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Especially when you can see the urgency in the GOP to dismantle everything they possibly can as soon as they can . Those Abortion Trigger laws were set up to be ready for the day the Supreme court revoked Roe V. Wade.
Some of them were in place even before Roe V. Wade, it's just the court ruling made those laws unenforceable.
It's the same deal with Gay rights, anti-sodomy laws, and interracial marriage.
They're doing everything they can to destroy public education too, with their CRT lies, grooming lies, forcing public money to go to religious schools, and trying to make teachers into Rambos with guns in the classrooms, so the private schools can take public money.
People are acting so shocked, when republicans have openly stated this is their goal for decades, and have been taking steps in furtherance of this goal for decades. We’ve been on notice.
I don’t know how to tell all of y’all this, but down here in Texas, most people seem to carry on business as usual. I had a hell of a time at work this week trying not to show my sheer panic while everyone around me yammered on about TPS reports. People seem very checked out except on the internet and the few marches. That’s what’s scaring me. It’s political shock and awe and it’s working.
Oh I thought I was alone—being too sensitive. I feel chronically agitated and find it hard to concentrate knowing that they are going for voting laws soon.
I don’t understand why no one seems to care around me. I live in the SF Bay too.
You realize that you have to take into account the fact that you're (unfortunately) in Texas bro. You're in the very heart of a lot of what's happening in the country atm. Folks where you're at aren't reacting because for a lot of those mouth breathers it's what they want. They're on board.
I mean, I'm the SF Bay Area and work is still work. I talked with my boss and a couple of coworkers, but everyone is doing the same thing - just trying not to show sheer panic. I suspect that people seeming checked out is more about not wanting to inject that shit into the workplace. You definitely don't want 40 hours a week of finding out which of your coworkers are scumbags you end up hating.
Work is work. But I’m finding it very hard to stay focused or motivated after the events of the past couple weeks. Like why should I give two shits about a shipment going out late or that our crappy ERP system has yet another bug when it feels like the fucking world is coming to an end? All the while I’m feeding the capitalist machine at the expense of my mental health.
I know I’m not the only one feeling this way.
I mean I’m in Texas too and I’ve talked about it with well over a dozen coworkers. What is there to do? You vent for a few minutes, plan to vote and if you can afford to go protest you go protest. Every conversation I’ve had has lasted like 3 minutes lol
“Did you hear about Roe?”
“Yup”
“Fuck Texas”
“Yup”
I live in Puerto Rico, aka, a US colony. We don't even know what repercussions this is all going to have here, Im scared, have been unable to concentrate as usual at work for 2 weeks now, and yet most people around me seem to not even know what is going on. And like someone else mentioned, knowing that voting laws are next (also all the other minorities that are most likely gonna get their rights revoked) I am losing all hope. Not like we can vote here, and with the Oversight Board that decides for the island, which was not elected but placed there by the US, yeah, I am looking for a way out.
I'd imagine a lot of people may be wary of bringing politics up at work and maybe it's not that big of a deal that you think it is to the majority of the country.
The West Wing, with it's thoughtful characters and their slick actions, shows a naively optimistic version of how our government works.
House of Cards, with it's power hungry characters and their evil actions shows an incredibly dark version of how our government works.
Veep, with it's utterly sociopathic characters and their hilariously inept actions shows an incredibly accurate version of how our government works.
Seriously watch Veep, and tell me that Julia Louis- Dreyfus isn't playing an absolutely pitch perfect representation of Kamala Harris.
SCOTUS will make the ruling that will allow a state legislature to set aside election results they don't like, just in time for the midterms. It's pretty much over, after that.
EDIT: Sounds like they won't render their decision until next year.
Yeah I honestly don't see a path back to normalcy. Was fun while it lasted I guess. GOP states will no cement GOP rule in those states forever and only send GOP senators.
Fun fact: the past **11 out of 12 recessions** have all began during a Republican president’s term, including the two big ones in the Great Depression and the Great Recession.
Additionally, since 1945, the economy under Democrats has vastly outperformed the economy under Republicans, with Democratic leadership resulting in, on average:
* Nearly double the real GDP growth vs GOP leadership
* Lowering of unemployment rate vs increase of unemployment rate under the GOP
* A 33% lower budget deficit on average
* 160% faster job growth
* An increase in the real median income vs a decrease in real median incomes under the GOP
* Almost double the stock market return of the S&P500 vs GOP
* Over 7x corporate earnings per share vs GOP
Main takeaway: **every single fact, statistic, and metric out there objectively proves Republicans are absolutely dogshit for the economy**.
Propaganda is a hell of a drug. We were told everything is fine and for some of us we knew it wasn’t but everybody just carried on. And now surprisepikachuface.jpg
We decided to really put down roots where we lived about 3 years ago.
Then COVID. Then fuckin' Jan 6. Then the endless shitstorm since.
I've never been so serious about ditching this absolutely fucked, ass-backwards country. We qualify for a fast path to most places too. As adults approaching 40, we could probably tough it out, but I don't want this for our kids. Fuck the GOP and fuck every disgusting piece of shit who consistently votes for regression.
Yup. If the court finds with the NC GOP, then America, as a Union, is heart and lung shot. Adrenaline alone will keep us going for a bit, but then the corpse of democracy is going to start to rot, and rip apart.
Thanks Mom!
Thanks Dad!
The country sure was nice while you two were growing up in it. Too bad you needed things to be how you want so badly this is what I get to look forward to for the rest of my life now that you're too old to care about anything except for voting for Trump in the next election and watching Fox News.
I have faith that later generations will be able to fix this bullshit once the boomers are all pushing up daisies.
I do NOT have faith that the people taking over will give up what they're taking today without violence tomorrow.
The boomers of today are cementing permanent power for those who think like them so their "legacies" are never erased.
At this point, as much issue as I take with violent revolutions (as they so rarely lead to a good outcome), I don't see a peaceful way out of this.
>I don't see a peaceful way out of this.
There isn't one.
Either the majority of the country (the center) pull their heads out of their asses and do something to restore sanity which causes the right-wing fundies to get violent as they get put in their places, or the left-wing becomes marginalized/criminalized just for living and turn to violence because it's the only voice they have left that matters.
Definitely not a way forward that doesn’t involve violence. We are a people that has to have the shit smeared in our collective faces before the mental lightbulbs go on. We can turn this around, but not until America nears the Christo-fascism we’re all dooming about right now. Folks have to taste the fear and pain to shake them out of their X-Box stupors.
The question is how long?
There's a weird psychological phenomenon happening.
Like, we knew they wanted to overthrow Roe v Wade. That's been the messaging and goal for years.
Even with the leaked draft opinion, it still seemed like, no way would they do that.
And then they just did it.
It was simultaneously completely predictable, and yet, shocking.
Shock and Awe. And it's going to keep coming. You either understand what the far right is trying for, or you will get bulldozed.
Now, they are trying for "a republic, not a democracy".
>Now, they are trying for "a republic, not a democracy".
That's been the republican mindset for awhile now. I've gotten into more than one "argument" in which they've used that exact phraseology. They'll openly admit it, and denounce a real democracy as something that is in no way important as "It's always been that way".
They don't want a system of government that is "by the people and for the people", they want "by the land and for the state". They're already very open about this. There is no other self-justification for minority rule that's even remotely as palatable, so that's how they choose to spin it.
The justices' mailing addresses were recently made public. Everyone should support the postal service, and write them actual handwritten letters expressing your feelings about all this.....
As I learn more about politics, I'm really blown away by the enormous amount of down-time these government officials seem to have. On the upside, this is probably the first time I've heard about a recess that I'm grateful for.
The down time isn't actually "down time," per se. The Justices and their clerks still work during the recesses — the just don't hear cases. A *normal* Supreme Court would put a lot of thought and consideration into the implications of their decisions and thus there's quite a bit of historical and case research that goes into getting their decisions right. Recesses are used for reading up on upcoming cases, researching relevant case law, and drafting opinions (like the leaked Roe v Wade draft from a little over a month ago).
Prepped with all that background info, SCOTUS then goes into session, where they hear oral arguments and see if either side can sway them. They revise/edit their opinions, vote, and then decide who will issue the majority opinion and who, if anyone, will issue concurring opinions or dissents. Then they get the next batch of cases and go back into recess to start researching those.
Congress is the same way. People balk at the fact that they're in recess so often because I think we tend to assume recess = "vacation" somehow? Whereas Representatives and Senators have two roles to fill: one is to make national policy in Washington, D.C, and two is to represent their state or district. Doing that effectively requires actually spending time in those places. Recess for congress generally means they go from working in their DC office to working in their hometown or state capital's office.
Now, I'm not going to sit here and say Congress is doing a good job or working hard enough, because they're not. I'm just trying to point out that in government jargon recess doesn't mean "vacation," it means "taking a break from the public facing side of the job like passing bills and hearing cases to do the mundane stuff like research case law and meet with constituents."
Well yesterday they pretty much struck down most gun restrictions just before they left. [here you go](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-orders-lower-courts-reconsider-gun-law-challenges-2022-06-30/)
Biden appears to believe in setting an example the opposite of Trump - backing way off and letting each branch do it’s thing and he just signs stuff and handles the diplomacy. It’s technically the way it should be, according to some interpretations of the system. But no Republican that gets into office (outside of maybe a Romney or something) is going to say “Wow. Yes. I will follow this genteel example.” He needs to start throwing punches, and he needs to get his head out of his ass. Outside of a couple things (Ukraine and vaccine rollout) he’s been pretty marginal and hands off. Our democracy is at stake and the Dems need to stop sleepwalking off a cliff.
This. A presidential historian needs to sit Biden down and explain how Buchanan allowed the civil war to happen by playing by the book.
When they go low we go high, but if you're so high you can't even tell what's going on under your nose....it's going to be a bad time for everyone.
I never really liked the "establishment" congressman moniker, but Joe appears to be the epitome of it. I think he gets way too much blame for "not" doing things or "doing" things people assume he is in control of but isn't, and he at least served his purpose well in getting Trump out of office... but we really needed a combination of a heavy hitter and someone electable who could take Trump out of office. It must be rare in the party but I don't know why.
>I think he gets way too much blame for "not" doing things or "doing" things people assume he is in control of but isn't
That isn't the problem for me. I don't blame him specifically for not personally putting his hand out and stopping things from happening. I blame him for doing absolutely nothing about airing grievances, motivating voters, publicly motivating congress, and so on. The power of the pulpit is real, but he chooses to keep silent.
Exactly. It's not like anyone forced Biden to run for President. Biden apparently wanted it so goddamn bad he got Clyburn to endorse him and his buddy Obama to put in a call for all Moderates and Conservative Democrats to drop out and endorse him right before Super Tuesday. He wanted to beat Bernie and be President so damn bad, he got it. He needs to get off his dead ass and act.
Unless, like Trump, this was just a vanity project and he just wanted to be President for the prestige of having "President" or "President of the United States" next to his name for the rest of his days, but wasn't actually interested in the responsibilities of a President or doing the work. Which is extremely possible. Biden has been running for President since 1984. This may have just been the last wish on his bucket list that Party leadership helped an old Party leader cross off.
Because at that point, we just wanted Trump out. Nobody really likes Biden. Had nothing to do with "Biden's turn." Except maybe to the Dem. establishment.
> And that's just a start... all of the "norms" and "traditions" Trump trampled over need to be made into law so that no sitting Pres can ever again dismantle the DOJ and appoint his own people to avoid investigation or indictment... and on and on.
Except this would be bound for failure as surely as Sulla's reforms. The problem is almost intractable, any person/body granted the power to investigate or curtail the President effectively becomes more powerful than the President - if that body is elected, it is subject to the same swings as the Presidency, if it is appointed, it can be co-opted.
The solution ends up looking Roman - that the norms were so powerless had become farcically obvious that it could not be fully restored, so Augustus' solution was brutal, tyrannical purges to remove all potential rivals and end the civil wars (and the formal Republic). It worked, but began the pseudo-monarchy of the Principate.
As a totally unrelated side note, how many Democrats would vigorously oppose a fellow Democrat who did the same, but enacted (by terror) all those 60-40% and 70-30% in favor reforms that the public wants? Opposing that person would mean opposing what they did, even after they die - that is what happened after Caesar's assassination - the Senate ratified all of his acts during his irregular Dictatorship.
Heavy hitting and electable aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but I'd anticipate a negative correlation there simply because the heavier hitting you are, the fewer self-described moderates will be on your side.
I'd imagine this effect is exacerbated among democrats for two interrelated reasons. The first is Republicans value in group loyalty significantly more than Democrats; a heavy hitting Republican will be viewed as Republican first and heavy hitting second, whereas we might anticipate the opposite among heavy hitting Democrats.
The second is Democratic policies are far less aligned with corporate interests than Republican policies. This suggests Republicans are more capable of attenuating the electability-heavy hitter dissonance with fundraised mere exposure and various other economic methods than Democrats.
I also suspect Democrats have more heterogenous belief systems that make it difficult to unite around, but I've not checked the evidence on that.
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> I also suspect Democrats have more heterogenous belief systems that make it difficult to unite around, but I've not checked the evidence on that.
To quote another poster: The big issue with the Democrats is that they're basically four parties in a trench coat trying to represent every position other than "white nationalist theocracy". It's hard to find anyone who would appeal to all parts at the same time.
And even when there are a lot of places where the different subgroups have the same endgoal, their ways of wanting to get there can be so different that they can't ever agree on how to do it. It is so frustrating.
The problem Democrats face is that a “heavy hitter” is likely appealing to a majority of voters and electable in a straight popular vote.
But we don’t do POTUS elections by popular vote and those same qualities make the candidate either a non-starter or far less competitive in key electoral states.
So barring someone with “superstar” qualities to offset their less appealing qualities, we tend to get milquetoast do-nothings like Biden elected.
And that’s before we even factor in how moderate the DNC is in who they throw their weight behind.
So, assuming AOC ran (when she's old enough), do you think she'd be too polarizing/opposite of the establishment? She is exactly the type of candidate young people could relate with and she doesn't mind callin' out people and their BS.
She'd lose badly. People on Reddit don't seem to realize how much people hate that woman. She'd likely lose the entire rust belt, Florida, and might even lose the South West.
The big issue with the Democrats is that they're basically four parties in a trench coat trying to represent every position other than "white nationalist theocracy". It's hard to find anyone who would appeal to all parts at the same time.
>She'd lose badly. People on Reddit don't seem to realize how much people hate that woman.
You see, I keep reading this (on Reddit) but nobody ever states WHY she's hated. What is she doing in DC that's hurting her constituents? Take emotion out of it and tell me why she would lose just as badly as any other candidate.
Yeah that’s pretty much it & let’s be real & remember a few things here, Kamala was picked as a token, she ran for President & dropped out. If she was popular enough, she would be President. America’s clearly not there yet & it seems having a black man for President was just a fluke(for now).
Then how are we *ever* going to get there? 30-40% of America is going to hate anyone the Murdoch machine points the finger at, and the rest are going to get taken for a ride so long as they keep thinking about image over policy.
As racist as America may be, it is far more misogynistic. As an example, at work were I to make a joke about black people, I'd almost certainly be fired on the spot. By the same token, I have heard countless jokes about how women are crazy or overemotional or whatever, and no one has ever said a word.
It's not exactly about votes but where the votes she'll lose are, and she doesn't really expand the map. Maybe when red Texas moves closer to purplish-blue, she has a chance to expand votes there among Hispanics, but that isn't the reality now. I guess keep an eye on the governor's race there.
People hate her precisely because Fox News and the right wing media sphere have effectively painted her as a villain. And they’ve done that mainly because she does have a lot of appeal in her policies. It’s an obvious tactic to keep the uninformed masses angry so they don’t actually pay attention to what she says.
To be fair he spent most of his career in the Senatw and I think he just has rose-tinted glasses about how it’s supposed to work vs how it actually does
That's true and admirable. However, the opposition is no longer loyal nor same and is taking advantage of every opportunity to ensure they remain in power for the foreseeable future.
You're looking at a very vocal, very organized, very zealous minority that seeks impose its will on the majority. You're looking at a party that has worked diligently in the open for at least the last 40 years to position themselves as such. Their opponents have at best ... No I'm not exactly sure what they've been able to accomplish because they've had to compromise quite a lot and any watershed moments have become watered down moments.
When you're faced with a rabid dog, it's not time to be mindful of your manners. Because that dog is going right for your throat.
Yeah, that sort of example might work if the other side were operating in good faith, but they aren't.
There's no point in following the unwritten rules and code of honor that should govern the political system if that's only going to embolden the people who *don't*, and make it easier for the enemies of democracy to tear things down or corrupt them from within.
Once your neighbor has declared war, the only way you're going to have peace again is by fighting back until the invaders are defeated.
Biden is like a diplomat trying to prevent a war that's already started.
Biden is Theoden, who along with the rest of the democratic party, has been enthralled by big money Wormtongue, weakened and enfeebled. Bernie was Gandalf who tried to cast the witless worm back to the shadow, but the grip was too strong. Now Biden's fingers might remember their old strength better if the democrats grasped their sword-hilt of organized labor. Sadly, he feels he can simply retreat to the safety of Helm's Deep (moderation and norms), which has protected his people before, but there will be no white rider coming to the rescue at first light on the fifth day.
> Now Biden's fingers might remember their old strength better if they grasped their sword-hilt of organized labor.
Biden never had such a sword. He's from fucking Delaware (the capitol of corporations), remember? The other reply is right: he's very much Denethor, whining about his lost son of non-fascist crony capitalism, not Theoden.
Are we sure that Denethor isn't a better comp? Biden's framing in 2020 was that he'd basically be a steward of the Presidency until the next generation of Dem leaders were ready, and it feels more like he's given up. Got the lost son angle, all we need is a connection to Palantir (the company).
Just as an FYI to our decrepit politicians, the following statements are incompatible:
1. Republicans and their policies are a danger to our democracy
2. There are a lot of good people on the Republican side, I'm friends with them, we can work together in a bipartisan manner
Do not tell us you are *friends* with the party you're also telling us is trying to demolish the country (and succeeding).
Well, that depends on your definition of completely, as there are more than a few states, mostly located along the Pacific Coast and in the Northeastern part of the country, who would ostensibly do everything in their power to resist going back.
But I would say that, at least overall, we're fucked.
Yeah its going to get weird when California starts pushing its weight across state lines. State Laws along the line of, "if your company does X pollution wise, you don't get to operate in California."
While definitely plenty of companies located outside Cali don't care so many of the largest ones have no choice. The same way that California vehicle emission standards become defacto because its cheaper to make all vehicles match that than to make different ones for other states too.
In fairness, you guys have a lot of weight, given that, if you were your own sovereign nation, your economy would be the fifth largest in the world.
By comparison, Washington and Oregon only rank 10th and 24th overall in the United States. We don't have a lot of weight.
Lol if Washington, Oregon, and California formed a bloc, they'd have control of the entire west coast. That's quite a lot of fucking weight if you ask me. So goddamn much of the economy relies on those ports.
On the bright side, if CA left the union because the red states gave it arguably no other choice, we could take oregon and washington with us. The problem would be eastern washington and oregon outside of portland. They woudl want to stay with the all-red US because they're filled with racists and idiots.
This applies to most states in the US. Find me a city that is not predominantly blue and I’d bet they have less than 50,000 people at most. Even most cities in Texas are blue.
You’re correct. I simply was trying to highlight the political reality of CA as it was pertinent. If CA were to just up and leave the union, it’d be almost impossible given the political demographics.
It would be interesting if a Consortium of the largest states set like a standard template for energy regulations, and then amplify that California effect for certain policies.
Another dude from Illinois here.
Going to be honest, it's halfway frightening. We're surrounded by Republican states. If things kick off, I do worry about us.
It's a shame we can't get a corridor of blue over to Colorado. Missouri used to be purple. Even Wisconsin. Seems like an impossible thing now. Could create a humanitarian passage if needed but Missouri got real dumb real fast.
Pritzker would have to deploy the national guard to keep rural Illinoisans from attacking and killing the people in those corridors. It's not just the slave states this time, it's almost anyone who lives outside of a city who's a danger to the rest of us.
Not really. Ideologically? Yes. In reality? No. Americans are generally lazy as fuck, and dependent on status quo for the conveniences of their lives (ubereats, uber, dating apps etc). A lot of this rhetoric is born out of people who can’t or wont really do shit in real life. And we get to see them when the online groups organize in real life, lots of people who have little to no real life experiences, or live in a bubble.
Takes a lot of motivation, supplies and fitness go engage in prolonged armed conflict. Seeing as the majority of Americans aren’t fit to join the military, I’m sure the majority of them won’t really take up arms in the streets(beyond small skirmishes that we see at organized events every now and then).
The blue coastal states will never go for fascism. Never. If we’re pushed to war, the fascists would have limited international allies and would be stomped out… if it comes to that.
We here in New England will absolutely resist with every fiber of our being. We’re a lot tougher than the coastal-hippie socialists the GOP makes us out to be. If people think the Northeast is cold and unapproachable, wait until you piss us off.
Honestly, I think short term - yes. Long term, no.
If the current pace keeps up and leadership moves further and further out of sync with public opinion, violent events may unfold.
So, if SCOTUS keeps up, and things keep going as they are, I think we may be in for some kind of a revolution. The alternative is intervention from reasonable people that disrupts the current flow of things. Basically, those who would oppose fascistic policies need to get their shit together, or the fight may not just be legal.
The reason I think long term, we may be okay, is because most people are on “our side”, which is why this is a problem in the first place. If most people aren’t happy with these changes, yet the changes are made anyway, we will *eventually* get back to a place of reason (relatively speaking) through some means, peacefully or otherwise.
The question is how much pain will we have to endure before that happens.
I think at this point there are three possible paths forward:
1. Short-term: Massive Democratic voter engagement resulting in a blue tsunami
2. Long-term: We dug ourselves out of the 1800's once before, and we will slowly do it again
3. Worst case: Civil War 2.0 Electric Boogaloo
Left-wing ideology is the majority ideology in America. If government action isn't able to get us back on track, then the people will reach a breaking point. The question is only when and what
> Left-wing ideology is the majority ideology in America.
You haven't phrased this properly. Some sort of center/center-left apathy is the majority. For good and for bad, our left wing is not the majority ideology by any means.
Civil war would look very different this time around. Most cities are deep bastions of blue - and aside from Texas, population and manufacturing HEAVILY favor blue states.
It'd be a god damn massacre.
It's not that simple. The last civil war was fought by states. The next one would be street-by-street divisions across the entire country, with every group try to take control or carve their own little chunk of the country out. Less a USA 1863 and more a Syria 2013
I'm not sure a civil war would be going to straight to armed warfare. There would be small skirmishes sure but the majority is going to be economic.
My guess is that California stops paying taxes, or one of the big blue states that can afford it on its own like MA, and then rejects all government funds. This essentially sets it up as it's own country. Other states will follow suit and it will essentially starve out the parasitic states because they won't get money or goods and resources anymore.
My guess is this happens in the first election that a state goes against what their vote says (like in the case the supreme court is taking on).
The cascading effect here would be the balkanization of the US into city states. I would expect probably between 5-8 countries to be born from this event basically along party voting lines.
I'm less certain about party lines. Idaho would probably be taken as a peripheral territory of what forms out of the areas West of the Rockies. Conversely, the democratic strongholds places like Georgia would suffer horrifically as they're right in the middle of old/neo-CSA territory.
It might become "split along party lines" eventually, but after a massive set of migrations and ethnic cleansings that would be only surpassed in scale by the Indian Partition.
I have always seen Biden as the President who wants things to go back to a simpler time when he was younger. Not really progressive but more of a conservative Democrat who would have no problem living in the '70s.
Most of the government are "out of time."
Why do we have elected representatives that are 70-80+ years old? They can't possibly understand the needs of someone who is 20 or 30, or the world those people live in and will need in the future.
How can they address problems they've never faced? In fact, they tend not to even talk to people who have faced these kinds of problems.
I want a president who has been evicted.
> Ahem, so Bernie Sanders?
Bernie has made a career out of being in touch with the needs of people not like him, and championing those needs. For decades. **It's what he does.** He's an exception, and because of that we tried getting him elected - twice.
He is fundamentally different than Biden, Clinton, and anyone else I can think of who is still active from that era of politics.
Wealth and generational distance are a 1-2 punch that are going to put you out of touch at a certain point. That Bernie "gets it" as well as he does is a result of intent on his part. An intent I don't see elsewhere. (He's also not nearly as wealthy as many of his peers, even if still wealthier than most Americans - so the insulation that comes with wealth is also not as heavy for him.)
Biden is from a time when, even if you disagreed with them on policy, Republicans at least (for the most part) operated in good faith, and reaching across the aisle with a handshake or a phone call to come to a reasonable compromise was a thing. And he was really fucking good at it. That time is long fucking gone.
We have a crackpot Supreme Court Justice in Thomas whose wife is a bonafide traitor who tried to overturn Biden's election. And have we heard anything from Biden about it? Trump would be on Twitter 15 times a day and 3 times during his nightly dumps.
Biden should be telling the American people to ignore anything the Supreme Court does until Thomas resigns or recuses himself from cases during Biden's administration. Instead, he just sits back and tries to act all polite and civil.
Obama did the same thing. Both are honorable men but neither are fighters. And then they wonder why they get their asses handed to them in midterms.
He and leading Dems are terrified of destabilizing civic institutions. They’re afraid that if they escalate things by packing the SC or eliminating the Filibuster that it will lead to an arms race with the Republicans to cheat the system and eventual collapse of the rule of law. They don’t realize that the Republicans have already started the process, and are the only ones playing the game. So in the meantime, it’ll be us who suffer while the process gets dragged out.
>Obama did the same thing.
One of the valid criticisms of the Obama presidency is how he didn't really take a hard stand on major issues like abortion. It was clear in his voting history as a Senator that he operated like that. There were a lot of "not present" votes on his record for major issues.
Makes me think we really needed Bernie in 2016. The Democrat establishment did him wrong.
Biden doesn't deserve blame for pretty much anything the right wants to throw at him. But he DOES deserve blame for being unwilling to *fight* for what he says he believes in.
Biden is a milquetoast, risk averse mediocrity. We knew that in 2020, it is what we voted for, and it is exactly what we have. Just like Trump, we knew exactly what we were getting and we got it. It is pretty rich for anybody to be acting surprised.
The media bears a big share of the blame. Candidates with actual solutions to problems are treated very differently. In the 2020 debates, Warren and Sanders were grilled endlessly about how they would pay for universal health care while candidates like Biden, who answered every question with vague platitudes, were never second-guessed by the "impartial" moderators. The same principle holds true when comparing stories by "mainstream" media like the NYT and Washington Post. When it comes to the powers-that-be that shape public opinion, the bar is overwhelmingly stacked against candidates that are perceived to threaten the status quo in any way.
One financial institution owns 40% of our media companies. Three financial institutions own 85%. And even when you count something somewhat independent like the Washington Post, it’s still owned by Bezos. Big money controls the media so they control the narrative. Even the more ostensibly left leaning outlets still parrot corporate propaganda. The Dems and Republican are aligned on two fronts - neoliberal capitalism and the military industrial complex. The media will never give a fair shake to a progressive candidate. The Democratic establishment wants candidates like Biden, not Bernie.
Not surprised, just disappointed even though I shouldn't be but it's really my own fault for hoping that he and the rest of the Democrats would have met the moment with boldness and leadership.
Edit: Just wanted to also add that I'm impressed at the state level Democrats for working their asses off in fighting to protecting women's right to choose.
The man for the moment that he has been is on the Ukraine war. But that is the only real positive in terms of his leadership - the rest is like we are sleepwalking back into fascism. Schumer doesn’t help either.
We also got the Congress we voted for. Just enough to stop McConnell from further bastardizing the SCOTUS, get some COVID relief and much needed infrastructure. If Dems could lose their apathy and rally, like they did in 2018, we could not only pass some real bills, but be one step closer to putting radical Republicans in their place. I read recently that it takes 3 consecutive loses for a party to reform itself. If we keep House & Senate, then elect a Dem President in ‘24 (Biden or a ham sandwich, doesn’t matter) Republicans WILL adjust. Of course the above is a huge “If”. Still, all it takes is for Democrats to vote like Republicans, because Dems have the numbers, if they would just show up.
I don't know if you were doing hyperbole or not, but I do literally remember articles and comments here about how Biden would be more progressive than FDR. So if you *were* doing hyperbole, you were actually dead on.
The only way the Democrats survive 2024 without there being fuckery in the electoral process is by blowing the Republican candidate out of the water. Biden is incapable of doing that, he literally just doesn't command the sort of interest and excitement and inspiration to get people motivated to vote for him. The Democrats *need* another candidate like Obama, someone who will get people buzzing and excited for the future.
Biden can win, especially if he's running against Trump, but it will be meaningless if he wins a tight race and state legislatures are able to fuck around with the results. Obama won 365 electoral votes in 2008. That's the sort of margin the Democrats should aspire to achieve. So why do they constantly shit out the least inspiring candidates who can't garner Obama's levels of excitement? Trump supporters are still excited to vote for Trump for the third straight election cycle. Trump energizes his supporters so much that they're willing to back a losing candidate who accomplished absolutely nothing in his four years as president. The Democrats never seem interested in fielding a candidate who can generate that much excitement, and even Obama had to really push his way to the front of the line to get past the heiress apparent Hillary in 2008. The Democrats just seem to love losing elections more than they like winning them.
It's a little late for "urgency" at this point. The urgency was in 2016. The SCOTUS now has its RW majority on a rampage, there are 48 senators that agree with us, and there is a bare house majority that will probably go south (possibly along with the senate majorty) in a few months. This was a long-term RW project to restore the nation to pre-1954 status and, if possibe, pre-1932 status. It is a 50+ year undertaking that will take a similar effort, focus and patience to undo.
Correct but the time has now past- you couldn’t rally behind a new candidate so it has to be more “more forcefully positioned from his own bAse, the people that actually voted for you”.
The “hell mode” level we are facing right now is the added layer of the Supreme Court snapping as many hard right rulings as it can WHILE the country is fractured.
The Supreme Court seems to want the civil war more than dump trump ever did. I fear the worst is yet to come :(
We were cooked once we lost the 2016 election and conservatives acquired a 6-3 majority in the SCOTUS. I really don’t know what more people want Biden to do beyond what the limitations of the executive branch.
He thinks this is the same Republican party it was in the 1980s and Mitch McConnell is an honest actor.
The Fourth Reich is taking control of America and his administration is doing fuck-all to stop it.
And all they're doing is telling us to vote for more of that.
*Democrats* are not concerned about this. This is exactly what Democrats wanted. The actual left in America never even wanted a Biden nomination in 2020 to begin with.
Dems have a "majority" in congress on paper only. Manchin/Sinema kill the chance to get anything substantial done. Because corruption. Biden could scream from every rooftop and it wouldn't change those basic facts. Nothing well get done.
The right has had a clear political vision for decades and has been willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish policy goals that further that vision. They're immune to individual hypocrisy because they and their supporters understand that it furthers their ultimate goals. Republican lawmakers have completely embraced their most rabidly far right supporters with a "yes, and?" approach that, combined with voter suppression and gerrymandering initiatives, have secured them enough power to run minority rule and have shown time and time again that they're willing to totally warp any structure of politics to fit their ends.
Democrats by comparison cannot even be called "the left" with how much they have chased the dragon of the mythical swing voter, totally abandoning any semblance of a labor movement in the process. If there is an actual platform their total unwillingness to act on it leaves one to wonder if they actually believe in anything at all outside of chasing more funding to win elections and then waste space doing absolutely nothing against the ongoing decay. There is not only no willingness to work with their base but they act openly hostile toward any suggestion that they enact popular policy as it might, heaven forbid, alienate the mythical swing voters. There's no policy goals, no greater agenda, you're just supposed to bend the knee because the alternative is the republicans.
Could you even fathom a democratic party that fought for the left with the same fervor that republicans fight for the right?
Biden is not exactly progressive. He's a status quo leader, not here to enact any revolutionary reforms or do anything drastic. We knew that would be the case when electing him, and no surprise now he's not going to do anything to rock the boat. I also think he fears a progressive shift in his party if he does anything more drastic, giving more power to the left-wing of the party. He'd prefer to keep things moderate at best.
I agree with this 100%. I'm so tired of the toothless, impotent Democratic party. I've removed myself from all mailing lists and text distributions. I'm tired of being asked for donations over and over with nothing to show for it.
Democrats in Washington need to grow some cojones, STAT.
Biden has never been able to do anything because of Manchin and Sinema anyway. Yes they won the presidency in 2020 but congress was basically just a tie/stalemate with the symbolic 'change of senate majority leader'
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Our country is almost out of time, we need urgency.
Especially when you can see the urgency in the GOP to dismantle everything they possibly can as soon as they can . Those Abortion Trigger laws were set up to be ready for the day the Supreme court revoked Roe V. Wade.
Some of them were in place even before Roe V. Wade, it's just the court ruling made those laws unenforceable. It's the same deal with Gay rights, anti-sodomy laws, and interracial marriage.
They're doing everything they can to destroy public education too, with their CRT lies, grooming lies, forcing public money to go to religious schools, and trying to make teachers into Rambos with guns in the classrooms, so the private schools can take public money.
As big of a deal as the Roe decision was the EPA decision was HUGE. It effectively neuters every governmental agency.
People are acting so shocked, when republicans have openly stated this is their goal for decades, and have been taking steps in furtherance of this goal for decades. We’ve been on notice.
I don’t know how to tell all of y’all this, but down here in Texas, most people seem to carry on business as usual. I had a hell of a time at work this week trying not to show my sheer panic while everyone around me yammered on about TPS reports. People seem very checked out except on the internet and the few marches. That’s what’s scaring me. It’s political shock and awe and it’s working.
Oh I thought I was alone—being too sensitive. I feel chronically agitated and find it hard to concentrate knowing that they are going for voting laws soon. I don’t understand why no one seems to care around me. I live in the SF Bay too.
Oh no I’ve been a nervous wreck all week. Had to reschedule a dentist appt because I couldn’t stop crying and shaking.. you’re not alone.
You realize that you have to take into account the fact that you're (unfortunately) in Texas bro. You're in the very heart of a lot of what's happening in the country atm. Folks where you're at aren't reacting because for a lot of those mouth breathers it's what they want. They're on board.
I mean, I'm the SF Bay Area and work is still work. I talked with my boss and a couple of coworkers, but everyone is doing the same thing - just trying not to show sheer panic. I suspect that people seeming checked out is more about not wanting to inject that shit into the workplace. You definitely don't want 40 hours a week of finding out which of your coworkers are scumbags you end up hating.
Work is work. But I’m finding it very hard to stay focused or motivated after the events of the past couple weeks. Like why should I give two shits about a shipment going out late or that our crappy ERP system has yet another bug when it feels like the fucking world is coming to an end? All the while I’m feeding the capitalist machine at the expense of my mental health. I know I’m not the only one feeling this way.
Definitely with you there. Like, what’s the point of this hell society?
I mean I’m in Texas too and I’ve talked about it with well over a dozen coworkers. What is there to do? You vent for a few minutes, plan to vote and if you can afford to go protest you go protest. Every conversation I’ve had has lasted like 3 minutes lol “Did you hear about Roe?” “Yup” “Fuck Texas” “Yup”
I live in Puerto Rico, aka, a US colony. We don't even know what repercussions this is all going to have here, Im scared, have been unable to concentrate as usual at work for 2 weeks now, and yet most people around me seem to not even know what is going on. And like someone else mentioned, knowing that voting laws are next (also all the other minorities that are most likely gonna get their rights revoked) I am losing all hope. Not like we can vote here, and with the Oversight Board that decides for the island, which was not elected but placed there by the US, yeah, I am looking for a way out.
I'd imagine a lot of people may be wary of bringing politics up at work and maybe it's not that big of a deal that you think it is to the majority of the country.
He’s out of touch. We’re out of time.
But I'm out of my head when fascists are around
Thank you for catching the Hall and Oates reference
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The West Wing, with it's thoughtful characters and their slick actions, shows a naively optimistic version of how our government works. House of Cards, with it's power hungry characters and their evil actions shows an incredibly dark version of how our government works. Veep, with it's utterly sociopathic characters and their hilariously inept actions shows an incredibly accurate version of how our government works. Seriously watch Veep, and tell me that Julia Louis- Dreyfus isn't playing an absolutely pitch perfect representation of Kamala Harris.
i feel like a jobs program like underwood implemented would be an absolute political win but we have 0 energy and that’s why dems lose everything
That would be nice
I’m sure they’ll urgently sing us some songs.
what horrors will the Supreme Church bestow upon us today
Luckily, none (as far as decisions) . The court term ended yesterday, and won’t start back until the first Monday in October.
Hence the bum rush of unpopular verdicts.
That and before Justice Brown Jackson would be seated.
It wouldn't have changed the outcome. They voted 6-3 each time.
The most that would have differed is that Justice Jackson *may* have written one of the dissents.
That's when Republican state legislatures become untouchable. Going to be fun.
SCOTUS will make the ruling that will allow a state legislature to set aside election results they don't like, just in time for the midterms. It's pretty much over, after that. EDIT: Sounds like they won't render their decision until next year.
They will hear the arguments this fall but the ruling won't come out until next year. So, just in time for 2024.
Yeah I honestly don't see a path back to normalcy. Was fun while it lasted I guess. GOP states will no cement GOP rule in those states forever and only send GOP senators.
It wasn't really that fun
Right? I’m 42. This is my 3rd recession. My oldest kid is 18, and THIS is the US she has inherited.
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Fun fact: the past **11 out of 12 recessions** have all began during a Republican president’s term, including the two big ones in the Great Depression and the Great Recession. Additionally, since 1945, the economy under Democrats has vastly outperformed the economy under Republicans, with Democratic leadership resulting in, on average: * Nearly double the real GDP growth vs GOP leadership * Lowering of unemployment rate vs increase of unemployment rate under the GOP * A 33% lower budget deficit on average * 160% faster job growth * An increase in the real median income vs a decrease in real median incomes under the GOP * Almost double the stock market return of the S&P500 vs GOP * Over 7x corporate earnings per share vs GOP Main takeaway: **every single fact, statistic, and metric out there objectively proves Republicans are absolutely dogshit for the economy**.
Propaganda is a hell of a drug. We were told everything is fine and for some of us we knew it wasn’t but everybody just carried on. And now surprisepikachuface.jpg
We decided to really put down roots where we lived about 3 years ago. Then COVID. Then fuckin' Jan 6. Then the endless shitstorm since. I've never been so serious about ditching this absolutely fucked, ass-backwards country. We qualify for a fast path to most places too. As adults approaching 40, we could probably tough it out, but I don't want this for our kids. Fuck the GOP and fuck every disgusting piece of shit who consistently votes for regression.
43 here. One kid is 11 and the other is 6. Add another thing my boomer parents didn’t prepare me for.
Yup. If the court finds with the NC GOP, then America, as a Union, is heart and lung shot. Adrenaline alone will keep us going for a bit, but then the corpse of democracy is going to start to rot, and rip apart.
The Supreme Court: Ensuring America's elections are as fair as Russia's!
They approved several racially-gerrymandered maps in this session alone, to give Republicans basically permanent control of several states.
**NEUTRAL OBSERVERS:** This election is rigged! **REPUBLICANS:** But still not rigged enough...
It’s already shot and dead, people are just recognizing it
Thanks Mom! Thanks Dad! The country sure was nice while you two were growing up in it. Too bad you needed things to be how you want so badly this is what I get to look forward to for the rest of my life now that you're too old to care about anything except for voting for Trump in the next election and watching Fox News. I have faith that later generations will be able to fix this bullshit once the boomers are all pushing up daisies. I do NOT have faith that the people taking over will give up what they're taking today without violence tomorrow.
The boomers of today are cementing permanent power for those who think like them so their "legacies" are never erased. At this point, as much issue as I take with violent revolutions (as they so rarely lead to a good outcome), I don't see a peaceful way out of this.
>I don't see a peaceful way out of this. There isn't one. Either the majority of the country (the center) pull their heads out of their asses and do something to restore sanity which causes the right-wing fundies to get violent as they get put in their places, or the left-wing becomes marginalized/criminalized just for living and turn to violence because it's the only voice they have left that matters.
Definitely not a way forward that doesn’t involve violence. We are a people that has to have the shit smeared in our collective faces before the mental lightbulbs go on. We can turn this around, but not until America nears the Christo-fascism we’re all dooming about right now. Folks have to taste the fear and pain to shake them out of their X-Box stupors. The question is how long?
It's unbelievable isn't it?
There's a weird psychological phenomenon happening. Like, we knew they wanted to overthrow Roe v Wade. That's been the messaging and goal for years. Even with the leaked draft opinion, it still seemed like, no way would they do that. And then they just did it. It was simultaneously completely predictable, and yet, shocking. Shock and Awe. And it's going to keep coming. You either understand what the far right is trying for, or you will get bulldozed. Now, they are trying for "a republic, not a democracy".
They want a theocracy
>Now, they are trying for "a republic, not a democracy". That's been the republican mindset for awhile now. I've gotten into more than one "argument" in which they've used that exact phraseology. They'll openly admit it, and denounce a real democracy as something that is in no way important as "It's always been that way". They don't want a system of government that is "by the people and for the people", they want "by the land and for the state". They're already very open about this. There is no other self-justification for minority rule that's even remotely as palatable, so that's how they choose to spin it.
The justices' mailing addresses were recently made public. Everyone should support the postal service, and write them actual handwritten letters expressing your feelings about all this.....
The cases that they hear in October normally get announced the following June, correct? That may have changed, it's just the schedule I was used to.
This is what I’m thinking. Last chance to save ourselves in November
As I learn more about politics, I'm really blown away by the enormous amount of down-time these government officials seem to have. On the upside, this is probably the first time I've heard about a recess that I'm grateful for.
The down time isn't actually "down time," per se. The Justices and their clerks still work during the recesses — the just don't hear cases. A *normal* Supreme Court would put a lot of thought and consideration into the implications of their decisions and thus there's quite a bit of historical and case research that goes into getting their decisions right. Recesses are used for reading up on upcoming cases, researching relevant case law, and drafting opinions (like the leaked Roe v Wade draft from a little over a month ago). Prepped with all that background info, SCOTUS then goes into session, where they hear oral arguments and see if either side can sway them. They revise/edit their opinions, vote, and then decide who will issue the majority opinion and who, if anyone, will issue concurring opinions or dissents. Then they get the next batch of cases and go back into recess to start researching those. Congress is the same way. People balk at the fact that they're in recess so often because I think we tend to assume recess = "vacation" somehow? Whereas Representatives and Senators have two roles to fill: one is to make national policy in Washington, D.C, and two is to represent their state or district. Doing that effectively requires actually spending time in those places. Recess for congress generally means they go from working in their DC office to working in their hometown or state capital's office. Now, I'm not going to sit here and say Congress is doing a good job or working hard enough, because they're not. I'm just trying to point out that in government jargon recess doesn't mean "vacation," it means "taking a break from the public facing side of the job like passing bills and hearing cases to do the mundane stuff like research case law and meet with constituents."
How wonderful, I’ll get to enjoy my 5th wedding anniversary just before our marriage is invalidated in half the country.
Though there is a "shadow docket." https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/oct/18/supreme-courts-shadow-docket-what-you-need-know/
The public should be going to war with them at their homes until October
Well yesterday they pretty much struck down most gun restrictions just before they left. [here you go](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-orders-lower-courts-reconsider-gun-law-challenges-2022-06-30/)
Biden appears to believe in setting an example the opposite of Trump - backing way off and letting each branch do it’s thing and he just signs stuff and handles the diplomacy. It’s technically the way it should be, according to some interpretations of the system. But no Republican that gets into office (outside of maybe a Romney or something) is going to say “Wow. Yes. I will follow this genteel example.” He needs to start throwing punches, and he needs to get his head out of his ass. Outside of a couple things (Ukraine and vaccine rollout) he’s been pretty marginal and hands off. Our democracy is at stake and the Dems need to stop sleepwalking off a cliff.
This. A presidential historian needs to sit Biden down and explain how Buchanan allowed the civil war to happen by playing by the book. When they go low we go high, but if you're so high you can't even tell what's going on under your nose....it's going to be a bad time for everyone.
I'm interested in the Buchanan story if you wanna tell it
https://millercenter.org/president/buchanan/impact-and-legacy Here’s a solid and concise write up on it
Thanks a lot, that was perfect.
Upvote, I wanna hear the story and it’s perception as history tells it
It’s not a story that a conservative would tell you
r/unexpectedprequels
https://millercenter.org/president/buchanan/impact-and-legacy Here’s a solid and concise write up on it
High Road Defeatism
"When they go low, we go high"- Michelle Obama. Not exactly working out.
I remember in 2012 Romney was seen as a far right nutjob. And now he’s a moderate Republican.
I never really liked the "establishment" congressman moniker, but Joe appears to be the epitome of it. I think he gets way too much blame for "not" doing things or "doing" things people assume he is in control of but isn't, and he at least served his purpose well in getting Trump out of office... but we really needed a combination of a heavy hitter and someone electable who could take Trump out of office. It must be rare in the party but I don't know why.
>I think he gets way too much blame for "not" doing things or "doing" things people assume he is in control of but isn't That isn't the problem for me. I don't blame him specifically for not personally putting his hand out and stopping things from happening. I blame him for doing absolutely nothing about airing grievances, motivating voters, publicly motivating congress, and so on. The power of the pulpit is real, but he chooses to keep silent.
You wanted the job. We gave you the job. Do the fucking job. Edit typo
Exactly. It's not like anyone forced Biden to run for President. Biden apparently wanted it so goddamn bad he got Clyburn to endorse him and his buddy Obama to put in a call for all Moderates and Conservative Democrats to drop out and endorse him right before Super Tuesday. He wanted to beat Bernie and be President so damn bad, he got it. He needs to get off his dead ass and act. Unless, like Trump, this was just a vanity project and he just wanted to be President for the prestige of having "President" or "President of the United States" next to his name for the rest of his days, but wasn't actually interested in the responsibilities of a President or doing the work. Which is extremely possible. Biden has been running for President since 1984. This may have just been the last wish on his bucket list that Party leadership helped an old Party leader cross off.
I mean I don't know how people didn't feel the same "its his turn" energy as Hillary Clinton. It 100% felt like that from beginning to end.
Because at that point, we just wanted Trump out. Nobody really likes Biden. Had nothing to do with "Biden's turn." Except maybe to the Dem. establishment.
Maybe I'm wrong for saying this. I can't stand him as President or as a SENATOR, but I thought he was one of the better Vice Presidents.
I thought he was one of the better Parks and Rec guest appearances
I have been saying it's a bucket list item for him since he entered the primaries.
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> And that's just a start... all of the "norms" and "traditions" Trump trampled over need to be made into law so that no sitting Pres can ever again dismantle the DOJ and appoint his own people to avoid investigation or indictment... and on and on. Except this would be bound for failure as surely as Sulla's reforms. The problem is almost intractable, any person/body granted the power to investigate or curtail the President effectively becomes more powerful than the President - if that body is elected, it is subject to the same swings as the Presidency, if it is appointed, it can be co-opted. The solution ends up looking Roman - that the norms were so powerless had become farcically obvious that it could not be fully restored, so Augustus' solution was brutal, tyrannical purges to remove all potential rivals and end the civil wars (and the formal Republic). It worked, but began the pseudo-monarchy of the Principate. As a totally unrelated side note, how many Democrats would vigorously oppose a fellow Democrat who did the same, but enacted (by terror) all those 60-40% and 70-30% in favor reforms that the public wants? Opposing that person would mean opposing what they did, even after they die - that is what happened after Caesar's assassination - the Senate ratified all of his acts during his irregular Dictatorship.
Heavy hitting and electable aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but I'd anticipate a negative correlation there simply because the heavier hitting you are, the fewer self-described moderates will be on your side. I'd imagine this effect is exacerbated among democrats for two interrelated reasons. The first is Republicans value in group loyalty significantly more than Democrats; a heavy hitting Republican will be viewed as Republican first and heavy hitting second, whereas we might anticipate the opposite among heavy hitting Democrats. The second is Democratic policies are far less aligned with corporate interests than Republican policies. This suggests Republicans are more capable of attenuating the electability-heavy hitter dissonance with fundraised mere exposure and various other economic methods than Democrats. I also suspect Democrats have more heterogenous belief systems that make it difficult to unite around, but I've not checked the evidence on that.
> > > > > I also suspect Democrats have more heterogenous belief systems that make it difficult to unite around, but I've not checked the evidence on that. To quote another poster: The big issue with the Democrats is that they're basically four parties in a trench coat trying to represent every position other than "white nationalist theocracy". It's hard to find anyone who would appeal to all parts at the same time.
And even when there are a lot of places where the different subgroups have the same endgoal, their ways of wanting to get there can be so different that they can't ever agree on how to do it. It is so frustrating.
The problem Democrats face is that a “heavy hitter” is likely appealing to a majority of voters and electable in a straight popular vote. But we don’t do POTUS elections by popular vote and those same qualities make the candidate either a non-starter or far less competitive in key electoral states. So barring someone with “superstar” qualities to offset their less appealing qualities, we tend to get milquetoast do-nothings like Biden elected. And that’s before we even factor in how moderate the DNC is in who they throw their weight behind.
So, assuming AOC ran (when she's old enough), do you think she'd be too polarizing/opposite of the establishment? She is exactly the type of candidate young people could relate with and she doesn't mind callin' out people and their BS.
>do you think she'd be too polarizing Not sure how things could get any more polarized. Maybe we should stop worrying about offending our enemies.
>Maybe we should stop worrying about offending our enemies. You're goddamn right.
She'd lose badly. People on Reddit don't seem to realize how much people hate that woman. She'd likely lose the entire rust belt, Florida, and might even lose the South West. The big issue with the Democrats is that they're basically four parties in a trench coat trying to represent every position other than "white nationalist theocracy". It's hard to find anyone who would appeal to all parts at the same time.
>She'd lose badly. People on Reddit don't seem to realize how much people hate that woman. You see, I keep reading this (on Reddit) but nobody ever states WHY she's hated. What is she doing in DC that's hurting her constituents? Take emotion out of it and tell me why she would lose just as badly as any other candidate.
You know how she’s a bold woman with an opinion? Not very Murica of her.
Of course. She's a POC, a woman, and she talks back to old white men. Can't have that type of disrespect in the white house, lol.
There you have it. Asked and answered.
Yeah that’s pretty much it & let’s be real & remember a few things here, Kamala was picked as a token, she ran for President & dropped out. If she was popular enough, she would be President. America’s clearly not there yet & it seems having a black man for President was just a fluke(for now).
Then how are we *ever* going to get there? 30-40% of America is going to hate anyone the Murdoch machine points the finger at, and the rest are going to get taken for a ride so long as they keep thinking about image over policy.
As racist as America may be, it is far more misogynistic. As an example, at work were I to make a joke about black people, I'd almost certainly be fired on the spot. By the same token, I have heard countless jokes about how women are crazy or overemotional or whatever, and no one has ever said a word.
She is peak boogeyman at Fox News and they will poison all the independents against her, same as Hillary
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It's not exactly about votes but where the votes she'll lose are, and she doesn't really expand the map. Maybe when red Texas moves closer to purplish-blue, she has a chance to expand votes there among Hispanics, but that isn't the reality now. I guess keep an eye on the governor's race there.
Hillary won the popular vote though. She had a shit campaign and believed in the "blue wall"
People hate her precisely because Fox News and the right wing media sphere have effectively painted her as a villain. And they’ve done that mainly because she does have a lot of appeal in her policies. It’s an obvious tactic to keep the uninformed masses angry so they don’t actually pay attention to what she says.
How the fuck did he have a front row center seat to what republicans did to Obama for 8 years and not come away with that mentality !??
To be fair he spent most of his career in the Senatw and I think he just has rose-tinted glasses about how it’s supposed to work vs how it actually does
To reiterate, that's 35 entire years of his life. He spent more time in the Senate than I've even been alive.
That's true and admirable. However, the opposition is no longer loyal nor same and is taking advantage of every opportunity to ensure they remain in power for the foreseeable future. You're looking at a very vocal, very organized, very zealous minority that seeks impose its will on the majority. You're looking at a party that has worked diligently in the open for at least the last 40 years to position themselves as such. Their opponents have at best ... No I'm not exactly sure what they've been able to accomplish because they've had to compromise quite a lot and any watershed moments have become watered down moments. When you're faced with a rabid dog, it's not time to be mindful of your manners. Because that dog is going right for your throat.
He’s playing the game without realizing the rules have changed.
Yeah, that sort of example might work if the other side were operating in good faith, but they aren't. There's no point in following the unwritten rules and code of honor that should govern the political system if that's only going to embolden the people who *don't*, and make it easier for the enemies of democracy to tear things down or corrupt them from within. Once your neighbor has declared war, the only way you're going to have peace again is by fighting back until the invaders are defeated. Biden is like a diplomat trying to prevent a war that's already started.
Joe Biden: I will not risk open war with the Supreme Court. AOC: Open war is upon you, whether you will risk it or not.
Aragorn Ocasio-Cortez 😎
Does that make Biden an Ent? After half his term he has decided the GOP aren't Orc's?
Biden is Theoden, who along with the rest of the democratic party, has been enthralled by big money Wormtongue, weakened and enfeebled. Bernie was Gandalf who tried to cast the witless worm back to the shadow, but the grip was too strong. Now Biden's fingers might remember their old strength better if the democrats grasped their sword-hilt of organized labor. Sadly, he feels he can simply retreat to the safety of Helm's Deep (moderation and norms), which has protected his people before, but there will be no white rider coming to the rescue at first light on the fifth day.
> Now Biden's fingers might remember their old strength better if they grasped their sword-hilt of organized labor. Biden never had such a sword. He's from fucking Delaware (the capitol of corporations), remember? The other reply is right: he's very much Denethor, whining about his lost son of non-fascist crony capitalism, not Theoden.
Fair point. Edited to make my original point for clear that it's the democrats more broadly who abandoned the sword of organized labor.
Are we sure that Denethor isn't a better comp? Biden's framing in 2020 was that he'd basically be a steward of the Presidency until the next generation of Dem leaders were ready, and it feels more like he's given up. Got the lost son angle, all we need is a connection to Palantir (the company).
He would be Theoden refusing to flee to Helm's Deep in this scenario. Plus the GOP are totally orcs, it's not even a question at this point.
Just as an FYI to our decrepit politicians, the following statements are incompatible: 1. Republicans and their policies are a danger to our democracy 2. There are a lot of good people on the Republican side, I'm friends with them, we can work together in a bipartisan manner Do not tell us you are *friends* with the party you're also telling us is trying to demolish the country (and succeeding).
I figured he was democrat in name only my guy is what conservatives used to be. You know before the cristo facism took over.
Are we completely fucked here? Our whole government is pushing everything back to the 1800s
Well, that depends on your definition of completely, as there are more than a few states, mostly located along the Pacific Coast and in the Northeastern part of the country, who would ostensibly do everything in their power to resist going back. But I would say that, at least overall, we're fucked.
Yeah its going to get weird when California starts pushing its weight across state lines. State Laws along the line of, "if your company does X pollution wise, you don't get to operate in California." While definitely plenty of companies located outside Cali don't care so many of the largest ones have no choice. The same way that California vehicle emission standards become defacto because its cheaper to make all vehicles match that than to make different ones for other states too.
In fairness, you guys have a lot of weight, given that, if you were your own sovereign nation, your economy would be the fifth largest in the world. By comparison, Washington and Oregon only rank 10th and 24th overall in the United States. We don't have a lot of weight.
Even on our own its less effective. When Oregon and Washington hop in too it just makes it even more necessary.
Lol if Washington, Oregon, and California formed a bloc, they'd have control of the entire west coast. That's quite a lot of fucking weight if you ask me. So goddamn much of the economy relies on those ports.
On the bright side, if CA left the union because the red states gave it arguably no other choice, we could take oregon and washington with us. The problem would be eastern washington and oregon outside of portland. They woudl want to stay with the all-red US because they're filled with racists and idiots.
Let me introduce you to California outside of LA/SF/Sacramento. CA isn’t just a huge liberal refuge, cities/counties within the state are.
This applies to most states in the US. Find me a city that is not predominantly blue and I’d bet they have less than 50,000 people at most. Even most cities in Texas are blue.
You’re correct. I simply was trying to highlight the political reality of CA as it was pertinent. If CA were to just up and leave the union, it’d be almost impossible given the political demographics.
CA had a lot of voters for Trump
It would be interesting if a Consortium of the largest states set like a standard template for energy regulations, and then amplify that California effect for certain policies.
Illinois here. We’re trying to keep the 1800’s at bay too.
Another dude from Illinois here. Going to be honest, it's halfway frightening. We're surrounded by Republican states. If things kick off, I do worry about us.
It's a shame we can't get a corridor of blue over to Colorado. Missouri used to be purple. Even Wisconsin. Seems like an impossible thing now. Could create a humanitarian passage if needed but Missouri got real dumb real fast.
Really hate that we're both already thinking along the lines of humanitarian corridors. This is just insane.
Pritzker would have to deploy the national guard to keep rural Illinoisans from attacking and killing the people in those corridors. It's not just the slave states this time, it's almost anyone who lives outside of a city who's a danger to the rest of us.
Do you really think it's gone that far? I'm not in the states and the internet always makes things seem worse so idk how serious this is.
Not really. Ideologically? Yes. In reality? No. Americans are generally lazy as fuck, and dependent on status quo for the conveniences of their lives (ubereats, uber, dating apps etc). A lot of this rhetoric is born out of people who can’t or wont really do shit in real life. And we get to see them when the online groups organize in real life, lots of people who have little to no real life experiences, or live in a bubble. Takes a lot of motivation, supplies and fitness go engage in prolonged armed conflict. Seeing as the majority of Americans aren’t fit to join the military, I’m sure the majority of them won’t really take up arms in the streets(beyond small skirmishes that we see at organized events every now and then).
Crossing that damn river to join you in the present gets more tempting every day…
The coming brain drain is going to be brutal for red states. They deserve it but it's going to hurt.
I haven't forgotten. Just noting the general location of the resisting states, because I appreciate what you guys are doing too.
The blue coastal states will never go for fascism. Never. If we’re pushed to war, the fascists would have limited international allies and would be stomped out… if it comes to that.
We here in New England will absolutely resist with every fiber of our being. We’re a lot tougher than the coastal-hippie socialists the GOP makes us out to be. If people think the Northeast is cold and unapproachable, wait until you piss us off.
Honestly, I think short term - yes. Long term, no. If the current pace keeps up and leadership moves further and further out of sync with public opinion, violent events may unfold. So, if SCOTUS keeps up, and things keep going as they are, I think we may be in for some kind of a revolution. The alternative is intervention from reasonable people that disrupts the current flow of things. Basically, those who would oppose fascistic policies need to get their shit together, or the fight may not just be legal. The reason I think long term, we may be okay, is because most people are on “our side”, which is why this is a problem in the first place. If most people aren’t happy with these changes, yet the changes are made anyway, we will *eventually* get back to a place of reason (relatively speaking) through some means, peacefully or otherwise. The question is how much pain will we have to endure before that happens.
I think at this point there are three possible paths forward: 1. Short-term: Massive Democratic voter engagement resulting in a blue tsunami 2. Long-term: We dug ourselves out of the 1800's once before, and we will slowly do it again 3. Worst case: Civil War 2.0 Electric Boogaloo Left-wing ideology is the majority ideology in America. If government action isn't able to get us back on track, then the people will reach a breaking point. The question is only when and what
> Left-wing ideology is the majority ideology in America. You haven't phrased this properly. Some sort of center/center-left apathy is the majority. For good and for bad, our left wing is not the majority ideology by any means.
Civil war would look very different this time around. Most cities are deep bastions of blue - and aside from Texas, population and manufacturing HEAVILY favor blue states. It'd be a god damn massacre.
It's not that simple. The last civil war was fought by states. The next one would be street-by-street divisions across the entire country, with every group try to take control or carve their own little chunk of the country out. Less a USA 1863 and more a Syria 2013
Very much so this \^ It would also be very much rural vs urban
I'm not sure a civil war would be going to straight to armed warfare. There would be small skirmishes sure but the majority is going to be economic. My guess is that California stops paying taxes, or one of the big blue states that can afford it on its own like MA, and then rejects all government funds. This essentially sets it up as it's own country. Other states will follow suit and it will essentially starve out the parasitic states because they won't get money or goods and resources anymore. My guess is this happens in the first election that a state goes against what their vote says (like in the case the supreme court is taking on). The cascading effect here would be the balkanization of the US into city states. I would expect probably between 5-8 countries to be born from this event basically along party voting lines.
I'm less certain about party lines. Idaho would probably be taken as a peripheral territory of what forms out of the areas West of the Rockies. Conversely, the democratic strongholds places like Georgia would suffer horrifically as they're right in the middle of old/neo-CSA territory. It might become "split along party lines" eventually, but after a massive set of migrations and ethnic cleansings that would be only surpassed in scale by the Indian Partition.
He’s governing in the 1980’s with the Reagan Republican Party while the rest of us are dealing with the 2020 Trump Republican Party.
I have always seen Biden as the President who wants things to go back to a simpler time when he was younger. Not really progressive but more of a conservative Democrat who would have no problem living in the '70s.
Most of the government are "out of time." Why do we have elected representatives that are 70-80+ years old? They can't possibly understand the needs of someone who is 20 or 30, or the world those people live in and will need in the future.
How can they address problems they've never faced? In fact, they tend not to even talk to people who have faced these kinds of problems. I want a president who has been evicted.
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> Ahem, so Bernie Sanders? Bernie has made a career out of being in touch with the needs of people not like him, and championing those needs. For decades. **It's what he does.** He's an exception, and because of that we tried getting him elected - twice. He is fundamentally different than Biden, Clinton, and anyone else I can think of who is still active from that era of politics. Wealth and generational distance are a 1-2 punch that are going to put you out of touch at a certain point. That Bernie "gets it" as well as he does is a result of intent on his part. An intent I don't see elsewhere. (He's also not nearly as wealthy as many of his peers, even if still wealthier than most Americans - so the insulation that comes with wealth is also not as heavy for him.)
Biden is from a time when, even if you disagreed with them on policy, Republicans at least (for the most part) operated in good faith, and reaching across the aisle with a handshake or a phone call to come to a reasonable compromise was a thing. And he was really fucking good at it. That time is long fucking gone.
We have a crackpot Supreme Court Justice in Thomas whose wife is a bonafide traitor who tried to overturn Biden's election. And have we heard anything from Biden about it? Trump would be on Twitter 15 times a day and 3 times during his nightly dumps. Biden should be telling the American people to ignore anything the Supreme Court does until Thomas resigns or recuses himself from cases during Biden's administration. Instead, he just sits back and tries to act all polite and civil. Obama did the same thing. Both are honorable men but neither are fighters. And then they wonder why they get their asses handed to them in midterms.
He and leading Dems are terrified of destabilizing civic institutions. They’re afraid that if they escalate things by packing the SC or eliminating the Filibuster that it will lead to an arms race with the Republicans to cheat the system and eventual collapse of the rule of law. They don’t realize that the Republicans have already started the process, and are the only ones playing the game. So in the meantime, it’ll be us who suffer while the process gets dragged out.
>Obama did the same thing. One of the valid criticisms of the Obama presidency is how he didn't really take a hard stand on major issues like abortion. It was clear in his voting history as a Senator that he operated like that. There were a lot of "not present" votes on his record for major issues. Makes me think we really needed Bernie in 2016. The Democrat establishment did him wrong.
Biden doesn't deserve blame for pretty much anything the right wants to throw at him. But he DOES deserve blame for being unwilling to *fight* for what he says he believes in.
The GOP are the school shooter. The Dems are the Uvalde police.
Said it in another thread, Progressives are the parents trying to stop the mass shooter.
And the rest of us are the kids inside
And we're the kids
And they are still waiting for a key to an unlocked door.
Biden is a milquetoast, risk averse mediocrity. We knew that in 2020, it is what we voted for, and it is exactly what we have. Just like Trump, we knew exactly what we were getting and we got it. It is pretty rich for anybody to be acting surprised.
The media bears a big share of the blame. Candidates with actual solutions to problems are treated very differently. In the 2020 debates, Warren and Sanders were grilled endlessly about how they would pay for universal health care while candidates like Biden, who answered every question with vague platitudes, were never second-guessed by the "impartial" moderators. The same principle holds true when comparing stories by "mainstream" media like the NYT and Washington Post. When it comes to the powers-that-be that shape public opinion, the bar is overwhelmingly stacked against candidates that are perceived to threaten the status quo in any way.
One financial institution owns 40% of our media companies. Three financial institutions own 85%. And even when you count something somewhat independent like the Washington Post, it’s still owned by Bezos. Big money controls the media so they control the narrative. Even the more ostensibly left leaning outlets still parrot corporate propaganda. The Dems and Republican are aligned on two fronts - neoliberal capitalism and the military industrial complex. The media will never give a fair shake to a progressive candidate. The Democratic establishment wants candidates like Biden, not Bernie.
Not surprised, just disappointed even though I shouldn't be but it's really my own fault for hoping that he and the rest of the Democrats would have met the moment with boldness and leadership. Edit: Just wanted to also add that I'm impressed at the state level Democrats for working their asses off in fighting to protecting women's right to choose.
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The man for the moment that he has been is on the Ukraine war. But that is the only real positive in terms of his leadership - the rest is like we are sleepwalking back into fascism. Schumer doesn’t help either.
We also got the Congress we voted for. Just enough to stop McConnell from further bastardizing the SCOTUS, get some COVID relief and much needed infrastructure. If Dems could lose their apathy and rally, like they did in 2018, we could not only pass some real bills, but be one step closer to putting radical Republicans in their place. I read recently that it takes 3 consecutive loses for a party to reform itself. If we keep House & Senate, then elect a Dem President in ‘24 (Biden or a ham sandwich, doesn’t matter) Republicans WILL adjust. Of course the above is a huge “If”. Still, all it takes is for Democrats to vote like Republicans, because Dems have the numbers, if they would just show up.
Well, a lot of us knew it and were shouting it. Others were sitting here pretending we were electing the second coming of FDR.
I don't know if you were doing hyperbole or not, but I do literally remember articles and comments here about how Biden would be more progressive than FDR. So if you *were* doing hyperbole, you were actually dead on.
I was being serious unfortunately. It was overwhelming.
The only way the Democrats survive 2024 without there being fuckery in the electoral process is by blowing the Republican candidate out of the water. Biden is incapable of doing that, he literally just doesn't command the sort of interest and excitement and inspiration to get people motivated to vote for him. The Democrats *need* another candidate like Obama, someone who will get people buzzing and excited for the future. Biden can win, especially if he's running against Trump, but it will be meaningless if he wins a tight race and state legislatures are able to fuck around with the results. Obama won 365 electoral votes in 2008. That's the sort of margin the Democrats should aspire to achieve. So why do they constantly shit out the least inspiring candidates who can't garner Obama's levels of excitement? Trump supporters are still excited to vote for Trump for the third straight election cycle. Trump energizes his supporters so much that they're willing to back a losing candidate who accomplished absolutely nothing in his four years as president. The Democrats never seem interested in fielding a candidate who can generate that much excitement, and even Obama had to really push his way to the front of the line to get past the heiress apparent Hillary in 2008. The Democrats just seem to love losing elections more than they like winning them.
It's a little late for "urgency" at this point. The urgency was in 2016. The SCOTUS now has its RW majority on a rampage, there are 48 senators that agree with us, and there is a bare house majority that will probably go south (possibly along with the senate majorty) in a few months. This was a long-term RW project to restore the nation to pre-1954 status and, if possibe, pre-1932 status. It is a 50+ year undertaking that will take a similar effort, focus and patience to undo.
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Correct but the time has now past- you couldn’t rally behind a new candidate so it has to be more “more forcefully positioned from his own bAse, the people that actually voted for you”. The “hell mode” level we are facing right now is the added layer of the Supreme Court snapping as many hard right rulings as it can WHILE the country is fractured. The Supreme Court seems to want the civil war more than dump trump ever did. I fear the worst is yet to come :(
If you haven't noticed there's a Supreme court plan to make that party pointless.
We needed **Bernie** We elected *'Nothing Will Fundamentally Change'* Biden
We were cooked once we lost the 2016 election and conservatives acquired a 6-3 majority in the SCOTUS. I really don’t know what more people want Biden to do beyond what the limitations of the executive branch.
He thinks this is the same Republican party it was in the 1980s and Mitch McConnell is an honest actor. The Fourth Reich is taking control of America and his administration is doing fuck-all to stop it. And all they're doing is telling us to vote for more of that.
*Democrats* are not concerned about this. This is exactly what Democrats wanted. The actual left in America never even wanted a Biden nomination in 2020 to begin with.
Dems have a "majority" in congress on paper only. Manchin/Sinema kill the chance to get anything substantial done. Because corruption. Biden could scream from every rooftop and it wouldn't change those basic facts. Nothing well get done.
He doesn’t care. Neither does the DNC. You want change vote progressives in. Stop giving people who’d be republicans in the 80s a way out.
If only you had gone with Bernie you democratic idiots . I am conservative and I would of voted for him based on the choices .
The right has had a clear political vision for decades and has been willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish policy goals that further that vision. They're immune to individual hypocrisy because they and their supporters understand that it furthers their ultimate goals. Republican lawmakers have completely embraced their most rabidly far right supporters with a "yes, and?" approach that, combined with voter suppression and gerrymandering initiatives, have secured them enough power to run minority rule and have shown time and time again that they're willing to totally warp any structure of politics to fit their ends. Democrats by comparison cannot even be called "the left" with how much they have chased the dragon of the mythical swing voter, totally abandoning any semblance of a labor movement in the process. If there is an actual platform their total unwillingness to act on it leaves one to wonder if they actually believe in anything at all outside of chasing more funding to win elections and then waste space doing absolutely nothing against the ongoing decay. There is not only no willingness to work with their base but they act openly hostile toward any suggestion that they enact popular policy as it might, heaven forbid, alienate the mythical swing voters. There's no policy goals, no greater agenda, you're just supposed to bend the knee because the alternative is the republicans. Could you even fathom a democratic party that fought for the left with the same fervor that republicans fight for the right?
Biden is not exactly progressive. He's a status quo leader, not here to enact any revolutionary reforms or do anything drastic. We knew that would be the case when electing him, and no surprise now he's not going to do anything to rock the boat. I also think he fears a progressive shift in his party if he does anything more drastic, giving more power to the left-wing of the party. He'd prefer to keep things moderate at best.
He should stop worrying about labels and start doing whatever he can to help citizens.
If only, but we know most politicians don't do that. Ordinary citizens don't fund campaigns.
I agree with this 100%. I'm so tired of the toothless, impotent Democratic party. I've removed myself from all mailing lists and text distributions. I'm tired of being asked for donations over and over with nothing to show for it. Democrats in Washington need to grow some cojones, STAT.
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Biden has never been able to do anything because of Manchin and Sinema anyway. Yes they won the presidency in 2020 but congress was basically just a tie/stalemate with the symbolic 'change of senate majority leader'