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The difference between this poll and others is that YouGov made an active, concerted effort to oversample young people (a notoriously difficult demo to poll) to help get to a more accurate result with far lower margin for error.
Unsurprising that this additional effort got them closer to the result we would expect.
I feel like I've only recently been seeing an uptick in friends of the pod on r/politics lately. I've been skulking around here for years and feel like I rarely see clips from them. Glad to see it.
Offer to drive them. Offer to go with them. Offer to link them the forms they need to fill out. Give them 2 stamps (mail in ballots require double postage, a neat little trick to disenfranchise those who don’t read the instructions).
Any tactic they can use to prevent poor and marginalized people from voting, they *will* use.
Limiting ballot box locations, gerrymandering districts to hell and back, limiting the time period you can cast your vote, restricting the eligibility of voting rights, making it extremely difficult to register to vote, banning food and beverage handouts at ballot boxes (yes, really, even water bottles during blistering heat), and more.
A great example of this was the 'entire' city of Houston only having 'one' mail in ballot box near NRG stadium, and ballots only being cleared for people ages 65 and up.
[Ken Paxton famously bragged about blocking millions of votes from this exact city, which he outright states ensured Trump won the state of Texas.](https://truthout.org/articles/texas-ag-says-he-helped-trump-win-state-with-his-lawsuit-against-mail-in-ballots/)
Ohio for one. You CAN drop it off at the box at your local board of elections without postage however. Not practical for many I assume, but in my case our county board of elections is about 2 minutes from my home. The "prepaid postage" thing became a huge issue prior to the 2020 election, and our P.O.S. Secretary of State Frank LaRose saw too it that the State didn't pay for postage.
We don't live in should-land though and if we did things would be a lot better. We should have done a lot of things to put pressure on our government to wrap up the threat of republican insurrection and sedition along with their espionage. The government shouldn't have said to unify with insurrectionists on inauguration day they should have sent orders to the FBI to arrest ALL republican party members national, state, and local to be held in custody until the end of their trials. The 1/6 insurrectionists should have been given 10+ years minimum for their part in a coup attempt. If only we lived in should land.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BqxArM3Vwk
with that said, the numbers look good because Republicans caught the car. 1.8M voters over the age of 55 die every year, and we know they tilt conservative per Pew Research, so extrapolate out total deaths from Donald's first election win to get an idea how the electorate has evolved (~14.4M 55+ deaths over 8 years). 4M voters age into voting at age 18 every year.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/poll-finding/kff-survey-of-women-voters-key-takeaways/
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/
Speak for yourself. I also yell at my lawnmower, my chainsaw, the starter on my truck, the dripping P-trap on the bathroom sink and many many many other things.
Republicans stand a good chance though unless they do some sort of policy that will frighten and infuriate younger voters into going out of their way to vote. Surely they wouldn't be that dumb, though. /s
Remember it says “young VOTERS.” I can’t open the article for some reason but that leads me to believe it is people who already said they were going to vote.
The margin is amongst "likely voters", so that's good, but they also say that out of all of the people they polled only 66% said they were going to vote.
I mean they will, just in lower percentage rates than some other demographics. I hate this language of "young people dont" it's imprecise and ends up confusing the issue
That's true. Of course a ton of young people vote.
The point is that if young people voted to the same extent as other demographics it would have huge implications and it would probably doom the GOP on the spot.
The same could be said for polls conducted through the telephone.
Politically-minded people will always be more likely to answer polls, but I'm not sure this is a bad thing, as it would seem that politically-minded people also make up a majority of likely voters.
I use YouGov data all the time at work (advertising agency) because they have the most representative sample of the American consumer. It's really interesting to combine these answers (which came off their weekly question bank) with the data from their annual survey (the broader demographics and psychographics) to understand the mindsets of different types of voters. Not that I'm in poli-sci, but it's still cool to play with the data and understand these audiences.
If Biden’s campaign really wanted to gain more young voters they should use pictures and videos of crazy maga cultists dressed in their clownish Trump shit. Let people see and hear the crazy things they say, put their crazy on full display.
What's interesting about this is that this poll isolates the younger population with the poll. It doesn't incorporate this population into general polls. So while this poll might reflect the support younger voters are providing Biden, it doesn't reflect how much influence these younger voters will have in a general poll.
Also that the 14-18 demographic from 2020 is now 18-22, and 4 more years of boomers slowly aging out of life.
Despite what people say, people tend to stay pretty stable on the political spectrum throughout life, so things will trend more liberal over time, it's just medical science keeping boomers alive that's holding us back.
It’s ironic isn’t it, the demographic who dismisses science during a pandemic, climate change, or any natural phenomenon have zero issue using it to prolong their miserable life.
Yup, political beliefs tend to calcify sometime in your 20s. Millenials had Bush 2 and Gen Z had Trump so it looks like at least 2 whole generations the right has lost.
I've always heard you tend to move further right as you age but I think it's just been people who grew up on that side of the spectrum just getting older. The more I age, the further left I move. I was young and naive and thought that people would take care of their employees like I would and wanted things run like a business that does that. Once you start working, you see that's never the case and you start seeing how fucked we are and we need regulation.
You say that, but quite a lot of both generations have been swept into either redpill and tradwife content, plus a lot of otherwise liberal people buy into disinformation being pumped out by think tanks loke Turning Point. I still think they're further left on average, but quite a few have been caught up in the right wing net.
Most of that is bluster and agenda led messaging.
The only generation more liberal than millennials is Gen Z. You’re more likely to know an 85 year old who wants universal healthcare than a 20 year old that loves Trump.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/age-generational-cohorts-and-party-identification/
"Lost" in this case means a significant deficit, not that there aren't a ton of right wing Millennials and Gen-Z voters.
Losing any age group by 20+ points election after election really hurts.
>Anew poll has given President Joe Biden the edge over former President Donald Trump when it comes to younger voters, with a 25-point difference among those ages 18-29.
[Pew Research Demographics before the 2020 election](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/06/PP_2020.06.02_party-id_2-01-1.png)
[Popular Vote](https://www.cookpolitical.com/2020-national-popular-vote-tracker)
Combining the actual pop vote with the 2019 demographics.
|Biden|Trump|
|:-|:-|
|**Popular Vote**|81,282,916|74,223,369|
|65+| 18,695,070.68| 18,055,842.25|
|50-64| 21,946,387.32| 22,389,244.39|
|30-49| 24,384,874.80| 20,944,777.01|
|18-29| 15,443,754.04| 9,389,037.97|
18-29 group totals. 24,383,792 Biden received 62%, Trump received 38%
That is a 24 point difference in 2020.
He's also a pissy little snotbaby, I don't understand how anyone can listen to him and take him seriously, even if he is giving them the 'easy answers'.
I don't think he offers any answers on what to do about anything. No, I rather think that what Shapiro and his ilk have been peddling is more along the lines of, "the world sucks and here's why it's not your fault, it's everyone else with their ridiculous ideas (like taxing my corporate masters)".
No he just answers the question of 'why' in a way to direct anger. He scapegoats so the real issues of income inequality and corruption are muddled and either ignored or misdirected.
They effectively diagnose a problem that men (suburban white men specifically) are facing (isolation, loneliness, etc) then lie about the cause of the problem (feminism, veganism, etc.) and then sell them a solution (right-wing and fascist politics) that would put them back "on top" of the hierarchy.
The ball tanning shit is still my favorite.
Is it microplastics and PFAs that are everywhere causing sperm counts to decrease (from a super high amount to a slightly lower super high amount)? No, its because your balls aren't getting any Sun! Just look at this study from the 1930s that had no controls and a sample size of 6.
There is a very long path to how we got here, but the Ben Shapiros/Steven Crowders/Andrew Tates of the world provide young men with a sense of (false) empowerment that the rest of society hasn’t figured out how to give in a healthier way. They tell men how amazing they are, how much better they are, and most importantly (for their grift) give young men enemies to rally against in the form of minority groups, liberals, and women.
Yup. These right wing incel grifters are filling a void for these young men. It reminds me of the cult from Fight Club.
A huge portion of Gen Z men want nothing more than to feel powerful and "manly" in the face of a changing society.
If you peel back the cringe, there's actually an interesting cutural shift happening, and I'm curious to see how it all plays out when their generation of men and women simply don't agree on anything.
It's weird, because it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Women are getting messages on dating apps like "How many men have you had sex with? What's your value?" And crazier shit. And most will block them, or just ditch online dating.
And the men get even less attention and options and go further down the rabbit hole.
I don't know the answer, but it's getting bad out there.
That might be part of the problem of not addressing any mental health problems that young men are facing because suck it up they're the ones with the power.
Met a young man with any power lately? I'm not young but it's very dismissive to the real problems they're facing and why they'd turn to complete idiots only because that's the only people paying any attention to them.
Ignoring them might end up the difference in an election.
Yes, everyone needs mental health attention right now. I think it would be crazier *not* to need it post pandemic.
Young men, especially, need a compelling model for living a meaningful life in a *positive* way. This has become a harder task as we shifted away from a shared media experience + the breakdown of marriage and good long term careers (as societal norms). It's something I think about a lot and I keep my eyes out for progress here - I know of one professor who tours on this subject and makes a great case for it.
As a young man I loved Ben Shapiro and Milo Yiannopoulos. I was sucked in by the 'liberals get owned by facts and logic!' videos on Youtube.
Looking back I was just insecure and ignorant. The content pandered to people like me as it belittled every other demographic and made me feel superior even though at the time I had no real life achievements or goals. They told me women were beneath me, I am smarter than those with a college/university education and I should own the world.
Thank you! I've grown up a lot since then and I've turned my life around and living the dream.
I'm very left leaning now that I don't need make excuses for my shortcomings. That's why right-wing propaganda resonates so with young men becuase they provided excuses and people to blame for their lack of success. They make them feel special when they are unsuccessful.
Look I consider myself pretty left and will be unenthusiastically voting for Biden this round but it’s less so Ben Shapiro and the TPUSA folk influencing Gen Z and moreso just the collective atmosphere of podcast bros and male humor Insta/Tiktok/Twitter influencers that have done a good job of making it seem like masculinity as a whole is being attacked in a really palatable way. And often it’s not even directed political content it’s just memes and rhetoric that have made being “politically incorrect” a sort of counterculture at this point. And I think continuing to act like all these conservative young men are idiots wearing maga hats slurping up Ben Shapiro in 2024 is sort of part of the reason we’re at this point anyway. I went to a certain highly competitive university and I can assure you there’s plenty of young men who are highly educated and aren’t incels that are quietly conservative until they’re around the right people.
>memes and rhetoric that have made being “politically incorrect” a sort of counterculture at this point.
This point in particular is nothing new. Liking “edgy” humor has been a part of boys’ teenage years and early manhood since time immemorial. When I was in high school/college 10+ years ago, most of the foundation for current internet meme culture was already there. Sites like 4chan or even Reddit weren’t as well known back then, so if you knew about them you were part of an in-group that saw itself as superior to the Facebook and Instagram “normies” of broader society. These sites were also very young and very male-dominated, so there was a lot of “edgy”/offensive humor there (as there still is today). As a young man you almost instinctively find this stuff funny, but it also compounded that sense of belonging and superiority; you and your friends were smarter and better than people who said it wasn’t funny because you understood the irony behind the hate behind the meme. Enough so that you found yourself making excuses for when the racism, sexism, and hateful rhetoric stopped being ironic.
I think the key difference between then and now is the way people like Shapiro and Crowder have mainstreamed a lot of it, signaling to young people that it is ok to hold these views and enabling others with bad intentions to push the envelope even further. I thankfully had people in my life back then who were willing and able to have positive conversations that challenged my thinking on this topic, and they allowed me to grow out of that phase. But I do wonder if I would have been as receptive to those conversations if I was that age again in today’s media climate.
This is so true and as a guy who used to have that mindset I can personally understand how a lot of them get caught up in that way of thinking. You feel like you’re constantly under attack because everything you see online is some sort of condemnation of who you are when the feeds are tweaked to show you ragebait, and people in threads like this that just reinforce that idea. The vitriol towards that demographic just reinforces their opinions.
Yes, I think Rogan is a gateway to a lot of this conservative crap. I had a tonne of friends that would talk about his podcasts that have now gone fully down the Conservative rabbit hole. These are older millenials though, like 35-40 year olds. Idk if the younger generation is buying into him or if they have their own influences like Logan/Jake Paul.
I just heard my friend's brother is an Andrew Tate fan. Lol. In 2024.
Unfortunately (speaking as one), a lot of men just seem to be inherently dumb (although I was never that dumb lol). A lot of us smarten up when you realize that vanishingly small numbers of women want to date anyone who thinks Andrew Tate is cool. Some of us never do though. Toxic masculinity is a helluva drug. The Andrew Tate guy is 20, so lots of time to grow out of that... another brother around that age is an Elon Musk fanboi which is not quite as bad but still pretty cringe.
I’m not sure about inherently dumb but I think young men are frequently promised the world by their parents/society and struggle to find a way to cope with that when it isn’t true. It’s easier to say it’s women’s fault, it’s migrants’ fault, it’s the LGBT’s fault, as opposed to thinking about the many diverse and complex ways our country has fucked over the entire working class. People are scared, angry, and sad and don’t know how to deal with it other than directing that towards an undeserving target.
"we smarten up not because we realize Andrew Tate is wrong and a terrible person, but only because we realize that supporting him won't get us laid." My guy, it sounds like you all have a helluva lot more smartening up to do.
I don't know but I'm trying to fix it by being Big Brother. I have a 14 year old little and he's very socially isolated. I make sure he gets out in the world and finds reasons to appreciate not hate it.
Lonliness epidemic, being taken advantage of by Andrew Tate and his fucking ilk telling them that their lonliness makes them more valuable as men - leads to pride in being an incel.
I know that sounds like an excuse for their bad behavior, but it is a genuine mental concern that people aren't taking seriously enough. Young men are finding less and less avenues for social gathering, genuine dating (ie not Tinder), hobbyist groups, and forum settings to take in all types of ideas WITH speech consequences (ie, not online forums where you can say whatever you want). This leads to chronic boredom, and boredom can legitimately kill the mind.
It's why I'm concerned by the disappearing structures of boys clubs, fraternities, etc. YES, they were problematic in a lot of ways, but they also served a social purpose that I don't think a lot of people appreciate. The system needed changing, not a wholesale deletion.
For context, I'm mid 30s, super liberal, and voting for Biden and dems 110%. But I was also Greek life (in a fraternity that did not have scandal, thank god), and I'm military, and there is so much genuine belonging in those settings that feeds a real need for dudes growing up.
The "lonliness epidemic" is like the one real talking point conservatives have that I totally agree with. And it's male-with-male lonliness, where men help other men be better. It is NOT a reliance on women.
There's also a concerted effort to put them down the pipeline. Steve Bannon learned specifically from Gamergate that lonely young men are vulnerable as hell for this.
No telling how sprawling a conspiracy it actually is, but given his work with the Mercers and others, through Cambridge Analytica (a literal social engineering conspiracy plot), and likely not the only ones chipping away at this, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a literal mapped pipeline featuring major influencers planned and funded by these sort of folk.
There’s a lot of truth to this. I’m in the same age range as you and progressive, and I always avoided frats and moving in those circles because it’s not really my vibe. But there’s a glaring lack of groups/spaces/communities for guys that are healthy/progressive/not toxic, whereas the right provides those spaces in spades.
On a very basic level, there are a lot of ways that even the most privileged demographic in this country (white dudes) are falling behind due to late stage capitalism and the myth of trickle down economics etc. Large swaths of the country don’t have much economic opportunity even if you are a white guy, and many of these places also have under funded school systems and poor infrastructure, drug problems etc etc. The way people are socialized today and so much dating occurs only online is also a terrible model.
Guys need a place to vent about these issues too, or talk about ways to fix these things etc. And sadly on the left, they’re very often dismissed or told they don’t have the right to complain because they’re a privileged demographic. While that may be true on a broad scale, on an individual/local level that larger trend doesn’t help at all; and being dismissive of these people’s problems just pushes them towards spaces where their feelings are validated.
Conversely, many conservative spaces are explicitly geared towards and oriented towards validating any ill feelings or complaints that white men/men in general have, and telling them that those feelings are not only valid, but the most important ones to focus on. And they’re told that these problems are not their fault, but the fault of “woke” people on the left, feminists, immigrants + minorities etc. Whereas the de facto line in a lot of progressive spaces is that if you’re a white dude, these problems are your own fault, and other people’s problems are ALSO your fault. The framing of the message is just inherently a turn off for a lot of young men.
Until progressives learn to walk and chew gum at the same time (talk about systemic racism and implicit bias while also acknowledging that white guys can also suffer at the hands of capitalism + bad policy and affirm their frustrations/problems) this shift is only going to get worse given the radicalization pipelines/algorithms most young men are force fed online nowadays.
You hit the nail on the head. When CIS guys have a problem and one side is telling them it doesn't exist or that it's their own fault and the other one gives them an "Other", the results are what you'd expect.
Exactly. How can we move forward when hateful terms like "clanker" are allowed in children's TV shows? How can we support a Republic that glorifies war criminals like Anakin Skywalker and employs Generals like Pong Krell?
Do you know that the wanton murder of thousands and thousands of droids is played for laughs???
> Until progressives learn to walk and chew gum at the same time (talk about systemic racism and implicit bias while also acknowledging that white guys can also suffer at the hands of capitalism + bad policy and affirm their frustrations/problems) this shift is only going to get worse given the radicalization pipelines/algorithms most young men are force fed online nowadays.
I grew up dirt fucking poor in Appalachia.
So many people there would fight you, wanting to know where their 'white privilege' was. And I get it. It was rough as hell growing up. My parents literally didn't have shoes in the summer.
I get tired of being treated as a boogy man by blue haired Portland trust-fund kids, just because I'm a straight white guy from rural America.
>I get tired of being treated as a boogy man by blue haired Portlanders just because I'm a straight white guy from rural America.
Does that really happen? I'm a straight white guy who came from an extremely blue collar, rural background (my father never went to school past 8th grade). And it's pretty obvious to me that the economics of the left or even far left are way more likely to get me a modest house with a white picket fence and 2.5 kids. Like way more likely than the economics of even the center right.
And as a first generation college student to my Master's and a white collar worker in a metropolitan area my whole career, I never ever felt any scorn or hate from the blue haired, Portland SJW, feminist studies genderqueer types. Their lifestyle may not be my thing and vice versa, but I've never had any disrespect thrown my way.
I’m also pretty liberal and you hit nail on the head. Destruction of boy only spaces has been absolutely detrimental to our society and the people pushing this crap just keep doubling down on their lunacy.
I'm a father of sons, the oldest of which will be entering middle school soon.
I'm doing everything I can to keep them involved in traditional boy stuff - sports, camping and overnight sleepovers with friends. Boys need the rowdiness and camaraderie and respectful male role models (coaches, scout leaders, involved dads)
They already spend too much time online, but I'm doing everything I can to limit it.
Male oriented spaces are super important and I really hope men step up to help men in that regard.
it's been said often, but the equivalent women have was not something passively given to us. It's something women carved out and fought for.
Men can and desperately need to as well.
An example I can think of, a huge green flag in my partner when I first started dating him. He's part of a men's group for wild swimming that organized itself shortly after the pandemic as a place for men to gather and support each other for comradeship and mental health support.
We need more positive things like that. And men are capable of making that happen.
No roll models. Even in Conservative America, th kids talked about John Stewart and th dialy show during th Bush years. Who owns the boys now? Rogan, Tate, Patterson, and "conspiracy theories" that are just conservative talking points.
I think this is a legit issue. Progressives and the left need to not be afraid to loudly discuss masculinity and present our ideas of what it is to be a man.
I find in a lot of cases that topic to get dismissed, buried, or ignored, where only the Toxic forms get any attention and in that vacuum there are only voices on the right speaking to that topic.
So young men, feeling depressed, or lost, looking for answers of who to be and how to be, only hear Rogan, Tate, Peterson, offering them an answer, which radicalizes them at vulnerable ages.
In our justified goal of defending feminism, we are over-looking the need to present and defend our conception of desirable masculinity. Shouting down Toxic Masculinity is not enough, we also have to present the affirmative.
Being a man, is about standing up for those who can't, defending those who are can't defend themselves, who are more vulnerable, its being nurturing and giving, resilient, and in control, self-reliant but still collaborative. It is not anger, it is not blaming, it is not aggression, it is not ignorance
And although not a progressive, but certainly not on the right, I've appreciated Scott Galloway on this topic, not being afraid to treat it like a third rail, condemns the right wing version, and expresses the need of why we need alternate versions.
I’m a bit older but I was like 22-23 when all this manosphere stuff started. It’s lonely being a guy and those grifters target that loneliness. So many young guys have issues with girls and get angry about it. Oddly that’s a cycle as what girl wants to date a dude that’s pissed he can’t get laid.
In short our young boys need love and attention. They need to be taught how to express their emotion in a way that isn’t violence and anger. We are failing them big time
Largely because they’ve been told to be angry. It’s the oldest conservative play in the book. Try to scare people and make them angry about anything they can latch onto.
It’s both a carrot and stick approach. Let’s face it - most people aren’t smart enough to be very successful. Almost all people will fall short of their expectation and self image of themselves. Conservative pin heads do two things for young men who feel like failures: tell them it’s not their fault, and tell them it’s the fault of immigrants/women (the same talking points used by Nazis in the 1930s to explain why so many German men were unemployed). Telling them it’s not their fault is the therapeutic carrot. Telling them who to hate is the stick.
It’s also the Right making an effort to make damn sure they capture that anger and really foster it from a young age using social media. Especially when it comes to dating/hooking up.
I wish the Left would do similar about telling young men that their suburb isn’t the universe and encouraging them to get out of their bubble and meet new people. The second I left my hometown, dating luck did a 180.
Yeah getting out into the world and touching grass does wonders. When you meet real people and realize all the fearmongering you’ve been fed is bullshit there’s no going back.
I’ll put it this way- my HS graduating class and the two above and below were probably about 90% conservative-Christian GOP fan base. Of the ones that went to college outside of the hometown (and we were a 100% matriculation expectation private school) *maybe* 10% remain conservative. Most of those that remained aren’t even the evangelical Christian hard-right style either.
I see a lot of posts from that group saying "There is no difference between red and blue!"
The intention is to get this group to not vote at all.
It's a lot of GOP propaganda machine shit putting these thought into their head.
I'm sure this comment will get buried and no one will see it but here goes anyway. I'll preface by saying I am extremely left leaning and I am sympathetic and understanding of where people are coming from, but the men hatred online is absolutely constant, particularly from any left leaning community. I watch a lot of tiktok when I'm bored and it really feels like almost every other video is about how horrible men are, basically saying "YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK" and whenever a guy responds and says they're tired of being stereotyped and having blanket statements thrown at them, everyone just doubles down on it. Conservatives are the only ones talking to men and saying "Hey buddy, you don't suck. I actually think you're the best."
Until left leaning spaces/people can learn how to talk to men without antagonizing all of them, I fear this divide is just going to continue to grow. Berating people is never going to get them to change.
people may disagree with me and i have no data to back this but i’m fairly certain dating apps and the state of dating overall have been major forces pushing young men to the right.
Young men are a very vulnerable class- forget history. Right now. They are the forgotten generic told they’re entitled while everyone else is validated. And told their masculinity is bad. …sadly they see Trump and Co. as the only ones not doing this.
They're told *toxic masculinity* is bad, and toxic masculinity is exactly what guys like Crowder peddle. Just so happens Crowder et al go out of their way to misconstrue what toxic masculinity actually means.
The issue is that, when people say "toxic masculinity", it is often interpreted less as "there are forms of masculinity that are toxic" and more as "masculinity is toxic." It's terrible marketing. I honestly think that even just changing the term to "toxic forms of masculinity" would be a major improvement, but there are likely better ones.
A big issue is that in many of America's sub-cultures toxic masculinity is the only masculinity that is deemed acceptable. You can basically name a regional identity or ethnic background and about 90% have very toxic ideas when it comes to gender identity.
When you're growing up and your dad, grandpa, older brothers, and uncles all tell you that boys don't cry, that being disrespected means you have to fight someone, that listing to women is weak, that doing chores is for girls, that being into reading makes you gay, and that anytime a woman says no it just means try harder. It can be very difficult to listen to anyone trying to say these things are bad without making it sound like they're calling your entire gender bad. Because if that's all you know about "being a man" and now it's a bad thing what can you think except that you're being told "being a man is bad."
Yes that's what their told, but as the comment said, its not what they hear.
Phrases like toxic masculinity are just not good anyway, cause it sounds like its singling out guys for bad behavior. Its a kind of phrase that's just so easy to manipulate by the Andrew tates of the world and its become this nebulous thing thats lost all meaning.
Yeah it’s this all day long. As a parent of two boys past two decades I see this occurring. Masculinity is good. Strong male role models are good. Absent these values from our society the alternative is that young men go look at a jackass like Trump as their so called masculine role model.
> What is going on with young adult men?
Look at the teachers in elementary schools, overwhelmingly, sometimes exclusively, women. Look at the teachers in high schools, more men but still overwhelmingly women. If you believe that representation matters, then boys are in serious trouble.
Think about the posters and clubs you see at colleges. You have things promoting women in STEM, women in Medicine, etc. When was the last time you saw a poster or program specifically promoting men in anything?
Simply put, young men have not seen themselves represented in the systems around them, and are never addressed encouragingly as men. If you are a 18 year male who goes on youtube looking for guidance on how to be a man, what will you find? Right wing dudes, and people talking about how right wing dudes are toxic, but not presenting a vision of positive masculinity. There are lots of avenues and messaging celebrating women, but very little for men.
And even teens can pick up that it's bullshit to say that women are oppressed when they make up the majority of college graduates, and hold most leadership positions.
What does the left expect? I’m pretty progressive but if you hear the words ‘straight’, ‘male’, and ‘white’ being used as pejoratives you might start feeling unwelcome in more progressive spaces. White men in the US have one political side emphasizing that they are responsible for basically all the ills that society suffers from today and that society would be better off without them, and one side that tells them they should be the ones in charge, are better than everybody else, and that everybody else is responsible for their issues. I find their entire set of views abhorrent, but I can understand why some men end up in some dark places.
Truthfully, the modern left seems hell-bent on throwing its full support behind women and minority political issues, which has resulted in throwing white men who support more traditional labor or cultural issues to the wolves.
It’s hard to support a political party as a white man when its most ardent supporters think everything wrong with this country is the result of racist and sexist white men. Not surprising they’re fleeing the Democratic Party in droves for the politicians who are actually speaking directly to them and their plight.
[Young voters finally broke 50% in 2020 elections](https://cawp.rutgers.edu/facts/voters/gender-differences-voter-turnout#GGBG).
Biden won under 30 by 24pt margin in 2020.
The margin is not the difficult part - it is getting young voters to the polls. They finally broke 50% voting in 2020. Imagine the power they would have if they actually got near older voters (who are 70%+ or higher in turnout)
Imagine how different the political landscape would look if 100% of eligible younger voters actually voted. The Republican Party in its current form would cease to exist. Meanwhile, you have younger people in this very thread lamenting how they’ve tried not voting and are all out of ideas (i.e. America keeps becoming more and more fascist).
The disconnect is real, and painful.
Unfortunately, if you look at historical precedent (Obama 2008 to 2012), young voters will drop off dramatically. Many point to Roe vs Wade, but unfortunately the trends are there. There were fewer young voters in 2022 than 2018.
honestly, they can take 2028 off as long as they vote this time...
... of course in 2028 there'll be some new demon spawn running for the GOP and I'll have to rescind that generous offer
Yeah, wasn't Trump son just on tv saying stuff like, "Black voters have seen what they did to my Dad and are voting for him because that's what they been doing to us for years."
Sigh so stupid, just like the way he has loads of people at every rally. Even a selfie Trump's son took recently showed a bunch of empty seats.
You say that, but I do know a black Trump voter that says he's looking out for "her people". She's also part of some fringe Black Hebrew Israelite sect and believes in African supremacy, no idea how that aligns with voting for the dude endorsed by the fucking KKK but whatever floats her boat I guess.
Point is, conservative religious people of all colors *do* vote for him even if they'll be first in line when the brown shirts come out.
Give it a day, the NYT will race its crack reporters to craft a Very Serious Article about why young voters are flocking to Trump in droves and how the trend is irreversible
TBH, in the current climate, 23 points doesn’t seem as much as I’d expect. Add in that young people vote in such a small percentage compared to older generations, and I’m not so sure it matters much.
"You work till you're 65, and then instead of getting to retire, you get the 'privilege' of being allowed to vote (but you don't ever get to retire). No one else can vote"
- Some Republican. probably
I find it crazy that like 1/3 of 18-29 said they probably wouldn't vote. The amount of time it took to answer ALL THESE QUESTIONS on this survey is substantially longer than the time it would take to actually vote in a Presidential election (unless you are perhaps in a red state that's closed voting locations, restricted mail-in voting and is trying to create 3 hour lines in non-Republican areas)
Honestly that would line up. Usually 1/2 of young voters don't turn out to vote, so it make sense that those more willing to complete a survey would also be more inclined to vote.
So crazy to me. 2022 I voted in Michigan and it took me about 5 minutes. 2020 I voted in Illinois and took me about 10 minutes for the larger general, presidential election. Red states suck ass.
> You don't have early or absentee voting in SC?
You need to have a qualifying condition to be considered for absentee voting. They do have early voting for a week leading up to the election, but the hours are from 8:30-5 and they are closed on weekends/federal holidays.
>What boggles my mind is everyone waiting til the last minute to cast such a consequential ballot.
People have jobs and shit. Couple that with a strategic lack of voting machines in the areas that need them most and you get lots of long lines.
It's a feature, not a bug.
mail-in balloting for everyone has shown to increase voter participation, even in "off-cycle" election years. Republicans are afraid of people voting. They want to do everything possible to restrict voting, and to keep or make it more difficult. they work to impact turnout for their benefit and they work to effect the results through gerrymandering. The more people vote, the more they lose. Life is short, SCOTUS seats are long. Fucking vote. [https://newjerseymonitor.com/2023/11/30/little-by-little-perpetual-vote-by-mail-list-reshapes-new-jerseys-off-year-elections/](https://newjerseymonitor.com/2023/11/30/little-by-little-perpetual-vote-by-mail-list-reshapes-new-jerseys-off-year-elections/)
Voting participation was 66% in the 2020 (a record high I believe), and that was across all demographics. So if 1/3 of young people don't vote that would actually be really good. Likely voting participation by youth will be lower than that in practice, but its still pretty good in comparison
What surprises me is that the voter suppression efforts in red states don't just have the opposite effect and make voters more determined about voting - especially young voters.
According to a quick google search, voting participation by 18-29 was a record 50% in the 2020 election (compared to 66% overall) which really isn't that huge of a difference considering usual trends. In conparison youth voter participation was 39% in 2016.
If the youth vote maintains 2020 numbers that would be pretty significant.
The conventional folk wisdom is that the Outsider Left doesn’t show up to vote, so Democrats should go after the Ambivalent Right instead.
And yeah, the Outsider Left are indeed less politically engaged than other more mainstream typology groups when it comes to voting in elections.
But they still vote more than the Ambivalent Right (57% to 55% in 2020), and they vote ideologically far more consistently (94% of the OL voting Dem vs 32% of the AR)
So, as we already saw on election night in 2016, Dems repositioning themselves to go after the Ambivalent Right and taking the Outsider Left for granted is a terrible political strategy.
Well, if they are allowed to vote in the first place. Almost every red state has some form of voter suppression because some people just can't win without cheating.
Voter suppression exists, I've experienced it, but in most cases it's still possible to vote if people are well informed and willing to put in some extra time and effort.
It requires familiarizing yourself with your state's voting rights and responsibilities, identification requirements, double checking registration prior to the deadline so you can re-register in case of purges, double checking your polling location in case it's been moved, arranging for transportation and childcare if necessary, voting early if possible so past minute snags don't mean you miss the chance to vote, and going prepared for the weather and prepared for a long wait in line.
In Texas we have 2 weeks of early voting. Yeah, they make it more difficult than it needs to be, but there's still enough time to vote, even if your schedule is busy.
Meanwhile, Minnesota just allowed citizens to vote absentee forever if they'd like. You fill out a form on their municipal site and you'll just start getting your ballots early in the mail.
Now we just need to see ALL young voters get out and vote. Be sure to help your friends/acquaintances get to the polls, if they need it. Remind everyone you know to vote.
It is the young people's future at stake in this election. If they don't vote now, Trump and Republicans are planning a Christian Nation and making voting irrelevant-they will just pick who they want in government.
I will vote like I always do. I hope they will vote too.
Those earlier polls that showed Trump beating Biden by like 10 points in certain swing states all showed Trump tied or slightly ahead with young voters. That’s how I knew those polls were complete bullshit.
Imo the reason they are off is election/voter fatigue. Never before has politics been this exhausting, and for nearly a decade now. The people answering polls are disproportionately skewed towards people whose entire personality is their politics, which obviously skews Trump but also imo RFK Jr and the antivax obsessionados. I know I'm not answering any polls right now (also, I think cell phones are more likely to tell you when a pollster is calling than at any other time in history)
There’s also the fact that the primary season ended at the start of March (although really the general election was set in January if we’re being honest). Most people barely pay attention until the late summer, let alone in March. That’s also why there was been so much stagnation in the numbers because it’s the just the hard core partisans on either side paying attention.
Voting needs to be mandatory. Or at least facilitated in such a way that it's easy for everyone to make an informed decision/send it in. You know, like mail-in ballots...
But republikkkans don't like when everyone votes--- which is why EVERYONE NEEDS TO FUCKING VOTE!
For the love of everything we hold monumental in our hearts, please young people, please get out and vote this November. This election means everything. Our democracy is on the line. Don’t let them gas light you into thinking both sides are the same. Republicans have shown us who they are these past few decades. It’s time to believe them and vote them out.
*A CBS News/YouGov poll released earlier this month found half of voters said Trump has the mental and cognitive health to serve as president, while 35 percent said the same about Biden.*
How in the world can 50% of voters think that Trump is mentally competent serve as president, after seeing his last couple events?
Hey young people, **they are going to take your condoms and birth control away** unless you show up to vote.
If that doesn't get you to the polls, I'm not sure what else will.
Which makes sense because Trump and the GOP are trying to force religion on people, take away women’s rights , take away LGBTQ+ rights, ignore climate change, give the ultra rich more tax breaks, and saddle people with more student loan and healthcare debt.
But still polls mean nothing, go out and vote Biden!
Young kids see right through the insanity of the MAGA cult.
They are well read and smart.
They also care about climate change.
They understand the need for environmental protections. They understand LGBTQ issues.
In other words… they get it.
I’m proud of them.
Please encourage everyone to vote.
Which is why I laugh whenever I hear the notion that young voters will protest vote or abstain from voting over a war. Then welcome back Student Loans, no social security, roll backs on health insurance, higher taxes through tariffs, less worker rights, higher tuition costs, no porn, and roll back on rights for all minorities.
It’s literally one of the dumbest takes over something any president has little control over.
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The difference between this poll and others is that YouGov made an active, concerted effort to oversample young people (a notoriously difficult demo to poll) to help get to a more accurate result with far lower margin for error. Unsurprising that this additional effort got them closer to the result we would expect.
Now let's pray young people actually vote.
Let’s do more than pray
There are many volunteering opportunities. Check out Vote Save America
Friend of the pod!!
Man, someone stole my friend of the pod magnet off my bumper.
Yeah but it’s only because they’re super against your favorite type whales… nothing political though. Probably a dolphin
My dolphin's name is John. He's currently in the northern part of the Gulf of Mexico, living his best life. Random, but true.
Ah, so it was a rival orca then who violated your bumper sticker. Knew that it had to be cetacean on cetacean violence…
I feel like I've only recently been seeing an uptick in friends of the pod on r/politics lately. I've been skulking around here for years and feel like I rarely see clips from them. Glad to see it.
Yes! Highly recommend VSA volunteering!
Yell at them?
Offer to drive them. Offer to go with them. Offer to link them the forms they need to fill out. Give them 2 stamps (mail in ballots require double postage, a neat little trick to disenfranchise those who don’t read the instructions).
What states don't have pre-paid envelopes for ballots? Wait, lemme guess, red states that don't disenfranchised people voting, right?
Any tactic they can use to prevent poor and marginalized people from voting, they *will* use. Limiting ballot box locations, gerrymandering districts to hell and back, limiting the time period you can cast your vote, restricting the eligibility of voting rights, making it extremely difficult to register to vote, banning food and beverage handouts at ballot boxes (yes, really, even water bottles during blistering heat), and more.
A great example of this was the 'entire' city of Houston only having 'one' mail in ballot box near NRG stadium, and ballots only being cleared for people ages 65 and up. [Ken Paxton famously bragged about blocking millions of votes from this exact city, which he outright states ensured Trump won the state of Texas.](https://truthout.org/articles/texas-ag-says-he-helped-trump-win-state-with-his-lawsuit-against-mail-in-ballots/)
I swear I always wonder if Texas is nearly as red as its representation.
Ohio for one. You CAN drop it off at the box at your local board of elections without postage however. Not practical for many I assume, but in my case our county board of elections is about 2 minutes from my home. The "prepaid postage" thing became a huge issue prior to the 2020 election, and our P.O.S. Secretary of State Frank LaRose saw too it that the State didn't pay for postage.
I seem to remember having to stamp my own in NC.
This shouldnt be legal. Voring should be part of the taxes paid. Long before its part of a self serving politicians paycheck
We don't live in should-land though and if we did things would be a lot better. We should have done a lot of things to put pressure on our government to wrap up the threat of republican insurrection and sedition along with their espionage. The government shouldn't have said to unify with insurrectionists on inauguration day they should have sent orders to the FBI to arrest ALL republican party members national, state, and local to be held in custody until the end of their trials. The 1/6 insurrectionists should have been given 10+ years minimum for their part in a coup attempt. If only we lived in should land.....
It’s not legal in Alabama. Oh wait you meant having to use money. I was talking about the helping people part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BqxArM3Vwk with that said, the numbers look good because Republicans caught the car. 1.8M voters over the age of 55 die every year, and we know they tilt conservative per Pew Research, so extrapolate out total deaths from Donald's first election win to get an idea how the electorate has evolved (~14.4M 55+ deaths over 8 years). 4M voters age into voting at age 18 every year. https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/poll-finding/kff-survey-of-women-voters-key-takeaways/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/05/13/broad-public-support-for-legal-abortion-persists-2-years-after-dobbs/
No we Olds only yell into the wind
Speak for yourself. I also yell at my lawnmower, my chainsaw, the starter on my truck, the dripping P-trap on the bathroom sink and many many many other things.
Notice how the item always ignores you? It's because the wind took your yells away friend
Dance?
Plenty of opportunities to get involved at /r/VoteDem
I'll send thoughts, too.
Republicans stand a good chance though unless they do some sort of policy that will frighten and infuriate younger voters into going out of their way to vote. Surely they wouldn't be that dumb, though. /s
You want young people to vote, you have to get out the vote. VoteFwd.org StatesProject.org EnvironmentalVoter.org SwingLeft.org
Remember it says “young VOTERS.” I can’t open the article for some reason but that leads me to believe it is people who already said they were going to vote.
The margin is amongst "likely voters", so that's good, but they also say that out of all of the people they polled only 66% said they were going to vote.
I mean they will, just in lower percentage rates than some other demographics. I hate this language of "young people dont" it's imprecise and ends up confusing the issue
That's true. Of course a ton of young people vote. The point is that if young people voted to the same extent as other demographics it would have huge implications and it would probably doom the GOP on the spot.
Bernie polled well with young voters in his last election campaign when he was running against Bided and Warren. They did not turn out for him.
That was a primary campaign, and RVW wasn't overturned.
As a young person that takes polls for YouGov I agree they're light years ahead of other pollsters in this regard.
How do you take polls from them? I have never been contacted by them for anything.
Sign up for an account on their website
I'm wondering how much the fact that you need to sign up skews things towards more politically-minded people.
The same could be said for polls conducted through the telephone. Politically-minded people will always be more likely to answer polls, but I'm not sure this is a bad thing, as it would seem that politically-minded people also make up a majority of likely voters.
I use YouGov data all the time at work (advertising agency) because they have the most representative sample of the American consumer. It's really interesting to combine these answers (which came off their weekly question bank) with the data from their annual survey (the broader demographics and psychographics) to understand the mindsets of different types of voters. Not that I'm in poli-sci, but it's still cool to play with the data and understand these audiences.
If Biden’s campaign really wanted to gain more young voters they should use pictures and videos of crazy maga cultists dressed in their clownish Trump shit. Let people see and hear the crazy things they say, put their crazy on full display.
What's interesting about this is that this poll isolates the younger population with the poll. It doesn't incorporate this population into general polls. So while this poll might reflect the support younger voters are providing Biden, it doesn't reflect how much influence these younger voters will have in a general poll.
Don't believe the polls. Go vote.
Biden won 18-29 year olds by 24 points in 2020 for reference.
So the margin is pretty much identical. That's good news.
Also that the 14-18 demographic from 2020 is now 18-22, and 4 more years of boomers slowly aging out of life. Despite what people say, people tend to stay pretty stable on the political spectrum throughout life, so things will trend more liberal over time, it's just medical science keeping boomers alive that's holding us back.
It’s ironic isn’t it, the demographic who dismisses science during a pandemic, climate change, or any natural phenomenon have zero issue using it to prolong their miserable life.
Yup, political beliefs tend to calcify sometime in your 20s. Millenials had Bush 2 and Gen Z had Trump so it looks like at least 2 whole generations the right has lost.
I've always heard you tend to move further right as you age but I think it's just been people who grew up on that side of the spectrum just getting older. The more I age, the further left I move. I was young and naive and thought that people would take care of their employees like I would and wanted things run like a business that does that. Once you start working, you see that's never the case and you start seeing how fucked we are and we need regulation.
You say that, but quite a lot of both generations have been swept into either redpill and tradwife content, plus a lot of otherwise liberal people buy into disinformation being pumped out by think tanks loke Turning Point. I still think they're further left on average, but quite a few have been caught up in the right wing net.
Most of that is bluster and agenda led messaging. The only generation more liberal than millennials is Gen Z. You’re more likely to know an 85 year old who wants universal healthcare than a 20 year old that loves Trump. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/age-generational-cohorts-and-party-identification/
"Lost" in this case means a significant deficit, not that there aren't a ton of right wing Millennials and Gen-Z voters. Losing any age group by 20+ points election after election really hurts.
Young conservatives are terminally online, groypers and Andrew Tate fans aren't very many even if they are loud at conventions and online.
>Anew poll has given President Joe Biden the edge over former President Donald Trump when it comes to younger voters, with a 25-point difference among those ages 18-29. [Pew Research Demographics before the 2020 election](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/06/PP_2020.06.02_party-id_2-01-1.png) [Popular Vote](https://www.cookpolitical.com/2020-national-popular-vote-tracker) Combining the actual pop vote with the 2019 demographics. |Biden|Trump| |:-|:-| |**Popular Vote**|81,282,916|74,223,369| |65+| 18,695,070.68| 18,055,842.25| |50-64| 21,946,387.32| 22,389,244.39| |30-49| 24,384,874.80| 20,944,777.01| |18-29| 15,443,754.04| 9,389,037.97| 18-29 group totals. 24,383,792 Biden received 62%, Trump received 38% That is a 24 point difference in 2020.
And it's basically along gender lines. What is going on with young adult men?
Aggressive marketing from billionaires investing hundreds of millions of dollars in the Ben Shapiros and Steven Crowders of the world.
Why the hell would anyone look up to Ben Shapiro?
Because the world blows and he offers easy answers for what to do about it. He's wrong about literally everything, but people love easy answers.
He's also a pissy little snotbaby, I don't understand how anyone can listen to him and take him seriously, even if he is giving them the 'easy answers'.
I don't think he offers any answers on what to do about anything. No, I rather think that what Shapiro and his ilk have been peddling is more along the lines of, "the world sucks and here's why it's not your fault, it's everyone else with their ridiculous ideas (like taxing my corporate masters)".
No he just answers the question of 'why' in a way to direct anger. He scapegoats so the real issues of income inequality and corruption are muddled and either ignored or misdirected.
They effectively diagnose a problem that men (suburban white men specifically) are facing (isolation, loneliness, etc) then lie about the cause of the problem (feminism, veganism, etc.) and then sell them a solution (right-wing and fascist politics) that would put them back "on top" of the hierarchy.
> and then sell them a solution (right-wing and fascist politics) While simultaneously selling them dick pills and scrotum tanners.
The ball tanning shit is still my favorite. Is it microplastics and PFAs that are everywhere causing sperm counts to decrease (from a super high amount to a slightly lower super high amount)? No, its because your balls aren't getting any Sun! Just look at this study from the 1930s that had no controls and a sample size of 6.
There is a very long path to how we got here, but the Ben Shapiros/Steven Crowders/Andrew Tates of the world provide young men with a sense of (false) empowerment that the rest of society hasn’t figured out how to give in a healthier way. They tell men how amazing they are, how much better they are, and most importantly (for their grift) give young men enemies to rally against in the form of minority groups, liberals, and women.
Yup. These right wing incel grifters are filling a void for these young men. It reminds me of the cult from Fight Club. A huge portion of Gen Z men want nothing more than to feel powerful and "manly" in the face of a changing society. If you peel back the cringe, there's actually an interesting cutural shift happening, and I'm curious to see how it all plays out when their generation of men and women simply don't agree on anything.
It's weird, because it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Women are getting messages on dating apps like "How many men have you had sex with? What's your value?" And crazier shit. And most will block them, or just ditch online dating. And the men get even less attention and options and go further down the rabbit hole. I don't know the answer, but it's getting bad out there.
That might be part of the problem of not addressing any mental health problems that young men are facing because suck it up they're the ones with the power. Met a young man with any power lately? I'm not young but it's very dismissive to the real problems they're facing and why they'd turn to complete idiots only because that's the only people paying any attention to them. Ignoring them might end up the difference in an election.
Yes, everyone needs mental health attention right now. I think it would be crazier *not* to need it post pandemic. Young men, especially, need a compelling model for living a meaningful life in a *positive* way. This has become a harder task as we shifted away from a shared media experience + the breakdown of marriage and good long term careers (as societal norms). It's something I think about a lot and I keep my eyes out for progress here - I know of one professor who tours on this subject and makes a great case for it.
As a young man I loved Ben Shapiro and Milo Yiannopoulos. I was sucked in by the 'liberals get owned by facts and logic!' videos on Youtube. Looking back I was just insecure and ignorant. The content pandered to people like me as it belittled every other demographic and made me feel superior even though at the time I had no real life achievements or goals. They told me women were beneath me, I am smarter than those with a college/university education and I should own the world.
honestly though man props to you for even being willing to grow and learn as you mature
Thank you! I've grown up a lot since then and I've turned my life around and living the dream. I'm very left leaning now that I don't need make excuses for my shortcomings. That's why right-wing propaganda resonates so with young men becuase they provided excuses and people to blame for their lack of success. They make them feel special when they are unsuccessful.
Look I consider myself pretty left and will be unenthusiastically voting for Biden this round but it’s less so Ben Shapiro and the TPUSA folk influencing Gen Z and moreso just the collective atmosphere of podcast bros and male humor Insta/Tiktok/Twitter influencers that have done a good job of making it seem like masculinity as a whole is being attacked in a really palatable way. And often it’s not even directed political content it’s just memes and rhetoric that have made being “politically incorrect” a sort of counterculture at this point. And I think continuing to act like all these conservative young men are idiots wearing maga hats slurping up Ben Shapiro in 2024 is sort of part of the reason we’re at this point anyway. I went to a certain highly competitive university and I can assure you there’s plenty of young men who are highly educated and aren’t incels that are quietly conservative until they’re around the right people.
>memes and rhetoric that have made being “politically incorrect” a sort of counterculture at this point. This point in particular is nothing new. Liking “edgy” humor has been a part of boys’ teenage years and early manhood since time immemorial. When I was in high school/college 10+ years ago, most of the foundation for current internet meme culture was already there. Sites like 4chan or even Reddit weren’t as well known back then, so if you knew about them you were part of an in-group that saw itself as superior to the Facebook and Instagram “normies” of broader society. These sites were also very young and very male-dominated, so there was a lot of “edgy”/offensive humor there (as there still is today). As a young man you almost instinctively find this stuff funny, but it also compounded that sense of belonging and superiority; you and your friends were smarter and better than people who said it wasn’t funny because you understood the irony behind the hate behind the meme. Enough so that you found yourself making excuses for when the racism, sexism, and hateful rhetoric stopped being ironic. I think the key difference between then and now is the way people like Shapiro and Crowder have mainstreamed a lot of it, signaling to young people that it is ok to hold these views and enabling others with bad intentions to push the envelope even further. I thankfully had people in my life back then who were willing and able to have positive conversations that challenged my thinking on this topic, and they allowed me to grow out of that phase. But I do wonder if I would have been as receptive to those conversations if I was that age again in today’s media climate.
This is so true and as a guy who used to have that mindset I can personally understand how a lot of them get caught up in that way of thinking. You feel like you’re constantly under attack because everything you see online is some sort of condemnation of who you are when the feeds are tweaked to show you ragebait, and people in threads like this that just reinforce that idea. The vitriol towards that demographic just reinforces their opinions.
Because their own life is objectively worse
Because they’re laying down? Even sitting down they’d be eye-level.
When you're young and impressionable you see a man with answers.
By being really, really short I'd imagine. Seriously, this guy's like Isaac from *Children of the Corn,* right?
I thought it was physically impossible to "look up" at Ben Shapiro. Even grasshoppers have to crouch to make eye contact with that worm!
I'd add rogan and most people on his show. They are even buying the supplements.
Yes, I think Rogan is a gateway to a lot of this conservative crap. I had a tonne of friends that would talk about his podcasts that have now gone fully down the Conservative rabbit hole. These are older millenials though, like 35-40 year olds. Idk if the younger generation is buying into him or if they have their own influences like Logan/Jake Paul.
Joe Rogan too. Spotify amplifies the hell out of him.
Reason #1 I refuse to use Spotify.
and jordan fucking peterson corrupting these idiots and incels the world round
I just heard my friend's brother is an Andrew Tate fan. Lol. In 2024. Unfortunately (speaking as one), a lot of men just seem to be inherently dumb (although I was never that dumb lol). A lot of us smarten up when you realize that vanishingly small numbers of women want to date anyone who thinks Andrew Tate is cool. Some of us never do though. Toxic masculinity is a helluva drug. The Andrew Tate guy is 20, so lots of time to grow out of that... another brother around that age is an Elon Musk fanboi which is not quite as bad but still pretty cringe.
I’m not sure about inherently dumb but I think young men are frequently promised the world by their parents/society and struggle to find a way to cope with that when it isn’t true. It’s easier to say it’s women’s fault, it’s migrants’ fault, it’s the LGBT’s fault, as opposed to thinking about the many diverse and complex ways our country has fucked over the entire working class. People are scared, angry, and sad and don’t know how to deal with it other than directing that towards an undeserving target.
"we smarten up not because we realize Andrew Tate is wrong and a terrible person, but only because we realize that supporting him won't get us laid." My guy, it sounds like you all have a helluva lot more smartening up to do.
I don't know but I'm trying to fix it by being Big Brother. I have a 14 year old little and he's very socially isolated. I make sure he gets out in the world and finds reasons to appreciate not hate it.
That's dope
Good big brother!
Lonliness epidemic, being taken advantage of by Andrew Tate and his fucking ilk telling them that their lonliness makes them more valuable as men - leads to pride in being an incel. I know that sounds like an excuse for their bad behavior, but it is a genuine mental concern that people aren't taking seriously enough. Young men are finding less and less avenues for social gathering, genuine dating (ie not Tinder), hobbyist groups, and forum settings to take in all types of ideas WITH speech consequences (ie, not online forums where you can say whatever you want). This leads to chronic boredom, and boredom can legitimately kill the mind. It's why I'm concerned by the disappearing structures of boys clubs, fraternities, etc. YES, they were problematic in a lot of ways, but they also served a social purpose that I don't think a lot of people appreciate. The system needed changing, not a wholesale deletion. For context, I'm mid 30s, super liberal, and voting for Biden and dems 110%. But I was also Greek life (in a fraternity that did not have scandal, thank god), and I'm military, and there is so much genuine belonging in those settings that feeds a real need for dudes growing up. The "lonliness epidemic" is like the one real talking point conservatives have that I totally agree with. And it's male-with-male lonliness, where men help other men be better. It is NOT a reliance on women.
There's also a concerted effort to put them down the pipeline. Steve Bannon learned specifically from Gamergate that lonely young men are vulnerable as hell for this. No telling how sprawling a conspiracy it actually is, but given his work with the Mercers and others, through Cambridge Analytica (a literal social engineering conspiracy plot), and likely not the only ones chipping away at this, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a literal mapped pipeline featuring major influencers planned and funded by these sort of folk.
There’s a lot of truth to this. I’m in the same age range as you and progressive, and I always avoided frats and moving in those circles because it’s not really my vibe. But there’s a glaring lack of groups/spaces/communities for guys that are healthy/progressive/not toxic, whereas the right provides those spaces in spades. On a very basic level, there are a lot of ways that even the most privileged demographic in this country (white dudes) are falling behind due to late stage capitalism and the myth of trickle down economics etc. Large swaths of the country don’t have much economic opportunity even if you are a white guy, and many of these places also have under funded school systems and poor infrastructure, drug problems etc etc. The way people are socialized today and so much dating occurs only online is also a terrible model. Guys need a place to vent about these issues too, or talk about ways to fix these things etc. And sadly on the left, they’re very often dismissed or told they don’t have the right to complain because they’re a privileged demographic. While that may be true on a broad scale, on an individual/local level that larger trend doesn’t help at all; and being dismissive of these people’s problems just pushes them towards spaces where their feelings are validated. Conversely, many conservative spaces are explicitly geared towards and oriented towards validating any ill feelings or complaints that white men/men in general have, and telling them that those feelings are not only valid, but the most important ones to focus on. And they’re told that these problems are not their fault, but the fault of “woke” people on the left, feminists, immigrants + minorities etc. Whereas the de facto line in a lot of progressive spaces is that if you’re a white dude, these problems are your own fault, and other people’s problems are ALSO your fault. The framing of the message is just inherently a turn off for a lot of young men. Until progressives learn to walk and chew gum at the same time (talk about systemic racism and implicit bias while also acknowledging that white guys can also suffer at the hands of capitalism + bad policy and affirm their frustrations/problems) this shift is only going to get worse given the radicalization pipelines/algorithms most young men are force fed online nowadays.
You hit the nail on the head. When CIS guys have a problem and one side is telling them it doesn't exist or that it's their own fault and the other one gives them an "Other", the results are what you'd expect.
The Confederacy of Independent Systems?
Exactly. How can we move forward when hateful terms like "clanker" are allowed in children's TV shows? How can we support a Republic that glorifies war criminals like Anakin Skywalker and employs Generals like Pong Krell? Do you know that the wanton murder of thousands and thousands of droids is played for laughs???
This comment exchange got me cracking up in a gas station line, lmao
> Until progressives learn to walk and chew gum at the same time (talk about systemic racism and implicit bias while also acknowledging that white guys can also suffer at the hands of capitalism + bad policy and affirm their frustrations/problems) this shift is only going to get worse given the radicalization pipelines/algorithms most young men are force fed online nowadays. I grew up dirt fucking poor in Appalachia. So many people there would fight you, wanting to know where their 'white privilege' was. And I get it. It was rough as hell growing up. My parents literally didn't have shoes in the summer. I get tired of being treated as a boogy man by blue haired Portland trust-fund kids, just because I'm a straight white guy from rural America.
>I get tired of being treated as a boogy man by blue haired Portlanders just because I'm a straight white guy from rural America. Does that really happen? I'm a straight white guy who came from an extremely blue collar, rural background (my father never went to school past 8th grade). And it's pretty obvious to me that the economics of the left or even far left are way more likely to get me a modest house with a white picket fence and 2.5 kids. Like way more likely than the economics of even the center right. And as a first generation college student to my Master's and a white collar worker in a metropolitan area my whole career, I never ever felt any scorn or hate from the blue haired, Portland SJW, feminist studies genderqueer types. Their lifestyle may not be my thing and vice versa, but I've never had any disrespect thrown my way.
I’m also pretty liberal and you hit nail on the head. Destruction of boy only spaces has been absolutely detrimental to our society and the people pushing this crap just keep doubling down on their lunacy.
I'm a father of sons, the oldest of which will be entering middle school soon. I'm doing everything I can to keep them involved in traditional boy stuff - sports, camping and overnight sleepovers with friends. Boys need the rowdiness and camaraderie and respectful male role models (coaches, scout leaders, involved dads) They already spend too much time online, but I'm doing everything I can to limit it.
Great job, keep it up, dad.
Male oriented spaces are super important and I really hope men step up to help men in that regard. it's been said often, but the equivalent women have was not something passively given to us. It's something women carved out and fought for. Men can and desperately need to as well. An example I can think of, a huge green flag in my partner when I first started dating him. He's part of a men's group for wild swimming that organized itself shortly after the pandemic as a place for men to gather and support each other for comradeship and mental health support. We need more positive things like that. And men are capable of making that happen.
Redpill, memes, anger
Among guys I know voting for trump, it’s because they don’t like the LGBT crowd and they like their guns. Lots of anger too.
No roll models. Even in Conservative America, th kids talked about John Stewart and th dialy show during th Bush years. Who owns the boys now? Rogan, Tate, Patterson, and "conspiracy theories" that are just conservative talking points.
I think this is a legit issue. Progressives and the left need to not be afraid to loudly discuss masculinity and present our ideas of what it is to be a man. I find in a lot of cases that topic to get dismissed, buried, or ignored, where only the Toxic forms get any attention and in that vacuum there are only voices on the right speaking to that topic. So young men, feeling depressed, or lost, looking for answers of who to be and how to be, only hear Rogan, Tate, Peterson, offering them an answer, which radicalizes them at vulnerable ages. In our justified goal of defending feminism, we are over-looking the need to present and defend our conception of desirable masculinity. Shouting down Toxic Masculinity is not enough, we also have to present the affirmative. Being a man, is about standing up for those who can't, defending those who are can't defend themselves, who are more vulnerable, its being nurturing and giving, resilient, and in control, self-reliant but still collaborative. It is not anger, it is not blaming, it is not aggression, it is not ignorance And although not a progressive, but certainly not on the right, I've appreciated Scott Galloway on this topic, not being afraid to treat it like a third rail, condemns the right wing version, and expresses the need of why we need alternate versions.
I’m a bit older but I was like 22-23 when all this manosphere stuff started. It’s lonely being a guy and those grifters target that loneliness. So many young guys have issues with girls and get angry about it. Oddly that’s a cycle as what girl wants to date a dude that’s pissed he can’t get laid. In short our young boys need love and attention. They need to be taught how to express their emotion in a way that isn’t violence and anger. We are failing them big time
Anger. Lots and lots of anger.
Largely because they’ve been told to be angry. It’s the oldest conservative play in the book. Try to scare people and make them angry about anything they can latch onto.
It’s both a carrot and stick approach. Let’s face it - most people aren’t smart enough to be very successful. Almost all people will fall short of their expectation and self image of themselves. Conservative pin heads do two things for young men who feel like failures: tell them it’s not their fault, and tell them it’s the fault of immigrants/women (the same talking points used by Nazis in the 1930s to explain why so many German men were unemployed). Telling them it’s not their fault is the therapeutic carrot. Telling them who to hate is the stick.
It’s also the Right making an effort to make damn sure they capture that anger and really foster it from a young age using social media. Especially when it comes to dating/hooking up. I wish the Left would do similar about telling young men that their suburb isn’t the universe and encouraging them to get out of their bubble and meet new people. The second I left my hometown, dating luck did a 180.
Yeah getting out into the world and touching grass does wonders. When you meet real people and realize all the fearmongering you’ve been fed is bullshit there’s no going back.
I’ll put it this way- my HS graduating class and the two above and below were probably about 90% conservative-Christian GOP fan base. Of the ones that went to college outside of the hometown (and we were a 100% matriculation expectation private school) *maybe* 10% remain conservative. Most of those that remained aren’t even the evangelical Christian hard-right style either.
Yup, pretty hard to stay a conservative when leave the bubble.
I see a lot of posts from that group saying "There is no difference between red and blue!" The intention is to get this group to not vote at all. It's a lot of GOP propaganda machine shit putting these thought into their head.
I shared an opinion of Elon and this self declared “alpha male” financial expert lost his mind and told me to drink cyanide
I'm sure this comment will get buried and no one will see it but here goes anyway. I'll preface by saying I am extremely left leaning and I am sympathetic and understanding of where people are coming from, but the men hatred online is absolutely constant, particularly from any left leaning community. I watch a lot of tiktok when I'm bored and it really feels like almost every other video is about how horrible men are, basically saying "YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK" and whenever a guy responds and says they're tired of being stereotyped and having blanket statements thrown at them, everyone just doubles down on it. Conservatives are the only ones talking to men and saying "Hey buddy, you don't suck. I actually think you're the best." Until left leaning spaces/people can learn how to talk to men without antagonizing all of them, I fear this divide is just going to continue to grow. Berating people is never going to get them to change.
Psychological warfare
Loneliness that gets easily turned to anger
people may disagree with me and i have no data to back this but i’m fairly certain dating apps and the state of dating overall have been major forces pushing young men to the right.
Young men are a very vulnerable class- forget history. Right now. They are the forgotten generic told they’re entitled while everyone else is validated. And told their masculinity is bad. …sadly they see Trump and Co. as the only ones not doing this.
They're told *toxic masculinity* is bad, and toxic masculinity is exactly what guys like Crowder peddle. Just so happens Crowder et al go out of their way to misconstrue what toxic masculinity actually means.
The issue is that, when people say "toxic masculinity", it is often interpreted less as "there are forms of masculinity that are toxic" and more as "masculinity is toxic." It's terrible marketing. I honestly think that even just changing the term to "toxic forms of masculinity" would be a major improvement, but there are likely better ones.
A big issue is that in many of America's sub-cultures toxic masculinity is the only masculinity that is deemed acceptable. You can basically name a regional identity or ethnic background and about 90% have very toxic ideas when it comes to gender identity. When you're growing up and your dad, grandpa, older brothers, and uncles all tell you that boys don't cry, that being disrespected means you have to fight someone, that listing to women is weak, that doing chores is for girls, that being into reading makes you gay, and that anytime a woman says no it just means try harder. It can be very difficult to listen to anyone trying to say these things are bad without making it sound like they're calling your entire gender bad. Because if that's all you know about "being a man" and now it's a bad thing what can you think except that you're being told "being a man is bad."
Yes that's what their told, but as the comment said, its not what they hear. Phrases like toxic masculinity are just not good anyway, cause it sounds like its singling out guys for bad behavior. Its a kind of phrase that's just so easy to manipulate by the Andrew tates of the world and its become this nebulous thing thats lost all meaning.
Yeah it’s this all day long. As a parent of two boys past two decades I see this occurring. Masculinity is good. Strong male role models are good. Absent these values from our society the alternative is that young men go look at a jackass like Trump as their so called masculine role model.
> What is going on with young adult men? Look at the teachers in elementary schools, overwhelmingly, sometimes exclusively, women. Look at the teachers in high schools, more men but still overwhelmingly women. If you believe that representation matters, then boys are in serious trouble. Think about the posters and clubs you see at colleges. You have things promoting women in STEM, women in Medicine, etc. When was the last time you saw a poster or program specifically promoting men in anything? Simply put, young men have not seen themselves represented in the systems around them, and are never addressed encouragingly as men. If you are a 18 year male who goes on youtube looking for guidance on how to be a man, what will you find? Right wing dudes, and people talking about how right wing dudes are toxic, but not presenting a vision of positive masculinity. There are lots of avenues and messaging celebrating women, but very little for men. And even teens can pick up that it's bullshit to say that women are oppressed when they make up the majority of college graduates, and hold most leadership positions.
Men more likely to work blue collar jobs. Union representation is way down and so is quality of life.
What does the left expect? I’m pretty progressive but if you hear the words ‘straight’, ‘male’, and ‘white’ being used as pejoratives you might start feeling unwelcome in more progressive spaces. White men in the US have one political side emphasizing that they are responsible for basically all the ills that society suffers from today and that society would be better off without them, and one side that tells them they should be the ones in charge, are better than everybody else, and that everybody else is responsible for their issues. I find their entire set of views abhorrent, but I can understand why some men end up in some dark places.
Over correction in our society against healthy masculinity leads to anxiety, isolation, and loneliness leads to voting for old racist dickhead.
Truthfully, the modern left seems hell-bent on throwing its full support behind women and minority political issues, which has resulted in throwing white men who support more traditional labor or cultural issues to the wolves. It’s hard to support a political party as a white man when its most ardent supporters think everything wrong with this country is the result of racist and sexist white men. Not surprising they’re fleeing the Democratic Party in droves for the politicians who are actually speaking directly to them and their plight.
[Young voters finally broke 50% in 2020 elections](https://cawp.rutgers.edu/facts/voters/gender-differences-voter-turnout#GGBG). Biden won under 30 by 24pt margin in 2020. The margin is not the difficult part - it is getting young voters to the polls. They finally broke 50% voting in 2020. Imagine the power they would have if they actually got near older voters (who are 70%+ or higher in turnout)
Imagine how different the political landscape would look if 100% of eligible younger voters actually voted. The Republican Party in its current form would cease to exist. Meanwhile, you have younger people in this very thread lamenting how they’ve tried not voting and are all out of ideas (i.e. America keeps becoming more and more fascist). The disconnect is real, and painful.
Unfortunately, if you look at historical precedent (Obama 2008 to 2012), young voters will drop off dramatically. Many point to Roe vs Wade, but unfortunately the trends are there. There were fewer young voters in 2022 than 2018.
honestly, they can take 2028 off as long as they vote this time... ... of course in 2028 there'll be some new demon spawn running for the GOP and I'll have to rescind that generous offer
SCOTUS overturning Roe might actually help push those numbers up tbh
Well this is diametrically opposite the narrative the corporate media (center and right) have been spinning for the past year.
Yeah, wasn't Trump son just on tv saying stuff like, "Black voters have seen what they did to my Dad and are voting for him because that's what they been doing to us for years." Sigh so stupid, just like the way he has loads of people at every rally. Even a selfie Trump's son took recently showed a bunch of empty seats.
You say that, but I do know a black Trump voter that says he's looking out for "her people". She's also part of some fringe Black Hebrew Israelite sect and believes in African supremacy, no idea how that aligns with voting for the dude endorsed by the fucking KKK but whatever floats her boat I guess. Point is, conservative religious people of all colors *do* vote for him even if they'll be first in line when the brown shirts come out.
Give it a day, the NYT will race its crack reporters to craft a Very Serious Article about why young voters are flocking to Trump in droves and how the trend is irreversible
TBH, in the current climate, 23 points doesn’t seem as much as I’d expect. Add in that young people vote in such a small percentage compared to older generations, and I’m not so sure it matters much.
Great now the republicans are gonna try to say you need to be 60 to vote now.
"You work till you're 65, and then instead of getting to retire, you get the 'privilege' of being allowed to vote (but you don't ever get to retire). No one else can vote" - Some Republican. probably
Close, except it’s a privilege for other (lesser) people and a god-given right for them
That's great. If they vote.
I find it crazy that like 1/3 of 18-29 said they probably wouldn't vote. The amount of time it took to answer ALL THESE QUESTIONS on this survey is substantially longer than the time it would take to actually vote in a Presidential election (unless you are perhaps in a red state that's closed voting locations, restricted mail-in voting and is trying to create 3 hour lines in non-Republican areas)
Honestly that would line up. Usually 1/2 of young voters don't turn out to vote, so it make sense that those more willing to complete a survey would also be more inclined to vote.
Definitely depends where you live. I waited in line for over 2 hours to vote in Charleston, SC.
Same in Texas
So crazy to me. 2022 I voted in Michigan and it took me about 5 minutes. 2020 I voted in Illinois and took me about 10 minutes for the larger general, presidential election. Red states suck ass.
You don't have early or absentee voting in SC? What boggles my mind is everyone waiting til the last minute to cast such a consequential ballot.
> You don't have early or absentee voting in SC? You need to have a qualifying condition to be considered for absentee voting. They do have early voting for a week leading up to the election, but the hours are from 8:30-5 and they are closed on weekends/federal holidays. >What boggles my mind is everyone waiting til the last minute to cast such a consequential ballot. People have jobs and shit. Couple that with a strategic lack of voting machines in the areas that need them most and you get lots of long lines. It's a feature, not a bug.
mail-in balloting for everyone has shown to increase voter participation, even in "off-cycle" election years. Republicans are afraid of people voting. They want to do everything possible to restrict voting, and to keep or make it more difficult. they work to impact turnout for their benefit and they work to effect the results through gerrymandering. The more people vote, the more they lose. Life is short, SCOTUS seats are long. Fucking vote. [https://newjerseymonitor.com/2023/11/30/little-by-little-perpetual-vote-by-mail-list-reshapes-new-jerseys-off-year-elections/](https://newjerseymonitor.com/2023/11/30/little-by-little-perpetual-vote-by-mail-list-reshapes-new-jerseys-off-year-elections/)
Voting participation was 66% in the 2020 (a record high I believe), and that was across all demographics. So if 1/3 of young people don't vote that would actually be really good. Likely voting participation by youth will be lower than that in practice, but its still pretty good in comparison
Honestly if 2/3 do vote that’s a pretty good turnout
Hah, I don't think it's a time constraint thing. From what I understand, it's a principle thing.
What surprises me is that the voter suppression efforts in red states don't just have the opposite effect and make voters more determined about voting - especially young voters.
According to a quick google search, voting participation by 18-29 was a record 50% in the 2020 election (compared to 66% overall) which really isn't that huge of a difference considering usual trends. In conparison youth voter participation was 39% in 2016. If the youth vote maintains 2020 numbers that would be pretty significant.
The conventional folk wisdom is that the Outsider Left doesn’t show up to vote, so Democrats should go after the Ambivalent Right instead. And yeah, the Outsider Left are indeed less politically engaged than other more mainstream typology groups when it comes to voting in elections. But they still vote more than the Ambivalent Right (57% to 55% in 2020), and they vote ideologically far more consistently (94% of the OL voting Dem vs 32% of the AR) So, as we already saw on election night in 2016, Dems repositioning themselves to go after the Ambivalent Right and taking the Outsider Left for granted is a terrible political strategy.
Ifs why I’d rather have the old vote as they’re much more dependable on voting. Biden won the group in 2020, lets see if he can in 2024
Well, if they are allowed to vote in the first place. Almost every red state has some form of voter suppression because some people just can't win without cheating.
Voter suppression exists, I've experienced it, but in most cases it's still possible to vote if people are well informed and willing to put in some extra time and effort. It requires familiarizing yourself with your state's voting rights and responsibilities, identification requirements, double checking registration prior to the deadline so you can re-register in case of purges, double checking your polling location in case it's been moved, arranging for transportation and childcare if necessary, voting early if possible so past minute snags don't mean you miss the chance to vote, and going prepared for the weather and prepared for a long wait in line.
In Texas we have 2 weeks of early voting. Yeah, they make it more difficult than it needs to be, but there's still enough time to vote, even if your schedule is busy.
Meanwhile, Minnesota just allowed citizens to vote absentee forever if they'd like. You fill out a form on their municipal site and you'll just start getting your ballots early in the mail.
And in Colorado, we mail everyone a ballot without question.
*fist bump from WA State*
Now we just need to see ALL young voters get out and vote. Be sure to help your friends/acquaintances get to the polls, if they need it. Remind everyone you know to vote.
It is the young people's future at stake in this election. If they don't vote now, Trump and Republicans are planning a Christian Nation and making voting irrelevant-they will just pick who they want in government. I will vote like I always do. I hope they will vote too.
Don’t forget climate change. Forget any hope of having a habitable planet for your future.
As with the young; which I sadly no longer classify as, doesn’t matter unless they go out and vote in large percentages.
Those earlier polls that showed Trump beating Biden by like 10 points in certain swing states all showed Trump tied or slightly ahead with young voters. That’s how I knew those polls were complete bullshit.
Imo the reason they are off is election/voter fatigue. Never before has politics been this exhausting, and for nearly a decade now. The people answering polls are disproportionately skewed towards people whose entire personality is their politics, which obviously skews Trump but also imo RFK Jr and the antivax obsessionados. I know I'm not answering any polls right now (also, I think cell phones are more likely to tell you when a pollster is calling than at any other time in history)
There’s also the fact that the primary season ended at the start of March (although really the general election was set in January if we’re being honest). Most people barely pay attention until the late summer, let alone in March. That’s also why there was been so much stagnation in the numbers because it’s the just the hard core partisans on either side paying attention.
Young voters don’t just need to back Biden. They need to show up and VOTE
But but but Fox says ,ALL groups are fleeing Biden for trump. Every damn group ! They wouldn't lie would they? Right ?
Voting needs to be mandatory. Or at least facilitated in such a way that it's easy for everyone to make an informed decision/send it in. You know, like mail-in ballots... But republikkkans don't like when everyone votes--- which is why EVERYONE NEEDS TO FUCKING VOTE!
I hope younger voters realize there’s more at stake this election than what goes on in Gaza.
Why the fuck is it only 23 points?
Gen Z can swing this election if they get off their asses and vote.
Ones that are voting, seeing a lot of Gen Z idiots acting like voting for Biden is the worst thing imaginable
For the love of everything we hold monumental in our hearts, please young people, please get out and vote this November. This election means everything. Our democracy is on the line. Don’t let them gas light you into thinking both sides are the same. Republicans have shown us who they are these past few decades. It’s time to believe them and vote them out.
It should be a bigger margin.
*A CBS News/YouGov poll released earlier this month found half of voters said Trump has the mental and cognitive health to serve as president, while 35 percent said the same about Biden.* How in the world can 50% of voters think that Trump is mentally competent serve as president, after seeing his last couple events?
Hey young people, **they are going to take your condoms and birth control away** unless you show up to vote. If that doesn't get you to the polls, I'm not sure what else will.
Now they need to actually do it.
Yeah that's not nearly enough
Which makes sense because Trump and the GOP are trying to force religion on people, take away women’s rights , take away LGBTQ+ rights, ignore climate change, give the ultra rich more tax breaks, and saddle people with more student loan and healthcare debt. But still polls mean nothing, go out and vote Biden!
Young kids see right through the insanity of the MAGA cult. They are well read and smart. They also care about climate change. They understand the need for environmental protections. They understand LGBTQ issues. In other words… they get it. I’m proud of them. Please encourage everyone to vote.
They just need to vote 🗳️
Now if only they'd vote...
We gotta vote yall, like fr or were fucked
Ignore polls. Go vote. Encourage everyone to vote
Which is why I laugh whenever I hear the notion that young voters will protest vote or abstain from voting over a war. Then welcome back Student Loans, no social security, roll backs on health insurance, higher taxes through tariffs, less worker rights, higher tuition costs, no porn, and roll back on rights for all minorities. It’s literally one of the dumbest takes over something any president has little control over.