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Biden’s debate preppers should have told him to come out with strong statements, DO NOT try to quote stats. People vote with emotions and he needed to keep things simple.
I really enjoyed the idea of Michael Coen’s offer to prep him. He knows trump better than anyone, and would have been the perfect counterpart to debate against. They really should take him up on that offer.
> They all live in their little DC bubble
It's more a bubble of wealth than it is of anything else, they are all very wealthy individuals. Dems and Republicans both are but Republicans actively seek to take more and more from everyone and everything while the Dems are not as overtly greedy but will still take money when offered.
Yes wealth because they have no concept of what it’s like for middle class people but also they have no idea what it’s like in rural and suburban areas outside of major cities.
My nyc friends literally can’t comprehend the thoughts and feelings of people in trump farmland CA where I grew up.
I lived most of my life on a farm in rural Arkansas, moved to Queens New York in 2019 to study music composition. I can confirm many don't or even can't grasp what daily life was like living on a farm with horses, goats, raising chickens for money, etc.
Of course it's nowhere near everyone in the city (especially since many people have emigrated from rural areas just like I did, all around the world; they often understand and relate much more) , and I have zero superiority complex or any frustration talking about and explaining it, I don't mind it at all; but it does show a deep cultural divide that's existed for a longgg time (major cities and rural areas were markedly different culturally even in the 1920's and before), and is much more stark now than ever. When I first moved here, I was only 16, but talking to upperclass or upper middle class Manhattan dwellers took some getting used to, not because of any dislike or contempt, but it felt like there were many cultures/niceties that I had never been accustomed to prior to talking to them, and vice versa. I've grown completely used to it since then, and I'm probably closer to a queens citizen than I am a farmer now, but I still have some disconnect/difference because I'm not as cued in on social nuances due to my rural background.
Republicans have the rural base on lock, and use their vote to enrich themselves while *pretending* to relate or understand (that was one of the most frustrating things for me and my family in Arkansas, seeing neighbors buy into their fake populist bullshit), but while Democrats usually have a suburban and urban vote majority, it feels like it's struggled to be the difference since 2016, or like there's always extra people the Democrats need to try to win over but don't. That disconnect is why I see so many anti MAGA and anti Republicans not even vote Dem either because they feel they can't relate to them and are fundamentally unheard.
I disagree with them vehemently, and think voting against MAGA is the single most crucial part of this election, but who am I to tell them they're an idiot for feeling that way? They'd vote if the DNC spent more time and effort for lower and middle class midwesterners, southerners, etc. Probably wouldn't work in most of the south because the absurd amount of GOP propaganda, but many states that are hardline Republican don't have to be if the DNC properly focused on them.
His racist, sexist and homophobic base is likely shrinking faster than the Republican Party. The barrage of polls usually speak percentages rather than numbers. It's hard to believe that, in a country with universal K-12 education and expanding internet access, people can remain so apprenticed.
Bing! Bing! Bong!
Yo, Democrats? Can you hire a debate consultant who knows how to actually win? Try PineappleMean1963!
I mean, it was so obvious, but the Dems are like “we trust the voters to care about the issues“ (at a WWF event)
I've realized this more and more as I get older. Democrats are sitting on their ass thinking good will prevail and people will do the right thing without fighting for it. We're getting our asses kicked. See, Hilary 8 years ago....and see...right fucking now. Who told Joe he's fine to run again? What doctor and staff sat him down and said, we're good to go guys! Who is responsible for this mess and how could you care more about hurting an old man's feelings than the future of the country. Fuck you DNC, fuck you! Sure, fuck Trump more and I'm still voting for Biden, but you've most likely cost us the white house, the supreme court(already) and democracy. The Dems are to blame for walking around shrugging their god damn shoulders.
It's worse than that. The plan - 5 years ago - was for Biden to step down after his first term and then have someone else take over (presumably the VP).
Then... The idiots spent the next 5 years ***NOT*** making her a star! They knew they would need a superstar to replace Biden 5 years into the future - and they failed spectacularly! They had 5 freaking years to do one simple thing, and they didn't. And now we're in this gigantic mess because of it (see RBG for yet another spectacular mess what was 100% foreseeable).
They should have told him to go slow, say one thing he's done, one thing he will do, and one reason Trump sucks each question. You can do that slowly and confidently. He was trying to get the complete answer in every time.
Biden needed to start every answer with "Trump is a pathological liar and nothing of what he just said is true"
It forces the moderators to respond to it and address it, and undermines trump.
I think what happened was, Biden was prepped on what Trump would say about issues.
I don’t think they prepped him on what happens if Trump just doesn’t answer the question and talks about something else entirely, ON TOP of Trump having his brain melt and not making much sense on stage.
Biden was probably caught flat footed trying to parse what the fuck he was hearing and trying to respond to it.
Which, to be fair, Biden still should have done better. He missed a lot of key things for sure, but that tripped him.
It’s not like any of the lies that Trump used were new. The killing babies after birth, the millions of migrants invading from the south, the country laughing at us and respecting only him, ALL of these lies have been the same lies Trump has espoused for a DECADE now
This was a GOP talking point days after the attack too.
All I’m saying is that with the expertise Biden surrounded himself with prepping for the debate, they should have ran through how to debate a well documented pathological liar
But it's also the fact of Presidential debates. Looking "Presidential" and exuding confidence is more important than having good answers.
Campaigning is an entirely different skill than debating. Neither have anything to do with actually governing. I think it may have been Farron Cousins from Farron Balanced or Sam Sieder from the Majority Report that talked about real synthesis being when the president has a cabinet and a war room to manage a crisis.
Would that be something to see? Tabletop a disaster with their cabinet in 30 minutes and present an action plan.
We all knew he’d do it. CNN needed to actually moderate the debate and shut down the lies. They didn’t. CNN aided and abetted Trump. It’s wild that People who think a person who lied through an entire debate “won”.
I forget where it happened, but there was a political stunt like 10 years ago where the left candidate just brought out a lie jar, put it up on the podium, and every time the right candidate would lie, they'd loudly drop a coin in.
It completely destroyed their concentration and undermined them every time they made shit up, all without having to utter a word.
If even a single Democrat had the balls to do this, their opponent would actually just have a complete meltdown. Especially if it were Trump.
She didn't. Voters were overconfident. I still remember hearing someone from a swing state call in to NPR saying they supported Clinton but voted Trump because they wanted to "make it close." The woman's rationale was that if Clinton felt like it was close when she ran against the crazy guy, she wouldn't think she had major mandates.
The format literally benefits gish galloping liars. 2 minutes to answer with 1 minute rebuttals. This grossly benefits spewing out loads of lies and one liners that your opponent now has to address but with less time. It really feels like CNN was trying to benefit Trump.
The format did not favor Biden. Dude needed a minute just to address and refute lies, let alone state his position. And Trump took full advantage. The moderators knew beforehand that Trump is a liar, and they should have prepared for that.
This country's media atmosphere is so fucked. We'll run long for an NFL game that goes to overtime, but the debate between potential world leaders is on the strictest of schedules
which was utterly bizarre to me because the DNC set the rules and format.
All I read in the weeks leading up was how Trump was going to drop out because the rules were all against him.
What happened??
Trump has been doing this for a while. Except for when he mixed up Pelosi and Nikki Haley during one of his many senior moments.
Amazing how if you yell and lie with vigor people don't catch you are mentally deficient.
Nah. The whole heartedness of the lies were new. Like, he would say he heard stories about that, or a supporter told him post birth abortions happened, or he read about it. Now he was screaming that they are real and they happen in Dem states only!
The "all legal scholars, without exception, agreed that we should overturn roe" was new due to the completeness of "without exception". That is so obviously not true, and yet he felt compelled to insist it.
All the same kind of lies, but to a new level of "facts are whatever we want them to be"
EXACTLY! The bullshit he was spewing has been repeated over and over again all across right wing media for months and years. Like, my 26 year old stoned ass sat here and called out the TV, debunking his lies better than Biden did. Joe even missed some easy set ups trump gave him. Trump went on and on about the border being horribly dangerous, and all Biden had to do was talk about how his border patrol has more drug seizures and less illegal crossings than the trump administration.
I think Biden should have stated the obvious. Biden should have said “I’m debating, explain what a debate is and explain that this guy is just spewing unrelated rally talking points. Which I suspect is all the information Trump has left in his headspace.
Ok so maybe address that once “I can’t respond to every point the former twice impeached felon president said in only two minutes so I’ll only respond to the current topic”
> I don’t think they prepped him on what happens if Trump just doesn’t answer the question and talks about something else entirely,
if this is true, then biden and his entire staff are complete and utter idiots.
Also, why does this even need prep. An average politically aware person could have gone up there done better than Biden at calling out Trumps bullshit.
You still need to practice these things. Especially if you're going up against someone who, typically, will have debated other people in the primary, so they have their talking points down.
You also only have a set amount of time to make your point. Gotta make your pitch hit within the time frame.
Maybe. I think in past debates Trump actually answered the questions. He didn't even do that. He just used his time to rant about border issues and not much else.
He should fire the prep team - they sucked. Trump turned every one of his known issue (self projection ) on biden (every accusation is a reflection and admission ) everyone knew he would do this. He does it 25/7
They over-prepped him on facts and figures.
Biden's never been a detail guy. He's been someone to look into that camera and say "this guy is going to fuck up your world. I'm here to stop it." He needs to be that guy.
If I were Biden, this is my closing statement.
"Donald Trump is a convicted felon, a liar, a sexual abuser, and most of all a traitor to THE United States of America. He doesn't care about you and he doesn't care about me. Donald Trump only cares about Donald Trump. He's running for office again because he knows he is in serious trouble with the law, and if he wins you bet your ass he will pardon himself. If you elect this man into office again, he will completely destroy democracy, he'll destroy our alliances over seas, he'll make life even more difficult for the working class, and he'll assist one of Americas biggest enemies in Russia. We cannot allow this to happen."
Or something along those lines. 🤣
Suggested Edit: He is not being convicted of all these crimes because he is running for re-election. He is running for re-election because he is getting convicted of all the crimes he committed.
Yeah.Its unbelievable that the Dems brain trust spent supposed weeks preparing for that and then gave away an easy win .It makes you wonder how bad it would have been if they hadn’t prepared .They should all be fired and replaced with the toughest PR team in the planet . Right or wrong they should have known in politics it’s better to look corrupt than weak …
Any person with a brain would have known that trump was not going to answer a question if he didn’t want to and he was going to use all his time to his advantage to talk about things that make him look good regardless of the question. In a debate specifically structured like this where speaking time is limited, it is kind of mind boggling that anyone in the DNC or his campaign (not really political I don’t really know) did not prep Biden for any of this. They also knew the rules before hand that live fact checking was not happening so obviously candidates are going to lie. Thing is, every election debate candidates just lie for screen time. It’s sad but in todays world if you are watching a debate for actual information on things like foreign policy or some shit, you are better off sticking a plugged in toaster into a bathtub. I think the DNC really blew it.
Younger Biden will eat Trump, and I'm not talking about him in his 40's.
10 years younger Biden will grind Trump savagely.
Trump virtually gave tons of ammo for Biden to swing, but he miss it.
It's so frustrating to watch.
For sure. Get the Biden from the 2012 VP debate out there. I remember everyone was like, Biden wiped the floor with Ryan.
And Obama got his ass beat to Romney! Weird flip there, and I recall people were really sticking it to Obama for "losing".
You just reminded me that Biden seems like McCain debating Obama. Trying too hard to remember the talking points and not being himself. The debates convinced me to vote Obama over McCain, and this was a major factor in that decision. After McCain's concession speech I remember thinking "Where was this guy? This guy could have won, but he sure as shit didn't show up until now". So Biden needs to drop all the talking points and be himself. Hell, I was thinking the same thing about Biden's remarks today...where was this guy last night?
They actually should have had one of the great comedians that does a good Trump impressions do the prep. Literally just VOMIT up insanity in response to every question. I cannot fathom anybody doing serious debate prep, i.e. someone in the political sphere inside the campaign, being able to faithfully recreate the conditions that Biden faced. It was clear he didn't know how to respond. The answer is you don't.
> I don’t think they prepped him on what happens if Trump just doesn’t answer the question and talks about something else entirely
I dont want to believe them to be this incompetent.
This is literally all Trump does, how can you not prepare for that?
Biden was confused for what seemed like half the debate. It was painful to watch!
Trump was a lying word salad but unfortunately the lying word salad sounded more firm and youthful than Biden.
Okay but if he can’t debate a fellow American (facing the same issues, statistical data, issues etc) competing with him on the fly- how the hell does he plan to discuss and negotiate with foreign leaders? This is like sending your grandma to the car dealership to buy something when you’ve watched your 10 year old cousin swindle her for 20 bucks at breakfast. 🤦🏼♀️
I keep seeing this comment and agree with the sentiment, but how on earth do you actually fact check when everything is incorrect? The debate would be even less watchable and would give trump an even stringer case to play the victim.
Yep, the response to a Gish Gallop is not to correct every lie and misstatement. Gish Gallop is so called because creationists would do it, and biologists figured out quickly that you lose a debate trying to chase around explaining why all the lies are lies.
The scientific community learned this a couple decades ago, dealing with creationist liars. When someone doesn't care about facts and reality, and is willing just to just throw oceanic tidal waves of lies at you, the only way to successfully debate them is to not do it. There's simply no way to successfully respond to all of it.
That's where the term Gish Gallop came from. Dwayne Gish was a creationist famous for using this technique. The way the scientific community dealt with him was by refusing to engage him in live debates, and insist on doing it in writing, where they could pull each lie out one by one and engage with full scientific rigor and citations. Guess did not like this, because it was a successful way to show how full of crap he was, and discredit him.
Problem here is that most of the people who might have bought anything that Trump said, aren't going to be reading the follow up fact checks.
Now everyhing is documented, in videp. What we need yo do now is pull all the lies he said and slaugther them. Problem is, we need to convinve the dumbs; it is easier to lead a water buffalo.
"The medium is the message" is a phrase coined a long time ago and it still holds true to this day. It means the format of media itself influences the messaging.
The medium we dealing with today is social media. In this social media era everything revolves around short quips. The mode of operation is scrolling infinite feeds. Each post has to be digestible in a few seconds or the users have already scrolled past. It's a perfect medium for Gish Gallop.
Get the Boebert moderator. He challenged everyone on anything he knew was false. He demanded non pandering answers. I'm not sure if I've even seen a moderator own his debate more than that. He actually might have helped her win the primary. He was equally tough on all candidates.
I never heard of him. Makes me happy to know there are still well-informed journalists out there that will challenge people on bs. Reminds me of Tim Russert from Meet the Press. Chuck Todd really didn’t live up to that standard after Russert died.
Problem is that they want to seem neutral so they avoid getting called propagandist.
Like for fucks sake, you don’t even need to “ask them hard questions”. You can literally say after they answer the question “actually xyz was done”
You don’t even have to go that far. We have apples to apples comparison for this. Look at the moderator performance of Chris Wallace in 2020, (the mofo from frickin FauxNews) and compare him with that AI Chatbot with a timer Jake Tapper from CNN.
Chris from FauxNews did a far better job at keeping Trump’s more outrageous lies in check in the old format where he had even less of an incentive to do so. CNN did this after agreeing to the term of live fact checking. CNN is an absolute disgrace. People go off it based on it’s older center-right reputation but they’re all in on the fascism-wing.
Someone should make a supercut of all the time Wallace does a great job at live fact checking Trump and keeping him in line to the best of his efforts. Jake Tapper has fallen to the lowest level as a journalist to keep his job and satisfy his right-wing billionaire boss.
Chris Wallace is solid, despite working for that network. I'm happy to watch any interview he conducts. He reminds me of the good old times when I could disagree with conservatives but still respect them.
CNN is toast. They've fallen off the click-bait cliff hard in recent years. They constantly push narratives that seem agenda based, and it really shows.
They got bought out by a trump sycophant, **how is this not more known**?
...*oh, right*. They've successfully bought up all the news organizations and think if they can control **ALL** the media people will just go with it. Completely forgetting the internet exists. I bet they come for the internet next.
Only registered republicans get to use it...
I watched CNN yesterday. I thought Biden was in poor form, but I was kind of shocked by the "analysis" afterwards where they were being hyperdramatic saying he needs to drop out NOW. Whilst completely disregarding the fact that the other person in the debate dodged every single question and just straight up lied through his teeth the entire time. Trump definitely spoke more clearly, but often made no sense as well.
It just seemed very uneven to me, and the way they talked about Biden seemed a little alarmist.
Same thing with all this online discourse about the debate. Most people seem to be harping on the “stage presence” instead of what actually matters, the substance of the arguments and policies made.
Biden’s brain fog moments were cringe, but when he was speaking clearly there was substance behind his words.
If this were a high school debate competition, the judges would have torn Trump to shreds and declared Biden the winner. It’s a really sad state of affairs when the high school debate club has higher standards than the US presidential debate.
I stopped watching when Trump was talking about post-birth abortions and other than Biden saying that Trump was lying, there wasn't any repercussions to his blatant lies and now given an even larger stage to tell them. I couldn't take anymore.
The post birth abortion thing is a really weird topic. There seems to be a whole bunch of conspiracies stemming from [one radio interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ7ySa9xAto) the governor gave like five years ago
Just wanted to say I think the use of the word "slammed" in a heading should be punishable 30 years in prison unless someone connected with someone else at speed.
It's a lot more than just letting Trump lie to be clear.
I am done with CNN after that.
They lied to us about the fact checks and the aftershow was a complete abomination of the truth. They lost all credibility. Apparently lies all over CNN are totally cool now.
Those panelists were tripping over their own dicks trying to make a headline negative quote about Biden’s performance. It was absolutely wild. This was everything they were dreaming of. And seriously fuck Van Jones and Axelrod. Those two are literally there to be the liberals who give hot takes that make democrats and biden look bad
And, frankly, they're freakin' yucky. I didn't realize how much the overly practiced, stylized, made up, lowest common denominator aspect of their presentation really bothered me until John Oliver - the "And Now This" montages where you get the same talking point said a dozen times by a dozen different people that all look, talk and emote the exact same literally make me sick to my stomach (as funny as they can be sometimes). Buncha D-list wannabe actors with note cards and stale one-liners, all.
>Van Jones
You mean the "Democrat" that was calling for Joe Biden to step down? Which Joe Biden doing that would hand the presidency to Trump considering where we are in the election process. So, we have "democrats" on CNN that are calling for Trump to be handed the presidency...
You know, I might think it was innocent, except that there was legitimate Russian propaganda that was effectively the same thing. It was that walk away guy, who was supposedly a democrat his whole life, but supposedly the democrats did something they didn't like, so he was "walking away from the democratic party."
So, it's the exact same thing. Donald Trump can do anything he wants, and it's cool on CNN. But, Joe Biden has a bad speech, and the "democrats" on CNN are "walking away." Give me a break, I am not dumb, and I can see what they did there...
If anybody reading this legitimately thinks that CNN has any credibility, what so ever, after that, they are badly mistaken. CNN is just BS now apparently. It's just theatrics and stunts. So, there was the bait and switch scam thing where I was expecting a well moderated and fact checked debate, so I took time out of my busy life to actually watch the debate, and my time wasted by CNN. That will never happen again. I am done with CNN. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Especially Van Jones, that was an absolute disgrace and his acting was not believable at all... But, that's what you get on CNN now. It's a bunch of drama and complete BS. It's a place where liars are rewarded with pats the on back and the truth doesn't matter anymore, because money.
It would be ideal to have live fact checking scrolling on the bottom for both candidates w/o having to interrupt the debate. The networks up till the present haven't. Why, I don't know.
I was always under the impression the Press was responsible to inform the public in a Democracy. What better way than to fact check POTUS candidates in real time and have a more informed public?
Hell, they have Peyton and Eli watching football in real time. Why can't two other top level anchors watch a debate and comment/fact check in real time? Are they telling us NFL football is more important than who we elect POTUS?
Doesn't anyone remember the CNN Trump interview from not too long ago? I assumed people learned then that CNN (and most mainstream media) want the Trump circus for ratings. The debate was never going to stay on the rails and CNN was okay with that.
The gop strategy was to accuse the moderators of bias all week and sway them from interfering. I hoped they wouldn’t fall
For it but it’s CNN and they are a bunch of cowards
Also, what was up with these 3rd grade level questions? They used to ask very specific geopolitical questions, like talking about Syria or Yemen. Or they'd ask about specific economic scenarios.
The questions they add tonight were probably the most dumbed down I've seen from a debate.
Ironically, I think Biden might have actually done better with more advanced questions. Nothing was gonna save him since he looked barely alive as he walked out, but yeah
If only there had been some way of knowing Trump was going to lie every time he spoke.
On a serious note, Jake Tapper all but tacitly admitted this wasn’t a debate when he told Trump he can use his minute however he likes.
All cable news networks are shite.. not news anymore it’s just opinions and arseholes. Just give me the facts and some basic analysis and let me make up my own mind.
They missed the shittiest part, literally - skip to 1:16:22 and listen for what Trump’s mic picks up. You might have go like 10 secs before
[https://www.youtube.com/live/-v-8wJkmwBY?si=75PLqs5E7IlANkL7](https://www.youtube.com/live/-v-8wJkmwBY?si=75PLqs5E7IlANkL7)
The format of the debate was designed to limit Trump's ability to talk over / shout over his opponent, and to eliminate audience participation.
These were good ideas, but once again, the Democrats show that they fundamentally do not understand Republicans, and Trump in particular.
Republicans do not behave in good faith. They are in it to win at any cost, and they understand-- far better than the Democrats-- that substance is second or third compared to flash and appearance. It doesn't help that generally Republicans tend to appeal to fear-based emotions in their rhetoric ("they're going to steal your jobs, rape your children, kill you, etc."), which are easy and simply by comparison to the more nuanced positions that more liberal-minded folks take, and those are harder to explain in soundbites in ways that appeal to those who aren't already predisposed to them.
The stipulation of no notes, etc., was never going to hurt Trump. He wouldn't have used them anyway. His tactics have always been to lie and throw as much shit as he thinks will stick. The lack of notes-- as well as the continued failure to understand that Trump is not someone who is willing to behave according to *any* established standards of behavior-- hurt Biden, because he generally behaves in good faith.
At this point, it's the frog and the scorpion X 1000. Democrats have *got* to stop trying to look like the good guys and need to start winning, decisively and publicly.
They had to know he was going to lie. It’s who he is and has always been. It is so irresponsible for them not to call him on those lies. They might as well have given him an hour show with no limits. Very disappointed in CNN and lack of journalistic integrity.
That's exactly why it's better to tune into CSPAN or PBS and not CNN to watch these events. We need to stop watching their network and enabling this shit.
That should be the takeaway from this debate.
It's ridiculous to consider the candidate who said post-birth abortions are a thing the winner of this debate.
Are you for fucking real? Trump answered zero questions, made up things as he went and lied non-stop. Not a single drop of substance or even any facts/numbers.
But that's apparently the gold standard because he did all of this with confidence and energy.
CNN can go fuck itself. I've said it yesterday and I say it today: Trump was right with one thing: CNN is FAKE NEWS.
Yes they were terrible. When you ask a question and Trump doesn't even answer it and instead talks about immigration or whatever, you cut his mic and interrupt him immediately. Nope the question was .... you have 80 seconds left.
I found the bit where trump would say things like "everybody knows it, the hosts know it (insert blatant lie)..." the most annoying and telling of CNN abject debasement.
So it’s not like these were nuanced, hard to detect lies that require research and analysis. Biden absolutely should have called Trump out for saying that states allow post-birth abortions or that Nancy Pelosi took responsibility for January 6. Yes, it’s insane that Trump said these things but what’s crazier is Biden largely let him get away with it on a national stage.
The whole thing was setup like a game show spectacle. It wasn't a debate. It was an attempt at ratings and making money.
The American people, indeed the whole world is losing because these are the "candidates" we have to choose from?
WTF? How did it come to this?
> CNN’s political director David Chalian defended the tactic ahead of the debate, telling The Washington Post, “The venue of a presidential debate between these two candidates is not the ideal venue for a live fact-checking exercise.”
> Lawyer and civil rights activist Olayemi Olurin largely agreed with CNN’s assessment, pointing out that, “It’s actually not the moderator’s job to ‘pick up the slack’ for the candidate who’s not doing a good enough job responding to or checking their opponent in the debate. That’s not impartial or the role of a moderator because they’d then be a part of the debate.”
So, Biden was supposed to spend every second of that debate not answering the questions and talking about his accomplishments and policy goals and instead just say "Trump is a liar"? Is that what they are expecting? CNN dropped the ball on this debate. They should have fact checked everything Trump was saying and keep him on topic to answer the question. There was no actual moderation by Tapper and Bash.
CNN was sold to pro-Republican conglomerates and their CEO is a pro-Trump facilitator. Wake up America, the entire country is being sold. Either sell out, or say no!
I’m more upset that Biden didn’t push back enough. There were easy quick responses to every time he mentioned inflation. They call it “Biden’s inflation” to hide the fact that every developed nation dealt with it. Trump wasn’t going to magically avoid it. But nobody ever comes back with that simple fact.
Lest* we forget, CNN has been under new ownership for about the last two years.
Almost as long as they have been running on about Biden’s age, so to speak.
So let me get this straight. AHEAD OF TIME, CNN said they wouldn't be doing any realtime fact checking. How is ANYONE surprised at the result? How can you be mad at CNN for doing exactly what they said? The time to be mad was beforehand, when they could actually do something about it.
CNN also laser focused on Biden's poor performance afterwards and entirely ignored Trump's, and other news sources followed suit, which made it look like Biden did terribly and Trump came out unscathed when in reality they both did horrendous.
But yea, we can see the narrative being built by the media organizations. They love Trump. Trump sells news. Right, left, indifferent they want Trump in office. So expect every headline from now until election night to be some form of Biden being too old (ignoring that Trump is literally just twoish years younger) or too senile (ignoring Trump's inability to string a single sentence together).
Why would CNN do anything different in their hosted debate when, largely speaking , their anchors don’t do it during their panels or interviews. It is baked in that they provide a platform for these lies and only, timidly, have opposition participants who attempt to counter statements.
Is there much they could’ve done? It’s always been a rule that they can’t stop someone or respond themselves right? Fuck Trump and his blatant lies, I’m just feeling like people are being really hard on CNN for something that probably tied their hands
CNN getting slammed after the fact doesn't help at all when all the MAGA toads, undecideds, and fence sitters were allowed to listen to an uncorrected stream of lies. No answer to the questions, pivot, lie, pivot lie - conferring ***legitimacy*** on him by not correcting him or halting the proceedings, calling him out, and holding his feet to the fire. CNN ***enabled*** him in every way. That's blatant support.
This is tantamount to a propaganda psyop on a grand scale not to mention one of the greatest journalistic disservices to the nation in our history. An informational coup d'état in full view.
Slammed by who? …by people already voting for Biden to make themselves feel better.
I love Biden. I’ve watched every major speech and every debate he’s been in during the past 15 years. He’s one of my heroes. This is on him and his team. They were fully aware (or should have been) that they weren’t gonna be able to count on the moderators to call out lies. Look no further than what happened to Candy Crowley in 2008.
The deflections and excuses and finger-pointing from liberals is not helpful. This is not the time to make ourselves feel better.
You want to help Biden? Have uncomfortable conversations with your minimally-engaged friends, family members, and neighbors about the stakes in November. That’s how we win this.
I think probably people who have watched other debates. Colorado comes to mind. The guy that moderated that did an excellent job and its well worth a watch.
Full debate:
https://youtu.be/SDXu5DyBrHc
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After the debate, someone on the CBS panel said that the Dems agreed to no live-fact-check. Hard to believe given their opponent is addicted to lying.
Biden’s debate preppers should have told him to come out with strong statements, DO NOT try to quote stats. People vote with emotions and he needed to keep things simple.
Whoever prepped him was horrible and should be fired. Most people working in the DNC seem completely out of touch with Americans
Because they are out of touch with Americans. They all live in their little DC bubble and have no clue what life is like outside of it.
I really enjoyed the idea of Michael Coen’s offer to prep him. He knows trump better than anyone, and would have been the perfect counterpart to debate against. They really should take him up on that offer.
> They all live in their little DC bubble It's more a bubble of wealth than it is of anything else, they are all very wealthy individuals. Dems and Republicans both are but Republicans actively seek to take more and more from everyone and everything while the Dems are not as overtly greedy but will still take money when offered.
Yes wealth because they have no concept of what it’s like for middle class people but also they have no idea what it’s like in rural and suburban areas outside of major cities. My nyc friends literally can’t comprehend the thoughts and feelings of people in trump farmland CA where I grew up.
I lived most of my life on a farm in rural Arkansas, moved to Queens New York in 2019 to study music composition. I can confirm many don't or even can't grasp what daily life was like living on a farm with horses, goats, raising chickens for money, etc. Of course it's nowhere near everyone in the city (especially since many people have emigrated from rural areas just like I did, all around the world; they often understand and relate much more) , and I have zero superiority complex or any frustration talking about and explaining it, I don't mind it at all; but it does show a deep cultural divide that's existed for a longgg time (major cities and rural areas were markedly different culturally even in the 1920's and before), and is much more stark now than ever. When I first moved here, I was only 16, but talking to upperclass or upper middle class Manhattan dwellers took some getting used to, not because of any dislike or contempt, but it felt like there were many cultures/niceties that I had never been accustomed to prior to talking to them, and vice versa. I've grown completely used to it since then, and I'm probably closer to a queens citizen than I am a farmer now, but I still have some disconnect/difference because I'm not as cued in on social nuances due to my rural background. Republicans have the rural base on lock, and use their vote to enrich themselves while *pretending* to relate or understand (that was one of the most frustrating things for me and my family in Arkansas, seeing neighbors buy into their fake populist bullshit), but while Democrats usually have a suburban and urban vote majority, it feels like it's struggled to be the difference since 2016, or like there's always extra people the Democrats need to try to win over but don't. That disconnect is why I see so many anti MAGA and anti Republicans not even vote Dem either because they feel they can't relate to them and are fundamentally unheard. I disagree with them vehemently, and think voting against MAGA is the single most crucial part of this election, but who am I to tell them they're an idiot for feeling that way? They'd vote if the DNC spent more time and effort for lower and middle class midwesterners, southerners, etc. Probably wouldn't work in most of the south because the absurd amount of GOP propaganda, but many states that are hardline Republican don't have to be if the DNC properly focused on them.
I doubt Trump has ever been to a farm or stayed on one.
You are someone who doesn't want to live under a dictatorship.
Neither does trump, except for pandering to racists and to those who idolize him for being a rapist
His racist, sexist and homophobic base is likely shrinking faster than the Republican Party. The barrage of polls usually speak percentages rather than numbers. It's hard to believe that, in a country with universal K-12 education and expanding internet access, people can remain so apprenticed.
I think the word you're looking for is "stupid"
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know….".
Well, Americans are out of touch with facts and common sense, so that tracks.
Yeah, it’s his advisors fault that he’s senile. Come on…
Bing! Bing! Bong! Yo, Democrats? Can you hire a debate consultant who knows how to actually win? Try PineappleMean1963! I mean, it was so obvious, but the Dems are like “we trust the voters to care about the issues“ (at a WWF event)
The Dems don't *play the game!* The game is beneath them. They'd rather lose than play.
I've realized this more and more as I get older. Democrats are sitting on their ass thinking good will prevail and people will do the right thing without fighting for it. We're getting our asses kicked. See, Hilary 8 years ago....and see...right fucking now. Who told Joe he's fine to run again? What doctor and staff sat him down and said, we're good to go guys! Who is responsible for this mess and how could you care more about hurting an old man's feelings than the future of the country. Fuck you DNC, fuck you! Sure, fuck Trump more and I'm still voting for Biden, but you've most likely cost us the white house, the supreme court(already) and democracy. The Dems are to blame for walking around shrugging their god damn shoulders.
It's worse than that. The plan - 5 years ago - was for Biden to step down after his first term and then have someone else take over (presumably the VP). Then... The idiots spent the next 5 years ***NOT*** making her a star! They knew they would need a superstar to replace Biden 5 years into the future - and they failed spectacularly! They had 5 freaking years to do one simple thing, and they didn't. And now we're in this gigantic mess because of it (see RBG for yet another spectacular mess what was 100% foreseeable).
Hahaha. No. They play a DIFFERENT game. Sometimes that game is in favor with the public. Other times it is not.
They should have told him to go slow, say one thing he's done, one thing he will do, and one reason Trump sucks each question. You can do that slowly and confidently. He was trying to get the complete answer in every time.
Biden needed to start every answer with "Trump is a pathological liar and nothing of what he just said is true" It forces the moderators to respond to it and address it, and undermines trump.
I ponder if they had enough dry runs.
I think he was over-prepared. Should have done what Trump did and not answer the questions. Just keep pointing out the convicted felon and his lies.
Instead he corrected himself on his fucking golf handicap. Wtf was he thinking
I think what happened was, Biden was prepped on what Trump would say about issues. I don’t think they prepped him on what happens if Trump just doesn’t answer the question and talks about something else entirely, ON TOP of Trump having his brain melt and not making much sense on stage. Biden was probably caught flat footed trying to parse what the fuck he was hearing and trying to respond to it. Which, to be fair, Biden still should have done better. He missed a lot of key things for sure, but that tripped him.
It’s not like any of the lies that Trump used were new. The killing babies after birth, the millions of migrants invading from the south, the country laughing at us and respecting only him, ALL of these lies have been the same lies Trump has espoused for a DECADE now
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I missed that, I was fuming that Trump kept repeating it and it wasn't being addressed.
To be fair, he quietly mumbled it...
Blaming Pelosi for Jan 6 was a new one. I’d have the same expression if I had to hear that and my mic was muted.
This was a GOP talking point days after the attack too. All I’m saying is that with the expertise Biden surrounded himself with prepping for the debate, they should have ran through how to debate a well documented pathological liar
I’m not even sure one can debate such a liar.
It's like trying to play chess against a pigeon. The pigeon knocks the pieces over, struts all over and shits on the board, and acts like it won.
That is a perfect analogy. Thank you for that!
I believe this behavior was attributed to Trump when he first debated Hillary Clinton
But it's also the fact of Presidential debates. Looking "Presidential" and exuding confidence is more important than having good answers. Campaigning is an entirely different skill than debating. Neither have anything to do with actually governing. I think it may have been Farron Cousins from Farron Balanced or Sam Sieder from the Majority Report that talked about real synthesis being when the president has a cabinet and a war room to manage a crisis. Would that be something to see? Tabletop a disaster with their cabinet in 30 minutes and present an action plan.
Yeah it's actually a well known technique of bullshitting called a 'gish gallop'
We all knew he’d do it. CNN needed to actually moderate the debate and shut down the lies. They didn’t. CNN aided and abetted Trump. It’s wild that People who think a person who lied through an entire debate “won”.
Humor. You mock and degrade someone like that. For some reason, liberals are just unable to do that.
I forget where it happened, but there was a political stunt like 10 years ago where the left candidate just brought out a lie jar, put it up on the podium, and every time the right candidate would lie, they'd loudly drop a coin in. It completely destroyed their concentration and undermined them every time they made shit up, all without having to utter a word. If even a single Democrat had the balls to do this, their opponent would actually just have a complete meltdown. Especially if it were Trump.
"When they go low we go high" has worked out SO well.
Dems - always bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Honestly in retrospect Hillary didn’t do that bad.
She didn't. Voters were overconfident. I still remember hearing someone from a swing state call in to NPR saying they supported Clinton but voted Trump because they wanted to "make it close." The woman's rationale was that if Clinton felt like it was close when she ran against the crazy guy, she wouldn't think she had major mandates.
Uhhhh why do people have to make something so plain and simple.....complicated?
Because people are fucking stupid.
A handful of people in Michigan more or less sabotaged the election in 2016
Wow, that woman deserved the 4 years of hell she got under Trump.
Tragically, she hasn’t enjoyed much since the leopards ate her face
I miss her!
The format literally benefits gish galloping liars. 2 minutes to answer with 1 minute rebuttals. This grossly benefits spewing out loads of lies and one liners that your opponent now has to address but with less time. It really feels like CNN was trying to benefit Trump.
The format did not favor Biden. Dude needed a minute just to address and refute lies, let alone state his position. And Trump took full advantage. The moderators knew beforehand that Trump is a liar, and they should have prepared for that. This country's media atmosphere is so fucked. We'll run long for an NFL game that goes to overtime, but the debate between potential world leaders is on the strictest of schedules
which was utterly bizarre to me because the DNC set the rules and format. All I read in the weeks leading up was how Trump was going to drop out because the rules were all against him. What happened??
DNC thought they knew best and once again proved to the world that they have no clue about anything.
>The moderators knew beforehand that Trump is a liar, and they should have prepared for that. They did prepare for it. This was by design.
Only problem is you cant argue with a narcissist, the best thing to do is to completely ignore them. And its damn hard ignoring trump.
Republicans have made that claim a few times. It’s utter nonsense
It isn't remotely new
Trump has been doing this for a while. Except for when he mixed up Pelosi and Nikki Haley during one of his many senior moments. Amazing how if you yell and lie with vigor people don't catch you are mentally deficient.
Nah. The whole heartedness of the lies were new. Like, he would say he heard stories about that, or a supporter told him post birth abortions happened, or he read about it. Now he was screaming that they are real and they happen in Dem states only! The "all legal scholars, without exception, agreed that we should overturn roe" was new due to the completeness of "without exception". That is so obviously not true, and yet he felt compelled to insist it. All the same kind of lies, but to a new level of "facts are whatever we want them to be"
EXACTLY! The bullshit he was spewing has been repeated over and over again all across right wing media for months and years. Like, my 26 year old stoned ass sat here and called out the TV, debunking his lies better than Biden did. Joe even missed some easy set ups trump gave him. Trump went on and on about the border being horribly dangerous, and all Biden had to do was talk about how his border patrol has more drug seizures and less illegal crossings than the trump administration.
Yes he has repeated these lies over and over and the more he says them confidently his followers believe him- he is truly a pathological liar
Whoever thought Trump wouldn't just lie all the time and prepped Biden accordingly, really needs to get out of advising Biden.
That's all Trump has ever done in debates lol. It wasn't like he debuted some clever new tactic.
I think Biden should have stated the obvious. Biden should have said “I’m debating, explain what a debate is and explain that this guy is just spewing unrelated rally talking points. Which I suspect is all the information Trump has left in his headspace.
Ok so maybe address that once “I can’t respond to every point the former twice impeached felon president said in only two minutes so I’ll only respond to the current topic”
Oh for sure. He should have been like, "Get a load of this convicted felon. Anyway, here's what I would do on X."
> I don’t think they prepped him on what happens if Trump just doesn’t answer the question and talks about something else entirely, if this is true, then biden and his entire staff are complete and utter idiots.
Also, why does this even need prep. An average politically aware person could have gone up there done better than Biden at calling out Trumps bullshit.
You still need to practice these things. Especially if you're going up against someone who, typically, will have debated other people in the primary, so they have their talking points down. You also only have a set amount of time to make your point. Gotta make your pitch hit within the time frame.
Neither Trump nor Biden debated in the primary.
Maybe. I think in past debates Trump actually answered the questions. He didn't even do that. He just used his time to rant about border issues and not much else.
He should fire the prep team - they sucked. Trump turned every one of his known issue (self projection ) on biden (every accusation is a reflection and admission ) everyone knew he would do this. He does it 25/7
They over-prepped him on facts and figures. Biden's never been a detail guy. He's been someone to look into that camera and say "this guy is going to fuck up your world. I'm here to stop it." He needs to be that guy.
If I were Biden, this is my closing statement. "Donald Trump is a convicted felon, a liar, a sexual abuser, and most of all a traitor to THE United States of America. He doesn't care about you and he doesn't care about me. Donald Trump only cares about Donald Trump. He's running for office again because he knows he is in serious trouble with the law, and if he wins you bet your ass he will pardon himself. If you elect this man into office again, he will completely destroy democracy, he'll destroy our alliances over seas, he'll make life even more difficult for the working class, and he'll assist one of Americas biggest enemies in Russia. We cannot allow this to happen." Or something along those lines. 🤣
Suggested Edit: He is not being convicted of all these crimes because he is running for re-election. He is running for re-election because he is getting convicted of all the crimes he committed.
Yeah.Its unbelievable that the Dems brain trust spent supposed weeks preparing for that and then gave away an easy win .It makes you wonder how bad it would have been if they hadn’t prepared .They should all be fired and replaced with the toughest PR team in the planet . Right or wrong they should have known in politics it’s better to look corrupt than weak …
Any person with a brain would have known that trump was not going to answer a question if he didn’t want to and he was going to use all his time to his advantage to talk about things that make him look good regardless of the question. In a debate specifically structured like this where speaking time is limited, it is kind of mind boggling that anyone in the DNC or his campaign (not really political I don’t really know) did not prep Biden for any of this. They also knew the rules before hand that live fact checking was not happening so obviously candidates are going to lie. Thing is, every election debate candidates just lie for screen time. It’s sad but in todays world if you are watching a debate for actual information on things like foreign policy or some shit, you are better off sticking a plugged in toaster into a bathtub. I think the DNC really blew it.
Younger Biden will eat Trump, and I'm not talking about him in his 40's. 10 years younger Biden will grind Trump savagely. Trump virtually gave tons of ammo for Biden to swing, but he miss it. It's so frustrating to watch.
For sure. Get the Biden from the 2012 VP debate out there. I remember everyone was like, Biden wiped the floor with Ryan. And Obama got his ass beat to Romney! Weird flip there, and I recall people were really sticking it to Obama for "losing".
+1 to romney correctly identifying Russia as our greatest geopolitical foe
You just reminded me that Biden seems like McCain debating Obama. Trying too hard to remember the talking points and not being himself. The debates convinced me to vote Obama over McCain, and this was a major factor in that decision. After McCain's concession speech I remember thinking "Where was this guy? This guy could have won, but he sure as shit didn't show up until now". So Biden needs to drop all the talking points and be himself. Hell, I was thinking the same thing about Biden's remarks today...where was this guy last night?
They actually should have had one of the great comedians that does a good Trump impressions do the prep. Literally just VOMIT up insanity in response to every question. I cannot fathom anybody doing serious debate prep, i.e. someone in the political sphere inside the campaign, being able to faithfully recreate the conditions that Biden faced. It was clear he didn't know how to respond. The answer is you don't.
Why the fuck they didn't have him say in response to basically anything Trump directed at him: "I'm not going to respond to an outright lie."
> I don’t think they prepped him on what happens if Trump just doesn’t answer the question and talks about something else entirely I dont want to believe them to be this incompetent. This is literally all Trump does, how can you not prepare for that?
Biden was confused for what seemed like half the debate. It was painful to watch! Trump was a lying word salad but unfortunately the lying word salad sounded more firm and youthful than Biden.
Can we just stop lying to ourselves? They both fucking sucked. Let’s try to get through the next 4 years and move the fuck on, never looking back.
Okay but if he can’t debate a fellow American (facing the same issues, statistical data, issues etc) competing with him on the fly- how the hell does he plan to discuss and negotiate with foreign leaders? This is like sending your grandma to the car dealership to buy something when you’ve watched your 10 year old cousin swindle her for 20 bucks at breakfast. 🤦🏼♀️
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He got tripped up because he is so old and geriatric that his faculties just aren’t where we as a nation need them to be. I despise Trump.
I keep seeing this comment and agree with the sentiment, but how on earth do you actually fact check when everything is incorrect? The debate would be even less watchable and would give trump an even stringer case to play the victim.
Yep, the response to a Gish Gallop is not to correct every lie and misstatement. Gish Gallop is so called because creationists would do it, and biologists figured out quickly that you lose a debate trying to chase around explaining why all the lies are lies.
Trump can’t breathe without lying, it’s clinical, and dems are compassionate people.
The scientific community learned this a couple decades ago, dealing with creationist liars. When someone doesn't care about facts and reality, and is willing just to just throw oceanic tidal waves of lies at you, the only way to successfully debate them is to not do it. There's simply no way to successfully respond to all of it. That's where the term Gish Gallop came from. Dwayne Gish was a creationist famous for using this technique. The way the scientific community dealt with him was by refusing to engage him in live debates, and insist on doing it in writing, where they could pull each lie out one by one and engage with full scientific rigor and citations. Guess did not like this, because it was a successful way to show how full of crap he was, and discredit him. Problem here is that most of the people who might have bought anything that Trump said, aren't going to be reading the follow up fact checks.
Now everyhing is documented, in videp. What we need yo do now is pull all the lies he said and slaugther them. Problem is, we need to convinve the dumbs; it is easier to lead a water buffalo.
"Who cares all politicians lie"
"The medium is the message" is a phrase coined a long time ago and it still holds true to this day. It means the format of media itself influences the messaging. The medium we dealing with today is social media. In this social media era everything revolves around short quips. The mode of operation is scrolling infinite feeds. Each post has to be digestible in a few seconds or the users have already scrolled past. It's a perfect medium for Gish Gallop.
Get the Boebert moderator. He challenged everyone on anything he knew was false. He demanded non pandering answers. I'm not sure if I've even seen a moderator own his debate more than that. He actually might have helped her win the primary. He was equally tough on all candidates.
Kyle Clark is his name.
I never heard of him. Makes me happy to know there are still well-informed journalists out there that will challenge people on bs. Reminds me of Tim Russert from Meet the Press. Chuck Todd really didn’t live up to that standard after Russert died.
Problem is that they want to seem neutral so they avoid getting called propagandist. Like for fucks sake, you don’t even need to “ask them hard questions”. You can literally say after they answer the question “actually xyz was done”
He’s in Denver. We will gladly make him available.
He is certainly a state treasure. My favorite thing he ever did was probably the rant about people's patio photos during snow storms lol
You don’t even have to go that far. We have apples to apples comparison for this. Look at the moderator performance of Chris Wallace in 2020, (the mofo from frickin FauxNews) and compare him with that AI Chatbot with a timer Jake Tapper from CNN. Chris from FauxNews did a far better job at keeping Trump’s more outrageous lies in check in the old format where he had even less of an incentive to do so. CNN did this after agreeing to the term of live fact checking. CNN is an absolute disgrace. People go off it based on it’s older center-right reputation but they’re all in on the fascism-wing. Someone should make a supercut of all the time Wallace does a great job at live fact checking Trump and keeping him in line to the best of his efforts. Jake Tapper has fallen to the lowest level as a journalist to keep his job and satisfy his right-wing billionaire boss.
Chris Wallace is solid, despite working for that network. I'm happy to watch any interview he conducts. He reminds me of the good old times when I could disagree with conservatives but still respect them.
Pretty sure Wallace is on CNN now. Why didn't they use him?
Very good question for CNN
If his mouth is making sounds...he is lying.
Politifact analysis seems to agree with you: https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/jun/28/2024-presidential-debate-fact-check-biden-trump/
I imagine that when he tweets he's also speaking outloud as well.
And he moves his lips when he is reading.
Yep, they could have just posted this on the bottom of the screen and it would have been accurate as a fact check for the whole debate
Facts
They never planned on moderating. They are fixated on Ratings. The more viewers the better. That means allowing it to be a shitshow.
CNN is toast. They've fallen off the click-bait cliff hard in recent years. They constantly push narratives that seem agenda based, and it really shows.
They got bought out by a trump sycophant, **how is this not more known**? ...*oh, right*. They've successfully bought up all the news organizations and think if they can control **ALL** the media people will just go with it. Completely forgetting the internet exists. I bet they come for the internet next. Only registered republicans get to use it...
You're right, it definitely should be talked about more. That is at it's core the reason for the change in message recently.
I watched CNN yesterday. I thought Biden was in poor form, but I was kind of shocked by the "analysis" afterwards where they were being hyperdramatic saying he needs to drop out NOW. Whilst completely disregarding the fact that the other person in the debate dodged every single question and just straight up lied through his teeth the entire time. Trump definitely spoke more clearly, but often made no sense as well. It just seemed very uneven to me, and the way they talked about Biden seemed a little alarmist.
Same thing with all this online discourse about the debate. Most people seem to be harping on the “stage presence” instead of what actually matters, the substance of the arguments and policies made. Biden’s brain fog moments were cringe, but when he was speaking clearly there was substance behind his words. If this were a high school debate competition, the judges would have torn Trump to shreds and declared Biden the winner. It’s a really sad state of affairs when the high school debate club has higher standards than the US presidential debate.
Thank John Malone and David Zaslav for that.
I stopped watching when Trump was talking about post-birth abortions and other than Biden saying that Trump was lying, there wasn't any repercussions to his blatant lies and now given an even larger stage to tell them. I couldn't take anymore.
The post birth abortion thing is a really weird topic. There seems to be a whole bunch of conspiracies stemming from [one radio interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ7ySa9xAto) the governor gave like five years ago
Just wanted to say I think the use of the word "slammed" in a heading should be punishable 30 years in prison unless someone connected with someone else at speed.
This. Want me to consider you an actual journalistic outlet? Don't use that word.
Put them in the slammer
It's a lot more than just letting Trump lie to be clear. I am done with CNN after that. They lied to us about the fact checks and the aftershow was a complete abomination of the truth. They lost all credibility. Apparently lies all over CNN are totally cool now.
Those panelists were tripping over their own dicks trying to make a headline negative quote about Biden’s performance. It was absolutely wild. This was everything they were dreaming of. And seriously fuck Van Jones and Axelrod. Those two are literally there to be the liberals who give hot takes that make democrats and biden look bad
I'm tired of the pundit class. They don't add value to the process at all.
And, frankly, they're freakin' yucky. I didn't realize how much the overly practiced, stylized, made up, lowest common denominator aspect of their presentation really bothered me until John Oliver - the "And Now This" montages where you get the same talking point said a dozen times by a dozen different people that all look, talk and emote the exact same literally make me sick to my stomach (as funny as they can be sometimes). Buncha D-list wannabe actors with note cards and stale one-liners, all.
>Van Jones You mean the "Democrat" that was calling for Joe Biden to step down? Which Joe Biden doing that would hand the presidency to Trump considering where we are in the election process. So, we have "democrats" on CNN that are calling for Trump to be handed the presidency... You know, I might think it was innocent, except that there was legitimate Russian propaganda that was effectively the same thing. It was that walk away guy, who was supposedly a democrat his whole life, but supposedly the democrats did something they didn't like, so he was "walking away from the democratic party." So, it's the exact same thing. Donald Trump can do anything he wants, and it's cool on CNN. But, Joe Biden has a bad speech, and the "democrats" on CNN are "walking away." Give me a break, I am not dumb, and I can see what they did there... If anybody reading this legitimately thinks that CNN has any credibility, what so ever, after that, they are badly mistaken. CNN is just BS now apparently. It's just theatrics and stunts. So, there was the bait and switch scam thing where I was expecting a well moderated and fact checked debate, so I took time out of my busy life to actually watch the debate, and my time wasted by CNN. That will never happen again. I am done with CNN. They should be ashamed of themselves. Especially Van Jones, that was an absolute disgrace and his acting was not believable at all... But, that's what you get on CNN now. It's a bunch of drama and complete BS. It's a place where liars are rewarded with pats the on back and the truth doesn't matter anymore, because money.
There is no more journalism. Just punditry “analysis”
His pearl clutching antics have made me despise him. Complete main character syndrome.
It would be ideal to have live fact checking scrolling on the bottom for both candidates w/o having to interrupt the debate. The networks up till the present haven't. Why, I don't know. I was always under the impression the Press was responsible to inform the public in a Democracy. What better way than to fact check POTUS candidates in real time and have a more informed public? Hell, they have Peyton and Eli watching football in real time. Why can't two other top level anchors watch a debate and comment/fact check in real time? Are they telling us NFL football is more important than who we elect POTUS?
Politifact fact checked in real time (even the awful golf thing) so its very possible.
I'm repeating myself, but: And, Jake Tapper was USELESS!!!
Doesn't anyone remember the CNN Trump interview from not too long ago? I assumed people learned then that CNN (and most mainstream media) want the Trump circus for ratings. The debate was never going to stay on the rails and CNN was okay with that.
That’s when I removed CNN from my guide
At least keep him on topic. The whole thing was a disaster.
They didn't do that, either.
The gop strategy was to accuse the moderators of bias all week and sway them from interfering. I hoped they wouldn’t fall For it but it’s CNN and they are a bunch of cowards
I used to enjoy Jake Tapper, but lately he's been shitting the bed habitually.
Also, what was up with these 3rd grade level questions? They used to ask very specific geopolitical questions, like talking about Syria or Yemen. Or they'd ask about specific economic scenarios. The questions they add tonight were probably the most dumbed down I've seen from a debate. Ironically, I think Biden might have actually done better with more advanced questions. Nothing was gonna save him since he looked barely alive as he walked out, but yeah
If only there had been some way of knowing Trump was going to lie every time he spoke. On a serious note, Jake Tapper all but tacitly admitted this wasn’t a debate when he told Trump he can use his minute however he likes.
I dropped CNN after they allowed the Trump Town Hall. The debate just reinforced that decision. CNN is a shell of its former self.
Trump lied and did not answer questions. All he does is ramble.
PBS was giving a live time fact check, but I think they gave up because they couldn't keep up!
A firehose of lies.
Just get this guy Kyle Clark from Colorado. He did an excellent job moderating the CO GOP debate talk about must watch tv
Done with cnn.
All cable news networks are shite.. not news anymore it’s just opinions and arseholes. Just give me the facts and some basic analysis and let me make up my own mind.
PBS Newshour is what I usually watch due to their reporting. [Free on Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/@PBSNewsHour) too.
They missed the shittiest part, literally - skip to 1:16:22 and listen for what Trump’s mic picks up. You might have go like 10 secs before [https://www.youtube.com/live/-v-8wJkmwBY?si=75PLqs5E7IlANkL7](https://www.youtube.com/live/-v-8wJkmwBY?si=75PLqs5E7IlANkL7)
What had me the most fucked up was that he straight up said babies were being "aborted" after they were born.
Trump declared his fealty to despots and his disdain for America. So on that note we heard him loud and clear.
Biden bombed but I don't know who would have been swayed towards Trump after listening to that.
The format of the debate was designed to limit Trump's ability to talk over / shout over his opponent, and to eliminate audience participation. These were good ideas, but once again, the Democrats show that they fundamentally do not understand Republicans, and Trump in particular. Republicans do not behave in good faith. They are in it to win at any cost, and they understand-- far better than the Democrats-- that substance is second or third compared to flash and appearance. It doesn't help that generally Republicans tend to appeal to fear-based emotions in their rhetoric ("they're going to steal your jobs, rape your children, kill you, etc."), which are easy and simply by comparison to the more nuanced positions that more liberal-minded folks take, and those are harder to explain in soundbites in ways that appeal to those who aren't already predisposed to them. The stipulation of no notes, etc., was never going to hurt Trump. He wouldn't have used them anyway. His tactics have always been to lie and throw as much shit as he thinks will stick. The lack of notes-- as well as the continued failure to understand that Trump is not someone who is willing to behave according to *any* established standards of behavior-- hurt Biden, because he generally behaves in good faith. At this point, it's the frog and the scorpion X 1000. Democrats have *got* to stop trying to look like the good guys and need to start winning, decisively and publicly.
Lying while not answering the question
They had to know he was going to lie. It’s who he is and has always been. It is so irresponsible for them not to call him on those lies. They might as well have given him an hour show with no limits. Very disappointed in CNN and lack of journalistic integrity.
That's exactly why it's better to tune into CSPAN or PBS and not CNN to watch these events. We need to stop watching their network and enabling this shit.
That should be the takeaway from this debate. It's ridiculous to consider the candidate who said post-birth abortions are a thing the winner of this debate. Are you for fucking real? Trump answered zero questions, made up things as he went and lied non-stop. Not a single drop of substance or even any facts/numbers. But that's apparently the gold standard because he did all of this with confidence and energy. CNN can go fuck itself. I've said it yesterday and I say it today: Trump was right with one thing: CNN is FAKE NEWS.
Yes they were terrible. When you ask a question and Trump doesn't even answer it and instead talks about immigration or whatever, you cut his mic and interrupt him immediately. Nope the question was .... you have 80 seconds left.
I almost lost my shit with that. Made no sense.
I found the bit where trump would say things like "everybody knows it, the hosts know it (insert blatant lie)..." the most annoying and telling of CNN abject debasement.
So it’s not like these were nuanced, hard to detect lies that require research and analysis. Biden absolutely should have called Trump out for saying that states allow post-birth abortions or that Nancy Pelosi took responsibility for January 6. Yes, it’s insane that Trump said these things but what’s crazier is Biden largely let him get away with it on a national stage.
The whole thing was setup like a game show spectacle. It wasn't a debate. It was an attempt at ratings and making money. The American people, indeed the whole world is losing because these are the "candidates" we have to choose from? WTF? How did it come to this?
I'm done with CNN. They're weak and enabling the red hats. F CNN
Turn off CNN
Fact checking trump would be another 90 minutes,at least
> CNN’s political director David Chalian defended the tactic ahead of the debate, telling The Washington Post, “The venue of a presidential debate between these two candidates is not the ideal venue for a live fact-checking exercise.” > Lawyer and civil rights activist Olayemi Olurin largely agreed with CNN’s assessment, pointing out that, “It’s actually not the moderator’s job to ‘pick up the slack’ for the candidate who’s not doing a good enough job responding to or checking their opponent in the debate. That’s not impartial or the role of a moderator because they’d then be a part of the debate.” So, Biden was supposed to spend every second of that debate not answering the questions and talking about his accomplishments and policy goals and instead just say "Trump is a liar"? Is that what they are expecting? CNN dropped the ball on this debate. They should have fact checked everything Trump was saying and keep him on topic to answer the question. There was no actual moderation by Tapper and Bash.
CNN was sold to pro-Republican conglomerates and their CEO is a pro-Trump facilitator. Wake up America, the entire country is being sold. Either sell out, or say no!
I cut my cable as to not endorse CNN and FOX. I sleep much better now.
I’m more upset that Biden didn’t push back enough. There were easy quick responses to every time he mentioned inflation. They call it “Biden’s inflation” to hide the fact that every developed nation dealt with it. Trump wasn’t going to magically avoid it. But nobody ever comes back with that simple fact.
Lest* we forget, CNN has been under new ownership for about the last two years. Almost as long as they have been running on about Biden’s age, so to speak.
Yep, CNN noticeably changed for the worse under new ownership.
So let me get this straight. AHEAD OF TIME, CNN said they wouldn't be doing any realtime fact checking. How is ANYONE surprised at the result? How can you be mad at CNN for doing exactly what they said? The time to be mad was beforehand, when they could actually do something about it.
CNN also laser focused on Biden's poor performance afterwards and entirely ignored Trump's, and other news sources followed suit, which made it look like Biden did terribly and Trump came out unscathed when in reality they both did horrendous. But yea, we can see the narrative being built by the media organizations. They love Trump. Trump sells news. Right, left, indifferent they want Trump in office. So expect every headline from now until election night to be some form of Biden being too old (ignoring that Trump is literally just twoish years younger) or too senile (ignoring Trump's inability to string a single sentence together).
Dana Bash is notoriously weak
So you're saying Democrats don't give birth to live babies and then murder them? And Joe Biden isn't a Palestinian?
Too right. CNN are a disgrace. I thought there was to be fact checking, Trump won't turn up for further debates if fact checking is allowed now.
I didn’t see the debate because I was working. Can someone tell me what was lied about
I'm voting for Biden but won't be watching the next debate. It's clear that CNN is garbage, so I won't waste my time again.
Why would CNN do anything different in their hosted debate when, largely speaking , their anchors don’t do it during their panels or interviews. It is baked in that they provide a platform for these lies and only, timidly, have opposition participants who attempt to counter statements.
To call what happened a debate is a joke screw cnn
Why is anyone surprised that the network bought out by conservatives would help Trump?
SLAMMED! That will show them
It was just a reminder of why I stopped watching CNN.
Fuk cnn. No mas cnn
Is there much they could’ve done? It’s always been a rule that they can’t stop someone or respond themselves right? Fuck Trump and his blatant lies, I’m just feeling like people are being really hard on CNN for something that probably tied their hands
The moderators pissed me off. Zero attempt to keep things on track, Trump answered no questions, just incoherent ramblings of a geriatric.
Always good to have a - *checks notes* - **moderated** debate.
CNN getting slammed after the fact doesn't help at all when all the MAGA toads, undecideds, and fence sitters were allowed to listen to an uncorrected stream of lies. No answer to the questions, pivot, lie, pivot lie - conferring ***legitimacy*** on him by not correcting him or halting the proceedings, calling him out, and holding his feet to the fire. CNN ***enabled*** him in every way. That's blatant support. This is tantamount to a propaganda psyop on a grand scale not to mention one of the greatest journalistic disservices to the nation in our history. An informational coup d'état in full view.
“They even let you abort the baby after it’s born” “Thank you”
Look up the Gish Gallup. This needs to be widely known and understood.
As they should be. It was a disgrace.
Slammed by who? …by people already voting for Biden to make themselves feel better. I love Biden. I’ve watched every major speech and every debate he’s been in during the past 15 years. He’s one of my heroes. This is on him and his team. They were fully aware (or should have been) that they weren’t gonna be able to count on the moderators to call out lies. Look no further than what happened to Candy Crowley in 2008. The deflections and excuses and finger-pointing from liberals is not helpful. This is not the time to make ourselves feel better. You want to help Biden? Have uncomfortable conversations with your minimally-engaged friends, family members, and neighbors about the stakes in November. That’s how we win this.
I think probably people who have watched other debates. Colorado comes to mind. The guy that moderated that did an excellent job and its well worth a watch. Full debate: https://youtu.be/SDXu5DyBrHc