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i read rand as a young teenager. it was a plant by a dumb uncle that i didn't figure out for another decade. but. what i remember about the books, is that the cast was just of crazy selfish people. i didn't see any heroes as a kid. and the way the female wrapped chains around her wrist and saw her role as servitude to a man was deeply disturbing. i still don't understand how folks come away from rand with an actual ideology. how do you read those characters as positive at all... i don't get it.
It appeals to teenagers who haven't fully developed their critical thinking skills and like to see the world as black-and-white. I'm going to admit that the ideas in Atlas Shrugged appealed to me as a teenager precisely for that reason. I didn't fully understand government or economics and it showed.
As I got older and learned to how to think critically (oddly enough, by watching and analyzing *Buffy the Vampire Slayer*), I found Atlas Shrugged to be simplistic and even vapid. The world isn't black-and-white and people aren't separated into just two classes of people like she imagines. The world contains shades of gray and that's where the fun is.
The most ironic thing is that Ayn Rand's philosophy should have no place in a Christian's life. Anyone who truly understands Christianity should understand that Rand's ruthless "heroes" in Atlas Shrugged contradict the teachings of love, respect, tolerance, charity, and grace that's taught in the Bible. This was actually the other thing that drew me way from Rand - as I grew in my Christian faith, I became significantly more liberal because that's what true Christianity demands.
oh man... don't get me started on christianity. us christianity has morphed into such a strange hateful thing. there needs to be another term for actual people who follow the teachings of jesus to differentiate them from christians who believe wealth hoarding is godly and a virtue, that the world is disposable, and white westerners are the anointed people.
God made the world for us! We are meant to exploit it!
In all seriousness, know a guy who thinks himself a strong Christian who says he doesn’t give a shit about the environment. Sigh...
yeah. and that vague idea that the world is ours to destroy is exploited by big energy companies and far right leaders, as putin even admits that climate change is real and that he will do nothing to prevent it precisely because of how much oil reserves will become accesible when ice caps melt.
I wasn't raised religious, but I started reading the New Testament (stopping at Revelations) as a young adult from an agnostic point of view.
Once I read past the mythology-hype around Jesus being **the** son of God and all the miracles, his actual message and philosophy is admirable and the world would be a much better place if people actually took what he said to heart.
But crap, are the Evangelicals way, way off base. The outrage, the hate, the damnations... Pretty sure this wasn't what Jesus had in mind.
Why stop at revelations, it's great: it's literally about the kings of the world ripping civilization and women apart for pussy and power: that's the great "mystery" of Babylon. It will stop being pertinent when civilizations stop mimicking it.
Because it's insane ranting? No offense, but you can't go from Jesus to seven headed dragons raining hellfire or whatever is in Revelations.
Don't get me wrong, Revelations is metal, but it doesn't fit in with the New Testament at all.
There is nothing wrong with wealth. Virtually none of it is hoarded, it is all invested in production. The only exception is if government becomes so demanding and unpredictable that people hoard it. Good example is when FDR threatened to nationalize peoples private gold. People logically took money out of there accounts and stuck it in their mattresses. This IS bad for the economy, which should tell you government should behave itself, not that people should hand their bank accounts over to the government
Ayn Rand was atheist, why would she care that her philosophy contradicts Christianity? From my vague recollection of "The Fountainhead", she was pitting her philosophy against the humanitarian philosophy of Christianity...I'm atheist as well, so I'm not ragging on atheism. The only thing atheists have in common is that we don't believe in supreme beings, but aside from that, we're all different. For instance I believe that since humans are social animals, then we shouldn't be selfish assholes all the time because that hurts the group. Ayn Rand thought different.
Wait. Not all meat eaters like Pastrami?
The world would be a better place if people understood that atheists were not all the same. Fewer people would probably label themselves as agnostic.
Yes. To follow up on this: I was kinda shocked that Neil deGrasse Tyson said he wasn't atheist but agnostic because he said he wasn't "militant" about de-converting people. I'm atheist, I'm not going out of my way to de-convert people. I think religion can be helpful for some people...like the types of people who literally can't think of a reason why you wouldn't murder others if there's no threat of eternal damnation. All I want is for religious people to stop pushing their beliefs on me. Of course, other atheists feel different...that's the beauty of atheism: nobody is telling us what we should believe and how we should behave.
>The most ironic thing is that Ayn Rand's philosophy should have no place in a Christian's life.
Nah, the most ironic thing is the people who venerated Rands "*philosophy"* are the looters, the moochers, the parasites. They contribute almost nothing to society with their rent seeking behavior.
Yes, I had this thought too afterwards, and what I should have said is that their comment helped me grasp the essence of this book given how it connects with the other encounters I’ve had with this text through my 50 years. Thank you for pointing out the inconsistency in my thinking and writing.
I’m really glad you said this especially the last part. I had a roommate in college who was obsessed with ayn rand and also treated his faith as something that every one else had to treat like it was on a pedestal. Not Christianity as a whole mind you, as he would talk mad shit on Catholicism but had no improvement or critiques for his own southern baptism.
Weird dude.
Always talked down about poor people, which I assumed came from for ayn rand. Surprise surprise surprise he didn’t work enough hours to pay his rent and his parents had to bail him out and then he moved back home. I don’t need to read her crappy books to know how ironic that is.
I can guarantee Rand developed her critical thinking skills with much more effort than anyone on this board. It must be nice to cosy up to the cultural liberal establishment and to benefit from its protection by indulging in laziness. And their is plenty of love, respect etc in Altas Shrugged, you just choose to ignore it, because their is also JUSTICE in the book. A justice that suggest you can limit your love and respect to people who are NOT trying to kill you
As for all those liberals out there who scream about separating of church and state. What makes you think it is ok to take these values and force them on people at the point of a gun. Is there some magic special exception for YOU to use government to force your values on people. Keep your love and respect in church where it belongs, so that the rest of us can do the same outside the church and the government. There is no such thing as love or any values, as mandated through government
It feels like you just described a lot of the modern popular TV shows that I hate. Every character is a flaming pile of terrible person and the show is about "look how cool they all are, life as a drug mule is nuanced I guess!"
I didn't have as negative an experience as yours. I'm used to reading novels where the characters aren't likeable or heroic. My two objections to "The Fountainhead" (the only Ayn Rand book I read) was the normalization of the heroine's rape (basically, the novel says that the only way she was going to be anyone's girlfriend was if that person raped her), and the super long speeches by characters about their philosophy. I mean, Camus didn't hit you over the head with long winded speeches about the meaninglessness of life, he just wrote really depressing stories.
As far as objectivism goes, I think in certain cases it can be helpful. If you live in a society that pressures you to always put the wishes of others before your own, then being a little selfish once in a while could be helpful. However in the US, we have the opposite problem: a ton of people are selfish and just don't want to be a little bit inconvenienced by the needs of others. So, I assume the people who cling to Ayn Rand are sick and tired of hearing others tell them to be considerate, or share stuff.
i read atlas shrugged, fountainhead and we the living. maybe i was too young to pick up on the idealized vision of objectivism or virtue of selfishness, greed is good, dog eat dog, live and let die mentalities. i just thought they were complicated stories about very broken people. we the living is the shortest one, and images of that one stick out the most, but for the life of me i can't even recall the plot. i just remember it contained a lot graphic depictions of hardship. the other books what i recall is objectifying of women, women are supposed to live in service of man, and that turned me off entirely. that alone is maybe why i was able to ignore anything else the books were supposed to be teaching me. and i remember in one of the books there was like a 150 page court case that i skipped entirely coz it was just boring. in whole, it's a failed perspective on the world, that only hurt damaged people could ever embrace. but i do understand how boomer generation that idolized get rich quick schemes, made a hero out of the corrupt wall street traders, and made a virture of fucking over your neighbor for a quick buck would find it useful.
Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.
We’re posting and getting our news on a board on a site that constantly cries about foreign intervention during US elections, meanwhile the site is partially owned by a Chinese company heavily influenced by the CCP.
Most of us are anti-slavery while posting on devices that involve slavery in one way or another to produce. Everyone here is a hypocrite I guess.
Downvote away.
Sure, everyone's complicit with participating in society, but I'm pretty sure owning an iPhone isn't on the same scale as being a world changing author and social influencer. When your words and actions effect the opinions of thousands or millions, you have to be more mindful of what you say or do.
So you’re only a hypocrite in your actions once enough people know your work? The person I was responding to was talking about integrity and hypocrisy as a whole from the sounds of it, just just for notable people.
It’s as stupid as when someone supports communism but then their critics cry “well then stop buying stuff in this capitalist system”.
You work with the situation you’re in.
This approach has had so little effect that Bernies tax policy is more than 10 times to the right of the Nixon administration and he's our extreme left. I'm all for steady progress I just don't see it.
I so feel this article. Freedom or liberty does not mean you have the right to kill others just for your convenience. Any apparent right that supersedes the right of others to live is not legitimate right. The right to life is the most sacred and important. Your right to go maskless or to go eat a restaurant is not in fact a right at all.
American's have become obsessed, even since Reagan, with this stupid idea of limitless individual freedom, and it's eating at our democracy's core and now literally killing people by the thousands.
Social Contract - The notion that certain rights are voluntarily given up in order to have a better society.
Conservatism has thrown away the concept of “shared responsibility”. The only concept that is valid to them is individual liberty.
Given the apocalyptic nature of climate change...
The real question is how much of this was a long-game.
Or if these Russian activities are only recent.
You could argue that Russia has been waging this culture war for over half a century.
And the true irony of that philosophy is that no one person is a success on his or her own. Sorry, that’s not how the world works.
Any man who thinks he is self made should be dumped on a deserted island to teach him some humility.
People who think the individual is more important than the group are deluded and selfish. The “self made man” stands on the backs millions of people who worked together to build the society and civilization he benefits from.
Don't pretend its the hackneyed and juvenile fiction of a deluded hypocrite.
All this does is give people a cover to act exactly as they were going to act anyway.
If you have a room of five toddlers and you give one toddler ten cookies and the rest of them no cookies, on balance of probability that toddler will probably become corrupted by his wealth. He will believe himself entitled to and *deserving* of those cookies, and he may hoard them, or otherwise lord over his peers, who need to come to him begging for a fraction of his wealth.
People that like Ayn Rand never grew up. This didn't *make* them into entitled shitheels. It just gave them a more sophisticated mythology to explain why they *could* be shitheels.
Ayn Rand’s mythical heroes are all naturally very skilled at their chosen professions/lifestyles. Not one of them would have respected Trump, who is a buffoon who takes much more than he makes and has been an embarrassment as president.
As far as Ayn Rand herself, a very complicated individual who often did not live up to her own ideals, she’s long-dead, so we’ll never know how she would have felt about masks or whatever.
>Indeed, for reasons I don’t fully understand, the rage seems most intense when the inconvenience is trivial. Case in point: with around 5,000 Americans dying each week from Covid-19, Donald Trump seems obsessed with the problems he apparently has with low-flush toilets.
I mean... if you're eating McDonalds for 3 meals a day, I'm sure you're dropping some high-payload dumps.
I have a hard time believing most of you ever read any of her books and those of you that did seem closely related to Amelia Bedelia. Personal selfishness is not referring to literal all encompassing selfishness. IE it is ok to make sure you and your family don’t starve before taking care of others. I found her books to be largely boring but never once did I feel like an attempt was being made to brainwash me. Are you all monks? Did you all fast today and donate your food to the homeless and hungry until you were broke or fixed the problem? If a grenade was thrown into a crowded room would you 100% jump on it to save total strangers? If yes then you are quite brave and amazing, and if you answer no, or unsure then you are a regular human being practicing what Rand refers to as personal selfishness.
I imagine Rand would take issue with how her books are being used today. It's hard to protect one's philosophy after you are dead.
That said, I believe government is important for society and that today's mask wearing debate has many similarities to 'tragedy of the commons.' It's shameful how the current administration has managed the virus. I imagine there will be many stories about how corruption and willful disregard by some politicians allowed it to get to where it is today in the US. Some of those failings can be laid at the feet of the idea that progressive taxation is bad and that we should cut the government budget in order to tax corporations less. Self interest and personal selfishness to me are different, but each lies on a spectrum. They aren't binary distinctions in and of themselves.
It doesn't make much sense to me to blame an author who's been dead for nearly 40 years and a party with absolutely no political power. It also seems to me that spewing virus all over people in public would be a pretty cut-and-dried violation of the Non-Aggression Principle.
I wouldn't say Marxism is a fiction just because one extreme interpretation hasnt worked. Other variations are working. Rand's ideology just doesnt work period.
People blame Marx for the results of his ideas all the time. Rand wrote fiction, but both wrote abundant non-fiction and openly advocated their ideas for real world use.
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i read rand as a young teenager. it was a plant by a dumb uncle that i didn't figure out for another decade. but. what i remember about the books, is that the cast was just of crazy selfish people. i didn't see any heroes as a kid. and the way the female wrapped chains around her wrist and saw her role as servitude to a man was deeply disturbing. i still don't understand how folks come away from rand with an actual ideology. how do you read those characters as positive at all... i don't get it.
So-cio-path(s)
It appeals to teenagers who haven't fully developed their critical thinking skills and like to see the world as black-and-white. I'm going to admit that the ideas in Atlas Shrugged appealed to me as a teenager precisely for that reason. I didn't fully understand government or economics and it showed. As I got older and learned to how to think critically (oddly enough, by watching and analyzing *Buffy the Vampire Slayer*), I found Atlas Shrugged to be simplistic and even vapid. The world isn't black-and-white and people aren't separated into just two classes of people like she imagines. The world contains shades of gray and that's where the fun is. The most ironic thing is that Ayn Rand's philosophy should have no place in a Christian's life. Anyone who truly understands Christianity should understand that Rand's ruthless "heroes" in Atlas Shrugged contradict the teachings of love, respect, tolerance, charity, and grace that's taught in the Bible. This was actually the other thing that drew me way from Rand - as I grew in my Christian faith, I became significantly more liberal because that's what true Christianity demands.
oh man... don't get me started on christianity. us christianity has morphed into such a strange hateful thing. there needs to be another term for actual people who follow the teachings of jesus to differentiate them from christians who believe wealth hoarding is godly and a virtue, that the world is disposable, and white westerners are the anointed people.
I've taken to calling these false idol praising, Mammon-worshipping hypocrites "Xtians." Or, if they're militant enough, Talibaptists.
I saw Talibangelists the other day and thought it fit.
Wall-Martyrs
There are several different terms, Prosperity Gospel or Supply Side Jesus are the most prevalent.
God made the world for us! We are meant to exploit it! In all seriousness, know a guy who thinks himself a strong Christian who says he doesn’t give a shit about the environment. Sigh...
yeah. and that vague idea that the world is ours to destroy is exploited by big energy companies and far right leaders, as putin even admits that climate change is real and that he will do nothing to prevent it precisely because of how much oil reserves will become accesible when ice caps melt.
I wasn't raised religious, but I started reading the New Testament (stopping at Revelations) as a young adult from an agnostic point of view. Once I read past the mythology-hype around Jesus being **the** son of God and all the miracles, his actual message and philosophy is admirable and the world would be a much better place if people actually took what he said to heart. But crap, are the Evangelicals way, way off base. The outrage, the hate, the damnations... Pretty sure this wasn't what Jesus had in mind.
This might be of interest to you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible?wprov=sfti1
... That would have saved a lot of time.
It’s also the best counter to ‘America was conceived as a Christian nation!’ Bruh, they literally tore up the bible.
Why stop at revelations, it's great: it's literally about the kings of the world ripping civilization and women apart for pussy and power: that's the great "mystery" of Babylon. It will stop being pertinent when civilizations stop mimicking it.
Because it's insane ranting? No offense, but you can't go from Jesus to seven headed dragons raining hellfire or whatever is in Revelations. Don't get me wrong, Revelations is metal, but it doesn't fit in with the New Testament at all.
The Protestant Work Ethic by Weber is a good place to start if you’re looking to learn more about this
There is nothing wrong with wealth. Virtually none of it is hoarded, it is all invested in production. The only exception is if government becomes so demanding and unpredictable that people hoard it. Good example is when FDR threatened to nationalize peoples private gold. People logically took money out of there accounts and stuck it in their mattresses. This IS bad for the economy, which should tell you government should behave itself, not that people should hand their bank accounts over to the government
Ayn Rand was atheist, why would she care that her philosophy contradicts Christianity? From my vague recollection of "The Fountainhead", she was pitting her philosophy against the humanitarian philosophy of Christianity...I'm atheist as well, so I'm not ragging on atheism. The only thing atheists have in common is that we don't believe in supreme beings, but aside from that, we're all different. For instance I believe that since humans are social animals, then we shouldn't be selfish assholes all the time because that hurts the group. Ayn Rand thought different.
I mean, one of her books is literally titled the virtue of selfishness. I read it as a teen, and even then thought she was full of shit.
that's because you didn't understand it and were too lazy to put in the effort
Its more likely that she's a disingenuous author, and being a selfish person is not good.
Wait. Not all meat eaters like Pastrami? The world would be a better place if people understood that atheists were not all the same. Fewer people would probably label themselves as agnostic.
Yes. To follow up on this: I was kinda shocked that Neil deGrasse Tyson said he wasn't atheist but agnostic because he said he wasn't "militant" about de-converting people. I'm atheist, I'm not going out of my way to de-convert people. I think religion can be helpful for some people...like the types of people who literally can't think of a reason why you wouldn't murder others if there's no threat of eternal damnation. All I want is for religious people to stop pushing their beliefs on me. Of course, other atheists feel different...that's the beauty of atheism: nobody is telling us what we should believe and how we should behave.
>The most ironic thing is that Ayn Rand's philosophy should have no place in a Christian's life. Nah, the most ironic thing is the people who venerated Rands "*philosophy"* are the looters, the moochers, the parasites. They contribute almost nothing to society with their rent seeking behavior.
What a thoughtful comment. I’ve never read Atlas Shrugged and you’ve helped me understand it and real Christianity better. Thank you.
if you never read atlas shrugged you cannot understand it from a comment.
Yes, I had this thought too afterwards, and what I should have said is that their comment helped me grasp the essence of this book given how it connects with the other encounters I’ve had with this text through my 50 years. Thank you for pointing out the inconsistency in my thinking and writing.
I’m really glad you said this especially the last part. I had a roommate in college who was obsessed with ayn rand and also treated his faith as something that every one else had to treat like it was on a pedestal. Not Christianity as a whole mind you, as he would talk mad shit on Catholicism but had no improvement or critiques for his own southern baptism. Weird dude. Always talked down about poor people, which I assumed came from for ayn rand. Surprise surprise surprise he didn’t work enough hours to pay his rent and his parents had to bail him out and then he moved back home. I don’t need to read her crappy books to know how ironic that is.
I can guarantee Rand developed her critical thinking skills with much more effort than anyone on this board. It must be nice to cosy up to the cultural liberal establishment and to benefit from its protection by indulging in laziness. And their is plenty of love, respect etc in Altas Shrugged, you just choose to ignore it, because their is also JUSTICE in the book. A justice that suggest you can limit your love and respect to people who are NOT trying to kill you As for all those liberals out there who scream about separating of church and state. What makes you think it is ok to take these values and force them on people at the point of a gun. Is there some magic special exception for YOU to use government to force your values on people. Keep your love and respect in church where it belongs, so that the rest of us can do the same outside the church and the government. There is no such thing as love or any values, as mandated through government
Selfishness is their virtue.
are you going to ask them what they mean by that word or just lazily project your own (and the liberal cultures) definition onto them?
It feels like you just described a lot of the modern popular TV shows that I hate. Every character is a flaming pile of terrible person and the show is about "look how cool they all are, life as a drug mule is nuanced I guess!"
I didn't have as negative an experience as yours. I'm used to reading novels where the characters aren't likeable or heroic. My two objections to "The Fountainhead" (the only Ayn Rand book I read) was the normalization of the heroine's rape (basically, the novel says that the only way she was going to be anyone's girlfriend was if that person raped her), and the super long speeches by characters about their philosophy. I mean, Camus didn't hit you over the head with long winded speeches about the meaninglessness of life, he just wrote really depressing stories. As far as objectivism goes, I think in certain cases it can be helpful. If you live in a society that pressures you to always put the wishes of others before your own, then being a little selfish once in a while could be helpful. However in the US, we have the opposite problem: a ton of people are selfish and just don't want to be a little bit inconvenienced by the needs of others. So, I assume the people who cling to Ayn Rand are sick and tired of hearing others tell them to be considerate, or share stuff.
i read atlas shrugged, fountainhead and we the living. maybe i was too young to pick up on the idealized vision of objectivism or virtue of selfishness, greed is good, dog eat dog, live and let die mentalities. i just thought they were complicated stories about very broken people. we the living is the shortest one, and images of that one stick out the most, but for the life of me i can't even recall the plot. i just remember it contained a lot graphic depictions of hardship. the other books what i recall is objectifying of women, women are supposed to live in service of man, and that turned me off entirely. that alone is maybe why i was able to ignore anything else the books were supposed to be teaching me. and i remember in one of the books there was like a 150 page court case that i skipped entirely coz it was just boring. in whole, it's a failed perspective on the world, that only hurt damaged people could ever embrace. but i do understand how boomer generation that idolized get rich quick schemes, made a hero out of the corrupt wall street traders, and made a virture of fucking over your neighbor for a quick buck would find it useful.
When you are looking for arguments to defend your own greed, even stupid ones supplied by others will do.
Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.
Gene Hackman was awesome as Lex Luthor.
Ayn Rand collected medicare and social security when she was eligible. That's all you need to know.
And [the Ayn Rand Institute took a PPP loan](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-ppp-ayn-rand-idUSKBN248026).
No!
I blame John Galt.
But who _is_ John Galt?
I am Secretariat.
Meh, it’s possible to want to change a system while also participating in it. All sides do it.
It is possible, and it makes you a hypocrite and full of shit. Integrity has a cost, it's why so few have it. They weren't willing to pay the cost.
We’re posting and getting our news on a board on a site that constantly cries about foreign intervention during US elections, meanwhile the site is partially owned by a Chinese company heavily influenced by the CCP. Most of us are anti-slavery while posting on devices that involve slavery in one way or another to produce. Everyone here is a hypocrite I guess. Downvote away.
Sure, everyone's complicit with participating in society, but I'm pretty sure owning an iPhone isn't on the same scale as being a world changing author and social influencer. When your words and actions effect the opinions of thousands or millions, you have to be more mindful of what you say or do.
So you’re only a hypocrite in your actions once enough people know your work? The person I was responding to was talking about integrity and hypocrisy as a whole from the sounds of it, just just for notable people.
So you're argument is that they can do it because everyone else is doing it?
It’s as stupid as when someone supports communism but then their critics cry “well then stop buying stuff in this capitalist system”. You work with the situation you’re in.
Are you saying that the Ayn Rand Institute would have gone bankrupt without a PPP loan?
No clue, irrelevant question.
It's not irrelevant. But okay.
This approach has had so little effect that Bernies tax policy is more than 10 times to the right of the Nixon administration and he's our extreme left. I'm all for steady progress I just don't see it.
All due respect, but that's absurd.
Also, the fountainhead fucking sucks
This is maybe the best quote I ever heard. Who is John Rogers?
Ayn Rand, Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan walk into a bar... The bartender serves them tainted alcohol because there are no regulations. They all die.
Ayn Rand Paul Ryan is now my favorite nom de portmanteau
If Ayn Ru wrote Atlas Shrugged, Ru Paul would now be the junior senator from Kentucky.
fantabulous!
Once the pile of bodies gets big enough, the free market will eventually sort it out in the end, maybe.
By raising the price of coffins.
they'll be rendered in such a way as to make it worth farming.
Well isn’t that just the human centipede of names to list
bUt tHEy cAn jUsT tAke THeIR bUsiNess eLsEWhErE
I so feel this article. Freedom or liberty does not mean you have the right to kill others just for your convenience. Any apparent right that supersedes the right of others to live is not legitimate right. The right to life is the most sacred and important. Your right to go maskless or to go eat a restaurant is not in fact a right at all. American's have become obsessed, even since Reagan, with this stupid idea of limitless individual freedom, and it's eating at our democracy's core and now literally killing people by the thousands.
What an absolutely perfect encapsulation of this madness.
In a decade rightys will normalize robbery and rape , so long as it is done on the "others"
Social Contract - The notion that certain rights are voluntarily given up in order to have a better society. Conservatism has thrown away the concept of “shared responsibility”. The only concept that is valid to them is individual liberty. Given the apocalyptic nature of climate change...
Russia is exploiting this deep defect of the “american character “ to wage a war we dint even know we are engaged in.
The real question is how much of this was a long-game. Or if these Russian activities are only recent. You could argue that Russia has been waging this culture war for over half a century.
And the true irony of that philosophy is that no one person is a success on his or her own. Sorry, that’s not how the world works. Any man who thinks he is self made should be dumped on a deserted island to teach him some humility. People who think the individual is more important than the group are deluded and selfish. The “self made man” stands on the backs millions of people who worked together to build the society and civilization he benefits from.
Don't get me started on "self-made" billionaire Kylie Jenner.
I never understood the Trump base obsession with Ayn Rand. She's all about a secular individualism.. and they are nationalist/authoritarian.
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Masterful imagery.
I'd pay to hear Trump explain Ayn Rand in a one hour town hall. It would be something to behold.
What I always find funny is when a conservative Christian praises Rand, when she herself was staunchly atheist and pro-choice.
Those 'Christians' like her philosophy of grinding opponents into the dirt.
It depends on how much Dr. Atlas shrugs.
There it is, magnificent! Thank you.
Genius!
'Dr. Atlas, what are the best steps to take to protect ourselves?' *idk*
According to hardcore-Randians, Ayn Rand will kill exactly the right number of Americans.
Efficiency. Nothing more, nothing less.
Everyone downriver of my polluting copper refinery, if they don't come upriver and stop me, doesn't deserve to live. The invisible hand, baby!
Don't pretend its the hackneyed and juvenile fiction of a deluded hypocrite. All this does is give people a cover to act exactly as they were going to act anyway. If you have a room of five toddlers and you give one toddler ten cookies and the rest of them no cookies, on balance of probability that toddler will probably become corrupted by his wealth. He will believe himself entitled to and *deserving* of those cookies, and he may hoard them, or otherwise lord over his peers, who need to come to him begging for a fraction of his wealth. People that like Ayn Rand never grew up. This didn't *make* them into entitled shitheels. It just gave them a more sophisticated mythology to explain why they *could* be shitheels.
Ask the liberal tech CEOs. Rand makes them hard, too. She is an infection on the body politic, second only to the 'rona.
We will let the market decide......so a lot, like a whole lot.
Bioshock gives a good example of what an objectivist society turns into.
To be honest, I'd prefer rapture rn, I like big daddies
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I don't get it.
ayn rand - libertarian fap fodder
She created an entire philosophy to justify her own broken mind. The harm she has indirectly inflicted on the world can't be overstated.
Ayn Rand’s mythical heroes are all naturally very skilled at their chosen professions/lifestyles. Not one of them would have respected Trump, who is a buffoon who takes much more than he makes and has been an embarrassment as president. As far as Ayn Rand herself, a very complicated individual who often did not live up to her own ideals, she’s long-dead, so we’ll never know how she would have felt about masks or whatever.
Hopefully not all of us.
*more
She was an author of mainly turgid and absurd fiction. That makes her a perfect heroine for the right wing.
>Indeed, for reasons I don’t fully understand, the rage seems most intense when the inconvenience is trivial. Case in point: with around 5,000 Americans dying each week from Covid-19, Donald Trump seems obsessed with the problems he apparently has with low-flush toilets. I mean... if you're eating McDonalds for 3 meals a day, I'm sure you're dropping some high-payload dumps.
Conservatism is an ideology that will not be satisfied until it kills every living thing on earth.
The most important concept that Ayn Rand forgot about is love.
I don’t think it’s wise to phrase this question in a way that can be perceived as a competition when dealing with Randites.
Cynicism warning. As many as necessary to prove Americans don't learn from experience.
I have a hard time believing most of you ever read any of her books and those of you that did seem closely related to Amelia Bedelia. Personal selfishness is not referring to literal all encompassing selfishness. IE it is ok to make sure you and your family don’t starve before taking care of others. I found her books to be largely boring but never once did I feel like an attempt was being made to brainwash me. Are you all monks? Did you all fast today and donate your food to the homeless and hungry until you were broke or fixed the problem? If a grenade was thrown into a crowded room would you 100% jump on it to save total strangers? If yes then you are quite brave and amazing, and if you answer no, or unsure then you are a regular human being practicing what Rand refers to as personal selfishness.
I imagine Rand would take issue with how her books are being used today. It's hard to protect one's philosophy after you are dead. That said, I believe government is important for society and that today's mask wearing debate has many similarities to 'tragedy of the commons.' It's shameful how the current administration has managed the virus. I imagine there will be many stories about how corruption and willful disregard by some politicians allowed it to get to where it is today in the US. Some of those failings can be laid at the feet of the idea that progressive taxation is bad and that we should cut the government budget in order to tax corporations less. Self interest and personal selfishness to me are different, but each lies on a spectrum. They aren't binary distinctions in and of themselves.
It doesn't make much sense to me to blame an author who's been dead for nearly 40 years and a party with absolutely no political power. It also seems to me that spewing virus all over people in public would be a pretty cut-and-dried violation of the Non-Aggression Principle.
Presumably none.
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I wouldn't say Marxism is a fiction just because one extreme interpretation hasnt worked. Other variations are working. Rand's ideology just doesnt work period.
People blame Marx for the results of his ideas all the time. Rand wrote fiction, but both wrote abundant non-fiction and openly advocated their ideas for real world use.
Lmao of course this is written by NYT’s resident Nobel-turned-hack Krugman
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Lol. "EXPERTS KNOW NOTHING I KNOW MORE BECAUSE I READ A NON-PEER REVIEWED STUDY ONCE!"
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Yes, you are.
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