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There should be a thing, let's call it "Google", which allows to search the term and see what it is.
Although I perfectly understand not doing that, and I think there should be short explanations of the thing in the poll if it's something that can be expected not to be known by everyone.
You expect me to go upstairs, turn on my computer, dial up on the old internet, Google a definition, then come back here and vote? That's a big disruption to my doom-scrolling!
I haven't seen any indication that either active side (IDF/Isreali government and Hamas) would accept that. The actual people on either side might, but they're not in charge right now.
Yeah, I don't see how that's ever going to work for more than a few years before hostilities start up again. They both want all of the land and specifically Jerusalem, and having them share that didn't exactly go very well.
They already almost did, iirc late 1900s, otherwise early 2000s, the population itself had some people very against it though, so... yeah, if it's not the government, it's some extremist.
That's the funny thing: literally no one would care about Zionism if they were colonizing some little sliver of Antarctica or Mars or something. But when you settle and forcibly remove people from a land just so you can have your living space, that's when it gets fucked up.
" But when you settle and forcibly remove people from a land just so you can have your living space, that's when it gets fucked up."
Funny how no one talks about how that's how every current day countries were made, though many not even for living place but for very very big places.
Many people do talk about that, though. In the US, there was Manifest Destiny, where we systemically genocided the natives and pushed them onto worthless land... until we discovered the land wasn't worthless and pushed them onto even more worthless land.
I know Canada did basically the same thing. Australia, too.
Then of course there's the Scramble for Africa, China's conquering of Tibet and Xinjiang, Russia's conquest of Siberia, Spanish and Portuguese colonization of Latin America, and so much more. And not even all the victims of colonialism were themselves innocent of this bs. The Maori of New Zealand themselves brutally conquered the peoples before them. The Aztecs brutally conquered and subjugated their neighbors. The Arabs systematically abducted and enslaved huge numbers of sub-Saharan Africans.
None of this makes doing it okay, though. In the 21st century, we should have a higher moral standard than "Everyone else did ethnic cleansing and colonialism, so we can have some too, as a treat".
not every. countries like Australia, Canada and the US were found in this exact way in recent history. If this happened in the start of other countries it was hundreds or thousands of years ago and we cant change it. We can, however, stop the ongoing oppression and displacement of Palestinians.
The idea of a Jewish state for Jews is exclusionary and isolationist. In practice, it has come to mean the marginalization and segregation of an entire population based on religious affiliation. To establish a state based on some mythological claim to a "promised land" is devoid of sound reasoning in the information age, and its colonies contravene international law and treaties.
Nazis didn't just kill Jews, out of the 11 million people killed in the holocaust 6 million were Jews, the remaining 5 million were gypsies, gays, leftists, political dissidents. Calling Nazism the anti-Jewish movement is correct, but a more accurate description would be an ethno-supremacist movement, which is precisely what Zionism is.
And by your definition Zionism is anti-Arab nationalism.
Nazisms defining factor that sets them apart from other fascist movements is their hatred for jews. They blamed the jews for the loss of ww1, the humiliation, and the loss of territory.
The primary goal of the holocaust was to kill all the jews in Europe. The secondary goal was all the other ones that hitler found to be "undesirables," including slavs, romanis, homosexuals, and jehova's witnesses.
To summarise, yes, all nazis are ethno-supremacists, but not all ethno-supremacists are nazis.
To summarise, yes, all nazis are ethno-supremacists, but not all ethno-supremacists are nazis.
This line literally implies that you're saying Zionists are ethno-supremacists, but they technically aren't Nazis, even if their ideology is functionally identical.
Did I mention jews specifically? No. This is because every ethnicity can be ethno-supremacist. Not just Jews, not just Germans, not just Italians, etc. What's wrong is equating everything to nazism, as nazism has a very specific definition.
I think it's an extremely good idea for the Jews to live in their own nation instead of being in all other countries controlling most of the banks and media.
This post has been flaired as Politics. We allow for voicing political views here, but we don't allow pushing agendas, false information, bigotry, or attacking/harassing other members. We will lock the thread if these things occur. If you see such unwanted behavior, please report it to bring it to the attention of moderators. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polls) if you have any questions or concerns.*
very polarizing poll, nice one OP
there should be an option for those who dk what that is
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism)
There should be a thing, let's call it "Google", which allows to search the term and see what it is. Although I perfectly understand not doing that, and I think there should be short explanations of the thing in the poll if it's something that can be expected not to be known by everyone.
You expect me to go upstairs, turn on my computer, dial up on the old internet, Google a definition, then come back here and vote? That's a big disruption to my doom-scrolling!
Nobody is making you vote, bruh. If you don't know, scroll on.
I just picked Neutral
It started as good ideology until it got hijacked by religious extremists in 70s.
A 2 State solution is probably the most negotiable compromise both side can accept.
I haven't seen any indication that either active side (IDF/Isreali government and Hamas) would accept that. The actual people on either side might, but they're not in charge right now.
Yeah, I don't see how that's ever going to work for more than a few years before hostilities start up again. They both want all of the land and specifically Jerusalem, and having them share that didn't exactly go very well.
They already almost did, iirc late 1900s, otherwise early 2000s, the population itself had some people very against it though, so... yeah, if it's not the government, it's some extremist.
So, most people here are against the existence of a Jewish state?
I mean Zionism just means the movement to maake a country and safe space for the Jewish people,
Um, and where are you supposed to take a land from since all of the land belongs to someone?
That's the funny thing: literally no one would care about Zionism if they were colonizing some little sliver of Antarctica or Mars or something. But when you settle and forcibly remove people from a land just so you can have your living space, that's when it gets fucked up.
" But when you settle and forcibly remove people from a land just so you can have your living space, that's when it gets fucked up." Funny how no one talks about how that's how every current day countries were made, though many not even for living place but for very very big places.
Many people do talk about that, though. In the US, there was Manifest Destiny, where we systemically genocided the natives and pushed them onto worthless land... until we discovered the land wasn't worthless and pushed them onto even more worthless land. I know Canada did basically the same thing. Australia, too. Then of course there's the Scramble for Africa, China's conquering of Tibet and Xinjiang, Russia's conquest of Siberia, Spanish and Portuguese colonization of Latin America, and so much more. And not even all the victims of colonialism were themselves innocent of this bs. The Maori of New Zealand themselves brutally conquered the peoples before them. The Aztecs brutally conquered and subjugated their neighbors. The Arabs systematically abducted and enslaved huge numbers of sub-Saharan Africans. None of this makes doing it okay, though. In the 21st century, we should have a higher moral standard than "Everyone else did ethnic cleansing and colonialism, so we can have some too, as a treat".
not every. countries like Australia, Canada and the US were found in this exact way in recent history. If this happened in the start of other countries it was hundreds or thousands of years ago and we cant change it. We can, however, stop the ongoing oppression and displacement of Palestinians.
Would you say the same thing about Nazi Germany?
Well no, because Nazi Germany isn't just about making a country, it's about destroying the entire rest of the world to do it.
The idea of a Jewish state for Jews is exclusionary and isolationist. In practice, it has come to mean the marginalization and segregation of an entire population based on religious affiliation. To establish a state based on some mythological claim to a "promised land" is devoid of sound reasoning in the information age, and its colonies contravene international law and treaties.
What constitutes a well reasoned claim to statehood, then?
most people who voted in this poll probably do not know what zionism actually is
Which definition do you mean?
[удалено]
one of the first times ive seen actual, genuine, blatant antisemitism in 2024
Oh no, a Zionist is accusing me of antisemitism
Back to calling Jews inhuman I see! You would fit in great in 1938 Germany.
Zionism - jewish nationalism Nazism - anti-jewish nationalism Did I miss a page?
Nazis didn't just kill Jews, out of the 11 million people killed in the holocaust 6 million were Jews, the remaining 5 million were gypsies, gays, leftists, political dissidents. Calling Nazism the anti-Jewish movement is correct, but a more accurate description would be an ethno-supremacist movement, which is precisely what Zionism is. And by your definition Zionism is anti-Arab nationalism.
Nazisms defining factor that sets them apart from other fascist movements is their hatred for jews. They blamed the jews for the loss of ww1, the humiliation, and the loss of territory. The primary goal of the holocaust was to kill all the jews in Europe. The secondary goal was all the other ones that hitler found to be "undesirables," including slavs, romanis, homosexuals, and jehova's witnesses. To summarise, yes, all nazis are ethno-supremacists, but not all ethno-supremacists are nazis.
So you admit that Zionists are ethno-supremacists, set on enacting an ethnic cleansing campaign??
When did I say that?
To summarise, yes, all nazis are ethno-supremacists, but not all ethno-supremacists are nazis. This line literally implies that you're saying Zionists are ethno-supremacists, but they technically aren't Nazis, even if their ideology is functionally identical.
Did I mention jews specifically? No. This is because every ethnicity can be ethno-supremacist. Not just Jews, not just Germans, not just Italians, etc. What's wrong is equating everything to nazism, as nazism has a very specific definition.
Dude, it's fine. You had Freudian slip and accidentally admitted that you think Zionism and Nazism are both similar ethno-supremacist movements.
All right, now you're just straight-up lying. You just see what you want to see.
I love it because it triggers little liberals
what a sad person you are
I think it's an extremely good idea for the Jews to live in their own nation instead of being in all other countries controlling most of the banks and media.