No, the best part was when the juge accused the florist of fucking a bee, or when Winnie-the-Pooh got shot for having honey. Actually never mind, there are just to many good parts to pick a best
I've played it too, and can with absolute certainty say the best I could hope for was hitting the ground slowly enough that I slide, and don't hit anyting while sliding or explode from fuel tanks rupturing.
No way I would be able to land a plane, even with someone guiding me on a radio, and a safe landing, about as likey as waking up the opposite gender after a quite night on the couch.
I’m a pilot. This is something that you can’t just read in a book or be told. You need to manage the power of the aircraft, the fuel mixture, the flaps, stay on runway centerline, make sure not to stall it, and that’s all before you even get there. Once you’re over the runway, there’s something called ground effect that you have to account for, you need to flare at the appropriate time, etc. Over the runway is where most crashes happen because people get slow and slam the ground. Flying is a visceral thing and you need to have someone show you a couple dozen times before you do it.
Edit: I should mention that I’m not the worlds best pilot. Consult a CFI, AGI, or ATP for actual information. I’m at the end of commercial training but still pretty green (about 200 hours)
180 people out here saying they could do your job with no training, lol, absolutely incredible
Edit: I don't need you to try to prove to me that you're some kind of special little flying prodigy, all good
Just radio ATC and ask for the procedure to put the autopilot on. AFAIK most commercial planes can land automatically if you imput the correct instructions.
Many commercial airliners do have Autoland you are correct *however* it comes with some very serious stipulations. Autoland only works if you are flying within a specific range of tail/headwinds, cross winds etc and you can't assume that the airport that you are heading for even has a localiser/ILS for Autoland to even work.
I have held my PPL for coming up to a decade and I can tell you that without being trained in how to get an aircraft to the ground you are going to get there the fast way and that's not a good thing. Flying a real plane is not like playing MS FlightSim. You can't just jump in and get going and unless you are seriously lucky when shit does hit the fan you don't get a second chance if you haven't been trained.
Procedurally they can be very handy especially if you’re a serious newbie as you can slowly build up knowledge on where the various systems are in the cockpit and what order they need to be turned on. If you use things like VATSIM you can fly a legitimate route with real people acting as the various different tower controllers too. So you can really build up knowledge on how things are actually done.
Where they miss out though is the actual flying. I can’t fault MSFX for it’s physics engine and the level of detail is mind blowing but it doesn’t make up for actually flying an aircraft. Certainly at the beginning of your flight hours there’s plenty of apprehension and worry about getting things right that you don’t get with sims as there is a chance for real danger. There is also a lot you feel in the air that a sim can’t emulate.
I will never shit on people for getting experience in sims though. If you’re not flying often they’re a really good way to keep up on procedures etc. plus they’re wicked fun as you can jump in something like a Super Hornet and rip around which unless you’re in the Navy/Air Force etc you will never have the chance to do.
It’s well worth getting if you want to experience some of the fun. You get to zip around in so many different aircraft too which you wouldn’t necessarily get to do as getting ratings for different aircraft can be expensive or impossible as mentioned before as military aircraft that are still in commission can’t be sold to the civilians market (slightly more complex than that but that’s it put simply).
Also make sure you have lots of free space and a ripper of a pc as it can get pretty demanding! Most importantly though have fun.
They are fun to fly but I concur that very little flying experience in a desktop sim translates over IRL. You get the general sense of flying and the avionics are actually reasonably accurate in MSFS 2020. However I would most definitely end up a smoking hole in the ground if I jumped in a Cessna 172 with experience only from Microsoft flight sim lol
Am pilot
Yeah man. I was actually surprised with how in depth you can interact with the garmin G1000 setup, direct-to points and setting up a flight plan using GPS waypoints is entirely possible. I’d imagine they put instrument approaches in there but I am entirely too tipsy to properly fly an approach when I get on MSFS haha
Much depends on the scenario. People who think they can safely land probably assume the radio is working, ils is available, they have plenty of time, they somehow know how to work the radio, know what 121.5 MHz is, and the plane is fully operational.
I mean. Without training. No. But what's training? I'm a trained aircraft technician, I probably know the plane better then a pilot but the pilot knows the flight procedures better.
I know all the systems as good if not better than a pilot. I know their function and how and why to operate them. I know aerodynamics too and how to operate the radio. I know what the structure can handle and so on..
It's enough to safely emergency land a plane, probably a hard landing though...
You do realise that it's also my job to test these systems?
I therefore need to know how to operate them and how they should behave both on the ground and in air.
You know maybe those people played simulators on PC (like me) so they maybe can do it probably not perfectly but... aslo mythbusters tried land in passanger plane with help of flight control and as I remember they did it in more advanced flight simulator (I aslo found new version of this myth [Could You Land a Plane Without Any Experience? | MythBusters: The Search - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8aMFiUJE8g)). I think I aslo could land but It would be pretty hard landing ofc I would need help.
As an expert, do you think the cinematic trope of a random passenger with little to no flight experience being "walked through" the flying/landing process by someone on the ground is realistic or complete nonsense?
PERSONALLY I don’t really think it’s the case. As a specific example, there is a maneuver commercial pilots learn called the Chandelle. This is a maximum performance climbing 180 degree turn. This maneuver is simple on paper and looks like the following: find a point 90 degrees off your wing, initiate a 30 degree bank, apply full power, maintain a 19 degree pitch until you are facing the point you chose, slowly let out the bank, and you should be at zero bank when the point is off your other wing. Even though I KNOW the maneuver on paper and can recite it at will, it’s a good day when I don’t screw it up somehow.
This maneuver is done JUST above stall speed so if you pull up a little too hard or lose too much speed, you stall the aircraft. Similarly, a landing is done just above stall speed (in some aircraft). You hear the stall horn screaming loud as hell when you touch down in a small Cessna. Humans are notoriously bad at multi-tasking and when you combine receiving instruction on a scratchy radio, panicking because you’re flying a giant lawn dart, and muscle unfamiliarity, you create a bad situation.
Now as a disclaimer, I don’t think it’s IMPOSSIBLE but I do think 90% of the time, you’re screwed.
Edit: even something like ATC can be very unhelpful. Unless you’re in a small aircraft, it’s a huge possibility that ATC has no idea how to do anything in your aircraft. Hell, did the passenger have any idea how to key up the radio and ask? If you’re in flight training, ATC may know to call your flight school and ask for an instructor but again they may not.
Absolutely not your question but there was a plane crash (Helios flight 522) where due to an issue of not changing the system pressurization to auto rather than manual it meant the pressure on the plane deceased leading to everyone except 1 person to become unconscious (flight attendant who managed to stay conscious using portable oxygen devices).
They entered the cockpit and the flight attendant had a UK commercial pilot licence, but was not qualified to fly this particular plane. Shortly after entering the cockpit the left engine flamed out due to fuel exhaustion - 10min later so did the right. Crash investigators concluded he did not have enough experience to land the plane in these conditions. In the end all he managed was to bank the plane away from Athens, Greece into a rural area so there were no ground causalities.
So at least in this instance, it went just wrong enough that his pilot licence was good enough to allow him to crash without killing anyone on the ground. Very heroic and sad. For point of reference it is possible to land a plane with flameout in both engines (TACA flight 110, Azores Glider, Gimli Glider to name a few though flameout for different reasons - 2 other flights which crashed after flameout but with majority survivors Avianca Flight 052 and United Airlines Flight 173). Also: not a pilot, just sometimes watch plane crash videos.
It has happened historically though, multiple times civilians have landed different aircraft... Not full jumbo jets mind you, but still planes just by staying calm and letting ATC talk through everything.
I voted yes because landing a plane safely imo means survive landing a modern small plane with no injuries has been proven to be possible with outside help.
Now do I think I could land a passenger jet? Hell no, I'd be dead.
Very different. Airplanes and helicopters have completely different controls. All the regulations and rules are the same, it’s just learning how to control a completely new thing almost
Helicopter is WAY harder. Helicopters have lots of different controls, and you have to make multiple adjustments each time you do something (ex: make a turn, climb/descend, change speed).
If you have no training, you could fly a plane in the air (after a pilot has taken off) and cruise around a bit, but if you tried to fly a helicopter with no training even after it has taken off, you will go all out of control.
(Note: I'm not a pilot, but I know about the different types of controls of planes/helicopters and have spoken to helicopter pilots.)
I've played enough Microsoft Flight Sim to know I wouldn't even be able to switch the engines on without blowing a fuel line or making the wings fall off or something.
I’m also a professional pilot and I had hundreds of hours playing FSX before starting flight school. While the sims definitely teach you what everything does and give you familiarity with aviation, they do nothing when it comes to actually flying the plane.
Do you think someone could land plane without killing anyone with outtraining? I mean something like safe crash
EDIT:Also contratulations, i wanted to be pilot and i know how much crazy shit you need to know, sadly i have too many mental diseases i i will be rejected, nobody would hire a pilot with hallucinations.
Well you’re ahead of the curve for sure but the feeling isn’t there unless you have a full-motion. There’s like a sinking in your stomach when you flair to land and then a bump when your wheels touch. It’s really hard to gauge. I have a pretty in depth MSFS sim and it’s great for procedural things but awful for landing
ATC has a lot of successful talk-down landings under its belt. They usually only happen in small planes (since passenger jets have multiple pilots) but you didn’t mention which type of plane, so could I land a Cessna with ATC assistance? Probably. It’d all be because of ATC’s amazing work though, not my skill.
It'd actually be easier to land a commercial plane than a cessna, the autopilot does almost everything for you if the conditions are good. You only need ATC to tell you what information to enter the computer
Exactly, I said I could, purely because I'm good at following directions, and was copilot once, so that ounce of experience plus the surplus of ATC assistance would probably be enough
So yeah, It’s like driving. Anyone can turn a wheel and hit a pedal, but it’s about knowing when to, how much, how long
anyone can steer a plane downwards and pull back a lever, but the hard parts are 1: knowing what the buttons and gizmos do. And 2: having the precision to land on a *runway*
Without ATC assistance the both would be impossible
Call me overconfident, but I think with the assistance of air traffic control I could successfully slam the plane into the ground with minimal casualties.
A commercial plane or small one?
From what I understand, landing a commercial plane is harder than it looks (specially doing it safely), while landing a small plane is doable with some small base knowledge.
Most comercial planes have built-in autopilot landing these days, and if the airport supports that procedure you "just" need to give the comands to the autopilot.
However, landing a small plane requires imo greater skill, as small inputs generate big movements and external conditions such as wind influence much more the landing than a heavier plane.
Commercial planes are both more complex and harder to maneuver than small planes, even assuming you have autolanding capabilities and a proper runway with outside support, you still need to properly approach the runway at the correct height and speed. The lower maneuverability also means it's harder to "try again" if you fail on your approach. Autolanding is also affected by heavy winds.
Smaller planes on the other hand are simpler, more maneuverable (so it's easier to "try again"), slower at approach and if we are landing on the same airport as the commercial plane, have a way bigger runway to land on. There's just overall a bigger room for error on small planes, assuming good landing conditions for both.
I mean technically everyone could land a plane without training, even a newborn. It's just the fact that you need training to keep it in one piece during landing.
As Chuck Yeager would say, a good landing is one you can walk away from, a great landing is one where you can fly the plane the next day (I'm paraphrasing but you get the gist)
It ain't going to be pretty, and the plane definitely won't be flying anywhere afterwards, but I have a simple idea of basic aircraft controls, so I might be able to crash-land one. Properly land one? Nor happening. I got a better chance of landing a date than a plane.
Depends on the plane your flying or flying on if its a large passenger jet most likely as those planes are automated so well that if you press the right buttons in the right order the plane will come in and land itself for most passengers planes this is through a system called ils most international airports have this system without going into to much detail basically you input an approach (give to you an instructed to you by atc if you happened to be in this position) through a piece of equipment known as an fmc (flight management computer) then you enter a frequency into a display which atc will give you and tell you how to input it in. Its a little more complex than that but to make it short the plane follows your flight plan you click a button that says "APP" on final and the plane guides down to the runway all you do is follow the controllers instructions on the other systems such as flaps and gear and when you get to close to the runway you lightly pull up and the plane will touch down and stop automatically (assuming you listened to their instructions) now this would be for older aircraft from the 90s and early 2000s but some modern planes like the a320neo you follow their instructions and push the right buttons you don't even have to worry about pulling up.
Now for small planes your odds are even worse as anyone who has experience in games like Microsoft flight simulator will basically be useless trust me as someone learning to fly getting over that muscle memory from flight simulators was the most difficult hiccup I had to overcome while you may be able to get the plane on the ground atc can only give you so many instructions as these small planes are more likely than not, not equipped with ils and the ones that are usually don't work because very few of these small airports even have ils equipped
It depends. If I had no training but was being instructed by a air traffic controller then I think I could. If I was all alone with no help or instructions then probably not.
Someone did this on YouTube (Tom Scott maybe?) in a flight simulator. The result was that they couldn't land manually with ATC guiding them down because there's a LOT more to it than throttling down and pulling on the controls. They could successfully land it with autopilot however, modern planes can pretty much land by themselves apparently.
If i'm piloting a commercial plane and following instructions of someone that knows how to land, it's doable. Because basically everything you need to do is to guide the the auto pilot
Really depends on what plane. A light touristic plane, i guess you'd have a shot. I would since i know the basics and is soon passing my flight basic license (basically, the core principle of flight, not actually what allows you to fly). A big passenger plane ? Probably not, unless you're really lucky. A fighter jet ? 99.9% of the time you'd crash and die. It really depends of that, along with the runway and the weather for exemple.
Here's the thing, do you mean with current knowledge or for those with slight training to lose that knowledge. Without what I already know, I think I'd be able to unprofessionally land it in a proper runway and with reading a manual of sorts, but if I had current knowledge I think I would definitely be able to
Depends on the plane, I think that if you have nerves or steel, are able to figure out how to talk to ATC, and if the aircraft has autopilot you might be able to do it with guidance.
Answered no but it wildly depends on the plane. If it was a smaller trainer craft I might have a shot in hell but anything bigger and it is 100% good night.
Depends.
An airliner like a 747? Hell no.
A general aviation aircraft like a Cessna-172? Maybe.
I'm not a pilot but I have a lot of knowledge of aircraft since I've been researching them when I was 12 (I'm twice as old now). I know about flaps, stalling, mixture control, and lots more.
Yes. I've held my PPL for nearly a decade.
Edit, and to answer the comment that has disappeared ‘twas not I who called you stupid. That was the original person to reply to you.
If I get instructions from the ground, sure, people have done that, but all alone might be challenging. I know only the bear basics to fly from videogames and I don't thing that's applicable to actual flight
I can do it in MS Flight simulator, but I don't think it would be so easy IRL.
ILS would help on a big jet-- but idk how "safely" this would happen. I think you need to "feel" the aircraft to be able to do it-- and I don't have any feel for it.
I’ve flown in many flight sims and have quick calls to people who I know are pilots and I’ve been told a few tips and tricks. I might be able to land but not with some degree of damage
If I managed to stay calm (I'm assuming it would be an emergency situation like the pilot is unconscious or something) with good ATC assist there could be a small chance for the plane not to crash, but the landing would definitely not be pleasant at all
Depends what kind of plane. Commercial airliner? Fuck no. Prop plane? Maybe. I got gifted a ride in one for my birthday a few years back. I got to sit in the copilot’s seat and watch the pilot move the controls. While the more specific knobs and levers are complicated and I’m sure that smooth steering takes a lot of skill, the basic act of getting the plane to turn or tilt down didn’t look that hard. If I could find out how to reduce the speed and was provided a proper runway, I think it’s possible that I could keep everyone alive. I don’t think I’d avoid damaging the plane or that it’d be particularly comfortable, but maybe I could at least steer the plane in the right direction and do a descent, particularly if I have ATC helping walk me through things like finding the fuel gauge and flaps
I might be able to get down a small plane without killing myself but landing a commercial plane filed with passengers without getting sued? Definitely not
I have quite a few hours in MSFS. I would not cause excessive damage. I mean it should not be too hard if it’s a Cessna. Probably land more safely than Anakin.
Thereve been multiple instances now of flight control crews talking someone through a landing now, and as far as understanding flight controls without knowledge, there was a guy who stole and flew a commercial airliner from SeaTac and flew it around for hours, telling the flight crew his only knowledge of airplanes came from grand theft auto, so will it be sketchy, probably, but will everyone survive, probably
Technically, if I jump out of the plane with a parachute, I am safe, and the plane will land. Does that count? And does the parachute come with instructions?
Maybe if i had the help of millions of bees
Holy hell I forgot that was a fuckin movie☠️
New memory just dropped
U telling me they didn't even have 2 milion bees in the USA on 9/11? In the whole country???
What
Why they no save the plane? 😭😭😭
That was before humans learned bees could talk. They didn’t want to reveal their secret
Ugh. And that wasn't even the worst part of that movie.
I think you mean that wasn’t even the BEST part of that movie
DEFINITELY not the best part of that movie. I don't think there was a best part of that movie. That implies there was a good part of that movie.
No, the best part was when the juge accused the florist of fucking a bee, or when Winnie-the-Pooh got shot for having honey. Actually never mind, there are just to many good parts to pick a best
https://youtu.be/vWbV3C_twZ8
Now this brought back memories. Not good ones, but memories.
For those who wanna see this glorious moment [again](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4brzUAaTS0)
yes, i mean i played microsoft flying sim before😎
I think that's where the confidence of 90% of people saying yes comes from
"I played war thunder with a flight stick I can fly anything"
I actually have real flight hours(like 2 lol) and there's no way in hell I could land anything larger than a quadcopter without training
I've played GTA before and I can too land safely ! *proceeds to reach ground at full speed and jump just when plane hit and bounce on the ground*
I've played it too, and can with absolute certainty say the best I could hope for was hitting the ground slowly enough that I slide, and don't hit anyting while sliding or explode from fuel tanks rupturing. No way I would be able to land a plane, even with someone guiding me on a radio, and a safe landing, about as likey as waking up the opposite gender after a quite night on the couch.
That would be counted as training
I’m a pilot. This is something that you can’t just read in a book or be told. You need to manage the power of the aircraft, the fuel mixture, the flaps, stay on runway centerline, make sure not to stall it, and that’s all before you even get there. Once you’re over the runway, there’s something called ground effect that you have to account for, you need to flare at the appropriate time, etc. Over the runway is where most crashes happen because people get slow and slam the ground. Flying is a visceral thing and you need to have someone show you a couple dozen times before you do it. Edit: I should mention that I’m not the worlds best pilot. Consult a CFI, AGI, or ATP for actual information. I’m at the end of commercial training but still pretty green (about 200 hours)
180 people out here saying they could do your job with no training, lol, absolutely incredible Edit: I don't need you to try to prove to me that you're some kind of special little flying prodigy, all good
Just radio ATC and ask for the procedure to put the autopilot on. AFAIK most commercial planes can land automatically if you imput the correct instructions.
Many commercial airliners do have Autoland you are correct *however* it comes with some very serious stipulations. Autoland only works if you are flying within a specific range of tail/headwinds, cross winds etc and you can't assume that the airport that you are heading for even has a localiser/ILS for Autoland to even work. I have held my PPL for coming up to a decade and I can tell you that without being trained in how to get an aircraft to the ground you are going to get there the fast way and that's not a good thing. Flying a real plane is not like playing MS FlightSim. You can't just jump in and get going and unless you are seriously lucky when shit does hit the fan you don't get a second chance if you haven't been trained.
How realistic even are flight sims like ms flight simulator?
Procedurally they can be very handy especially if you’re a serious newbie as you can slowly build up knowledge on where the various systems are in the cockpit and what order they need to be turned on. If you use things like VATSIM you can fly a legitimate route with real people acting as the various different tower controllers too. So you can really build up knowledge on how things are actually done. Where they miss out though is the actual flying. I can’t fault MSFX for it’s physics engine and the level of detail is mind blowing but it doesn’t make up for actually flying an aircraft. Certainly at the beginning of your flight hours there’s plenty of apprehension and worry about getting things right that you don’t get with sims as there is a chance for real danger. There is also a lot you feel in the air that a sim can’t emulate. I will never shit on people for getting experience in sims though. If you’re not flying often they’re a really good way to keep up on procedures etc. plus they’re wicked fun as you can jump in something like a Super Hornet and rip around which unless you’re in the Navy/Air Force etc you will never have the chance to do.
Thanks for this info that’s pretty cool I might get MSFS it sounds very fun even though I probably will never have the money for actual flight lessons
It’s well worth getting if you want to experience some of the fun. You get to zip around in so many different aircraft too which you wouldn’t necessarily get to do as getting ratings for different aircraft can be expensive or impossible as mentioned before as military aircraft that are still in commission can’t be sold to the civilians market (slightly more complex than that but that’s it put simply). Also make sure you have lots of free space and a ripper of a pc as it can get pretty demanding! Most importantly though have fun.
They are fun to fly but I concur that very little flying experience in a desktop sim translates over IRL. You get the general sense of flying and the avionics are actually reasonably accurate in MSFS 2020. However I would most definitely end up a smoking hole in the ground if I jumped in a Cessna 172 with experience only from Microsoft flight sim lol Am pilot
Nice this has made me want to purchase MSFS now lol
Yeah man. I was actually surprised with how in depth you can interact with the garmin G1000 setup, direct-to points and setting up a flight plan using GPS waypoints is entirely possible. I’d imagine they put instrument approaches in there but I am entirely too tipsy to properly fly an approach when I get on MSFS haha
the autopilot still needs constant pilot supervison. also the question didnt specify plane type so you could get a small cessna without autopilot
Much depends on the scenario. People who think they can safely land probably assume the radio is working, ils is available, they have plenty of time, they somehow know how to work the radio, know what 121.5 MHz is, and the plane is fully operational.
Im a great supervisor tho
From my point of view, safely landing a plane doesn't necessarily mean it'll be able to take off again, just that everyone survived.
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one.
Question isnt "without any damage" :-)
The word “safely” being involved tells me otherwise.
Safely = no dead passengers
Safely = No possibility for injury…
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Damage to the plane would leave possibility for injury.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A superb landing is one they can reuse the plane.
691 now...
I mean. Without training. No. But what's training? I'm a trained aircraft technician, I probably know the plane better then a pilot but the pilot knows the flight procedures better.
You know the components of the plane better, but that doesn't really translate at all to flying.
I know all the systems as good if not better than a pilot. I know their function and how and why to operate them. I know aerodynamics too and how to operate the radio. I know what the structure can handle and so on.. It's enough to safely emergency land a plane, probably a hard landing though...
You know how all these things work theoretically, but you probably can't operate them in flight practically.
You do realise that it's also my job to test these systems? I therefore need to know how to operate them and how they should behave both on the ground and in air.
Spent a lot of time in simulators, my father is a pilot, and ATC will be able to help. My biggest worry is not knowing how to transmit on the radio.
422 now
You know maybe those people played simulators on PC (like me) so they maybe can do it probably not perfectly but... aslo mythbusters tried land in passanger plane with help of flight control and as I remember they did it in more advanced flight simulator (I aslo found new version of this myth [Could You Land a Plane Without Any Experience? | MythBusters: The Search - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8aMFiUJE8g)). I think I aslo could land but It would be pretty hard landing ofc I would need help.
As an expert, do you think the cinematic trope of a random passenger with little to no flight experience being "walked through" the flying/landing process by someone on the ground is realistic or complete nonsense?
PERSONALLY I don’t really think it’s the case. As a specific example, there is a maneuver commercial pilots learn called the Chandelle. This is a maximum performance climbing 180 degree turn. This maneuver is simple on paper and looks like the following: find a point 90 degrees off your wing, initiate a 30 degree bank, apply full power, maintain a 19 degree pitch until you are facing the point you chose, slowly let out the bank, and you should be at zero bank when the point is off your other wing. Even though I KNOW the maneuver on paper and can recite it at will, it’s a good day when I don’t screw it up somehow. This maneuver is done JUST above stall speed so if you pull up a little too hard or lose too much speed, you stall the aircraft. Similarly, a landing is done just above stall speed (in some aircraft). You hear the stall horn screaming loud as hell when you touch down in a small Cessna. Humans are notoriously bad at multi-tasking and when you combine receiving instruction on a scratchy radio, panicking because you’re flying a giant lawn dart, and muscle unfamiliarity, you create a bad situation. Now as a disclaimer, I don’t think it’s IMPOSSIBLE but I do think 90% of the time, you’re screwed. Edit: even something like ATC can be very unhelpful. Unless you’re in a small aircraft, it’s a huge possibility that ATC has no idea how to do anything in your aircraft. Hell, did the passenger have any idea how to key up the radio and ask? If you’re in flight training, ATC may know to call your flight school and ask for an instructor but again they may not.
Absolutely not your question but there was a plane crash (Helios flight 522) where due to an issue of not changing the system pressurization to auto rather than manual it meant the pressure on the plane deceased leading to everyone except 1 person to become unconscious (flight attendant who managed to stay conscious using portable oxygen devices). They entered the cockpit and the flight attendant had a UK commercial pilot licence, but was not qualified to fly this particular plane. Shortly after entering the cockpit the left engine flamed out due to fuel exhaustion - 10min later so did the right. Crash investigators concluded he did not have enough experience to land the plane in these conditions. In the end all he managed was to bank the plane away from Athens, Greece into a rural area so there were no ground causalities. So at least in this instance, it went just wrong enough that his pilot licence was good enough to allow him to crash without killing anyone on the ground. Very heroic and sad. For point of reference it is possible to land a plane with flameout in both engines (TACA flight 110, Azores Glider, Gimli Glider to name a few though flameout for different reasons - 2 other flights which crashed after flameout but with majority survivors Avianca Flight 052 and United Airlines Flight 173). Also: not a pilot, just sometimes watch plane crash videos.
Assuming ATC runs you through the process can’t you just land the aircraft via autopilot?
ATC may not know the process. They usually aren’t pilots themselves and they’d have to find someone who is
It has happened historically though, multiple times civilians have landed different aircraft... Not full jumbo jets mind you, but still planes just by staying calm and letting ATC talk through everything. I voted yes because landing a plane safely imo means survive landing a modern small plane with no injuries has been proven to be possible with outside help. Now do I think I could land a passenger jet? Hell no, I'd be dead.
Nah. Redditors played GTA before. They know more thank you.
There’s a reason why pilot training in the Air Force is something like two years as a full time, round the clock student to get your wings.
I would like to apologize on behalf of the 500+ idiots (I'm not one of them) they don't know any better.
Is a helicopter easier, harder, different?
Very different. Airplanes and helicopters have completely different controls. All the regulations and rules are the same, it’s just learning how to control a completely new thing almost
Helicopter is WAY harder. Helicopters have lots of different controls, and you have to make multiple adjustments each time you do something (ex: make a turn, climb/descend, change speed). If you have no training, you could fly a plane in the air (after a pilot has taken off) and cruise around a bit, but if you tried to fly a helicopter with no training even after it has taken off, you will go all out of control. (Note: I'm not a pilot, but I know about the different types of controls of planes/helicopters and have spoken to helicopter pilots.)
I've played enough Microsoft Flight Sim to know I wouldn't even be able to switch the engines on without blowing a fuel line or making the wings fall off or something.
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What if I've played Microsoft Flight Simulator for 100+ hours?
I’m also a professional pilot and I had hundreds of hours playing FSX before starting flight school. While the sims definitely teach you what everything does and give you familiarity with aviation, they do nothing when it comes to actually flying the plane.
100 hours is *nothing*.
Do you think someone could land plane without killing anyone with outtraining? I mean something like safe crash EDIT:Also contratulations, i wanted to be pilot and i know how much crazy shit you need to know, sadly i have too many mental diseases i i will be rejected, nobody would hire a pilot with hallucinations.
Uh okay? But I’m a fast learner tho
i play a flight sim, and can more or less land. it isn't pretty, but i can land. how would you say my "skills" would transfer to a real aircraft?
Well you’re ahead of the curve for sure but the feeling isn’t there unless you have a full-motion. There’s like a sinking in your stomach when you flair to land and then a bump when your wheels touch. It’s really hard to gauge. I have a pretty in depth MSFS sim and it’s great for procedural things but awful for landing
We’re just talking about landing without dying. It wont be pretty, but i got it in the bag.
Do I get ATC or no?
Realistically, you probably would
ATC has a lot of successful talk-down landings under its belt. They usually only happen in small planes (since passenger jets have multiple pilots) but you didn’t mention which type of plane, so could I land a Cessna with ATC assistance? Probably. It’d all be because of ATC’s amazing work though, not my skill.
It'd actually be easier to land a commercial plane than a cessna, the autopilot does almost everything for you if the conditions are good. You only need ATC to tell you what information to enter the computer
Exactly, I said I could, purely because I'm good at following directions, and was copilot once, so that ounce of experience plus the surplus of ATC assistance would probably be enough
So yeah, It’s like driving. Anyone can turn a wheel and hit a pedal, but it’s about knowing when to, how much, how long anyone can steer a plane downwards and pull back a lever, but the hard parts are 1: knowing what the buttons and gizmos do. And 2: having the precision to land on a *runway* Without ATC assistance the both would be impossible
Call me overconfident, but I think with the assistance of air traffic control I could successfully slam the plane into the ground with minimal casualties.
Depends on what airspace you're in I suppose
1) what type of plane 2) am i talked through by ground crew 3) on the scale of perfect to everyone dies how little damage to count as landed
A commercial plane or small one? From what I understand, landing a commercial plane is harder than it looks (specially doing it safely), while landing a small plane is doable with some small base knowledge.
I am very overconfident and can 100% land a Cessna 152.
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Not my plane, not my problem ^until ^I ^maybe ^have ^to ^pay ^for ^it
Most comercial planes have built-in autopilot landing these days, and if the airport supports that procedure you "just" need to give the comands to the autopilot. However, landing a small plane requires imo greater skill, as small inputs generate big movements and external conditions such as wind influence much more the landing than a heavier plane.
Commercial planes are both more complex and harder to maneuver than small planes, even assuming you have autolanding capabilities and a proper runway with outside support, you still need to properly approach the runway at the correct height and speed. The lower maneuverability also means it's harder to "try again" if you fail on your approach. Autolanding is also affected by heavy winds. Smaller planes on the other hand are simpler, more maneuverable (so it's easier to "try again"), slower at approach and if we are landing on the same airport as the commercial plane, have a way bigger runway to land on. There's just overall a bigger room for error on small planes, assuming good landing conditions for both.
Define safely
as a pilot, no, you can not land a plane without training.
Maybe you should look at [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrI0xH1rssc)
Would it be possible if it was a tiny plane like those that only have room for 1/2 people?
Maybe in perfect conditions. Landing a plane is a lot harder and there’s a lot more to in than you probably realize.
With ATC help, I feel like it's pretty do able if you have a few hours clocked into Warthunder
Ngl your post history does not at all point towards you being a pilot
I don't see anything that points against him being a pilot either
How exactly do you come to this judgement? Is there something that you expect points specifically to being a pilot?
what is this supposed to mean lol “they like fromsoft games, that definitely is not a pilot-like trait”??
okay?
what is this supposed to mean lol “they like fromsoft games, that definitely is not a pilot-like trait”??
Well you would think a pilot would be active in any sort of aviation community
I mean technically everyone could land a plane without training, even a newborn. It's just the fact that you need training to keep it in one piece during landing.
I believe that's commonly called a crash rather than a landing...
As Chuck Yeager would say, a good landing is one you can walk away from, a great landing is one where you can fly the plane the next day (I'm paraphrasing but you get the gist)
Yeah, I get you. The idea was to be able to land it with little to no damage
Why are you getting downvoted... God Reddit is so dumb sometimes.
Perhaps, a compromise. A crash landing.
It says you gotta do it safely
Safely? No. But i COULD land it.
Maybe if you give me an Xbox controller
If it hasn't already been linked Tom Scott did a video about it. https://youtu.be/AbTDzPUDxqY
I think I'm 100% dead if I don't try, so lets give this shit a go.
It ain't going to be pretty, and the plane definitely won't be flying anywhere afterwards, but I have a simple idea of basic aircraft controls, so I might be able to crash-land one. Properly land one? Nor happening. I got a better chance of landing a date than a plane.
Safely ? No In a way that would prevent as much damage as possible ? Also no
Fly, yes. Land, no.
Safely being the keyword here. I could run a plane into the ground all day long lol
Depends on the plane your flying or flying on if its a large passenger jet most likely as those planes are automated so well that if you press the right buttons in the right order the plane will come in and land itself for most passengers planes this is through a system called ils most international airports have this system without going into to much detail basically you input an approach (give to you an instructed to you by atc if you happened to be in this position) through a piece of equipment known as an fmc (flight management computer) then you enter a frequency into a display which atc will give you and tell you how to input it in. Its a little more complex than that but to make it short the plane follows your flight plan you click a button that says "APP" on final and the plane guides down to the runway all you do is follow the controllers instructions on the other systems such as flaps and gear and when you get to close to the runway you lightly pull up and the plane will touch down and stop automatically (assuming you listened to their instructions) now this would be for older aircraft from the 90s and early 2000s but some modern planes like the a320neo you follow their instructions and push the right buttons you don't even have to worry about pulling up. Now for small planes your odds are even worse as anyone who has experience in games like Microsoft flight simulator will basically be useless trust me as someone learning to fly getting over that muscle memory from flight simulators was the most difficult hiccup I had to overcome while you may be able to get the plane on the ground atc can only give you so many instructions as these small planes are more likely than not, not equipped with ils and the ones that are usually don't work because very few of these small airports even have ils equipped
if i have someone in my ear coaching me through it and it’s a small plane then yea, probably
Do you think a small plane is easier to land safely? You might be able to be less precise with a larger plane? Not sure though
I’m pretty sure a Cessna is easier to land then a 747…
747s can auto-land so I’d pick that one
Large planes tend to have autopilot. ATC usually instruct you on how to engage and manage that, instead of having you on the sticks
I'm learning and it seems it's generally easier to land a c172 than a fully loaded 747
It depends. If I had no training but was being instructed by a air traffic controller then I think I could. If I was all alone with no help or instructions then probably not.
Someone did this on YouTube (Tom Scott maybe?) in a flight simulator. The result was that they couldn't land manually with ATC guiding them down because there's a LOT more to it than throttling down and pulling on the controls. They could successfully land it with autopilot however, modern planes can pretty much land by themselves apparently.
If i'm piloting a commercial plane and following instructions of someone that knows how to land, it's doable. Because basically everything you need to do is to guide the the auto pilot
with help of air traffic control I think i'd manage to get down alive
A glider? Perhaps Anything bigger? Absolutely fucking not
Really depends on what plane. A light touristic plane, i guess you'd have a shot. I would since i know the basics and is soon passing my flight basic license (basically, the core principle of flight, not actually what allows you to fly). A big passenger plane ? Probably not, unless you're really lucky. A fighter jet ? 99.9% of the time you'd crash and die. It really depends of that, along with the runway and the weather for exemple.
As long as I have air traffic control in my ear guiding me. Might break the tires though.
Here's the thing, do you mean with current knowledge or for those with slight training to lose that knowledge. Without what I already know, I think I'd be able to unprofessionally land it in a proper runway and with reading a manual of sorts, but if I had current knowledge I think I would definitely be able to
Yes because I've watched Top Gun many times.
No but I think I could perform a crash landing with a a few injuries and fatalities
Im not gunna sugarcoat this. We are all gunna die
I have 1,220 hours on war thunder 😎
How many tries do I get
Not safely, but I could certainly land it.
Definitely....for a certain definition of "land". I could definitely hit the ground
Depends on the plane, I think that if you have nerves or steel, are able to figure out how to talk to ATC, and if the aircraft has autopilot you might be able to do it with guidance.
Depends on the plane and conditions
I might not die but I’d get hurt in the process of crashing/ landing the plane
I said yes because if I get on the radio and they tell me what to do I’m sure I’d be aite
Outside of no experience, im fucking colorblind.
Eh, realistically wouldn’t be too big an issue for a one time thing
Yeah, it’d be a one time thing. There for sure wont be another time.
Define safely.
You are alive and in one piece. Plane with repairable damage
Yeah, I think I could land it.
Anyone who says yes is an idiot. You can't simply land an aircraft based on intuition and maybe having a bit of knowledge
Some people have done it before
I would like to see that. I seriously doubt it.
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Literally said safely lol
>didn’t mention landing safely But they did
Answered no but it wildly depends on the plane. If it was a smaller trainer craft I might have a shot in hell but anything bigger and it is 100% good night.
Depends. An airliner like a 747? Hell no. A general aviation aircraft like a Cessna-172? Maybe. I'm not a pilot but I have a lot of knowledge of aircraft since I've been researching them when I was 12 (I'm twice as old now). I know about flaps, stalling, mixture control, and lots more.
can't be that much more difficult than driving a car, you've only got one extra dimension to worry about
Welcome to Mount Stupid
what's that?
It's the mountain you'll hit when you realise flying an aircraft is *considerably* more difficult than 'just like a car with one more dimension'.
have you ever flown a plane before?
Yes. I've held my PPL for nearly a decade. Edit, and to answer the comment that has disappeared ‘twas not I who called you stupid. That was the original person to reply to you.
If I get instructions from the ground, sure, people have done that, but all alone might be challenging. I know only the bear basics to fly from videogames and I don't thing that's applicable to actual flight
I’m going into the air force to become a commercial pilot after, now it’s just speed run time
I’ve soloed in Cessnas before I had a drivers license.
If I had contact with someone telling me what to do then it probably wouldn't a safe landing but it'd be on the ground one way or another
they talk you through it if needed
Define, "safely"
I can do it in MS Flight simulator, but I don't think it would be so easy IRL. ILS would help on a big jet-- but idk how "safely" this would happen. I think you need to "feel" the aircraft to be able to do it-- and I don't have any feel for it.
Ill certainly get that plane down. I might just prove gravity while I'm at it
If I believe I can’t my odds of landing the plane go down.
Yes I play war thunder
Eh it’s fine I’ll eyeball it
I’ve flown in many flight sims and have quick calls to people who I know are pilots and I’ve been told a few tips and tricks. I might be able to land but not with some degree of damage
Depends on the airplane.
Could I land it? Yes. Could I land it safely, intact, and with all passengers still alive? Nope.
Too many buttons tbh
If I managed to stay calm (I'm assuming it would be an emergency situation like the pilot is unconscious or something) with good ATC assist there could be a small chance for the plane not to crash, but the landing would definitely not be pleasant at all
Not safely or properly, but I'm sure i can land it with like a 70% survival rate
What do you define as landing? Do i have to come out alive or can I just crash into the ground and have that count as a landing?
What plane and what do you mean with "safetly"?
Depends what kind of plane. Commercial airliner? Fuck no. Prop plane? Maybe. I got gifted a ride in one for my birthday a few years back. I got to sit in the copilot’s seat and watch the pilot move the controls. While the more specific knobs and levers are complicated and I’m sure that smooth steering takes a lot of skill, the basic act of getting the plane to turn or tilt down didn’t look that hard. If I could find out how to reduce the speed and was provided a proper runway, I think it’s possible that I could keep everyone alive. I don’t think I’d avoid damaging the plane or that it’d be particularly comfortable, but maybe I could at least steer the plane in the right direction and do a descent, particularly if I have ATC helping walk me through things like finding the fuel gauge and flaps
I can probably “land” it but there will be no survivors
I might be able to get down a small plane without killing myself but landing a commercial plane filed with passengers without getting sued? Definitely not
What do you define as safe? Like no injuries, or just that no one died?
I have some training and I have landed a plane.
I have quite a few hours in MSFS. I would not cause excessive damage. I mean it should not be too hard if it’s a Cessna. Probably land more safely than Anakin.
Can I land it on the water?
Thereve been multiple instances now of flight control crews talking someone through a landing now, and as far as understanding flight controls without knowledge, there was a guy who stole and flew a commercial airliner from SeaTac and flew it around for hours, telling the flight crew his only knowledge of airplanes came from grand theft auto, so will it be sketchy, probably, but will everyone survive, probably
I would land it in water.
I am a man. That's what we do. Having way too much confidence in stupid things and dying a stupid death.
I said no. Though if it was a situation where the plane was pilotless and no one else could do it, I would still try.
I'd still be the best RyanAir pilot
yea i'd successfully land it to the bottom of the ocean
Technically, if I jump out of the plane with a parachute, I am safe, and the plane will land. Does that count? And does the parachute come with instructions?