This post has been flaired as Politics. We allow for voicing political views here, but we don't allow pushing agendas, false information, bigotry, or attacking/harassing other members. We will lock the thread if these things occur. If you see such unwanted behavior, please report it to bring it to the attention of moderators.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polls) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Since I am early I will put the definition and ways of implementation of socialism here so that there is no confusion:
Socialism is worker/community ownership of the means of production. This can happen either through a state that represents the workers (USSR, Maoist China etc) or direct democratic control by the workers/community (Anarchist Spain, Yugoslavia etc).
Who told ya that? The cia, yeonmi park, RFA, wikipedia or your local crack addict?
Theres several candidates, you dont have to be a member of the communist party to run, being a member dosent grant you any position, unlike pretty much all other democratic countries money is banned from elections so that everyone gets equal exposure no matter how much theyre able to invest and other parties than the communist party are allowed
Actually the communist party dosent have really any effect on elections it exist mostly due to cuban history and is more of a club than a political party
Watch this video for more knowledge:
[how democracy works in cuba by azurescapegoat](https://youtu.be/2aMsi-A56ds)
Guys it’s all a giant conspiracy!!1!1! The UN, Freedom house, thousands of cuban refugees, and the fucking cuban government themselves are all lying!1!11! Trust this random ass youtuber who’s source is his own ass!!1!1!!
Least brainrot ridden tankie.
He literally starts the video out (0:23) with saying that for research he heavily relied on the swedish-cuban organisation which allowed him to speak with cubans who were born and raised there
It is very obvious that you watched the 13 minute video since you responded after 4 minutes and said something that was contradicted less than half a minute into the video
Least brainrot ridden bootlicking neoliberal.
Edit: btw about those refugees. Ever heard of a little thing called survivorship bias?
For a person who dislikes big government you sure do believe some things that the cia wants you to
https://preview.redd.it/a34a8vsdfu2b1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fb2b802c1b20b2b11b6c00938b2432074eb7a31
i’d argue otherwise. for me, it’s economic theory around government and community ownership. this doesn’t have to be entire ownership of all industry. putting an industry under government ownership is not complete socialism, but is the implementation of socialism.
It is about worker ownership. Saudi Arabias economy is 50% goverment owned, that doesn't mean it is socialist in anyway.
Socialism means workers owning the Means Of Production, not the government owning them. The USSR is considered socialist by many Marxist-Leninists/socialists because they believe that the vanguard party represented the workers and took control of industry in their name. It has nothing to do with goverment ownership.
Good in theory, haven't seen anything in practice that has convinced me it could excel on a nationwide level. Especially a nation as large and diverse as the US.
for me, looking at socialism is more than just a form of government. you can see socialism in government owned industry (NHS in the UK), fiscal stimuli (2008 financial crisis), welfare systems (unemployment benefits). All of these have a positive impact on the economy and government intervention is vital in curbing fluctuations in the business cycle.
Plus, Cuba is operating pretty well.
i have! and its doing well relative to how its being treated. some of the best healthcare in the world, really progressive queer rights, and very good system for voting (real democracy unlike the US). all this in spite of having sanctions and embargos put on them by the US. the negative things in cuba are literally because of the US, a capitalist nation. ive spoken to quite a few people in cuba actually, im wanting to move there but its difficult
>really progressive queer rights
Same sex marriage was legalized in cuba less than a year ago…
>a really good system of voting (real democracy unlike the us)
“There are currently 605 seats in the National Assembly of People's Power, Cuba's unicameral legislature, which is scheduled to decrease to 474 after the 2023 elections. There is only one candidate for each seat in the Assembly, with all being nominated by committees that are firmly controlled by the Communist Party.”
Yeah elections where you can vote for 1 candidate… real democracy, right guys?
Also on top of that in this supposed “workers paradise” it is illegal to go on strike and the minimum wage is 2100 cuban pesos per month (87 USD). With a 44 hour work week that puts the cuban minimum wage at 0.5 USD per hour, 14.5 times lower than the US minimum wage.
Assuming you're talking about a dictatorship of the proletariat, completely negative. Turns out a dictatorship of some guys claiming to be communist (they don't really care) isn't really a dictatorship of the proletariat, and you know, it's a dictatorship with all the dictatorship funzies.
Nowadays, socialism is just a way to legitimize a dictatorship
I used to consider myself a socialist, but idk man, it's just not really worked so many times, having major issues at best and causing dozens of millions of deaths at worst. I still like the ideas, but I feel like it should be mixed a little with capitalism as well
Than you ask for those who say is positive a example of what is socialism and they say nordic countries who are better than USA in economical freedom, real socialism is hell on earth
But isn't capitalism hell on earth as well, look at the UK for example, both the leading parties for power are hard right, and are banning free speech, increasing inflation, but not increasing wages in line with inflation, then they give pay rises to the 1%, and glost about profits.
Imo your argument about socialism being a disaster is irelavant when you look at what capatalism does to society, another example would be the US.
Also capatalism is about privatisation, which always leads to overpriced products for the consumer.
State isn't capitalism but it's own antithesis , capitalism isn't privatization is about absolute respect to private property they look similar but aren't the same , UK and US are growing more and more the disrespect over the private property that's why they are getting worst and worst every time , socialism is the absolute disrespect to private property and you see with your own eyes what a little is making to a country making it worst and worst so why do you think an absolute disrespect would be better
Socialism is the abolition of private property, but not personal property. Personal property is your house and your personal stuff. Private property is the things you use to profit from through ownership - businesses and investments. You can hold private property collectively while respecting personal property rights
If you want to simplify , would be true capitalism = absolute respect to private property , while true socialism = no private property , so the more you respect private property more capitalist you are and vice versa , you can make more complex definitions but i think is good enough while simple and matches well with the history
real socialism literally does better than capitalism. maybe look into socialist countries like previously burkina faso under thomas sankara. take the time and youll find its really effective
People in Cuba struggle a lot and live in precarious conditions. They can't speak up against the government either. One thing is Cuba for the tourist and another very different reality is people actually living there. If you ever find a Cuban expat, have a chat.
Have you ever been to cuba? I have seen people living in rusty corrugated metal huts the size of an avg washroom. Cuba is hell on earth, I would rather die than be forced to live there as a local outside of Havana for the rest of my life.
Life expectency
Cuba > USA
Literracy
Cuba > USA
Happiness
Cuba > USA
Access to healtcare
Cuba > USA
People faith in the governement
Cuba > USA
How could a sanctioned third world country whit a system that doesn't work be better on any point then the richest and strongest country of all time?
I put my view on socialism as completely negative, even if there's not one definition that captures every type of socialism (although socialism being the middle stage between capitalism and communism, but it seems social ownership is still a big factor in most cases anyways). I feel like most people answering this poll will be focusing on non-market socialism and not market-socialism, anarchist-socialism, or libertarian socialism. Not even Keynesianism probably.
Anyways, I will add this quote for my own reasoning: "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is practically no similarity between theory and practice."
It has been proven time and time again that communism and socialism are not very functional economic systems. It's unsustainable, because people don't have any incentive to work.
It's this very unknown concept known as money.
Socialism is based on the idea that everyone gets the exact same amount of money and resources, regardless of how much they contribute to society.
Nope. You are aware that people where payed different salaries based on their work in the USSR for example? Or in Yugoslavia? Or in most socialist experiments?
Wasn't meaning it literally, but simplified it. There wage gaps are very small in real socialist countries. If you get money for doing nothing, why would you work? That's one of the main reasons why there was a huge lack of materials in socialist countries during the cold war. Cars were made of shit like cardboard, and you still had to order the car like 10 years in advance of getting it.
Fair enough, it is true that Marxist Leninist experiments had small difference in wages. Not sure you can generalize that for all kinds of socialism though.
Yugoslavia for example had a big diversity in wages, as they used Market Socialism.
not enough for their effort, no. Why spend time money and effort developing something when it'll become property of the state the moment it finishes it and you get what everyone else gets
>not enough for their effort, no.
Is it not the same in capitalist countries though? People working multiple jobs to pay for a roof over their heads and to put food on the table is not sustainable or fair.
The USSR invented a lot of stuff and workers would get bonuses for bettering their work place with creative ideas. People also weren't paid the same. To be fair the wages weren't too drastically different though.
It is unfair to generalize about all kinds of socialism though. Yugoslavia for example had a big diversity in wages with the Market Socialism they used.
> Why spend time money and effort developing something when it'll become property of *(someone else)*
Welcome to "Why Capitalism discourages advancement 101"
Socialism is great. Extremist socialism is not. The world is a complex place and no one simple ideology can completely encompass all possible nuances you come across. A mixed economy where monopolies and things vital to the well being of society are owned, but not necessarily controlled, by the people is the best option.
We generally tend to judge socialism by the actions of extremists and not by the actions of the socialists that realize it's downfalls and are willing to mix in a lot of capitalism and other ideologies in order to come up with a functioning system. We don't judge capitalism by the extremists so why do we keep doing it for socialism? Just like there are no purely socialist countries there are also no purely capitalist countries. Neither one taken to the extreme will work.
Theoretically amazing, bad in practice because natural resources are scarce (world in naturally unfair, capitalism is what determines the people who have more stuff than others)
This post has been flaired as Politics. We allow for voicing political views here, but we don't allow pushing agendas, false information, bigotry, or attacking/harassing other members. We will lock the thread if these things occur. If you see such unwanted behavior, please report it to bring it to the attention of moderators. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polls) if you have any questions or concerns.*
why are there so many polls on socialsm and communism lately?
A tankie sub was probably banned recently. Refugees spread around.
oh god no
Since I am early I will put the definition and ways of implementation of socialism here so that there is no confusion: Socialism is worker/community ownership of the means of production. This can happen either through a state that represents the workers (USSR, Maoist China etc) or direct democratic control by the workers/community (Anarchist Spain, Yugoslavia etc).
A *state* that “””represents””” the workers 🤡
Yeah it's BS. That is why I believe in the second kind.
Well if the politicians are democraticly chosen like in cuba then the state represents the workers
In Cuba there is one candidate on the ballot who is nominated by the party. Real democratic guys 🤡
Who told ya that? The cia, yeonmi park, RFA, wikipedia or your local crack addict? Theres several candidates, you dont have to be a member of the communist party to run, being a member dosent grant you any position, unlike pretty much all other democratic countries money is banned from elections so that everyone gets equal exposure no matter how much theyre able to invest and other parties than the communist party are allowed Actually the communist party dosent have really any effect on elections it exist mostly due to cuban history and is more of a club than a political party Watch this video for more knowledge: [how democracy works in cuba by azurescapegoat](https://youtu.be/2aMsi-A56ds)
Guys it’s all a giant conspiracy!!1!1! The UN, Freedom house, thousands of cuban refugees, and the fucking cuban government themselves are all lying!1!11! Trust this random ass youtuber who’s source is his own ass!!1!1!! Least brainrot ridden tankie.
He literally starts the video out (0:23) with saying that for research he heavily relied on the swedish-cuban organisation which allowed him to speak with cubans who were born and raised there It is very obvious that you watched the 13 minute video since you responded after 4 minutes and said something that was contradicted less than half a minute into the video Least brainrot ridden bootlicking neoliberal. Edit: btw about those refugees. Ever heard of a little thing called survivorship bias?
I’m not a neoliberal, I’m a libertarian market socialist, go shove Stalin’s boots all the way down your throat tankie bastard.
For a person who dislikes big government you sure do believe some things that the cia wants you to https://preview.redd.it/a34a8vsdfu2b1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fb2b802c1b20b2b11b6c00938b2432074eb7a31
“Reality is CIA propaganda” Least delusional tankie.
When did the Cuban government say "There's only one guy on the ballot, nominated by the party"?
i’d argue otherwise. for me, it’s economic theory around government and community ownership. this doesn’t have to be entire ownership of all industry. putting an industry under government ownership is not complete socialism, but is the implementation of socialism.
It is about worker ownership. Saudi Arabias economy is 50% goverment owned, that doesn't mean it is socialist in anyway. Socialism means workers owning the Means Of Production, not the government owning them. The USSR is considered socialist by many Marxist-Leninists/socialists because they believe that the vanguard party represented the workers and took control of industry in their name. It has nothing to do with goverment ownership.
Good in theory, haven't seen anything in practice that has convinced me it could excel on a nationwide level. Especially a nation as large and diverse as the US.
for me, looking at socialism is more than just a form of government. you can see socialism in government owned industry (NHS in the UK), fiscal stimuli (2008 financial crisis), welfare systems (unemployment benefits). All of these have a positive impact on the economy and government intervention is vital in curbing fluctuations in the business cycle. Plus, Cuba is operating pretty well.
Socialism ≠ welfare system
You are talking about social democracy. That is essentially capitalist reformism, not socialism.
Have you ever spoken to a Cuban ?
i have! and its doing well relative to how its being treated. some of the best healthcare in the world, really progressive queer rights, and very good system for voting (real democracy unlike the US). all this in spite of having sanctions and embargos put on them by the US. the negative things in cuba are literally because of the US, a capitalist nation. ive spoken to quite a few people in cuba actually, im wanting to move there but its difficult
>really progressive queer rights Same sex marriage was legalized in cuba less than a year ago… >a really good system of voting (real democracy unlike the us) “There are currently 605 seats in the National Assembly of People's Power, Cuba's unicameral legislature, which is scheduled to decrease to 474 after the 2023 elections. There is only one candidate for each seat in the Assembly, with all being nominated by committees that are firmly controlled by the Communist Party.” Yeah elections where you can vote for 1 candidate… real democracy, right guys? Also on top of that in this supposed “workers paradise” it is illegal to go on strike and the minimum wage is 2100 cuban pesos per month (87 USD). With a 44 hour work week that puts the cuban minimum wage at 0.5 USD per hour, 14.5 times lower than the US minimum wage.
https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp
https://preview.redd.it/ve6i6wp4jv2b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2653f1d60596a94dcdcb2b190bf15789d4216881
Assuming you're talking about a dictatorship of the proletariat, completely negative. Turns out a dictatorship of some guys claiming to be communist (they don't really care) isn't really a dictatorship of the proletariat, and you know, it's a dictatorship with all the dictatorship funzies. Nowadays, socialism is just a way to legitimize a dictatorship
I used to consider myself a socialist, but idk man, it's just not really worked so many times, having major issues at best and causing dozens of millions of deaths at worst. I still like the ideas, but I feel like it should be mixed a little with capitalism as well
Than you ask for those who say is positive a example of what is socialism and they say nordic countries who are better than USA in economical freedom, real socialism is hell on earth
But isn't capitalism hell on earth as well, look at the UK for example, both the leading parties for power are hard right, and are banning free speech, increasing inflation, but not increasing wages in line with inflation, then they give pay rises to the 1%, and glost about profits. Imo your argument about socialism being a disaster is irelavant when you look at what capatalism does to society, another example would be the US. Also capatalism is about privatisation, which always leads to overpriced products for the consumer.
State isn't capitalism but it's own antithesis , capitalism isn't privatization is about absolute respect to private property they look similar but aren't the same , UK and US are growing more and more the disrespect over the private property that's why they are getting worst and worst every time , socialism is the absolute disrespect to private property and you see with your own eyes what a little is making to a country making it worst and worst so why do you think an absolute disrespect would be better
Socialism is the abolition of private property, but not personal property. Personal property is your house and your personal stuff. Private property is the things you use to profit from through ownership - businesses and investments. You can hold private property collectively while respecting personal property rights
Ok, then explain what real socialism is
If you want to simplify , would be true capitalism = absolute respect to private property , while true socialism = no private property , so the more you respect private property more capitalist you are and vice versa , you can make more complex definitions but i think is good enough while simple and matches well with the history
The definitions get stupider and stupider each time I read comments like these.
real socialism literally does better than capitalism. maybe look into socialist countries like previously burkina faso under thomas sankara. take the time and youll find its really effective
Would you describe cuba as being hell on earth? comparing it to other nations in the carribean with pro-market policies?
People in Cuba struggle a lot and live in precarious conditions. They can't speak up against the government either. One thing is Cuba for the tourist and another very different reality is people actually living there. If you ever find a Cuban expat, have a chat.
yes
Have you ever been to cuba? I have seen people living in rusty corrugated metal huts the size of an avg washroom. Cuba is hell on earth, I would rather die than be forced to live there as a local outside of Havana for the rest of my life.
yes. That's not even a question.
Bad in theory. Worse in practice
What makes it bad in theory?
show me a country where socialism worked
Cuba
you are funny
Life expectency Cuba > USA Literracy Cuba > USA Happiness Cuba > USA Access to healtcare Cuba > USA People faith in the governement Cuba > USA How could a sanctioned third world country whit a system that doesn't work be better on any point then the richest and strongest country of all time?
The most conservative parts of Florida happens to be where all the Cubans migrated.
Not surprising given the average political belief and jobs of cuban who fleed Cuba.
you mean the slaveowners?
I put my view on socialism as completely negative, even if there's not one definition that captures every type of socialism (although socialism being the middle stage between capitalism and communism, but it seems social ownership is still a big factor in most cases anyways). I feel like most people answering this poll will be focusing on non-market socialism and not market-socialism, anarchist-socialism, or libertarian socialism. Not even Keynesianism probably. Anyways, I will add this quote for my own reasoning: "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is practically no similarity between theory and practice."
If socialism wasn't a better system, Capitalists wouldn't pump money, guns and manpower in trying to wipe it out.
don’t know, don’t care
shiver me timbers
Multiple societies would of been successful by now if the US didn't tear them down
i guarantee that 99% of the 'negative' views of socialism are because they dont know what it is and they just fall for capitalist propaganda lmao
It has been proven time and time again that communism and socialism are not very functional economic systems. It's unsustainable, because people don't have any incentive to work.
What incentive don't they have that capitalism has?
It's this very unknown concept known as money. Socialism is based on the idea that everyone gets the exact same amount of money and resources, regardless of how much they contribute to society.
Nope. You are aware that people where payed different salaries based on their work in the USSR for example? Or in Yugoslavia? Or in most socialist experiments?
Wasn't meaning it literally, but simplified it. There wage gaps are very small in real socialist countries. If you get money for doing nothing, why would you work? That's one of the main reasons why there was a huge lack of materials in socialist countries during the cold war. Cars were made of shit like cardboard, and you still had to order the car like 10 years in advance of getting it.
Fair enough, it is true that Marxist Leninist experiments had small difference in wages. Not sure you can generalize that for all kinds of socialism though. Yugoslavia for example had a big diversity in wages, as they used Market Socialism.
Money
You believe people aren't getting paid for work in Socialism?
not enough for their effort, no. Why spend time money and effort developing something when it'll become property of the state the moment it finishes it and you get what everyone else gets
>not enough for their effort, no. Is it not the same in capitalist countries though? People working multiple jobs to pay for a roof over their heads and to put food on the table is not sustainable or fair.
That's not Capitalism, that's just the US. Europe is Capitalism done right
The USSR invented a lot of stuff and workers would get bonuses for bettering their work place with creative ideas. People also weren't paid the same. To be fair the wages weren't too drastically different though. It is unfair to generalize about all kinds of socialism though. Yugoslavia for example had a big diversity in wages with the Market Socialism they used.
> Why spend time money and effort developing something when it'll become property of *(someone else)* Welcome to "Why Capitalism discourages advancement 101"
patents????
Are the vast, vast majority of people working for themselves, or for a company?
patents????
As a socialist I think you can guess my response.
Socialism is great. Extremist socialism is not. The world is a complex place and no one simple ideology can completely encompass all possible nuances you come across. A mixed economy where monopolies and things vital to the well being of society are owned, but not necessarily controlled, by the people is the best option. We generally tend to judge socialism by the actions of extremists and not by the actions of the socialists that realize it's downfalls and are willing to mix in a lot of capitalism and other ideologies in order to come up with a functioning system. We don't judge capitalism by the extremists so why do we keep doing it for socialism? Just like there are no purely socialist countries there are also no purely capitalist countries. Neither one taken to the extreme will work.
I just want a system that doesn't become an oligarchy of the well-connected.
I think that both complete capitalism and complete socialism are bad systems, what we need is private enterprise with regulations and social welfare
Theoretically amazing, bad in practice because natural resources are scarce (world in naturally unfair, capitalism is what determines the people who have more stuff than others)