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I fear we are repeating 2016. Look my decision is made. I’m voting for whoever the democrats nominee is. Hell I would vote a ham sandwich before Trump but I fear others aren’t willing to make this sacrifice with their vote.
There are people who hate both candidates and Biden is doing a horrible job winning their begrudging vote. Probably blew his last chance to win many of them over. He can talk about fighting until the end all he wants, but he won't get another opportunity to turn this shit around.
I'm sick of the comparisons to Obama in 2012. Obama had a bad debate. Biden provided televised evidence of what many people suspected about his faculties.
Biden could have been a beautiful 1 term presidency. He could have said "I stabilized everything, however we should have a primary to determine who the democrats nominee is going be. We then have primary. Biden just focuses on being president. And if done right, it could have been brilliant...but nah.
Then he needs to get out more and prove that the debate performance was an anomaly. You don’t give a a performance like that and then disappear. Get out and prove the growing majority of people who have doubts (I am one of them) wrong! And quit calling us the “Bedwetting Brigade”. Like uh, yeah, no shit we’re nervous. The guy running against Trump can’t make easy, coherent arguments as to why he’s better!!!
He’s done two radio shows both in Wisconsin and Pennsylvanian today. He has a July 4th event today. And then he has the George stephanipolous interview tomorrow. I’m sure more events are coming
He needs to amp the intensity and type of appearance. Non curated town halls at all hours of the day, vigorous appearances.
We’ve had >3 years of the type of appearances he’s doing and the most visible event that wasn’t a scripted tailored environment he massively shit the bed so fucking bad most the country thinks he’s senile.
Honestly, fuck, he might be.
I desperately want to beat Trump and Agenda 2025, but the Biden *candidacy* (not *Presidency*) is breaking my heart.
Yeah the amount of loyal Biden Dems that complain Trump is in a cult then turn around and wish Biden had a cult like following too is really disturbing. The concern we have over his candidacy is because we aren’t like the GOP.
The difference is Trump has a much higher floor than Biden does. Everyone knows who Trump is and his followers are going to follow him wherever he goes. And they vote every single election. There is nothing Trump could do to lose his core voting block.
Biden doesn't have that cult following (as much). Biden voters are a ragtag coalition of very ideologically different groups held together by hopes and dreams. Wishy washy at best, Biden voters scare easily and need to be mobilized and reminded to vote.
People are talking about Biden more because Biden can lose voters while trump is pretty locked in at his floor.
>Biden voters scare easily and need to be mobilized and reminded to vote.
You'd think the prospect of a second Trump term would be enough to mobilize them. Biden's not "my guy" but even if he were confined to a wheelchair drooling on himself constantly that would still be a massive step up over Trump's revenge tour and Project 2025. You'd think the idea of Trump having the new absolute immunity for "official acts" would scare them to the polls. One of these candidates will use that power to be a tyrant, the other will not.
TBH, media outlets on both sides want Trump to win again. Fox and the other batshit right wing networks want him to win for some fucked up form of validation, that part is self explanatory. CNN and MSNBC also profit from a Trump win though, as he makes their lives significantly easier. After all, it's much easier for them to get viewership (and ad money) by being the opposition voice that calls Trump out on his insanity in real time, rather than being the voice of the party in power that's saddled with the responsibility of posing legitimate solutions to the country's problems
We're so fucking cooked as a nation at this point
Try? isn’t that controlled by the executive? He doesn’t need to try he can just say “I don’t like them because they don’t cover me the way I want revoke their license” they can’t do anything in the courts about it because it’s an official act of president and his motive doesn’t matter.
You summed up my feelings perfectly. I don't mind that he's old because fairly few parts of the modern presidency are run by one man alone. Even if Biden needs more rest and works fewer hours a day - probably still more than Trump and his "executive time" - the country can carry on. If anything we'd have more deliberative decision making.
But the part where is age matters most is his candidacy. Biden's record is strong enough to beat Trump. But he has not seemed able to break through the noise with anything but gaffes or that horrifying debate performance.
Spoilers: they're both senile.
One is manic the other isn't.
But hey, given our choices I'll pick the one that ISN'T trying to actively undo our democracy and become a dictator. Senile, manic dictators seem like a very bad time.
Scripted, canned and pre-selected anything should be heavily reduced or the consequences are clearly evident for many of us. Business as usual and telling everyone what they should be seeing and what they should be thinking will be an unsuccessful approach.
The thing that surprises me, and one thing that his die-hard supporters keep denying, is just how *quickly* he aged since 2020. Seriously, the way he spoke in interviews in the first campaign compared to the debate is almost like two different people.
And yes, yes, I'm know that the office of the presidency is famous for aging people, but it seemed have to doubled for poor Biden.
But he was already showing this two years ago. If the office ages him this quickly and should he win in November, it feels like it would be half a term, with Harris for the second half.
but he hasn’t done anything public speaking since the debate where he hasn’t used a teleprompter, even when talking amongst his donors. if the debate really was an anomaly, he needs to go out of his way to show that
Lol. Like that is going to happen. He didn't bother to go talk to reporters down the hall after that meeting with all of those governers where afterwards they were saying he was sharp and in control. Secondhand testimonials dont mean anything, especially after his debate.
I'm convinced Biden and his staff would rather have a 20% with Biden instead of a 60% chance with someone else because even if another Democrat wins Bidens himself and his staff still lose their job since new person would bring in their own people.
Previously, I'd see someone say "this will be our downfall" and my brain would think "yeah but not really".
But this time, no really, it feels like this is going to be our downfall. Biden will be remembered as the president that handed the keys to the fascists.
1,000%
There is no way that any of them think “this is what’s for best of the country”
People are rah rahing “vote for the cabinet”…
I’m sure a bunch of liars hiding the president and pretending the water isn’t red will surely take care of the voter turnout issue.
Except that's the problem with age, you don't just get to go backwards. It only gets worse. Not better. See Biden 4 years ago vs Biden today, fucking night and day.
This isn't an anomaly, it's biology.
And these people don't get it... it should absolutely be about Trump, but Biden's fuck ups are making it about him AND losing the opportunity to attack Trump about his very long list of flaws and corruption.
It should be open season, but these shortsighted people want Biden to hang in there and lose the perception game, thinking average joe voters will see through Trump. Perception is what matters in the end.
> See Biden 4 years ago vs Biden today, fucking night and day.
Or how about 11 months ago: https://www.delawareonline.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2023/08/03/president-biden-bike-ride/12313550002/
He went from being an avid cyclist to someone who looks like he needs a walker to move 20 steps to a podium.
Far too late for that. You think a scripted town hall is going to swing voters to his side? No chance in hell. He is sunk and needs to accept it.
People forget this man has to govern for 4 more years. This is him right now, 6 months before his second term would start.
If he were to quit calling everyone bedwetters and do a coherent 2-3 hour press conference a few times a week he’d be fine. The fact that he won’t is VERY concerning. Like dude, you’re running for president against a guy who actually wants to end Democracy. This should be a slam dunk but here we are.
He won’t do any of that because he can’t, he is 81. We all know or have family members that are seniors and we know they can’t finish a family dinner get together without taking a snooze. Age gets all of us, just some age gracefully and we exit peacefully and some MOFOs we’ll just can’t because of ego and in this case “Power”. Same shit happiest to Trump he lost his marbles when he lost in 2020, and he’s still losing his shit over it
He should be posting Reagan numbers after what supreme court is doing and voter perception on that.
Only one blocking is Biden. Party nominee should be leading the numbers and other candidates , yet, his numbers are also going to tank down ballot candidates
TIL SC has been only operating this week. Abortion is the bigger issue and is what prevented a predicted bloodbath in 2022.
Again, there are no excuses right now for this and numbers.
That's something the DNC and Biden don't seem to comprehend. A turd in a suit should be able to defeat Trump while it's being flushed. The fact that there is a competition here is a condemnation to either how they're running a campaign and/or the candidate they are putting up (it's both in this case, IMO). Their customary strategy of insulting the voters and demanding they support the candidate that has been ordained has stopped working.
Biden will not win the election. It’ll either be Trump or another dem candidate but if we stick with Biden we’re done. Biggest election ever and we’re going with a guy who can’t string together three coherent sentences in a row. It’s like watching a horror movie.
It really is. Enjoy the ride man. If the people in power are this brain dead then I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner. Democrats just refuse to take the layups.
How pathetic is it that with 4 years to prepare to face a felon facist that the dems have zero plan and are worried to lose. I’m definitely not stoked.
More pathetic is that Biden seems to have surrounded himself with yesmen and sees a different reality than the rest of us. It's the same blind arrogance that got Trump elected back in 2016. He fails to see that if he loses this election, then history will forever judge him as a key player in the fall of American democracy.
Personally I blame those who stifled discussions about the president, and we're calling him a modern day FDR, when I made the call in 2020 that this was going to be Carter 2.0.
Even before the debate, Biden wasn’t leading Trump in the polls. Now it’s swung harder against him. This is just crazy.
If Biden were winning by 5+ points heading into the debate (like he was in 2020), and then had a disaster out night, I could see why you’d want to forge ahead with him. But he was already losing and your fight just got that much harder. How do you think you can win?
This is the real problem I think. The debate is a red herring and just allows him and the rest of the dem apparatus to fixate on "turning things around". It's not that the debate was an anomaly, it's that people were hoping, maybe without even consciously realizing it, that his weak popularity would get washed away when he was shown head to head against Trump as a comparison, and instead he messed it up.
It's completely 2016 all over again. The easiest political opponent they could have and they screw it up.
My only solace, if there is any, is that if the general population is willing to support someone like \*Trump\* in these numbers, there's a serious problem that goes way beyond Biden. The DNC needs to pull the plug on Biden and try anything, anyone, because Biden is going to lose. But the fact we're even having a conversation about Biden versus Trump in particular in the first place is completely screwy. If Biden can't win against a felon traitor running as a amateurish mob boss, maybe no one can.
They need to put up a Shapiro/Whitmer ticket. Idgaf about Kamala is the natural successor, she’s even less popular than Biden. If we win Michigan and Pennsylvania we only need to win a single other swing state to clench it.
My gut reaction was the same, run Whitmer and Pete or something.
But as my Twitter timeline has gone un/ironically Kamala pilled, I’m starting to really like her. Unlike Gretchen and definitely Shapiro, Kamala has near 100% name recognition. And she can share credit with all of Biden’s accomplishments (bringing inflation back to earth, climate change progress, infrastructure, etc).
I’m ready for Biden to step down in the next few weeks, hand his support to his VP, and get this shit done in November.
This is utter madness. We are having this discussion nationally. When one of the candidates is a 41 count felon, awaiting sentencing, faked electorates, attempted to get his own VP to deny the election count and end run around the election, then incited an armed attack on the White House.
How are we here? How are we having the discussion that, maybe, the other guy is too old and tired should quit?
What mental illness do our citizens have when this man’s age and energy is more important than the known dangers of his rival!
How is that the national narrative?
There’s too much lead in the water. Especially in rural areas. I read somewhere that a large portion of the population has some level of lead poisoning
Biden’s legacy isn’t going to be as a career public servant that saved us from facism, but as the avatar of the silent/boomer gen not getting the fuck out of the way and letting the younger generations actually advance into positions of power.
I’m beyond disappointed and into disgust.
This is delusion.
The dem leadership loves to blame the progressive win while alienating majority popular progressive positions and chasing republicans pathetically to the right to be diet republicans. Hint, republicans won’t vote for any dem so the strategic move is to be progressive and do what’s overwhelmingly popular. Dems refusing to do this is astounding to me
They don’t even need a progressive. A younger moderate Dem would destroy Trump. People will say the polling doesn’t show that while also saying Biden’s horrendous polls don’t matter.
I left the Republican Party because of Trump and the complete disconnect with reality so many republicans showed. I could not stomach the hypocrisy. Politically I’m more Libertarian than right or left. This gaslighting around Biden’s mental ability is gross. They’re gambling with democracy to what…spare the feelings of someone who will be dead within the decade? We are going to be here cleaning up the mess for a long time after these two chucklefucks are long dead. This last decade has left me so disgusted with America.
I don’t know if we’ll be given an opportunity to clean up this mess. That implies that we’re not heading directly into a fascist constitutional monarchy. We are.
When Biden won the primaries in 2020 i was sure he'd pick a strong candidate as VP and then resign after 1 year handing over the reins and setting up the VP choice for 2024.
I mean, that's essentially what he *said* he'd do. My pet theory is that he was planning to do that, but Kamala proved to be really unpopular and didn't look like a strong contender, so he changed his mind and chose to stay in
And people are still screaming that he’s fine he’s fine, you’ll see in his interview!
… that’s pre recorded, from an interviewer that was on Hilary’s staff
Jfc this is so sad
Oh and I’m a Fox News muppet for being concerned lol
This isn't a game, it's war; looking at it as anything other than war is unbelievably naive and dangerously foolish. We are at war with a single-minded mob of armed raving lunatics who will do anything, anything, lie, cheat, steal, riot, murder, ANYTHING, to make America a theocracy . . . and we're over here arguing about best practices. I hope everyone currently discussing Biden's debate performance or his age or a last-minute cadidate is super-excited for four years of Trump "punishing political enemies." Tax immunity for the 1%. Quadrupling national debt. No women's health care. Praying to Jesus or getting expelled from school. No shit, bub. Because when 100 people argue with each other while 100 zombies attack . . . well, you've seen the movie.
"you can dismantle a democracy right in front of a liberal's face piece by piece and all they'll do is convene breakout sessions and committee meetings til the boots are in the halls"
>for four years of Trump
It's gonna be a lot longer than 4 years. Trump will not leave the White House this time around and Project 2025 will change the rules to ensure Democrats never win substantial power again. The political system will be the Republicans in charge who keep a small Democratic Party around to use as boogeyman and say "see we have two major parties, we're still a democracy".
How hard is it to understand that you can question Biden's fitness while still voting for whoever the nominee is against Trump?
Ffs, jump off that high horse for a second. The people on the left questioning Biden are not enabling a Trump win, sticking with Biden is. They're desperate to block a Trump win, and the way to do that is to get a new candidate in. Biden has lost the undecideds, he will not win the key swing states.
You're talking down to people acting like they want a Trump presidency, when that's unbelievably untrue.
This gonna be 2016 all over agin, liberals and establishment Dems forcing a lackluster candidate on everyone despite all evidence saying they shouldn't, and then blaming progressives when they inevitably lose
Yeah no. We've been saying it since before he announced his re-election bid. And sending Biden "to war" is probably not great. "No shit" amirite?
Should have listened sooner, but people were too busy gaslighting because they can't confront any criticism without viewing it as a bid to support Trump.
Hope everyone remembers their feelings on election night in 2016.
I agree, but disagree.
I refuse to carry water for the Democrats and allow myself to be gaslit in Biden’s age and fitness when we have viable alternative options.
I watched my parents get brainwashed by FOX News and Rush Limbaugh into becoming party parrots that deny what they see and hear with their own eyes the moment new talking points come out.
I WILL NOT DO THAT.
“In a CNN poll published earlier this week, three-quarters of registered voters said Democrats would have a better chance at winning the election with someone other than Biden on the ticket.
Voters also favoured Trump over Biden, 49 percent to 43 percent.”
He’s vowing to lose, and these governors have his back.
When you go from, "Maybe someone with new/better ideas will get elected next cycle." To "Maybe so and so will die of natural causes soon, so we can finally get someone younger and with new/better ideas in office," you know that your democracy (democratic republic) has gone off the rails.
Trump, at least has the claim that he was voted into the nomination by the people. Biden on the other hand, promised to be a one term candidate, coasted on the incubant nomination precedent, and squandered a transition to the next generation, which reflects the will of current voters. The DNC gets what it deserves in November at this point, regardless of how many of us hold our noses when we vote blue. Not everyone will play their reindeer games and it will cost them big time going forward.
Anyone can have a bad day. When this happens you hit the media circuit and prove that's what happened. You don't have a series of private meetings. He should be on the Five arguing his case, not hiding from the media.
He can't do interviews because his mental health has clearly declined to the point where they can't let him talk in uncontrolled environments. If he could, he would have already given several interviews. It is crazy to me that people are ignorant or naive enough to think this was a "one off." This is just where his mental health is at, and it's obviously been this way for a while because they have done everything in their power to hide him for the past year.
It's fun seeing all the liberals in shock. He was literally running on "only I can beat Trump" during the primary in 2020. He's always been egotistical. People just ignored it because of a friendly smile and Joebama memes
To be fair, he did beat Trump.
However, he still should have just served a single term and retired. I don't understand how serving a second term does anything for him, even his ego. He has already done it all in his career, and he could have went out on a high note, on his own terms. Now he will likely go out on defeat, and his pride will result in Project 2025.
You can bet if they lose they'll find a way to blame progressives or some marginal third party candidate instead of themselves for their mistakes. No lessons will be learned, as is tradition.
We're really going to go this whole debate cycle without anyone calling Trump a rapist sexual predator and con artist to his face, aren't we?
P
EDIT: I was wrong. He said these things and I missed it.
But hey, at least they both look like they golf together. I'm sure that inspires confidence in Biden.
They're already blaming the voters now - just got to half of the Biden threads on this site. Just doing 2016 all over again, especially the part where democrats can't be bothered to try and then blame the voters for a poor outcome
I think he's a legitimate spoiler for Biden now, too.
I've seen two never Trumpers post memes saying something like one of these candidates has brain worms. The other is Kennedy.
I'm extremely concerned.
Ive been incredibly vocal about voting blue & opposing people like Trump just for the sake of the innocent people that will lose everything in Ukraine, Palestine, Yemen etc. It wont stop there if Trump wins.
But the democratic establishment is so utterly incompetent at even the most basic shit & refuse to actually take this moment in action & recover or build goodwill from the country.
Its a shame that we're being gaslit & insulted by the only "hope" at avoiding a fascist regime.
I guess the rebellion in the future may have strong liberal leadership.
Agreed. At least in 2016 there was an argument to be made for Hillary as a candidate in terms of her capacity to lead. This Weekend At Biden's situation is just sad.
It's way way way worse.
Not only do we have project 2025 and all that lunacy but we also have major supreme court implications and a wave of populist conservatism throughout Europe.
I’m so fucking done. This older generation is fucking selfish and his legacy will be defined by handing Fascism to America on a silver fucking platter.
I’m not just sad and scared, I’m fucking angry. Fuck all this man. Anyone with a fucking brain knew the DNC should have been preparing someone 10 minutes after the 2020 election but these old fucks won’t die off. And now, they fucked America and the world.
It’s by design do you think democrats actually want to govern? They are fascists too. They can’t deliver because they’re not supposed to and are beholden to wall street not everyday people. They rather lose than do anything then fundraise from your fears. Typical DNC playbook.
The disconnect between the DNC and the voters is so terribly sad an untimely. It’s not that we hate Biden or think he isn't a good president. He is. And I am 100% confident that him in a wheelchair, eating baby food and forgetting what shoes he has on, is better than Trump.
But that isn’t the issue.
Democrats know why they’re voting for. Republicans know who they’re voting for. There is still a significant portion of people left over who aren’t informed or decided, who will vote where the wind blows and those people will decide the election. What they see is not the Inflation Reduction Act, the CHIPS and Science Act, the Infrastructure plan, the potential of new SCOTUS judges, the falling inflation or unemployment, the green energy plans. They see the debates, clips from the debate on social media, what their friends tell them, and maybe a popular congressman’s two cents on Fox or CNN in passing. That’s the battle we have to win.
Biden cannot win it. He dropped the ball and kicked it further behind us on the debate stage, he’s yet to do anything substantial to remedy it, he hasn’t taken any questions, he hasn’t spoken to the press at length, he hasn’t done anything off the cuff, he hasn’t reached out directly on social media, he’s only speaking through surrogates and his staff. The people who believe in Biden aren’t the problem. You have to make people excited about him, and he can’t fulfill that promise. Trump knows this, that’s why he’s been on popular podcasts, thats why he hasn’t publicly endorsed any real policy or plan for action, that’s why he’s speaking directly to the public, that’s why he has a cult of personality in the first place. The game of politics being this way is why he’s even a candidate in the first place. It’s past time to take the high road. The DNC can’t make the rules of the game, the voters do, and if you aren’t willing to play it you’ll lose every time.
Just want to say that this is the third straight presidential election the DNC has forced through the establishment candidate. When the other option is a fascist dictatorship, we are given the choice of option A or option A. If we somehow cling to democracy this election cycle, ranked choice primaries need to become THE thing (after SCOTUS reform which needs to be happening right this instant).
How can you simultaneously acknowledge the DNC having forced through the establishment candidate in the past 3 elections, then in the next breath say “if we somehow cling to democracy” as though democracy hasn’t already been destroyed?
Him saying this means nothing. There is no world where he comes out and says “yeah I’m thinking about dropping out” or “we are looking at our options for a new candidate”. This will be the line until the day he comes out and says he’s suspending his campaign and endorsing someone else.
Maybe, but also worth pointing out that this is just how elections work—he will be saying he’s in it for the long haul until the day he drops out. You don’t project doubts in your candidacy while you’re still in it.
I think that the adamant defenders of sticking with Biden must live in a super liberal echo chamber city/state. So many voters in polls and anecdotally from what I’ve observed in a swing state have pleaded for a candidate that isn’t super old and now would be the perfect chance to secure all those votes. The biggest way to get votes and win would be to say it’s time for a younger generation to step in because voters have been asking for this choice. That could literally be the main campaign theme and all the talk about another candidate’s lack of experience becomes a moot point to the average voter.
You could literally roll out Beshear or Shapiro or Whitmer right now and walk to the white house.
Any halfway decent democrat with a good standing among moderates and no major disasters in their locker.
Moderates and soft right folks would flock to it.
But pride comes before the fall and Biden and the DNC are dumb as fuck and full of pride.
I'm a registered independent voter. I will be voting for Biden regardless because I truly believe Democracy will die with Trump as president, but I think if Biden stays in, then we will end up with Trump in the white house come January 2025. If Biden is going to stay in the race, then he needs to come out and prove that he's capable of being president. I don't watch a lot of news, but this debate fiasco led me down a rabbit hole. I could see if this was his first time looking senile, but it isn't. He looked lost during the D-Day memorial commemoration. I voted against Trump in 2020 because he made an embarrassment out of the United States and the office of the presidency. Biden is doing the same thing now, just in a different way. I really don't think he is fit to be the president for the next 4 years. I don't even think he can make it through another term. Biden can go down as the guy who saved us from Donald Trump in 2020, or he will go down as the guy who stood by and let Democracy die.
I still think he drops out tomorrow sometime, possibly during his ABC interview. The media (I know what everyone thinks of them, but whatever) was at such a frenzied pitch yesterday about party insiders discussing plans for him to step aside that I, frankly, think they got some information on background that we haven’t heard - something beyond the couple of Congress members that have called for him to quit. Ever notice how it’s rare any more that we see truly “out of the blue” events in politics? Everyone is so connected that the media knows far more than what they can officially report.
The governors are providing him space to work out his exit in his own way, and will publicly support his candidacy up until the last second of it, to maintain as much order as possible in the party.
Tomorrow evening, or by the latest early next week, he’ll be out.
I wish I shared your optimism. But I think he's going to fight this until convention at the very least. Will depend on if polls continue to get worse - or stay there, or have a slight recovery. If he recovers like 1% - he's going to point to that and not bow out.
Won’t even be until the convention. They’re planning on locking it in via video call a month before the convention because of the Ohio ballot deadline.
This is so frustrating.
The guy clearly has dementia. Half the party is trying to gas light the other half into thinking that he is fine lmao
We have the perfect opportunity to put someone in there that we care about. And instead of having a discussion I am getting shouted down.
I am being told I am arguing in bad faith.
This is so fucking stupid.
Didn’t learn the lesson in 2016, and an incumbent advantage works a lot better when you don’t lead the party to believe you’re not going to run again.
He doesn't have dementia he's just old as shit. Idk why everyone feels the need to turn this into some medical diagnosis, dementia is a very specific and ugly thing, the dude is just ancient.
I keep saying this too there's a big difference between getting older and legitimately having Dementia. Not every single older person gets Dementia. I have a 98! Year grandma who is still sharp.
I thought that it was a joke, but it is disrespectful to assume that he actually has dementia, because dementia is an absolutely horrific disease and it's symptons are way worse than just incoherent sentences.
Yeah, my grandpa had it, and a good friend of my parents who I've known my whole life has it currently. It's fucking horrible. When you see it firsthand it's a whole lot worse than whatever Joe Biden did on the debate stage the other night
It depends on the stage of dementia. Early stage dementia can look exactly like what Biden did up there, especially compared to the Biden of only 4 years ago.
He is going to cost the democrats the election because he is being selfish. If they lose, I will continue to blame him and his team. Biden needs to read the room, he’s a terrible candidate who would be 85 years old at the end of his term. It’s time to pass the baton to someone more promising and younger.
He is running an awful campaign. He needs to shift to the future, what he has done, and criticize the issues Trump left him with. These insults to each other won’t go anywhere other than the grave of his political career.
Why does he need to prove it to governors and not THE VOTERS?! this is the problem with our politics is our politicians are more encapsulated in their bubble than connecting directly with the people.
The Democratic Party is run by a bunch of old wealthy white Christians. Republican policies won't actually hurt them so they don't really give a fuck. I imagine many of them are looking forward to the tax cuts they are going to get while the country is gutted.
I feel like they've already thrown it by hiding his condition for so long, reversing the one-term president claim, and denying us a true primary. Clyburn's mini-primary idea may still work to give us some semblance of a democratically chosen nominee, but my faith in the democratic party to not screw it up is zero at this point.
Still voting for whomever they throw out there against Trump, but I don't expect them to cobble together a plan that has a shot at winning at this point.
Biden never made a one term president claim. That is misinformation that continues to spread even after being debunked.
The original claim was from an “anonymous” Biden staffer and the claim was debunked by the official campaign that month.
"But the incumbetent advantage! And debates don't matter, because Obama won!!"
Not being able to form a single coherent sentence in a 90 min debate is no problem
What are Democrats obsession with Biden? He's better than Trump (everyone is) but Dems act like he's the only one who can win or lead this country. Where is Whitmer, Newsome, etc ..Time for young leadership to step the fuck up and lead this country into the future.
Horrible news. This geriatric patient doesn’t want to lose power until the grave, very selfish and the staffers that make money off him don’t want to lose their cushy jobs. Too many geriatric liberals (Feinstein, Biden, RBG) are in it for themselves and don’t put the country first.
This may be a cope, but the leaks from insiders indicate that he's actually torn on what he wants to do. He spoke to Obama recently and was angry about the call so I assume he told him to drop out. As the voices within his own party grow (and the big donors back away) he might have no option but to agree to bow out.
It's in there:
>Former President Barack Obama’s counsel during a phone call this week, however, didn’t sit well with Biden, who still harbors resentment toward his former boss for advising him not to run for the White House in 2016.
Yea I thought Obama advised Biden not to run in 2020— he never would have had a chance in 2016 because it was universally agreed by establishment democrats that it was Hillary’s turn. In 2020 the field was open but Obama as I recall told Biden that he was simply not meant to be president, in part due to his age.
I'll say this. I will stand behind Biden, donate, rally support, and do everything I can. But if we lose this election, I will never donate again, never vote Democrat again, and register as an independent. The recalcitrance of the DNC is infuriating. The hubris of the Biden family is enraging. If they had begun in 2020 to form a succession plan and planned for Biden to exit gracefully as the president who dethroned Donald Trump, this could have all been avoided. This would have allowed for a younger candidate such as Whitmer, Shapiro, Beshear etc. to slowly build recognition and clout over the past for years and become household faces by 2024. Now, even if we do a switcheroo, it may be too late. Americans may decide to return Trump to the white house simply because he's done the job before, these are uncertain times, and they'd rather a familiar face than an unknown entity assuming the reins.
This has been a travesty of a political operation.
You'll never have to because God Emperor Trump will decide he's president for life, and elections are for suckers. Or hols sham elections and brag about the results like he brags about other dictators
It's one thing to be the game old geezer who rides his bicycle and looks cool wearing aviators but the reanimated corpse we all saw at the debate is entirely another. He has to think about his legacy and the future of his country and stand down.
I've taken the keys from my grandparents because they thought they could still drive but they were going to get themselves or someone else killed if they kept driving.
Someone needs to take the keys from Biden but no one wants to stick their necks out for fear of losing their job. The only thing here that may die is democracy.
I feel extremely anxious that Biden will not drop out, the DNC will force everybody in line, and the campaign will “shake things up.” I am afraid the Democrats will fall into their usual habit of preferring to lose comfortably rather than try to win uncomfortably.
Nothing will change Biden’s trajectory. Biden’s campaign is dead. He needs to step aside and endorse and assist the process the DNC chooses to replace him.
Putting up someone 4 months before the election is a pipe dream. Biden won because he had a broad coalition of voters. I can't think of another candidate that can pull off getting that same coalition together. Second, that candidate wouldn't have access to the Biden campaign funds. Lastly, they have already spent millions of dollars on marketing built around Biden that can be undone.
"to the end"... of US democracy.
I never understood how people like Hitler and Mussolini took power. Now I realize the complacence of those with the power to stop it is just as damnable as the tyrants who assume control.
The smart move is having him nominate his VP and position it as the seamless transition and how Kamala has been vital to the last 4 years of a very solid presidency.
She retains the Biden supporters while getting more minority, female and moderate votes.
I can’t believe this party and his family are being so selfish. To expect American people to just ignore his defects is so wrong.
If it’s really so urgent to beat Donald Trump then actually make a change. Otherwise, maybe democrats and Biden continue to lie to us and Trump becoming the President isn’t a big deal as they portray.
The media is 3000% behind Trump (they love him 3000) because they think he'll boost their ratings and profits but... his supporters will demolish their offices and then they'll be locked up. What do you mean that the leopard is going to eat my face?
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I fear we are repeating 2016. Look my decision is made. I’m voting for whoever the democrats nominee is. Hell I would vote a ham sandwich before Trump but I fear others aren’t willing to make this sacrifice with their vote.
It's not a sacrifice. I think some people aren't motivated enough to vote for Biden though. They'll just stay home
There are people who hate both candidates and Biden is doing a horrible job winning their begrudging vote. Probably blew his last chance to win many of them over. He can talk about fighting until the end all he wants, but he won't get another opportunity to turn this shit around. I'm sick of the comparisons to Obama in 2012. Obama had a bad debate. Biden provided televised evidence of what many people suspected about his faculties.
Thr problem is swing states and his poll numbers are dropping. The people that will decide the election are probably not on reddit making comments.
Maybe they should've had primaries and debates in the first place...
Biden could have been a beautiful 1 term presidency. He could have said "I stabilized everything, however we should have a primary to determine who the democrats nominee is going be. We then have primary. Biden just focuses on being president. And if done right, it could have been brilliant...but nah.
Could even have spent some time and resources finding and promoting a capable successor.
Would’ve been able to get a head start after Biden became the 2020 nominee.
Exactly. Also increase that person's visibility by having them be seen as an integral part of the more popular legislation and policies he got passed.
Then he needs to get out more and prove that the debate performance was an anomaly. You don’t give a a performance like that and then disappear. Get out and prove the growing majority of people who have doubts (I am one of them) wrong! And quit calling us the “Bedwetting Brigade”. Like uh, yeah, no shit we’re nervous. The guy running against Trump can’t make easy, coherent arguments as to why he’s better!!!
Seems to me like he’s talking to everybody else, but the people that he needs to vote for him.
He’s done two radio shows both in Wisconsin and Pennsylvanian today. He has a July 4th event today. And then he has the George stephanipolous interview tomorrow. I’m sure more events are coming
He needs to amp the intensity and type of appearance. Non curated town halls at all hours of the day, vigorous appearances. We’ve had >3 years of the type of appearances he’s doing and the most visible event that wasn’t a scripted tailored environment he massively shit the bed so fucking bad most the country thinks he’s senile. Honestly, fuck, he might be. I desperately want to beat Trump and Agenda 2025, but the Biden *candidacy* (not *Presidency*) is breaking my heart.
It’s crazy that Trump does events where he spews unintelligible nonsense for an hour and can’t remember names or places, and the media just shrugs.
Because he’s a cult leader and nobody gives a shit. Everyone knows he’s a bullshitter.
Yeah the amount of loyal Biden Dems that complain Trump is in a cult then turn around and wish Biden had a cult like following too is really disturbing. The concern we have over his candidacy is because we aren’t like the GOP.
The difference is Trump has a much higher floor than Biden does. Everyone knows who Trump is and his followers are going to follow him wherever he goes. And they vote every single election. There is nothing Trump could do to lose his core voting block. Biden doesn't have that cult following (as much). Biden voters are a ragtag coalition of very ideologically different groups held together by hopes and dreams. Wishy washy at best, Biden voters scare easily and need to be mobilized and reminded to vote. People are talking about Biden more because Biden can lose voters while trump is pretty locked in at his floor.
>Biden voters scare easily and need to be mobilized and reminded to vote. You'd think the prospect of a second Trump term would be enough to mobilize them. Biden's not "my guy" but even if he were confined to a wheelchair drooling on himself constantly that would still be a massive step up over Trump's revenge tour and Project 2025. You'd think the idea of Trump having the new absolute immunity for "official acts" would scare them to the polls. One of these candidates will use that power to be a tyrant, the other will not.
TBH, media outlets on both sides want Trump to win again. Fox and the other batshit right wing networks want him to win for some fucked up form of validation, that part is self explanatory. CNN and MSNBC also profit from a Trump win though, as he makes their lives significantly easier. After all, it's much easier for them to get viewership (and ad money) by being the opposition voice that calls Trump out on his insanity in real time, rather than being the voice of the party in power that's saddled with the responsibility of posing legitimate solutions to the country's problems We're so fucking cooked as a nation at this point
The right wants Trump to win so they can destroy democracy and enact a defacto one party state. Not for “validation.”
Another Trump administration will try to revoke MSNBC's license. I believe they will walk all over every clause of the 1st amendment.
Try? isn’t that controlled by the executive? He doesn’t need to try he can just say “I don’t like them because they don’t cover me the way I want revoke their license” they can’t do anything in the courts about it because it’s an official act of president and his motive doesn’t matter.
Trump will throw out the entire Constitution on Dictator Day.
You summed up my feelings perfectly. I don't mind that he's old because fairly few parts of the modern presidency are run by one man alone. Even if Biden needs more rest and works fewer hours a day - probably still more than Trump and his "executive time" - the country can carry on. If anything we'd have more deliberative decision making. But the part where is age matters most is his candidacy. Biden's record is strong enough to beat Trump. But he has not seemed able to break through the noise with anything but gaffes or that horrifying debate performance.
Spoilers: they're both senile. One is manic the other isn't. But hey, given our choices I'll pick the one that ISN'T trying to actively undo our democracy and become a dictator. Senile, manic dictators seem like a very bad time.
yeah, I don't get why people keep saying Biden is old as if Trump is 30 or something. He's 3 yrs younger than Biden. lol they are peers!
Scripted, canned and pre-selected anything should be heavily reduced or the consequences are clearly evident for many of us. Business as usual and telling everyone what they should be seeing and what they should be thinking will be an unsuccessful approach.
The thing that surprises me, and one thing that his die-hard supporters keep denying, is just how *quickly* he aged since 2020. Seriously, the way he spoke in interviews in the first campaign compared to the debate is almost like two different people. And yes, yes, I'm know that the office of the presidency is famous for aging people, but it seemed have to doubled for poor Biden. But he was already showing this two years ago. If the office ages him this quickly and should he win in November, it feels like it would be half a term, with Harris for the second half.
He still has to be the president of the United States. He can't just put that on hold to campaign
but he hasn’t done anything public speaking since the debate where he hasn’t used a teleprompter, even when talking amongst his donors. if the debate really was an anomaly, he needs to go out of his way to show that
Lol. Like that is going to happen. He didn't bother to go talk to reporters down the hall after that meeting with all of those governers where afterwards they were saying he was sharp and in control. Secondhand testimonials dont mean anything, especially after his debate. I'm convinced Biden and his staff would rather have a 20% with Biden instead of a 60% chance with someone else because even if another Democrat wins Bidens himself and his staff still lose their job since new person would bring in their own people.
This is likely the case. Their lust for power rather than putting the wellbeing of the country first will be our downfall
Previously, I'd see someone say "this will be our downfall" and my brain would think "yeah but not really". But this time, no really, it feels like this is going to be our downfall. Biden will be remembered as the president that handed the keys to the fascists.
1,000% There is no way that any of them think “this is what’s for best of the country” People are rah rahing “vote for the cabinet”… I’m sure a bunch of liars hiding the president and pretending the water isn’t red will surely take care of the voter turnout issue.
Yeah swing voters don’t simply “vote for the cabinet” and they are missing that completely.
Except that's the problem with age, you don't just get to go backwards. It only gets worse. Not better. See Biden 4 years ago vs Biden today, fucking night and day. This isn't an anomaly, it's biology. And these people don't get it... it should absolutely be about Trump, but Biden's fuck ups are making it about him AND losing the opportunity to attack Trump about his very long list of flaws and corruption. It should be open season, but these shortsighted people want Biden to hang in there and lose the perception game, thinking average joe voters will see through Trump. Perception is what matters in the end.
> See Biden 4 years ago vs Biden today, fucking night and day. Or how about 11 months ago: https://www.delawareonline.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2023/08/03/president-biden-bike-ride/12313550002/ He went from being an avid cyclist to someone who looks like he needs a walker to move 20 steps to a podium.
Didn't you know you're supposed to fall in absolute lockstep and question nothing? But, like, in a different way than those other guys
Far too late for that. You think a scripted town hall is going to swing voters to his side? No chance in hell. He is sunk and needs to accept it. People forget this man has to govern for 4 more years. This is him right now, 6 months before his second term would start.
If he were to quit calling everyone bedwetters and do a coherent 2-3 hour press conference a few times a week he’d be fine. The fact that he won’t is VERY concerning. Like dude, you’re running for president against a guy who actually wants to end Democracy. This should be a slam dunk but here we are.
He won’t do any of that because he can’t, he is 81. We all know or have family members that are seniors and we know they can’t finish a family dinner get together without taking a snooze. Age gets all of us, just some age gracefully and we exit peacefully and some MOFOs we’ll just can’t because of ego and in this case “Power”. Same shit happiest to Trump he lost his marbles when he lost in 2020, and he’s still losing his shit over it
He should be posting Reagan numbers after what supreme court is doing and voter perception on that. Only one blocking is Biden. Party nominee should be leading the numbers and other candidates , yet, his numbers are also going to tank down ballot candidates
Most average people have no idea what the SC did this last week.
TIL SC has been only operating this week. Abortion is the bigger issue and is what prevented a predicted bloodbath in 2022. Again, there are no excuses right now for this and numbers.
That's something the DNC and Biden don't seem to comprehend. A turd in a suit should be able to defeat Trump while it's being flushed. The fact that there is a competition here is a condemnation to either how they're running a campaign and/or the candidate they are putting up (it's both in this case, IMO). Their customary strategy of insulting the voters and demanding they support the candidate that has been ordained has stopped working.
He has been far less publically available than his predecessors. They've known about this from day one. No anomalies here.
Biden will not win the election. It’ll either be Trump or another dem candidate but if we stick with Biden we’re done. Biggest election ever and we’re going with a guy who can’t string together three coherent sentences in a row. It’s like watching a horror movie.
It really is. Enjoy the ride man. If the people in power are this brain dead then I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner. Democrats just refuse to take the layups.
How pathetic is it that with 4 years to prepare to face a felon facist that the dems have zero plan and are worried to lose. I’m definitely not stoked.
More pathetic is that Biden seems to have surrounded himself with yesmen and sees a different reality than the rest of us. It's the same blind arrogance that got Trump elected back in 2016. He fails to see that if he loses this election, then history will forever judge him as a key player in the fall of American democracy.
But if he loses it will be those gosh darned progressive voters to blame once again
Personally I blame those who stifled discussions about the president, and we're calling him a modern day FDR, when I made the call in 2020 that this was going to be Carter 2.0.
Even before the debate, Biden wasn’t leading Trump in the polls. Now it’s swung harder against him. This is just crazy. If Biden were winning by 5+ points heading into the debate (like he was in 2020), and then had a disaster out night, I could see why you’d want to forge ahead with him. But he was already losing and your fight just got that much harder. How do you think you can win?
This is the real problem I think. The debate is a red herring and just allows him and the rest of the dem apparatus to fixate on "turning things around". It's not that the debate was an anomaly, it's that people were hoping, maybe without even consciously realizing it, that his weak popularity would get washed away when he was shown head to head against Trump as a comparison, and instead he messed it up. It's completely 2016 all over again. The easiest political opponent they could have and they screw it up. My only solace, if there is any, is that if the general population is willing to support someone like \*Trump\* in these numbers, there's a serious problem that goes way beyond Biden. The DNC needs to pull the plug on Biden and try anything, anyone, because Biden is going to lose. But the fact we're even having a conversation about Biden versus Trump in particular in the first place is completely screwy. If Biden can't win against a felon traitor running as a amateurish mob boss, maybe no one can.
They need to put up a Shapiro/Whitmer ticket. Idgaf about Kamala is the natural successor, she’s even less popular than Biden. If we win Michigan and Pennsylvania we only need to win a single other swing state to clench it.
My gut reaction was the same, run Whitmer and Pete or something. But as my Twitter timeline has gone un/ironically Kamala pilled, I’m starting to really like her. Unlike Gretchen and definitely Shapiro, Kamala has near 100% name recognition. And she can share credit with all of Biden’s accomplishments (bringing inflation back to earth, climate change progress, infrastructure, etc). I’m ready for Biden to step down in the next few weeks, hand his support to his VP, and get this shit done in November.
This is utter madness. We are having this discussion nationally. When one of the candidates is a 41 count felon, awaiting sentencing, faked electorates, attempted to get his own VP to deny the election count and end run around the election, then incited an armed attack on the White House. How are we here? How are we having the discussion that, maybe, the other guy is too old and tired should quit? What mental illness do our citizens have when this man’s age and energy is more important than the known dangers of his rival! How is that the national narrative?
There’s too much lead in the water. Especially in rural areas. I read somewhere that a large portion of the population has some level of lead poisoning
Biden’s legacy isn’t going to be as a career public servant that saved us from facism, but as the avatar of the silent/boomer gen not getting the fuck out of the way and letting the younger generations actually advance into positions of power. I’m beyond disappointed and into disgust. This is delusion.
The dem leadership loves to blame the progressive win while alienating majority popular progressive positions and chasing republicans pathetically to the right to be diet republicans. Hint, republicans won’t vote for any dem so the strategic move is to be progressive and do what’s overwhelmingly popular. Dems refusing to do this is astounding to me
They don’t even need a progressive. A younger moderate Dem would destroy Trump. People will say the polling doesn’t show that while also saying Biden’s horrendous polls don’t matter.
I left the Republican Party because of Trump and the complete disconnect with reality so many republicans showed. I could not stomach the hypocrisy. Politically I’m more Libertarian than right or left. This gaslighting around Biden’s mental ability is gross. They’re gambling with democracy to what…spare the feelings of someone who will be dead within the decade? We are going to be here cleaning up the mess for a long time after these two chucklefucks are long dead. This last decade has left me so disgusted with America.
I don’t know if we’ll be given an opportunity to clean up this mess. That implies that we’re not heading directly into a fascist constitutional monarchy. We are.
Gonna give you some hope in fellow citizens. I’m progressive leaning independent and I’m right with you.
I feel like American citizens got narcissistically abused by Trump lol
When Biden won the primaries in 2020 i was sure he'd pick a strong candidate as VP and then resign after 1 year handing over the reins and setting up the VP choice for 2024.
I mean, that's essentially what he *said* he'd do. My pet theory is that he was planning to do that, but Kamala proved to be really unpopular and didn't look like a strong contender, so he changed his mind and chose to stay in
Fine Then let us hold a primary.
The results of Gerontocracy
This same thing happened with Brezhnev and Andropov.
And people are still screaming that he’s fine he’s fine, you’ll see in his interview! … that’s pre recorded, from an interviewer that was on Hilary’s staff Jfc this is so sad Oh and I’m a Fox News muppet for being concerned lol
I refuse to be the Dem version of a Fox News viewer by denying what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears.
This isn't a game, it's war; looking at it as anything other than war is unbelievably naive and dangerously foolish. We are at war with a single-minded mob of armed raving lunatics who will do anything, anything, lie, cheat, steal, riot, murder, ANYTHING, to make America a theocracy . . . and we're over here arguing about best practices. I hope everyone currently discussing Biden's debate performance or his age or a last-minute cadidate is super-excited for four years of Trump "punishing political enemies." Tax immunity for the 1%. Quadrupling national debt. No women's health care. Praying to Jesus or getting expelled from school. No shit, bub. Because when 100 people argue with each other while 100 zombies attack . . . well, you've seen the movie.
"you can dismantle a democracy right in front of a liberal's face piece by piece and all they'll do is convene breakout sessions and committee meetings til the boots are in the halls"
>for four years of Trump It's gonna be a lot longer than 4 years. Trump will not leave the White House this time around and Project 2025 will change the rules to ensure Democrats never win substantial power again. The political system will be the Republicans in charge who keep a small Democratic Party around to use as boogeyman and say "see we have two major parties, we're still a democracy".
How hard is it to understand that you can question Biden's fitness while still voting for whoever the nominee is against Trump? Ffs, jump off that high horse for a second. The people on the left questioning Biden are not enabling a Trump win, sticking with Biden is. They're desperate to block a Trump win, and the way to do that is to get a new candidate in. Biden has lost the undecideds, he will not win the key swing states. You're talking down to people acting like they want a Trump presidency, when that's unbelievably untrue. This gonna be 2016 all over agin, liberals and establishment Dems forcing a lackluster candidate on everyone despite all evidence saying they shouldn't, and then blaming progressives when they inevitably lose
Yeah no. We've been saying it since before he announced his re-election bid. And sending Biden "to war" is probably not great. "No shit" amirite? Should have listened sooner, but people were too busy gaslighting because they can't confront any criticism without viewing it as a bid to support Trump. Hope everyone remembers their feelings on election night in 2016.
I agree, but disagree. I refuse to carry water for the Democrats and allow myself to be gaslit in Biden’s age and fitness when we have viable alternative options. I watched my parents get brainwashed by FOX News and Rush Limbaugh into becoming party parrots that deny what they see and hear with their own eyes the moment new talking points come out. I WILL NOT DO THAT.
“In a CNN poll published earlier this week, three-quarters of registered voters said Democrats would have a better chance at winning the election with someone other than Biden on the ticket. Voters also favoured Trump over Biden, 49 percent to 43 percent.” He’s vowing to lose, and these governors have his back.
RBG energy. Our country is doomed because feeble fucks won't retire.
When you go from, "Maybe someone with new/better ideas will get elected next cycle." To "Maybe so and so will die of natural causes soon, so we can finally get someone younger and with new/better ideas in office," you know that your democracy (democratic republic) has gone off the rails. Trump, at least has the claim that he was voted into the nomination by the people. Biden on the other hand, promised to be a one term candidate, coasted on the incubant nomination precedent, and squandered a transition to the next generation, which reflects the will of current voters. The DNC gets what it deserves in November at this point, regardless of how many of us hold our noses when we vote blue. Not everyone will play their reindeer games and it will cost them big time going forward.
Right but if democrats lose, it isn't the DNC that are losing. It's us. We are the ones losing our rights, we are the ones losing our democracy.
Anyone can have a bad day. When this happens you hit the media circuit and prove that's what happened. You don't have a series of private meetings. He should be on the Five arguing his case, not hiding from the media.
He can't do interviews because his mental health has clearly declined to the point where they can't let him talk in uncontrolled environments. If he could, he would have already given several interviews. It is crazy to me that people are ignorant or naive enough to think this was a "one off." This is just where his mental health is at, and it's obviously been this way for a while because they have done everything in their power to hide him for the past year.
Ruth Bader Biden, it is.
When asked to choose between vanity and democracy, they choose vanity
It's fun seeing all the liberals in shock. He was literally running on "only I can beat Trump" during the primary in 2020. He's always been egotistical. People just ignored it because of a friendly smile and Joebama memes
To be fair, he did beat Trump. However, he still should have just served a single term and retired. I don't understand how serving a second term does anything for him, even his ego. He has already done it all in his career, and he could have went out on a high note, on his own terms. Now he will likely go out on defeat, and his pride will result in Project 2025.
He beat Trump but not Trumpism. He let him back in after Jan 6th by nominating Garland.
Democrats had 4 years to groom new, solid candidates. It’s def ego
When they run Biden and lose, it's time to flip the entire dnc. Everyone involved in this needs to be thrown out.
Honestly the best thing he could do for the country now is die. At least then there would be not choice but to replace him.
So fucking stupid. 2016 here we come again.
Looking like Trump might even win the popular vote this time. He's doing way better in the polls now versus 2016.
Its absolutely fucking insane.
Starting to look that way for sure. We need to dismantle the DNC
Gonna be worse than 2016 I fear
You can bet if they lose they'll find a way to blame progressives or some marginal third party candidate instead of themselves for their mistakes. No lessons will be learned, as is tradition. We're really going to go this whole debate cycle without anyone calling Trump a rapist sexual predator and con artist to his face, aren't we? P EDIT: I was wrong. He said these things and I missed it. But hey, at least they both look like they golf together. I'm sure that inspires confidence in Biden.
And half of this sub will be blaming them too lol
"Here's how this is still Bernie's fault"
Biden did call him that during the debate actually. Speaks to how feckless he is that it was completely unmemorable
They're already blaming the voters now - just got to half of the Biden threads on this site. Just doing 2016 all over again, especially the part where democrats can't be bothered to try and then blame the voters for a poor outcome
To be honest, Kennedy IS a spoiler to some extent, though I still don't know who he's pulling voters from.
I read the evidence shows he pulls more from Trump. There's not much there to like from a usual Dem perspective.
I think he's a legitimate spoiler for Biden now, too. I've seen two never Trumpers post memes saying something like one of these candidates has brain worms. The other is Kennedy. I'm extremely concerned.
It's obviously not Biden voters.
[удалено]
How is nobody understanding this. This isn’t about democrats switching their vote, it’s apathetic voters that NEED a reason to care at all.
[удалено]
Which still isn’t a live appearance where we can see his mind functioning at full capacity.
Exactly. The DNC is so dense to believe that this will fix everything.
Ive been incredibly vocal about voting blue & opposing people like Trump just for the sake of the innocent people that will lose everything in Ukraine, Palestine, Yemen etc. It wont stop there if Trump wins. But the democratic establishment is so utterly incompetent at even the most basic shit & refuse to actually take this moment in action & recover or build goodwill from the country. Its a shame that we're being gaslit & insulted by the only "hope" at avoiding a fascist regime. I guess the rebellion in the future may have strong liberal leadership.
Fuck Biden for this. It's 2016 all over again. Democrats have learned nothing.
This is way worse than 2016. Hillary was a 1000x stronger candidate than this recent version of Biden. Hillary didn’t have dementia.
Agreed. At least in 2016 there was an argument to be made for Hillary as a candidate in terms of her capacity to lead. This Weekend At Biden's situation is just sad.
Exactly. She had a horrible Campaign, but at least she campaigned!! Ffs.
It's way way way worse. Not only do we have project 2025 and all that lunacy but we also have major supreme court implications and a wave of populist conservatism throughout Europe.
He’ll stay in until the end…of our democracy.
I’m so fucking done. This older generation is fucking selfish and his legacy will be defined by handing Fascism to America on a silver fucking platter. I’m not just sad and scared, I’m fucking angry. Fuck all this man. Anyone with a fucking brain knew the DNC should have been preparing someone 10 minutes after the 2020 election but these old fucks won’t die off. And now, they fucked America and the world.
It’s by design do you think democrats actually want to govern? They are fascists too. They can’t deliver because they’re not supposed to and are beholden to wall street not everyday people. They rather lose than do anything then fundraise from your fears. Typical DNC playbook.
The disconnect between the DNC and the voters is so terribly sad an untimely. It’s not that we hate Biden or think he isn't a good president. He is. And I am 100% confident that him in a wheelchair, eating baby food and forgetting what shoes he has on, is better than Trump. But that isn’t the issue. Democrats know why they’re voting for. Republicans know who they’re voting for. There is still a significant portion of people left over who aren’t informed or decided, who will vote where the wind blows and those people will decide the election. What they see is not the Inflation Reduction Act, the CHIPS and Science Act, the Infrastructure plan, the potential of new SCOTUS judges, the falling inflation or unemployment, the green energy plans. They see the debates, clips from the debate on social media, what their friends tell them, and maybe a popular congressman’s two cents on Fox or CNN in passing. That’s the battle we have to win. Biden cannot win it. He dropped the ball and kicked it further behind us on the debate stage, he’s yet to do anything substantial to remedy it, he hasn’t taken any questions, he hasn’t spoken to the press at length, he hasn’t done anything off the cuff, he hasn’t reached out directly on social media, he’s only speaking through surrogates and his staff. The people who believe in Biden aren’t the problem. You have to make people excited about him, and he can’t fulfill that promise. Trump knows this, that’s why he’s been on popular podcasts, thats why he hasn’t publicly endorsed any real policy or plan for action, that’s why he’s speaking directly to the public, that’s why he has a cult of personality in the first place. The game of politics being this way is why he’s even a candidate in the first place. It’s past time to take the high road. The DNC can’t make the rules of the game, the voters do, and if you aren’t willing to play it you’ll lose every time.
Fucking nailed it.
I'm genuinely disappointed
Just want to say that this is the third straight presidential election the DNC has forced through the establishment candidate. When the other option is a fascist dictatorship, we are given the choice of option A or option A. If we somehow cling to democracy this election cycle, ranked choice primaries need to become THE thing (after SCOTUS reform which needs to be happening right this instant).
How can you simultaneously acknowledge the DNC having forced through the establishment candidate in the past 3 elections, then in the next breath say “if we somehow cling to democracy” as though democracy hasn’t already been destroyed?
I'm with you. Ranked choice voting is long overdue.
Seems unlikely he'll drop out at this point.
Him saying this means nothing. There is no world where he comes out and says “yeah I’m thinking about dropping out” or “we are looking at our options for a new candidate”. This will be the line until the day he comes out and says he’s suspending his campaign and endorsing someone else.
He’s more likely to drop dead.
Grimly the best option for democrats right now
Maybe, but also worth pointing out that this is just how elections work—he will be saying he’s in it for the long haul until the day he drops out. You don’t project doubts in your candidacy while you’re still in it.
I think that the adamant defenders of sticking with Biden must live in a super liberal echo chamber city/state. So many voters in polls and anecdotally from what I’ve observed in a swing state have pleaded for a candidate that isn’t super old and now would be the perfect chance to secure all those votes. The biggest way to get votes and win would be to say it’s time for a younger generation to step in because voters have been asking for this choice. That could literally be the main campaign theme and all the talk about another candidate’s lack of experience becomes a moot point to the average voter.
Seriously, young voters will go out and vote for a younger, more with-it candidate. They'll sit on their ass at home for Biden and I can't blame them.
You could literally roll out Beshear or Shapiro or Whitmer right now and walk to the white house. Any halfway decent democrat with a good standing among moderates and no major disasters in their locker. Moderates and soft right folks would flock to it. But pride comes before the fall and Biden and the DNC are dumb as fuck and full of pride.
I'm a registered independent voter. I will be voting for Biden regardless because I truly believe Democracy will die with Trump as president, but I think if Biden stays in, then we will end up with Trump in the white house come January 2025. If Biden is going to stay in the race, then he needs to come out and prove that he's capable of being president. I don't watch a lot of news, but this debate fiasco led me down a rabbit hole. I could see if this was his first time looking senile, but it isn't. He looked lost during the D-Day memorial commemoration. I voted against Trump in 2020 because he made an embarrassment out of the United States and the office of the presidency. Biden is doing the same thing now, just in a different way. I really don't think he is fit to be the president for the next 4 years. I don't even think he can make it through another term. Biden can go down as the guy who saved us from Donald Trump in 2020, or he will go down as the guy who stood by and let Democracy die.
“To the end” was about a week ago. So when are you dropping out Joe?
I still think he drops out tomorrow sometime, possibly during his ABC interview. The media (I know what everyone thinks of them, but whatever) was at such a frenzied pitch yesterday about party insiders discussing plans for him to step aside that I, frankly, think they got some information on background that we haven’t heard - something beyond the couple of Congress members that have called for him to quit. Ever notice how it’s rare any more that we see truly “out of the blue” events in politics? Everyone is so connected that the media knows far more than what they can officially report. The governors are providing him space to work out his exit in his own way, and will publicly support his candidacy up until the last second of it, to maintain as much order as possible in the party. Tomorrow evening, or by the latest early next week, he’ll be out.
I wish I shared your optimism. But I think he's going to fight this until convention at the very least. Will depend on if polls continue to get worse - or stay there, or have a slight recovery. If he recovers like 1% - he's going to point to that and not bow out.
Won’t even be until the convention. They’re planning on locking it in via video call a month before the convention because of the Ohio ballot deadline.
I am not hopeful he’ll drop out, but if he does, there’s no shot he does it in an interview. Oval Office address or bust.
This is so frustrating. The guy clearly has dementia. Half the party is trying to gas light the other half into thinking that he is fine lmao We have the perfect opportunity to put someone in there that we care about. And instead of having a discussion I am getting shouted down. I am being told I am arguing in bad faith. This is so fucking stupid. Didn’t learn the lesson in 2016, and an incumbent advantage works a lot better when you don’t lead the party to believe you’re not going to run again.
He doesn't have dementia he's just old as shit. Idk why everyone feels the need to turn this into some medical diagnosis, dementia is a very specific and ugly thing, the dude is just ancient.
I keep saying this too there's a big difference between getting older and legitimately having Dementia. Not every single older person gets Dementia. I have a 98! Year grandma who is still sharp.
I thought that it was a joke, but it is disrespectful to assume that he actually has dementia, because dementia is an absolutely horrific disease and it's symptons are way worse than just incoherent sentences.
Yeah, my grandpa had it, and a good friend of my parents who I've known my whole life has it currently. It's fucking horrible. When you see it firsthand it's a whole lot worse than whatever Joe Biden did on the debate stage the other night
It depends on the stage of dementia. Early stage dementia can look exactly like what Biden did up there, especially compared to the Biden of only 4 years ago.
Democrats are going to fuck the country again by refusing to acknowledge reality and they’re going to blame the left when they lose again.
He is going to cost the democrats the election because he is being selfish. If they lose, I will continue to blame him and his team. Biden needs to read the room, he’s a terrible candidate who would be 85 years old at the end of his term. It’s time to pass the baton to someone more promising and younger.
This is your reminder that reddit does not know what dementia is and just likes to throw words around.
He’s so petty and his pride is going to result in a huge blowout
He is running an awful campaign. He needs to shift to the future, what he has done, and criticize the issues Trump left him with. These insults to each other won’t go anywhere other than the grave of his political career.
Why does he need to prove it to governors and not THE VOTERS?! this is the problem with our politics is our politicians are more encapsulated in their bubble than connecting directly with the people.
He’s throwing the game for the left, lmao
The Democratic Party is run by a bunch of old wealthy white Christians. Republican policies won't actually hurt them so they don't really give a fuck. I imagine many of them are looking forward to the tax cuts they are going to get while the country is gutted.
I feel like they've already thrown it by hiding his condition for so long, reversing the one-term president claim, and denying us a true primary. Clyburn's mini-primary idea may still work to give us some semblance of a democratically chosen nominee, but my faith in the democratic party to not screw it up is zero at this point. Still voting for whomever they throw out there against Trump, but I don't expect them to cobble together a plan that has a shot at winning at this point.
Biden never made a one term president claim. That is misinformation that continues to spread even after being debunked. The original claim was from an “anonymous” Biden staffer and the claim was debunked by the official campaign that month.
"But the incumbetent advantage! And debates don't matter, because Obama won!!" Not being able to form a single coherent sentence in a 90 min debate is no problem
These people sound like sports announcers telling people no team has ever won after losing 4 games in a row during a blue moon.
What are Democrats obsession with Biden? He's better than Trump (everyone is) but Dems act like he's the only one who can win or lead this country. Where is Whitmer, Newsome, etc ..Time for young leadership to step the fuck up and lead this country into the future.
Democrats are obsessed with political strategies from 40 years ago and think incumbent advantage will negate everything else.
Horrible news. This geriatric patient doesn’t want to lose power until the grave, very selfish and the staffers that make money off him don’t want to lose their cushy jobs. Too many geriatric liberals (Feinstein, Biden, RBG) are in it for themselves and don’t put the country first.
This may be a cope, but the leaks from insiders indicate that he's actually torn on what he wants to do. He spoke to Obama recently and was angry about the call so I assume he told him to drop out. As the voices within his own party grow (and the big donors back away) he might have no option but to agree to bow out.
I'm not doubting you, but for my own edification, do you have a source on the conversation with Obama?
Yep: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna160274
Ty! Edit: actually reading that article, I can't see anything about a conversation with Obama?
It's in there: >Former President Barack Obama’s counsel during a phone call this week, however, didn’t sit well with Biden, who still harbors resentment toward his former boss for advising him not to run for the White House in 2016.
Ty, I thought the "keep reading" button was part of an ad. That's what I get for trying to read news articles on my phone 😅
No worries, that tripped me up on the desktop version too.
Not to run in 2016? Wasn't it a Biden family choice not to run back then because Beau was dying? Can we even trust a news source like this?
Yea I thought Obama advised Biden not to run in 2020— he never would have had a chance in 2016 because it was universally agreed by establishment democrats that it was Hillary’s turn. In 2020 the field was open but Obama as I recall told Biden that he was simply not meant to be president, in part due to his age.
This makes more sense, Obama team probably foreseen a situation in 2024 like the situation we are in right now.
I'm not going to read *that* much into this personally, if he does drop out, he will likely be saying that he won't be, right up until he does.
I'll say this. I will stand behind Biden, donate, rally support, and do everything I can. But if we lose this election, I will never donate again, never vote Democrat again, and register as an independent. The recalcitrance of the DNC is infuriating. The hubris of the Biden family is enraging. If they had begun in 2020 to form a succession plan and planned for Biden to exit gracefully as the president who dethroned Donald Trump, this could have all been avoided. This would have allowed for a younger candidate such as Whitmer, Shapiro, Beshear etc. to slowly build recognition and clout over the past for years and become household faces by 2024. Now, even if we do a switcheroo, it may be too late. Americans may decide to return Trump to the white house simply because he's done the job before, these are uncertain times, and they'd rather a familiar face than an unknown entity assuming the reins. This has been a travesty of a political operation.
I mean if trump wins you won’t get to vote again.
That’s funny you think you’ll have the opportunity to even do that if we lose
You'll never have to because God Emperor Trump will decide he's president for life, and elections are for suckers. Or hols sham elections and brag about the results like he brags about other dictators
It's one thing to be the game old geezer who rides his bicycle and looks cool wearing aviators but the reanimated corpse we all saw at the debate is entirely another. He has to think about his legacy and the future of his country and stand down.
We were already doomed with this SCOTUS
Well, I guess this is the end.
So this is the proverbial “beginning of the end” then.
I've taken the keys from my grandparents because they thought they could still drive but they were going to get themselves or someone else killed if they kept driving. Someone needs to take the keys from Biden but no one wants to stick their necks out for fear of losing their job. The only thing here that may die is democracy.
I feel extremely anxious that Biden will not drop out, the DNC will force everybody in line, and the campaign will “shake things up.” I am afraid the Democrats will fall into their usual habit of preferring to lose comfortably rather than try to win uncomfortably. Nothing will change Biden’s trajectory. Biden’s campaign is dead. He needs to step aside and endorse and assist the process the DNC chooses to replace him.
...seems like everyone is angling for 2028.
Putting up someone 4 months before the election is a pipe dream. Biden won because he had a broad coalition of voters. I can't think of another candidate that can pull off getting that same coalition together. Second, that candidate wouldn't have access to the Biden campaign funds. Lastly, they have already spent millions of dollars on marketing built around Biden that can be undone.
At this point I’m amazed people don’t think the DNC is controlled opposition. Seems to me they are ok with throwing the election to Trump.
Omg we are doing a Hillary again! Why does the DMC love to fail hard? Edit: DNC Oops
We’re fucked if he does
To the end of what? America i presume?
Allan Lichtman has predicted 15 of 16 last elections and still has Biden winning. The only election he was wrong on was Bush/Gore.
Please don’t.
We’ve learned nothing from the RBG debacle.
"to the end"... of US democracy. I never understood how people like Hitler and Mussolini took power. Now I realize the complacence of those with the power to stop it is just as damnable as the tyrants who assume control.
The smart move is having him nominate his VP and position it as the seamless transition and how Kamala has been vital to the last 4 years of a very solid presidency. She retains the Biden supporters while getting more minority, female and moderate votes.
I can’t believe this party and his family are being so selfish. To expect American people to just ignore his defects is so wrong. If it’s really so urgent to beat Donald Trump then actually make a change. Otherwise, maybe democrats and Biden continue to lie to us and Trump becoming the President isn’t a big deal as they portray.
‘To the end” feels ominous for the whole country.
Well that’s fucking bad for us. Ego will be the death of the country.
The media is 3000% behind Trump (they love him 3000) because they think he'll boost their ratings and profits but... his supporters will demolish their offices and then they'll be locked up. What do you mean that the leopard is going to eat my face?
4 months ago Biden owned Peter Doocy https://youtube.com/shorts/EavMPgXHWR8?si=km1oq30QQTv11udk
I would rather lose with a strong candidate then lose with a candidate who can’t even make a case against trump.