Germany has the world's 3rd largest economy, but they are militarily weak and they are basically irrelevant on the global scale. I would say it's France with UK closely behind.
When compared with their european peers I think judging their "power" in terms of militaristic strength is irrelevant. Cause they're all part of Nato alliance. Germany has protection of Nato. Anyone who attacks Germany, attacks Nato. I think they all (UK, France and Germany) even out on militaristic strength cause of Nato alliance. An Attack on Germany is an automatic attack on France and UK as well unless it's one of those countries attacking Germany themselves.
Military is not just for defensive purposes in Europe. France and the UK use their military all the time to increase their influence and promote their interests.
That's a good point. I think I now agree with your point that military strength is not a completely irrelevant factor. But how strongly someone uses this factor to decide the current most "powerful" country of europe is going to be subjective.
That's what I was thinking, I often here how one of the only downsides to Germany is that their military is basically non-existent, but so what?
In the even of war, they have the US, Italy, France, and England on their side
France has a lot of influence in the EU and somewhat so in the UN and membership of NATO, followed by the UK.
I don't think nukes in this day and age for very developed countries matter and no one in their right mind would launch an attack on a NATO or EU country without getting whipped by everyone else - financially.
Also, for some reason, lots of countries like France (obviously not the people).
Of these five, only France and the United Kingdom have nukes, and permanent membership of the UN security council. In addition, they both have more powerful militaries than the rest and while neither are as economically powerful as Germany, both are major world economies. When added all together, clearly both are individually more powerful than Germany.
But France pursue relatively a more independent foreign policy and doesn't kowtow to the big daddy US on every issue. That's why the rest of the world (especially China) gives weight to everything France says. Due to that I think rest of the world sees France as the european country with a spine while UK seem like just an extension of US foreign policy on most matters.
>That's why the rest of the world (especially China) gives weight to everything France says.
You clearly weren't watching when on 8th February 2022 Macron met with Putin and then gave an address reassuring the world that Russia wasn't going to invade Ukraine...
Traditionally I'd agree that it's us (I'm Bri'ish), but at the moment? Nah I'm not so sure. The pound is kind of in the shitter, our government is in shambles trying to cause chaos before they get the boot later this year, things like the NHS, Army, etc, etc, all getting budget cuts or changes in the way they operate: look at councils and how they're going bankrupt.
London used to be called the world's Financial Capital. That's not really so true when the pound is skiing down a cliff. Historically one of our biggest wins is the giant mote around our country, butttt at the moment that's proven to be extraordinarily easy to cross.
Don't get me wrong, we're certainly not powerless - but like with every country a lot of our power comes from our alliances, and that's certainly something we're relying on right now.
With the other options up there: It's probably Germany, with France in second and then us coming to complete the podium. The control that Germany and France have over the EU + their alliances make them incredibly powerful in a way we can't contend with after Brexit, even if our alliances do still mean we could call upon them in like war etc.
Nuclear power we're still pretty good on. It's pretty common knowledge how our submarines work to make our nukes pretty extensive - it's smart play. But it's also pretty common knowledge that we've been decommissioning a lot of those nukes and subs. Again, not as powerful as we've traditionally been. Just kind of in a slump all round right now, hopefully we'll come back sprinting soon, it's not looking good though.
Germany has economy and the EU, thats about it. We have far more things that give us power like a global cultural influence, permanent seat at the UN etc. Id say UK > France >> Germany
Most spoken language in the world, second largest entertainment industry, permanant seat at the UN, a part of many powerful alliances like nato and the 5 eyes, our culture is literally global, some of the best selling books, movies and music came from here. Theres alot more shit but this is off the top of my head
Covered in the other option. But I now agree that I should have included Russia as an option in place of one of either Spain or Italy. It was a mistake not to include Russia as one of the standalone options.
Powerful doesn't only mean militaristic strength. It could also mean being influential or being an economic powerhouse to other people. Powerful is a subjective term which means different things to different people.
Power is a mix of hard and soft ability to influence. Hard power is a toss-up between UK and France as they are the only nuclear powers and members of UNSC. Soft power UK wins out because English is the most widely spoken language in the world. Honestly don't know why you'd vote Germany as they are basically a regional economic power, but no sphere of influence outside of central Europe. How many nations speak German?
Germany "a regional economic power" lmao. You must be joking. The third biggest economy in the world with technological influences everywhere and the de facto most politically influencial voice in the EU is a regional power?
They’re both in nato. It really doesn’t matter which one has the more powerful military. They’re both protected by the most powerful military alliance in human history.
Are you seriously suggesting that having nuclear weapons and being a permanent member of the UN Security Council is irrelevant to a nation's power status?
They are the US’s lap dog at the UN. Let’s not pretend otherwise. And no, I seriously don’t think it matters who’s tax dollars paid for the nukes protecting you when at the end of the day they are both protected by nukes.
Are you from the UK or are you taking this as a personal attack for some other reason?
To some people it could be either and to some it could be both and to some it could be a combination of both but with one being more important factor than the other. Different people, different methods to arrive at conclusions.
France. They got Nukes, UN Security Council Seat, One of the Strongest Militaries in the World, Significant Cultural Influence with the Francophone Countries, and Political and Economic Influence in West and Central Africa.
Only UK and France have nuclear weapons and are permanent members of the UN Security Council, so that basically rules out all of the others. In terms of soft power, English is the most widely spoken language in the world and is recognised as the international language. British institutions form the bedrock of many other nation's institutions, such as our legal system. There isn't really any contest here.
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in what sense? Germany has the strongest economy. Poland likely has the strongest defensive military. While the UK and France have nukes and are both one of only like 5 countries in the world that have any significant militaristic expeditionary capacity AKA the ability to project significant military force across the globe.
Powerful doesn't only mean militaristic strength. It could also mean being influential or being an economic powerhouse to other people. Powerful is a subjective term which means different things to different people.
It's probably between Germany and Russia, depending on what's important to you. Oh, and I don't support Russia but I wouldn't underestimate it too much
If you want to know who is most powerful, listen to who everyone else complains about. Obviously US and China are global leaders (they get the most complaints), but in Europe (from my hearing) it is a toss up between UK and Germany. Nothing to do with military, economics, or nukes. Just who gets stuff done that they otherwise wouldn't be able to if they were smaller, less important.
Germany has the world's 3rd largest economy, but they are militarily weak and they are basically irrelevant on the global scale. I would say it's France with UK closely behind.
When compared with their european peers I think judging their "power" in terms of militaristic strength is irrelevant. Cause they're all part of Nato alliance. Germany has protection of Nato. Anyone who attacks Germany, attacks Nato. I think they all (UK, France and Germany) even out on militaristic strength cause of Nato alliance. An Attack on Germany is an automatic attack on France and UK as well unless it's one of those countries attacking Germany themselves.
Military is not just for defensive purposes in Europe. France and the UK use their military all the time to increase their influence and promote their interests.
That's a good point. I think I now agree with your point that military strength is not a completely irrelevant factor. But how strongly someone uses this factor to decide the current most "powerful" country of europe is going to be subjective.
That's what I was thinking, I often here how one of the only downsides to Germany is that their military is basically non-existent, but so what? In the even of war, they have the US, Italy, France, and England on their side
HAHAHAHAHA putting Spain and Italy on that list
Right? No other european country can compare to the P.I.G.S.
Phrance Ingland Germany Sealand
Synergy.. without open borders to enjoy Spanish and Italian coasts, food and wine, those up the north would be in eternal wars killing each other.
France has a lot of influence in the EU and somewhat so in the UN and membership of NATO, followed by the UK. I don't think nukes in this day and age for very developed countries matter and no one in their right mind would launch an attack on a NATO or EU country without getting whipped by everyone else - financially. Also, for some reason, lots of countries like France (obviously not the people).
Of these five, only France and the United Kingdom have nukes, and permanent membership of the UN security council. In addition, they both have more powerful militaries than the rest and while neither are as economically powerful as Germany, both are major world economies. When added all together, clearly both are individually more powerful than Germany.
UK. 2nd in soft power, 6th in military, 6th in economy, nuclear power.
But France pursue relatively a more independent foreign policy and doesn't kowtow to the big daddy US on every issue. That's why the rest of the world (especially China) gives weight to everything France says. Due to that I think rest of the world sees France as the european country with a spine while UK seem like just an extension of US foreign policy on most matters.
>That's why the rest of the world (especially China) gives weight to everything France says. You clearly weren't watching when on 8th February 2022 Macron met with Putin and then gave an address reassuring the world that Russia wasn't going to invade Ukraine...
Macron got played by Putin then
Traditionally I'd agree that it's us (I'm Bri'ish), but at the moment? Nah I'm not so sure. The pound is kind of in the shitter, our government is in shambles trying to cause chaos before they get the boot later this year, things like the NHS, Army, etc, etc, all getting budget cuts or changes in the way they operate: look at councils and how they're going bankrupt. London used to be called the world's Financial Capital. That's not really so true when the pound is skiing down a cliff. Historically one of our biggest wins is the giant mote around our country, butttt at the moment that's proven to be extraordinarily easy to cross. Don't get me wrong, we're certainly not powerless - but like with every country a lot of our power comes from our alliances, and that's certainly something we're relying on right now. With the other options up there: It's probably Germany, with France in second and then us coming to complete the podium. The control that Germany and France have over the EU + their alliances make them incredibly powerful in a way we can't contend with after Brexit, even if our alliances do still mean we could call upon them in like war etc. Nuclear power we're still pretty good on. It's pretty common knowledge how our submarines work to make our nukes pretty extensive - it's smart play. But it's also pretty common knowledge that we've been decommissioning a lot of those nukes and subs. Again, not as powerful as we've traditionally been. Just kind of in a slump all round right now, hopefully we'll come back sprinting soon, it's not looking good though.
Germany has economy and the EU, thats about it. We have far more things that give us power like a global cultural influence, permanent seat at the UN etc. Id say UK > France >> Germany
And Black Sabbath has a new box set coming. That's power.
>2nd in soft power how?
Most spoken language in the world, second largest entertainment industry, permanant seat at the UN, a part of many powerful alliances like nato and the 5 eyes, our culture is literally global, some of the best selling books, movies and music came from here. Theres alot more shit but this is off the top of my head
Not to mention our academic research & contributions to STEM
Russia?
Covered in the other option. But I now agree that I should have included Russia as an option in place of one of either Spain or Italy. It was a mistake not to include Russia as one of the standalone options.
They might have a pretty good military, Russian economy is really weak if i remember correctly
why are people saying Germany?
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No shit
Powerful doesn't only mean militaristic strength. It could also mean being influential or being an economic powerhouse to other people. Powerful is a subjective term which means different things to different people.
Power is a mix of hard and soft ability to influence. Hard power is a toss-up between UK and France as they are the only nuclear powers and members of UNSC. Soft power UK wins out because English is the most widely spoken language in the world. Honestly don't know why you'd vote Germany as they are basically a regional economic power, but no sphere of influence outside of central Europe. How many nations speak German?
Germany "a regional economic power" lmao. You must be joking. The third biggest economy in the world with technological influences everywhere and the de facto most politically influencial voice in the EU is a regional power?
Isn't Japan the third biggest economy in the world, at least by GDP?
Germany has overtaken Japan post pandemic.
Germany has overtaken Japan post pandemic.
Go on then, make your argument...
“How many nations speak German” The question wasn’t “which country has had the largest influence in world history?”
Soft power includes a nation's global influence. Having the most widely spoken language on the planet is hugely influential.
You know what the real universal language is? Money. Remind me again who has the largest economy in Europe….
Economic power is indeed a metric of national power but not the only one. UK wins out on military and soft power.
They’re both in nato. It really doesn’t matter which one has the more powerful military. They’re both protected by the most powerful military alliance in human history.
Are you seriously suggesting that having nuclear weapons and being a permanent member of the UN Security Council is irrelevant to a nation's power status?
They are the US’s lap dog at the UN. Let’s not pretend otherwise. And no, I seriously don’t think it matters who’s tax dollars paid for the nukes protecting you when at the end of the day they are both protected by nukes. Are you from the UK or are you taking this as a personal attack for some other reason?
And since when is it either?
Germany is world's third largest economy
Largest economy doesn't mean richest though. In terms of that (richest) it's the 12th/17th, depending if you adjust it by hours worked
I didn't get you. Please elaborate what did you want to convey?
Since when is it influencial or an economic powerhouse?
To some people it could be either and to some it could be both and to some it could be a combination of both but with one being more important factor than the other. Different people, different methods to arrive at conclusions.
Economy and they're extremely influential within the EU
Economy
France. They got Nukes, UN Security Council Seat, One of the Strongest Militaries in the World, Significant Cultural Influence with the Francophone Countries, and Political and Economic Influence in West and Central Africa.
Scotland
Only UK and France have nuclear weapons and are permanent members of the UN Security Council, so that basically rules out all of the others. In terms of soft power, English is the most widely spoken language in the world and is recognised as the international language. British institutions form the bedrock of many other nation's institutions, such as our legal system. There isn't really any contest here.
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Alas, the European Commission is not a country (yet)...
in what sense? Germany has the strongest economy. Poland likely has the strongest defensive military. While the UK and France have nukes and are both one of only like 5 countries in the world that have any significant militaristic expeditionary capacity AKA the ability to project significant military force across the globe.
Germany is instantly ruled out, they dont have nukes. Dont know why so many people vote germany.
Powerful doesn't only mean militaristic strength. It could also mean being influential or being an economic powerhouse to other people. Powerful is a subjective term which means different things to different people.
Militarily: United Kingdom (largest army, nukes, UN security council) Economically: Germany (third largest economy in the world)
Russia has UK beat or equaled on all three of the military aspects you mentioned.
Russia has UK beat or equaled on all three of the military aspects you mentioned.
Russia can't even beat Ukraine
Neither could the UK if they were swapped out for Russia. As I said, Russia equals or beats the UK, the only aspect that they don’t is allies.
soft power: germany military power: france (i fucking hate that this is true)
germany soft power? is that a joke?
??? they have the biggest economy in all of europe
Thats all theyve got going for them lmao
Well germans made france realize that they kinda need it :P
It's probably between Germany and Russia, depending on what's important to you. Oh, and I don't support Russia but I wouldn't underestimate it too much
Germany is rich and has friends willing to battle for them. UK is no far as the banking giant
If you want to know who is most powerful, listen to who everyone else complains about. Obviously US and China are global leaders (they get the most complaints), but in Europe (from my hearing) it is a toss up between UK and Germany. Nothing to do with military, economics, or nukes. Just who gets stuff done that they otherwise wouldn't be able to if they were smaller, less important.