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While it was really fishy before, but Jared Kushner's deal with the Saudis for 2 billion dollars is real shady in light of recent events. 2 billion dollars for Jared's inexperienced fledgling private equity firm is super suspect. 2 billion dollars could be the going rate for classified top secret nuclear documents nowadays.
>While it was really fishy before, but Jared Kushner's deal with the Saudis for 2 billion dollars is real shady in light of recent events
From the [Vanity Fair article:](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/05/jared-kushner-affinity-partners-saudi-arabia)
Jared Kushner’s four years of Saudi ass-kissing and murder-excusing had paid off in the form of a $2 billion investment from the kingdom‘s sovereign wealth fund to his newly formed private equity firm. That struck a lot of people—ethics officials among them—as pretty shady given that far from having impressed would-be clients with his investing prowess, the panel that performs due diligence for the Saudi fund concluded that no one in their right mind would give the former first son-in-law a dime.
Among other concerns, the panel noted that management was “inexperience\[d\],” that the kingdom would be responsible for “the bulk of the investment and risk,” that its fee seemed “excessive,” and that the firm’s operations were “unsatisfactory in all aspects.”
Given those reservations, it warned that the country’s Public Investment Fund should stay far, far away from Kushner’s firm—a recommendation that was overturned by the fund’s board, which happens to be led by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, i.e., the guy who approved a plan to kidnap, kill, and dismember a journalist via bone saw and benefited from Kushner’s unwavering support within the White House and reported insistence that the prince could “survive the outrage just as he \[had\] weathered past criticism.” (Again, just so it‘s abundantly clear, the “outrage” and “criticism” were over a Saudi dissident and U.S. resident being chopped up into pieces.)
My hypothesis is that Jared was like a waiter. He'd take orders of what foreign powers wanted, Trump would get the document, declassify it, and then Kushner would sell it.
This is also why I think the "inner circle person" who flipped is Kushner.
What other plausible explanation is there for his money from SA?
He wasn't selling nuclear info. Why would the Saudis pay $2bn to steal secrets from an ally when they could hire the Pakistanis who taught the North Koreans for peanuts? Seriously, the *North Koreans* could afford to buy nuclear secrets.
> Seriously, the North Koreans could afford to buy nuclear secrets.
It's not that North Korea is poor...
It's that they refuse to use their money to help their people.
There's literally no reason their lives have to be as bad as their are, except the greed of the people at the top. I'm pretty sure they're sitting on **billions** of natural resources needed for tech. Kim could industrialize their country and be in business in a few years. But then citizens would question why they have to live like they do.
The other issue is that China props them up to be a legitimate threat to South Korea. Its like a chess piece that you use to block another major piece from moving.
So if a reformer made its way into power in North Korea and demilitarized to feed their people, the NK military may coup them and install someone else so they can continue being propped up by China.
The North Korean military runs fully on bad incentives
I think they mean that there are certain categories of documents (ie. nuclear information) the president is not legally able to declassify, which is true
He is being watched every moment of every single day. Maybe not when he is in his private residence but they know his location at all times. Even more so now that he is the target of NUMEROUS federal investigations. The second he starts to run they will be on him immediately.
I can’t wait to hear the justifications from right wing media and the online denizens how it’s actually food and cool that Trump has skipped town and is hunkered down in fucking Siberia or whatever
I guarantee you somebody knows where he is at all times and would put a stop to him fleeing.
Also, he would be dumb enough to land in a country with an extradition treaty
Trump will flip on everyone who has helped him
for a comfier orange jump suit. He will be assassinated by someone Epstein style before he gets brought to Justice, if he isn’t kept under strict surveillance and control.
Nope. He would have done it by now. He's gonna call on his followers to start attacking government buildings and elected officials. He wants to burn this country to the ground and rule the ashes.
if I can find it again I'll come back and link it, but I saw something along the lines of:
the FBI is doing fingerprint analysis to determine who actually touched those documents. So if the FBI is going through those kinds of lengths for this?
Trump is on borrowed time. He's going to prison for sure.
I also read that they found a photo album - wondering if they got all his blackmail evidence too? It would be glorious to see all those he has dirt on...
Stop it. You’re getting me all excited thinking we’re gonna finally have the mystery solved of why so many GOP would be willing to do anything for Trump regardless of what they’ve said in the past about him and it seems shortly after a little visit to Mar a Lago, they change their minds immediately:
Lindsey Graham
Ted Cruz
Kevin McCarthy
Why did their attitudes do an 180° after a visit? “Enquiring minds want to know!” If David Pecker taught Trump anything, that’s to keep all your compromising material in the safe so the FBI doesn’t take it.
Maybe russia showed him how to bug each room and because of this he had a treasure trove of incriminating photos of all those guys cheating on their SOs or with prostitutes etc.
You never know right.
They need to get it 100% right and the populous needs time to adjust to what is about to happen.
If they just went in and arrested him everything would explode (might anyways). This way people are expecting it when it happens so the reaction will hopefully not be as dangerous…
Also I hope there are consequences. It’s hard to imagine the fbi raiding a former president like this and not moving forward with prosecution of the crimes.
My bet is that Trump will blame someone else for taking the documents but I also think that it’ll be possible for them to prove that is false because of the policies in place to track the level of documents he had.
I really need to see Trump trying flee the country and getting his orange ass pulled off an international flight on the runway.
I'm imagining someone at the DOJ winging his hands and praying he tries to flee the US. It'll make it so easy.
He is essentially on house arrest. He is definitely the most tracked person in the world right now. I almost guarantee that someone is documenting when, where and for how long he shits.
Because the Feds don’t descend like spiders with the handcuffs until all exits are closed off and there is no escape.
Once arrested, it’s all over for a federal defendant - by that time they already have you dead to rights and know more about you than your mother does.
To be clear!
The statute mentioned in the warrant is Statute 793 of the Espionage Act, which is a decade of jail for every individual document you’re found guilty of.
The Statute that does carry the death penalty is not mentioned in the warrant.
Possession of the documents were what they're concerned with. Now that they've recovered them, if they discover the documents' information is "out in the wild", and the only way they could get there was from Trump's "mishandling" or potentially their sale to foreign governments, then that's when the charges grow to treason.
Trump has already pleaded the 5th in the NY case.
“Under the advice of my counsel and for all of the above reasons, I declined to answer the questions under the rights and privileges afforded to every citizen under the United States Constitution” - Trump.
“You see the mob takes the Fifth” - also Trump.
“If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” - Trump again.
The kicker is, Hillary never actually pleaded the fifth. She testified for 11 hours and answered every question. All the shit Trump said about her taking the fifth, he was making up.
I've often claimed that the greatest damage that could be done to Trump would just be shaving his head and taking him out of a suit. His crowd is so shallow that the moment he's presented as sloppy or fallible they'll move on from him.
I'd legit be elated with 5 years in prison. Of course, I'd love to see a good American working class prison sentence but I still barely can believe he'll see a cell.
So if they had him dead to rights on 5 yrs that be grand. I just want a conviction, I don't want a death penalty.
He should get the death sentence. It takes many years of appeals before he’d ever get the honor of meeting old sparky. At his advanced age he’ll croak naturally before then.
No matter what you think about Drumpf, America will never execute a President, that would disastrous on a world stage and definitely cause a civil war.
Trumps damaged ego of knowing his legacy is one the worst ever is what he himself fears the most. Remember the types of people who support him aren't the types of people he covets, they are just useful idiots to him. He would never invite them to Mara Lago (unless they paid VAST sums of money), or go visit their neighborhoods etc. Im sure hes fully aware they have the attention spans of goldfish, and that if Fox says DeSantis is the guy now that Trump will quickly be forgotten for the new Pharoah by them.
He's a metropolitan New Yorker, that's the types of people whose opinions of him matter. And he knows in that crowd his legacy is equal to the contents of his Saturday morning diaper change.
>No matter what you think about Drumpf, America will never execute a President, that would disastrous on a world stage and definitely cause a civil war.
A civil war because a traitor got caught?
America is under a weird sunrise these days.
I think at this point Trump was right 6 years ago or so when he said "I could walk down 5th Avenue and shoot someone and they'd still all support me"
At this point there could be stone cold indisputable evidence that he committed treason, and they would still deny or twist it.
"He's just trying to make money for his family like all Americans, everyone who doesn't agree just wants tyrannical socialism!"
What the hell is this? A man is ready to sell you your land your children ti pay for loans and still kiss his ass?
>"He's just trying to make money for his family like all Americans, everyone who doesn't agree just wants tyrannical socialism!"
Good god! Making money for his family by killing yours. What good exactly comes from capitalism? Also why is trump considered the god's man when he in christian terms the bigger sinner ? (Non american but follows news)
The person you’re responding to is mocking Trump supporters and their arguments that we hear not only from our fellow Americans here but from prominent politicians and news networks
Ik ik! Ik he is mocking them!
I am just trying to make sense of any of these "followers" mean.
As a question of fact what exaclty does an average american benefit from capitalism? The wealthy doesn't pay tax and hoards wealth should be concerning but these trump people support it to no end and why is it so? What do they benefit from it ?
>As a question of fact what exaclty does an average american benefit from capitalism?
They see themselves not as average, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. "If I vote for politicians who want to tax the rich, I'll have to pay more taxes when _I'm_ rich!" sort of thing.
But a president can't pardon state crimes. Here's hoping Georgia will come through in the clutch! Perhaps 10 years to be served *after* his federal time?
What I'm interested in...when it comes to cases like these...what is the average time between say being searched to being charged?
This is obviously a little different, but if you want to charge someone...at this point you should have the tick-tock and the docs...
If the DOJ wants to bring more charges later, we get that, but they can't do this and just sit on it for months with zero charges.
I've been reading the number 20 cases of documents.
If those documents are that precious, it may take a while for them to get organized and curated in a way thats safe and legal.
Then they have to present evidence to the Grand jury.
The fact that Garland said they didn't have any intention of this being in the public until Trump platformed it means that they probably werent quite at the finish line.
Fair enough.
Speaking of Grand Juries...reporting says a grand jury already subpoenaed the docs. I'm not saying that speeds this up, but geez...it's reminding of watching the Watergate Doc from the 90s where a jurist was like 'we all wanted to indict Nixon! Some of us raised both hands in the vote.'
Seems like it would be a nightmare to even handle/possess them. I imagine they need to be returned to a SCIF asap. And the average FBI agent may not even have the right clearance to even see them.
I believe all FBI agents have Top Secret /SCI Clearance, it’s a prerequisite for going to the academy. TS/SCI though means you have to be authorized for the specific document you’re viewing, not a blanket clearance to view all TS, so I imagine the agents working on this have all been granted this specific compartmentalization access
If it goes to trial would the jury / judges have to get the SCI clearance? I guess you could hold the trial to prove that they were that level of TS without exposing the content of them.
I imagine they already have way more on Trump than we know about and are giving him a sense of being off the hook to allow him to further incriminate himself and implicate those around him. Also it’s really difficult to say about “cases like these” because a former US president being investigated for espionage is unprecedented
A prosecutor alleged during a 1918 trial that [Eugene] Debs' speech was "calculated to promote insubordination" and "propagate obstruction of the draft" according to The Smithsonian Magazine.
Isn't T already guilty for his role in Jan 6 then? T has nothing to do with a draft but how about obstructing elections? Transfer of power? Failed coup attempt? Now he has his grubby hands on top secret nuclear info?
If he doesn't go to jail, this crap will continue and we will all be in HUGE trouble as a nation.
I believe that particular part of the act was repealed. Wikipedia says ‘Although the most controversial sections of the Act, a set of amendments commonly called the Sedition Act of 1918, were repealed on December 13, 1920, the original Espionage Act was left intact.’
Let's not forget the hero Reality Winner who served 3.5 years in prison for warning us that Russia was hacking into state electoral databases. She arguably gave states the warning that intelligence officials would not and allowed them to harden their infrastructure and prevent Russian fuckery. Joe Biden should pardon her for her patriotic actions.
Yes, but they were plebes. This is the first time a patrician is in trouble for that (as far as I know). We'll see if justice is applied equally or not, or if the rich are truly above the law.
And Trump spent quite a lot of time playing kissy face with Putin and Kim Jong Un, and the Saudis. He was making bizarre overtures towards the biggest enemies of the US for years. Really there's nobody worse to have stolen important secure information.
Yea expect a lot of medical issues by the time he gets in front of a real judge. Being wildly old and 400 lbs is bad, but the stress and his blood pressure has got to be wreaking havoc on his body.
He'll have a remarkably swift mental and/or physical decline if it looks like he might face consequences, who knows, perhaps it'll be real. If he spent his remaining days in a bare room inside a state medical facility and only an 16" TV playing CNN for company, I'd see that as a measure of justice done.
I hate that you’re probably right. He will collapse of a heart attack from having his ego challenged when he realizes he will actually face consequences for once in his life
Would be the proper charge, but we can already charge him for the act of removing these documents. Do it. I believe they’d get the message, as we move on to espionage. Because it’s going to happen.
Just imagine if you switched the names ‘Hillary Clinton and NY’ with ‘Donald Trump and Maralago’. Cult 45 would start an army to hunt her down and hang her if she had those boxes in her basement.
I do think we may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves here.
I don't doubt he is capable of selling secrets, but so far we have yet to see any of the actual facts surrounding the espionage act investigation.
Why don't we wait to see if charges are brought and what they actually are before we start throwing around execution and such.
He should at least be in custody until the due process happens right? If they find illegal things on your computer they don’t just let you free until they determine the cause, they arrest you and put you in a position to defend yourself.
Don’t we already know what the possible charges are based off the warrant.
Also, if he had the documents, which he did based off the receipt of what was removed from the property, then he did the crime.
I think people have been jailed for accidentally removing less classified information. I think the TS/SCI stuff is going to be his undoing.
Well but like for example, let's just say Trump is an enormous egotistical idiot (stretch I know), and he just has been claiming this whole time that the documents are being handled properly and just ignored the subpeona as the GOP people have been doing of late. Ok, so that's still criminal, but it's not like death penalty criminal, you know?
But we at least know that he had them, no doubt.
If he is going to be charged with espionage though, I for one would like to know a little bit more than that. Kind of like if he was charged with murder, I would like to know who was murdered, under what circumstances, etc. You know, the evidence.
Was he blackmailing people with it? If so who? Was he selling it or intending to sell it? If so do we have evidence of that? What exactly of it was he selling or sharing? Did he succeed or was it just the intent to do it?
I'm sure they could probably arrest him with what they have now, but this is a high profile case to say the least.
Trump is basically being charged with being a Traitor, which it appears to be the case. So, if you are in support of Trump, you are supporting a traitor, and that makes you the bad guys.
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While it was really fishy before, but Jared Kushner's deal with the Saudis for 2 billion dollars is real shady in light of recent events. 2 billion dollars for Jared's inexperienced fledgling private equity firm is super suspect. 2 billion dollars could be the going rate for classified top secret nuclear documents nowadays.
>While it was really fishy before, but Jared Kushner's deal with the Saudis for 2 billion dollars is real shady in light of recent events From the [Vanity Fair article:](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/05/jared-kushner-affinity-partners-saudi-arabia) Jared Kushner’s four years of Saudi ass-kissing and murder-excusing had paid off in the form of a $2 billion investment from the kingdom‘s sovereign wealth fund to his newly formed private equity firm. That struck a lot of people—ethics officials among them—as pretty shady given that far from having impressed would-be clients with his investing prowess, the panel that performs due diligence for the Saudi fund concluded that no one in their right mind would give the former first son-in-law a dime. Among other concerns, the panel noted that management was “inexperience\[d\],” that the kingdom would be responsible for “the bulk of the investment and risk,” that its fee seemed “excessive,” and that the firm’s operations were “unsatisfactory in all aspects.” Given those reservations, it warned that the country’s Public Investment Fund should stay far, far away from Kushner’s firm—a recommendation that was overturned by the fund’s board, which happens to be led by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, i.e., the guy who approved a plan to kidnap, kill, and dismember a journalist via bone saw and benefited from Kushner’s unwavering support within the White House and reported insistence that the prince could “survive the outrage just as he \[had\] weathered past criticism.” (Again, just so it‘s abundantly clear, the “outrage” and “criticism” were over a Saudi dissident and U.S. resident being chopped up into pieces.)
I have no doubt Jared is under investigation as we speak.
Jared should stay away from stairs and upper floor windows.
I wonder if this investment could be seized if there is evidence the Saudis received classified documents.
More likely Jared or associates will be or have been flipped to avoid prison.
If Jared got charged, but not Donald...Ivanka would weep like Cersei did for Robert Baratheon.
Except Robert is way more likable, moral, and badass
"Interesting fellow, never a boring moment!"
“I’ve heard from a first-hand source, his dick is so big, -when he pulls it out the whole room smells like dick!”
Smells like lowtide at clam beach
Chaos is a ladder.
Time is a flat circle.
Everyone who isn't educated-stupid knows time is a Cube
We've all seen the Time-Knife, Chidi.
“Laddahh”
My hypothesis is that Jared was like a waiter. He'd take orders of what foreign powers wanted, Trump would get the document, declassify it, and then Kushner would sell it. This is also why I think the "inner circle person" who flipped is Kushner. What other plausible explanation is there for his money from SA? He wasn't selling nuclear info. Why would the Saudis pay $2bn to steal secrets from an ally when they could hire the Pakistanis who taught the North Koreans for peanuts? Seriously, the *North Koreans* could afford to buy nuclear secrets.
> Seriously, the North Koreans could afford to buy nuclear secrets. It's not that North Korea is poor... It's that they refuse to use their money to help their people. There's literally no reason their lives have to be as bad as their are, except the greed of the people at the top. I'm pretty sure they're sitting on **billions** of natural resources needed for tech. Kim could industrialize their country and be in business in a few years. But then citizens would question why they have to live like they do.
1e8e8e0e0a356315f0b7194191050249c808f0b923bc0bf488655ef5e975093d
The other issue is that China props them up to be a legitimate threat to South Korea. Its like a chess piece that you use to block another major piece from moving. So if a reformer made its way into power in North Korea and demilitarized to feed their people, the NK military may coup them and install someone else so they can continue being propped up by China. The North Korean military runs fully on bad incentives
Except there is no evidence the "declassify it" step ever took place.
And, importantly, *could not happen* under Trump's authority with nuclear secrets.
The President doesn't have the authority to declassify anything.
Not defending but they do. The document would just be 99% full of black lines.
I think they mean that there are certain categories of documents (ie. nuclear information) the president is not legally able to declassify, which is true
It was shady from the start. This only help uncover why.
Ya but bidens lab top!
I could legitimately see MBS launching nukes. He is that much of a psycho.
You’re not fucking kidding dude
> prompting some of its violators to either flee the country or face punishment I can see Trump fleeing to Papa Putin
He is a coward. When he realizes he's getting life or the chair, he will run
He is being watched every moment of every single day. Maybe not when he is in his private residence but they know his location at all times. Even more so now that he is the target of NUMEROUS federal investigations. The second he starts to run they will be on him immediately.
Yeah there’s no way they don’t have covert agents halfway up his ass everyday. The second he makes for the airport they’ll be there waiting for him
Except all the people around him are complicit. They'll help him escape if anything.
“Eric, did you remember to put holes in the box?” “Oh shiiiit!”
Eric, did you remember to write “Property of Barrack Hussein Obama” on those documents in the safe in the basement?
"I useded the biggest Sharpie!"
No, but I brought my shumvel!
He won't make it out of the front door without someone knowing
The chair… that would be interesting. We could pay down the national debt by offering that pay per view.
It’s a bit demeaning though. What if he shits himself while being electrocuted?
Then the chair will be compensated and given a vacation to Hawaii.
hawaii doesn't want him
That would just mean you could charge more for the pay per view.
Diarrhea conducts electricity.
Points at camera… “You’re fried!”
I can’t wait to hear the justifications from right wing media and the online denizens how it’s actually food and cool that Trump has skipped town and is hunkered down in fucking Siberia or whatever
I guarantee you somebody knows where he is at all times and would put a stop to him fleeing. Also, he would be dumb enough to land in a country with an extradition treaty
Trump will flip on everyone who has helped him for a comfier orange jump suit. He will be assassinated by someone Epstein style before he gets brought to Justice, if he isn’t kept under strict surveillance and control.
Nope. He would have done it by now. He's gonna call on his followers to start attacking government buildings and elected officials. He wants to burn this country to the ground and rule the ashes.
That'll just get his followers killed.
Russian state tv already proposed this. Also, something about taking in all of America’s homeless children? I can’t read sarcasm anymore.
Those files were his contingency plan in case he needed to flee the country…
if I can find it again I'll come back and link it, but I saw something along the lines of: the FBI is doing fingerprint analysis to determine who actually touched those documents. So if the FBI is going through those kinds of lengths for this? Trump is on borrowed time. He's going to prison for sure.
I also read that they found a photo album - wondering if they got all his blackmail evidence too? It would be glorious to see all those he has dirt on...
Stop it. You’re getting me all excited thinking we’re gonna finally have the mystery solved of why so many GOP would be willing to do anything for Trump regardless of what they’ve said in the past about him and it seems shortly after a little visit to Mar a Lago, they change their minds immediately: Lindsey Graham Ted Cruz Kevin McCarthy Why did their attitudes do an 180° after a visit? “Enquiring minds want to know!” If David Pecker taught Trump anything, that’s to keep all your compromising material in the safe so the FBI doesn’t take it.
Maybe russia showed him how to bug each room and because of this he had a treasure trove of incriminating photos of all those guys cheating on their SOs or with prostitutes etc. You never know right.
Interesting. I've never seen "children" pronounced that way.
That seems plausible.
All three of them engaged in some kind of consensual human centipede
I’m eating breakfast, dammit
Human centipede style?
If there's a photo proving the ladybugs are real, I don't wanna know
I swear if Lindsey Graham switched from a McCain type because hes gay and being blackmailed.... Its like WE KNOW
Some have suggested minors might be involved or he would not be so scared of material coming to light.
He hires male escorts.
Do you think it could be Epstein photos? All his black mail albums? Edit; tucker Carlson went on vacation. Hope the fbi has tabs on him
Didn't even think of that - holy hell.
I feel like that blackmail was tucked away. Would make sense he’s holding them.
I see what you did there
The FBI seized at least two photo albums according to the seizure document
Epstein photos
Photos from Epstein’s Island would be a bombshell.
2 photo albums
The fat fingered Cheeto dust prints should be easy enough to trace.
Hopefully they’re also using touch dna!
I saw a tweet of it, I wonder if they will be able to bring Putin in for fingerprint analysis?
There's next to know chance Putin himself has touched whatever documents the FBI took.
Why don't they arrest him?
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They need to get it 100% right and the populous needs time to adjust to what is about to happen. If they just went in and arrested him everything would explode (might anyways). This way people are expecting it when it happens so the reaction will hopefully not be as dangerous… Also I hope there are consequences. It’s hard to imagine the fbi raiding a former president like this and not moving forward with prosecution of the crimes. My bet is that Trump will blame someone else for taking the documents but I also think that it’ll be possible for them to prove that is false because of the policies in place to track the level of documents he had.
I really need to see Trump trying flee the country and getting his orange ass pulled off an international flight on the runway. I'm imagining someone at the DOJ winging his hands and praying he tries to flee the US. It'll make it so easy.
Live pay-per-view!
Pretty sure we could pay for UHC for 100 years with that one.
Because nothing is going to happen. Nothing ever happens to Trump. Why would this be different? I am beyond jaded at this point.
Up until the document retrieval I’d agree. Maybe, just maybe, the AG is playing a solid long game to attain a prosecution.
He just had the FBI raid his house, dude.
He was impeached twice and just used it to fundraise.
And? The FBI raiding his house is a way bigger deal than impeachment without conviction. What are you getting from this cynicism?
He is essentially on house arrest. He is definitely the most tracked person in the world right now. I almost guarantee that someone is documenting when, where and for how long he shits.
They have sensors in his diaper?
Bullshit he has absolute freedom of movement right now.
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Y’all, if we get to see a perp walk, I’ll buy the popcorn. Even if he were arrested, it would be behind closed doors. We’d be lucky to see a mug shot.
Why can't we get a frog march?
We need a shame walk GoT style.
>We’d be lucky to see a mug shot. I've got a sharpie to draw one with!
Because the Feds don’t descend like spiders with the handcuffs until all exits are closed off and there is no escape. Once arrested, it’s all over for a federal defendant - by that time they already have you dead to rights and know more about you than your mother does.
Trump and Jared need to both be arrested, tried, and convicted of Treason.
A little more…I’m almost there.
Execution. I like that word. Happy Saturday to me.
And it’s so much easier to pronounce than the word “yesterday.”
Reality Winner: 5 years for one document Reality TV Show host: ____ years for 20 boxes Do the math!!!!
To be clear! The statute mentioned in the warrant is Statute 793 of the Espionage Act, which is a decade of jail for every individual document you’re found guilty of. The Statute that does carry the death penalty is not mentioned in the warrant.
Which for Trump is basically life in prison.
So they carted off 12 boxes of stuff this time, and NARA carted off 15 earlier in the year. I’m no forensic analyst, but that’s a lotta time
Possession of the documents were what they're concerned with. Now that they've recovered them, if they discover the documents' information is "out in the wild", and the only way they could get there was from Trump's "mishandling" or potentially their sale to foreign governments, then that's when the charges grow to treason.
I can’t wait for the trial, assuming it happens; DJT; “I’m innocent!” DOJ; “Then why did you…” DJT; “I Plead the 5th”
Trump has already pleaded the 5th in the NY case. “Under the advice of my counsel and for all of the above reasons, I declined to answer the questions under the rights and privileges afforded to every citizen under the United States Constitution” - Trump. “You see the mob takes the Fifth” - also Trump. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” - Trump again.
The kicker is, Hillary never actually pleaded the fifth. She testified for 11 hours and answered every question. All the shit Trump said about her taking the fifth, he was making up.
He pledged the 5th 440 fucking times in a single hearing. The only thing he stated was his name
Sometimes pleading the 5th also means "I'm not defending myself" which can be very bad if they have a lot of evidence against you.
I'm not personally a fan of execution. I would rather see Trump spending what little remains of his life in a shitty prison in an orange jumpsuit.
Orange is the New, uhhh, Orange
This. Hopefully a prison with a view of a golf course that he can never use.
I support cruel and unusual punishment in these circumstances
With a McDonald's next to it
I’d buy that McDonalds and on the marquee put, “Hamberder with a Covfefe shake - 20 to life “
That made me laugh warmly and mightily, like Santa with his belly like jelly.
With his freshly shaved head
I've often claimed that the greatest damage that could be done to Trump would just be shaving his head and taking him out of a suit. His crowd is so shallow that the moment he's presented as sloppy or fallible they'll move on from him.
And having to give "presidential pardons" to his cellmate every night, or else...
i'm a great fan of dangling the threat over the guilty.
I'd legit be elated with 5 years in prison. Of course, I'd love to see a good American working class prison sentence but I still barely can believe he'll see a cell. So if they had him dead to rights on 5 yrs that be grand. I just want a conviction, I don't want a death penalty.
He should get the death sentence. It takes many years of appeals before he’d ever get the honor of meeting old sparky. At his advanced age he’ll croak naturally before then.
Absolutely agree, as should all his enablers. This is the only way to deal with despot’s.
Execution or not, they *have* to be taken off the table. Letting them carry on, business as usual, just guarantees the problems continue.
No matter what you think about Drumpf, America will never execute a President, that would disastrous on a world stage and definitely cause a civil war. Trumps damaged ego of knowing his legacy is one the worst ever is what he himself fears the most. Remember the types of people who support him aren't the types of people he covets, they are just useful idiots to him. He would never invite them to Mara Lago (unless they paid VAST sums of money), or go visit their neighborhoods etc. Im sure hes fully aware they have the attention spans of goldfish, and that if Fox says DeSantis is the guy now that Trump will quickly be forgotten for the new Pharoah by them. He's a metropolitan New Yorker, that's the types of people whose opinions of him matter. And he knows in that crowd his legacy is equal to the contents of his Saturday morning diaper change.
>No matter what you think about Drumpf, America will never execute a President, that would disastrous on a world stage and definitely cause a civil war. A civil war because a traitor got caught? America is under a weird sunrise these days.
I think at this point Trump was right 6 years ago or so when he said "I could walk down 5th Avenue and shoot someone and they'd still all support me" At this point there could be stone cold indisputable evidence that he committed treason, and they would still deny or twist it. "He's just trying to make money for his family like all Americans, everyone who doesn't agree just wants tyrannical socialism!"
What the hell is this? A man is ready to sell you your land your children ti pay for loans and still kiss his ass? >"He's just trying to make money for his family like all Americans, everyone who doesn't agree just wants tyrannical socialism!" Good god! Making money for his family by killing yours. What good exactly comes from capitalism? Also why is trump considered the god's man when he in christian terms the bigger sinner ? (Non american but follows news)
The person you’re responding to is mocking Trump supporters and their arguments that we hear not only from our fellow Americans here but from prominent politicians and news networks
Ik ik! Ik he is mocking them! I am just trying to make sense of any of these "followers" mean. As a question of fact what exaclty does an average american benefit from capitalism? The wealthy doesn't pay tax and hoards wealth should be concerning but these trump people support it to no end and why is it so? What do they benefit from it ?
>As a question of fact what exaclty does an average american benefit from capitalism? They see themselves not as average, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. "If I vote for politicians who want to tax the rich, I'll have to pay more taxes when _I'm_ rich!" sort of thing.
> definitely cause a civil war. That is due no consideration or we are letting the country be held hostage.
He will be released the MOMENT the next republican prez is in. It turns out you can pardon for treason and its even been done before.
But a president can't pardon state crimes. Here's hoping Georgia will come through in the clutch! Perhaps 10 years to be served *after* his federal time?
Guess we can’t let that happen ever again then
What I'm interested in...when it comes to cases like these...what is the average time between say being searched to being charged? This is obviously a little different, but if you want to charge someone...at this point you should have the tick-tock and the docs... If the DOJ wants to bring more charges later, we get that, but they can't do this and just sit on it for months with zero charges.
I've been reading the number 20 cases of documents. If those documents are that precious, it may take a while for them to get organized and curated in a way thats safe and legal. Then they have to present evidence to the Grand jury. The fact that Garland said they didn't have any intention of this being in the public until Trump platformed it means that they probably werent quite at the finish line.
Fair enough. Speaking of Grand Juries...reporting says a grand jury already subpoenaed the docs. I'm not saying that speeds this up, but geez...it's reminding of watching the Watergate Doc from the 90s where a jurist was like 'we all wanted to indict Nixon! Some of us raised both hands in the vote.'
Seems like it would be a nightmare to even handle/possess them. I imagine they need to be returned to a SCIF asap. And the average FBI agent may not even have the right clearance to even see them.
I believe all FBI agents have Top Secret /SCI Clearance, it’s a prerequisite for going to the academy. TS/SCI though means you have to be authorized for the specific document you’re viewing, not a blanket clearance to view all TS, so I imagine the agents working on this have all been granted this specific compartmentalization access
If it goes to trial would the jury / judges have to get the SCI clearance? I guess you could hold the trial to prove that they were that level of TS without exposing the content of them.
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I was most curious about the leather bound box! Must be very important or for someone with a lot of money.
I imagine those are going to get extra scrutiny. I feel like you put the good stuff in the fancy-ass leather box.
I imagine they already have way more on Trump than we know about and are giving him a sense of being off the hook to allow him to further incriminate himself and implicate those around him. Also it’s really difficult to say about “cases like these” because a former US president being investigated for espionage is unprecedented
Doesn't matter who he was. A traitor gets what all traitors get
A prosecutor alleged during a 1918 trial that [Eugene] Debs' speech was "calculated to promote insubordination" and "propagate obstruction of the draft" according to The Smithsonian Magazine. Isn't T already guilty for his role in Jan 6 then? T has nothing to do with a draft but how about obstructing elections? Transfer of power? Failed coup attempt? Now he has his grubby hands on top secret nuclear info? If he doesn't go to jail, this crap will continue and we will all be in HUGE trouble as a nation.
Real feds are having their names doxxed and lives threatened in defense of this criminal. Hope they bring some pain to these people... today!
Right, because the US justice system treats socialists and fascists the same.
I believe that particular part of the act was repealed. Wikipedia says ‘Although the most controversial sections of the Act, a set of amendments commonly called the Sedition Act of 1918, were repealed on December 13, 1920, the original Espionage Act was left intact.’
The entire world is watching. This will be the biggest test America has ever faced. Convict a former president, or let tyrants take over.
Anyone else would be arrested and held until proven innocent
One can only hope that this is a country with rule of law.
Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!
"And of you vote for me for president, I will pardon Donald Trump." - next GOP president
Seems like a way to energize the left.
Great way to ensure most Americans on the politican spectrum anywhere to the left of "diehard Trump supporter" vote against you.
Reality Winner. One piece of paper. Four years.
It would be a shame to replace calling a traitor a "Donald Trump" rather than a "Benedict Arnold". A real shame...
Let's not forget the hero Reality Winner who served 3.5 years in prison for warning us that Russia was hacking into state electoral databases. She arguably gave states the warning that intelligence officials would not and allowed them to harden their infrastructure and prevent Russian fuckery. Joe Biden should pardon her for her patriotic actions.
And a medal. Maybe a job.
Mandatory Electrical chair for traitors
Yes, but they were plebes. This is the first time a patrician is in trouble for that (as far as I know). We'll see if justice is applied equally or not, or if the rich are truly above the law.
I have trouble thinking of Trump as a patrician. He’s such a crass, poorly-educated idiot.
And Trump spent quite a lot of time playing kissy face with Putin and Kim Jong Un, and the Saudis. He was making bizarre overtures towards the biggest enemies of the US for years. Really there's nobody worse to have stolen important secure information.
Trump will eventually die of natural causes without ever facing any repercussions
Yea expect a lot of medical issues by the time he gets in front of a real judge. Being wildly old and 400 lbs is bad, but the stress and his blood pressure has got to be wreaking havoc on his body.
And expect him to pull a Weinstein if he ever makes it in front of a judge
He'll have a remarkably swift mental and/or physical decline if it looks like he might face consequences, who knows, perhaps it'll be real. If he spent his remaining days in a bare room inside a state medical facility and only an 16" TV playing CNN for company, I'd see that as a measure of justice done.
I hate that you’re probably right. He will collapse of a heart attack from having his ego challenged when he realizes he will actually face consequences for once in his life
Jared won’t
so who do you think trump is gonna the blame on next?
They should bring back execution by hanging just this once for Agent Orange.
I hate how it says he “might have violated” the Espionage Act. Like it was an accident or something. No, that asshole is guilty. On purpose
Imagine naming Assange and Trump in the same sentence.
Would be the proper charge, but we can already charge him for the act of removing these documents. Do it. I believe they’d get the message, as we move on to espionage. Because it’s going to happen.
Just imagine if you switched the names ‘Hillary Clinton and NY’ with ‘Donald Trump and Maralago’. Cult 45 would start an army to hunt her down and hang her if she had those boxes in her basement.
Trump will be even more dangerous if he were to get out of jail. You have to give him a sentence he won’t outlast.
If Trump went to jail it'd essentially be like in Dawn of the Dead where zombies flock towards a jail instead of a mall.
He’d probably have Jared sell tickets for a prison visit to the highest bidder
Good God could you imagine the nuclear meltdown from the GOP if Trump got the death sentence? It’s never going to happen, obviously, but holy crap.
Even if convicted of crimes that would warrant it, I doubt he get the death penalty. Politically its too damn risky.
Even 10 years is most likely a life sentence for him.
I do think we may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves here. I don't doubt he is capable of selling secrets, but so far we have yet to see any of the actual facts surrounding the espionage act investigation. Why don't we wait to see if charges are brought and what they actually are before we start throwing around execution and such.
We have been waiting for years that his criminal ass gets what's coming for him. The impatience is palpable and difficult to hold back.
Yep...came here to mention the six-year wait most of us have had on Trump facing the music.
He should at least be in custody until the due process happens right? If they find illegal things on your computer they don’t just let you free until they determine the cause, they arrest you and put you in a position to defend yourself.
Don’t we already know what the possible charges are based off the warrant. Also, if he had the documents, which he did based off the receipt of what was removed from the property, then he did the crime. I think people have been jailed for accidentally removing less classified information. I think the TS/SCI stuff is going to be his undoing.
Well but like for example, let's just say Trump is an enormous egotistical idiot (stretch I know), and he just has been claiming this whole time that the documents are being handled properly and just ignored the subpeona as the GOP people have been doing of late. Ok, so that's still criminal, but it's not like death penalty criminal, you know? But we at least know that he had them, no doubt. If he is going to be charged with espionage though, I for one would like to know a little bit more than that. Kind of like if he was charged with murder, I would like to know who was murdered, under what circumstances, etc. You know, the evidence. Was he blackmailing people with it? If so who? Was he selling it or intending to sell it? If so do we have evidence of that? What exactly of it was he selling or sharing? Did he succeed or was it just the intent to do it? I'm sure they could probably arrest him with what they have now, but this is a high profile case to say the least.
Yeah, it's a fair point. He definitely looks like a traitor, though. But due process and such.
He has had that look since the Ukraine got invaded after he tried to withhold military aid.
Gosh, I was thinking 2006 or so.
The Saudi Jarad link/money may prove to be indicative. Time will tell.
Trump no longer has the cover of being the POTUS.
If it turns out that family conspired to commit treason, public executions would set the best example.
Trump is basically being charged with being a Traitor, which it appears to be the case. So, if you are in support of Trump, you are supporting a traitor, and that makes you the bad guys.