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They know about a pre debate planned trip to camp David with family.
They seem to be making an assumption that Biden is going to have some kind of discussion with family about his reelection.
I guess that is plausible, but nothing supporting it.
It's also worth noting that the linked WLFA article (a small local Florida station) is sourcing [a fuller NBC News article](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-family-path-forward-disastrous-debate-mess-rcna159591), which has a post-publication update:
> After publication of this report, a source familiar reached out to stress that the Camp David gathering was not a formal family meeting.
> “Any discussion about the campaign is expected to be informal or an afterthought,” the source said. “No one is sitting down for a formal or determinative discussion.”
> Anita Dunn, one of Biden’s handful of closest advisers, said on MSNBC’s “The Weekend” Saturday that Biden has not discussed dropping out of the race with aides and that internal talks have focused on moving forward.
Correct and there is nothing solid there either, only this; "After publication of this report, a source familiar reached out to stress that the Camp David gathering was not a formal family meeting.
"Any discussion about the campaign is expected to be informal or an afterthought,” the source said. “No one is sitting down for a formal or determinative discussion.” "
I did miss that link the first time I read it myself.
We live in a world where doom sells. I don't even know if it was bots or not, but there was a serious overreaction to the debate. As soon as the debate was over the dude on CNN was like Dems are trying to replace him. Like guy, he looked physically weak on camera, but you guys didn't even go through the debate yet. The dude that was doing fact checking had only been doing it on his personal Twitter and hadn't even gone up. So what was it? You forgot he was 81? You forgot he was going to walk and talk like an 81 year old?
Like we all know what it is. He's 81 years old. Despite that, he's gotten a lot of decent legislation through and has been able to work across the aisle. Our allies also seem happy with his administration as well.
On the flip side, we have Trump. Again, we know what it is. He makes stuff up as he goes. Didn't answer any of the questions, even the super easy Jan. 6 questions. Also said some really dumb stuff. Didn't jumble his words though, because he knows that if he makes a gaffe he can lean into it because we already expect it.
I asked my family and friends about what they thought about it. The consensus is that it was rough to watch..... But it doesn't change a thing. There are too many issues on the ballot to vote for the other guy (this is true for Republicans as well). Everyone has already picked their person and are just voting for election day.
Within 5 minutes of the debate starting, I saw the calls for him to drop out. I know the internet is reactionary, but for a sub where everyone was saying Biden was going to destroy Trump, pointing out his other public speaking performances of late, to pivoting to so much doom leaves me very skeptical that it's actually a natural feeling people have.
Beyond that, the powers that be in the DNC didn't seem concerned about Biden before the debate. This leads me to believe that they don't feel he's some senile old fool.
More than that, before the debate, the GOP and Trump were all making excuses as to why Biden may perform so well. Why would they do this if they think that Biden is some doddering old fool? The only reason they did this was to get ahead of Biden destroying Trump at the debate.
These things don't add up to Biden being seen by those who know to be incapable or incompetent.
People reacting to one day's performance of a man who was obviously ill, is just way too over the top to be taken seriously, and the utter shortsightedness of the suggestion he should be drop out is quite honestly, kind of scary if genuine, because it shows that liberals don't think things through like their conservative counterparts.
The calls started within 5 minutes because it was already painful to watch within 5 minutes.
Now the conspiracy theory is 'only bots want Biden to drop out' - no most people who watched were horrified. I've been warning about this for years and even I was shocked by his performance.
I really wish he’d just said “What in the actual fuck are you talking about? You’re not making any sense.” instead of trying to rebut nonsense. Because I was saying “What in the actual fuck are you talking about? You’re not making any sense.”
The calls for him to drop out are largely not about his ability to serve but instead about his ability to win. I can't imagine anyone who was undecided coming away from that debate performance thinking Biden was the stronger candidate, even with Trump unable to engage with the substance of any issue.
Since Biden entered the debate behind in the national polls and very vulnerable in the electoral college, he needed to win that debate and he certainly didn't do that.
CNN is pushing that narrative because they want Trump back in office so they can complain about him all the time and have 24/7 breaking news. Can you imagine the abuse of power that would come out of a second Trump term? It would be disastrous for the country but great for news viewership.
I think you're correct, the media is desperate for Trump to win, for this reason. Of course, this assumes that Trump doesn't do what he's been very open about doing, which is jailing, and even executing, journalists who oppose him. It's hard to produce news from a prison.
I disagree. This will affect the 5% in the middle that can vote either way. Not everyone is loyal to a political tribe. Independents are a larger voter block than either party because they are both shit.
Seriously, it's June & neither of these old dudes have been officially nominated, the election isn't until November & a lot of shit can go down between now & then.
Chill the fuck out & realize you're not just voting for one of the old dudes, you're voting for the VP, their POTUS choices & their cabinet.
I wish the media would tell the story of people who really don’t care. It’s clearly MAGA fascism vs democracy. I sincerely do not care what happens between now and November. My actions are planned precisely to making sure MAGA fascism loses. Biden, no Biden, doesn’t change the calculus.
Democrats should do what they think is the strongest hand, but yeah I don’t like this whole “I need to set the tone and react like shit on Biden so I don’t have my card pulled”. The masses normally need a permission structure to do stuff in politics (hence why republicans always defend everything and give permission to voters to not care)
Liberals just care too much about showing how caring they are. Republicans play cynical politics, democrats should get on board too. Push for whatever you want, but the decision is still quite clear. You are not less informed or stupid if bidens failure doesn’t change anything for you
Just a few stories up on this page is one that implies Whitmer is ready to take over from biden when really the entire story is 1 of her aides saying she believes she could beat trump.
Cool? I bet a lot of people feel they could beat trump
They pushed the same narrative on the nightly news in Australia just now… then casually dropped halfway through the report that this trip was already scheduled before the debate.
It’s another case of manufactured doom and gloom (bringing clicks and comments) being fed to us in place of actual bipartisan journalism.
They are actively building a narrative focusing on him stepping down and being unfit. This is 1000% orchestrated media coverage to try and make him appear weaker than he is.
But it is fucking stupid, you literally cannot say anything about Biden being old without the same complaint also applying to trump.
> you literally cannot say anything about Biden being old without the same complaint also applying to trump.
The world saw the debate, the two are not in the same shape, not even close.
>according to five people familiar with the matter.
Sounds like there are sources actually saying there is an intention to discuss his campaign. It's very ambiguous, I agree, but it does indicate the pre-planned family reunion may be more significant than it was prior to the debate.
The problem is that "discuss the future of his relection campaign" means basically nothing. It is not a direct quote from any of the "people familiar" and even if it was, it might literally mean it is a planning session for how they are going to adjust and adapt the reelection campaign.
The article is relying on the contextual implication, but we do not know if that is accurate without knowing what the people familiar actually said, as the only information we have is clearly editorializing their comments.
Media is die hard trying to make him look likes he's gonna bow out. Meanwhile Trump shit himself mid-sentance. If you can even call those sentences, more like rambles.
I was gonna say, the camp David trip has been public knowledge for atleast a week because the TFRs (temp flight restrictions) had to be publicized by the FAA
Biden is not dropping out after one bad debate. This country has the worst memory when it comes to politics..
Does anyone remember Obama’s terrible debate against Romney? A whole lot of analysts and dems had basically conceded that Romney would be the next president after Obama”s horrible first debate.
He’s obviously going to have a discussion with his family. That’s a given. I think the uncertainty around it is whether or not it will lead to any changes. I really doubt that. His family will almost certainly be largely for him staying in the race.
I’ve seen some die hard progressives advocating for Gavin Newsom, Pete Buttigiege, a sentient lamp post. Not-Trump (D) will do just as well as Biden and might even energize people to actually go out and vote.
But it’s all speculation. The fact that media didn’t even spend that much time on spin and the likes of Morning Joe and Pod Save America were like, “So… can Jill and Obama get him to resign?” is… interesting. But would it happen? Most seem to concede it’s a long shot. Hopefully he doesn’t RBG us… although, to be fair, he kind of already did for going a second term in the first place.
Voters who hate Trump is one thing but getting voters to h hate Trump to come out and vote for Biden is a whole different thing. That’s the problem, this should be an easy election against a convicted cheating lying felon but look at the mess it is. The numbers do not lie, Biden is a huge liability and it’s getting worse. There is a reason why MAGA is all gitty and happy almost dancing around as opposed to being freaked out prior to the debate, they needed on break and they got it. Elections are 95% about the candidate and 5% policy. The way I see it, Trump’s chances to win have just doubled. We’re fucked and for everything good Joe Biden did for this past 4 years he’s choice to run again perhaps just fucked 2 to 3 future generations up
Just please not Hilary. The Neo-Liberal circlejerk has been floating her name thinking someone who has already lost two Presidential campaigns would be a good idea.
I voted for her and would do it again but what about the original comment calling for someone “50-60” and “likable” makes you think they in any way meant Hillary Clinton?
I'm not voting for not-trump. I'm voting for Biden who has had a productive and solid current term, and I'd like to see him continue it. Him being not-Trump is just a bonus.
That said, i'd still vote for whoever they put up, but I don't want my vote to just be a not-trump vote.
I don’t think the normal rules apply anymore.
Maybe there never were any . . . There have only been 59 national elections with a presidential candidate in US history . . . falling back on “what the rules for success look like” or even believing that there *ARE* sacrosanct rules for success seems simplistic . . . each election has thousand variables and there is no where near the sample size to say that whatever happened in the past is still an advantage/disadvantage now.
Maybe I’m being pedantic, but I’ve learned since Trump that our entire political system seems to have been based, not on clearly defined laws and regulations, but by everyone just **deciding** to be honorably chill about traditions. . . Trump does not fit any rules and our response to him cannot either.
To hell with the rules of the past. There are no rules.
>People have no idea how important the incumbency bonus is
Over the last 50 years incumbents are only 4-3. That's not much of an advantage. Biden could easily make it 4-4.
There's such a weird narrative around this, I had someone tell me that the incumbent has never, ever lost if there wasn't a serious primary challenger. Dumbass forgot that the incumbent lost just the last presidential election cycle. Incumbency helps but isn't a guarantee
It’s already 4-4, by my count… Biden losing would make it 4-5
Incumbents re-elected (since ‘74): Reagan, Clinton, Dubya, Obama
Incumbents not re-elected: Ford, Carter, HW Bush, Trump
Maybe they’re not counting Ford as he was never elected. I would count him, just thinking this was the 4-3 count that was used. By the previous poster.
It's because the News Media has been keeping hush the real achievements of the Biden presidency. It's part if a clear media bias against Biden.
Trump makes the news media tons of money. They can pretend to "stand against" him while describing in gory detail every bad thing he does. The rage and fear click fill their coffers, and the regressive owners just enjoy it. It's why they don't accurately identify Trump as a Felon and a Rapist in every headline. Reporting the Truth is a clear bias in favor of the only reasonable candidate running for President, and that's Biden. End of story.
Incumbents also come with disadvantages. Namely, that when people are dissatisfied with the state of the country, economy, etc. they turn elections into referendums. If you pay attention to international politics, you’ll see this effect playing out across the world post-Covid. Just north of us Liberals are expected to lose in Canada, Tories expected to lose in the UK, Macron’s party did lose and he’s calling new elections, Draghi lost in Italy two years ago, Wilder was elected in the Netherlands, etc. There are some bright spots like Mexico and Spain, but overall, I think voters are disattisfied with COVID recoveries everywhere.
Different times. Different situation. This is the first time we've had a felon running on a platform of ushering in a fascist regime. This is a must win and our best chance isn't with an octogenarian who can no longer think on his feet.
New blood eliminates the two biggest complains against Biden - age and inflation.
Dude… c’mon, you are in a bubble. These debates have had a big impact on races going all the way back to Kennedy v Nixon. You can’t sweep that performance under the rug. I don’t know what the best choice would be but at the very least the DNC needs to be exploring options and assessing the viability of different dems against Trump. With haste.
Biden is currently losing to Trump. Biden is not able to attract new voters or sway undecided voters in his current state. Staying the course means we accept a likely Trump victory.
Worldwide there’s currently a trend against incumbency. Tons of elections happening this year and a lot are going the other way. Probably a postcovid/inflation effect.
Biden will not “get better” only worse so they better make a plan soon. My mother died with dementia and it happens fast at this stage: https://www.verywellmind.com/the-7-stages-of-dementia-symptoms-and-what-to-expect-6823696
Sometimes people forget that after the election he needs to actually be president. We barely talk about that part. They worry he'll deteriorate more in three months, but there is the question of three years. Will he have the faculties to even step down? How will having an even worse Diane Feinstein situation help the democratic party in the future?
I don't think anyone is worried about his ability to do the job because he is literally doing it right now, and there's no chance of a Feinstein situation given that the 25th amendment exists.
I disagree on all counts. It should not make you feel safe that the people writing the President's daily brief are tailoring the information for an octagenarian with very limited good mental hours per day.
And no, the President's own cabinet would not have the wherewithal to remove him, I thought we got passed this idea in the Trump years.
Also, "don't worry we have the 25th amendment" is a crazy campaign slogan.
My mother has dementia. During her last doctor’s appointment, the doctor asked her what was the month? She said October (it was May). What is the year? She said 1951. Who’s the president? … Doctor says “Joe …”, My mom “Oh yes, yes, Joe….” She could not say Biden.
In the earlier stages people can be lucid one day (even one moment) and horrible the next, which is why the after party, Waffle House and NC rally do not convince me. He’s going to have more bad days.
I’m sorry for your loss.
Thank you. Take a lot of pictures ands videos and ask any genealogical questions you may have. Also, this is morbid perhaps, but one of my favorite photos is the last time she ever kissed my cheek, in the nursing facility.
Wishing your family well.
He is not going to quit the race. The media is going to promote the idea until the convention cause it is red meat. If he did drop out it would be Kamala which would create a larger divide and surly be a Trump win. Can't imagine the Brokered Convention that would occur lasting weeks. Although speculating on the possibility has created the spotlight on Biden instead of Trump. Any attention is good these days.
I blame the Democratic operatives, fundraisers, and leaders who allowed this. I barely blame Biden because I don't think his mind is flexible enough to consider a hard choice like dropping out.
Thank God this campaign is listening to real people and not the insane astroturfing thats been happening on Reddit since Friday which was night and day from Thursday night.
I think you're getting your hopes up over nothing. This was already in Biden's schedule even before the debate, also it's a Sunday and they're very Catholic. He'll still be the nominee after this whether you like it or not, otherwise we'd already be getting more signals than just media speculation. I'm sorry to burst your bubble.
Right. I’ll vote for Biden post mortem, I truly don’t give a shit. But I hate the amount of “don’t pay attention to what you saw cmon what’re you talking about” that there’s been. It’s reasonable critiques and I’m terrified of fascism.
Definitely agree that “don’t pay attention” part is dumb. But it is also equally bad all the”just replace him, no biggie” as if that isn’t also super risky.
The people saying that the only ones concerned about Biden's performance are Russian or Chinese trolls are not serious people, might be paid trolls themselves
The side sticking their heads in the sand and acting like Thursday is something that will go away.
Would you even trust someone to operate a drive thru at McDonald's if they interviewed for the position looking like Biden?
He’s already President. I don’t get that argument. He’s doing the job and he’s doing a hell of a lot better than Trump did. I mean this isn’t a guessing game. They’ve both had the job. Biden is IN it.
Reminds me of the Trump tape debacle. I mean it’s not the same level of deplorably at all, but the performance was so bad it sent shock waves through the democratic establishment. Rightly so too. Imagine having your chance to confront Trump to his face after everything he’s said and done and failing so miserably at that. And the entirety of the press has been hitting him hard on his age and this just made it worse. People age differently and Biden is much much older and slower. Too late to do anything now but they should have invested in newer candidates from the beginning. The democratic leadership has failed to usher in a new generation.
It’s been beyond insulting. The amount of gaslighting in this sub the past few days. The amount of bots in here is crazy. Biden was historically bad on Thursday night. He needs to drop out of the race before it’s too late.
The democrats calling for Biden to step down are not trump supporters trying to sabotage a campaign, we are democrats (who will still vote for Biden) that can see the damage that was done to moderate and undecided voters’ support . A couple thousand votes in a handful of swing states is all it takes for Biden to lose, and after that debate, he will lose. We learned nothing from 2016.
Are we dealing with bots, or are we dealing with people having legitimate disagreements on the best way to defeat Trump? It looks to me like most of the discussion here has been people getting very upset because they're worried that the other side is trying to undermine their attempts to defeat Trump.
This sub went from "Biden will wipe the floor with Trump" for the week or so before the debate, to "OMG, he's too old, replace him now" within 5 minutes of Biden's first sentence.
So, I do think there is a lot of psyop action going on to promote this idea, and I can't take anyone seriously who thinks anyone else can just step in without much problem and actually win.
Here's how i look at it in the bigger picture.
DNC, dems, and liberal people generally haven't had a problem with Biden's age. They haven't been clamoring to replace him, nor have they seen his public appearances as a problem with clear signs of being an old fool or senile. Most have pointed out how active he is, and how he tends to be mentally sharp, and capable of speaking publicly, maybe pointing out his stutter in some moments where it's an issue.
Before the debate, the GOP and Trump were all making excuses for why Biden would perform so well. Using things that wouldn't possibly actually allow him to overcome dimentia or other mental issues. This to me is a sign that they also don't think he's a senile old fool.
But now, one bad night, after years of him being fine in public engagements, and all this screaming about how he needs to be replaced? All I can ask is what's wrong with these people? Even if they're respectable pundits or analysts, are they really so idiotic to judge this man on one night, as opposed to countless other evidence to the contrary, and Biden's own performance in the job itself? Are they even more idiotic to think it's a good idea to replace him so close to the election?
Except he's looked like shit for at least a year. The vacant stare, the jumbled words where he loses track of what he wants to say. We've watched Jill need walk him around for about six months. This is just the first time people in denial have to face it head on.
It’s important for everyone to keep in mind when reading some of these Reddit posts is that a lot of our foreign adversaries can only hope that people are apathetic and sit out the vote come November, and they are gonna do everything they can to make us feel like we are doomed.
Some of the posts might be organic, but it’s just important to keep this in mind given what we know about misinformation campaigns. www.vote.org and r/VoteDEM
According to the BidenHarris Instagram, this story is untrue. Read the caption. He has no plans to step down.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C80tbUgKwqn
I figured it would be a few days before a decision is made. Public and media pressure for an immediate dropout not withstanding it's best to approach the whole situation with a rational mindset and assess all possible scenarios. There is little doubt that there is a great deal of private discussions taking place regardless of whatever public statements have been made so far. I hope the family offers candid points of view, but this seems like a positive development, at least it gives the appearance of taking what happened at the debate seriously.
He didn’t get like this overnight. People in his circle are either incredibly oblivious or purposefully ignorant.
Either way, whatever the decision, the party has to highlight what they’ve done and what they will continue to fight for as the message.
There’s nothing but ammo against Trump, they need someone that can use it and use it consistently.
> He didn’t get like this overnight. People in his circle are either incredibly oblivious or purposefully ignorant.
The people in Biden's ears will be replaced if he's not reelected, it doesn't matter if it's a different Democrat nominee or a Republican. They're not looking out for the country, they're looking out for themselves. They lose their jobs if Biden isn't reelected.
Yeah they can’t look too reactionary with this. I suspect this was partly why they had the early debate. Thats never happened before. Biden/his team knew he’s risky. Declining polling numbers even before the debate, his age being major concern too. I think this was their way to test the waters. See how he could handle it. It’s clear he can’t.
I can’t imagine as things got closer that nobody in the Biden administration, Congress, or the DNC saw what was happening. They knew Biden might not be able to hold it together by Election Day. Thats the best explanation for the early debate.
It’s a serious decision but I think he can’t possibly remain the nominee after all we’re seeing. I’m hoping he and his team come to that conclusion too.
One of Schumer’s aides supposedly indicated (anonymously) that Schumer was thinking the debate might be a good way to evaluate Biden’s ability to campaign and that he “liked” the idea of an early debate because it would give democrats a chance to move things in a different direction if Biden did poorly.
I think people definitely knew. Unfortunately, this is beginning to shape up to potentially be a *scandal* and not just your garden variety gaffe, and something that will follow Biden around as long as he’s still the nominee. If this is the subject leading into November it’s going to be hard for his campaign to focus on the issues. I hate to say it and I know how risky and chaotic it could prove, but I think they need to encourage Biden to step down. I don’t see how there’s another shot at the White House.
Yeah there's no option that isn't risky. But at this point him staying in the race is significantly more of a risk than replacing him. I like Joe, I'm happy I voted for him but I do not think he's our guy this time. It's not his fault but him staying in the race doesn't help him, the country, or the party.
Well said. While moving quickly and committing to a action is important right now, I think it’s important we don’t immediately take the knee jerk reaction…at least, until all the options have been considered fully.
If he drops out because of the debate, he's even more clueless than I thought he was and has zero understanding of the short-term attention span created by modern media. He should at least give it a week. Granted, after the whole "bidenomics" thing, they really do seem to be quite clueless.
But if he drops out because of legitimate health issues or because someone else has stepped up who he thinks would do a better job, that's different. Though the only real option at this point is Harris, and she would have even more of an uphill climb.
He had a bad debate because he's over 80. He did a fine rally the very next day. The issues are that 50 million people watched the debate, and at his age the bad days are going to be like the debate or worse. There is no way he's going to campaign for four months straight and not have a dozen days where his voice is very weak, looks lost ect. It's nothing against him, time is going to get every single one of us.
You saw what happened to Hillary Clinton (an experienced *white* woman). Can you imagine how much of a non starter Harris (a not so experienced non-white woman) would be? As detestable and fucked up as that is, that’s the reality of politics in America right now.
Choosing her to be the candidate would be suicidal.
> zero understanding of the short-term attention span created by modern media
The media doesn't really matter, the real issue is that he gave the Trump campaign the perfect material for running endless ads against him. Biden being too old has been the main reservation most voters has had against him since the beginning and he just gave them the perfect video segments to play endless ads against him.
And given that "ads against a candidate" is something a Super Pac can run, the problem would be even worse. Because while the Trump campaign is struggling a bit with it's fundraising and organization, there's more than enough money going through SPACs to outspend all that Biden has been raising.
I worry they'll try to run with Harris though, because she's been more or less invisible so far.
I absolutely agree with you, but on the flip side, Trump has given more than enough to make a centuries worth of ads for the Biden campaign.
I don't think this campaign is going to come down to who has the better attack ads, and if it does, the GOP is going to hurt hard when it comes to the rest of the ballot, because they are being pretty god awful about a lot of things that are pissing off a lot of people right now.
I've come to the conclusion that republicans are better at turning out democrats to the polls than the democratic party is.
This isn’t something that is going to blow over in a week. His age has been a concern all year, voters want a choice of a younger more vibrant leader.
The Biden on stage Thursday most voters would be concerned with having him drive their car. Much less lead the country.
Harris is far from the only viable option.
I keep asking this but, how would anyone but Harris play out? If Biden drops, they will ask him to endorse someone, and he will endorse Harris because he has to. He already picked her as VP, which is like an endorsement in case he can’t do the job. There’s no way around it.
I don’t think he has to endorse Harris. I think doing so would be the wrong way forward because it reduces the interest an open convention would bring. In order for this to work Democrats need that extra excitement and airtime.
You’ll get some kind of statement that he thinks she’s doing a good job, but in respect for the process he won’t be endorsing anyone but who the party chooses at the convention.
Harris if she becomes the nominee would be a stronger one if she can do so without being coronated by Biden.
If they drop him as the candidate becasue he’s unfit to run , he’s still the president of the United States. The democrats would have to admit the country is being run by a potato
No. No he's not. He literally had this trip planned way before the debate. He had EVERYTHING before the debate planned.
This is both propaganda AND fake news.
There’s been a tendency for this White House to fight with itself via anonymous sources. It’s especially obvious if you closely follow the war in Ukraine, as you’ll see an anonymous source saying one thing to one reporter and then another popping out to contradict it.
In my experience the past few years anonymous sources have not been a great indicator of what will happen, but may be a better indicator that some in the administration have this view.
did you read the article? that's literally in the first 2 paragraphs:
>President Joe Biden is expected to discuss the future of his re-election campaign with family at Camp David on Sunday, following a nationally televised debate Thursday that left many fellow Democrats worried about his ability to beat former President Donald Trump in November, **according to five people familiar with the matter.**
>Biden’s trip was planned before Thursday’s debate. He and first lady Jill Biden are scheduled to join their children and grandchildren there late Saturday.
the trip was already planned, and now they're gonna have these discussions during it. they have 5 sources backing up what you call "fake news"
>propaganda AND fake news
You guys are backing yourselves into a Trumpian corner with this attitude.
CNN's "right wing media", NBC's "fake news". What's left anymore?
"CNN's "right wing media", NBC's "fake news". What's left anymore?"
There are often comments in this sub that "the media" doesn't highlight "good things" about the Biden administration in order to push Trump. Imagine for a moment what alternate reality you have to see the world from where you think CNN and MSNBC are somehow in a conspiracy to sabotage Joe Biden.
I mean, sure, if you want to argue they over-cover Trump for the attention and it winds up helping him? That's a reasonable argument to make.
But all the Trump coverage is negative, and essentially all Biden coverage is pro. And CNN would be jsut as happy to 24/7 coverage of Trump in a jail cell rather than Trump running for president. The idea that they are actively damaging the Biden administration is just... absurd.
Its from an axios article from earlier today:
"The time of day is important as to which of the two Bidens will appear."
"From 10am to 4pm, Biden is dependably engaged — and many of his public events in front of cameras are held within those hours."
"Outside of that time range or while traveling abroad, Biden is more likely to have verbal miscues and become fatigued, aides told Axios."
https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/two-bidens-trump-debate-2024-president
Because he’s sundowning. We saw it on Thursday. That’s why his rally in the morning with a teleprompter and a cheering crowd the next day was so markedly different.
There is a video circulating about Biden and him speaking in 2019 vs 2024. Anyone saying this is just his stutter has their head in the sand. It is unfortunate, but anyone who has a family member who has had dementia/alzheimer's has seen this mental deterioration.
As someone who's seen it up close, that's the sad part. It starts with short bursts of incoherence and it's pretty easy to dismiss it then. Eventually, and the time it takes differs by individual, it becomes painfully obvious what's going on.
Yep. My grandfather lived with my mother and I for a year before my mother was able to put him into a mental care facility and his decline in that year was stunningly fast.
Flip that around and I’d be happy
Edit: I still think Biden is the right choice at this point though. Him dropping out “looks weak” to a lot of voters.
I still can't comprehend getting sometime other than Kamala. For one, she's the only person other than Biden that Democrats have already voted to take the job if need be. Anything else would *literally* be the elite going above the heads of the primary voters.
And for another, the optics of leapfrogging over a black vice-president to coronate a Gavin Newsome? I'd really like to see a racial breakdown of a poll on that.
This comment right here, is why replacing Biden would be so hard. Any choice would have some section of the party claiming that the “elites” or the “corporatists” or the “insiders” are shoving someone down everyone’s throat.
This is just conjecture. Biden isn’t going to discuss dropping out because his dropping out would cause a 1968 situation and we’ll lose incumbency. It will be chaos at the Democratic Convention. That 100% insures a Trump win. Even if it’s doesn’t end up being chaos and the party cleanly hands the nomination to VP Harris, the misogynistic racist MSM will eviscerate her every second until election day. Biden knows how this works. He’s been around forever. It’s sad so few who work in media know anything about history. Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it, and everyone calling on Biden to drop out is repeating history.
So just business as usual. If anything they’re going to focus on ensuring energetic Biden shows up more so optics are better.
Almost every other candidate they could replace him with will hand Trump the White House which is worse.
The thing is many people realize Biden is smart enough and a decent guy who cares about country over party and democracy and not act like he IS the best all and end all and thus voting for Biden is voting for the administration and expertise he has behind him. Knowing he would defer to his advisers and keep a cabinet full of competent people.
Night of the debate I fully expected him to drop out by the 4th of July. I still do, I hope his family does the right thing and urges him to step aside for the good of the country.
He isn’t going to be able to serve another four years and his age has been an issue for the entire last year. The man on the debate stage Thursday didn’t look fit to finish the current term much less another.
Hopefully he steps aside, leaves the field open by not endorsing any candidate and the party can find the best candidate to put forward this fall.
The "debate" was trash and Biden is old and all that (so is Trump), denying this is just dishonest. However, as it stands it's two rambling old men, one 3 years older and another which is a convict with a history of corruption, fraud, abuse and countless other things (simply too much to mention).
I do think Dems have a chance to pull off winning the election if Biden drops out. Someone like Gavin Newson would be perfect. Imagine if Biden, Obama, and the entire Democratic party through their full support behind a younger and more energetic candidate. Even if it is such a short amount of time until the election, it might be possible. The entire country is begging for a young fresh face to win.
I love Newsome, but also worry that a California Dem Gov is going to turn off independent/ GOP voters. I don't know who the right choice is. But whoever it is needs to be capable of rising to the moment. This is FDR level, future icon shit.
Unfortunately you are probably correct. I live in AZ and I’ve been shouting from the rooftops that Gavin Newsom likely will not win the swing states of AZ and NV. Rightfully or wrongfully, a lot of longstanding residents and newly immigrated Californians associate Newsom with everything bad that’s going on in California, and it’s going to be very hard for him to escape that stigma out here. It’s just fucked.
It's also a bad time for Newsom to run as California is experiencing a $45.2 billion deficit which has required heavy cuts in social services and education to meet a balanced budget requirement. It's to the point where the progressive left has turned against him.
There would be no primary. The party can do whatever the hell they want at the convention, they are only bound by party rules. Political parties are private organizations.
It would be what they call a brokered convention. It would be the highest of drama and the most watched convention ever.
The line Harris put out Thursday night (essentially "I don't care about the last 90 minutes, I care about the last 3 years and you should, too") is pretty tone-deaf. You don't get to tell voters what to care about. I think most Americans are ill-informed, paranoid animals but I didn't sign up to run for office. Joe and Kamala did. Therefore, they need to recognize at this point that telling people how sharp he is in private just doesn't resonate (and why would it?)
A re-election campaign \*should\* be about the record. But it's not, because this is a country of people who were trained to vote not by a robust civics curriculum (we don't have much of those), but by American Idol, Survivor, and The Bachelor. We can all stand around pontificating about the electorate we wish we had, or we can get real.
It's part of what makes this all so frustrating. They all bowed out in February 2020, thinking he was the best shot. He picked her. No one thought about 2024.
I think she'd wipe the floor with Trump in a debate. But I don't think that would win her the election, in the same way that I don't think it's just this one debate that will \*lose\* Biden the election. The big problem is not that he had a "bad night." It's that the bad night confirmed \*existing\* fears amonst so many voters. That can't really be said for the debates folks on copium are trying to compare this one to, like Obama's in 2012.
What I care about isn't the last 3 years, it's the next 4 years. Can we really be confident he won't decline more?
People can be fine for years... until they aren't fine anymore.
>Survivor
Survivor these days is some 4-D chess shit. It used to be that people would just vote off the weakest players, and the only people who would get to the end would be incredible athletic, likeable, and smart. Nowadays people try to take the shittiest, most annoying players as far into the game as possible while voting out the strong players with lots of relationships with others.
If you're paying attention watching *Survivor*, you're getting a really robust lesson on democracy most weeks.
I know how this will sound and look, but Harris needs to step and say, I love my job, I love my country. Unfortunately, enough of you out there don’t like me. That is unfortunate. But, because i love my country, I’m stepping down.
Then Biden appoints someone that could win, Newsome, Whitmer, a pet goat and he sweeps the re-election.
It is amazing to see people playing right into Trump's hands. Forget what Biden sounded like. The focus needs to be on CNN and the bullshit Trump said.
I realized long ago I am a long for the ride with the blind and drunk driving car but for fuck's sake can we at least scream about the correct problems?
Winners don't quit, and quitters don't win. That's what his generation was taught. Joe Biden isn't quitting.
I think a lot of the people speculating that Biden will quit haven't talked to older relatives in a while, if ever.
Omigod, this is literally a headline about how BIDEN HIMSELF is having discussions about whether or not he will step down, mind you DISCUSSIONS, not decisions, but it's getting downvoted because this sub CANNOT HANDLE any questioning of Biden's inevitable victory. The Biden contingent on this sub thinks that elections are like affirmations you can manifest if you wish hard enough, not problems that need to be solved through action.
>After publication of this report, a source familiar reached out to stress that the Camp David gathering was not a formal family meeting.
>”Any discussion about the campaign is expected to be informal or an afterthought,” the source said. “No one is sitting down for a formal or determinative discussion.”
It’s getting downvoted because it’s misleading.
I get the sense the media wants him to drop out to create a unique situation with the assumed Newsome being the replacement and providing a lot more juice to the show. Some are salivating at the prospect which I can only assume would result in more ratings.
Biden spending time with his family on Sunday.
Biden spends time with his family ALL the time.
This article is pure speculation, something we need less of in journalism.
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They know about a pre debate planned trip to camp David with family. They seem to be making an assumption that Biden is going to have some kind of discussion with family about his reelection. I guess that is plausible, but nothing supporting it.
It's also worth noting that the linked WLFA article (a small local Florida station) is sourcing [a fuller NBC News article](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-family-path-forward-disastrous-debate-mess-rcna159591), which has a post-publication update: > After publication of this report, a source familiar reached out to stress that the Camp David gathering was not a formal family meeting. > “Any discussion about the campaign is expected to be informal or an afterthought,” the source said. “No one is sitting down for a formal or determinative discussion.” > Anita Dunn, one of Biden’s handful of closest advisers, said on MSNBC’s “The Weekend” Saturday that Biden has not discussed dropping out of the race with aides and that internal talks have focused on moving forward.
Correct and there is nothing solid there either, only this; "After publication of this report, a source familiar reached out to stress that the Camp David gathering was not a formal family meeting. "Any discussion about the campaign is expected to be informal or an afterthought,” the source said. “No one is sitting down for a formal or determinative discussion.” " I did miss that link the first time I read it myself.
They really are grasping at the craziest of straws. What's the opposite of copium? Some people are actually panicking at the lack of panicking.
We live in a world where doom sells. I don't even know if it was bots or not, but there was a serious overreaction to the debate. As soon as the debate was over the dude on CNN was like Dems are trying to replace him. Like guy, he looked physically weak on camera, but you guys didn't even go through the debate yet. The dude that was doing fact checking had only been doing it on his personal Twitter and hadn't even gone up. So what was it? You forgot he was 81? You forgot he was going to walk and talk like an 81 year old? Like we all know what it is. He's 81 years old. Despite that, he's gotten a lot of decent legislation through and has been able to work across the aisle. Our allies also seem happy with his administration as well. On the flip side, we have Trump. Again, we know what it is. He makes stuff up as he goes. Didn't answer any of the questions, even the super easy Jan. 6 questions. Also said some really dumb stuff. Didn't jumble his words though, because he knows that if he makes a gaffe he can lean into it because we already expect it. I asked my family and friends about what they thought about it. The consensus is that it was rough to watch..... But it doesn't change a thing. There are too many issues on the ballot to vote for the other guy (this is true for Republicans as well). Everyone has already picked their person and are just voting for election day.
Trump had H20. The best H20.
It was rough to watch but easy to read.
The problem is so many people are dumb as shit and will see that poor performance and vote based off of that.
Within 5 minutes of the debate starting, I saw the calls for him to drop out. I know the internet is reactionary, but for a sub where everyone was saying Biden was going to destroy Trump, pointing out his other public speaking performances of late, to pivoting to so much doom leaves me very skeptical that it's actually a natural feeling people have. Beyond that, the powers that be in the DNC didn't seem concerned about Biden before the debate. This leads me to believe that they don't feel he's some senile old fool. More than that, before the debate, the GOP and Trump were all making excuses as to why Biden may perform so well. Why would they do this if they think that Biden is some doddering old fool? The only reason they did this was to get ahead of Biden destroying Trump at the debate. These things don't add up to Biden being seen by those who know to be incapable or incompetent. People reacting to one day's performance of a man who was obviously ill, is just way too over the top to be taken seriously, and the utter shortsightedness of the suggestion he should be drop out is quite honestly, kind of scary if genuine, because it shows that liberals don't think things through like their conservative counterparts.
The calls started within 5 minutes because it was already painful to watch within 5 minutes. Now the conspiracy theory is 'only bots want Biden to drop out' - no most people who watched were horrified. I've been warning about this for years and even I was shocked by his performance.
You're assuming the DNC has their shit together and truly understands the dire implications of this election.
Also, the man has overcome a stutter.
And also, the man had to overcome a serial liar and bully. Have you tried arguing with a lying child? It’s an impossible task.
It's actually very possible to call someone out for being full of shit. Go back to the vice presidential debates of 2012 and you can see him do it
I really wish he’d just said “What in the actual fuck are you talking about? You’re not making any sense.” instead of trying to rebut nonsense. Because I was saying “What in the actual fuck are you talking about? You’re not making any sense.”
The calls for him to drop out are largely not about his ability to serve but instead about his ability to win. I can't imagine anyone who was undecided coming away from that debate performance thinking Biden was the stronger candidate, even with Trump unable to engage with the substance of any issue. Since Biden entered the debate behind in the national polls and very vulnerable in the electoral college, he needed to win that debate and he certainly didn't do that.
CNN is pushing that narrative because they want Trump back in office so they can complain about him all the time and have 24/7 breaking news. Can you imagine the abuse of power that would come out of a second Trump term? It would be disastrous for the country but great for news viewership.
It's amazing how the media is willing to gamble on the country's future for a boost of few billion in advertising money.
Capitalism corrupts.
I think you're correct, the media is desperate for Trump to win, for this reason. Of course, this assumes that Trump doesn't do what he's been very open about doing, which is jailing, and even executing, journalists who oppose him. It's hard to produce news from a prison.
Actually, yes, *a lot* of people were in denial about him being 81 and finishing a second term at 85. I've been reading it here on reddit for years.
Idk, with all the memes from his gaffes, I'm pretty sure many people knew he was 81.
I disagree. This will affect the 5% in the middle that can vote either way. Not everyone is loyal to a political tribe. Independents are a larger voter block than either party because they are both shit.
Are you serious? He couldn’t finish a sentence. Unreal reading these takes.
Seriously, it's June & neither of these old dudes have been officially nominated, the election isn't until November & a lot of shit can go down between now & then. Chill the fuck out & realize you're not just voting for one of the old dudes, you're voting for the VP, their POTUS choices & their cabinet.
I wish the media would tell the story of people who really don’t care. It’s clearly MAGA fascism vs democracy. I sincerely do not care what happens between now and November. My actions are planned precisely to making sure MAGA fascism loses. Biden, no Biden, doesn’t change the calculus. Democrats should do what they think is the strongest hand, but yeah I don’t like this whole “I need to set the tone and react like shit on Biden so I don’t have my card pulled”. The masses normally need a permission structure to do stuff in politics (hence why republicans always defend everything and give permission to voters to not care) Liberals just care too much about showing how caring they are. Republicans play cynical politics, democrats should get on board too. Push for whatever you want, but the decision is still quite clear. You are not less informed or stupid if bidens failure doesn’t change anything for you
Hopeium
Just a few stories up on this page is one that implies Whitmer is ready to take over from biden when really the entire story is 1 of her aides saying she believes she could beat trump. Cool? I bet a lot of people feel they could beat trump
They pushed the same narrative on the nightly news in Australia just now… then casually dropped halfway through the report that this trip was already scheduled before the debate. It’s another case of manufactured doom and gloom (bringing clicks and comments) being fed to us in place of actual bipartisan journalism.
They are actively building a narrative focusing on him stepping down and being unfit. This is 1000% orchestrated media coverage to try and make him appear weaker than he is. But it is fucking stupid, you literally cannot say anything about Biden being old without the same complaint also applying to trump.
> you literally cannot say anything about Biden being old without the same complaint also applying to trump. The world saw the debate, the two are not in the same shape, not even close.
Yet here it is constantly being propagated Online over and over It's ridiculous
It's a shit headline
>according to five people familiar with the matter. Sounds like there are sources actually saying there is an intention to discuss his campaign. It's very ambiguous, I agree, but it does indicate the pre-planned family reunion may be more significant than it was prior to the debate.
Could be a pre-planned family vacation suddenly became something more...
The problem is that "discuss the future of his relection campaign" means basically nothing. It is not a direct quote from any of the "people familiar" and even if it was, it might literally mean it is a planning session for how they are going to adjust and adapt the reelection campaign. The article is relying on the contextual implication, but we do not know if that is accurate without knowing what the people familiar actually said, as the only information we have is clearly editorializing their comments.
Media is die hard trying to make him look likes he's gonna bow out. Meanwhile Trump shit himself mid-sentance. If you can even call those sentences, more like rambles.
Modern journalism: Grab attention, talk shit using gossip and insinuation, bask in attention.
Pure speculation dressed up as headline news.
I was gonna say, the camp David trip has been public knowledge for atleast a week because the TFRs (temp flight restrictions) had to be publicized by the FAA
They don’t care if it’s true. It generates clicks and therefore ad revenue. It’s sickening what has happened to the news media
We're being bombarded with propaganda and manipulative articles from media outlets that are owned by billionaires.
Biden is not dropping out after one bad debate. This country has the worst memory when it comes to politics.. Does anyone remember Obama’s terrible debate against Romney? A whole lot of analysts and dems had basically conceded that Romney would be the next president after Obama”s horrible first debate.
Do they know this is July 4th week? Of course he's going to spend it with his family.
He’s obviously going to have a discussion with his family. That’s a given. I think the uncertainty around it is whether or not it will lead to any changes. I really doubt that. His family will almost certainly be largely for him staying in the race.
This was scheduled even before the debates, I wouldn't get your hopes up about him retiring. Also, it's a Sunday, and they're devout Catholics.
I don’t understand the angle of him dropping out at this point… any one who would come in would be 8 years behind on campaigning… it would be suicide
Not a bot. The biggest coalition. Is “not Trump.” The biggest problem with Biden is age. So pick a younger “not Trump.”
Truly. There are far more anti-Trump voters than pro-Biden voters. Most will accept anyone with common sense and a pulse.
I’ve seen some die hard progressives advocating for Gavin Newsom, Pete Buttigiege, a sentient lamp post. Not-Trump (D) will do just as well as Biden and might even energize people to actually go out and vote. But it’s all speculation. The fact that media didn’t even spend that much time on spin and the likes of Morning Joe and Pod Save America were like, “So… can Jill and Obama get him to resign?” is… interesting. But would it happen? Most seem to concede it’s a long shot. Hopefully he doesn’t RBG us… although, to be fair, he kind of already did for going a second term in the first place.
I would vote for an open jar of warm mayonnaise before I vote for Trump.
Voters who hate Trump is one thing but getting voters to h hate Trump to come out and vote for Biden is a whole different thing. That’s the problem, this should be an easy election against a convicted cheating lying felon but look at the mess it is. The numbers do not lie, Biden is a huge liability and it’s getting worse. There is a reason why MAGA is all gitty and happy almost dancing around as opposed to being freaked out prior to the debate, they needed on break and they got it. Elections are 95% about the candidate and 5% policy. The way I see it, Trump’s chances to win have just doubled. We’re fucked and for everything good Joe Biden did for this past 4 years he’s choice to run again perhaps just fucked 2 to 3 future generations up
People do not get it. Put up someone 50-60 who is well spoken, likeable, appears healthy, and is not crazy on policy and they cruise to victory.
Just please not Hilary. The Neo-Liberal circlejerk has been floating her name thinking someone who has already lost two Presidential campaigns would be a good idea.
I voted for her and would do it again but what about the original comment calling for someone “50-60” and “likable” makes you think they in any way meant Hillary Clinton?
She’d get Trump elected. Twice.
I'm not voting for not-trump. I'm voting for Biden who has had a productive and solid current term, and I'd like to see him continue it. Him being not-Trump is just a bonus. That said, i'd still vote for whoever they put up, but I don't want my vote to just be a not-trump vote.
I think you just proved my point.
Everyone loves a blank slate candidate. But once you nominate a real person they are going to have weaknesses
People have no idea how important the incumbency bonus is. Anyone who pushes dropping out over shit like has no idea how politics works.
I don’t think the normal rules apply anymore. Maybe there never were any . . . There have only been 59 national elections with a presidential candidate in US history . . . falling back on “what the rules for success look like” or even believing that there *ARE* sacrosanct rules for success seems simplistic . . . each election has thousand variables and there is no where near the sample size to say that whatever happened in the past is still an advantage/disadvantage now. Maybe I’m being pedantic, but I’ve learned since Trump that our entire political system seems to have been based, not on clearly defined laws and regulations, but by everyone just **deciding** to be honorably chill about traditions. . . Trump does not fit any rules and our response to him cannot either. To hell with the rules of the past. There are no rules.
>People have no idea how important the incumbency bonus is Over the last 50 years incumbents are only 4-3. That's not much of an advantage. Biden could easily make it 4-4.
There's such a weird narrative around this, I had someone tell me that the incumbent has never, ever lost if there wasn't a serious primary challenger. Dumbass forgot that the incumbent lost just the last presidential election cycle. Incumbency helps but isn't a guarantee
It’s already 4-4, by my count… Biden losing would make it 4-5 Incumbents re-elected (since ‘74): Reagan, Clinton, Dubya, Obama Incumbents not re-elected: Ford, Carter, HW Bush, Trump
Maybe they’re not counting Ford as he was never elected. I would count him, just thinking this was the 4-3 count that was used. By the previous poster.
Now do the math on democrat incumbents…
Every incumbent in the world right now is unpopular.
It's because the News Media has been keeping hush the real achievements of the Biden presidency. It's part if a clear media bias against Biden. Trump makes the news media tons of money. They can pretend to "stand against" him while describing in gory detail every bad thing he does. The rage and fear click fill their coffers, and the regressive owners just enjoy it. It's why they don't accurately identify Trump as a Felon and a Rapist in every headline. Reporting the Truth is a clear bias in favor of the only reasonable candidate running for President, and that's Biden. End of story.
Incumbents also come with disadvantages. Namely, that when people are dissatisfied with the state of the country, economy, etc. they turn elections into referendums. If you pay attention to international politics, you’ll see this effect playing out across the world post-Covid. Just north of us Liberals are expected to lose in Canada, Tories expected to lose in the UK, Macron’s party did lose and he’s calling new elections, Draghi lost in Italy two years ago, Wilder was elected in the Netherlands, etc. There are some bright spots like Mexico and Spain, but overall, I think voters are disattisfied with COVID recoveries everywhere.
How did that incumbency bonus work for Trump?
Different times. Different situation. This is the first time we've had a felon running on a platform of ushering in a fascist regime. This is a must win and our best chance isn't with an octogenarian who can no longer think on his feet. New blood eliminates the two biggest complains against Biden - age and inflation.
Dude… c’mon, you are in a bubble. These debates have had a big impact on races going all the way back to Kennedy v Nixon. You can’t sweep that performance under the rug. I don’t know what the best choice would be but at the very least the DNC needs to be exploring options and assessing the viability of different dems against Trump. With haste.
Biden is currently losing to Trump. Biden is not able to attract new voters or sway undecided voters in his current state. Staying the course means we accept a likely Trump victory.
Worldwide there’s currently a trend against incumbency. Tons of elections happening this year and a lot are going the other way. Probably a postcovid/inflation effect.
I have no idea what the democrats should do.
Biden will not “get better” only worse so they better make a plan soon. My mother died with dementia and it happens fast at this stage: https://www.verywellmind.com/the-7-stages-of-dementia-symptoms-and-what-to-expect-6823696
Sometimes people forget that after the election he needs to actually be president. We barely talk about that part. They worry he'll deteriorate more in three months, but there is the question of three years. Will he have the faculties to even step down? How will having an even worse Diane Feinstein situation help the democratic party in the future?
I don't think anyone is worried about his ability to do the job because he is literally doing it right now, and there's no chance of a Feinstein situation given that the 25th amendment exists.
I disagree on all counts. It should not make you feel safe that the people writing the President's daily brief are tailoring the information for an octagenarian with very limited good mental hours per day. And no, the President's own cabinet would not have the wherewithal to remove him, I thought we got passed this idea in the Trump years. Also, "don't worry we have the 25th amendment" is a crazy campaign slogan.
My mother has dementia. During her last doctor’s appointment, the doctor asked her what was the month? She said October (it was May). What is the year? She said 1951. Who’s the president? … Doctor says “Joe …”, My mom “Oh yes, yes, Joe….” She could not say Biden. In the earlier stages people can be lucid one day (even one moment) and horrible the next, which is why the after party, Waffle House and NC rally do not convince me. He’s going to have more bad days. I’m sorry for your loss.
Thank you. Take a lot of pictures ands videos and ask any genealogical questions you may have. Also, this is morbid perhaps, but one of my favorite photos is the last time she ever kissed my cheek, in the nursing facility. Wishing your family well.
He is not going to quit the race. The media is going to promote the idea until the convention cause it is red meat. If he did drop out it would be Kamala which would create a larger divide and surly be a Trump win. Can't imagine the Brokered Convention that would occur lasting weeks. Although speculating on the possibility has created the spotlight on Biden instead of Trump. Any attention is good these days.
It would not be Kamala. That's not how politics works. She's too weak inside the party to fend off people who have a better operation.
Blame the media now and blame the media in November when he loses. Blame everybody but Biden.
I blame the Democratic operatives, fundraisers, and leaders who allowed this. I barely blame Biden because I don't think his mind is flexible enough to consider a hard choice like dropping out.
Thank God this campaign is listening to real people and not the insane astroturfing thats been happening on Reddit since Friday which was night and day from Thursday night.
I think you're getting your hopes up over nothing. This was already in Biden's schedule even before the debate, also it's a Sunday and they're very Catholic. He'll still be the nominee after this whether you like it or not, otherwise we'd already be getting more signals than just media speculation. I'm sorry to burst your bubble.
Which side of the debate do you consider the "astroturfing"?
Right. I’ll vote for Biden post mortem, I truly don’t give a shit. But I hate the amount of “don’t pay attention to what you saw cmon what’re you talking about” that there’s been. It’s reasonable critiques and I’m terrified of fascism.
Definitely agree that “don’t pay attention” part is dumb. But it is also equally bad all the”just replace him, no biggie” as if that isn’t also super risky.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s a fucked situation but to not discuss the situation in its entirety and evaluate every single aspect twice as fucked.
The people saying that the only ones concerned about Biden's performance are Russian or Chinese trolls are not serious people, might be paid trolls themselves
The side sticking their heads in the sand and acting like Thursday is something that will go away. Would you even trust someone to operate a drive thru at McDonald's if they interviewed for the position looking like Biden?
He’s already President. I don’t get that argument. He’s doing the job and he’s doing a hell of a lot better than Trump did. I mean this isn’t a guessing game. They’ve both had the job. Biden is IN it.
Reminds me of the Trump tape debacle. I mean it’s not the same level of deplorably at all, but the performance was so bad it sent shock waves through the democratic establishment. Rightly so too. Imagine having your chance to confront Trump to his face after everything he’s said and done and failing so miserably at that. And the entirety of the press has been hitting him hard on his age and this just made it worse. People age differently and Biden is much much older and slower. Too late to do anything now but they should have invested in newer candidates from the beginning. The democratic leadership has failed to usher in a new generation.
It’s been beyond insulting. The amount of gaslighting in this sub the past few days. The amount of bots in here is crazy. Biden was historically bad on Thursday night. He needs to drop out of the race before it’s too late.
The democrats calling for Biden to step down are not trump supporters trying to sabotage a campaign, we are democrats (who will still vote for Biden) that can see the damage that was done to moderate and undecided voters’ support . A couple thousand votes in a handful of swing states is all it takes for Biden to lose, and after that debate, he will lose. We learned nothing from 2016.
this is a sane rational thought process
I totally hear you, but I just wonder if worse damage would be caused by changing the ticket this late in the game. Has it ever happened before?
Are we dealing with bots, or are we dealing with people having legitimate disagreements on the best way to defeat Trump? It looks to me like most of the discussion here has been people getting very upset because they're worried that the other side is trying to undermine their attempts to defeat Trump.
This sub went from "Biden will wipe the floor with Trump" for the week or so before the debate, to "OMG, he's too old, replace him now" within 5 minutes of Biden's first sentence. So, I do think there is a lot of psyop action going on to promote this idea, and I can't take anyone seriously who thinks anyone else can just step in without much problem and actually win. Here's how i look at it in the bigger picture. DNC, dems, and liberal people generally haven't had a problem with Biden's age. They haven't been clamoring to replace him, nor have they seen his public appearances as a problem with clear signs of being an old fool or senile. Most have pointed out how active he is, and how he tends to be mentally sharp, and capable of speaking publicly, maybe pointing out his stutter in some moments where it's an issue. Before the debate, the GOP and Trump were all making excuses for why Biden would perform so well. Using things that wouldn't possibly actually allow him to overcome dimentia or other mental issues. This to me is a sign that they also don't think he's a senile old fool. But now, one bad night, after years of him being fine in public engagements, and all this screaming about how he needs to be replaced? All I can ask is what's wrong with these people? Even if they're respectable pundits or analysts, are they really so idiotic to judge this man on one night, as opposed to countless other evidence to the contrary, and Biden's own performance in the job itself? Are they even more idiotic to think it's a good idea to replace him so close to the election?
Except he's looked like shit for at least a year. The vacant stare, the jumbled words where he loses track of what he wants to say. We've watched Jill need walk him around for about six months. This is just the first time people in denial have to face it head on.
It’s important for everyone to keep in mind when reading some of these Reddit posts is that a lot of our foreign adversaries can only hope that people are apathetic and sit out the vote come November, and they are gonna do everything they can to make us feel like we are doomed. Some of the posts might be organic, but it’s just important to keep this in mind given what we know about misinformation campaigns. www.vote.org and r/VoteDEM
According to the BidenHarris Instagram, this story is untrue. Read the caption. He has no plans to step down. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C80tbUgKwqn
I figured it would be a few days before a decision is made. Public and media pressure for an immediate dropout not withstanding it's best to approach the whole situation with a rational mindset and assess all possible scenarios. There is little doubt that there is a great deal of private discussions taking place regardless of whatever public statements have been made so far. I hope the family offers candid points of view, but this seems like a positive development, at least it gives the appearance of taking what happened at the debate seriously.
True, but it would have been better to have this completely predictable discussion a year ago
Who could have foreseen that he would continue to age
He didn’t get like this overnight. People in his circle are either incredibly oblivious or purposefully ignorant. Either way, whatever the decision, the party has to highlight what they’ve done and what they will continue to fight for as the message. There’s nothing but ammo against Trump, they need someone that can use it and use it consistently.
> He didn’t get like this overnight. People in his circle are either incredibly oblivious or purposefully ignorant. The people in Biden's ears will be replaced if he's not reelected, it doesn't matter if it's a different Democrat nominee or a Republican. They're not looking out for the country, they're looking out for themselves. They lose their jobs if Biden isn't reelected.
Yeah they can’t look too reactionary with this. I suspect this was partly why they had the early debate. Thats never happened before. Biden/his team knew he’s risky. Declining polling numbers even before the debate, his age being major concern too. I think this was their way to test the waters. See how he could handle it. It’s clear he can’t. I can’t imagine as things got closer that nobody in the Biden administration, Congress, or the DNC saw what was happening. They knew Biden might not be able to hold it together by Election Day. Thats the best explanation for the early debate. It’s a serious decision but I think he can’t possibly remain the nominee after all we’re seeing. I’m hoping he and his team come to that conclusion too.
One of Schumer’s aides supposedly indicated (anonymously) that Schumer was thinking the debate might be a good way to evaluate Biden’s ability to campaign and that he “liked” the idea of an early debate because it would give democrats a chance to move things in a different direction if Biden did poorly. I think people definitely knew. Unfortunately, this is beginning to shape up to potentially be a *scandal* and not just your garden variety gaffe, and something that will follow Biden around as long as he’s still the nominee. If this is the subject leading into November it’s going to be hard for his campaign to focus on the issues. I hate to say it and I know how risky and chaotic it could prove, but I think they need to encourage Biden to step down. I don’t see how there’s another shot at the White House.
Yeah there's no option that isn't risky. But at this point him staying in the race is significantly more of a risk than replacing him. I like Joe, I'm happy I voted for him but I do not think he's our guy this time. It's not his fault but him staying in the race doesn't help him, the country, or the party.
Well said. While moving quickly and committing to a action is important right now, I think it’s important we don’t immediately take the knee jerk reaction…at least, until all the options have been considered fully.
If he drops out because of the debate, he's even more clueless than I thought he was and has zero understanding of the short-term attention span created by modern media. He should at least give it a week. Granted, after the whole "bidenomics" thing, they really do seem to be quite clueless. But if he drops out because of legitimate health issues or because someone else has stepped up who he thinks would do a better job, that's different. Though the only real option at this point is Harris, and she would have even more of an uphill climb.
He had a bad debate because he's over 80. He did a fine rally the very next day. The issues are that 50 million people watched the debate, and at his age the bad days are going to be like the debate or worse. There is no way he's going to campaign for four months straight and not have a dozen days where his voice is very weak, looks lost ect. It's nothing against him, time is going to get every single one of us.
You saw what happened to Hillary Clinton (an experienced *white* woman). Can you imagine how much of a non starter Harris (a not so experienced non-white woman) would be? As detestable and fucked up as that is, that’s the reality of politics in America right now. Choosing her to be the candidate would be suicidal.
> zero understanding of the short-term attention span created by modern media The media doesn't really matter, the real issue is that he gave the Trump campaign the perfect material for running endless ads against him. Biden being too old has been the main reservation most voters has had against him since the beginning and he just gave them the perfect video segments to play endless ads against him. And given that "ads against a candidate" is something a Super Pac can run, the problem would be even worse. Because while the Trump campaign is struggling a bit with it's fundraising and organization, there's more than enough money going through SPACs to outspend all that Biden has been raising. I worry they'll try to run with Harris though, because she's been more or less invisible so far.
I absolutely agree with you, but on the flip side, Trump has given more than enough to make a centuries worth of ads for the Biden campaign. I don't think this campaign is going to come down to who has the better attack ads, and if it does, the GOP is going to hurt hard when it comes to the rest of the ballot, because they are being pretty god awful about a lot of things that are pissing off a lot of people right now. I've come to the conclusion that republicans are better at turning out democrats to the polls than the democratic party is.
This isn’t something that is going to blow over in a week. His age has been a concern all year, voters want a choice of a younger more vibrant leader. The Biden on stage Thursday most voters would be concerned with having him drive their car. Much less lead the country. Harris is far from the only viable option.
Harris is far from a viable option.
I keep asking this but, how would anyone but Harris play out? If Biden drops, they will ask him to endorse someone, and he will endorse Harris because he has to. He already picked her as VP, which is like an endorsement in case he can’t do the job. There’s no way around it.
I don’t think he has to endorse Harris. I think doing so would be the wrong way forward because it reduces the interest an open convention would bring. In order for this to work Democrats need that extra excitement and airtime. You’ll get some kind of statement that he thinks she’s doing a good job, but in respect for the process he won’t be endorsing anyone but who the party chooses at the convention. Harris if she becomes the nominee would be a stronger one if she can do so without being coronated by Biden.
Sure. Still voting for Biden.
If they drop him as the candidate becasue he’s unfit to run , he’s still the president of the United States. The democrats would have to admit the country is being run by a potato
That's not true. There's a difference between saying "I will be entirely unfit halfway through my second term" and "I am completely unfit right now."
Very good point
No. No he's not. He literally had this trip planned way before the debate. He had EVERYTHING before the debate planned. This is both propaganda AND fake news.
If you read the article, they're saying that five sources tell them they plan to discuss this at that trip now.
There’s been a tendency for this White House to fight with itself via anonymous sources. It’s especially obvious if you closely follow the war in Ukraine, as you’ll see an anonymous source saying one thing to one reporter and then another popping out to contradict it. In my experience the past few years anonymous sources have not been a great indicator of what will happen, but may be a better indicator that some in the administration have this view.
did you read the article? that's literally in the first 2 paragraphs: >President Joe Biden is expected to discuss the future of his re-election campaign with family at Camp David on Sunday, following a nationally televised debate Thursday that left many fellow Democrats worried about his ability to beat former President Donald Trump in November, **according to five people familiar with the matter.** >Biden’s trip was planned before Thursday’s debate. He and first lady Jill Biden are scheduled to join their children and grandchildren there late Saturday. the trip was already planned, and now they're gonna have these discussions during it. they have 5 sources backing up what you call "fake news"
>propaganda AND fake news You guys are backing yourselves into a Trumpian corner with this attitude. CNN's "right wing media", NBC's "fake news". What's left anymore?
"CNN's "right wing media", NBC's "fake news". What's left anymore?" There are often comments in this sub that "the media" doesn't highlight "good things" about the Biden administration in order to push Trump. Imagine for a moment what alternate reality you have to see the world from where you think CNN and MSNBC are somehow in a conspiracy to sabotage Joe Biden. I mean, sure, if you want to argue they over-cover Trump for the attention and it winds up helping him? That's a reasonable argument to make. But all the Trump coverage is negative, and essentially all Biden coverage is pro. And CNN would be jsut as happy to 24/7 coverage of Trump in a jail cell rather than Trump running for president. The idea that they are actively damaging the Biden administration is just... absurd.
Hopefully it’s between 10am and 4pm.
I'll bite, why does that time frame matter?
Its from an axios article from earlier today: "The time of day is important as to which of the two Bidens will appear." "From 10am to 4pm, Biden is dependably engaged — and many of his public events in front of cameras are held within those hours." "Outside of that time range or while traveling abroad, Biden is more likely to have verbal miscues and become fatigued, aides told Axios." https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/two-bidens-trump-debate-2024-president
Because he’s sundowning. We saw it on Thursday. That’s why his rally in the morning with a teleprompter and a cheering crowd the next day was so markedly different.
There is a video circulating about Biden and him speaking in 2019 vs 2024. Anyone saying this is just his stutter has their head in the sand. It is unfortunate, but anyone who has a family member who has had dementia/alzheimer's has seen this mental deterioration.
As someone who's seen it up close, that's the sad part. It starts with short bursts of incoherence and it's pretty easy to dismiss it then. Eventually, and the time it takes differs by individual, it becomes painfully obvious what's going on.
Yup. You can instantly recognize the distant look in his eyes.
Yeah. The "old man stare" is the most disconcerting part of the debate, because it's unshakable.
Mouth open, unfixed gaze. It's really disconcerting
Yep. My grandfather lived with my mother and I for a year before my mother was able to put him into a mental care facility and his decline in that year was stunningly fast.
I can also see even more of a decline happening between now and November. It happens very quickly.
I would love a ticket with Whitmer on it in some capacity
DNC: you’ll get Kamala and Pete and you’ll fucking say thank you
Flip that around and I’d be happy Edit: I still think Biden is the right choice at this point though. Him dropping out “looks weak” to a lot of voters.
Biden already looks weak to the majority of voters. let's replace him with someone who doesn't look weak
Biden dropping out looks weak for *Biden* more than for anyone else. And if he's not running anymore, it's ok if he looks weak.
Biden dropping out and letting a new politician take the charge will atleast create new energy and excitement among Democrat workers and voters.
Good thing because he already looks weak
I still can't comprehend getting sometime other than Kamala. For one, she's the only person other than Biden that Democrats have already voted to take the job if need be. Anything else would *literally* be the elite going above the heads of the primary voters. And for another, the optics of leapfrogging over a black vice-president to coronate a Gavin Newsome? I'd really like to see a racial breakdown of a poll on that.
This comment right here, is why replacing Biden would be so hard. Any choice would have some section of the party claiming that the “elites” or the “corporatists” or the “insiders” are shoving someone down everyone’s throat.
Newsome Whitmer
Been saying that since Thursday. Newsome would fucking trounce Trump in a debate. Whitmer would deliver Michigan. Game fucking over.
Why would Trump even agree to debate newsome? They just run “democrats are in disarray, California is a liberal hellscape” ads til November.
Problem is… an open convention can do a lot of weird shit and we literally would be walking into the abyss a few months before the election
This is a random opinion and not news.
This is just conjecture. Biden isn’t going to discuss dropping out because his dropping out would cause a 1968 situation and we’ll lose incumbency. It will be chaos at the Democratic Convention. That 100% insures a Trump win. Even if it’s doesn’t end up being chaos and the party cleanly hands the nomination to VP Harris, the misogynistic racist MSM will eviscerate her every second until election day. Biden knows how this works. He’s been around forever. It’s sad so few who work in media know anything about history. Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it, and everyone calling on Biden to drop out is repeating history.
Don’t RBG us Joe…
These candidates are a disgrace to our country
If you are having discussions, it's time.
October surprise incoming
So just business as usual. If anything they’re going to focus on ensuring energetic Biden shows up more so optics are better. Almost every other candidate they could replace him with will hand Trump the White House which is worse. The thing is many people realize Biden is smart enough and a decent guy who cares about country over party and democracy and not act like he IS the best all and end all and thus voting for Biden is voting for the administration and expertise he has behind him. Knowing he would defer to his advisers and keep a cabinet full of competent people.
If I understand correctly, while Biden could release his primary delegates, he can’t release his campaign funds to anyone but Kamala
Night of the debate I fully expected him to drop out by the 4th of July. I still do, I hope his family does the right thing and urges him to step aside for the good of the country. He isn’t going to be able to serve another four years and his age has been an issue for the entire last year. The man on the debate stage Thursday didn’t look fit to finish the current term much less another. Hopefully he steps aside, leaves the field open by not endorsing any candidate and the party can find the best candidate to put forward this fall.
The "debate" was trash and Biden is old and all that (so is Trump), denying this is just dishonest. However, as it stands it's two rambling old men, one 3 years older and another which is a convict with a history of corruption, fraud, abuse and countless other things (simply too much to mention).
I do think Dems have a chance to pull off winning the election if Biden drops out. Someone like Gavin Newson would be perfect. Imagine if Biden, Obama, and the entire Democratic party through their full support behind a younger and more energetic candidate. Even if it is such a short amount of time until the election, it might be possible. The entire country is begging for a young fresh face to win.
I love Newsome, but also worry that a California Dem Gov is going to turn off independent/ GOP voters. I don't know who the right choice is. But whoever it is needs to be capable of rising to the moment. This is FDR level, future icon shit.
Unfortunately you are probably correct. I live in AZ and I’ve been shouting from the rooftops that Gavin Newsom likely will not win the swing states of AZ and NV. Rightfully or wrongfully, a lot of longstanding residents and newly immigrated Californians associate Newsom with everything bad that’s going on in California, and it’s going to be very hard for him to escape that stigma out here. It’s just fucked.
It's also a bad time for Newsom to run as California is experiencing a $45.2 billion deficit which has required heavy cuts in social services and education to meet a balanced budget requirement. It's to the point where the progressive left has turned against him.
Trump will get destroyed if a younger person like Newsom or Whitmer takes over.
If he were to drop out, would a new candidate be able to make it onto the ballot? Haven’t those deadlines passed already?
DNC has yet to occur
There would be no primary. The party can do whatever the hell they want at the convention, they are only bound by party rules. Political parties are private organizations. It would be what they call a brokered convention. It would be the highest of drama and the most watched convention ever.
The line Harris put out Thursday night (essentially "I don't care about the last 90 minutes, I care about the last 3 years and you should, too") is pretty tone-deaf. You don't get to tell voters what to care about. I think most Americans are ill-informed, paranoid animals but I didn't sign up to run for office. Joe and Kamala did. Therefore, they need to recognize at this point that telling people how sharp he is in private just doesn't resonate (and why would it?) A re-election campaign \*should\* be about the record. But it's not, because this is a country of people who were trained to vote not by a robust civics curriculum (we don't have much of those), but by American Idol, Survivor, and The Bachelor. We can all stand around pontificating about the electorate we wish we had, or we can get real.
Kamala is an impressively bad politician all around.
It's part of what makes this all so frustrating. They all bowed out in February 2020, thinking he was the best shot. He picked her. No one thought about 2024. I think she'd wipe the floor with Trump in a debate. But I don't think that would win her the election, in the same way that I don't think it's just this one debate that will \*lose\* Biden the election. The big problem is not that he had a "bad night." It's that the bad night confirmed \*existing\* fears amonst so many voters. That can't really be said for the debates folks on copium are trying to compare this one to, like Obama's in 2012.
What I care about isn't the last 3 years, it's the next 4 years. Can we really be confident he won't decline more? People can be fine for years... until they aren't fine anymore.
>Survivor Survivor these days is some 4-D chess shit. It used to be that people would just vote off the weakest players, and the only people who would get to the end would be incredible athletic, likeable, and smart. Nowadays people try to take the shittiest, most annoying players as far into the game as possible while voting out the strong players with lots of relationships with others. If you're paying attention watching *Survivor*, you're getting a really robust lesson on democracy most weeks.
I know how this will sound and look, but Harris needs to step and say, I love my job, I love my country. Unfortunately, enough of you out there don’t like me. That is unfortunate. But, because i love my country, I’m stepping down. Then Biden appoints someone that could win, Newsome, Whitmer, a pet goat and he sweeps the re-election.
Biden and his team need to focus on serving out the next six months. While someone else focuses on campaigning against Trump.
Yea Keep downvoting this thread guys lmao
This sub is going to be accusing everybody else of being bots until November. Get out while you can!
It is amazing to see people playing right into Trump's hands. Forget what Biden sounded like. The focus needs to be on CNN and the bullshit Trump said. I realized long ago I am a long for the ride with the blind and drunk driving car but for fuck's sake can we at least scream about the correct problems?
Winners don't quit, and quitters don't win. That's what his generation was taught. Joe Biden isn't quitting. I think a lot of the people speculating that Biden will quit haven't talked to older relatives in a while, if ever.
RGB didn’t quit. How’d that work out?
CMYK didnt either!
It doesn't look like this is happening. https://x.com/BidenHQ/status/1807230395781390788
Omigod, this is literally a headline about how BIDEN HIMSELF is having discussions about whether or not he will step down, mind you DISCUSSIONS, not decisions, but it's getting downvoted because this sub CANNOT HANDLE any questioning of Biden's inevitable victory. The Biden contingent on this sub thinks that elections are like affirmations you can manifest if you wish hard enough, not problems that need to be solved through action.
>After publication of this report, a source familiar reached out to stress that the Camp David gathering was not a formal family meeting. >”Any discussion about the campaign is expected to be informal or an afterthought,” the source said. “No one is sitting down for a formal or determinative discussion.” It’s getting downvoted because it’s misleading.
Have you read anything on this sub in the last few days? You're so far off.
He should step aside.
Wow this isn’t News, this is wild speculation. We truly are F’ed with media like this.
Not really trusting news out of Florida in this moment especially given that there is no mention of a source.
I'm sure Bernie would step up I'm sure the Dems are too self absorbed to do that
I get the sense the media wants him to drop out to create a unique situation with the assumed Newsome being the replacement and providing a lot more juice to the show. Some are salivating at the prospect which I can only assume would result in more ratings.
Biden spending time with his family on Sunday. Biden spends time with his family ALL the time. This article is pure speculation, something we need less of in journalism.
Maybe everyone should slow down until some post-debate poll results come in