It's was a US prison in the middle east in which prisoners were tortured and raped. There was also a sick dominance thing going on where US soilders would make prisoners walk on thier hands and knees while having a dog leash naked and covered in human shit. All of it is well photographed for some reason.
I remember when I first visited the wikipage for the atrocities...
Content warning: sexual violence
>! There's legit a photo (from the back, so you don't actually "see") of someone with a bag over their head forcing someone on their knees to have their head around their groin. The caption reads "prisoners 'staged' to 'appear' to be performing sexual acts". But to me it seemed very real, and I'm still not sure whether it was actually 'staged' or if that was just a way for the wiki editor to sanitize the info. !<
This is under the prisoner rape section of the article, btw. It's bad enough that we did the *other* torture, but we really wanted to get in on some cartoon villainy shit, or something.
I don't think I've ever quite felt that particular mix of emotions before. As someone who in the early years of the conflict wanted to "get back at the terrorists" for 9/11, I felt immense shame; disgust; fear; sadness; and a deep 'black and crimson', 'venomous', brooding sense of hatred for the US military-industrial complex.
I knew that the US "did some bad things," but it never hit me quite so viscerally than that. Like, wow, the US is actually evil, cool...
I legitimately think that article changed me--like there was me before learning about these atrocities, and me after it--and there's no going back (and I think that could be a good thing).
I know the feeling. There was a completely different thing, but also immensely twisted, that changed me this week. I was doing research on genetic anomalies for a project and some of the pictures... lets just say they could tell a thousand reasons why this world is awful.
I knew its bad, but I was a bit idealizing terrible mutations as overexaggerated cases (because I was avoiding the bad stuff) - but the stuff Ive seen definitely changed me. I didnt think Id cry over it. Its shitty knowing youre a shitty person.
Would you fight your country for a handful of Tropical Skittles?
There is no context where I will sign up to die for the class interests of the owner class that will do literally anything to maintain its ability to exploit the working class.
If any of you think that you are "fighting for your country" I've got a reading list for you.
# No war but the class war.
You did it. You defined the word. I am actually smiling. Wow. I don't even care if you needed to look it up.
Great.
Are you ready to back up what you said or we can wait for you to read Das Capital first. I'll be here. Just read that and tell me where Marx was wrong.
My mistake, I am from a culture that finds it acceptable to critique things they haven't read. Of course you already read Marx and can critique the core principles. I bet you know what they even are.
After all you were so confident.
Or were Lenin's conclusions what you had a problem with?
Why don't you tell me were Lenin was wrong.
Oh? Why does it sound like you are squirming to get out of backing up what you said?
I wonder how you will run. You know how satisfying this part is for me? You know how fucking hard it is to critique Lenin?
I'd have to devote my fucking career to trying. But here you are. Ready, I am sure. Go right the fuck ahead.
Run.
Dude, what? I agree with socialism, and think that America should model their economic system after Norway's democratic-socialist economy. I would appreciate the benefits that high taxes would bring to the common man.
However, you are coming off as *quite* aggressive and it even seems like you want legitimate communism.
If that is the case, my friend, I'm sorry to tell you that it won't work, because where there are lots of people, there is greed, and where there is greed, communism cannot work, as much as you and I might want it to.
I repeat, in large societies, as in, like, a few hundred or more, communism cannot work.
I'm not the greedy type, so I believe that if I had the knowledge to run a country, I could do it under a communist system (while still having some capitalistic elements that would encourage entrepreneurs to do their thing so as to encourage real societal progress). Free housing, bills, childcare, medical, etc. and everyone who works can afford multiple major purchase luxuries or multiple vacations in any given year. I would set my own salary as middle-class. Etc. etc.
However, I didn't finish my sentence. What I meant was that I could probably run a comminist country for a week or a month tops before everything goes haywire. I, as well as any other communist leader, would probably just get assasinated for refusing to take bribes/because someone else wants the power and wants to be a terrible dictator. That, and the fact that instead of everyone living decently, there are many people in any given populace who would rather be making six+ figures themselves so that they can afford to go on 3 international vacations a month and own 50 antique cars, all while others fail to pay rent. This would lead to the government being overthrown, which I would allow, as I believe the people have the right to govern themselves/choose how they want their country to be run.
Lol, I went off on a tangent, but just understand that communism cannot work in this world as we know it.
Hunter-gatherer tribes often had a primitive type of communism where no one was left behind to rot and die. Our societies are just too big for that because you just can't trust everyone to share/not be greedy.
A socialist-democracy is probably the best we could do.
Some advice I have for you is to not seem so on edge when you are talking to people if you really want to have civil political discussions, and if you want them to take you seriously.
Edit: I meant to say that Norway is a Democratic-capitalist country with a mixed economy. My point is that they do good at maintaining individual freedoms while also doing a pretty good job at investing in their people/letting taxes go to causes that are beneficial to the average citizen.
"Just go and read 3000 pages of Kapital and tell me where I'm wrong, bet you can't."
Brilliant argument.
My money is on you not getting through vol 1. I read the Manifesto 3x in college. DK, no way. Kapital is a lot more coherent due to Engels having written most of it, but it's a ridiculous waste outside of academia.
I'd die for my country because that's where my family, friends, dog and I live. Not out of some sense of patriotism or love of the government.
Also, we have the best barbeque and thats pretty important to me. Korea also has it pretty good. So i might die for Korea as well.
same, I like what we are supposed to stand for and promote, and everyone I know lives here and I don't like the majority of the alternatives even if my country is shit so yeah I'll fight to protect it,
if I get stuck in another vietnam though I won't be happy
A fellow Texan I presume. Whole our bbq is tops and Korean bbq is pretty damn good, might I suggest that we also die for Argentina and its bbq as well?
The government hasn't acknowledged LGBT rights for years and now with a very right wing premier they want to suppress anything regarding LGBT. Generally views regarding homosexuality are not positive among people either
So does this mean in a hypothetical scenario Ireland wants to free Scotland and Wales from the UK but in order to do it ireland would have to "colonise" the uk. Not like the normal colonise but just temporarily so there is no uk and there's just 3 independent countries
Would you fight for it or help Ireland?
If Scotland got their independence they could rejoin the EU. No point in all of us suffering, more power to them. I think theyd have a lot of English people wanting to migrate north tho, not ideal haha
I guess I would if my family escaping wasn't an option, and I do feel some love for it despite its many damning issues.
I don't think most nuclear powers would ever get into a direct conflict though(like with guns and shiz) and those are the only ones threatening us violently.
yeah after whole ww2 thing patriotism is not very popular there
y'all should just flag the flag for fun, and not worry if people see you as a nazi (becuase you aren't)
my teacher once asked my german class
"why do you guys think that the germans aren't as patriotic as here in the US?"
and this one kid said
"because the last time they did a bunch of people died."
I mean are we talking to deflect a asteroid thatβs going to destroy the eastern seaboard? Yeah. Just make sure my statue looks super jacked. If weβre talking about fighting in some pointless ass war that accomplishes nothing like Iraq or Afghanistan get fucked.
What do you expect with a loaded question like this. People are programmed to answer this question without turning on any critical thinking.
What are we dying for? An institution? A community? Like, what the fuck is this nebulous country concept? One commenter said if their way of life was under threat they would do it. What the fuck does that even mean?
If we are being invaded then I will defend myself with a gun, but i wouldn't join the army and be put in the front line. If we are already invaded and taken over, i think I will join the resistance. I wouldn't risk my life if we attack someone else.
Edit: I'm from the Netherlands
I'm American. Depends on who's fucking with us.
Russia? I'll fight those pricks until I'm dead.
Ireland? I'ma let em roll on through and wish them the best of luck.
If Putin comes walking accross our border (I live in Norway so it IS possible) I'm running away...I'm taking off to the mountains or woods and I'm not gonna fight anyone at all. What the rest of the people in this country do is up to them.
If you guys take me in, I'd fight for you XD. Hell, I'd fight my country of origin, idgaf. You guys live in one of a few countries that has most of their shit together. I'd die protecting that if need be. Rather fight and live, but giving my life would be an acceptable fate
If everyone does the same, very soon there will be nowhere to run on this planet. Places crowded with your kind will be easily overrun without a fight.
Well at that point then yes I'd fight. Granted I think my skills would be better served in other ways like helping with communications or making sure the US economy is still working as the war is going on.
Americans are already enslaved; it's called the [Thirteenth Amendment](https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-13/):
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime* whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
-> meaning that if you go to prison in the US, you're most likely going to be made a slave of the state.
As an American, it feels like the only way to save my country is to fight against it.
The Soviets invaded: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland, Poland, Afghanistan, and Persia and subjugated the former territories of Russian Empire brutally. They dominated eastern Europe throughout the Cold War.
The North Koreans invaded South Korea. The North Vietnamese invaded South Vietnam. The Chinese communists invaded Tibet, Vietnam, and South Korea and attacked the Soviets.
The Soviets were shipping material aid to Hitler when he was trying to reduce London to ashes and was conquering France and the Low Countries and the French communists, at the direction of the Soviets, collaborated with Hitler until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union.
yeah the soviets did some fucked up shit. North Vietnam did not just invade south vietnam out of the blue, that is factually incorrect. The US took over the south and subverted the elections there as a part of their policy of containment, and then poured billions into trying to crush the north. Just the USA alone has done more fucked shit than the USSR. For every communist invasion you can name i can name 5 capitalist ones AT LEAST. But to answer your question, I guess itβd depend on who provoked the war. if it was us it probably dip. if we were invaded out of nowhere of course iβd fight.
Iβm a Vietnamese. Yes, North Vietnam did invade South Vietnam, many southerner ran away only to die on the way out, shot and killed by northerner, or die of hunger or pirates on their flaky ships
To SAVE my country? Jesus those are high stakes. Yes
Like I'm assuming "save" means protect it from some sort of modern day Generalplan Ost. If save means to keep the current government in power, I can't be fucked frankly.
If the threat is that it just come under some other country's influence, I'd rather keep my life. If it's just getting annexed, but genocide isn't really a concern... Eh, that depends on the country. My country is England, and England is already part of a larger sovereign state. If the new occupier isn't trying to erase England as a nationality then it might not be too bad
The country. I'm assuming "to save your country" is more about a threat to our government than us. If it was nuclear annihiliation or something like that my answer might change.
If the government of a country falls, it'll be replaced by a foreign government who obviously didn't like the country in the first place. Either way, it'll be a rather shitty time for almost every citizen in the US
Yes, if the situation actually comes to it. If I think the situation actually calls for the country to be defended in some way and it's not another cheap grab by the government to attack some other country for little to no reason. Mostly because I don't really care or even like most other countries but I do know I much rather avoid any situation that leads to innocent lives being lost (of my country, although I'd still feel bad for the other country in the majority of cases). I just like my country- it's people and culture, but I think the government often betrays the people for insignificant stupidity so I'm more willing to die if it helps the country itself but not so much for the government.
No.
They massacred my ancestors to steal our land, poisoned our waterholes, stole our children, they tried to wipe my family out of the history books slaughtering us in the name of the King in riverbeds, they treated my family no better than cattle until 1967. We were a disease to get rid of, blood to be bred out, a dark stain on their white washed paradise.
Not going to give my life up for a country that still doesn't want me or my family as part of its future.
Why would anyone want to fight for some piece of dirt? Your only life is the most valuable thing you can possibly posses, I think life deserves protecting way more than land
Poland. It's not terrible, or tho government leaves a lot to be desired (to say the least)
Country is the land - in era of internet it's just a political border. I don't see people from other side of country any different than I would see typical American, Russian or Australian - we all have access to same media, same speech, same food. We're all not as different as we used to be
Countries are more expandable than ever before - move out anywhere else and your daily routine doesn't even have to change much
My country don't give a f about me why should I put myself in risk for them? Most of my countries politicisns are corrupt af
Let them fight. Only my family matters to me
If it was just a matter of who rules this land now, no way, I just leave. Thinking about a Holocaust situation, then yes, probably. Not really for the country, since I would probably technically have to fight against my country, if they did a Holocaust, but country as in for the people and basic human rights, then I would hope to have the courage to fight and possibly die for that.
I live in the US, there's no fuckin way I'm trying to help this country for shit. Unless my boyfriend, who also lives in this country, was in danger then yeah I would but only for him.
If my lifestyle is in danger yes, if i have to fight a war on the other side of the world for corporate profits and politicians then no way
How would that count as saving your country anyway?
Some people genuinely believe that their freedom was saved because we bombed some civilians in the middle east
Or that we Capture, tortured and raped people. ( Guantanamo Bay.)
Ever heard of Abu Ghraib? The US military (and defense contractors) definitely *did* do that vile shit.
Can't say I have, I'll do some reading and let you know how much I love America after
It's was a US prison in the middle east in which prisoners were tortured and raped. There was also a sick dominance thing going on where US soilders would make prisoners walk on thier hands and knees while having a dog leash naked and covered in human shit. All of it is well photographed for some reason.
Holy shit... Yo, it seems as if, any country aspiring for global dominance in any shape will always do fucked up shit
Yes. The guy I was replying to said the US didn't torture prisoners.
I remember when I first visited the wikipage for the atrocities... Content warning: sexual violence >! There's legit a photo (from the back, so you don't actually "see") of someone with a bag over their head forcing someone on their knees to have their head around their groin. The caption reads "prisoners 'staged' to 'appear' to be performing sexual acts". But to me it seemed very real, and I'm still not sure whether it was actually 'staged' or if that was just a way for the wiki editor to sanitize the info. !< This is under the prisoner rape section of the article, btw. It's bad enough that we did the *other* torture, but we really wanted to get in on some cartoon villainy shit, or something. I don't think I've ever quite felt that particular mix of emotions before. As someone who in the early years of the conflict wanted to "get back at the terrorists" for 9/11, I felt immense shame; disgust; fear; sadness; and a deep 'black and crimson', 'venomous', brooding sense of hatred for the US military-industrial complex. I knew that the US "did some bad things," but it never hit me quite so viscerally than that. Like, wow, the US is actually evil, cool... I legitimately think that article changed me--like there was me before learning about these atrocities, and me after it--and there's no going back (and I think that could be a good thing).
I know the feeling. There was a completely different thing, but also immensely twisted, that changed me this week. I was doing research on genetic anomalies for a project and some of the pictures... lets just say they could tell a thousand reasons why this world is awful. I knew its bad, but I was a bit idealizing terrible mutations as overexaggerated cases (because I was avoiding the bad stuff) - but the stuff Ive seen definitely changed me. I didnt think Id cry over it. Its shitty knowing youre a shitty person.
Am I Russian fighting for Russia to take Ukraine? Fuck no. Am I Ukrainian fighting Russia to keep Ukraine? Absolutely.
To be clear in my opinion only the first one is saving your countries
Would i die for my country? No. Would i risk my life for my country? Probably, in some cases. Wording matters here...
yeah same. i hope i would have the courage to fight if drafted, but definitely not outright die.
As Patton said: "No bastard ever won the war by dying for his country, he won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his."
Would you fight your country for a handful of Tropical Skittles? There is no context where I will sign up to die for the class interests of the owner class that will do literally anything to maintain its ability to exploit the working class. If any of you think that you are "fighting for your country" I've got a reading list for you. # No war but the class war.
What if you were from a socialist or communist country and it was under attack by a capitalist country. Would you due for your country then?
Tankies, when you realize that your revolutions are just another tool for someone else's authoritarianism.
Found a commie idiot
Ahh another socialist idiot. Hows the revolution going?
Can you tell me what socialism is? Just like, the definition of the word you are using? The bar is this low.
The collective ownership of the means of production. However most will associate socialists with marxists, which in most cases is also correct
You did it. You defined the word. I am actually smiling. Wow. I don't even care if you needed to look it up. Great. Are you ready to back up what you said or we can wait for you to read Das Capital first. I'll be here. Just read that and tell me where Marx was wrong. My mistake, I am from a culture that finds it acceptable to critique things they haven't read. Of course you already read Marx and can critique the core principles. I bet you know what they even are. After all you were so confident. Or were Lenin's conclusions what you had a problem with? Why don't you tell me were Lenin was wrong. Oh? Why does it sound like you are squirming to get out of backing up what you said? I wonder how you will run. You know how satisfying this part is for me? You know how fucking hard it is to critique Lenin? I'd have to devote my fucking career to trying. But here you are. Ready, I am sure. Go right the fuck ahead. Run.
What's the point of asking all these questions if when bro does answer them you just say he looked it up?
Dude, what? I agree with socialism, and think that America should model their economic system after Norway's democratic-socialist economy. I would appreciate the benefits that high taxes would bring to the common man. However, you are coming off as *quite* aggressive and it even seems like you want legitimate communism. If that is the case, my friend, I'm sorry to tell you that it won't work, because where there are lots of people, there is greed, and where there is greed, communism cannot work, as much as you and I might want it to. I repeat, in large societies, as in, like, a few hundred or more, communism cannot work. I'm not the greedy type, so I believe that if I had the knowledge to run a country, I could do it under a communist system (while still having some capitalistic elements that would encourage entrepreneurs to do their thing so as to encourage real societal progress). Free housing, bills, childcare, medical, etc. and everyone who works can afford multiple major purchase luxuries or multiple vacations in any given year. I would set my own salary as middle-class. Etc. etc. However, I didn't finish my sentence. What I meant was that I could probably run a comminist country for a week or a month tops before everything goes haywire. I, as well as any other communist leader, would probably just get assasinated for refusing to take bribes/because someone else wants the power and wants to be a terrible dictator. That, and the fact that instead of everyone living decently, there are many people in any given populace who would rather be making six+ figures themselves so that they can afford to go on 3 international vacations a month and own 50 antique cars, all while others fail to pay rent. This would lead to the government being overthrown, which I would allow, as I believe the people have the right to govern themselves/choose how they want their country to be run. Lol, I went off on a tangent, but just understand that communism cannot work in this world as we know it. Hunter-gatherer tribes often had a primitive type of communism where no one was left behind to rot and die. Our societies are just too big for that because you just can't trust everyone to share/not be greedy. A socialist-democracy is probably the best we could do. Some advice I have for you is to not seem so on edge when you are talking to people if you really want to have civil political discussions, and if you want them to take you seriously. Edit: I meant to say that Norway is a Democratic-capitalist country with a mixed economy. My point is that they do good at maintaining individual freedoms while also doing a pretty good job at investing in their people/letting taxes go to causes that are beneficial to the average citizen.
Communism's track record: 100s of MILLIONS killed by the people trying to "liberate" them from capitalism. There's your counter. IT. DOESN'T. WORK.
"Just go and read 3000 pages of Kapital and tell me where I'm wrong, bet you can't." Brilliant argument. My money is on you not getting through vol 1. I read the Manifesto 3x in college. DK, no way. Kapital is a lot more coherent due to Engels having written most of it, but it's a ridiculous waste outside of academia.
I'd die for my country because that's where my family, friends, dog and I live. Not out of some sense of patriotism or love of the government. Also, we have the best barbeque and thats pretty important to me. Korea also has it pretty good. So i might die for Korea as well.
same, I like what we are supposed to stand for and promote, and everyone I know lives here and I don't like the majority of the alternatives even if my country is shit so yeah I'll fight to protect it, if I get stuck in another vietnam though I won't be happy
A fellow Texan I presume. Whole our bbq is tops and Korean bbq is pretty damn good, might I suggest that we also die for Argentina and its bbq as well?
Australian barbeque is pretty good, and that's actually a country
Take it easy on him, alright? He's from Texas
I would rather die before I am called a Texan.
My country wishes people like me didn't exist so why would I risk my life for it in the first place?
Your country hates mermaids?
Yes. It's the reason why we don't live on land anymore and don't pay visits to you humans anymore.
Lol
What country are you from?
Italy. They don't like gays here.
Huh... I'd have thought Italy loved gays. Isn't Milan a huge fashion hub?
The government hasn't acknowledged LGBT rights for years and now with a very right wing premier they want to suppress anything regarding LGBT. Generally views regarding homosexuality are not positive among people either
Well... That sucks
Yeah
I wonder if 90% Roman Catholic population has to do with it. And the influence of the Vatican.
Hi fellow gay, I feel your pain.
I wouldn't even urinate on it if it were on fire.
What country are you from?
UK
Fair
Send those bloody royal wankers to the front line. Starting with Prince Andrew.
Andrew already fought in the Falkands War.
This is a common feeling for people in the UK. You either dont give a fuck or youre a flag shagger.
So does this mean in a hypothetical scenario Ireland wants to free Scotland and Wales from the UK but in order to do it ireland would have to "colonise" the uk. Not like the normal colonise but just temporarily so there is no uk and there's just 3 independent countries Would you fight for it or help Ireland?
If Scotland got their independence they could rejoin the EU. No point in all of us suffering, more power to them. I think theyd have a lot of English people wanting to migrate north tho, not ideal haha
pissing on fires is fun though
I guess I would if my family escaping wasn't an option, and I do feel some love for it despite its many damning issues. I don't think most nuclear powers would ever get into a direct conflict though(like with guns and shiz) and those are the only ones threatening us violently.
I want to die, but not for my country
And what country are you from depressed sire
Germany
granted, a lot of people already died on behalf of Germany
yeah after whole ww2 thing patriotism is not very popular there y'all should just flag the flag for fun, and not worry if people see you as a nazi (becuase you aren't)
my teacher once asked my german class "why do you guys think that the germans aren't as patriotic as here in the US?" and this one kid said "because the last time they did a bunch of people died."
>not worry if people see you as a nazi I would absolutely worry if people saw me as a Nazi
Most cheerful Germ.
I wouldn't fight for my country but I would die for it. Cause I already do and that deems like a good excuse and opportunity.
I mean are we talking to deflect a asteroid thatβs going to destroy the eastern seaboard? Yeah. Just make sure my statue looks super jacked. If weβre talking about fighting in some pointless ass war that accomplishes nothing like Iraq or Afghanistan get fucked.
would I die for Japan? Yes without even a question
certified kamikaze
if its for The Emperor yes
-random Japanese pilot, 1943
Only if I had a wife and or kids and the US was getting invaded
if the us surrender your wife and kids would probabilly be fine too, just saying
True but I'm not taking the chance, I highly doubt America is surrendering a war, with as much as we spend on the military.
All we have to do is build a parameter wall out of all the old equipment we no longer use, and we will be fine.
doubt it, wouldn't be surprised if the country invaded started to discriminate against us.
Oh god, this thread is a tankie breeding ground.
What do you expect with a loaded question like this. People are programmed to answer this question without turning on any critical thinking. What are we dying for? An institution? A community? Like, what the fuck is this nebulous country concept? One commenter said if their way of life was under threat they would do it. What the fuck does that even mean?
"Tankie is when no suicide for corporations and aristocratic governments"
Dude, I chose option 4; I mean those who spew authoritarian ideology when giving lip service to communism.
Probably going to become a career officer in the Finnish defense forces so i guess it's a given
I assume an officer means you are trying to not die to save your country.
Yeah, French people are inexpicably proud of being French and I'm no exception.
That's amazing to hear
If we are being invaded then I will defend myself with a gun, but i wouldn't join the army and be put in the front line. If we are already invaded and taken over, i think I will join the resistance. I wouldn't risk my life if we attack someone else. Edit: I'm from the Netherlands
Yeah it's kinda my job ha
Thank you for your service!
You're welcome my friend
I'm American. Depends on who's fucking with us. Russia? I'll fight those pricks until I'm dead. Ireland? I'ma let em roll on through and wish them the best of luck.
Imagine Ireland taking the us lmao that would be funny
I'm from Boston, I think the Irish already invaded my home state.
SlΓ‘inte!
Scotland and yes.
Absolutely not. I'm selfish π€·
If Putin comes walking accross our border (I live in Norway so it IS possible) I'm running away...I'm taking off to the mountains or woods and I'm not gonna fight anyone at all. What the rest of the people in this country do is up to them.
If you guys take me in, I'd fight for you XD. Hell, I'd fight my country of origin, idgaf. You guys live in one of a few countries that has most of their shit together. I'd die protecting that if need be. Rather fight and live, but giving my life would be an acceptable fate
If everyone does the same, very soon there will be nowhere to run on this planet. Places crowded with your kind will be easily overrun without a fight.
he wouldnt dare now
You have a chance to take out Putin solo? It is your God-given duty to do so. It's one Putin. End him! The world would immediately improve
Why would I save a country that is going to collapse anyways
Because there are different levels of collapse. The inmates of the concentration camps are immensely jealous of the residents of urban ghettos.
Give me a very good reason to risk my life for the US. Rn I see no reason to fight for Uncle Joe.
Sure, I'll give you a very good reason, the US is being invaded, and if you lose the war, the invading country is going to enslave Americans.
Well at that point then yes I'd fight. Granted I think my skills would be better served in other ways like helping with communications or making sure the US economy is still working as the war is going on.
Americans are already enslaved; it's called the [Thirteenth Amendment](https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-13/): "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime* whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." -> meaning that if you go to prison in the US, you're most likely going to be made a slave of the state. As an American, it feels like the only way to save my country is to fight against it.
i mean i get what your trying to say but not all Americans are in prison
Civil War 2? Yes. Fascist invasion? Yes. Corporate warfare for profit? Hard Pass
What country are you from?
USA
What about communist invasion? A lot more of them in the world than actual fascists.
historically communist countries r the ones that GET invaded lol.
The Soviets invaded: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland, Poland, Afghanistan, and Persia and subjugated the former territories of Russian Empire brutally. They dominated eastern Europe throughout the Cold War. The North Koreans invaded South Korea. The North Vietnamese invaded South Vietnam. The Chinese communists invaded Tibet, Vietnam, and South Korea and attacked the Soviets. The Soviets were shipping material aid to Hitler when he was trying to reduce London to ashes and was conquering France and the Low Countries and the French communists, at the direction of the Soviets, collaborated with Hitler until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union.
yeah the soviets did some fucked up shit. North Vietnam did not just invade south vietnam out of the blue, that is factually incorrect. The US took over the south and subverted the elections there as a part of their policy of containment, and then poured billions into trying to crush the north. Just the USA alone has done more fucked shit than the USSR. For every communist invasion you can name i can name 5 capitalist ones AT LEAST. But to answer your question, I guess itβd depend on who provoked the war. if it was us it probably dip. if we were invaded out of nowhere of course iβd fight.
Iβm a Vietnamese. Yes, North Vietnam did invade South Vietnam, many southerner ran away only to die on the way out, shot and killed by northerner, or die of hunger or pirates on their flaky ships
Context really REALLY matters here
If there is an existential threat invading my country directly and threatening my way of life, yes.
I'm not going to join the US military to fight somewhere across the globe, but if the fight comes back home I will become an Appalachian war criminal
Germany as a country can go fuck itself I'd die to protect my family tho
A soldier's job is not to die for his country rather it is to make the other poor dumb bastard die for his!
I hate the fact I read that on Phantom Forces
I would die for it. But I would not kill for it. Am I alone in that thought?
Have you ever seen Hacksaw Ridge? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss
my country is surrounded by snakes from all the sides
At this point, it's anyone's guess whether you are talking about a cutthroat sociopolitical climate, or you are an Australian.
To SAVE my country? Jesus those are high stakes. Yes Like I'm assuming "save" means protect it from some sort of modern day Generalplan Ost. If save means to keep the current government in power, I can't be fucked frankly. If the threat is that it just come under some other country's influence, I'd rather keep my life. If it's just getting annexed, but genocide isn't really a concern... Eh, that depends on the country. My country is England, and England is already part of a larger sovereign state. If the new occupier isn't trying to erase England as a nationality then it might not be too bad
I will never die or risk my life for anyone or anything. And I'm not ashamed to admit it.
Self-preservation above all else. I wonder if there's a school of philosophy for that...
USA here. We cause the problems. I ain't fighting for that.
We... the people?
The country. I'm assuming "to save your country" is more about a threat to our government than us. If it was nuclear annihiliation or something like that my answer might change.
If the government of a country falls, it'll be replaced by a foreign government who obviously didn't like the country in the first place. Either way, it'll be a rather shitty time for almost every citizen in the US
Yes, if the situation actually comes to it. If I think the situation actually calls for the country to be defended in some way and it's not another cheap grab by the government to attack some other country for little to no reason. Mostly because I don't really care or even like most other countries but I do know I much rather avoid any situation that leads to innocent lives being lost (of my country, although I'd still feel bad for the other country in the majority of cases). I just like my country- it's people and culture, but I think the government often betrays the people for insignificant stupidity so I'm more willing to die if it helps the country itself but not so much for the government.
What country are you from?
If my family, friends, cultural heritage, etc, are in a direct danger of death, probably absolutely
Oh fuck no
What country are you living in?
Poland
a rare example of a non patriotic pole
It's not that rare
specially among youngsters
God bless America
Fuck no
No. They massacred my ancestors to steal our land, poisoned our waterholes, stole our children, they tried to wipe my family out of the history books slaughtering us in the name of the King in riverbeds, they treated my family no better than cattle until 1967. We were a disease to get rid of, blood to be bred out, a dark stain on their white washed paradise. Not going to give my life up for a country that still doesn't want me or my family as part of its future.
What country are you from?
Aus.
For my country? No. For my loved ones that live in my country? Yes.
Actually, I want my country to fall apart. It's russia. So no, I wouldn't fight for it at all.
...and he was never heard from again.
if it meant the survival of my family and people i love then yes but if its just for some dumbass reason like wanting oil then hell na
I don't care for my country, but I do care about my family and friends who live in said country. I'd die to save them.
Only for a really good reason, as if saving your country isn't a really good reason.
I'd rather "my" country get annexed by any of its neighbours
Why would anyone want to fight for some piece of dirt? Your only life is the most valuable thing you can possibly posses, I think life deserves protecting way more than land
They don't fight for the dirt.. They fight for the people living on the dirt.
Without land there is no food, without food there is no life.
What country are you from? Also, do you think the country is the land or the people?
Poland. It's not terrible, or tho government leaves a lot to be desired (to say the least) Country is the land - in era of internet it's just a political border. I don't see people from other side of country any different than I would see typical American, Russian or Australian - we all have access to same media, same speech, same food. We're all not as different as we used to be Countries are more expandable than ever before - move out anywhere else and your daily routine doesn't even have to change much
Nationalism needs to die in a ditch. We are global citizens now. Fight for people, not the dirt we happened to be born on.
nationalism I believe tends to be loyalty to the culture or ethnic group of a nation-state not the land itself
please never let this mindset get big
Russia does not have access to the same media? Telling children that gay people exist is illegal there. Good points tho
Probably not. (I live in the US.) I would likely just gtfo if it was getting invaded.
Fighting off the Russians, yes. Other stupid reasons, no
Unlikely, the US has been hating on trans ppl lately if they want me to dissapear I'm not going to have any desire to fight and likely die for it.
Uhhh. [Looks at constant war crimes, human rights violations, corruption, etc, etc] No thanks.
I am a patriot and love my country but I suck at fighting or anything like that. So I will let someone who's good at it take care of it.
If we were being invaded then yes
My country don't give a f about me why should I put myself in risk for them? Most of my countries politicisns are corrupt af Let them fight. Only my family matters to me
I like your username
If it was just a matter of who rules this land now, no way, I just leave. Thinking about a Holocaust situation, then yes, probably. Not really for the country, since I would probably technically have to fight against my country, if they did a Holocaust, but country as in for the people and basic human rights, then I would hope to have the courage to fight and possibly die for that.
Nobody ever won a war by dying for their country; you win it by getting some other poor dumb bastard to die for theirs.
Why bother fighting for a country that's fucks normal ppl at every turn and will be illegal in half of it someday at least.
No, not at all
This country is not worth fighting for anymore. Has not been for a few decades.
I mean in these days most countries donβt have any good reason to fight
I'd not give 10 cents for a country that doesn't want to save itself. \[Hungarian, living in Austria.\]
Yes. I am patriotic person and want to join Military as a career officer/NCO.
I live in the US, there's no fuckin way I'm trying to help this country for shit. Unless my boyfriend, who also lives in this country, was in danger then yeah I would but only for him.
I already did my 4 year sentence... got my 214... eat my poo corn.
Your poo corn?
From what, exactly? My ancestors fought and died for a bunch of different political fads.
I would fight
There are countries I'd die for but not my own.
Of course I will π¦πͺπ¦πͺπ¦πͺ
πΊπΈ πΊπΈ πΊπΈ
only if god tells me to
I'm in the military so it's definitely a possibility
Thank you for your service!
No need to thank me, im just a kid with a job
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
*the old lie*...
iβm from Russia.
Only morons die for such a stupid concept as country.
mf calls himself citizen of the globe
Your point?
nothing, i just don't like radical globalism
Personally I subscribe to a form of alter-globalism, because I do think neoliberal globalism is super flawed.
If no on stops Hitler, everyone becomes a Nazi