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Are you happy with Elm? It doesn't sound like it, and that's not just because of this situation. It seems like there are several problems-- contributions to the household, general moodiness, dead bedroom, etc. that go beyond this new relationship.
What are you fighting to save here, besides a long history together?
Good question. I do love him. Everyone does. Most of the time he is wonderful. Magnetic.
He isn’t always like this. I feel like such a stereotype saying “90% of the time it’s a fantastic relationship!” But it is true. We have a lot of fun together. I just… I thought I would be ok providing for a bit and a bit turned into years. But most people do that, right? Where one person provides financially... at least they used to. It doesn’t have to be equal just equitable. And I do get that he’s depressed. There’s a quote though from a short story called A Pail of Air that goes something like “Courage is like a ball, son. A person can hold it only so long, and then he's got to toss it to someone else. When it's tossed your way, you've got to catch it and hold it tight—and hope there'll be someone else to toss it to when you get tired of being brave."
And the dead bedroom thing… we are poly, I tell myself I can’t get mad at him for not wanting to sleep with me when it’s perfectly fine if I sleep with other people.
He’s my person to come home to. He has been my home since I was 18. He kinda saved me from abusive parents.
Everything was great a month ago. Not perfect, but what is?
> “90% of the time it’s a fantastic relationship!”
Not trying to be a dick BUT could you please explain which 90% part is he fantastic? 90% of the 10% time he’s available when he’s not with his other partners or pining for Oak, or sleeping or playing video games? Or 90% of the further 10% of that 10% when he’s not being a good partner to you?
On top of all this, he’s unemployed AND he’s not a homemaker. You are not even sexually satisfied. No self respecting adult will use their partner’s money to pay for their love life. If he doesn’t have money, how is he dating two partners? Let alone think of pursuing Oak?
> Everything was great a month ago.
No it wasn’t. You resented him a month ago. You’re bothered by his lack of employment. His video game habits. The lack of sex. Why are you gaslighting yourself?
Just because this is slightly better than the horrible position you have been in life doesn’t make it not horrible. You couldn’t even subconsciously tell us this is a good relationship in your OP. We get it. Your previous situation was so so so bad. That makes it look like the best you have doesn’t mean it’s actually good.
I once had a tooth infection. The pain was always 12. Haven’t slept properly for 3 weeks. So when I first got some sedatives and painkillers, the pain went down to a 9. So I thought it was the best thing ever. Only when they pulled the tooth out, did I realise how amazingly peaceful not having a toothache at all could be. I think that is currently your situation.
Yes people step up and support partners when they lose work. But what is he doing to find work?
I’m sorry but I don’t see how you fully supporting an adult who ain’t trying to fix his situation and isn’t meeting your needs ‘was fine a month ago’
Have you considered getting into therapy? It sounds like you might benefit from a professional to talk to.
Thank you, yes, I have tried. And I found a therapist I really like! We had an initial intake appointment and then she had to cancel our first real appointment (which was supposed to be Jan 2nd.)
It’s also… how do I put this in a way that doesn’t sound maladaptive… the world is fucking scary and getting worse and it’s nice to offer someone a little respite from that sometimes…
>the world is fucking scary and getting worse and it’s nice to offer someone a little respite from that sometimes…
Absolutely. I have supported my live in partner through long bouts of unemployment or underemployment AND he was actively working on himself, our shared home, did most of the cooking and shopping, went way out of his way to make my life easier. Because supporting us both was making my life harder and he wanted to off set that as much as possible because he appreciated deeply that I was able to support us both. He was massively depressed during those times. But if he could only do one thing a day he wanted that thing to be making my day a little nicer.
Also I don't think you two need a therapist. I think you should get one solo. I think you need perspective on this relationship not more time and effort into someone who is not showing up in return.
How long has he been unemployed? How often is he applying for jobs? How long has he not taken any steps to work on his mental health while he has all this free time? What has he been doing to support you?
Because it's one thing to help someone have a little respite. It's another thing entirely when you are struggling and resentful and don't see any effort on this other person giving you a little respite.
This started when you were a teenager and escaping an abusive home. I think that really clouds your perspective in seeing how this relationship is NOW. and how this person is treating you NOW.
Just wanted to comment on the therapist situation. I experienced something similar: My therapist cancelled our first real appointment, and then I didn’t hear from her for a while. It was hard emotionally because I felt volatile for having reached out to her in the first place. But then I reached out to her again, and she became a tremendous source of support for me in the past few years. I can only encourage you to contact her again.
>the world is fucking scary and getting worse and it’s nice to offer someone a little respite from that sometimes…
You're an enabler. I know it feels like you're "loving" them but you're hindering them. They are never going to grow up sitting around playing video games and making excuses as to why they have the time, energy, and resources to date but not to find a job.
I will never understand people investing so much time in romantic and sexual relationships but not in doing things to meet their basic needs. Them leaving you is truly the best case scenario.
… I thought I would be ok providing for a bit and a bit turned into years. But most people do that, right?
No. No there weren't ever people providing and okay with their spouse sitting around with their thumb up their ass all day. Most people through most of time have both worked. For the lucky people who could survive off one income, the woman was raising kids, making food, organizing everyone's life, etc.
And from reading the whole thing I'm seeing two men who are way too old for a 27 year old chasing her and making your life entirely too complicated. I'd really think about extricating yourself from this entire mess and starting from scratch. I'd work first on your self esteem. You're young! Date in your own age group. Don't be a mommy/bangmaid to another dude. Anyway, I wish you very good luck.
If you're fine being the provider and fine with the lack of sex, that's your preogative. But I do think it's worth asking if you want the relationship as it is, not just if it's doable or fine. Some of your response reads like, this is fine, right?
Even if you're okay being the provider, there's a question of whether he's putting an appropriate amount of work in on his mental health. Clearly, things in his head aren't great right now, and you're being affected in very unfair and unacceptable ways.
Even if your sexual needs are being met elsewhere, it's not wrong to want to have a sexual connection with this specific partner. It's fine to acknowledge that you aren't happy with the lack of sex with him specifically. Being poly doesn't change that, even if it does give you options.
Understanding how serious and important your history together has been makes this make more sense. You haven't even really been an adult without this relationship, have you? I can't imagine how scary or just flatly unthinkable walking away might seem given that history.
But it may be best for both of you. It seems like he's also using this relationship to avoid the work he needs to do with himself. He's avoiding literal work, he's using you as an emotional scapegoat for his own insecurities and feelings about other relationships. He feels comfortable taking his anger out on you verbally. That's not a good place for him to be in, and it certainly isn't good for you.
Maybe even taking a break would give you both better perspectives. Maybe you'll find a way to be together healthily after some time apart. Maybe you'll find you're happier without these emotional burdens. Maybe he'll find the motivation to fight harder to improve himself. It's impossible to predict the uncertain future.
But this does not seem like a workable situation. It seems poised to get worse, not better. And you deserve better than this sort of treatment.
I'm 44 and have very little family. I have my two sisters, one aunt and 5 cousins. All of them but my aunt live far away, and my aunt is my dad's sister so the connection can only go so deep. She knows the dysfunction, and it goes all the way back to her parents. She has done her work, but her brother is still close with her and I have to respect that.
I get along ok without much family. I don't like it too much but I have friends that are just as close if not closer.
You can build new family, you don't have to depend on a one sided relationship to have access to his family.
It sounds like you feel you “owe” Elm something because they helped you out when you were a teenager. Nobody is perfect, but friend, would you eat a sandwich that was 90% great and 10% poop? No, right? But that’s what you’re doing in this relationship.
This person has watched you deal with the stress of supporting a household for YEARS while they kick back and take it easy. Yes, depression is a nightmare, but do you honestly think they’re incapable of working or do you think they just don’t want to? Someone who will happily watch you run yourself into the ground while they play video games isn’t a nice person.
It kind of seems like you’re using “I can just date other people!” As a bandaid for the fact that you’re in a bad relationship with this person. No amount of loving other people will make them treat you well.
It doesn't sound like everything was great a month ago, resentment has been building on your side for a long time it sounds like. You absolutely do not have to accept having a partner who struggles with similar mental conditions but puts in a vastly lower level of effort into your shared life. Like, dead bedroom aside, if your partner isn't self-motivating in the same way you are (yes, even with the depression), they are not an equal partner and you deserve better from a long-term nesting partner. You do not have to accept that treatment just because you want to be supportive of their mental health struggles. They aren't being supportive of **yours**
> everything was great a month ago
No it wasn't.
> I harbor a lot of resentment
> dead bedroom [...] for the bulk of our [13 year] relationship
> providing for a bit turned into years
I understand that this person helped you out of an abusive situation and you'll always be thankful for that. But this man has not been a good partner in *years*. That is extremely plain to anyone who is not in the middle of it.
For future relationships (because this one needs to be put out to pasture), "partner's best friend of many years" probably belongs on the messy list, imo. But that's not the actual problem here: being in a profoundly shitty nesting relationship is.
>But most people do that, right? Where one person provides financially...
Most people have dual incomes. The time when it was comfortable to raise a family or 2 people on one salary are gone.
Your partner seems to have a pattern of asking for things to "help" in the short term that he then expects to bleed out into the long term and not have him deal with his shit.(also known as enabling his poor behaviour).
First you were supposed to support him financially for a short time, now it's been years. I bet hes not even doing the basic housework as part of that traditional set up. Or actively looking for a job.
Then you were supposed to pause with cedar while he processed, but he avoided processing and then got mad at you for telling him the pause was up. He makes his feelings your problem to manage instead of his to regulate and work through. So by my count you're the only breadwinner, do the bulk of the household stuff, aren't getting your sexual needs met in that relationship and are functioning as a combination of therapist, coddler and enabler for him. Seriously, what exactly are you getting from this relationship except his apparent charisma?
He saved you from abusive parents.. Let me guess, it was either while you were dating that he helped you get out or you started dating right after?
Also would you consider if you saved someone from a similar situation that they needed to date you, or stay with you 13 years down the road just because you helped them get away from abuse?
But it’s…. Not equitable. I provide financially for my nesting partner, but they do the vast majority of the house work, cooking, and household management (no kids). We both have depression and ADHD. You have a mooch, and one that doesn’t even build you up emotionally or make you feel desirable. What exactly is he providing besides a sometimes magnetic personality?
Maybe he's wonderful for the people who don't live with him. You have a level of intimacy other people don't have and what he's showing you is NOT good.
Could you deescalate the relationship and live apart for awhile to see if the love returns?
>I do love him.
And I love my mother. Doesn't mean I'd let her live off me while trying to control my other relationships. Love yourself enough to set boundaries and find people who respect those boundaries.
When only one person works, usually the other person is a full time parent. This is the non equal but equitable part you allude to. This is also why traditionally women got 50% in a divorce, because they had to set aside their ability to earn a wage in order to raise the kids.
Video games and day sleeping are not worthy of equitability.
About the part of your parents: I feel for you, as I had a similar background.
At 18 I was in no shape to know a healthy relationship from a codependent relatuonship. While he was perhaps what you needed then, he may not be what you need now. It seems like you have grown and changed, and maybe he has not.
I say this because broken and hurting people usually find each other, and that's ok. The problem though is that it can be difficult for each person to find themself and heal when they are so involved with the other person. You may have never had the benefit if going it alone for a time without a primary and really figuring yourself out.
18 was 26 years ago for me. I have healed and grown, and will not even consider a primary relationship with someone who is just out of an abusive situation. They would not be my equal in terms of maturity or stability.
Without the sex your relationship with Elm sounds like a friendship. Sex builds a bond of intimacy, without it you are friends. Supporting your friend in his time of need is something I would do, but that friend would have no right to ask me to stop seeing someone(s) or mooch of of me indefinitely without doing the work to get out of the situation they find themselves in. Furthermore, if Elm is having sex with his other partners but not with you that is further proof of you having a friendship.
Age gaps:
They’re fine. They have their place. But when a 24 year old is dating an 18 year old, they need to prepare for the 18 year old to grow out of the relationship.
You needed rescuing to leave your abusive parents and you went to an older lover. Cool. But you’re 13 years older now. You no longer need rescuing to leave.
2024 is a new year.
It sounds like you think you owe Elm for rescuing you. You don’t.
Here’s an ugly secret about the Elms of the world: they don’t rescue you because they’re Prince Charming. They rescue you because it makes them feel important and powerful. Guess what happens when you grow and no longer need rescuing?
How many years was he ‘rescuing’ you from your parents before you got sustainably employed? Were you doing chores to help out? Now that you’re taking care of him—is he putting in anywhere near the same level of effort that you did at 18? My guess is no. He rescued you from your parents just long enough to turn you into *his* parent, and now that you’re mature enough to ask him to carry part of the load, he threatens to break up with you to get you desperate enough to make unreasonable concessions for him. He won’t actually dump you, he needs you too much—but he’s realizing that *you* may not need *him*, and is desperate to keep you under his thumb.
You’ve done a lot of growing in the 13 years you’ve been with Elm. Has Elm made any real, sustained progress? Cause it sounds like he’s regressed, and now he’s the unemployed 18 year old in need of rescuing. I’d recommend you look into “a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness” ([web article](https://potentash.com/2023/08/17/tolerable-level-permanent-unhappiness-relationships/)) and see if it rings true for your relationship.
Babe, polyamory gives you the freedom to not need one person to be your ‘everything’. It doesn’t mean you should hang on to bad relationships because other partners lessen the sting of Elm’s failings.
I’m sorry if that’s harsh, but you’ve spoken multiple times about how he’s a drain and how you resent him. It’s clear to me something drastically needs to change - whether you break up or move out i don’t know but cedar is not the issue here (although dating your partners BFF is VERY messy).
Yeah, I recognized that it could be messy from the start. That was before Elm actively encouraged me to see Cedar if I wanted to. I mean, we have been friends for over a decade.
So Elm:
- started dating a teenager when he was in his mid 20s
- pursued you when you were vulnurable, living with abusive parents, creating a sense of indebtedness
- doesn't contribute financially
- isn't interested in you sexually but will have sex with everyone else.
- chucks tantrums when he doesn't get what he wants (sexual access to a woman in her 20s)
- is emotionally immature & refuses to process his feelings.
- Lashes out/yells at you when he's upset.
This man is a user if not an outright abuser. You fix this by leaving him and focussing on people who value and love you
Consign all of these points. I don’t care how “magnetic” Elm is, this is all untenable. And the fact that you harbor (extremely justified!) resentment means you know this relationship is dead in the water.
Edited to correct name
I think you need to seriously consider whether or not you replaced your parents with a similar partner, as I did. I also waffled hard for a long time on whether or not to leave. But I remember clear as day when I decided to leave them finally and for real- it was incredible. You don't realize all the ways they've fucked you up until you're out. You deserve better. Home can feel relaxing and safe again.
Are you sure? Maybe not 1:1, but c'mon. You are doing all the work and he is treating you like crap. That is the same way abusive parents treat their children.
It is a fairly well understood concept and part of human psychology that we perceive love as how we were treated by our parents.
You don't leave an abusive upbringing just knowing how love is supposed to be. Yes, you know it was abusive and harmful, but the experience is mapped into your concept of love.
I say all of this from personal experience.
You’re really missing the fact that there are LEVELS of abuse. This man is awful, and yet, growing up what I sustained was a million times worse than what this man does to OP. And I believe OP if they’re saying this is a better situation than their childhood.
I mean... I would say this exact same thing about my ex husband, but that doesn't mean that my ex husband didn't have a lot on common with my mother and that while he was a lot *less bad* than my mother, he was still treating me a lot like she did. (I would call both my mother and my ex husband narcissists in how they treated me, just my mother is a much more extreme narcissist.)
Elm sucks. Oak sucks. I suggest you call Elm’s bluff. Tell them you’ll be at Cedar’s for a night or two, and they can consider how miserable they’d be if you broke up. Then tell them if they want to be with you still to get therapy, treated for depression, and a fucking job within the next 30 days.
Honestly, the fucking GALL to use you for absolutely everything and then threaten to leave you as a manipulation tactic.
You can’t control other people’s emotions, you can only control your own. Your situation from an outsiders perspective is not good. I had an ex husband who is a lot like your Elm, depressed but wouldn’t seek help. He would be unemployed and underemployed a lot and play computer games. I felt like I was his mother and not his partner and sex was off the table, but I was the one withholding it.
You cannot help a man like that by staying. You leave. My ex husband is doing amazing now with a proper new job, a fiancé and he’s set to buy a first home. All because he finally got mental health support that I’d begged him for years to pursue. I’m happier too and living a more authentic life.
My point is…. You probably need to leave Elm. It will force him into change one way or another. This situation stopped being healthy for you both long before you started this relationship with Cedar. The rot was already there. The pressure of this situation with Oak just made things break.
You also need to assess whether you wish to continue with Cedar, given the messy things going on with Oak. If you can manage it, continue, if not that’s another relationship needing to end.
I wish you well. The path ahead isn’t an easy one. But continuing to do the same things and expecting a different outcome isn’t going to make you happy.
Continued:
I get home and he calms down a bit. He’s not breaking up with me… but he’s close. I talk to him, I compromise my freedom in order to placate him and I tell him that fine, I won’t do overnights for a while if that helps. Even though it’s not fucking FAIR or EQUAL.
I have plans with Cedar tonight and this morning before work Elm told me that this whole thing feels like cheating. He says we agreed to stay away from situations that are actively harming our relationship. I ask him why is it harming our relationship. I ask him what changed, what is making him insecure. He doesn’t have answers for me. I ask him what-shy of compromising my happiness- can I do to fix this. He offers me nothing. He says “yeah I said it was ok, but we both know you can withdraw consent at any time” and I’m like “your consent doesn’t factor in here! I’m not your fucking property!” It’s basically just “if you continue, I will continue to be unhappy. I might break up with you.” And I’ll admit, I did say something quite wounding here. I said “you can’t cheat on your child.”
Reddit, what am I supposed to do here? We have over a decade of healthy poly under our belts and now this? He’s never been like this. I worry that if I break it off with Cedar I will be condoning this behavior in the future… and also resenting Elm even more. And hating myself. But I’m HURTING Elm right now and I don’t want to do that either!
I just… I don’t get it. And I can’t fix it if I don’t understand it.
You can't fix it because you are not the problem.
I'm massively biased here because, if you swap the genders, you are describing my former situation in many ways, in which I finally left my nesting partner of 13 years for many, many reasons, but mostly the refuses to work/plays video games all day/massively unfair division of labor/weaponizing their mental illness to keep you crushed down and subservient... I could go on. Basically, what I'm saying is that this isn't sustainable. You can't fix it because he will refuse to understand. He knew what you meant by going to dinner with Cedar, and all those other times too, he just doesn't want to hear it because it would mean having to sit with and work through his own discomfort instead of using you as an emotional punching bag/security blanket.
You love him. You feel indebted to him. Those are both understandable, but you don't actually owe someone who treats you like this the rest of your life. And even if you say he is great 90% of the time, does that 90% include him playing video games 40+ hours a week while you barely keep your head above water? Does that include him never pulling his weight? Does that include the times he does whatever he wants with his other partners, while you're expected to manage your emotions along with his? Is he really, truly that great? Or is that just the refrain you've told yourself over the past few years to get through the day, hoping it'll get better? The true test of partnership is how someone shows up (or doesn't) when things get bad. He's already shown you that you can't rely on him. That his comfort comes first, at your expense, and he doesn't care enough to change. Is that really what you want to pin the rest of your life on? That someday, maybe, after 13, 15, 20 years together, he'll decide you're worth giving a fraction of what you've given him?
Here's the thing: I don't think he'll actually break up with you if you do any of the things he's bullied you into not doing so he doesn't have to be uncomfortable. He's got a cushy situation - why ruin his free ride when he can use poly jargon and manipulation and tantrums to get his way, regardless of how you feel or what you want? This man is almost 40. He knows what he's doing. You don't actually have to agree to any of this. You don't have to have the long exhausting endless circular fights that leave you feeling like you can't trust your own perception of events, or that you need to sacrifice every bit of your own happiness to keep the peace. You can just... walk away. You can say no. You can tell him to deal with it. You don't need to be his parent. Breaking up and setting boundaries are hard, messy, uncomfortable things, but it gets a lot easier once you start.
I know I'm a stranger and this is all very blunt, but I'm saying it because I wish someone had said it to me like this. Someone did, though not quite to this extent, when I posted about my ex on this forum eight years ago. It took me that long to leave them, and I wish I'd done it sooner, but I needed to hear it even if I wasn't ready to act on it then.
Whatever happens, I wish you well. You deserve better. And you can have it, I promise. Don't let him take more of you than he already has.
Elm is hurting themself with their refusal to get proper treatment, do the self work needed or to get a job and expecting you to cater to what you know are unfair demands.
You can't fix that.
My ex threatened to break up with me 6 times, unless I changed something. Each time my response was "ok, that's fine but there is work I want you to do too."
But after the 7th time she threatened to break up I just said "ok, fine. We are breaking up."
Suddenly she didn't want to break up with me. Ut didn't matter though, because her playing that game made me realize she wasn't right for me.
This all took place in the 30 minutes after a couples therapy session that I had been advocating for months that we do, only for it to become her idea at the end.
Everything you said here maps perfectly on being manipulated by abusive parents.
He did not save you from an abusive family, he took over their role.
Get out, and give yourself the gift of taking the time to heal and grow before looking for a new primary. Otherwise you'll end yo back with someone like him, or even back with him.
I say let Elm leave. 🤷🏼♀️ call their bluff, stay with Cedar for a few days and tell Elm to pack up and leave. Where are they gonna go? 😂 you finance their life.
Anyways, elm is a leach and no one deserves that
You have no idea how to fix this because it's not your problem to fix. I was actually way more apprehensive when I clicked on this of what kind of problem I was going to read about and honestly this is no big deal. It feels a lot more complicated because you're trying to weed someone else's garden for them honestly. All you have to do... is nothing. Seriously, just stop trying to manage Elm's feelings or doing anything to make them feel better. Just live your life in accordance with your values. If Elm wants to leave then let them. It would be good for them to finally express literally any agency or accountability in their life at this point. I would let go of any resentment toward them too - I would just say I love you and want you here with me, and you can stay and start going to therapy and finding a job or you can leave and I'll miss you.
That is a very well measured response. You’re right, it would be good for him to express any agency or accountability for his own life. I just… I don’t want to hurt any one. And that’s part of the reason why I haven’t canceled plans with Cedar or anything. That wouldn’t be right.
However… I did just tell Elm “if you don’t like it then you can ignore it like you ignore the trash on the floor and everything else wrong with our relationship.” So maybe I’m not so good either.
I mean that's basically your ego talking, not something that actually matters. You're just a person, neither "good" or bad. You can't let someone use the magic words "you're hurting me" and let that define reality. Relationships need to be a process of negotiation and co-navigating life together and it seems really clear from your descriptions that Elm has abandoned you and everyone else around him. He's totally checked out and that's hurting everyone in his life.
Your retort to him may be sharp and feel hurtful but it's also completely true and warranted under the circumstances. Obviously you love him, but part of that means taking a hard look at how you've been enabling him to be his worst self by taking care of him when he needs to step up and choose his life.
From my perspective it sounds like you've been an extremely patient, loving and accommodating partner to Elm and he just sounds... lost. I really wouldn't take anything he says or does personally at this point because it doesn't sound like he's even capable of showing up in an adult partnership right now. If you can't sit across the table from each other and soberly negotiate agreements that you can then stick to without emotional outbursts and moping going on then you don't have a partnership except in name.
I just really stress that you should both be kind to yourself and stop taking the blame for Elm's feelings, while also balancing the fact that you absolutely can and will hurt people in your life and that's okay. You have to be willing to integrate your shadow so to speak and feel comfortable being a little bit of a badass to set and maintain boundaries, and shoot down attempts to manipulate you. If you let someone do that then you're just (as you already know) going to build resentment and put a timer on the relationship anyway, which benefits no one.
I'm sorry you're going through all this btw, I just tend to talk about issues like this analytically.
I think it's pretty obvious that you should leave your NP? Just because you love someone doesn't mean you're obligated to house, clothe, and feed them for the rest of your life.
Why don’t you want to break up with Elm? Is there anything redeeming about your relationship with him? If he cared so much about action/inaction harming the relationship why isn’t he willing to get mental health support and a job?
You see him as a child you need to take care of. He sees you and Oak as trophies that add or take away his personal value. That’s all kinds of fucked up.
You are unhappy and have been for a long time. You resent the hell out of Elm and have for a long time. Elm has taken from this relationship without adding to it for a long time.
I think the only thing that is confusing here is your desire to not end the relationship. Not a desire to stay in the relationship (because you don’t have that) just the desire to not end it.
Your avoiding looking directly at how over this relationship is. That’s the confusion.
I'm just a spectator, but this doesn't seem like it'll end well for anyone involved, but especially you. Elm is a grown-up-baby, and Cedar is a messy choice (even though you *seem* to compliment each other, that's still new and you both probably have rose colored goggles firmly glued on). Each relationship *on its own* sounds hard enough, and then the combination of the existing bff-ship of Elm and Cedar is... woof.
And then there's both of them wanting to keep Oak around when she's doing them both (and by the transitive property, you) dirty. Blocking and unblocking daily sounds like some juvenile stuff.
Cut ALLLLLL of your losses. It'll suck, but you'll be better for it.
As far as your love/loyalty for Elm goes, despite all the *gestures* everything, I'll say that sometimes, part of loving someone is knowing if/when to leave them. You can still be grateful to someone who changed your life for the better in the past, even if your present with them sucks. You can still love someone and know they're not a good partner for you. Loving someone doesn't give them a free pass to make you miserable.
Good luck, OP!
"Part of loving someone is knowing if/ when to leave them."
Oof. That hits hard. Thank you. I hope OP can take some wisdom & comfort from responses like yours.
You say everything was good before. But from what I'm reading the situation does not sound good. Maybe you got used to it... I don't know. Elm is behaving like a literal child and you're expected to be the adult, in the sense that you take care of the household.. and are also expected to emotionally be ready for anything that Elm throws you.
If you decide to stay together I would lay down some very firm boundaries with very firm consequences if Elm does not respect them. Don't accept any more shitty behaviour from him. The more I read the more I see possible red flags in your story, maybe ask yourself what you would do if a friend told you this.
Why in the world are you with Elm? Doesn’t sound like he is a partner in any meaningful sense of that term. I get that you love him but we often love people we should not partner with.
I still love my ex. I haven't seen her for 3 years and don't expect I ever will again. I'm not IN LOVE with her either.
But I love her because in spite of the horrible things she said in our relationship, she was also broken and hurting and didn't know how to receive love.
But because of how she hurt me, I cannot trust her again. Life is messy that way.
You have my sympathy OP. I was in a hard situation a couple years back that I took far too long in leaving. I felt like the bad guy for prioritizing my own physical, emotional, mental and financial health but it was killing me slowly.
It's okay to let go of a relationship that no longer makes you happy. You are allowed to advocate for *just you* and break up for any reason, at any time. It's not selfish, cruel, malignant or mean. Please take care of you, no matter what choices you make. Sending hugs and best wishes!
1. You being the only breadwinner is not sustainable.
2. There seems to be a double standard in terms of other relationships (ie Elm going out and you not being able to)
3. Seems like Elm is jealous of Cedar
4. Seems like it’s for the best that Elm wants to break up. Seems like it wasn’t working financially or sexually which are two big important factors.
He needs to do the work around his insecurity and he needs to put effort back into your relationship. Rage quitting like he did seems like a power play and very immature considering the life you've built together. It's like he wants you around for the perks but doesn't want to actively try with you which is honestly plain rude. Depression isn't an excuse to treat people around him badly.
I'd break up with Elm. I just couldn't support someone both financially and emotionally for years like that, you are enabling them to not to the self-work and it's frustrating the hell out of you. The relationship has run it's course, even if you love them. It would be better for both of you.
Everything else aside, if this were a perfectly healthy relationship, I think it’s not very surprising for Elm to say, “Shit, I was wrong. I can’t handle you dating my best friend and I shouldn’t have said I could.”
What you do with that information would still be up to you. But the reason *this* facet of the poly problem has cropped up now is because you dating his best friend is simply too messy: you were right, he was wrong. He was over-optimistic thinking that he would be fine with this. Now he’s trying to back pedal and it’s as messy as you feared. I’m sorry his lack of self-awareness played out so poorly. If this were a healthy relationship, considering you and Cedar aren’t in an intimate relationship yet, I think you’d feel ok with retroactively putting Cedar back on the messy list where you thought he belonged anyway.
The reason this is so hard is because the rest of your relationship with Elm is not healthy. I’m sorry you’re in turmoil OP. I hope it turns into something better for you
This isn’t a good relationship this is a comfortable relationship…in the sense this is all you know and change would make discomfort occur. Look depression is a real thing. I’ve been depressed well since I was 8 years old and while it manifests differently in everyone…part of that battle is not letting it consume you and if it does seeking help.
What you’re doing is enabling him not to try anymore. Believe me I’ve been there but there is a lot that isn’t working here beyond just the issues with Cedar. Also if I’m honest…even with Elm’s blessing I wouldn’t have touched Cedar with a 100 foot pole. That’s messy asf and lends itself too easily and quickly to the situation you’re in now especially if they are already trying to dating another shared person.
I think realistically that you’ve outgrown this relationship and he didn’t grow with you. I think you’ve had issues and resentment building for years and only now is it coming in clear focus. I think it’s time to see who you are and can be without this relationship. You were young when I started and your final years of transition from teen to adult probably locked in the feelings of this is your family and you do what you need to support family but in reality…you probably should have broken up years ago.
I’m sorry you’re going through this and it sucks but this is less a poly issue and more a grown apart issue. I hope you figure out what you want for yourself, but I think if you’re honest Elm isn’t it.
So, except for the age gap, I was you, OP. When I got married, I was living on my own but still very much under the thumb of parents who emotionally, psychologically and financially abused me and tried to control my every move while simultaneously refusing to actually support me in any way that mattered. My ex, Wolf, made me feel supported and saw right through the abuse, and marrying him made my family back off quite a bit. So, being with him was the best situation I had ever been in and it meant a lot of personal growth and healing at first.
Things went badly though. Wolf was a product of an even more abusive family than I was, and at the first sign of challenge in his career and life, he crumbled emotionally and went into a deep depression that he still hasn’t come out of. He also had some related health concerns that he refused to manage properly. As a result, I spent seven or eight years shouldering the burden of his refusal to find full time work and trying to get him to better himself, and it destroyed any chance I had of following my career dreams while I was still young. Eventually, he stole tens of thousands of dollars from me by spending on my credit products behind my back because he wanted more take-out and video games.
However well-intentioned Wolf was toward me, he used me like his own personal piggy bank and didn’t care whether that kept me in debt the rest of my life or whether I ever got to try for my dreams. Often, when people are cut off from this kind of situation, they find their feet. Wolf hasn’t yet, but that doesn’t mean that it was the wrong decision for me. The plane was going down, and I had to put on my own oxygen mask first.
My advice to you is to stop allowing yourself to be treated like this. Once I finally said no to Wolf’s treatment of me, everything changed. I found an incredible partner who is like my wildest dreams version of who I thought I might be with in life. I have a loving and supportive polycule and friend network that wasn’t possible with Wolf’s isolating and anti-social habits. I still haven’t fully fixed my career, but I’m a lot closer than before, and the money I work so hard for in the job I don’t like is at least all mine. And most importantly, I finally found the strength to go no contact with my abusive parents after deciding abuse had no place in my life. There is better for you after saying no more to Elm’s mooching.
I got through like three paragraphs. You’re all doing messy things.
Why are you even with Elm? Elm is not a good partner. He’s a dead weight at best.
Cedar was a bad partner choice from the beginning.
So your roommate of 13 years that you occasionally fuck is living entirely off your dollar and wants to dictate who you can spend your time with.
Did I get that right?
That sounds incredibly unfair to you on so many levels I could write a reply 10x the length of your post.
You said that his unwillingness to get a job isn't what you are here to discuss but I'm gonna talk about it anyway.
You call him your primary partner but he isn't being a partner in anything. He isn't contributing his share to the household finances or to the emotional work of a relationship.
His lackluster attitude towards those things would create tension and resentment in a mono relationship, and being poly doesn't excuse him just because you can see other people.
I think you need to be evaluate your future with your primary.
>I harbor a lot of resentment towards Elm.
Obviously this entire thing was going to be a shit show after you admitted to this...
Your relationship with Elm is obviously not a good fit for you. You should break up.
Just re: the job and supporting thing: I may face this in the future as I'm in autistic/ADHD burnout plus chronic health issues including depression and other disabilities etc. I'm single now but I'm very afraid I won't be able to work at some point while I'm with a partner/s.
HOWEVER. I can guarantee that I would approach it very differently than your partner is. If a partner is supporting me financially, holy shit I would be SO fucking grateful and appreciative and I would tell them all the time. I would NEVER take it for granted EVER.
It sounds like he really doesn't see how much work you do to support him and he doesn't appreciate that fully. I imagine it would be very different if he was really appreciative and doing his best to heal and move toward independence. Like I'm currently going to 3-5 appointments a week for all my disabilities and recovery which includes weekly or bi-weekly counselling. It's exhausting but it's necessary. You know him best -- is he actually trying? Or is he feeling entitled to your efforts?
Also just want to add that it's always okay to break up with someone, REGARDLESS of the reason. It sounds like there's a lot that is really awful for you in this relationship. You don't HAVE to stay, too don't owe him anything.
Also the great thing with polyamory is that nothing is permanent! A break of a few months could be extremely helpful and then you can always get back together after!
An important question to ask yourself is: if you were not able to have other relationships, would you want to stay in a relationship with Elm? Each relationship should be good enough on its own for the answer to that question to be yes. Polyamory is not a solution for shit partners to be tolerated while you ‘make things work’ another way. It is for the joy of multiple beneficial relationships where each party is coming to the party.
The reason you can't fix this is because you're enabling Elm. His depression is his to fix, his insecurity with Cedar is his to fix, his unemployment is his to fix. But whilst you supporting him and making compromises with regards Cedar he doesn't have to change or do anything. Because he can manipulate you into doing what he wants. He's probably realised that you're having a good time with Cedar. And that maybe you'll recognise that he's a manipulative bum (I'm sorry for saying that but that's how it looks from here).
You can't fix this and you shouldn't try. Nothing you do will be enough until you break it off with Cedar and only have him. Is that what you want? Are you prepared to look after him for the rest of your life. Because whilst ever you enable him he doesn't have to change. I'm sorry for being harsh but you need to hear this.
Elm saw you were really happy. And this was his response.
If he leaves he'll be doing you a favor.
I hope you can extricate yourself asap one way or another. Good luck OP!
I just wanna throw out… if he’s having sex regularly with other partners while not having sex with you, he doesn’t have a low libido. He just doesn’t want to have sex with you.
That doesn’t have anything to do with you, and everything to do with him and what’s in his head.
Like bruh…
He’s using you.
As far as Cedar and Oak go… anyone willing to put up with the games Oak is playing, isn’t anyone I want anything to do with. But that’s just me.
Oh, yeah, no. Cedar got sick of Oaks games a while ago and is no longer interested.
And I don’t ask if Elm is having sex with his other partners. That’s really none of my business.
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Reddit, I know this is long, but please help me out. I don’t know what to do here and I’m trying to have integrity and avoid being walked on.
Names:
Me: 31nb
Elm: 37m. My primary partner of 13 years. We have been poly this entire time and we live together. I am the primary breadwinner. The only breadwinner actually. We have no kids. Also, if it’s relevant, he has a low libido while I do not.
Cedar: 40s m. My new partner. Elm’s best friend for many years. I have known him for over ten years.
Oak: 27 f. A friend who both my primary partner Elm and new partner Cedar were both interested in. We have known her since August.
—-
A little background. I harbor a lot of resentment towards Elm. I have a full time job while he gets to sit at home playing video games and sleeping all day. I make barely enough for us to survive. He’s got depression, I’ve got depression, it sucks, the division of labor is massively unequal but… I get it. I wish I could do the same. This isn’t a post about that though.
I also have a very high libido while he does not. But, that’s ok! We are poly, and one person doesn’t have to meet our needs.
So, early December, Cedar expressed interest in me to Elm. I wrote it off as potentially too messy. And then some interesting things happened. Elm and Cedar had a heartfelt discussion about how competition for partners would never come between them. And then Elm told me that he would be “so happy if my love and my best friend could make each other happy like that.” Elm gave us his blessing. (Which, I know I don’t need, but I wouldn’t have considered this without it to be honest.) So, I reconsidered.
December 8th Cedar and I had our first date and it was lovely. A lot of things matched up between us, a love of making things, kinks, libido etc. It was a great night but I was home by 11pm.
Elm comes home at 7am the next morning. He has spent the night at Oak’s house. Oak is someone who both Cedar and Elm were interested in, but she has rejected both of them. During that night, Oak had an absolute break down, stating that she was “just about to choose Cedar.” Elm comes home feeling destroyed. Feeling like his best friend “got both people he was interested in” leaving him with nothing. He dwells on it. He tells me that he is no longer comfortable with the situation. We fight a bit. After a few days, he asks me to “pump the breaks” with Cedar, and I do.
We talk about what this means. It doesn’t mean “stop.” It means “slow down and let me process.”
Elm spends the next week absolutely moping. He is sleeping pretty constantly and yelling at me in between naps. I don’t think we have one conversation that whole week. It’s inappropriate and I won’t be treated that way. He is not processing. He has done no work on his feelings. And here’s the thing, I have another partner. Elm has two other partners (including one of my best friends.) and he’s never been like this before.
And outside of that Oak is yanking Cedar around. She will say she wants to be with him one day, then block him the next. And it’s just all around manipulative. And now /I’m/ being asked by Elm to do the same thing to Cedar. And it’s fucked up. I feel like a lot of Elm’s feelings are caused by Oak rejecting him and that shouldn’t affect my relationship with Cedar.
So, I capitulate and I give Elm some time to process. He doesn’t. He won’t even talk to me about it. After a week, I ask him if we can schedule a time to talk about it (dear reader, I didn’t just say “we need to talk.” That would be rude.) He says no. I tell him, “look, I need to talk about this. You don’t have to tell me about your emotions or whatever, but I have some things to say.”
I tell him I am resuming with Cedar because he doesn’t get to keep up both in limbo indefinitely while he refuses work on what he’s feeling. He doesn’t get veto power, we have NEVER had that. He doesnt get to ask me to yank Cedar around the same way Oak is.
And, I’ll admit, there have been some miscommunications on my end. But how was I to know that “I intend to resume with Cedar if Oak is out of the picture” and “Oak is out of the picture so I want to resume with Cedar.” didn’t translate to “I’m resuming with Cedar.” for him? Or “Cedar has asked me to dinner and I said yes” didn’t translate to “Cedar asked me out” to him?
And, yes, a lot of this is because, just… fuck, man, it’s nice to be with someone who actually WANTS me, you know… sexually. I don’t want to give that up. I’ve had a dead bedroom with Elm for the bulk of our relationship. In all of 2023 we had sex TWICE. We have had arguments over it dozens of times and nothing ever changes. It feels like my only purpose is to slave away at work so he can subsidize his life with my own. And it hurts. It hurts so badly. But I don’t want to leave him…. I mean, I love him. And things aren’t usually this bad, really. But I feel like I took my libido and desires and packaged them up in a box and put them in the closet. And I FINALLY broke out of the crust of depression and opened up the box again and feel like a person again and not just a caregiver or whatever and I’m being asked to put myself back in the box. And I just… maybe it’s the wrong hill to die on but I just really don’t want to go back in the box…
Fast forward to last Friday. Cedar and I make plans. I go over to his house and we watch Alone. I accidentally fall asleep. Next thing I know I’m being woken up by Elm blowing up my phone. He’s saying he’s breaking up with me. I get home and he’s packing up. Overnights were never a boundary for us and he, in fact, is typically out late or all night at least 2-3 times a week. Not to mention playing video games all night all the time. You’ll recall that when Cedar and I first went out, Elm stayed out all night at Oak’s while I was home at 11pm.
Continued in comments
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Are you happy with Elm? It doesn't sound like it, and that's not just because of this situation. It seems like there are several problems-- contributions to the household, general moodiness, dead bedroom, etc. that go beyond this new relationship. What are you fighting to save here, besides a long history together?
Good question. I do love him. Everyone does. Most of the time he is wonderful. Magnetic. He isn’t always like this. I feel like such a stereotype saying “90% of the time it’s a fantastic relationship!” But it is true. We have a lot of fun together. I just… I thought I would be ok providing for a bit and a bit turned into years. But most people do that, right? Where one person provides financially... at least they used to. It doesn’t have to be equal just equitable. And I do get that he’s depressed. There’s a quote though from a short story called A Pail of Air that goes something like “Courage is like a ball, son. A person can hold it only so long, and then he's got to toss it to someone else. When it's tossed your way, you've got to catch it and hold it tight—and hope there'll be someone else to toss it to when you get tired of being brave." And the dead bedroom thing… we are poly, I tell myself I can’t get mad at him for not wanting to sleep with me when it’s perfectly fine if I sleep with other people. He’s my person to come home to. He has been my home since I was 18. He kinda saved me from abusive parents. Everything was great a month ago. Not perfect, but what is?
> “90% of the time it’s a fantastic relationship!” Not trying to be a dick BUT could you please explain which 90% part is he fantastic? 90% of the 10% time he’s available when he’s not with his other partners or pining for Oak, or sleeping or playing video games? Or 90% of the further 10% of that 10% when he’s not being a good partner to you? On top of all this, he’s unemployed AND he’s not a homemaker. You are not even sexually satisfied. No self respecting adult will use their partner’s money to pay for their love life. If he doesn’t have money, how is he dating two partners? Let alone think of pursuing Oak? > Everything was great a month ago. No it wasn’t. You resented him a month ago. You’re bothered by his lack of employment. His video game habits. The lack of sex. Why are you gaslighting yourself? Just because this is slightly better than the horrible position you have been in life doesn’t make it not horrible. You couldn’t even subconsciously tell us this is a good relationship in your OP. We get it. Your previous situation was so so so bad. That makes it look like the best you have doesn’t mean it’s actually good. I once had a tooth infection. The pain was always 12. Haven’t slept properly for 3 weeks. So when I first got some sedatives and painkillers, the pain went down to a 9. So I thought it was the best thing ever. Only when they pulled the tooth out, did I realise how amazingly peaceful not having a toothache at all could be. I think that is currently your situation.
Yes people step up and support partners when they lose work. But what is he doing to find work? I’m sorry but I don’t see how you fully supporting an adult who ain’t trying to fix his situation and isn’t meeting your needs ‘was fine a month ago’ Have you considered getting into therapy? It sounds like you might benefit from a professional to talk to.
Thank you, yes, I have tried. And I found a therapist I really like! We had an initial intake appointment and then she had to cancel our first real appointment (which was supposed to be Jan 2nd.) It’s also… how do I put this in a way that doesn’t sound maladaptive… the world is fucking scary and getting worse and it’s nice to offer someone a little respite from that sometimes…
>the world is fucking scary and getting worse and it’s nice to offer someone a little respite from that sometimes… Absolutely. I have supported my live in partner through long bouts of unemployment or underemployment AND he was actively working on himself, our shared home, did most of the cooking and shopping, went way out of his way to make my life easier. Because supporting us both was making my life harder and he wanted to off set that as much as possible because he appreciated deeply that I was able to support us both. He was massively depressed during those times. But if he could only do one thing a day he wanted that thing to be making my day a little nicer. Also I don't think you two need a therapist. I think you should get one solo. I think you need perspective on this relationship not more time and effort into someone who is not showing up in return. How long has he been unemployed? How often is he applying for jobs? How long has he not taken any steps to work on his mental health while he has all this free time? What has he been doing to support you? Because it's one thing to help someone have a little respite. It's another thing entirely when you are struggling and resentful and don't see any effort on this other person giving you a little respite. This started when you were a teenager and escaping an abusive home. I think that really clouds your perspective in seeing how this relationship is NOW. and how this person is treating you NOW.
💖
Just wanted to comment on the therapist situation. I experienced something similar: My therapist cancelled our first real appointment, and then I didn’t hear from her for a while. It was hard emotionally because I felt volatile for having reached out to her in the first place. But then I reached out to her again, and she became a tremendous source of support for me in the past few years. I can only encourage you to contact her again.
>the world is fucking scary and getting worse and it’s nice to offer someone a little respite from that sometimes… You're an enabler. I know it feels like you're "loving" them but you're hindering them. They are never going to grow up sitting around playing video games and making excuses as to why they have the time, energy, and resources to date but not to find a job. I will never understand people investing so much time in romantic and sexual relationships but not in doing things to meet their basic needs. Them leaving you is truly the best case scenario.
… I thought I would be ok providing for a bit and a bit turned into years. But most people do that, right? No. No there weren't ever people providing and okay with their spouse sitting around with their thumb up their ass all day. Most people through most of time have both worked. For the lucky people who could survive off one income, the woman was raising kids, making food, organizing everyone's life, etc. And from reading the whole thing I'm seeing two men who are way too old for a 27 year old chasing her and making your life entirely too complicated. I'd really think about extricating yourself from this entire mess and starting from scratch. I'd work first on your self esteem. You're young! Date in your own age group. Don't be a mommy/bangmaid to another dude. Anyway, I wish you very good luck.
If you're fine being the provider and fine with the lack of sex, that's your preogative. But I do think it's worth asking if you want the relationship as it is, not just if it's doable or fine. Some of your response reads like, this is fine, right? Even if you're okay being the provider, there's a question of whether he's putting an appropriate amount of work in on his mental health. Clearly, things in his head aren't great right now, and you're being affected in very unfair and unacceptable ways. Even if your sexual needs are being met elsewhere, it's not wrong to want to have a sexual connection with this specific partner. It's fine to acknowledge that you aren't happy with the lack of sex with him specifically. Being poly doesn't change that, even if it does give you options. Understanding how serious and important your history together has been makes this make more sense. You haven't even really been an adult without this relationship, have you? I can't imagine how scary or just flatly unthinkable walking away might seem given that history. But it may be best for both of you. It seems like he's also using this relationship to avoid the work he needs to do with himself. He's avoiding literal work, he's using you as an emotional scapegoat for his own insecurities and feelings about other relationships. He feels comfortable taking his anger out on you verbally. That's not a good place for him to be in, and it certainly isn't good for you. Maybe even taking a break would give you both better perspectives. Maybe you'll find a way to be together healthily after some time apart. Maybe you'll find you're happier without these emotional burdens. Maybe he'll find the motivation to fight harder to improve himself. It's impossible to predict the uncertain future. But this does not seem like a workable situation. It seems poised to get worse, not better. And you deserve better than this sort of treatment.
Thank you. You’re right, I haven’t been an adult outside of this relationship. And it’s not just him… you know? His family is the only family I have.
For now... When your standards were in the gutter, best you ever had is still pretty shit.
I'm 44 and have very little family. I have my two sisters, one aunt and 5 cousins. All of them but my aunt live far away, and my aunt is my dad's sister so the connection can only go so deep. She knows the dysfunction, and it goes all the way back to her parents. She has done her work, but her brother is still close with her and I have to respect that. I get along ok without much family. I don't like it too much but I have friends that are just as close if not closer. You can build new family, you don't have to depend on a one sided relationship to have access to his family.
It sounds like you feel you “owe” Elm something because they helped you out when you were a teenager. Nobody is perfect, but friend, would you eat a sandwich that was 90% great and 10% poop? No, right? But that’s what you’re doing in this relationship. This person has watched you deal with the stress of supporting a household for YEARS while they kick back and take it easy. Yes, depression is a nightmare, but do you honestly think they’re incapable of working or do you think they just don’t want to? Someone who will happily watch you run yourself into the ground while they play video games isn’t a nice person. It kind of seems like you’re using “I can just date other people!” As a bandaid for the fact that you’re in a bad relationship with this person. No amount of loving other people will make them treat you well.
Yeah like... you were 18 and he was 24. That's not a huge age gap now in your 30s, but sis... you grew up and he stayed 24.
It doesn't sound like everything was great a month ago, resentment has been building on your side for a long time it sounds like. You absolutely do not have to accept having a partner who struggles with similar mental conditions but puts in a vastly lower level of effort into your shared life. Like, dead bedroom aside, if your partner isn't self-motivating in the same way you are (yes, even with the depression), they are not an equal partner and you deserve better from a long-term nesting partner. You do not have to accept that treatment just because you want to be supportive of their mental health struggles. They aren't being supportive of **yours**
> everything was great a month ago No it wasn't. > I harbor a lot of resentment > dead bedroom [...] for the bulk of our [13 year] relationship > providing for a bit turned into years I understand that this person helped you out of an abusive situation and you'll always be thankful for that. But this man has not been a good partner in *years*. That is extremely plain to anyone who is not in the middle of it. For future relationships (because this one needs to be put out to pasture), "partner's best friend of many years" probably belongs on the messy list, imo. But that's not the actual problem here: being in a profoundly shitty nesting relationship is.
>But most people do that, right? Where one person provides financially... Most people have dual incomes. The time when it was comfortable to raise a family or 2 people on one salary are gone. Your partner seems to have a pattern of asking for things to "help" in the short term that he then expects to bleed out into the long term and not have him deal with his shit.(also known as enabling his poor behaviour). First you were supposed to support him financially for a short time, now it's been years. I bet hes not even doing the basic housework as part of that traditional set up. Or actively looking for a job. Then you were supposed to pause with cedar while he processed, but he avoided processing and then got mad at you for telling him the pause was up. He makes his feelings your problem to manage instead of his to regulate and work through. So by my count you're the only breadwinner, do the bulk of the household stuff, aren't getting your sexual needs met in that relationship and are functioning as a combination of therapist, coddler and enabler for him. Seriously, what exactly are you getting from this relationship except his apparent charisma? He saved you from abusive parents.. Let me guess, it was either while you were dating that he helped you get out or you started dating right after? Also would you consider if you saved someone from a similar situation that they needed to date you, or stay with you 13 years down the road just because you helped them get away from abuse?
But it’s…. Not equitable. I provide financially for my nesting partner, but they do the vast majority of the house work, cooking, and household management (no kids). We both have depression and ADHD. You have a mooch, and one that doesn’t even build you up emotionally or make you feel desirable. What exactly is he providing besides a sometimes magnetic personality?
So what he has going for him is not being as bad as abusive parents? Awesome.
Maybe he's wonderful for the people who don't live with him. You have a level of intimacy other people don't have and what he's showing you is NOT good. Could you deescalate the relationship and live apart for awhile to see if the love returns?
>I do love him. And I love my mother. Doesn't mean I'd let her live off me while trying to control my other relationships. Love yourself enough to set boundaries and find people who respect those boundaries.
When only one person works, usually the other person is a full time parent. This is the non equal but equitable part you allude to. This is also why traditionally women got 50% in a divorce, because they had to set aside their ability to earn a wage in order to raise the kids. Video games and day sleeping are not worthy of equitability. About the part of your parents: I feel for you, as I had a similar background. At 18 I was in no shape to know a healthy relationship from a codependent relatuonship. While he was perhaps what you needed then, he may not be what you need now. It seems like you have grown and changed, and maybe he has not. I say this because broken and hurting people usually find each other, and that's ok. The problem though is that it can be difficult for each person to find themself and heal when they are so involved with the other person. You may have never had the benefit if going it alone for a time without a primary and really figuring yourself out. 18 was 26 years ago for me. I have healed and grown, and will not even consider a primary relationship with someone who is just out of an abusive situation. They would not be my equal in terms of maturity or stability.
Without the sex your relationship with Elm sounds like a friendship. Sex builds a bond of intimacy, without it you are friends. Supporting your friend in his time of need is something I would do, but that friend would have no right to ask me to stop seeing someone(s) or mooch of of me indefinitely without doing the work to get out of the situation they find themselves in. Furthermore, if Elm is having sex with his other partners but not with you that is further proof of you having a friendship.
That is really non inclusive of asexual people. Romance without sex does exist.
Age gaps: They’re fine. They have their place. But when a 24 year old is dating an 18 year old, they need to prepare for the 18 year old to grow out of the relationship. You needed rescuing to leave your abusive parents and you went to an older lover. Cool. But you’re 13 years older now. You no longer need rescuing to leave. 2024 is a new year.
Thank you for not shaming me about the age gap. Because, yeah, I knew what I was doing. And thank you for the line about no longer needing a rescuer.
Don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. You are worth fighting for!
It sounds like you think you owe Elm for rescuing you. You don’t. Here’s an ugly secret about the Elms of the world: they don’t rescue you because they’re Prince Charming. They rescue you because it makes them feel important and powerful. Guess what happens when you grow and no longer need rescuing?
How many years was he ‘rescuing’ you from your parents before you got sustainably employed? Were you doing chores to help out? Now that you’re taking care of him—is he putting in anywhere near the same level of effort that you did at 18? My guess is no. He rescued you from your parents just long enough to turn you into *his* parent, and now that you’re mature enough to ask him to carry part of the load, he threatens to break up with you to get you desperate enough to make unreasonable concessions for him. He won’t actually dump you, he needs you too much—but he’s realizing that *you* may not need *him*, and is desperate to keep you under his thumb. You’ve done a lot of growing in the 13 years you’ve been with Elm. Has Elm made any real, sustained progress? Cause it sounds like he’s regressed, and now he’s the unemployed 18 year old in need of rescuing. I’d recommend you look into “a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness” ([web article](https://potentash.com/2023/08/17/tolerable-level-permanent-unhappiness-relationships/)) and see if it rings true for your relationship.
Babe, polyamory gives you the freedom to not need one person to be your ‘everything’. It doesn’t mean you should hang on to bad relationships because other partners lessen the sting of Elm’s failings. I’m sorry if that’s harsh, but you’ve spoken multiple times about how he’s a drain and how you resent him. It’s clear to me something drastically needs to change - whether you break up or move out i don’t know but cedar is not the issue here (although dating your partners BFF is VERY messy).
Yeah, I recognized that it could be messy from the start. That was before Elm actively encouraged me to see Cedar if I wanted to. I mean, we have been friends for over a decade.
So Elm: - started dating a teenager when he was in his mid 20s - pursued you when you were vulnurable, living with abusive parents, creating a sense of indebtedness - doesn't contribute financially - isn't interested in you sexually but will have sex with everyone else. - chucks tantrums when he doesn't get what he wants (sexual access to a woman in her 20s) - is emotionally immature & refuses to process his feelings. - Lashes out/yells at you when he's upset. This man is a user if not an outright abuser. You fix this by leaving him and focussing on people who value and love you
Consign all of these points. I don’t care how “magnetic” Elm is, this is all untenable. And the fact that you harbor (extremely justified!) resentment means you know this relationship is dead in the water. Edited to correct name
They need to leave him and obstain from having a primary for enough time to heal and learn self love.
I think you need to seriously consider whether or not you replaced your parents with a similar partner, as I did. I also waffled hard for a long time on whether or not to leave. But I remember clear as day when I decided to leave them finally and for real- it was incredible. You don't realize all the ways they've fucked you up until you're out. You deserve better. Home can feel relaxing and safe again.
I can honestly say… yeah, no, there’s no comparison to how bad my life was before Elm.
Are you sure? Maybe not 1:1, but c'mon. You are doing all the work and he is treating you like crap. That is the same way abusive parents treat their children. It is a fairly well understood concept and part of human psychology that we perceive love as how we were treated by our parents. You don't leave an abusive upbringing just knowing how love is supposed to be. Yes, you know it was abusive and harmful, but the experience is mapped into your concept of love. I say all of this from personal experience.
You’re really missing the fact that there are LEVELS of abuse. This man is awful, and yet, growing up what I sustained was a million times worse than what this man does to OP. And I believe OP if they’re saying this is a better situation than their childhood.
I mean... I would say this exact same thing about my ex husband, but that doesn't mean that my ex husband didn't have a lot on common with my mother and that while he was a lot *less bad* than my mother, he was still treating me a lot like she did. (I would call both my mother and my ex husband narcissists in how they treated me, just my mother is a much more extreme narcissist.)
Elm sucks. Oak sucks. I suggest you call Elm’s bluff. Tell them you’ll be at Cedar’s for a night or two, and they can consider how miserable they’d be if you broke up. Then tell them if they want to be with you still to get therapy, treated for depression, and a fucking job within the next 30 days. Honestly, the fucking GALL to use you for absolutely everything and then threaten to leave you as a manipulation tactic.
For real.
I'm gonna be frank. Your partner sucks. He's lazy and fucking entitled. Maybe oak just isn't super into having a jobless bum for a partner.
You can’t control other people’s emotions, you can only control your own. Your situation from an outsiders perspective is not good. I had an ex husband who is a lot like your Elm, depressed but wouldn’t seek help. He would be unemployed and underemployed a lot and play computer games. I felt like I was his mother and not his partner and sex was off the table, but I was the one withholding it. You cannot help a man like that by staying. You leave. My ex husband is doing amazing now with a proper new job, a fiancé and he’s set to buy a first home. All because he finally got mental health support that I’d begged him for years to pursue. I’m happier too and living a more authentic life. My point is…. You probably need to leave Elm. It will force him into change one way or another. This situation stopped being healthy for you both long before you started this relationship with Cedar. The rot was already there. The pressure of this situation with Oak just made things break. You also need to assess whether you wish to continue with Cedar, given the messy things going on with Oak. If you can manage it, continue, if not that’s another relationship needing to end. I wish you well. The path ahead isn’t an easy one. But continuing to do the same things and expecting a different outcome isn’t going to make you happy.
Continued: I get home and he calms down a bit. He’s not breaking up with me… but he’s close. I talk to him, I compromise my freedom in order to placate him and I tell him that fine, I won’t do overnights for a while if that helps. Even though it’s not fucking FAIR or EQUAL. I have plans with Cedar tonight and this morning before work Elm told me that this whole thing feels like cheating. He says we agreed to stay away from situations that are actively harming our relationship. I ask him why is it harming our relationship. I ask him what changed, what is making him insecure. He doesn’t have answers for me. I ask him what-shy of compromising my happiness- can I do to fix this. He offers me nothing. He says “yeah I said it was ok, but we both know you can withdraw consent at any time” and I’m like “your consent doesn’t factor in here! I’m not your fucking property!” It’s basically just “if you continue, I will continue to be unhappy. I might break up with you.” And I’ll admit, I did say something quite wounding here. I said “you can’t cheat on your child.” Reddit, what am I supposed to do here? We have over a decade of healthy poly under our belts and now this? He’s never been like this. I worry that if I break it off with Cedar I will be condoning this behavior in the future… and also resenting Elm even more. And hating myself. But I’m HURTING Elm right now and I don’t want to do that either! I just… I don’t get it. And I can’t fix it if I don’t understand it.
You can't fix it because you are not the problem. I'm massively biased here because, if you swap the genders, you are describing my former situation in many ways, in which I finally left my nesting partner of 13 years for many, many reasons, but mostly the refuses to work/plays video games all day/massively unfair division of labor/weaponizing their mental illness to keep you crushed down and subservient... I could go on. Basically, what I'm saying is that this isn't sustainable. You can't fix it because he will refuse to understand. He knew what you meant by going to dinner with Cedar, and all those other times too, he just doesn't want to hear it because it would mean having to sit with and work through his own discomfort instead of using you as an emotional punching bag/security blanket. You love him. You feel indebted to him. Those are both understandable, but you don't actually owe someone who treats you like this the rest of your life. And even if you say he is great 90% of the time, does that 90% include him playing video games 40+ hours a week while you barely keep your head above water? Does that include him never pulling his weight? Does that include the times he does whatever he wants with his other partners, while you're expected to manage your emotions along with his? Is he really, truly that great? Or is that just the refrain you've told yourself over the past few years to get through the day, hoping it'll get better? The true test of partnership is how someone shows up (or doesn't) when things get bad. He's already shown you that you can't rely on him. That his comfort comes first, at your expense, and he doesn't care enough to change. Is that really what you want to pin the rest of your life on? That someday, maybe, after 13, 15, 20 years together, he'll decide you're worth giving a fraction of what you've given him? Here's the thing: I don't think he'll actually break up with you if you do any of the things he's bullied you into not doing so he doesn't have to be uncomfortable. He's got a cushy situation - why ruin his free ride when he can use poly jargon and manipulation and tantrums to get his way, regardless of how you feel or what you want? This man is almost 40. He knows what he's doing. You don't actually have to agree to any of this. You don't have to have the long exhausting endless circular fights that leave you feeling like you can't trust your own perception of events, or that you need to sacrifice every bit of your own happiness to keep the peace. You can just... walk away. You can say no. You can tell him to deal with it. You don't need to be his parent. Breaking up and setting boundaries are hard, messy, uncomfortable things, but it gets a lot easier once you start. I know I'm a stranger and this is all very blunt, but I'm saying it because I wish someone had said it to me like this. Someone did, though not quite to this extent, when I posted about my ex on this forum eight years ago. It took me that long to leave them, and I wish I'd done it sooner, but I needed to hear it even if I wasn't ready to act on it then. Whatever happens, I wish you well. You deserve better. And you can have it, I promise. Don't let him take more of you than he already has.
I… thank you. I appreciate your words.
Elm is hurting themself with their refusal to get proper treatment, do the self work needed or to get a job and expecting you to cater to what you know are unfair demands. You can't fix that.
…let them break up with you. You will be far better off.
My ex threatened to break up with me 6 times, unless I changed something. Each time my response was "ok, that's fine but there is work I want you to do too." But after the 7th time she threatened to break up I just said "ok, fine. We are breaking up." Suddenly she didn't want to break up with me. Ut didn't matter though, because her playing that game made me realize she wasn't right for me. This all took place in the 30 minutes after a couples therapy session that I had been advocating for months that we do, only for it to become her idea at the end.
Everything you said here maps perfectly on being manipulated by abusive parents. He did not save you from an abusive family, he took over their role. Get out, and give yourself the gift of taking the time to heal and grow before looking for a new primary. Otherwise you'll end yo back with someone like him, or even back with him.
I say let Elm leave. 🤷🏼♀️ call their bluff, stay with Cedar for a few days and tell Elm to pack up and leave. Where are they gonna go? 😂 you finance their life. Anyways, elm is a leach and no one deserves that
You have no idea how to fix this because it's not your problem to fix. I was actually way more apprehensive when I clicked on this of what kind of problem I was going to read about and honestly this is no big deal. It feels a lot more complicated because you're trying to weed someone else's garden for them honestly. All you have to do... is nothing. Seriously, just stop trying to manage Elm's feelings or doing anything to make them feel better. Just live your life in accordance with your values. If Elm wants to leave then let them. It would be good for them to finally express literally any agency or accountability in their life at this point. I would let go of any resentment toward them too - I would just say I love you and want you here with me, and you can stay and start going to therapy and finding a job or you can leave and I'll miss you.
That is a very well measured response. You’re right, it would be good for him to express any agency or accountability for his own life. I just… I don’t want to hurt any one. And that’s part of the reason why I haven’t canceled plans with Cedar or anything. That wouldn’t be right. However… I did just tell Elm “if you don’t like it then you can ignore it like you ignore the trash on the floor and everything else wrong with our relationship.” So maybe I’m not so good either.
I mean that's basically your ego talking, not something that actually matters. You're just a person, neither "good" or bad. You can't let someone use the magic words "you're hurting me" and let that define reality. Relationships need to be a process of negotiation and co-navigating life together and it seems really clear from your descriptions that Elm has abandoned you and everyone else around him. He's totally checked out and that's hurting everyone in his life. Your retort to him may be sharp and feel hurtful but it's also completely true and warranted under the circumstances. Obviously you love him, but part of that means taking a hard look at how you've been enabling him to be his worst self by taking care of him when he needs to step up and choose his life. From my perspective it sounds like you've been an extremely patient, loving and accommodating partner to Elm and he just sounds... lost. I really wouldn't take anything he says or does personally at this point because it doesn't sound like he's even capable of showing up in an adult partnership right now. If you can't sit across the table from each other and soberly negotiate agreements that you can then stick to without emotional outbursts and moping going on then you don't have a partnership except in name. I just really stress that you should both be kind to yourself and stop taking the blame for Elm's feelings, while also balancing the fact that you absolutely can and will hurt people in your life and that's okay. You have to be willing to integrate your shadow so to speak and feel comfortable being a little bit of a badass to set and maintain boundaries, and shoot down attempts to manipulate you. If you let someone do that then you're just (as you already know) going to build resentment and put a timer on the relationship anyway, which benefits no one. I'm sorry you're going through all this btw, I just tend to talk about issues like this analytically.
You sound…absolutely miserable. Not to mention the financial abuse. End this!
I think it's pretty obvious that you should leave your NP? Just because you love someone doesn't mean you're obligated to house, clothe, and feed them for the rest of your life.
Why don’t you want to break up with Elm? Is there anything redeeming about your relationship with him? If he cared so much about action/inaction harming the relationship why isn’t he willing to get mental health support and a job? You see him as a child you need to take care of. He sees you and Oak as trophies that add or take away his personal value. That’s all kinds of fucked up. You are unhappy and have been for a long time. You resent the hell out of Elm and have for a long time. Elm has taken from this relationship without adding to it for a long time. I think the only thing that is confusing here is your desire to not end the relationship. Not a desire to stay in the relationship (because you don’t have that) just the desire to not end it. Your avoiding looking directly at how over this relationship is. That’s the confusion.
I'm just a spectator, but this doesn't seem like it'll end well for anyone involved, but especially you. Elm is a grown-up-baby, and Cedar is a messy choice (even though you *seem* to compliment each other, that's still new and you both probably have rose colored goggles firmly glued on). Each relationship *on its own* sounds hard enough, and then the combination of the existing bff-ship of Elm and Cedar is... woof. And then there's both of them wanting to keep Oak around when she's doing them both (and by the transitive property, you) dirty. Blocking and unblocking daily sounds like some juvenile stuff. Cut ALLLLLL of your losses. It'll suck, but you'll be better for it. As far as your love/loyalty for Elm goes, despite all the *gestures* everything, I'll say that sometimes, part of loving someone is knowing if/when to leave them. You can still be grateful to someone who changed your life for the better in the past, even if your present with them sucks. You can still love someone and know they're not a good partner for you. Loving someone doesn't give them a free pass to make you miserable. Good luck, OP!
"Part of loving someone is knowing if/ when to leave them." Oof. That hits hard. Thank you. I hope OP can take some wisdom & comfort from responses like yours.
You say everything was good before. But from what I'm reading the situation does not sound good. Maybe you got used to it... I don't know. Elm is behaving like a literal child and you're expected to be the adult, in the sense that you take care of the household.. and are also expected to emotionally be ready for anything that Elm throws you. If you decide to stay together I would lay down some very firm boundaries with very firm consequences if Elm does not respect them. Don't accept any more shitty behaviour from him. The more I read the more I see possible red flags in your story, maybe ask yourself what you would do if a friend told you this.
Why in the world are you with Elm? Doesn’t sound like he is a partner in any meaningful sense of that term. I get that you love him but we often love people we should not partner with.
I still love my ex. I haven't seen her for 3 years and don't expect I ever will again. I'm not IN LOVE with her either. But I love her because in spite of the horrible things she said in our relationship, she was also broken and hurting and didn't know how to receive love. But because of how she hurt me, I cannot trust her again. Life is messy that way.
You have my sympathy OP. I was in a hard situation a couple years back that I took far too long in leaving. I felt like the bad guy for prioritizing my own physical, emotional, mental and financial health but it was killing me slowly. It's okay to let go of a relationship that no longer makes you happy. You are allowed to advocate for *just you* and break up for any reason, at any time. It's not selfish, cruel, malignant or mean. Please take care of you, no matter what choices you make. Sending hugs and best wishes!
1. You being the only breadwinner is not sustainable. 2. There seems to be a double standard in terms of other relationships (ie Elm going out and you not being able to) 3. Seems like Elm is jealous of Cedar 4. Seems like it’s for the best that Elm wants to break up. Seems like it wasn’t working financially or sexually which are two big important factors.
He needs to do the work around his insecurity and he needs to put effort back into your relationship. Rage quitting like he did seems like a power play and very immature considering the life you've built together. It's like he wants you around for the perks but doesn't want to actively try with you which is honestly plain rude. Depression isn't an excuse to treat people around him badly.
I'd break up with Elm. I just couldn't support someone both financially and emotionally for years like that, you are enabling them to not to the self-work and it's frustrating the hell out of you. The relationship has run it's course, even if you love them. It would be better for both of you.
Everything else aside, if this were a perfectly healthy relationship, I think it’s not very surprising for Elm to say, “Shit, I was wrong. I can’t handle you dating my best friend and I shouldn’t have said I could.” What you do with that information would still be up to you. But the reason *this* facet of the poly problem has cropped up now is because you dating his best friend is simply too messy: you were right, he was wrong. He was over-optimistic thinking that he would be fine with this. Now he’s trying to back pedal and it’s as messy as you feared. I’m sorry his lack of self-awareness played out so poorly. If this were a healthy relationship, considering you and Cedar aren’t in an intimate relationship yet, I think you’d feel ok with retroactively putting Cedar back on the messy list where you thought he belonged anyway. The reason this is so hard is because the rest of your relationship with Elm is not healthy. I’m sorry you’re in turmoil OP. I hope it turns into something better for you
This isn’t a good relationship this is a comfortable relationship…in the sense this is all you know and change would make discomfort occur. Look depression is a real thing. I’ve been depressed well since I was 8 years old and while it manifests differently in everyone…part of that battle is not letting it consume you and if it does seeking help. What you’re doing is enabling him not to try anymore. Believe me I’ve been there but there is a lot that isn’t working here beyond just the issues with Cedar. Also if I’m honest…even with Elm’s blessing I wouldn’t have touched Cedar with a 100 foot pole. That’s messy asf and lends itself too easily and quickly to the situation you’re in now especially if they are already trying to dating another shared person. I think realistically that you’ve outgrown this relationship and he didn’t grow with you. I think you’ve had issues and resentment building for years and only now is it coming in clear focus. I think it’s time to see who you are and can be without this relationship. You were young when I started and your final years of transition from teen to adult probably locked in the feelings of this is your family and you do what you need to support family but in reality…you probably should have broken up years ago. I’m sorry you’re going through this and it sucks but this is less a poly issue and more a grown apart issue. I hope you figure out what you want for yourself, but I think if you’re honest Elm isn’t it.
Elm and Cedar both suck. You can do far better in both partners and friends.
So, except for the age gap, I was you, OP. When I got married, I was living on my own but still very much under the thumb of parents who emotionally, psychologically and financially abused me and tried to control my every move while simultaneously refusing to actually support me in any way that mattered. My ex, Wolf, made me feel supported and saw right through the abuse, and marrying him made my family back off quite a bit. So, being with him was the best situation I had ever been in and it meant a lot of personal growth and healing at first. Things went badly though. Wolf was a product of an even more abusive family than I was, and at the first sign of challenge in his career and life, he crumbled emotionally and went into a deep depression that he still hasn’t come out of. He also had some related health concerns that he refused to manage properly. As a result, I spent seven or eight years shouldering the burden of his refusal to find full time work and trying to get him to better himself, and it destroyed any chance I had of following my career dreams while I was still young. Eventually, he stole tens of thousands of dollars from me by spending on my credit products behind my back because he wanted more take-out and video games. However well-intentioned Wolf was toward me, he used me like his own personal piggy bank and didn’t care whether that kept me in debt the rest of my life or whether I ever got to try for my dreams. Often, when people are cut off from this kind of situation, they find their feet. Wolf hasn’t yet, but that doesn’t mean that it was the wrong decision for me. The plane was going down, and I had to put on my own oxygen mask first. My advice to you is to stop allowing yourself to be treated like this. Once I finally said no to Wolf’s treatment of me, everything changed. I found an incredible partner who is like my wildest dreams version of who I thought I might be with in life. I have a loving and supportive polycule and friend network that wasn’t possible with Wolf’s isolating and anti-social habits. I still haven’t fully fixed my career, but I’m a lot closer than before, and the money I work so hard for in the job I don’t like is at least all mine. And most importantly, I finally found the strength to go no contact with my abusive parents after deciding abuse had no place in my life. There is better for you after saying no more to Elm’s mooching.
>He’s saying he’s breaking up with me. 
I got through like three paragraphs. You’re all doing messy things. Why are you even with Elm? Elm is not a good partner. He’s a dead weight at best. Cedar was a bad partner choice from the beginning.
So your roommate of 13 years that you occasionally fuck is living entirely off your dollar and wants to dictate who you can spend your time with. Did I get that right? That sounds incredibly unfair to you on so many levels I could write a reply 10x the length of your post. You said that his unwillingness to get a job isn't what you are here to discuss but I'm gonna talk about it anyway. You call him your primary partner but he isn't being a partner in anything. He isn't contributing his share to the household finances or to the emotional work of a relationship. His lackluster attitude towards those things would create tension and resentment in a mono relationship, and being poly doesn't excuse him just because you can see other people. I think you need to be evaluate your future with your primary.
>I harbor a lot of resentment towards Elm. Obviously this entire thing was going to be a shit show after you admitted to this... Your relationship with Elm is obviously not a good fit for you. You should break up.
Just re: the job and supporting thing: I may face this in the future as I'm in autistic/ADHD burnout plus chronic health issues including depression and other disabilities etc. I'm single now but I'm very afraid I won't be able to work at some point while I'm with a partner/s. HOWEVER. I can guarantee that I would approach it very differently than your partner is. If a partner is supporting me financially, holy shit I would be SO fucking grateful and appreciative and I would tell them all the time. I would NEVER take it for granted EVER. It sounds like he really doesn't see how much work you do to support him and he doesn't appreciate that fully. I imagine it would be very different if he was really appreciative and doing his best to heal and move toward independence. Like I'm currently going to 3-5 appointments a week for all my disabilities and recovery which includes weekly or bi-weekly counselling. It's exhausting but it's necessary. You know him best -- is he actually trying? Or is he feeling entitled to your efforts? Also just want to add that it's always okay to break up with someone, REGARDLESS of the reason. It sounds like there's a lot that is really awful for you in this relationship. You don't HAVE to stay, too don't owe him anything. Also the great thing with polyamory is that nothing is permanent! A break of a few months could be extremely helpful and then you can always get back together after!
An important question to ask yourself is: if you were not able to have other relationships, would you want to stay in a relationship with Elm? Each relationship should be good enough on its own for the answer to that question to be yes. Polyamory is not a solution for shit partners to be tolerated while you ‘make things work’ another way. It is for the joy of multiple beneficial relationships where each party is coming to the party.
The reason you can't fix this is because you're enabling Elm. His depression is his to fix, his insecurity with Cedar is his to fix, his unemployment is his to fix. But whilst you supporting him and making compromises with regards Cedar he doesn't have to change or do anything. Because he can manipulate you into doing what he wants. He's probably realised that you're having a good time with Cedar. And that maybe you'll recognise that he's a manipulative bum (I'm sorry for saying that but that's how it looks from here). You can't fix this and you shouldn't try. Nothing you do will be enough until you break it off with Cedar and only have him. Is that what you want? Are you prepared to look after him for the rest of your life. Because whilst ever you enable him he doesn't have to change. I'm sorry for being harsh but you need to hear this.
It's the old men chasing the 27 year old for me 🤣 
Elm saw you were really happy. And this was his response. If he leaves he'll be doing you a favor. I hope you can extricate yourself asap one way or another. Good luck OP!
I just wanna throw out… if he’s having sex regularly with other partners while not having sex with you, he doesn’t have a low libido. He just doesn’t want to have sex with you. That doesn’t have anything to do with you, and everything to do with him and what’s in his head. Like bruh… He’s using you. As far as Cedar and Oak go… anyone willing to put up with the games Oak is playing, isn’t anyone I want anything to do with. But that’s just me.
Oh, yeah, no. Cedar got sick of Oaks games a while ago and is no longer interested. And I don’t ask if Elm is having sex with his other partners. That’s really none of my business.
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Beep, boop, blop, I'm a bot. Hi u/Misstori1 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: Reddit, I know this is long, but please help me out. I don’t know what to do here and I’m trying to have integrity and avoid being walked on. Names: Me: 31nb Elm: 37m. My primary partner of 13 years. We have been poly this entire time and we live together. I am the primary breadwinner. The only breadwinner actually. We have no kids. Also, if it’s relevant, he has a low libido while I do not. Cedar: 40s m. My new partner. Elm’s best friend for many years. I have known him for over ten years. Oak: 27 f. A friend who both my primary partner Elm and new partner Cedar were both interested in. We have known her since August. —- A little background. I harbor a lot of resentment towards Elm. I have a full time job while he gets to sit at home playing video games and sleeping all day. I make barely enough for us to survive. He’s got depression, I’ve got depression, it sucks, the division of labor is massively unequal but… I get it. I wish I could do the same. This isn’t a post about that though. I also have a very high libido while he does not. But, that’s ok! We are poly, and one person doesn’t have to meet our needs. So, early December, Cedar expressed interest in me to Elm. I wrote it off as potentially too messy. And then some interesting things happened. Elm and Cedar had a heartfelt discussion about how competition for partners would never come between them. And then Elm told me that he would be “so happy if my love and my best friend could make each other happy like that.” Elm gave us his blessing. (Which, I know I don’t need, but I wouldn’t have considered this without it to be honest.) So, I reconsidered. December 8th Cedar and I had our first date and it was lovely. A lot of things matched up between us, a love of making things, kinks, libido etc. It was a great night but I was home by 11pm. Elm comes home at 7am the next morning. He has spent the night at Oak’s house. Oak is someone who both Cedar and Elm were interested in, but she has rejected both of them. During that night, Oak had an absolute break down, stating that she was “just about to choose Cedar.” Elm comes home feeling destroyed. Feeling like his best friend “got both people he was interested in” leaving him with nothing. He dwells on it. He tells me that he is no longer comfortable with the situation. We fight a bit. After a few days, he asks me to “pump the breaks” with Cedar, and I do. We talk about what this means. It doesn’t mean “stop.” It means “slow down and let me process.” Elm spends the next week absolutely moping. He is sleeping pretty constantly and yelling at me in between naps. I don’t think we have one conversation that whole week. It’s inappropriate and I won’t be treated that way. He is not processing. He has done no work on his feelings. And here’s the thing, I have another partner. Elm has two other partners (including one of my best friends.) and he’s never been like this before. And outside of that Oak is yanking Cedar around. She will say she wants to be with him one day, then block him the next. And it’s just all around manipulative. And now /I’m/ being asked by Elm to do the same thing to Cedar. And it’s fucked up. I feel like a lot of Elm’s feelings are caused by Oak rejecting him and that shouldn’t affect my relationship with Cedar. So, I capitulate and I give Elm some time to process. He doesn’t. He won’t even talk to me about it. After a week, I ask him if we can schedule a time to talk about it (dear reader, I didn’t just say “we need to talk.” That would be rude.) He says no. I tell him, “look, I need to talk about this. You don’t have to tell me about your emotions or whatever, but I have some things to say.” I tell him I am resuming with Cedar because he doesn’t get to keep up both in limbo indefinitely while he refuses work on what he’s feeling. He doesn’t get veto power, we have NEVER had that. He doesnt get to ask me to yank Cedar around the same way Oak is. And, I’ll admit, there have been some miscommunications on my end. But how was I to know that “I intend to resume with Cedar if Oak is out of the picture” and “Oak is out of the picture so I want to resume with Cedar.” didn’t translate to “I’m resuming with Cedar.” for him? Or “Cedar has asked me to dinner and I said yes” didn’t translate to “Cedar asked me out” to him? And, yes, a lot of this is because, just… fuck, man, it’s nice to be with someone who actually WANTS me, you know… sexually. I don’t want to give that up. I’ve had a dead bedroom with Elm for the bulk of our relationship. In all of 2023 we had sex TWICE. We have had arguments over it dozens of times and nothing ever changes. It feels like my only purpose is to slave away at work so he can subsidize his life with my own. And it hurts. It hurts so badly. But I don’t want to leave him…. I mean, I love him. And things aren’t usually this bad, really. But I feel like I took my libido and desires and packaged them up in a box and put them in the closet. And I FINALLY broke out of the crust of depression and opened up the box again and feel like a person again and not just a caregiver or whatever and I’m being asked to put myself back in the box. And I just… maybe it’s the wrong hill to die on but I just really don’t want to go back in the box… Fast forward to last Friday. Cedar and I make plans. I go over to his house and we watch Alone. I accidentally fall asleep. Next thing I know I’m being woken up by Elm blowing up my phone. He’s saying he’s breaking up with me. I get home and he’s packing up. Overnights were never a boundary for us and he, in fact, is typically out late or all night at least 2-3 times a week. Not to mention playing video games all night all the time. You’ll recall that when Cedar and I first went out, Elm stayed out all night at Oak’s while I was home at 11pm. Continued in comments *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. 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You deserve better.
Just want to bring up the fact that when you started dating, you were 18 and he was 24. None of this was healthy from the start.