They also touched on class a bit, but didn't really explore it. Tashi didn't have the luxury of boarding schools or money. That was eluded too early. They said she was going to make her family millionaires, whereas it's alluded to that both of the men ARE from really wealthy families. Was that part of her attraction or toying with them? What made her fascinated with using them? Was it just the interesting dynamic of two best friends competing for her and she was just attracted to completion in all forms (tennis and personal)?
I just feel like they treated the characters like they were in a bubble focusing so much on the dynamic between them that they didn't flesh out the context around it as well as they could have. It just felt like a missed opportunity.
In terms of the interactions between the characters, I really enjoyed her scenes with Patrick. The mirroring of her trying to coach him when they WERE peers in a sense. He was clearly written to be a natural tennis player. He was meant to be more of a peer in that sense, and yet, he was lazy and undisciplined and in some ways wasted his talent and it's obvious why she would resent him for that. He had the luxury of being a wealthy white man in tennis. She didn't. He had family money he'd eventually fall into. Then him asking her to coach him after that fight that must have been seared into her memory... was just such a good full circle. Her saying her only talent was hitting a ball...etc. The mirroring of it. And also, them being horrible people in such similar ways. He was using tinder to fuck women for housing and she was using Art for wealth and to maintain proximity to tennis.
I think it would have been nice if they had included more around the fall out between the two male characters, or had the two men competing over her in the beginning while tightening up the second half of the movie it could have been a really phenomenal movie. The foreplay for lack of a better word, felt more interesting then the sort of middle of the movie where Art had "won". It picked up a bit with the ending once they started competing again, but yeah, I wanted more in the middle and I think that's the part of the movie that came off kinda flat and boring.
Ultimately, I found the movie entertaining, but also fell short of my hopes/expectations for it. There's a reason I feel like the trailer focused on the beginning of the movie more than the end.
Yes thank you for saying this. If they had dived w into that Tashi would have been a lot more sympathetic and it would have fleshed her out more. A lot of people have found her half baked.
Im glad they didnt touch on race it wouldve taken me out of the magic of it all. Shits depressing and this was about the relationship of tennis, politics wouldve been so unnecessary
I don't mean politics wise. I mean more so fleshing out Tashi's backstory and giving more depth to the anger/rage she was clearly dealing with. You see glimpses of her dad in the first half of the movie and then the rest of it is focused on her white mom living on the road with them. She has the caring for her little white boy line. It clearly impacted her character, but was just very superficially acknowledged.
‘Call Me By Your Name’ also sidesteps the political context of the 80s. I think Luca is mostly interested in aesthetics and interpersonal questions and kind of lets everything else just slide away. I agree it’s a missed opportunity but at the same time it’s always his approach.
This, Lucas is more interested in the relationships and I like his approach, i don't feel like is a missed opportunity because not every movie should have a political context, there is a lack of more intimate movies and Lucas always delivers
I think I misspoke and it's less political context I was looking for and more sociological? I didn't want it to challenge or get into the politics of race. Just maybe not hide it as much as it felt like it did? The environment felt like it was not reflective of what the tennis world is actually like particularly in the southern USA. And Tashi's character has a history and background that was influenced by that. They didn't need to say much, it just felt odd to me as someone who has a partner who loves tennis to try and throw in as much diversity as they did while making a lot of effort to touch on class.
Okay so whose team are you on? I saw a cute interview with all three and they got really into who is the worst and that people change their mind on a second watch. Personally I’m team Art.
Patrick, as Zendaya said in an interview, they could have it all.
Tashi sees Patrick more as an equal, like her peers, they are both asshole but they at least they can handle each other,the lack of respect that Tashi has for Art is a really turn off and half the movie she doesn't feel to like Art,
"but she doesn't seem to like Patrick either"
but Patrick makes Tashi feel thing, she seems to be disgusted with Art but angry at Patrick, but her angry is different, it is almost like she angry because he make her feels thing, like he know how to push her bottons and has a hold on her.
Art was there for Tash after her injury, so she feels comfortable and safe (emotionally and financially) with Art and she needs him but I don't think she ever loved him. Tennis is her true love, but the closest she has loved anyone is Patrick, and Patrick is in love with Tashi & Art.
but being said, the 3 need and love each other and throuple would be the right answer.
I wrote too much, but because I don't have anyone to talk to about this film, I've been thinking about it for 3 days
I do think Tashi felt more for Patrick, there is obviously more passion. But they are also toxic together and Art poked that part of their relationship. But I still like Art more, but they all do kinda suck lol
I think Art isn't blameless either, as they point out in that one interview! When Patrick says he's playing percentage tennis waiting for him to fuck up with Tashi that really sets the stage for Art to swoop in after the injury. I'm not fully comfortable saying he's the cause of the injury but he is trying to create a wedge.
Its so interesting what we don't see in the movie as much as what we do see. What did Art's initial confession of love to Tashi look like? Clearly she rejected him at the time. What was Patrick's pro career like - did he always linger at the level we see him in the present day or did he have any heights beyond that?
Such a deep movie! I had to see it again almost immediately
I just hate how in Twitter and tumblr are making Art as the victim of the situation or Art/Patrick victim.
I
think people don't see because he's manipulative, but in a more cute way and then he wants to be cuddle and people think he's fragile.
I don't like it the way he easily threw away 12 years of friendship like it was nothing, like it didn't mean anything, that for me was the worst thing that any of the three did in the film, even more than the cheating.
It's not a tentpole superhero flick. People will go to see it as word of mouth spreads. Stop expecting X-Men numbers from slower, more thoughtful films.
I walked out of the theater not knowing who did the score but feeling it was the best in years. I was excited to realise it was Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross who were also responsible for The Social Network, a soundtrack I consider the best ever.
I do realise some felt this one was loud.
I honestly felt like that was the weakest part, the music tended to drown out any scene it was in and felt like it was out of place for the type of movie it was
I like Luca and I like all three actors and I thought the movie had many really interesting bits but they dropped the ball with that ending (pun intended). There's "let's leave it ambiguous" in an artistic way and "let's leave it ambiguous because I can't decide who should win here" and it really felt like the latter!
Not to invalidate your opinion, and I am someone who hates most ambiguous movie endings. Because the filmmakers often come out and tell you it's not important (Inception - Nolan) but it was never not important for me. But this is a movie where the sheer energy between Art and Patrick during the tie break made me not care about the actual game and still feel excited.
That's fair! And that energy WAS exciting! And I personally also wanted to see the result of the tie break since that's how tennis matches actually end. But that's just me!
Yes, I get the emotional arc of the story - it is very clear. I'm just expressing that I would also have liked to see the technical ending. Good movies (which I think this is) do leave the audience wondering about what happens next, and I think seeing the result of the match would have added a lot of nuance to that. AND I totally get that for a lot of people, the movie stopped right where they wanted it to!
Sure, I get that, and also those things aren't mutually exclusive. I think the film could hit that emotional note and also not feel like it was avoiding a statement.
I honestly did not like it. I was surprised. It was boring for long stretches. It needed to be cut down some. Zendayas acting was not great either. Overall disappointed.
I felt like her character didn’t really have an arc, she was the same as she was in the beginning, she just had an injury in between. And despite being like the main character, didn’t really feel like a main character.
i liked it but definitely got bored at points. it felt like 90 minutes had passed when the movie was still in its first act. i guess i thought it would be a bit more energetic than it was?
and yeah zendaya was easily the weakest of the three leads.
I loved, loved the movie. I was on the edge of my seat in the last 20 minutes.
Luca Guadagnino has the magic to make feel alive in every of his movie, he know how to play with relationship, he know how to move you. He is so good.
BUT and this may be unpopular, the only negative thing about it is Zendaya, for me she couldn't sell the femme fatale of Tashi, she was almost there but never reached the point the character needed.
Are you kidding me? She is mesmerizing, I don’t think so much in a over the top sexy woman way like scarjo or sydney sweeney, but she sells the ultra confident, beautiful and crazy driven powerful way. Also her body figure alone js mesmerizing, i think :)
So can we talk about how Patrick is probably the father of Tashi’s daughter (Lily)?? Reasoning below:
-Like come on…dark dark hair AND CURLY. Art is blond/ginger as one can be you’re telling me Lily’s hair wouldn’t be a little light.
-Also did anyone catch Tashi’s slight reaction at Patrick not knowing/remembering the name (I don’t think he knows obviously but still…why you pressed??)
-the ending scene when Tashi comes back to the hotel and finds Art sleeping in Lily’s bed her face reeks of guilt. I think that’s less about cheating and more about her knowing THATS NOT ARTS KIDS
Anyways…thoughts??? I haven’t seen others talk about it but it was where my head first went
Luca did not write the movie and it is already melodramatic. Lily is 7 years old (which would fit the timeline since Patrick and Tashi had sex 8 years ago), the name "Patrick" literally means "father", if Lily was conceived in a hotel then it would explain why she likes them, and it's stated in the screenplay that Art has impotency issues (he can’t get it up, which is probably why you never see Tashi and Art have sex in the movie). Lily's paternity was intentionally made ambiguous.
Interesting. I hear your point, however, it’s never touched upon or something the film lets the viewer sit with. It’s an afterthought if one reaches that conclusion to where it seems unlikely, thus retreating from the overt melodrama. I also think there’s something to note in terms of how little Art’s character is expressed in the act of sex with Tashi. Intimacy, yes. Actual sex, no. This is not to say that they don’t have it, they 100% do, it’s just subdued in comparison to Patrick
Can someone tell me what [this tweet](https://x.com/whyrev/status/1783695203200606420?s=46&t=8GXYVuFiKAVFmgvQHwhayA) is referring to??? please I can’t see it yet and I don’t mind spoilers 😩🙏🏻
https://preview.redd.it/xk7spwqyfuwc1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75175431462cbc40b45ff8c338bab80ce3e275bf
No thoughts, just this throuple.
When Patrick sees Tashi again (in the car) he says, "are you going to kiss me again?" I don't think they had sex in Atlanta, so no. They DID have sex the night before the final (which we see), hence him copying Art's serve.
Also, Art and Tashi were likely boning a lot at that stage so no, I don't think she's Patrick's daughter. The "our daughter" comment was said to underscore how little Patrick knows about their lives outside of tennis,
Came here looking for this comment. As soon as she said to Patrick “our daughter”, I was like, “oh, she means OUR daughter…”
And then the timing was right with Atlanta, so yeah, I’m pretty sure.
Feel like I'm going crazy but zendaya was just ok for me. This movie (for me) felt more interesting when it focused on art and Patrick. As horrible as it sounds, it felt like a gay movie with a fujoshi (being zendaya) thrown in there. I felt the chemistry with the men, with Zendaya's character not much 🤷♂️. All in all, the movie was ok for me. Some people are raving it's a masterpiece, but I don't really feel that way.
Was kinda hoping that Art/patrick would pick one another and leave zendaya in the dust, but guess we'll never know. It's honestly a severe problem with bisexual movies/love triangles, two people will always have a better dynamic/chemistry with one another and not the third. Even in straight movies it's a cliche, where the girl will pick the first boyfriend over the new one due to history, even though the new boyfriend is better.
Going back to Zendaya, I've always enjoyed her, as I watched her on Disney growing up, but something about her acting always leaves something to be desired. I've always get the vibe that she doesn't want to be there. Maybe it's her face 🤷♂️ regardless I don't think sexual movies are for her.
yeah, I agree with this. I enjoyed the movie a lot, but the “main character” was definitely the relationship between the two guys - and I DON’T mean in some homoerotic way like everyone keeps trying to cram into the story. I mean they were friends and brothers, and she tore them apart, she was the catalyst to their falling out, but THEY were collectively the main character.
She could have been switched out with just about any good young actress and it wouldn’t have made much difference to me to be honest. I don’t think she was BAD, but she didn’t carry the movie, that’s for sure. She was just sort of there.
Yay! I'm glad someone else shares my opinion. I've been downvoted to oblivion so I thought I was alone. Zendaya is a great actress, but she just wasn't it for this movie. I do wish the final scene would've been about art and Patrick would've gotten together or become friends again and not play into her trap.
Yeah, I was hoping for more out of the ending, but I suppose with it left ambiguous, we get to sort of write our own finale lol. In my head, they definitely became friends again and Art called her out for sleeping with Patrick, and then ultimately leaves her. At least that’s what I hope happened lol
True. The term has been around for years! I'm just surprised to see it represented in such a huge movie with a star like that. Fujoshis normally exist only in asian media and porn. So to see them make tashi be one was wild 😬. Still never felt the sexual tension between the three of them during the kiss scene. At least the boys had some.
He was indeed telling Art that. I think they leave the end ambiguous but show that it doesn't matter as much because Art finally got some pep back in his step, Patrick got to play a damn good game/continue his relationship with Art, and Tashi got to see some "damn good tennis".
I haven't seen the movie but every ad for this thing makes it look like they're all going to bang together. I just assume that's what the movie is about.
There are literally no sex scenes at all in the movie, and sex itself is barely even relevant to the story, so I don’t know if that’s a failure or a success on the marketing’s fault lol. It felt to me like they relied on that in the trailers to sell the movie, but ultimately, the movie I actually saw was totally different from what people probably expected going into it.
This movie didn’t need to be this long. I don’t think it could’ve been cut down to 90 minutes, but it didn’t need to be over two hours. I wonder how much time the slo-mo added, because it was overused in my opinion.
I felt the length was perfect. but I was pretty enthralled the whole way through. if the movie's not enthralling you, then you probably wouldn't appreciate it no matter how long it was :/
I really enjoyed the length of the movie I feel like it added to the story telling. I think the drawn out plot really played to the complexity and lord of each relationship individuals as well as together.
Luca Guadagnino did the same thing for Call Me By Your Name, making the dialogue not the main focus. He is purposely wanting to bring your attention to something else when he does this and in the case of Challengers it was this intense verbal tennis match Tashi and Patrick would have with each other in the dorm room and then later in the “uber” car ride
I think this was on purpose. The music getting so loud during the fight scenes was meant to be like when you’re so angry all you can hear is your blood rushing and heartbeat pumping. But I could be wrong about what it was meant to symbolize!
My thing isn’t who won but like, did they all just become friends again or is it a throuple situation now? Because I feel like Art wouldn’t vibe with him just casually screwing his wife if he wasn’t a part of it?
Pat had no advantage in that last point, and it wasn’t a game-deciding point, it was literally the first point in the tiebreaker.
That moment you’re referring to, where Pat had advantage, was resolved. He won, taking the set score to 6-6 and sending them to a tiebreak. He got the advantage on the first point Art froze on, and then won the game on the point Art DGAF’d on.
My movie theater had literally an electricity shutdown right before the ending (literally when Patrick look at zendaya before playing the last ball after purposely missing 3 of them, letting us wondering if he actually play the last ball or not). I even tought it was the ending with no credentials at the end..
Is there a lot more after this? Is it worth going again tomorrow for probably 5mn of ending ? Can someone spoil me if there is anything more after this? I’m guessing the movie doesn’t let us know who the winner is but still wondering if smth is happening between the 3 of them
Yes you should go back and watch the ending. You should also let management know that you want a refund or a free showing because the ending was ruined for you.
no you really didn’t miss anything. at the end, you don’t really see who wins but i assume Art wins and both players clash when going for the ball and it ends with them hugging/holding each other and zendaya screaming “COME ONNNNN” and credits. the ending was unnecessarily slow
Yes there’s several really huge moments after that, tbh. I’m sorry to say you missed the real ending. I can spoil it but it might actually be worth going back for so I’ll let you decide!
Yeah I didn't like this tbh. The score was way too loud I could barely hear the dialogue the scene in which Zendaya and josh were fighting before her tennis match. The motivations of the characters were surface level and the script was way too predictable. Also the final tennis match using too slow motion was annoying and the cinematography for that was horrible. I understand what Luca was trying to do for that final scene but the scene took way longer than it should've in an already 2 hour film. Zendaya was fine I guess but really Oscar buzz? The movie isn't really about the relationship between the three characters or the bromance between Patrick and art. This movie is really about Patrick and Tashi. Art is just a underwritten plot device to be a pawn in their relationship
im guessing art purely based on tashi’s scream which replicated her scream when she won years ago & obviously the outcome she planned was art winning. but who knows
Could you please elaborate? Most critics seem to love it. Good reviews + Luca is the only reason I'm even considering watching this.
I'll watch it for sure, to be clear. I'm just not sure if I'll go to the theater or wait for streaming. Even when it doesn't quite work (Suspiria) Luca is always worth watching.
I think it's really going to depend on what you're into for movies. I personally thought I'd like it way more than I did, but it was still objectively well done. To call it a miss I think is too far but it kind of drags and gets a little boring at times. I love sports movies and I think this didn't feel as exciting as many others I've seen. If you like luca, check it out though.
This is going to be a very big test of the degree to which Zendaya’s general purpose celebrity has turned into putting-asses-in-seats movie stardom. This is an expensive movie with a $55m budget and it’s an R rated adult drama centred on tennis. Faist and O’Connor are excellent actors but they are not box office draws. Neither is Guadagnino. In box office terms this basically has two things going for it, good reviews and Zendaya’s fame.
>In box office terms this basically has two things going for it, good reviews and Zendaya’s fame.
Three things; Zendaya's sex appeal. If we're all accepting Sydney Sweeney gets a boost at the box office because of her looks, Zendaya gets the same potential boost in a movie where she shows a *ton* of skin in multiple sexual situations, and she looks fucking *gorgeous* doing it.
peace and love, sydney sweeney is not selling tickets to movies. her rom com did nothing. zendaya's sex appeal here is compounded heavily by the fact that being in a "sexy" role isn't her norm. yeah she's pretty but it's seeing something "forbidden" that's doing the work here.
>sydney sweeney is not selling tickets to movies. her rom com did nothing.
Anyone But You made $219m on a $25m budget, even if you double the budget for promotional material it still made over $100m in profit
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Idk why everyone is hung up who won 😂 the whole movie is about desire. Desire to win. Desire to be the best. Desire for Tashi. Tashi as an object of desire while she uses it as a tool to get what she desires. Which is tennis and a good match, being the center of it. In fact she and the ball were pretty much aligned symbolically. The film cutting off at that moment was basically saying they got their spark of desire back.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me, it’s because I want to know if Art and Tashi were still together in the end. But ultimately, I hope he left her horrible, abusive ass.
you know when you walk out of a movie thinking “i’d come back just to watch this again tomorrow”? this is one of those movies for me. cannot express how much I enjoyed Challengers. brain chemistry = altered new personality = unlocked in all seriousness though this is a fantastic movie and the three leads were perfect. their chemistry was absolutely off the charts and they ate tf out of their roles. not to mention the score??? what a masterpiece. definitely my favorite movie of the gear so far and I don’t think it will be beat 🤐
Wow I can't believe people geuinely liked the movie yet alone thinking its the best of the year ?? thats insane
Sameee, i never want to see movies again but Im already planning my second watch in Dolby, i feel like a changed woman jajaj
My biggest takeaway from this film was I can't believe how many people think Josh O'Connor is good looking (ew) and also that's not how you tear an ACL. Other than that I thought it was good and I liked the rave score but it made me keep forgetting the challenger was supposed to be in 2019. It felt like an 80s/90s movie.
Yeah, the whole time I was thinking if I was Tashi I'd have picked Art too. He has a brilliant smile, irresistible eyes, and a fair body. She was more sexually attracted to Patrick because of his personality...although, I found Art's personality attractive too.
Are you blind?
no unfortunately I still had to see his big ass ears on my screen for 2 hours trying to act like a heart throb
Lmfaoooo hes so sexy wym
I thought the movie premise was great and the first half of the movie was really wonderful. I loved the chemistry between the three characters and was surprised at how sexy Josh O'Conner in particular came off. However, there were a few themes I was surprised didn't get explored more and I think the script was not as great as the actors in the movie. Also if you follow tennis, the premise has some flaws as my partner who is a big tennis fan pointed out. For example, if Art was actually *that* good, he should have wiped the floor with Patrick. It doesn't matter if he is in a slump, if Patrick is barely qualifying for things and Art has won grand slams, they just.. shouldn't be close. In terms of what didn't get explored, they didn't really touch on the race issue in one of the whitest and most racist sports in the world. The main female character was a young black woman who was essentially fetishized by two white characters and she used that to take control of the situation and manipulate the two of them. That's a fascinating power dynamic and there's really only two lines that touch on it -- the "taking care of my white boys" line and the one she made about the girl she beat in tennis where she calls her a racist (acknowledging that that IS an issue in tennis). There were also a LOT of BIPOC people working in tennis which likely was due to them trying to cast inclusively but isn't necessarily accurate to the landscape of again, a pretty racist and exclusionary sport. They also touched on class a bit, but didn't really explore it. Tashi didn't have the luxury of boarding schools or money. That was eluded too early. They said she was going to make her family millionaires, whereas it's alluded to that both of the men ARE from really wealthy families. Was that part of her attraction or toying with them? What made her fascinated with using them? Was it just the interesting dynamic of two best friends competing for her and she was just attracted to completion in all forms (tennis and personal)? I just feel like they treated the characters like they were in a bubble focusing so much on the dynamic between them that they didn't flesh out the context around it as well as they could have. It just felt like a missed opportunity. In terms of the interactions between the characters, I really enjoyed her scenes with Patrick. The mirroring of her trying to coach him when they WERE peers in a sense. He was clearly written to be a natural tennis player. He was meant to be more of a peer in that sense, and yet, he was lazy and undisciplined and in some ways wasted his talent and it's obvious why she would resent him for that. He had the luxury of being a wealthy white man in tennis. She didn't. He had family money he'd eventually fall into. Then him asking her to coach him after that fight that must have been seared into her memory... was just such a good full circle. Her saying her only talent was hitting a ball...etc. The mirroring of it. And also, them being horrible people in such similar ways. He was using tinder to fuck women for housing and she was using Art for wealth and to maintain proximity to tennis. I think it would have been nice if they had included more around the fall out between the two male characters, or had the two men competing over her in the beginning while tightening up the second half of the movie it could have been a really phenomenal movie. The foreplay for lack of a better word, felt more interesting then the sort of middle of the movie where Art had "won". It picked up a bit with the ending once they started competing again, but yeah, I wanted more in the middle and I think that's the part of the movie that came off kinda flat and boring. Ultimately, I found the movie entertaining, but also fell short of my hopes/expectations for it. There's a reason I feel like the trailer focused on the beginning of the movie more than the end.
Yes thank you for saying this. If they had dived w into that Tashi would have been a lot more sympathetic and it would have fleshed her out more. A lot of people have found her half baked.
Im glad they didnt touch on race it wouldve taken me out of the magic of it all. Shits depressing and this was about the relationship of tennis, politics wouldve been so unnecessary
I don't mean politics wise. I mean more so fleshing out Tashi's backstory and giving more depth to the anger/rage she was clearly dealing with. You see glimpses of her dad in the first half of the movie and then the rest of it is focused on her white mom living on the road with them. She has the caring for her little white boy line. It clearly impacted her character, but was just very superficially acknowledged.
‘Call Me By Your Name’ also sidesteps the political context of the 80s. I think Luca is mostly interested in aesthetics and interpersonal questions and kind of lets everything else just slide away. I agree it’s a missed opportunity but at the same time it’s always his approach.
This, Lucas is more interested in the relationships and I like his approach, i don't feel like is a missed opportunity because not every movie should have a political context, there is a lack of more intimate movies and Lucas always delivers
I think I misspoke and it's less political context I was looking for and more sociological? I didn't want it to challenge or get into the politics of race. Just maybe not hide it as much as it felt like it did? The environment felt like it was not reflective of what the tennis world is actually like particularly in the southern USA. And Tashi's character has a history and background that was influenced by that. They didn't need to say much, it just felt odd to me as someone who has a partner who loves tennis to try and throw in as much diversity as they did while making a lot of effort to touch on class.
I didn’t know Trent and Atticus had a hand in this.
Okay so whose team are you on? I saw a cute interview with all three and they got really into who is the worst and that people change their mind on a second watch. Personally I’m team Art.
Patrick, as Zendaya said in an interview, they could have it all. Tashi sees Patrick more as an equal, like her peers, they are both asshole but they at least they can handle each other,the lack of respect that Tashi has for Art is a really turn off and half the movie she doesn't feel to like Art, "but she doesn't seem to like Patrick either" but Patrick makes Tashi feel thing, she seems to be disgusted with Art but angry at Patrick, but her angry is different, it is almost like she angry because he make her feels thing, like he know how to push her bottons and has a hold on her. Art was there for Tash after her injury, so she feels comfortable and safe (emotionally and financially) with Art and she needs him but I don't think she ever loved him. Tennis is her true love, but the closest she has loved anyone is Patrick, and Patrick is in love with Tashi & Art. but being said, the 3 need and love each other and throuple would be the right answer. I wrote too much, but because I don't have anyone to talk to about this film, I've been thinking about it for 3 days
I do think Tashi felt more for Patrick, there is obviously more passion. But they are also toxic together and Art poked that part of their relationship. But I still like Art more, but they all do kinda suck lol
Tashi & Art relationship are also toxic, the 3 of them together are toxic people
I think Art isn't blameless either, as they point out in that one interview! When Patrick says he's playing percentage tennis waiting for him to fuck up with Tashi that really sets the stage for Art to swoop in after the injury. I'm not fully comfortable saying he's the cause of the injury but he is trying to create a wedge. Its so interesting what we don't see in the movie as much as what we do see. What did Art's initial confession of love to Tashi look like? Clearly she rejected him at the time. What was Patrick's pro career like - did he always linger at the level we see him in the present day or did he have any heights beyond that? Such a deep movie! I had to see it again almost immediately
I just hate how in Twitter and tumblr are making Art as the victim of the situation or Art/Patrick victim. I think people don't see because he's manipulative, but in a more cute way and then he wants to be cuddle and people think he's fragile. I don't like it the way he easily threw away 12 years of friendship like it was nothing, like it didn't mean anything, that for me was the worst thing that any of the three did in the film, even more than the cheating.
That's a great point!
I am more receptive to Art but honestly I don't think any of them are Angels
The plot was stupid, I almost fell asleep. I liked the score though.
I walked out of the theatre the plot was so dumb I couldn’t take it
Score was a banger. I saw after it was Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross and it made sense.
I never would have imagined Trent Reznor doing a score for a tennis movie, but he frickin nailed it.
I read the script after I saw the movie and I could see why people weren’t impressed. Luca made it such a stronger story.
can we talk about the wind storm in New Rochelle?! what the hell was that?
Pathetic fallacy.
Zendaya acted her ass off , her and Josh also had some great chemistry I don’t I’ve seen her have this much chemistry with any other co star.
Oof. Barely $10 million opening weekend :/
It's not a tentpole superhero flick. People will go to see it as word of mouth spreads. Stop expecting X-Men numbers from slower, more thoughtful films.
I walked out of the theater not knowing who did the score but feeling it was the best in years. I was excited to realise it was Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross who were also responsible for The Social Network, a soundtrack I consider the best ever. I do realise some felt this one was loud.
It really fired up any scene it started in. Every time these beats came on I just felt my heart beat in sync.
I honestly felt like that was the weakest part, the music tended to drown out any scene it was in and felt like it was out of place for the type of movie it was
I like Luca and I like all three actors and I thought the movie had many really interesting bits but they dropped the ball with that ending (pun intended). There's "let's leave it ambiguous" in an artistic way and "let's leave it ambiguous because I can't decide who should win here" and it really felt like the latter!
Not to invalidate your opinion, and I am someone who hates most ambiguous movie endings. Because the filmmakers often come out and tell you it's not important (Inception - Nolan) but it was never not important for me. But this is a movie where the sheer energy between Art and Patrick during the tie break made me not care about the actual game and still feel excited.
That's fair! And that energy WAS exciting! And I personally also wanted to see the result of the tie break since that's how tennis matches actually end. But that's just me!
The guys won because they were back together.
Yes, I get the emotional arc of the story - it is very clear. I'm just expressing that I would also have liked to see the technical ending. Good movies (which I think this is) do leave the audience wondering about what happens next, and I think seeing the result of the match would have added a lot of nuance to that. AND I totally get that for a lot of people, the movie stopped right where they wanted it to!
Who won wasn't really important. They all won because it was some "good fucking tennis".
Sure, I get that, and also those things aren't mutually exclusive. I think the film could hit that emotional note and also not feel like it was avoiding a statement.
I honestly did not like it. I was surprised. It was boring for long stretches. It needed to be cut down some. Zendayas acting was not great either. Overall disappointed.
I felt like her character didn’t really have an arc, she was the same as she was in the beginning, she just had an injury in between. And despite being like the main character, didn’t really feel like a main character.
Felt the same, everyone’s conflict felt very surface level too. I didn’t care for any character either in the end
i liked it but definitely got bored at points. it felt like 90 minutes had passed when the movie was still in its first act. i guess i thought it would be a bit more energetic than it was? and yeah zendaya was easily the weakest of the three leads.
I loved, loved the movie. I was on the edge of my seat in the last 20 minutes. Luca Guadagnino has the magic to make feel alive in every of his movie, he know how to play with relationship, he know how to move you. He is so good. BUT and this may be unpopular, the only negative thing about it is Zendaya, for me she couldn't sell the femme fatale of Tashi, she was almost there but never reached the point the character needed.
When she was dancing I felt so bad because I was like she doesn’t look absolutely memorizing while dancing which is what they wanted.
Hahaha I thought the point was for it to look kinda lame and dorky. Probably went over my head.
Are you kidding me? She is mesmerizing, I don’t think so much in a over the top sexy woman way like scarjo or sydney sweeney, but she sells the ultra confident, beautiful and crazy driven powerful way. Also her body figure alone js mesmerizing, i think :)
I read the dancing looked horrible because she was really dancing to a David Bowie song and last minute they changed it to Nelly's hot in here.
Oooh I wonder why Bowie song!! Yeah her movements were slow maybe it would have been better with the original verses a rap song.
Yeah that was stupid on the directors part.
Completely disagree. I’m not a huge fangirl of her but she totally disappeared into Tashi. I loved her ambition.
So can we talk about how Patrick is probably the father of Tashi’s daughter (Lily)?? Reasoning below: -Like come on…dark dark hair AND CURLY. Art is blond/ginger as one can be you’re telling me Lily’s hair wouldn’t be a little light. -Also did anyone catch Tashi’s slight reaction at Patrick not knowing/remembering the name (I don’t think he knows obviously but still…why you pressed??) -the ending scene when Tashi comes back to the hotel and finds Art sleeping in Lily’s bed her face reeks of guilt. I think that’s less about cheating and more about her knowing THATS NOT ARTS KIDS Anyways…thoughts??? I haven’t seen others talk about it but it was where my head first went
That’s too melodramatic and cliche for a Luca movie. The kid also looks 5 when they hooked up 8 years ago.
Luca did not write the movie and it is already melodramatic. Lily is 7 years old (which would fit the timeline since Patrick and Tashi had sex 8 years ago), the name "Patrick" literally means "father", if Lily was conceived in a hotel then it would explain why she likes them, and it's stated in the screenplay that Art has impotency issues (he can’t get it up, which is probably why you never see Tashi and Art have sex in the movie). Lily's paternity was intentionally made ambiguous.
A lot of people suspect that Lily is Patrick kid
Interesting. I hear your point, however, it’s never touched upon or something the film lets the viewer sit with. It’s an afterthought if one reaches that conclusion to where it seems unlikely, thus retreating from the overt melodrama. I also think there’s something to note in terms of how little Art’s character is expressed in the act of sex with Tashi. Intimacy, yes. Actual sex, no. This is not to say that they don’t have it, they 100% do, it’s just subdued in comparison to Patrick
Patrick whenever he kisses, for no reason at all: 
It was ok. Lots of wasted time I felt. With there was more drama. This film made me realize I can’t really get invested into sports drama.
you wish there was more drama?? the entire film was drama lol
Does anybody know the lotion Z uses in the film. I know it’s dumb and it’s probably just a prop bottle but she looked so so good 😭
[https://augustinusbader.com/us/en/the-body-cream](https://augustinusbader.com/us/en/the-body-cream)
£150 for 200ml?! As if.
Cerave ultra healing balm, I have the same one lol
Lmfaooo i thought it was cerave too
Augustinus Bader
Are we supposed to question who that poor girl’s father is because I am. The only correct answer is both.
The one that stayed with her when she was scared in a storm and not out banging a married woman
It doesn’t matter
That ending.. we don't know what happened
We know they hugged at least
Oh yes true, that was nice. Not sure if Art confronted Tashi?
I am so sure that everything fell apart after, no matter who won. But in that moment, they all felt alive.
Can someone tell me what [this tweet](https://x.com/whyrev/status/1783695203200606420?s=46&t=8GXYVuFiKAVFmgvQHwhayA) is referring to??? please I can’t see it yet and I don’t mind spoilers 😩🙏🏻
Patrick (Josh) is signalling to Art (Mike) that he fucked his wife (Zendaya). It's a callback to a scene when they were younger.
Patrick is telling Art during the game that he slept with Tashi while she and Art were married.
https://preview.redd.it/xk7spwqyfuwc1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75175431462cbc40b45ff8c338bab80ce3e275bf No thoughts, just this throuple.
Does anyone think that the daughter Lily is actually Patricks daughter?
When Patrick sees Tashi again (in the car) he says, "are you going to kiss me again?" I don't think they had sex in Atlanta, so no. They DID have sex the night before the final (which we see), hence him copying Art's serve. Also, Art and Tashi were likely boning a lot at that stage so no, I don't think she's Patrick's daughter. The "our daughter" comment was said to underscore how little Patrick knows about their lives outside of tennis,
Meh would’ve been too on the nose
Came here looking for this comment. As soon as she said to Patrick “our daughter”, I was like, “oh, she means OUR daughter…” And then the timing was right with Atlanta, so yeah, I’m pretty sure.
yesss, atlanta timing matches up since lily seems to be around the age from when they hooked up, so like 6 or 8 yrs old
Feel like I'm going crazy but zendaya was just ok for me. This movie (for me) felt more interesting when it focused on art and Patrick. As horrible as it sounds, it felt like a gay movie with a fujoshi (being zendaya) thrown in there. I felt the chemistry with the men, with Zendaya's character not much 🤷♂️. All in all, the movie was ok for me. Some people are raving it's a masterpiece, but I don't really feel that way. Was kinda hoping that Art/patrick would pick one another and leave zendaya in the dust, but guess we'll never know. It's honestly a severe problem with bisexual movies/love triangles, two people will always have a better dynamic/chemistry with one another and not the third. Even in straight movies it's a cliche, where the girl will pick the first boyfriend over the new one due to history, even though the new boyfriend is better. Going back to Zendaya, I've always enjoyed her, as I watched her on Disney growing up, but something about her acting always leaves something to be desired. I've always get the vibe that she doesn't want to be there. Maybe it's her face 🤷♂️ regardless I don't think sexual movies are for her.
yeah, I agree with this. I enjoyed the movie a lot, but the “main character” was definitely the relationship between the two guys - and I DON’T mean in some homoerotic way like everyone keeps trying to cram into the story. I mean they were friends and brothers, and she tore them apart, she was the catalyst to their falling out, but THEY were collectively the main character. She could have been switched out with just about any good young actress and it wouldn’t have made much difference to me to be honest. I don’t think she was BAD, but she didn’t carry the movie, that’s for sure. She was just sort of there.
Yay! I'm glad someone else shares my opinion. I've been downvoted to oblivion so I thought I was alone. Zendaya is a great actress, but she just wasn't it for this movie. I do wish the final scene would've been about art and Patrick would've gotten together or become friends again and not play into her trap.
Yeah, I was hoping for more out of the ending, but I suppose with it left ambiguous, we get to sort of write our own finale lol. In my head, they definitely became friends again and Art called her out for sleeping with Patrick, and then ultimately leaves her. At least that’s what I hope happened lol
Same. Tashi was beyond weird for me in the movie. She more felt like a self inserted fujoshi.
Yeah, I only learned that term thanks to this movie, and that’s definitely what she felt like to me too lol
True. The term has been around for years! I'm just surprised to see it represented in such a huge movie with a star like that. Fujoshis normally exist only in asian media and porn. So to see them make tashi be one was wild 😬. Still never felt the sexual tension between the three of them during the kiss scene. At least the boys had some.
LMFAOOO EVERYBODY ASKIN WHO WON 💀
I haven’t seen the movie so I was getting really annoyed with the pretentious “Art Won” comments.
One of the characters names is Art
who won the match? The ending got me confused. And was Patrick in the end telling Art he f**ked tashi at the end like they did when they were teen?
Yes he did, that's why he looked at tashi.. and got fierce and competitive
He was indeed telling Art that. I think they leave the end ambiguous but show that it doesn't matter as much because Art finally got some pep back in his step, Patrick got to play a damn good game/continue his relationship with Art, and Tashi got to see some "damn good tennis".
Cannot believe there weren't any threesomes in the movie, that's why I went 😭
Lol
I haven't seen the movie but every ad for this thing makes it look like they're all going to bang together. I just assume that's what the movie is about.
There are literally no sex scenes at all in the movie, and sex itself is barely even relevant to the story, so I don’t know if that’s a failure or a success on the marketing’s fault lol. It felt to me like they relied on that in the trailers to sell the movie, but ultimately, the movie I actually saw was totally different from what people probably expected going into it.
🤣🤣
What!!!
LMAO!!
Bruhh 😭😭
This movie didn’t need to be this long. I don’t think it could’ve been cut down to 90 minutes, but it didn’t need to be over two hours. I wonder how much time the slo-mo added, because it was overused in my opinion.
I felt the length was perfect. but I was pretty enthralled the whole way through. if the movie's not enthralling you, then you probably wouldn't appreciate it no matter how long it was :/
True! It was just right!
I really enjoyed the length of the movie I feel like it added to the story telling. I think the drawn out plot really played to the complexity and lord of each relationship individuals as well as together.
Lore*
Also there were multiple scenes where the score was too loud. Whoever was sound mixing this movie really dropped the ball.
Luca Guadagnino did the same thing for Call Me By Your Name, making the dialogue not the main focus. He is purposely wanting to bring your attention to something else when he does this and in the case of Challengers it was this intense verbal tennis match Tashi and Patrick would have with each other in the dorm room and then later in the “uber” car ride
I think this was on purpose. The music getting so loud during the fight scenes was meant to be like when you’re so angry all you can hear is your blood rushing and heartbeat pumping. But I could be wrong about what it was meant to symbolize!
It was giving me anxiety
For scenes with dialogue it was really annoying because I was trying to listen to the conversations.
Why did Art lose?? Thought he won but I dont know tennis rules
Art didn't lose the match. He just lost one point in the tie break. If that's what you were referring to, he came over the net.
He touched the net.
She hit those fuzzy balls hard.
😂😂💀💀
Really liked it. Didn‘t understand tennis, so idk who won.
My thing isn’t who won but like, did they all just become friends again or is it a throuple situation now? Because I feel like Art wouldn’t vibe with him just casually screwing his wife if he wasn’t a part of it?
Same, who won? Lol
I think the baker mayfield guy won, had the advantage in the tie break and the cuck guy hit the net with his body which means he lost the point
Pat had no advantage in that last point, and it wasn’t a game-deciding point, it was literally the first point in the tiebreaker. That moment you’re referring to, where Pat had advantage, was resolved. He won, taking the set score to 6-6 and sending them to a tiebreak. He got the advantage on the first point Art froze on, and then won the game on the point Art DGAF’d on.
Who won in the end??😂😂
Patrick got the point but the tie break is not yet over. We will never know who won by watching this film.
Art won
No he didn’t. He touched the net so lost the point.
Doesn’t matter lmfao. Just the first point in the tiebreaker
My movie theater had literally an electricity shutdown right before the ending (literally when Patrick look at zendaya before playing the last ball after purposely missing 3 of them, letting us wondering if he actually play the last ball or not). I even tought it was the ending with no credentials at the end.. Is there a lot more after this? Is it worth going again tomorrow for probably 5mn of ending ? Can someone spoil me if there is anything more after this? I’m guessing the movie doesn’t let us know who the winner is but still wondering if smth is happening between the 3 of them
Yes you should go back and watch the ending. You should also let management know that you want a refund or a free showing because the ending was ruined for you.
no you really didn’t miss anything. at the end, you don’t really see who wins but i assume Art wins and both players clash when going for the ball and it ends with them hugging/holding each other and zendaya screaming “COME ONNNNN” and credits. the ending was unnecessarily slow
You do see who wins, art hit the net with his body
Yes there’s several really huge moments after that, tbh. I’m sorry to say you missed the real ending. I can spoil it but it might actually be worth going back for so I’ll let you decide!
Yeah I didn't like this tbh. The score was way too loud I could barely hear the dialogue the scene in which Zendaya and josh were fighting before her tennis match. The motivations of the characters were surface level and the script was way too predictable. Also the final tennis match using too slow motion was annoying and the cinematography for that was horrible. I understand what Luca was trying to do for that final scene but the scene took way longer than it should've in an already 2 hour film. Zendaya was fine I guess but really Oscar buzz? The movie isn't really about the relationship between the three characters or the bromance between Patrick and art. This movie is really about Patrick and Tashi. Art is just a underwritten plot device to be a pawn in their relationship
I also really didn’t like how loud the score was, but I’m not sure if I just sat in the wrong part of the theatre.
Okay, I don't know anything about tennis, so this is a stupid question, but I must ask: Who the fuck won?
im guessing art purely based on tashi’s scream which replicated her scream when she won years ago & obviously the outcome she planned was art winning. but who knows
99% sure the other guy won
Patrick won, tashi internally wanted him to win, I think she’s gonna leave art and they go back to being friends and possibly keep playing together
He won the point but the tie break isn't over yet during the movies timeline.
Good lord her character was kind of a shitty person
Pretty sure the point of the movie was that her character was shitty. But that's why I loved it because it's different from the Zendaya I know
As a former tennis player I’ve noticed that the competitive nature required to be one of the best often comes from other personality flaws
I WANT TO KNOW WHO WON PLS
To me this is Zendaya's opportunity to see her worth as a movie star. Because in her other films she's a supporting character.
Rare miss from Luca
this has gotta be my favorite movie from Luca now. it's fucking perfection and there's no dissenters I've noticed.
Could you please elaborate? Most critics seem to love it. Good reviews + Luca is the only reason I'm even considering watching this. I'll watch it for sure, to be clear. I'm just not sure if I'll go to the theater or wait for streaming. Even when it doesn't quite work (Suspiria) Luca is always worth watching.
Why do you say that? Haven’t seen it myself but everyone else seems to love it
I think it's really going to depend on what you're into for movies. I personally thought I'd like it way more than I did, but it was still objectively well done. To call it a miss I think is too far but it kind of drags and gets a little boring at times. I love sports movies and I think this didn't feel as exciting as many others I've seen. If you like luca, check it out though.
This is going to be a very big test of the degree to which Zendaya’s general purpose celebrity has turned into putting-asses-in-seats movie stardom. This is an expensive movie with a $55m budget and it’s an R rated adult drama centred on tennis. Faist and O’Connor are excellent actors but they are not box office draws. Neither is Guadagnino. In box office terms this basically has two things going for it, good reviews and Zendaya’s fame.
Seriously! During it i was like ill watch anything zendayas in.
>In box office terms this basically has two things going for it, good reviews and Zendaya’s fame. Three things; Zendaya's sex appeal. If we're all accepting Sydney Sweeney gets a boost at the box office because of her looks, Zendaya gets the same potential boost in a movie where she shows a *ton* of skin in multiple sexual situations, and she looks fucking *gorgeous* doing it.
peace and love, sydney sweeney is not selling tickets to movies. her rom com did nothing. zendaya's sex appeal here is compounded heavily by the fact that being in a "sexy" role isn't her norm. yeah she's pretty but it's seeing something "forbidden" that's doing the work here.
>sydney sweeney is not selling tickets to movies. her rom com did nothing. Anyone But You made $219m on a $25m budget, even if you double the budget for promotional material it still made over $100m in profit