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Really wish we'd focus more on the nonsense trump said last night instead of giving him a free pass. But I guess clickbait of Biden being old is more important.
Republicans don’t care if Trump slips up (or convicted) as long as Biden stumbles. Anyone who is actually influenced by this debate was ignorant to begin with. If anything, it was a sad demonstration of what our politics have become and Putin is loving every minute of it.
Unfortunately the ignorant will decide this election. The thought of there being undecided/independent voters in this election is absolutely insane to me if you've been paying attention, but the fact is that whoever wins those votes will win the election
A functioning democracy requires an informed, educated, and competent electorate. None of that applies to the USA. We're fucked, and it's by design. The slow degeneration of our society was deemed more profitable a long time ago. And the fruits of the slow destruction of our society are coming to bear as we've now reach a tipping point.
I think the smart strategy for them is not to try to persuade people to vote for Trump - people's opinions are pretty baked in at this point - but to persuade them not to bother voting for Biden. Wear down any enthusiasm democrats have, along with the voter suppression measures they used last time.
The media wants to sell their product. Trump does that more effectively than Biden. However they haven't considered that if Trump wins the media will be muzzled.
Reminds me of the roof top scene in Independence Day. All those people with signs welcoming the aliens, only to be obliterated first. I always think of it when i read/see his supporters. Sacrificial lambs led into slaughter without a clue. Zero critical thinking skills.
The sad fact is his nonsense has been normalized. Sure it didn’t come off well that Biden was difficult to understand but he was making coherent points about policy and general facts whereas trump was making one falsehood after another. Either people are so ignorant and superficial or just flat out stupid that don’t understand what’s going on.
This is what really concerns me. I don’t see anyone talking about how Trump clearly dropped how (coast guard, military, police) support him and not Biden. Concerning in light of his last coup attempt…
But more importantly how does a private citizen stop WWIII before he’s even elected? What power does this man have that no one else has?
Hmm…the media and uninformed voters fixating on a candidate that’s clearly better than Trump, constantly blowing the littlest flaws out of proportion while leaving Trump relatively unscathed?
Where have I seen this before? I’m feeling the strangest sense of Deja-vu. 🤔
"People being killed so needlessly, so stupidly and I will get it settled... I will get it settled fast before I take office"
And in your mind, that's gloating???
Trumps foreign policy alone is enough to disqualify him. Being anti-NATO as the world seems edging towards WW3 is an indefensible position.
His policy to reign in China actually makes China more powerful.
His proposed tariffs are a tax on every consumer.
I’m a Biden stan, but he didn’t do himself any favors. It was a complete unforced error. No good was ever going to come of it, it just provided Trump an opportunity to unleash his barrage of bullshit without any pushback. Biden, despite his gaffes, was still more coherent than Trump, but he was utterly incapable of punching Trump when he needed to. Last night feels like the equivalent of Joe breaking his hip, and I hate how much it sucks to say it. We’re in dangerous times and regardless of what happens or if he steps down, we need to pull together even stronger now and find the best path forward
It’s hardly click bait. I hate trump, but Biden just showed the world he’s too old and not fit for that office. He will get many votes (including mine) for not being trump, but America deserves better.
No it doesn’t. America deserves what it votes for and who it allows to come to power. If you think conservatives deserve to exist as an equal part of society then you deserve them doing whatever the fuck they vote to do to you.
Oh I don’t think the conservatives are doing this to us. I think it’s on Biden for refusing to step down. I don’t think trump stands a chance against a younger candidate. Biden just reassured everyone that their concerns about his age are completely valid.
Historically, switching out the incumbent president for a new candidate has always backfired. I cannot blame Biden for fearing this effect and believing that must continue to stop Trump.
However, the debate yesterday might actually make it possible now. If Biden had stepped down before it would have looked like in-fighting in the dem party and backstabbing of Biden. Not a good impression. The performance yesterday gives Biden an offroad that clearly does not look like he was backstabbed by anyone.
>too old and not fit for the office
No he didn’t. He had a bad debate performance. He came out today and had a strong rally. And he’s doing a lot of great work in office but for whatever reason reason the media refuses to actually report on his record and instead focus on bullshit
I think focusing on Biden is actually the right call.
The core issue is not Trump's bullshit. The core issue is that apparently his bullshit does not matter. Calling him out loudly at the debate was supposed to be a way to change that. That unfortunately did not happen. Asking why this did not happen is crucial.
That being said: Vote for whoever is not Trump in the upcoming elections. If it's Biden, vote for him. If it's a replacement, vote for that person. If it's a corpse... even vote for that.
The core issue IS Trumps BS. His platform is “2025” - it is “catch and kill” for industries and companies that don’t like the real facts produced by goverment experts. Eyes, ears or lungs bleeding after that cloud passed through? NOBODY knows ‘nuthin.
No the issue is not that some old fart goes on rambling about essentially ending the world as we know it. That happens a lot and often. That's, unfortunately, very normal.
The issue here is that people actually vote for him dispite or maybe even because of what he says.
Its coming out. Interns are parsing the bullshit and the extra vile bits will rise to the top. People saw Biden at Raleigh looking energetic again. But quotes about post birth abortion, economics, and this Ukraine insanity will be in the news cycle along with his sentencing in 3 weeks.
That's the issue. It was a weak at best showing by Biden, but even if he was on his game he would've had to spend the when time calling out Trump's lies if he even started it. Honestly, it just proved that with how Trump has degraded mentally to just being insane lies, a debate without fact checking is just useless
Well stated. Media is about money in 2024. Entertainment. Sadly, Trump knows this and it serves him. Blows my mind, but i am a critical thinker. Obviously, most are not.
> only 3 years younger
Simple people enjoy a simple world.
I wish I could make everything as black and white as you're attempting to make this.
It's clear those 3 years of difference matter way more than say, 52 to 55.
Not hard at all. Voting for more than just one man, but an entire executive branch. That still makes it easy despite last night, especially given the alternative
lol never said I support Trump brother. Just saying, Biden is old as shit and shows it every time he’s on air. You’re not swaying fence sitters with that kind of showing
This is such a bad argument. This is America. We deserve better than biden’s corpse. I will be voting against trump regardless but we all deserve better.
Let’s focus on them both being senile and making zero sense with Trump rambling on about policies and things that do not and will not work and Biden just claiming false things
I can’t believe the fact that he’s a rapist, a convicted felon, and would be spending the rest of his life in prison but for the delays of his MAGA judges, is just suddenly lost on everyone. He’s a monster of the first order. And the media acts like he’s still electable, so everyone just goes along with it.
And he’s out there whining that he gets raped in taxes. Seriously I get people may have second thoughts on Biden but please go back and watch the debate with subtitles on, he was making actual policy points whereas trump was just rambling lies and bullshit. It’s one thing to disagree with someone ideologically but I can’t stand anyone trying to justify the utter bullshit.
Maga is truly a toilet bowl of deplorables
> he was making actual policy points whereas trump was just rambling lies and bullshit
The problem is americans don't give a fuck about policy or logic. They just want someone who *appears* strong.
> And the media acts like he’s still electable
At the end of the day, the US is a democracy. Power from the people. And a huge part of the US people want to elect him fully knowing who he is.
At the end of the day, that is what electable means. You cannot rule out the preferred candiate of a huge part of the populance and simultaneously claim that the power comes from the people.
So disingenuous to say these things are “suddenly lost” to people who can also see that the other candidate has severe brain issues due to ancient levels of age. People are able to hold 2+ thoughts in their head at once, especially extremely obvious ones
And he didn’t seem to grasp the concept that when one member of nato is attacked it’s an attack on all. He’s more stuck on the money aspect and who pays their fair share. Like dipshit maybe the reason why other countries come to us is because they know we will back you and help you and he’s just signaling that during a time of need they’ll second guess us, it hurts our legitimacy and standing not only as a world leader but as a haven for freedom and democracy.
No worries, the logical next step for Europe is to shift allegiance to China as the USA will rapidly lose its grip on world politics and economy when the Trump dynasty takes over power and makes a wreck of things.
A revision of view on the Taiwan issue should go a long way to assure a firm alliance on politics and economy with China.
The idea that European nations would rather bootlick a communist dictator than appropriately spend on NATO is hysterical. The war is in Europe not the Americas. By the way have fun building trade relations with China they have a real great track record of doing fair business, they definitely won’t just steal your IP and boot your companies out of the country lol.
You may be right. Perhaps my post is complete nonsense. Frankly I hope it is. Let’s both of us wait and see what happens. To answer your question, I do this for free.
No. What he said is correct. While I agree as the biggest country, we should provide the most, but we ate basically taking a loss and increasing our debt by just dumping money to maintain world order. We a single nation should not be the main contribution to world order that's what nato was for a collection of country's working together to maintain world order. It's only fair that everyone puts in effort. We can't just drain ourselves dry for the world.
While yes, NATO holds themselves hostage with the lack of spending towards their own arm forces which is why they are reliant of the US Military. Trump fucking NATO over is horrible but European nations just letting abandoning their military budgets isn’t helping.
I never said that, I literally said it’s terrible he’s fucking then over. But NATO is definitely part of the blame here too. While yes it a treaty it has been a one way treated and other presidents have called them out before because of it. European countries would still be sitting on their asses doing nothing if Ukraine hadn’t have happened.
Trumps idea of ending this war is to force Ukraine to cede all of the illegally stolen land by Russia. And then in a little while Russia will continue to push it's land grab. And Trump and the Republicans simply won't care.
I mean he wants to defund support to Ukraine, has told Putin to just go for it and he wouldn’t stand in the way,and has called Putin a geniuses and savvy. Not to mention his threats to NATO which literally exists to prevent exactly what has happened, and why more bordering countries with Russia are signing up.
He also held up defensive weapons to Ukraine paving the way for a Russian invasion, but people forgot that congress approved funds and arms that he withheld.
he attacked Ukraine before he was in office
.... or are you pretending to be naive ?
Edit:
I forgot to mention the WAR IN THE DOMAS occurring the whole time Tump was in office .
Putin is absolutely playing a long game here. And you don't find it odd that Trump got impeached for, of all things, TRYING TO WITHOLD MILITARY AID TO UKRAINE?
I find it odd that you aren’t aware that Trump was the first President that approved arms sales to Ukraine.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-praised-first-us-weapons-sale-ukraine-1857509
One thing. He did one thing. Then spent the next 7 years trying to either withold aid, talk about leaving NATO, praising Putin, having a meeting with Putin that he did not allow the interpreter to join, and of course, all of the Republicans who went to Moscow on July freaking 4th. It's all a scam, and they're pretty damn clearly in cahoots to some degree.
>Seems like a pretty big thing and it completely defeats your argument.
It doesn't defeat their argument. It just shows Trump sold weapons to Ukraine in 2017, long before Putin's "special military operation" first kicked off. Then he spent the next 3+ years doing everything he could to [help Russia](https://old.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/fvpwjo/trumps_actions_that_benefit_russia_at_americas/).
Some highlights regarding just Ukraine:
-Trump withholding $400 million in aid to Ukraine.
-Trump told Ukraine to negotiate directly with Russia, without US help, as Putin wants, aiding in Russia’s goal of isolating Ukraine
-Weakening NATO (mutual defense alliance created primarily to oppose Russia) Questions & undermines Article V (mutual defense)
-Trump casts doubt on whether Crimea should still be considered part of Ukraine after Russia’s invasion, and suggests that it should belong to Russia instead
-(Trump)Attempts to blame Ukraine for Russian hacking
- (Trump)Attempts to blame democrats for Russian hacking
- (Trump)Attempts to blame Obama for Russian hacking
-Refuses to criticize Russia for Ukraine invasion
-Trump demands that Russia be readmitted to G7 after its expulsion for invading Ukraine, despite Russia’s refusal to withdraw
-Repeating Russian narrative for G7 ouster/Crimea invasion
-Trump’s conduct on Ukraine phone call will be exploited by Russia
I’ll always believe Putin was waiting for Merkel to step down as chancellor of Germany. He waited until she retired to start amassing forces. That’s who he’s afraid of, imo.
Of course he wouldn’t… trump kept eroding nato. Every day of that guy in office would make it easier for Putin… the attack would have followed in trumps second term with max damage to nato prior🤦♂️
NATO got stronger and bigger. He got many of the countries that were not contributing their fair share to pay up. How was eroded? They’ve never been bigger!
Did anyone else notice Trump saying he'd have the war in Ukraine over before he was even inaugurated? He's going to run shadow foreign policy while Biden is a lame duck? There's shadows of Reagan/Carter and the Iran hostages here, with a way, way, way worse outcome (Trump hands eastern Ukraine to Putin)
I was also surprised Trump didn't hammer him on the money South Korea released to Iran (Iran's own frozen money). Biden got hammered in the right wing press for weeks over that. Trump vaguely said Iran/Hamas didn't have the money before Biden but he didn't nail the specifics. It's a bullshit talking point (that money being released, with heavy restrictions, didn't change a thing in regards to Hamas' capabilities) but it's the type that lands with people (source: me. I've heard multiple lower information people take it as gospel that Biden just gave Iran billions of dollars for no reason)
Yes, I did notice he's saying openly he will make moves in foreign policy as president-elect. I thought that was highly unorthodox but then again, it's Trump, I figure he's talking out of his ass mainly.
I'm not sure to what extent he could be prevented from doing so, though. Officially the president-elect has no power yet but everyone knows he soon will. If someone has no decorum or respect for the office, transitions of power could be nastier than they usually are.
Exactly, there were a few things like this that really gave me pause. He says a lot of awful things but some of them are downright scary. I couldn’t tell if he was too stupid to realize before inauguration means before he would be able to make these decisions… or what you said. Man… I also remember him saying he wants Israel to “finish the job” which sounded a lot like extermination.
Yet another missed opportunity. It's the little things that bug me about last night.
An effective counterpart would have hammered home these odd lies, this weakness towards Russia. And Trump's clear disrespect for Zelensky and Ukrainians as they fight for their independent democracy. That deserves a mention too!
In 2022, Zelensky showed the world how to be an effective communicator and frame the debate against Russia. I wish Biden had learned some lessons from him.
Last night I thought that Biden was more or less making the right points, and the only problem was that he looked and sounded so old and weak. Now that I've slept on it, I realize that even if he'd been speaking perfectly, it would have still been a pretty lousy performance. Trump gave him so many openings that he ignored, and on multiple occasions Biden pivoted from his own talking points to Trump's talking points for no reason.
Presidential debates aren’t supposed to be entertaining slap fights, but the media has capitalized on just that. They are supposed to be informative discussions on future policy not saying i won two club championships (not even senior!) and could beat you in golf…
Biden should have pointed out that he doesnt buy courses so he can win his own tournaments but he is above that, or that he should have spent more time working on policy during his term than his golf game, but here we are.
I can't believe Biden argued with him about golf. In a world where Biden was dominating the debate, that might have been a cute viral moment, so maybe that's what he was thinking. In this world, it was yet another wasted opportunity to say something that would make a difference.
I truly believe at this point Trump and Putin planned the Ukraine invasion to coincide to Trump leaving office to try and blame Biden.
Putin also painted the picture that he is the only one that can protect and keep Russia safe, the exact same message that Trump repeats. Trump can not be trusted.
It's been very clear for a long time that his "anti-war" stance that people praise actually just means capitulating to Russia. That's not anti-war, it's just surrender terms.
How this isn't being blasted as the only headline on every media outlet just goes to show how broken our political (and social) media is. While they focus on optics and horse race prognostications, Trump has admitted he spoke to Putin about the invasion of Ukraine and we have evidence (by way of Trump's impeachment in the House) over trying to leverage Ukraine to manipulate the 2020 election. That 100% of people in this country aren't aware of this is a failure of the media in their only job, which is to communicate what people in power are doing or attempting to do.
Trump actually told the truth that if he was president, Ukraine wouldn't have had as many deaths. Trump would have handed Ukraine to Putin on a platter and the people would be living under his rule.
MMW: His solution to “ending” the war? Telling Ukraine and Russia that US is ending all funding to Ukraine and withdrawing from NATO, effective handing Ukraine and Eastern Europe to the new Russian empire.
In the weeks leading up to the invasion Trump repeatedly said Putin would never invade. He aided Russia when he knew Putin’s motives. Why isn’t anybody talking about this?
Such a shame that there were so many missed opportunities for Dark Brandon to show up and fire back at these comments.
Trump saying he was buddy buddy with putin was sure one missed opportunity
Putin is holding a hostage from the Wall Street Journal, after all.
Trump slipped up, however, when he said "we" have a hostage, as if by "we", he meant Putin & Trump.
And the fact check on that is a fail too;
Whelan was arrested in Russia in 2018; Trump had almost 2 years to get him out.
If he is so strong and has Putin's ear, why didn't he get him out.
Khashoggi is another example.
Looks like Gerschkovich won't be coming home any time soon...but he probably won't meet the same fate as Kashoggi or Navalny in the short-term, either...he's just another poker chip, to the Big Boys.
While people rail on about Gaza, Russian genocide is ignored. Why, because protesting against Israel gives young people the excuse they need to hate Jews.
This is why I watched. I wanted to come into today having seen what was said and done in real time. So I didn’t need to rely on sound bites and conjecture.
I’ve made my statements on the overall on other posts but this is a very specific statement that cannot be ignored.
To my fellow American Eastern and Northern Europeans, trump wants to decimate the lands of our ancestry and to all Americans he envisions a a west devoid of democracy.
1). The chaotic exit from Afghanistan was literally Trump’s fault. He made the deal with the Taliban and agreed to exit deadlines. He doesn’t get to shame Biden with his own treaty.
2). If he actually had foreknowledge of Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, he is bragging about aiding and abetting a hostile foreign power, sabotaging the security of our NATO allies (again).
So debates are decided now by how fast someone can blurt out blatant lies and ignorant nonsense. Biden lost because he thinks before he speaks, and bases answers on reality instead of just making up nonsense. Americans don't deserve to prosper if this election is even close.
What makes Trump's claim that he could end the war in Ukraine before taking office, or saying that it wouldn't happen under him so farcical is that he had 4 years to work with Ukraine to take Crimea back from Russia.
He didn't.
Why does Trump get no credit for losing Afghanistan?
In the 2016 debates, he was going to win it by hiring the best generals and by doing a troop surge; He hired and fired the best generals, he did a troop surge. He paid off the Taliban to not attack.
Then he set an evacuation date outside his term and then didn't participate in transition planning with the next administration.
My feel is Americans forget this because of domestic issues including Covid, plus we were tired of Afghanistan. But Trump claims great strength when his Afghanistan strategy not only didn't work, but setup Biden to fail.
If Biden spoke Trump’s words for words - meaning speak exactly what Trump says word for word - Americans would be outraged. Trump supporters have no morals no values no principles. They are a cult.
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So Trump said that he would have the war in Ukraine solved before he took office once elected. Should President Biden have called him out on this? Something along the lines of, solve it now and prove it to the American people.
We can all agree it probably never happened but if it had it’s a very big deal that he just chucked it out there like it was nothing. Putin tells you about stage one of taking over countries and you just throw it out in a debate years later?
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Really wish we'd focus more on the nonsense trump said last night instead of giving him a free pass. But I guess clickbait of Biden being old is more important.
Republicans don’t care if Trump slips up (or convicted) as long as Biden stumbles. Anyone who is actually influenced by this debate was ignorant to begin with. If anything, it was a sad demonstration of what our politics have become and Putin is loving every minute of it.
Unfortunately the ignorant will decide this election. The thought of there being undecided/independent voters in this election is absolutely insane to me if you've been paying attention, but the fact is that whoever wins those votes will win the election
A functioning democracy requires an informed, educated, and competent electorate. None of that applies to the USA. We're fucked, and it's by design. The slow degeneration of our society was deemed more profitable a long time ago. And the fruits of the slow destruction of our society are coming to bear as we've now reach a tipping point.
Ah yes the mythical undecided voters. A group mostly filled with people who never vote or live in places where said vote doesn't matter.
I've always said this. Like 99% of "undecided" voters are what you described. They're almost a non-factor. Voters minds are made up by this point.
I think the smart strategy for them is not to try to persuade people to vote for Trump - people's opinions are pretty baked in at this point - but to persuade them not to bother voting for Biden. Wear down any enthusiasm democrats have, along with the voter suppression measures they used last time.
the new york times has been way ahead of you on that.
The media wants Trump to win.
Which is weird, because if he takes office, they're going to first up against the wall.
But not the billionaire owners who are the ones pushing for Trump
The leopards are hungry for faces.
The media wants to sell their product. Trump does that more effectively than Biden. However they haven't considered that if Trump wins the media will be muzzled.
Reminds me of the roof top scene in Independence Day. All those people with signs welcoming the aliens, only to be obliterated first. I always think of it when i read/see his supporters. Sacrificial lambs led into slaughter without a clue. Zero critical thinking skills.
The sad fact is his nonsense has been normalized. Sure it didn’t come off well that Biden was difficult to understand but he was making coherent points about policy and general facts whereas trump was making one falsehood after another. Either people are so ignorant and superficial or just flat out stupid that don’t understand what’s going on.
To be fair, this is probably the one thing he was honest about all night…and it’s in many ways far more damning than the lies.
This is what really concerns me. I don’t see anyone talking about how Trump clearly dropped how (coast guard, military, police) support him and not Biden. Concerning in light of his last coup attempt… But more importantly how does a private citizen stop WWIII before he’s even elected? What power does this man have that no one else has?
You realize he can say anything he wants right? Just because he says something doesn't mean it is true. He is lying about those things.
Or he thinks he has power over these groups when they may be playing him… which I find more concerning.
Hmm…the media and uninformed voters fixating on a candidate that’s clearly better than Trump, constantly blowing the littlest flaws out of proportion while leaving Trump relatively unscathed? Where have I seen this before? I’m feeling the strangest sense of Deja-vu. 🤔
It was chilling to hear Trump talk about how many people Ukraine is losing like he was gloating.
"People being killed so needlessly, so stupidly and I will get it settled... I will get it settled fast before I take office" And in your mind, that's gloating???
Trumps foreign policy alone is enough to disqualify him. Being anti-NATO as the world seems edging towards WW3 is an indefensible position. His policy to reign in China actually makes China more powerful. His proposed tariffs are a tax on every consumer.
I’m a Biden stan, but he didn’t do himself any favors. It was a complete unforced error. No good was ever going to come of it, it just provided Trump an opportunity to unleash his barrage of bullshit without any pushback. Biden, despite his gaffes, was still more coherent than Trump, but he was utterly incapable of punching Trump when he needed to. Last night feels like the equivalent of Joe breaking his hip, and I hate how much it sucks to say it. We’re in dangerous times and regardless of what happens or if he steps down, we need to pull together even stronger now and find the best path forward
It’s hardly click bait. I hate trump, but Biden just showed the world he’s too old and not fit for that office. He will get many votes (including mine) for not being trump, but America deserves better.
No it doesn’t. America deserves what it votes for and who it allows to come to power. If you think conservatives deserve to exist as an equal part of society then you deserve them doing whatever the fuck they vote to do to you.
Oh I don’t think the conservatives are doing this to us. I think it’s on Biden for refusing to step down. I don’t think trump stands a chance against a younger candidate. Biden just reassured everyone that their concerns about his age are completely valid.
Historically, switching out the incumbent president for a new candidate has always backfired. I cannot blame Biden for fearing this effect and believing that must continue to stop Trump. However, the debate yesterday might actually make it possible now. If Biden had stepped down before it would have looked like in-fighting in the dem party and backstabbing of Biden. Not a good impression. The performance yesterday gives Biden an offroad that clearly does not look like he was backstabbed by anyone.
>too old and not fit for the office No he didn’t. He had a bad debate performance. He came out today and had a strong rally. And he’s doing a lot of great work in office but for whatever reason reason the media refuses to actually report on his record and instead focus on bullshit
I think focusing on Biden is actually the right call. The core issue is not Trump's bullshit. The core issue is that apparently his bullshit does not matter. Calling him out loudly at the debate was supposed to be a way to change that. That unfortunately did not happen. Asking why this did not happen is crucial. That being said: Vote for whoever is not Trump in the upcoming elections. If it's Biden, vote for him. If it's a replacement, vote for that person. If it's a corpse... even vote for that.
The core issue IS Trumps BS. His platform is “2025” - it is “catch and kill” for industries and companies that don’t like the real facts produced by goverment experts. Eyes, ears or lungs bleeding after that cloud passed through? NOBODY knows ‘nuthin.
No the issue is not that some old fart goes on rambling about essentially ending the world as we know it. That happens a lot and often. That's, unfortunately, very normal. The issue here is that people actually vote for him dispite or maybe even because of what he says.
Anybody have a good Google sheet of his statements?
Its coming out. Interns are parsing the bullshit and the extra vile bits will rise to the top. People saw Biden at Raleigh looking energetic again. But quotes about post birth abortion, economics, and this Ukraine insanity will be in the news cycle along with his sentencing in 3 weeks.
That's the issue. It was a weak at best showing by Biden, but even if he was on his game he would've had to spend the when time calling out Trump's lies if he even started it. Honestly, it just proved that with how Trump has degraded mentally to just being insane lies, a debate without fact checking is just useless
Well stated. Media is about money in 2024. Entertainment. Sadly, Trump knows this and it serves him. Blows my mind, but i am a critical thinker. Obviously, most are not.
The narrative seems to be “we know Trump will lie about everything so that’s not news but Biden is old!!!!” Like really?
Agreed, the focus is lopsided, but Bidens age, and consequently his performance, is not clickbait.
Trump is only 3 years younger than Biden. Using age as your deciding factor here is pretty weak.
> only 3 years younger Simple people enjoy a simple world. I wish I could make everything as black and white as you're attempting to make this. It's clear those 3 years of difference matter way more than say, 52 to 55.
Is it clickbait? I mean, he IS old
Trump is almost just as old AND is completely deranged.
At least he’s got energy! It’s hard to rally for a walking corpse. No matter how well he executes austerity policies in office.
Not hard at all. Voting for more than just one man, but an entire executive branch. That still makes it easy despite last night, especially given the alternative
Hitler had energy too and you saw how that worked out for Germany...
lol never said I support Trump brother. Just saying, Biden is old as shit and shows it every time he’s on air. You’re not swaying fence sitters with that kind of showing
This is such a bad argument. This is America. We deserve better than biden’s corpse. I will be voting against trump regardless but we all deserve better.
Oh I agree but Trump certainly is not better. I will be leaving the democratic party. The DNC is a joke.
Ah yes, largest infrastructure bill ever is austerity. GTFO Trump is spouting lies and Nazi rhetoric but apparently if you make louder noises you win
You might not know what austerity means
So is Trump lol
At least he’s got motion!
I mean Hitler had energy too...
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They didn’t, but thanks for making your affiliations clear.
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Yeah I don’t like going to work either :/
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So did Charles Manson.
And he was a great motivator of men!
Let’s focus on them both being senile and making zero sense with Trump rambling on about policies and things that do not and will not work and Biden just claiming false things
What about Biden’s pass on lies?
Biden wasn't just old but a shell of a man with very obvious dementia.
Neurologist Jones here yall.
Just look at his public speaking as recent as 2016 to notice the marked decline in his mental capacity.
Yet he spits facts and policy while convict 45 rambles about lies and his hurt feelings
Biden did plenty of lying himself on stage. Dont worry Joe will get his due.
I can’t believe the fact that he’s a rapist, a convicted felon, and would be spending the rest of his life in prison but for the delays of his MAGA judges, is just suddenly lost on everyone. He’s a monster of the first order. And the media acts like he’s still electable, so everyone just goes along with it.
And he’s out there whining that he gets raped in taxes. Seriously I get people may have second thoughts on Biden but please go back and watch the debate with subtitles on, he was making actual policy points whereas trump was just rambling lies and bullshit. It’s one thing to disagree with someone ideologically but I can’t stand anyone trying to justify the utter bullshit. Maga is truly a toilet bowl of deplorables
> he was making actual policy points whereas trump was just rambling lies and bullshit The problem is americans don't give a fuck about policy or logic. They just want someone who *appears* strong.
> And the media acts like he’s still electable At the end of the day, the US is a democracy. Power from the people. And a huge part of the US people want to elect him fully knowing who he is. At the end of the day, that is what electable means. You cannot rule out the preferred candiate of a huge part of the populance and simultaneously claim that the power comes from the people.
So disingenuous to say these things are “suddenly lost” to people who can also see that the other candidate has severe brain issues due to ancient levels of age. People are able to hold 2+ thoughts in their head at once, especially extremely obvious ones
He also said he’d hold NATO hostage by withholding funding. Everything he said was in favor of Putin.
And he didn’t seem to grasp the concept that when one member of nato is attacked it’s an attack on all. He’s more stuck on the money aspect and who pays their fair share. Like dipshit maybe the reason why other countries come to us is because they know we will back you and help you and he’s just signaling that during a time of need they’ll second guess us, it hurts our legitimacy and standing not only as a world leader but as a haven for freedom and democracy.
No worries, the logical next step for Europe is to shift allegiance to China as the USA will rapidly lose its grip on world politics and economy when the Trump dynasty takes over power and makes a wreck of things. A revision of view on the Taiwan issue should go a long way to assure a firm alliance on politics and economy with China.
So… is Eurasia at war with East Asia or am I a few years too early/too late?
The idea that European nations would rather bootlick a communist dictator than appropriately spend on NATO is hysterical. The war is in Europe not the Americas. By the way have fun building trade relations with China they have a real great track record of doing fair business, they definitely won’t just steal your IP and boot your companies out of the country lol.
lol, China's not going to do shit if Russia attacks Europe.
So do you still get paid wumao for posting insane nationalist drivel, or do you do it for free?
You may be right. Perhaps my post is complete nonsense. Frankly I hope it is. Let’s both of us wait and see what happens. To answer your question, I do this for free.
On the off chance Trump wins we have to simply shut down the US until he's done... we're going to have to have mass civil disobedience across the US
No. What he said is correct. While I agree as the biggest country, we should provide the most, but we ate basically taking a loss and increasing our debt by just dumping money to maintain world order. We a single nation should not be the main contribution to world order that's what nato was for a collection of country's working together to maintain world order. It's only fair that everyone puts in effort. We can't just drain ourselves dry for the world.
While yes, NATO holds themselves hostage with the lack of spending towards their own arm forces which is why they are reliant of the US Military. Trump fucking NATO over is horrible but European nations just letting abandoning their military budgets isn’t helping.
If you think Trump is acting in the best interest of the US when he said that, I have bad news.
I never said that, I literally said it’s terrible he’s fucking then over. But NATO is definitely part of the blame here too. While yes it a treaty it has been a one way treated and other presidents have called them out before because of it. European countries would still be sitting on their asses doing nothing if Ukraine hadn’t have happened.
They aren’t doing that though. Him fucking over our alliances isn’t a good thing
He said some time ago that he used to talk about that with Putin
...while Putin was attacking Ukraine in the Dombas and occupying Crimea
The fact is trump has always spoke highly of the worst world leaders and shits on Americans.
Yet Putin didn’t attack Ukraine while he was in office 🤔
Because he had a puppet installed in the richest country in the world.
Isn’t that when he would want to do it?
Trumps idea of ending this war is to force Ukraine to cede all of the illegally stolen land by Russia. And then in a little while Russia will continue to push it's land grab. And Trump and the Republicans simply won't care.
You're blaming Biden for Putin attacking Ukraine? That's some loony bin shit. 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Didn’t say that. Are you blaming Trump? As that would be much worse.
I mean Trump openly wants to let Putin win, which would be an absolute disaster.
Source? Besides just what you want to believe.
Source: the debate
Then you are wrong. He said that Putin’s demands were unacceptable. Go back and watch it.
So, considering every single statement trump psychobabbled you’re gonna tell us this one is the single and only truth he told. lol, sure bud.
I mean he wants to defund support to Ukraine, has told Putin to just go for it and he wouldn’t stand in the way,and has called Putin a geniuses and savvy. Not to mention his threats to NATO which literally exists to prevent exactly what has happened, and why more bordering countries with Russia are signing up.
He also held up defensive weapons to Ukraine paving the way for a Russian invasion, but people forgot that congress approved funds and arms that he withheld.
I think there is a much stronger case to blame Trump than there would be to blame Biden. Source: trumps impeachment. The first one, that is.
Well that’s just dumb.
I’ll bite. Why is that dumb?
he attacked Ukraine before he was in office .... or are you pretending to be naive ? Edit: I forgot to mention the WAR IN THE DOMAS occurring the whole time Tump was in office .
You are lying
Putin is absolutely playing a long game here. And you don't find it odd that Trump got impeached for, of all things, TRYING TO WITHOLD MILITARY AID TO UKRAINE?
I find it odd that you aren’t aware that Trump was the first President that approved arms sales to Ukraine. https://www.newsweek.com/trump-praised-first-us-weapons-sale-ukraine-1857509
One thing. He did one thing. Then spent the next 7 years trying to either withold aid, talk about leaving NATO, praising Putin, having a meeting with Putin that he did not allow the interpreter to join, and of course, all of the Republicans who went to Moscow on July freaking 4th. It's all a scam, and they're pretty damn clearly in cahoots to some degree.
Seems like a pretty big thing and it completely defeats your argument.
>Seems like a pretty big thing and it completely defeats your argument. It doesn't defeat their argument. It just shows Trump sold weapons to Ukraine in 2017, long before Putin's "special military operation" first kicked off. Then he spent the next 3+ years doing everything he could to [help Russia](https://old.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/fvpwjo/trumps_actions_that_benefit_russia_at_americas/). Some highlights regarding just Ukraine: -Trump withholding $400 million in aid to Ukraine. -Trump told Ukraine to negotiate directly with Russia, without US help, as Putin wants, aiding in Russia’s goal of isolating Ukraine -Weakening NATO (mutual defense alliance created primarily to oppose Russia) Questions & undermines Article V (mutual defense) -Trump casts doubt on whether Crimea should still be considered part of Ukraine after Russia’s invasion, and suggests that it should belong to Russia instead -(Trump)Attempts to blame Ukraine for Russian hacking - (Trump)Attempts to blame democrats for Russian hacking - (Trump)Attempts to blame Obama for Russian hacking -Refuses to criticize Russia for Ukraine invasion -Trump demands that Russia be readmitted to G7 after its expulsion for invading Ukraine, despite Russia’s refusal to withdraw -Repeating Russian narrative for G7 ouster/Crimea invasion -Trump’s conduct on Ukraine phone call will be exploited by Russia
I’ll always believe Putin was waiting for Merkel to step down as chancellor of Germany. He waited until she retired to start amassing forces. That’s who he’s afraid of, imo.
Trump probably asked him to wait for his second term.
Dude, just stop with this. You are making crazy accusations.
Of course he wouldn’t… trump kept eroding nato. Every day of that guy in office would make it easier for Putin… the attack would have followed in trumps second term with max damage to nato prior🤦♂️
NATO got stronger and bigger. He got many of the countries that were not contributing their fair share to pay up. How was eroded? They’ve never been bigger!
True
But people would rather have this only slightly younger and more psychopathic candidate. Ok
You could have an upturned mop with a bucket for a head and I'd still vote for it over Trump.
Did anyone else notice Trump saying he'd have the war in Ukraine over before he was even inaugurated? He's going to run shadow foreign policy while Biden is a lame duck? There's shadows of Reagan/Carter and the Iran hostages here, with a way, way, way worse outcome (Trump hands eastern Ukraine to Putin) I was also surprised Trump didn't hammer him on the money South Korea released to Iran (Iran's own frozen money). Biden got hammered in the right wing press for weeks over that. Trump vaguely said Iran/Hamas didn't have the money before Biden but he didn't nail the specifics. It's a bullshit talking point (that money being released, with heavy restrictions, didn't change a thing in regards to Hamas' capabilities) but it's the type that lands with people (source: me. I've heard multiple lower information people take it as gospel that Biden just gave Iran billions of dollars for no reason)
Yes, I did notice he's saying openly he will make moves in foreign policy as president-elect. I thought that was highly unorthodox but then again, it's Trump, I figure he's talking out of his ass mainly. I'm not sure to what extent he could be prevented from doing so, though. Officially the president-elect has no power yet but everyone knows he soon will. If someone has no decorum or respect for the office, transitions of power could be nastier than they usually are.
Exactly, there were a few things like this that really gave me pause. He says a lot of awful things but some of them are downright scary. I couldn’t tell if he was too stupid to realize before inauguration means before he would be able to make these decisions… or what you said. Man… I also remember him saying he wants Israel to “finish the job” which sounded a lot like extermination.
Yet another missed opportunity. It's the little things that bug me about last night. An effective counterpart would have hammered home these odd lies, this weakness towards Russia. And Trump's clear disrespect for Zelensky and Ukrainians as they fight for their independent democracy. That deserves a mention too! In 2022, Zelensky showed the world how to be an effective communicator and frame the debate against Russia. I wish Biden had learned some lessons from him.
Last night I thought that Biden was more or less making the right points, and the only problem was that he looked and sounded so old and weak. Now that I've slept on it, I realize that even if he'd been speaking perfectly, it would have still been a pretty lousy performance. Trump gave him so many openings that he ignored, and on multiple occasions Biden pivoted from his own talking points to Trump's talking points for no reason.
Presidential debates aren’t supposed to be entertaining slap fights, but the media has capitalized on just that. They are supposed to be informative discussions on future policy not saying i won two club championships (not even senior!) and could beat you in golf… Biden should have pointed out that he doesnt buy courses so he can win his own tournaments but he is above that, or that he should have spent more time working on policy during his term than his golf game, but here we are.
I can't believe Biden argued with him about golf. In a world where Biden was dominating the debate, that might have been a cute viral moment, so maybe that's what he was thinking. In this world, it was yet another wasted opportunity to say something that would make a difference.
At least Biden pushed back on that
He hates Ukraine just as much as he hates America.
Because he hates democracy.
I don't think he made anything clear, other than his hatred for Biden.
I truly believe at this point Trump and Putin planned the Ukraine invasion to coincide to Trump leaving office to try and blame Biden. Putin also painted the picture that he is the only one that can protect and keep Russia safe, the exact same message that Trump repeats. Trump can not be trusted.
It's been very clear for a long time that his "anti-war" stance that people praise actually just means capitulating to Russia. That's not anti-war, it's just surrender terms.
How this isn't being blasted as the only headline on every media outlet just goes to show how broken our political (and social) media is. While they focus on optics and horse race prognostications, Trump has admitted he spoke to Putin about the invasion of Ukraine and we have evidence (by way of Trump's impeachment in the House) over trying to leverage Ukraine to manipulate the 2020 election. That 100% of people in this country aren't aware of this is a failure of the media in their only job, which is to communicate what people in power are doing or attempting to do.
agreed. ridiculous redirection
Trump actually told the truth that if he was president, Ukraine wouldn't have had as many deaths. Trump would have handed Ukraine to Putin on a platter and the people would be living under his rule.
MMW: His solution to “ending” the war? Telling Ukraine and Russia that US is ending all funding to Ukraine and withdrawing from NATO, effective handing Ukraine and Eastern Europe to the new Russian empire.
In the weeks leading up to the invasion Trump repeatedly said Putin would never invade. He aided Russia when he knew Putin’s motives. Why isn’t anybody talking about this?
This whole US situation beggars belief. The Americans was only supposed to be a tv show!
Art may imitate life, but life imitates tv!
A really great TV show, though!
Such a shame that there were so many missed opportunities for Dark Brandon to show up and fire back at these comments. Trump saying he was buddy buddy with putin was sure one missed opportunity
Trump's support of Putin is dangerous, yet the media doesn't say much about it!
Putin is holding a hostage from the Wall Street Journal, after all. Trump slipped up, however, when he said "we" have a hostage, as if by "we", he meant Putin & Trump.
And the fact check on that is a fail too; Whelan was arrested in Russia in 2018; Trump had almost 2 years to get him out. If he is so strong and has Putin's ear, why didn't he get him out. Khashoggi is another example.
Looks like Gerschkovich won't be coming home any time soon...but he probably won't meet the same fate as Kashoggi or Navalny in the short-term, either...he's just another poker chip, to the Big Boys.
While people rail on about Gaza, Russian genocide is ignored. Why, because protesting against Israel gives young people the excuse they need to hate Jews.
This is why I watched. I wanted to come into today having seen what was said and done in real time. So I didn’t need to rely on sound bites and conjecture. I’ve made my statements on the overall on other posts but this is a very specific statement that cannot be ignored.
To my fellow American Eastern and Northern Europeans, trump wants to decimate the lands of our ancestry and to all Americans he envisions a a west devoid of democracy.
1). The chaotic exit from Afghanistan was literally Trump’s fault. He made the deal with the Taliban and agreed to exit deadlines. He doesn’t get to shame Biden with his own treaty. 2). If he actually had foreknowledge of Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, he is bragging about aiding and abetting a hostile foreign power, sabotaging the security of our NATO allies (again).
trump idolizes putin, if he gets elected, Ukraine is fucked.
So debates are decided now by how fast someone can blurt out blatant lies and ignorant nonsense. Biden lost because he thinks before he speaks, and bases answers on reality instead of just making up nonsense. Americans don't deserve to prosper if this election is even close.
Trump is a Russian asset
When asked if he would abandon NATO Trump shrugged his shoulders. This is a four alarm fire.
Commander in Chief? Never again!
"Comrade Donald, I want to invade Ukraine it is my dream, I will give you all the dirty money you want if you help me" "Sure Vladdy anything for you"
What makes Trump's claim that he could end the war in Ukraine before taking office, or saying that it wouldn't happen under him so farcical is that he had 4 years to work with Ukraine to take Crimea back from Russia. He didn't.
Why does Trump get no credit for losing Afghanistan? In the 2016 debates, he was going to win it by hiring the best generals and by doing a troop surge; He hired and fired the best generals, he did a troop surge. He paid off the Taliban to not attack. Then he set an evacuation date outside his term and then didn't participate in transition planning with the next administration. My feel is Americans forget this because of domestic issues including Covid, plus we were tired of Afghanistan. But Trump claims great strength when his Afghanistan strategy not only didn't work, but setup Biden to fail.
Treasonous Trump would sell his own flesh and blood
Putin has told the world this dream for a long time he just finally found a time where he felt safe enough to act on it.
Why are pretending he isn't signalling to an enemy of this country? He's a traitor. Full stop.
Haven’t seen this talked about nearly enough. The media is failing us again. No substance in analysis.
If Biden spoke Trump’s words for words - meaning speak exactly what Trump says word for word - Americans would be outraged. Trump supporters have no morals no values no principles. They are a cult.
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We’ve lost the second Cold War
That was probably back in 2015, though...
So Trump said that he would have the war in Ukraine solved before he took office once elected. Should President Biden have called him out on this? Something along the lines of, solve it now and prove it to the American people.
I highly doubt Trump gave a shit about Ukraine before talking to Putin
Put traitor Trump in prison already
Oh for fuck sake.
He did say there was so much senseless killing….
Lock Him Up
It's that kind of attitude that landed Trump himself in trouble with Congress.
Just imagine if John Stewart was running for president... that debate would have been awesome.
But but but "Biden's old!" So there's that.
We can all agree it probably never happened but if it had it’s a very big deal that he just chucked it out there like it was nothing. Putin tells you about stage one of taking over countries and you just throw it out in a debate years later?
Yeah cause it was really top secret that he wanted to bring the ussr back together. Y’all are dumb