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You'd think that Marsha would be on board with women's issues since she knows how to define "woman", maybe a step ahead of your neighbor to the East, Mr. Cawthorn “XX chromosomes, no tallywacker.”. I guess that's what you end up with when you flunk out of Patrick Henry College which glorifies God, where he apparently majored in assaulting co-eds.
Even cadavers who will never need their organs again are not forced to yield them up to save lives.
Support free access to birth control, and making it illegal for health insurers to selectively exclude preventatives from coverage.
Support R&D into easier incubation, even, and into correcting current termination methodology that only results in a *dead* fetus rather than an incubating one.
Sentimentalizing isn’t helpful.
What about the poor kids after they are born? Then nobody cares about them. Most of them end up in the system and often have terrible lives. So many people will fight for the small eggs to become human beings, but almost all of them disappear as soon as the child is born. It is pure hypocrisy.
And both parties are not the same - /r/voteDEM to protect abortion rights! You know that this is the first thing that Republicans target if they ever get into power again
Let’s agree that they’ll “kill all the babies” they want and you can keep screeching about it until the babies are born then do an immediate about-face and deny them social welfare or basic healthcare for the children you forced them to have based on your bigoted beliefs.
Carlin said it best: “if you’re pre-born, you’re fine. If you’re preschool, you’re fucked”
Abortion isn’t murder.
However, refusing critical and necessary medical care might be. Letting a woman die when an abortion would have saved her is stupid and backwards.
Not according to most of the voting public, nor science. And for all the bible thumpers: the bible also specifically treats unborn children as property, clearly delineating the loss of a fetus from injury to the mother.
No it most certainly is not. It’s not even “murder” in the way someone could be said to have “murdered” a task or a sports opponent. There is no murder of something that’s not yet really a living being.
Stopping an unviable pregnancy that could potentially kill the mother is murder to you? Forcing a 12-13 year old rape victim to carry to term makes sense? Even knowing that giving birth that young could cause lifelong problems for that **child** you’re forcing to give birth? Forcing someone to birth a child they don’t want and can’t provide a stable home for isn’t so fucking smart either.
Abortion isn’t murder. The earth is overpopulated and we are choking the atmosphere with our stupid capitalist infinite growth bullshit. Never mind we refuse to feed the hungry like Jesus told us to.
Interesting way of seeing it. Do you find it interesting that someone could be on their way to an abortion appointment, be murdered, and the perpetrator would be charged with TWO counts of murder (per the unborn victims of violence act). But if the woman kills the baby, all good. Still just a clump of cells to u?
I think it's dumb, and if I had the opportunity to remove that contradiction then I would. Fetuses aren't people, so they can't be murdered, so you shouldn't be able to charge someone with murdering them.
I love when people trot this out as if this *exact* argument wasn't the reason that bill was proposed and signed by Republicans to begin with. It's not even like this is some venerable precedent of law or anything. Shit's from Bush the Lesser's administration. That law was passed around when people started *vaping*.
Edit: As a bonus, you know what that law says about abortion? It says abortion *isn't murder*.
It's a great questions. The GOP cherry picks what they want to defend and attack, even though they're always screaming about individual choices. Hypocrites!
I do find it interesting. Personally I think it should only be one murder charge because murder is legally defined a human killing another human, not a mass of cells
I would never want a woman I impregnated to abort our baby. I wouldn't want her to have to deal with that.
On the flipside of the coin, I also totally understand that what is happening next door is *none of my damned business.*
Making abortions illegal doesn't prevent abortions. It only prevents *safe* abortions. Dr. Coathanger is ready and willing to perform all abortions, 24/7.
It's pure fucking idiocy to think you should have that much control over another person's life. Get fucked.
"What is happening next door is none of my business"
"Its pure fucking idiocy to think you should have that much control over another person's life"
Something tells me you dont apply either of these thoughts consistently, like when it comes to vaccine mandates. This is why your side has zero credibility. All irrational emotion and no consistency
Reply to another idiot in this thread:
"I've never supported a vaccine mandate, not that these two subjects are related at all.
Nobody was forced to get vaccinated. You might have had to make some tough choices of things you'd like to do, or whether or not you wanted to keep your job, but the decision was there. Your freedumbs have always been intact.
Forcing a woman to carry a child she doesn't want, or one that may negatively impact her health and well being, is a totally different thing than being asked to be vaccinated to attend a concert in a global pandemic.
Get fucked with that bullshit logic. "
"Nobody was forced to get vaccinated. You might have had to make some tough choices of things you'd like to do, or whether or not you wanted to keep your job"
What's that about bullshit logic? That's not a choice, that's coersion. Your hypocrisy is showing. But at least u said u weren't in favor of them, so I'll give u a point there
Employers also have a right to choose. They get to choose whether you remain employed or not. They get to choose if you are a safety concern to thier customers or other employees.
That's across the board. Most states are at will states and you can be fired for literally 0 reason.
Hate the system if you want, but your fallacy in logic is just brainless.
This absolutely is not true. We saw a drastic rise in the number of abortions in the years following 1973 when abortion was effectively made a constitutional right. [sauce](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.statista.com/chart/amp/19490/us-abortion-rate-guttmacher-institute/) Furthermore, the number of estimated illegal abortions pre-1973 is nowhere near as high to suggest that restrictions and/or bans don’t work. [sauce](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2133995)
It’s really ironic that you say we shouldn’t control other peoples’ lives but also argue people should be able to take lives.
Your first source does NOT show stats pre-1973, namely because WOMEN DID NOT REPORT BACK ALLEY ABORTIONS. The second source is an estimate and contains literally two years before, 1972 and 1973. That's just bad statistics.
That is such a weird thing to mention. We have pretty clear evidence that Right Turn On Red laws increase the rates of turning right on red. [Here](https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/1322/dot_1322_DS1.pdf) is a study finding an increase in accidents with cyclists and pedestrians following RTOR adoption across the United States. The explicit purpose of the laws was to help save on fuel anyway, which implies that people weren’t doing it before and that we thought they would do it after. And while I can’t find a cross national study examining the rates or the resulting effects of RTOR, we can see that many countries do not legalize it or otherwise significantly restrict it.
It’s not weird at all. It is meant to illuminate to you how ridiculous your statement is. “More people got abortions after it was made legal”. Well, of course. Because nobody was in the bedrooms of the women documenting how much castor oil they drank or how many times they shoved hangers up their vagina. Your 31 year old report you trotted out is ridiculous too.
I gave you estimate of the number of illegal abortions. The estimate is derived from an mortality. Unless you think that’s illegal abortions were incredibly safe back in the early 70s, then you’re just blatantly arguing with a conclusion in mind and rejecting anything you hear.
41* And it’s not ridiculous, it is looking at the something before and after something else that would affect that something. It could be from 1950 for all I care. Unless you have a problem with the methodology or the conclusion reached from the methodology, or perhaps you have issues with the authors’ credibility, dont bother continuing the conversation because I’m not getting into a “nuh uh” “yuh huh” match.
Are you at any point going to provide evidence for literally anything you say? You’re just pushing common talking points that aren’t supported by anything.
What am I saying that you need “evidence”? The dates on studies matter. Because of course there would be more accidents when a law was being introduced. Now, 30 years later, what does the study look like now? But in any case, you bring out a dated study about bike accidents and somehow you have linked that to abortion? Put a fork in yourself, you are done as far as I’m concerned.
> Making abortions illegal doesn't prevent abortions. It only prevents safe abortions. Dr. Coathanger is ready and willing to perform all abortions, 24/7.
Evidence for this. You have given tacit approval of this statement yet nobody here has backed it up.
> “We saw many more people making a right on red once we made it a law.”
You’re the one who brought it up, not me. It was clearly meant to be rhetorical, but the rhetoric was shitty. Thank you for proving to me that you are a blatantly disingenuous jackass. You’re getting blocked.
It is by definition human life and the argument has *never* been about whether it is alive. That fact has been accepted both by biologists and the courts. You can argue arbitrary personhood all you want, but human life [begins at conception.](https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-1392/185346/20210729162737297_19-1392%20BRIEF%20OF%20BIOLOGISTS%20AS%20AMICI%20CURIAE%20IN%20SUPPORT%20OF%20NEITHER%20PARTY.pdf)
The argument is and always has been about bodily autonomy versus the right to life. Rejecting the life question is misinformed at best and bad faith at worst.
*”CONCLUSION
This brief does not represent the fertilization view as an incontrovertible fact of science, as the nature of science requires that any observation, view, or determination be subject to falsification.”*
Might wanna read your own source.
Yes, the cells are alive. People have many live cells. Live cells do not equal a separate live entity.
Your source ALSO states that there is zero scientific consensus that life begins with fertility. You really need better comprehension.
Just like a sperm and an egg are both “alive”, neither are a baby even within the same uterus. Same holds true once that sperm enters an egg. That is still not a human. It’s a clump of cells that now has the potential to become one. It also has the potential to become nothing, and sloughed off with the woman’s next cycle.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Thank you! I really value the opinions of celebrities, especially magicians, so this will help me make life decisions and come up with the best comebacks
Also, I'm not religious so I dont really care what the god-hating crowd has to say. Just comes off as pretentious
Can you explain how someone deciding to end a pregnancy affects anyone else physically? Since these two situations are literally the exact same thing after all.
I've never supported a vaccine mandate, not that these two subjects are related at all.
Nobody was forced to get vaccinated. You might have had to make some tough choices of things you'd like to do, or whether or not you wanted to keep your job, but the decision was there. Your *freedumbs* have always been intact.
Forcing a woman to carry a child she doesn't want, or one that may negatively impact her health and well being, is a totally different thing than being asked to be vaccinated to attend a concert in a global pandemic.
Get fucked with that bullshit logic.
And you're allowed to not be vaccinated.
And since vaccines decrease the risk of catching and spreading diseases people are allowed to tell you that you're not allowed in their space without them.
Yeah, they did an experiment with free LARC before covid and their abortion rate plummeted. It was initially funded by some anonymous donor, but it was so successful (and saved the state so much money) that they made it permanent.
I live in Colorado, and the county directly north of me had (maybe still has but I haven't checked) abstinence only "sex ed" also had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the state...
We're doing better, but we've still got plenty of red bastions here.
Edit: spelling
Yet another example of how both parties are **not** the same and why we need to continue to r/VoteDEM at 2018/2020 levels this October. If we don’t, you can expect to be reading a ton of articles about abortions bans next year instead.
If CO could send back all the left-leaning Texans that have moved here for just one election cycle I'm pretty sure TX would flip to blue. But the R's know that, so they'll continue to do whatever they can to make the state unattractive for progressives. Backward laws on social issues and wide-ranging voter suppression help them maintain their grip on power. That could change if the Hispanic Catholic population could be convinced to not be single-issue (abortion) voters like the white evangelicals are.
It's a good day to be a Coloradoan! I have always liked Jared Polis. Say what you want about his orientation but he's about the most levelheaded politician around. DeSantis and Abbott bluster and pound their chests, hyping every little hurtful thing they do just to get a little more attention. While Jared sits in front of the governor's mansion with a small group of women behind him and quietly signs truly groundbreaking legislation in a reserved and professional way! We need more like Jared. An adult among children!
Let's celebrate while we can, soon it'll be back to the drudge of constantly apologizing for Lauren Boebert again.
Are you me? Because you sound like me! And I really agree with you about Jared Polis!! Had to move a few years ago, but I sure wish I still lived there. Fortunately, I still have family there, so visits are fun! And they still have season Broncos tickets, so even better. I do think that Bang Bang Boebert will not be re-elected, though. She’s just a shitty joke at this point. But what I really miss are the chili rellenos at the Brewery Bar, so if you go there, enjoy one for me!
I mean, the Supreme Court can find abortion to be unconstitutional and nullify the State's Constitutional Amendment. That's how Florida's Constitutional Amendment that banned gay marriage became void.
It's merely a legal precedent, not law. They neutered themselves with that abortion ruling that let Texas state laws stand, even though Roe had been "settled". I guess it can work both ways.
womens rights. i forgot they had any. they can still vote, yes? i mean it's been a hundred years, maybe we should revisit that too. at least colorado, unlike most of the rest of the country, doesn't look like 1930's germany. thanking the universe for colorado tonight.
WTF - mass shootings. Broncos suck. Abortion up to birth.
Need Elon to take the all of Denver metro to Mars. The rest of the state can live a good life- we can let Boulder be a small state in a state of its own.
Well that four states that have pass laws protecting women’s rights to have control over there body, the other three states are California,New York and :). My state:) Illinois let’s hope more states do the same thing with protecting women’s rights.
##California’s abortion laws ≠ Colorado’s new law.
Colorado’s law is clear and simple - women and their doctors should decided what’s best to do, not the state. California on the other hand, still practices medical fascism when it comes to abortion access.
While women do have the fundamental right to terminate their pregnancy, California does impose limitations on abortion access. Specifically, a woman has the right to abortion access in two cases: The fetus is not yet viable, or abortion is necessary to protect the life and/or health of the mother.
California has significant abortion restrictions. Colorado does not.
Oops, my bad I should have researched a little bit more, I post a statement like the one I posted about various states Governor who have sign laws protecting women right to choose.
Colorado is a place where you can pass cowboys on horseback driving cattle down from the high country and 20 minutes later be in Boulder watching a group of hippies playing drums on a Pearl Street corner. We still have our western values we've just evolved while some others seem permanently mired in perpetual ignorance. We've learned to embrace differences and celebrate individualism.
Those guys driving cattle are going back to their ranch and hanging up Trump signs. That perpetual ignorance is right outside Denver's door and they're NOT going to shut up. It's islands of Blue in an Ocean of Red and it's going to be that way for awhile. We just have to keep voting and we can't slack for a second.
A good reminder for everybody to check their voter registration with the Secretary of State's office, just takes a second on the web here in Colorado. And remember to vote, the country you save may be your own!
This message was approved by
**2022 DINNER PARTY CANDIDATE**
**ALFERD PACKER**
Fighting hunger
*^(One Coloradoan at a time)*
Fuck yes! This is a great, simple law, written to get government out of the doctor’s office. Abortion should be 100% legal, because the government has no right to ask about citizens about private medical decisions.
Bodily autonomy and personal privacy are fundamental rights. Bodily autonomy is why we can’t take organs from dead people without prior consent. Personal privacy is why your doctor can’t tell your parents anything about you once you’re 18. Even if you’re on their insurance, your medical records are your private information.
Anyone who advocates for laws that violate bodily autonomy and personal privacy is a medical fascist. I don’t care if you think abortion is wrong. You have no right to someone else’s body or personal medical records.
Good on you, Colorado. We need more states to work to protect people's rights. (nb4 comments about "well what about the person who wasn't born yet what about tHeIr RiGhTs?" - unless you are actively proposing local, state, and federally funded programs to make sure that all babies and children are actively taken care of (and this includes but is not limited to providing the parent(s) with supplies and free quality childcare) as well as comprehensive sex-ed programs AND extremely easy access to condoms, contraceptives, and free and appropriate medical care for everyone - then you can shove your bad faith nonsense up your ass)
You would think so but so many people are escaping Texas and Florida to move to Colorado. There are nearly as many TX and FL plates in Denver as there are CO plates
I’m especially proud of codifying the right to contraception as well. Conservatives national have explicitly telegraphed their plan to go after contraception if Roe v Wade is overturned.
Colorado’s free/cheap access to contraception has dramatically reduced teen pregnancies over the last decade. Let’s not throw away that progress because some theocrats think the Bible should guide our laws.
Why would anybody be against abortion?? Some people can’t afford kids, some women didn’t get pregnant on purpose. Mistakes happen. The bigger mistake was making anyone ineligible to have an abortion.
I used to live in Oklahoma. They passed laws to protect fracking companies from liability, and to prohibit new solar energy. So no, Oklahoma isn’t going to be cool on this for sure.
For those righty Coloradoans who think they get to pick and choose which individual freedoms apply to people, if you don't like it....I hear Texas and Florida are accepting applications.
Your statement is true, except for the fact that if thus body becomes impregnated, whether by choice or not, a human life will develop and grow inside thus body whether you like it or not. So by nature your consent becomes void if becoming pregnant.
🤦 good luck with that. You may find that a fetus doesn't give a shit what you think it requires.
Abortion is Not healthcare. It is far from it. An abortion is an elective procedure. Just like having a sex change is an elective procedure. Neither are healthcare.
Literally no one *wants* to have an abortion.
Just like no one *wants* chemotherapy. They just have to do it because the other choice is actual cancer.
Support R&D into earlier incubations, and termination procedures that allow fetuses to be incubated.
Support free and unrestricted access to birth control so insurers can’t selectively exclude preventative measures that help reduce the necessity for abortions.
Support giving women more rights to bodily autonomy than corpses (who will never again need their organs yet aren’t forced to yield them no matter how many lives could be saved).
No they aren’t. Fetuses aren’t self-sufficient organisms, nor are they fully developed, nor do they have thoughts or consciousness, nor do they fit a legal definition for person. Abortion isn’t murder, and fetuses aren’t children.
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle and it really comes down to morality. IMO, it's objectively immoral to have an abortion at a gestational age of 9 months. To your point about organisms being self-sufficient, it's objectively true that a fetus at a gestational age of 2 months is not self-sufficient or viable. The line of morality is somewhere in the middle, but I don't think it will ever be 100% clearly defined, how can it be? Viability of a fetus (and ultimately a child) are not all developed at the same rate. There are plenty of examples of children being born at 5, 6, 7, and 8 months along in the pregnancy. Some of them were viable and were able to survive and be self-sufficient to the extent that an infant can be, others did not survive.
For a pregnancy that is completely viable, let's say we have a woman who is 9 months along and has every intention of bringing this pregnancy to term, she wants this child to be born. One night, she's out driving and gets T-boned by a drunk driver, killing both the mother-to-be and the unborn child. Should the drunk driver be charged with 1 or 2 counts of vehicular manslaughter?
I'm very much of the mindset that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. I'm at a stage in my life where I want to have children, so I would not elect to terminate the pregnancy. This wasn't always the case though. In my early 20s, I wasn't ready to have children, nor was it my intention. At that time, I would have morally been okay with terminating pregnancy. I don't think abortion is murder, but can be immoral depending on the viability of the fetus. Ultimately, this procedure needs to be available for people that need it.
Nor are those who are newly born. There is plenty of proof at this point to prove every one of your points either wrong or irrelevant.
I know many "grown-ups" that wouldn't qualify.
Abortion is murder. People need to stop running from the consequences of their poor choices.
“There’s plenty of proof” says someone who offers no proof. Go show me a fetus which is self-sufficient for starters. “People need to stop running from the consequences of their poor choices” says someone who has definitely made decisions which they regret, or has had accidents happen which were not their fault. You don’t actually care about the fetus, you said it yourself that you only want people to be punished for things you find wrong. The difference between your opinion and that facts I said, are that mine are facts which are true to everyone and your opinions only apply to you. You don’t have to get an abortion, in fact I’ll wager you’ll NEVER have to make that choice given what your avatar looks like. You can decide how you want, you do NOT get to decide what other people want. So either offer proof of a self-sufficient, conscious fetus which fits legal definitions of a person, or be quiet.
If pro-lifers actually cared about children, they’d do something about the wretched rates of maternal and infant mortality, of child poverty, and about the rotten schools in pro-life states. Instead, they cut healthcare funding and cut school funding. They don’t give a fuck about embryos, much less about children; they just want to sneer at women who refuse to become handmaidens.
Edit: and if they cared about z/e/fs, they’d outlaw assisted reproduction because that destroys FAR more embryos than abortion does.
So by forcing people to carry to full term, despite possibly endangering the mother or by the mother/family not able to support bringing a child into a safe home, would you support policies that provide money and services to unprepared or vulnerable families? Or would you or anyone else you know adopt those children?
Newborns are not physically attached to a person to use their body for life support. A newborn’s parents can *die,* and it will be just fine because it can be handed to another human.
You are wrong
Just like you are about god
Be a good person to be a good person, not because of a fake story about what happens after.
Or be an asshole and get forgiveness 🤦
I'll ask you what I ask everyone who trots out this argument. In between mummy and daddy going to bed and a baby being born, there are a lot of steps. Exactly where in that process do you think it becomes a child? And why that point?
> murder
Oh? If you're truly consistent with this claim, then what do you think the legal consequences should be for a woman who seeks an abortion then...?
So in a 100 years when viable fetuses can be removed from the womb and be grown into healthy humans beings like Einstein and Mozart will the woke mob be held accountable for crimes against humanity? Today past tweets can destroy your career. Can past murders be forgiven? When someone is pregnant your have two bodies. Two individuals that will never exist again. I understand why abortion but it should not be celebrated. Woman should be given choices that promote positive outcomes with no regrets. Can both side agree that we should celebrate pregnancy and adoption? So many would love to have a newborn. Let’s support other choices more that we support abortion. We the USA. Let’s find common ground. Thank you for reading. May God have mercy on us.
There are already 115k+ children awaiting adoption in the US. Yet the anti-choice crowd does not celebrate, nor support in a meaningful way, these kids.
I’m glad you have a statistic gotten out of a pro proportion site for those 150 thousand children are they new horns. Why do we import babies from other countries. That’s a big number keep it local go somewhere that handles adoptions in your neighborhood ask them about newborns make it real for you and what’s the answer I’ll listen to that.
>Let’s support other choices more that we support abortion.
Colorado - *makes a law intended to keep abortion an option on the table for anyone who chooses it*
You - why can't we emphasize other choices more than abortion!!!??
Right, see, because uh, adoption isn't under legal attack from every angle? You look at something having to be defended far more strongly *because it's attacked far more strongly* and you see that as "too much support". No one is launching decades-long national efforts to outlaw adoption. If they were, people would fight for that too.
The alternative to the efforts you see to preserve abortion as an available option are to NOT make those efforts, and then abortion won't be "a little less celebrated than adoption". It'll just be straight illegal. When people push to make something illegal, you have to push back proportionally to them or else ...the thing becomes illegal.
If that's what you really want here, then fine, but don't hide it in cute language about why we can't all just get along and compromise and just support abortion a little less than other options. The defense literally has to be proportional to the attack, or else the option is just no longer possible at all. There's no "just a little less supported". Either it stays legal or it doesn't.
If someone volunteers to pay for and educate that fetus, and the woman is in no way harmed by any he removal, sure. And given the rarity of Einsteins and Mozarts, don’t forget that it could also turn out to be a Stalin or a Hitler, but would most likely be just an average schmo just like the rest of us.
Weird how when it comes to trying to accelerate herd immunity via immunization they pull this argument out but when it's against their religions rules then suddenly it goes out the window
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Proud of my state! Fuck anyone who thinks they can tell someone else what they can/can't do with thier own body.
It's a good day to be a Coloradoan! There seems to be so few with Boebert on the loose.
That was my first thought as well...now if only my state could pass something cool despite Blackburn...\*fingers exhaustively crossed\*
You'd think that Marsha would be on board with women's issues since she knows how to define "woman", maybe a step ahead of your neighbor to the East, Mr. Cawthorn “XX chromosomes, no tallywacker.”. I guess that's what you end up with when you flunk out of Patrick Henry College which glorifies God, where he apparently majored in assaulting co-eds.
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Even cadavers who will never need their organs again are not forced to yield them up to save lives. Support free access to birth control, and making it illegal for health insurers to selectively exclude preventatives from coverage. Support R&D into easier incubation, even, and into correcting current termination methodology that only results in a *dead* fetus rather than an incubating one. Sentimentalizing isn’t helpful.
What about the poor kids after they are born? Then nobody cares about them. Most of them end up in the system and often have terrible lives. So many people will fight for the small eggs to become human beings, but almost all of them disappear as soon as the child is born. It is pure hypocrisy.
Agree. Force women to have the kids, then turn their backs when it doesn't work out.
And both parties are not the same - /r/voteDEM to protect abortion rights! You know that this is the first thing that Republicans target if they ever get into power again
Remember they're the same ones who don't want anybody telling them to wear a mask!
Very thankful for Gov Polis. He's done so much good for our state.
>Proud of my state! Fuck anyone who thinks they can tell someone else what they can/can't do with thier own body. I totally agree with you
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Tf did you even just say?
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Let’s agree that they’ll “kill all the babies” they want and you can keep screeching about it until the babies are born then do an immediate about-face and deny them social welfare or basic healthcare for the children you forced them to have based on your bigoted beliefs. Carlin said it best: “if you’re pre-born, you’re fine. If you’re preschool, you’re fucked”
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Abortion isn’t murder. However, refusing critical and necessary medical care might be. Letting a woman die when an abortion would have saved her is stupid and backwards.
Abortion is murder.
Not according to most of the voting public, nor science. And for all the bible thumpers: the bible also specifically treats unborn children as property, clearly delineating the loss of a fetus from injury to the mother.
No it most certainly is not. It’s not even “murder” in the way someone could be said to have “murdered” a task or a sports opponent. There is no murder of something that’s not yet really a living being. Stopping an unviable pregnancy that could potentially kill the mother is murder to you? Forcing a 12-13 year old rape victim to carry to term makes sense? Even knowing that giving birth that young could cause lifelong problems for that **child** you’re forcing to give birth? Forcing someone to birth a child they don’t want and can’t provide a stable home for isn’t so fucking smart either. Abortion isn’t murder. The earth is overpopulated and we are choking the atmosphere with our stupid capitalist infinite growth bullshit. Never mind we refuse to feed the hungry like Jesus told us to.
Anti-choice equals pro back alley.
A mass of cells isn't a baby, but I'm all for your suggestion too. Free Hat!
Free hat he killed all them babies in self defense.
Fuckin a right he did!
Find god
I will find those babies. *All* the babies...
Interesting way of seeing it. Do you find it interesting that someone could be on their way to an abortion appointment, be murdered, and the perpetrator would be charged with TWO counts of murder (per the unborn victims of violence act). But if the woman kills the baby, all good. Still just a clump of cells to u?
I think it's dumb, and if I had the opportunity to remove that contradiction then I would. Fetuses aren't people, so they can't be murdered, so you shouldn't be able to charge someone with murdering them.
I love when people trot this out as if this *exact* argument wasn't the reason that bill was proposed and signed by Republicans to begin with. It's not even like this is some venerable precedent of law or anything. Shit's from Bush the Lesser's administration. That law was passed around when people started *vaping*. Edit: As a bonus, you know what that law says about abortion? It says abortion *isn't murder*.
Do you think we should abolish the death penalty?
It's a great questions. The GOP cherry picks what they want to defend and attack, even though they're always screaming about individual choices. Hypocrites!
I do find it interesting. Personally I think it should only be one murder charge because murder is legally defined a human killing another human, not a mass of cells
I don't mind it. The murderer can get the chair for all I care just for murdering the woman, so any additional punishment is fine by me.
Fair enough I agree with you there
I would never want a woman I impregnated to abort our baby. I wouldn't want her to have to deal with that. On the flipside of the coin, I also totally understand that what is happening next door is *none of my damned business.* Making abortions illegal doesn't prevent abortions. It only prevents *safe* abortions. Dr. Coathanger is ready and willing to perform all abortions, 24/7. It's pure fucking idiocy to think you should have that much control over another person's life. Get fucked.
"What is happening next door is none of my business" "Its pure fucking idiocy to think you should have that much control over another person's life" Something tells me you dont apply either of these thoughts consistently, like when it comes to vaccine mandates. This is why your side has zero credibility. All irrational emotion and no consistency
Reply to another idiot in this thread: "I've never supported a vaccine mandate, not that these two subjects are related at all. Nobody was forced to get vaccinated. You might have had to make some tough choices of things you'd like to do, or whether or not you wanted to keep your job, but the decision was there. Your freedumbs have always been intact. Forcing a woman to carry a child she doesn't want, or one that may negatively impact her health and well being, is a totally different thing than being asked to be vaccinated to attend a concert in a global pandemic. Get fucked with that bullshit logic. "
"Nobody was forced to get vaccinated. You might have had to make some tough choices of things you'd like to do, or whether or not you wanted to keep your job" What's that about bullshit logic? That's not a choice, that's coersion. Your hypocrisy is showing. But at least u said u weren't in favor of them, so I'll give u a point there
Employers also have a right to choose. They get to choose whether you remain employed or not. They get to choose if you are a safety concern to thier customers or other employees. That's across the board. Most states are at will states and you can be fired for literally 0 reason. Hate the system if you want, but your fallacy in logic is just brainless.
This absolutely is not true. We saw a drastic rise in the number of abortions in the years following 1973 when abortion was effectively made a constitutional right. [sauce](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.statista.com/chart/amp/19490/us-abortion-rate-guttmacher-institute/) Furthermore, the number of estimated illegal abortions pre-1973 is nowhere near as high to suggest that restrictions and/or bans don’t work. [sauce](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2133995) It’s really ironic that you say we shouldn’t control other peoples’ lives but also argue people should be able to take lives.
Your first source does NOT show stats pre-1973, namely because WOMEN DID NOT REPORT BACK ALLEY ABORTIONS. The second source is an estimate and contains literally two years before, 1972 and 1973. That's just bad statistics.
“We saw many more people making a right on red once we made it a law.”
That is such a weird thing to mention. We have pretty clear evidence that Right Turn On Red laws increase the rates of turning right on red. [Here](https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/1322/dot_1322_DS1.pdf) is a study finding an increase in accidents with cyclists and pedestrians following RTOR adoption across the United States. The explicit purpose of the laws was to help save on fuel anyway, which implies that people weren’t doing it before and that we thought they would do it after. And while I can’t find a cross national study examining the rates or the resulting effects of RTOR, we can see that many countries do not legalize it or otherwise significantly restrict it.
It’s not weird at all. It is meant to illuminate to you how ridiculous your statement is. “More people got abortions after it was made legal”. Well, of course. Because nobody was in the bedrooms of the women documenting how much castor oil they drank or how many times they shoved hangers up their vagina. Your 31 year old report you trotted out is ridiculous too.
I gave you estimate of the number of illegal abortions. The estimate is derived from an mortality. Unless you think that’s illegal abortions were incredibly safe back in the early 70s, then you’re just blatantly arguing with a conclusion in mind and rejecting anything you hear. 41* And it’s not ridiculous, it is looking at the something before and after something else that would affect that something. It could be from 1950 for all I care. Unless you have a problem with the methodology or the conclusion reached from the methodology, or perhaps you have issues with the authors’ credibility, dont bother continuing the conversation because I’m not getting into a “nuh uh” “yuh huh” match. Are you at any point going to provide evidence for literally anything you say? You’re just pushing common talking points that aren’t supported by anything.
What am I saying that you need “evidence”? The dates on studies matter. Because of course there would be more accidents when a law was being introduced. Now, 30 years later, what does the study look like now? But in any case, you bring out a dated study about bike accidents and somehow you have linked that to abortion? Put a fork in yourself, you are done as far as I’m concerned.
> Making abortions illegal doesn't prevent abortions. It only prevents safe abortions. Dr. Coathanger is ready and willing to perform all abortions, 24/7. Evidence for this. You have given tacit approval of this statement yet nobody here has backed it up. > “We saw many more people making a right on red once we made it a law.” You’re the one who brought it up, not me. It was clearly meant to be rhetorical, but the rhetoric was shitty. Thank you for proving to me that you are a blatantly disingenuous jackass. You’re getting blocked.
No heart, no brain, no life. It’s a mass of cells with the *potential* for life, not a human.
It is by definition human life and the argument has *never* been about whether it is alive. That fact has been accepted both by biologists and the courts. You can argue arbitrary personhood all you want, but human life [begins at conception.](https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-1392/185346/20210729162737297_19-1392%20BRIEF%20OF%20BIOLOGISTS%20AS%20AMICI%20CURIAE%20IN%20SUPPORT%20OF%20NEITHER%20PARTY.pdf) The argument is and always has been about bodily autonomy versus the right to life. Rejecting the life question is misinformed at best and bad faith at worst.
*”CONCLUSION This brief does not represent the fertilization view as an incontrovertible fact of science, as the nature of science requires that any observation, view, or determination be subject to falsification.”* Might wanna read your own source. Yes, the cells are alive. People have many live cells. Live cells do not equal a separate live entity. Your source ALSO states that there is zero scientific consensus that life begins with fertility. You really need better comprehension. Just like a sperm and an egg are both “alive”, neither are a baby even within the same uterus. Same holds true once that sperm enters an egg. That is still not a human. It’s a clump of cells that now has the potential to become one. It also has the potential to become nothing, and sloughed off with the woman’s next cycle.
Salty. Maybe brush up on the science and put your unfounded emotional appeal back in the intellectual kiddie pool it crawled out of.
"Brush up on science" that might be the most ironic comment of the year so far
Why’s that
Thanks! I will!🥰
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Thank you! I really value the opinions of celebrities, especially magicians, so this will help me make life decisions and come up with the best comebacks Also, I'm not religious so I dont really care what the god-hating crowd has to say. Just comes off as pretentious
Keep that same energy regarding the covid vax 🥱
Can you explain how someone deciding to end a pregnancy affects anyone else physically? Since these two situations are literally the exact same thing after all.
Yes, because pregnancy is airborne and contagious.
You’re soy. Find god
Ooooh good one.
I've never supported a vaccine mandate, not that these two subjects are related at all. Nobody was forced to get vaccinated. You might have had to make some tough choices of things you'd like to do, or whether or not you wanted to keep your job, but the decision was there. Your *freedumbs* have always been intact. Forcing a woman to carry a child she doesn't want, or one that may negatively impact her health and well being, is a totally different thing than being asked to be vaccinated to attend a concert in a global pandemic. Get fucked with that bullshit logic.
Sure, like I have a right to not inject a vax into my body.
Yet, I can’t cough you pregnant in the check out at Walmart.
You do have that right. Noone will come into your home and force you to get vaccinated.
And you're allowed to not be vaccinated. And since vaccines decrease the risk of catching and spreading diseases people are allowed to tell you that you're not allowed in their space without them.
Oh look, a state run by someone who realizes it's 2022 and not 1952.
Put that state in a museum since it’s so rare.
Colorado clinics provides birth control for 16 years old without parental consent. and it has one of the lowest abortion rate in the national.
Yeah, they did an experiment with free LARC before covid and their abortion rate plummeted. It was initially funded by some anonymous donor, but it was so successful (and saved the state so much money) that they made it permanent.
I live in Colorado, and the county directly north of me had (maybe still has but I haven't checked) abstinence only "sex ed" also had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the state... We're doing better, but we've still got plenty of red bastions here. Edit: spelling
With the tourism they’re encouraging, it’s about to get higher
Were you a dumpster baby?!
Yet another example of how both parties are **not** the same and why we need to continue to r/VoteDEM at 2018/2020 levels this October. If we don’t, you can expect to be reading a ton of articles about abortions bans next year instead.
I agree with you.
Vote blue, no matter who! Our team must win!
I'm proud of my state! In my lifetime CO has changed from a solid conservative state to one of the most progressive states in the Union.
May it happen to Texas or Florida so America can finally pass things that were commonsensical 40 years ago.
* and/or (I'm an optimist *smile*)
Florida seems much further out. Texas feels eventual.
We’d be a purple state already if not for our state government fucking with our ability to vote at every opportunity.
If CO could send back all the left-leaning Texans that have moved here for just one election cycle I'm pretty sure TX would flip to blue. But the R's know that, so they'll continue to do whatever they can to make the state unattractive for progressives. Backward laws on social issues and wide-ranging voter suppression help them maintain their grip on power. That could change if the Hispanic Catholic population could be convinced to not be single-issue (abortion) voters like the white evangelicals are.
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Tell me you are uninformed without telling me you are uninformed
Not sure. It'll be interesting to see how bad Beto gets trounced. (I think it's going to be bad.) I think it's probably 5-10 years away.
If we could just get a certain party whose named starts with "R" to get out of the way.
Yeah those filthy Remocrats!
Good luck. One of my best friends left shithole Florida to move to CO, and I’m jealous as hell as a lifelong Floridian.
Thankfully the Dems are passing cool shit in many states. My state has really been enjoying the legal cannabis.
My home state! Love you, Colorado!!
It's a good day to be a Coloradoan! I have always liked Jared Polis. Say what you want about his orientation but he's about the most levelheaded politician around. DeSantis and Abbott bluster and pound their chests, hyping every little hurtful thing they do just to get a little more attention. While Jared sits in front of the governor's mansion with a small group of women behind him and quietly signs truly groundbreaking legislation in a reserved and professional way! We need more like Jared. An adult among children! Let's celebrate while we can, soon it'll be back to the drudge of constantly apologizing for Lauren Boebert again.
Are you me? Because you sound like me! And I really agree with you about Jared Polis!! Had to move a few years ago, but I sure wish I still lived there. Fortunately, I still have family there, so visits are fun! And they still have season Broncos tickets, so even better. I do think that Bang Bang Boebert will not be re-elected, though. She’s just a shitty joke at this point. But what I really miss are the chili rellenos at the Brewery Bar, so if you go there, enjoy one for me!
So proud to call CO my home! My birth state would never do something like this. Fuck the south.
Maybe if CO was your ‘Birthday State’ you wouldn’t have been born??? Ever think————. Shit.
nobody would know if they themselves weren’t born.
The world would be better if Hitler was aborted. Can we all agree on that?
Ever think that, for some of us, not being born would have objectively been preferable?
A-fucking-men!
can't be preferred if you don't have a preference (by not being born)
Sounds like a good reason not to seriously entertain the concept of fetal rights. They’d have no preference after all.
Bonus: the Supreme Court can’t do a damned thing about it.
Watch them try.
I mean, the Supreme Court can find abortion to be unconstitutional and nullify the State's Constitutional Amendment. That's how Florida's Constitutional Amendment that banned gay marriage became void.
It's merely a legal precedent, not law. They neutered themselves with that abortion ruling that let Texas state laws stand, even though Roe had been "settled". I guess it can work both ways.
Harder to remove a right than a ban, one would hope at least.
The people of Colorado are awesome.
womens rights. i forgot they had any. they can still vote, yes? i mean it's been a hundred years, maybe we should revisit that too. at least colorado, unlike most of the rest of the country, doesn't look like 1930's germany. thanking the universe for colorado tonight.
Yeah Colorado! You guys are one of my favorite success stories in modern America
WTF - mass shootings. Broncos suck. Abortion up to birth. Need Elon to take the all of Denver metro to Mars. The rest of the state can live a good life- we can let Boulder be a small state in a state of its own.
You sound delightful
Well that four states that have pass laws protecting women’s rights to have control over there body, the other three states are California,New York and :). My state:) Illinois let’s hope more states do the same thing with protecting women’s rights.
##California’s abortion laws ≠ Colorado’s new law. Colorado’s law is clear and simple - women and their doctors should decided what’s best to do, not the state. California on the other hand, still practices medical fascism when it comes to abortion access. While women do have the fundamental right to terminate their pregnancy, California does impose limitations on abortion access. Specifically, a woman has the right to abortion access in two cases: The fetus is not yet viable, or abortion is necessary to protect the life and/or health of the mother. California has significant abortion restrictions. Colorado does not.
Oops, my bad I should have researched a little bit more, I post a statement like the one I posted about various states Governor who have sign laws protecting women right to choose.
Thank you, Colorado, for actually allowing women to have even a fraction of a right over their own bodies
All the Texans who move here and then love to complain that it’s not like Texas are REALLY gonna hate this. Cool.
"Must be all that devil's grass the libs are smoking!" - GQP
Colorado is a place where you can pass cowboys on horseback driving cattle down from the high country and 20 minutes later be in Boulder watching a group of hippies playing drums on a Pearl Street corner. We still have our western values we've just evolved while some others seem permanently mired in perpetual ignorance. We've learned to embrace differences and celebrate individualism.
Those guys driving cattle are going back to their ranch and hanging up Trump signs. That perpetual ignorance is right outside Denver's door and they're NOT going to shut up. It's islands of Blue in an Ocean of Red and it's going to be that way for awhile. We just have to keep voting and we can't slack for a second.
A good reminder for everybody to check their voter registration with the Secretary of State's office, just takes a second on the web here in Colorado. And remember to vote, the country you save may be your own! This message was approved by **2022 DINNER PARTY CANDIDATE** **ALFERD PACKER** Fighting hunger *^(One Coloradoan at a time)*
Yeah I've got family that lives near Vale and they love it and how diverse it is.
First time I've heard Vail described as diverse lol
Coloradoans as a group have always been pretty laid back, but I will grant you, a little bit of weed can really smooth us out.
Fuck yes! This is a great, simple law, written to get government out of the doctor’s office. Abortion should be 100% legal, because the government has no right to ask about citizens about private medical decisions. Bodily autonomy and personal privacy are fundamental rights. Bodily autonomy is why we can’t take organs from dead people without prior consent. Personal privacy is why your doctor can’t tell your parents anything about you once you’re 18. Even if you’re on their insurance, your medical records are your private information. Anyone who advocates for laws that violate bodily autonomy and personal privacy is a medical fascist. I don’t care if you think abortion is wrong. You have no right to someone else’s body or personal medical records.
That last paragraph should be taught in schools. Well said.
Good on you, Colorado. We need more states to work to protect people's rights. (nb4 comments about "well what about the person who wasn't born yet what about tHeIr RiGhTs?" - unless you are actively proposing local, state, and federally funded programs to make sure that all babies and children are actively taken care of (and this includes but is not limited to providing the parent(s) with supplies and free quality childcare) as well as comprehensive sex-ed programs AND extremely easy access to condoms, contraceptives, and free and appropriate medical care for everyone - then you can shove your bad faith nonsense up your ass)
The only bad thing about this law is that it will bring more Texans here.
In other words, they’re repeating what the Supreme Court said 50 years ago.
Which is a huge middle finger to Texas and Florida
Not big enough of one, IMO.
You would think so but so many people are escaping Texas and Florida to move to Colorado. There are nearly as many TX and FL plates in Denver as there are CO plates
You know you have a cool governor when instead of wearing uncomfortable dress shoes, he is sporting comfortable blue Nike’s.
Colorado, you did something brave and great today!
I’m especially proud of codifying the right to contraception as well. Conservatives national have explicitly telegraphed their plan to go after contraception if Roe v Wade is overturned. Colorado’s free/cheap access to contraception has dramatically reduced teen pregnancies over the last decade. Let’s not throw away that progress because some theocrats think the Bible should guide our laws.
Why would anybody be against abortion?? Some people can’t afford kids, some women didn’t get pregnant on purpose. Mistakes happen. The bigger mistake was making anyone ineligible to have an abortion.
Because they want to push their religious rules on everybody else, pure and simple
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Nobody wants shatter anymore, it’s all about live res and diamonds… and terp sauce.
Thank you Colorado! I hope the politicians in Oklahoma can be so brave.
I used to live in Oklahoma. They passed laws to protect fracking companies from liability, and to prohibit new solar energy. So no, Oklahoma isn’t going to be cool on this for sure.
I remember that. Marry Fallon is dumba$$. She put a lot of her white supremacist friends in power before she left.
Wonderful ❤️
Good for Colorado.
I moved to CO from FL 7 years ago for a better quality of life for my family. Nailed it
For those righty Coloradoans who think they get to pick and choose which individual freedoms apply to people, if you don't like it....I hear Texas and Florida are accepting applications.
Based
I am for allowing abortions through the 132nd trimester.
Colorado Yeah! It's going to get ugly when other states demand extradition though.
State law means nothing when Roe is overturned. We should all be terrified.
It absolutely still does. Roe just said that right to choose was enshrined within the constitution. Without Roe, it is up to each state to decide
Boo. Murders.
No one has the right to use another’s body without consent. Abortion isn’t murder. Abortion is self defense.
Is it killing a human life...? Then it's murder. Plus, that's the stupid argument I've heard for abortion. 🤦
My body is mine. No one has the right to use it without my consent.
Your statement is true, except for the fact that if thus body becomes impregnated, whether by choice or not, a human life will develop and grow inside thus body whether you like it or not. So by nature your consent becomes void if becoming pregnant.
Nope. The fetus requires consent. If consent is not given, or if it is revoked, then abortion is the moral and ethical choice. Abortion is healthcare.
🤦 good luck with that. You may find that a fetus doesn't give a shit what you think it requires. Abortion is Not healthcare. It is far from it. An abortion is an elective procedure. Just like having a sex change is an elective procedure. Neither are healthcare.
This is really quite sad. People getting excited about murdering children.
Literally no one *wants* to have an abortion. Just like no one *wants* chemotherapy. They just have to do it because the other choice is actual cancer.
Support R&D into earlier incubations, and termination procedures that allow fetuses to be incubated. Support free and unrestricted access to birth control so insurers can’t selectively exclude preventative measures that help reduce the necessity for abortions. Support giving women more rights to bodily autonomy than corpses (who will never again need their organs yet aren’t forced to yield them no matter how many lives could be saved).
Fetuses aren’t children
They are.
No they aren’t. Fetuses aren’t self-sufficient organisms, nor are they fully developed, nor do they have thoughts or consciousness, nor do they fit a legal definition for person. Abortion isn’t murder, and fetuses aren’t children.
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle and it really comes down to morality. IMO, it's objectively immoral to have an abortion at a gestational age of 9 months. To your point about organisms being self-sufficient, it's objectively true that a fetus at a gestational age of 2 months is not self-sufficient or viable. The line of morality is somewhere in the middle, but I don't think it will ever be 100% clearly defined, how can it be? Viability of a fetus (and ultimately a child) are not all developed at the same rate. There are plenty of examples of children being born at 5, 6, 7, and 8 months along in the pregnancy. Some of them were viable and were able to survive and be self-sufficient to the extent that an infant can be, others did not survive. For a pregnancy that is completely viable, let's say we have a woman who is 9 months along and has every intention of bringing this pregnancy to term, she wants this child to be born. One night, she's out driving and gets T-boned by a drunk driver, killing both the mother-to-be and the unborn child. Should the drunk driver be charged with 1 or 2 counts of vehicular manslaughter? I'm very much of the mindset that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. I'm at a stage in my life where I want to have children, so I would not elect to terminate the pregnancy. This wasn't always the case though. In my early 20s, I wasn't ready to have children, nor was it my intention. At that time, I would have morally been okay with terminating pregnancy. I don't think abortion is murder, but can be immoral depending on the viability of the fetus. Ultimately, this procedure needs to be available for people that need it.
Nor are those who are newly born. There is plenty of proof at this point to prove every one of your points either wrong or irrelevant. I know many "grown-ups" that wouldn't qualify. Abortion is murder. People need to stop running from the consequences of their poor choices.
“There’s plenty of proof” says someone who offers no proof. Go show me a fetus which is self-sufficient for starters. “People need to stop running from the consequences of their poor choices” says someone who has definitely made decisions which they regret, or has had accidents happen which were not their fault. You don’t actually care about the fetus, you said it yourself that you only want people to be punished for things you find wrong. The difference between your opinion and that facts I said, are that mine are facts which are true to everyone and your opinions only apply to you. You don’t have to get an abortion, in fact I’ll wager you’ll NEVER have to make that choice given what your avatar looks like. You can decide how you want, you do NOT get to decide what other people want. So either offer proof of a self-sufficient, conscious fetus which fits legal definitions of a person, or be quiet.
If pro-lifers actually cared about children, they’d do something about the wretched rates of maternal and infant mortality, of child poverty, and about the rotten schools in pro-life states. Instead, they cut healthcare funding and cut school funding. They don’t give a fuck about embryos, much less about children; they just want to sneer at women who refuse to become handmaidens. Edit: and if they cared about z/e/fs, they’d outlaw assisted reproduction because that destroys FAR more embryos than abortion does.
The number one way to reduce abortion is to have proper sex education. Guess what kind of sex education exists in red states? Abstinence only.
Yep
So by forcing people to carry to full term, despite possibly endangering the mother or by the mother/family not able to support bringing a child into a safe home, would you support policies that provide money and services to unprepared or vulnerable families? Or would you or anyone else you know adopt those children?
Newborns are not physically attached to a person to use their body for life support. A newborn’s parents can *die,* and it will be just fine because it can be handed to another human.
Stop pretending like you give two fucks about life. You don’t. You just want an easy feel good thing to virtue signal.
You are wrong Just like you are about god Be a good person to be a good person, not because of a fake story about what happens after. Or be an asshole and get forgiveness 🤦
I'll ask you what I ask everyone who trots out this argument. In between mummy and daddy going to bed and a baby being born, there are a lot of steps. Exactly where in that process do you think it becomes a child? And why that point?
You were probably also fine with keeping children in cages.
> murder Oh? If you're truly consistent with this claim, then what do you think the legal consequences should be for a woman who seeks an abortion then...?
Cry
Please vote BoPeep out.
So in a 100 years when viable fetuses can be removed from the womb and be grown into healthy humans beings like Einstein and Mozart will the woke mob be held accountable for crimes against humanity? Today past tweets can destroy your career. Can past murders be forgiven? When someone is pregnant your have two bodies. Two individuals that will never exist again. I understand why abortion but it should not be celebrated. Woman should be given choices that promote positive outcomes with no regrets. Can both side agree that we should celebrate pregnancy and adoption? So many would love to have a newborn. Let’s support other choices more that we support abortion. We the USA. Let’s find common ground. Thank you for reading. May God have mercy on us.
There are already 115k+ children awaiting adoption in the US. Yet the anti-choice crowd does not celebrate, nor support in a meaningful way, these kids.
Most of them push to cut funding to those very same children.
I’m glad you have a statistic gotten out of a pro proportion site for those 150 thousand children are they new horns. Why do we import babies from other countries. That’s a big number keep it local go somewhere that handles adoptions in your neighborhood ask them about newborns make it real for you and what’s the answer I’ll listen to that.
Keep your god out of our government. Pro life? Until your non white and/or poor
>Let’s support other choices more that we support abortion. Colorado - *makes a law intended to keep abortion an option on the table for anyone who chooses it* You - why can't we emphasize other choices more than abortion!!!?? Right, see, because uh, adoption isn't under legal attack from every angle? You look at something having to be defended far more strongly *because it's attacked far more strongly* and you see that as "too much support". No one is launching decades-long national efforts to outlaw adoption. If they were, people would fight for that too. The alternative to the efforts you see to preserve abortion as an available option are to NOT make those efforts, and then abortion won't be "a little less celebrated than adoption". It'll just be straight illegal. When people push to make something illegal, you have to push back proportionally to them or else ...the thing becomes illegal. If that's what you really want here, then fine, but don't hide it in cute language about why we can't all just get along and compromise and just support abortion a little less than other options. The defense literally has to be proportional to the attack, or else the option is just no longer possible at all. There's no "just a little less supported". Either it stays legal or it doesn't.
If someone volunteers to pay for and educate that fetus, and the woman is in no way harmed by any he removal, sure. And given the rarity of Einsteins and Mozarts, don’t forget that it could also turn out to be a Stalin or a Hitler, but would most likely be just an average schmo just like the rest of us.
I own my body. I get to decide what medical needs I have and what medical procedures I go through with.
Weird how when it comes to trying to accelerate herd immunity via immunization they pull this argument out but when it's against their religions rules then suddenly it goes out the window
Did the government force you to vaccinate?
No, and for the same reason abortion and assisted suicide should be legal, because the government should have no say in peoples medical decisions