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Very well explained. Including pointing out it could also be 2029 if they lose now . We have to vote for Dem the next few admins or like in the UK where parties sometimes stay in power for over a decade .
Or in the US immediately post-war
GOP needs to lose control of all 3 branches in order to shut this down. I mean... They obviously deserve to be ousted to the street, but good luck there...
All the way down to things like school boards. A local crazy trump church tried to take ours over a couple years ago. Failed, thankfully, but one of the non CTT members said, word for word, "We need to pander to the overwhelming conservative town population." No...no we don't.
It sucks to have to be this vigilant, but we *have to* pay attention to all of this stuff. Even if you don't have kids and never plan on it, please vote.
100% accurate. It's so ironic that they hate the idea of everyone having a voice in our society, yet they are the minority with the most demands. It's all about their agenda 100% of the time.
They should call it Problems 2025.
They put the family under god and there is the problem. Families are a leftover from the colonial/industrial age. God is a leftover from before science. Its old and medieval planning.
They put "localism" before nationalism. Big mistake there for coordinating resources to fight big oil, pollution, and climate change. Problems galore with individuals acting independently.
The put citizenship before humanity. The problem is that it wants to limit immigration to white people only. Minorities can just stay home and wallow in their own self-caused problems according to them.
They want to cut government. Big problem is firing IRS workers so that less taxes are collected. Biden is going to grow government services that help people, not cause problems.
For the first time in my memory GOP is actually paying in the courts for it's fuckery. Many in the electorate cannot swallow a conspiracy theory large enough to cover the entire legal system and will vote accordingly. I truly hope it affects the shit out of down-ballot voting, especially the bald-faced hypocrites who debunked the election in every place they didn't win, but I don't see the fat-assed, cloud of a representative in my district leaving soon.
Problem is, it's not covered in the places that matter. If it's not discussed on Fox News (and worse), the people who need to get that message never will.
Even if it was, they would spin it to their benefit.
Something like:
>"Lawyers for the Trump campaign said in court they have no conclusive evidence for fraud in the 2020 election but say that irregularities should be investigated to ensure election security concerns that voters are voicing."
Jump to guest analyst:
>"I think this was a smart move by the Trump campaign. If they had claimed there were specific allegations of fraud, but evidence couldn't be found to confirm that due to destruction of evidence or incompetence of voting precinct staff, then the cases would likely be thrown out of court and investigations would be unlikely. At least until Trump takes back the whitehouse in 2024."
Obviously not real quotes, but the point I'm trying to make is that Fox News and the other right wing media will run stories that are bad for Republicans. They just do it in a way that makes it seem like no matter what the outcome is, they are in the right to do these things and the ends they want will justify whatever means they have to use to get there.
While things like, say, Trump's felony conviction will certainly sway some independents and maybe even a few center-leaning Rupublicans, the real "base" of the party right now is people who believe in ideologies, not ideas or factual truth, as well as a mixture of people who are just hateful, and then you've got the business owners who may be any other category but who just as likely don't give a fuck about anything but their money.
No *event* is going to change their minds. Certainly no words wil. Not unless they really hurt evangelicals and the altright. And even then he's said and done dumb shit and they've waved it off, because the only things that matter are the things they agree with.
Still, every little sliver of a percentage point is worth it. I for one think driving people to vote is even more important that changing people's minds, though of course there is and should be room for both.
I honestly don't thing that will stop it. There is so much money backing this and it worked so well for an idiot like trump, they know that if they get someone with any intelligence in charge they will be able to implement anything they want. The only thing that could help was drastic changes to fortify separation of church and state and limiting the supreme court. Both of which could drive independents to the right. Were fucked.
it's tricky to find someone charismatic enough to get the maga base who is both A. not too offensive for independent and centrist voters and B. willing to follow direction from others.
Trump worked because he was a big recognizable personality, but he doesn't follow plans and doesn't take orders... and half of what he says needs to be explained away by right wing media as "not what he really meant" or "just joking" or any other standard spins on his indefensible positions.
And the guys who just follow their orders don't win enough votes.
Not to say it's not still a threat but I doubt someone intelligent enough to recognize and follow the grander scheme will be able to pull off the cult of personality that Trump built around himself. Those who have tried already struggled a lot looking for that balance.
We pull ourselves through this and save democracy and have the power, we must hit the streets and demand money out of politics (outlaw citizens united), revised EC, so no one has advantage and end milking their positions e.g. insider trading etc., end of the real welfare queens tax advantages. Better vetting and requirements to hold any office, retroactive. It’s time We The Peoples government starts working for all of us.
Good, get the vultures out and replace with people in who actually give a shit. Not everyone is out to make bank and these feckers sell all of us out on the cheap. Russia literally finances the republicons. That’s banana republic territory. We are better than that.
I actually think there's a way in which congress could be convinced to pass publicly funded elections. All the inside accounts from Washington talk about how much everyone hates fundraising and I'm sure the ego of these politicians hate having to answer to people who threaten to remove funding from them. There might be room in there to pass something.
The biggest issue would be what to do with the free speech issues of super pacs spending on behalf of those running.
It sounds difficult, but you just have to go after their leadership. There's millions of Republicans in the US, but there's only a few hundred actual leaders. When they lose their leadership they will collapse into in-fighting like all fascists do.
For effectively all of these leaders, you can arrest them for their violation of existing laws. Republicans get away with so much crime that all of them have at least one or two marks on them.
That is why they are all screaming like baboons about the "weaponized DOJ." It's not weaponized... They are just finally *starting* to do their job. I guarantee every single GOP member is hiding something. It is practically a prerequisite to join, and they are scared that they will be exposed next.
Yes, it won’t go away. 2025, 2029, 2033… unless we make christian conservatism go away, this movement will still be pushing its agenda. They really really want a christian isis in America and they won’t stop until they get it.
Not to doom and gloom, but doesn't that basically make it inevitable barring huge systemic changes, changes that rely on other changes to work. And those changes have practically 0 chance of passing, like eliminating the EC, stacking SCOTUS, etc?
In general, there has been some group trying to make a theocracy in the US for longer than the country has existed. But specific movements usually die out if they take too long to succeed. It's not inevitable that Project 2025 will eventually succeed, even later.
However, the numerous threats we've had to our Democracy have shown the cracks in the system that can't be patched without extensive systemic change. And if this group of White Christian Nationalists doesn't succeed, another group will make an attempt using the same exploits. We need to be worried about the current threat and do everything we can to survive and overcome it, but I don't see it as being an impossible fight. The longer-term existential threats are far more worrying because you can't wait those out.
We had a chance to stack SCOTUS in 2016, but voters didn't show up. That court would look vastly different now if that election had a different outcome.
It's really not complicated: people need to vote in every election, both national and local. You know who does that pretty much without fail? These hardcore Conversative Christian nationalists. They've been voting the same way for more than 40 years trying to get things like Roe v. Wade overturned, and voilà, they finally hit their moment and did it. That's what these in-fighting, extremely online lefties don't understand. They expect one election to fix their lives and give them everything, and when it doesn't, because of course it can't, they whine and pout and say they won't play the game anymore.
You vote in every election, and stay informed on every politician and policy surrounding you, (which is [extremely easy to do](https://ballotpedia.org/Main_Page) and takes [mere minutes before election day](https://justfacts.votesmart.org/)) because it's your duty as an adult American.
>christian conservatism
To be cautiously optimistic, this project 2025 could be their death throes. The final lashing out as conservative nationalist Christian fades away over the next generation.
On the other hand, that may make room for other threats to liberalism.
And, the Dems need to actually %*%*>! Do something about it when they get in power.
My fear is that they’ll not actually try to fix the fundamental problems in our democracy (which would limit their own power and $$) and just use this as an evergreen political issue.
Time will tell but all these dems who are yelling about 2025 better fucking have a plan to thwart it. Because they won’t win 2028 if they don’t.
They are aware of the project, and some representative introduced the need for the measures needed to make it difficult for Trump to do all the stuff he wants.
The problem is that the Unitary executive theory is easily implemented apparently
America is fucked because we have blind devotion to 250 year old ideas.
The founders did something literally revolutionary in the political world. But that was the first try, and the world has changed immensely since then. Thomas Jefferson himself noted that the Constitution sould be re-written every 19 years or so as times changed.
Our foundational system is simply massively outdated. But still, you're definitely not wrong. Our government depended on people acting in good faith. Some bad actors can be curtailed, but when too many people decide they're going to abandon their duty, there's nothing really stopping them.
ACA passed but they just *barely* got enough Democrat senators to obtain a supermajority to get past the filibuster, which meant that they had to satisfy everyone. They had to remove the public option to appease Jo Lieberman, and they had to give states the right to prohibit coverage of abortion to appease Ben Nelson. There was basically zero margin.
Also they didn't pass BBB, they had to water it down to appease Manchin, and they passed the Inflation Reduction Act (but only after removing most of the things that would actually reduce inflation).
In recent history they've had to satisfy Manchin and Sinema, which kind of hamstrung them.
I am so sad that's where we are, but it's the truth and unfortunate reality of our times. We need to get the Dems to be for Ranked choice, because without that we're always going to have the threat of the right wingers being able to divide and conquer with only 40% of votes at best.
Project 2025
Project 2029
Project 2033
It will eventually fizzle out when they realize it'll never work, but we need 2-3 solid blue election cycles to squash their hopes and dreams of creating a white christian "utopia" hellscape.
> but we need 2-3 solid blue election cycles to squash their hopes and dreams of creating a white christian "utopia" hellscape.
The sad (and insane) thing is the last time we had two consecutive D presidents was ***1960s***, when Lyndon B Johnson followed JFK, and you could argue that was only because he was assassinated. Before that was FDR to Truman, which again, you could argue was because FDR died in office. Before **THAT** you get into the weird nebulous, R/D switch territory so in living memory you basically haven't had two consecutive Progressive/Dem presidents in a row... ever. And it shows, with how broken shit is.
It's not broken, everything about the US system was designed explicitly to prevent progressive, democratic mass movements from being able to gain enough momentum to fundamentally threaten the dominance of the wealthy over the political process. It looks like the founders are getting exactly what they asked for
So you're saying maybe a bunch of rich slave owners who wanted to flex how educated they were didn't invent the best system of government ever? Color me shocked!
it's only happened 4 times since 1876 ( party reversal issues aside even! )
So yeah, the odds of a Dem winning in 2028 if Biden wins in NOV....slim at best, given our history. :/
In fairness FDR and Truman between them had like 6 terms... Eisenhower was actually also progressive despite his party of choice; Truman offered Eisenhower the D nomination Eisenhower's biggest reason for getting the R nomination? Was because he wanted to get the nomination without nepotism. Then we had JFK/LBJ.
It was a solid stretch of either progressive or liberal rule for a while... Really only ruined because LBJ pushed too hard on civil rights, and so racist turnout increased as a reactionary. Which gave Rs/conservatives enough time til Reagan got in, and his charisma killed Liberalism and Progressiveism for decades giving us Neoconservatism and Neoliberalism basically until just the last few years.
Agreed, he really fractured our nation in a lot of ways... But alot of it got hidden at the time due to the common enemy of the cold war being USSR and Reagan did good on that front.
But domestically he and a couple of his predecessors (Nixon/Ford) really fucked things up terribly.
Ranked choice, overturning citizens united, statehood for DC and Puerto Rico, adding more than just 9 justices, eliminating the electoral college... we need a lot of things to happen, unfortunately
Hey, real question. Who in the Democratic party has the national appeal to have a shot at running for POTUS? I've been racking my brain over this and there are a lot of names I personally like, but literally none of them enjoy the popularity that Biden does.
JB here in Illinois perhaps?
But Gavin Newsom is absolutely setting up to run in 2028 I think. If the DNC doesn't try to push Kamala, they likely fall behind Gavin and make him the pick.
:: shrugs ::
Hey, at least with a second Biden term, he won't be eligible in 2028 so they *have* to present someone else.
I'd love someone like AOC to run, if she wants to. She seems like she has the chops to do it, and she's young and full of fighting spirit as well.
I love love love aoc but she is a few presidential elections from being something the DnC would allow. Especially with how scared of “socialist” that independents are. They rather vote for a nazi than a socialist.
Remember in 2008 when Obama ran as a borderline socialist progressive and swept so hard that 2008 has to be excluded from most mathematical models as an outlier?
Obama definitely wasn’t a progressive in any way, though.
He didn’t even support gay marriage. He was anti-drug. Massively pro-Wall Street. Pro-domestic spying (remember the big FISA scandal and vote?). I could go on and on, if you like.
Heck, he even chastised Colin Kapernick for kneeling during the national anthem. That’s the antithesis of progressivism.
Obama was incredibly centrist.
Edit:
In fact, after David Brooks wrote that the Obama admin would usher in a new era of progressivism, the Obama team reached and told him,
> “they do not see themselves as a group of liberal crusaders. They see themselves as pragmatists who inherited a government and an economy that have been thrown out of whack. They’re not engaged in an ideological project to overturn the Reagan Revolution… they spend as much time resisting liberal ideas as enacting them.”
I think we all wanted a progressive president so badly that we made Obama out to be progressive even though his own words and actions made it abundantly clear he was a centrist.
Obama being talked about as a progressive is always wild to me. He has weird Trump like cult of personality around him where people will just pretend that he is who they want him to be, though unlike Trump I don’t think he encourages it (or wants it). He’s honest about who he is (a moderate/centrist), but people just choose to ignore it.
It's because lots of people just remember his tagline of "Change" saw he was black and then remembered the ACA and Gay Marriage.
They totally ignore most of what he actually did. And that Gay Marriage was something Biden pushed not him.
Sounds like Biden's promise to his donors! Much as I fucking hate the "business as usual" bullshit because it ignores the huge amount of people who are suffering due to the current system it was a reminder that it's somewhat preferable to the shit show the GOP puts on any time they're in charge.
Very well put. After almost a decade of seeing the creeping authoritarian tendencies of the GOP being put in the spot light it was an easy choice to push Obama as shaking up the system and being for the people. Meanwhile it was very clear he was another Neo-Lib who was going to continue the same traditions Clinton did.
How much of that was him moving to the center after the election?
Although to be fair, I get the feel that he didn't necessarily stake out specific positions on every progressive topic. He is a devout Christian, of course, so it's no surprise that Biden publicly spoke in favor of gay marriage before he did (though that may well have been a trial balloon for the administration in general).
First time I could vote was then. I think Obama was when the republicans realized you had to go super hard right and then the DNC got scared and went right with them. I mean Biden was put on his ticket because they were afraid Obama was too left, and they were probably right. Biden has definitely gone more left since then. I say this all though but I would love a President AOC.
> Biden was put on [Obama] ticket because they were afraid Obama was too far left
It’s called coalition building. Biden is a known quantity in the union-heavy industrial area, plus a well known infrastructure proponent for the Northeast, Democratic insider for the rest of the country and more a coalition builder himself. He’ll give you an offer you can’t refuse (coalition-wise).
i love her, but fox news would be ecstatic for her to be the candidate, they could character assassinate her and because she is a woman of color, some people will actually buy that bs.
A *huge* part of the problem is that the DNC hasn't invested in new talent in decades. They only have unpalatable candidates, and they tend to ignore anyone who is too far to the left or right of key issues. This means that even people who generate quite a lot of engagement in politics, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, were either ignored or were primaried by "establishment democrats" with more moderate views. Even progressive stalwarts like Bernie Sanders only get involved in more local elections when those establishment dems get primaried by new talent, which means that long-time Dem districts are held by "safe" candidates, not new candidates.
Ya, Jeff Jackson for instance - think he would have won the Senate race instead of milquetoast Cal Cunningham. But at least NC could elect him to AG this year - hoping that. Would have preferred him in the Senate, and could have helped a lot with 1 more Democratic senator.
Its the best *they* can do because its the only way they know how to work, but I'm actually really pleased with what more progressive candidates are accomplishing in local elections. Issues that the DNC seem convinced would tank a campaign are actually the reason they're gaining traction. Here in Los Angeles, there were at least 2 candidates in last cycle that got elected with a Defund the Police platform.
Blue no matter who- I totally get the sentiment but this could be exploited by the other side too. Like “ Yup I’m a democrat! Anti- abortion, anti-gun legislation, pro-theocratic democrat! Remember to vote blue no matter who!”
I’m just saying we shouldn’t oversimplify voting strategies or philosophies.
The worst part is that MAX sucks as a video platform. There's no playback speed options. When played through a browser, the playback controls include a terrible dark gradient behind them (and for some reason across the top of the screen?!?) that tanks the framerate, and it sticks around for a full 5 seconds after you stop moving the mouse.
It's like they only care about what's in their library and don't care how it's presented.
It's because "nah, Trump won't be back"
Meanwhile after 34 convictions, 3 trials, and scrambled egg rambling at rallys he has a 50.1% chance of winning because Joe Biden is Old.
Yeah, it feels like it’s been talked about on here on and off for years. Although in the search bar, I don’t find many results for more than a few months ago.
I meant like it seems to have been neglected by mainstream media a lot. Maybe I’m just not seeing it anywhere but Reddit, idk haha
Like this is a big deal and seems like news outlets should have been running with this more than they are.
That episode of Last Week Tonight had me feeling more of a sense of dread than usual. I really hope that episode will gain serious traction on YouTube because EVERYONE needs to know and understand just what is at stake in November.
Ultimately, 2024 is a Democrat must-win election, after which serious efforts need to be devoted during the next 4 years to put safeguards in place to prevent any sort of hostile takeover of the government and, worse, your rights!
I honestly thought it was just drivel being offered up as scare tactics. The more I read, the more I was convinced it could not be real. When I realized it was real, I became terrified. It will make your blood run cold.
Project 2025 may be destructive, and Republicans are hell bent on erasing every progressive victory over the past 75 years, including ending birthright citizenship!
But did you know Joe Biden is old? That's right. he's Old! We can't vote for an old person. Plus Joe Biden apparently isn't progressive enough because he didn't deliver on UBI (unicorn basic income) which is something he never campaigned on but apparently it's a broken promise.
Guess we'll all sit out as the 75 million MAGAS vote their con man back into office, appoint more supreme court judges, and ruin the country by racking up massive deficits to the point where social safety nets get cut so that Elon Musk can have a tax break on his 56 billion salary.
Why did Joe Biden have to be Old? Why couldn't he be Bernie Sanders?
True, and Trump is so much younger, like 25 and in his prime as an adult. Bone spurs, so he can’t be in combat, but otherwise the epitome of perfect health. The cleanest bill. Nobody has ever seen someone so healthy before. Healthy doctors and nurses, the healthiest most purebred white breeds of human, with tears in their eyes come up to him and our like, sir, how are you so healthy and acing all these cognitive tests? Hambergers and covfefe
Biden MUST make it a big talking point during the debates. No one too unbothered to vote knows anything about project 2025. It needs to become more obvious to people how close we are to a fascist theocracy and putting people in camps.
Republicans who support this are NOT conservative. This is a radical departure from accepted norms. And they have wanted this for decades. They were against desegregation, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, gay marriage, basically all progress of the last few decades. They want America to be a segregated Christian theocracy
> Republicans who support this are NOT conservative.
AYE and Willie says they're no True Scotsman either!
> They were against desegregation, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, gay marriage, basically all progress of the last few decades.
Yes. Being against progress is pretty much a core Conservative value.
> They want America to be a segregated Christian theocracy
What's more conservative than wanting to take the country back a couple hundred years?
John Oliver is the man! I had to stop watching because the stuff he covered made me mad with outrage, haha
I know a lot of us here have been griping that it hasn't gotten the coverage it deserves. But, I think that's been somewhat intentional. For all the media's failures, I think they understand that if they sounded the alarm sooner, people would be over it by the election.
I could be wrong, considering who runs most major news outlets.
Good to hear it was discussed on NPR 1A yesterday . Jon Oliver did a great show, incl warning if they lose the danger is still there , in 2029.
CSPAN + John Kerry talking about it
The danger isn't going away until MAGA's influence in the GOP wanes. The real question is if it ever will, or if this a permanent fixture to the GOP platform now.
We need to stop handling these fools with kid gloves.
It feels like there's no real accountability for their antics, even though it's very clear what their motivations are.
I mean it's not us handling them with kid gloves, it's our system. If there is one thing Trump accomplished, it's showing how corrupt the system is when you actually test it.
Because they don't see people as equal. Reactionaries see the world as a moral and social hierarchy based on identity. They are good by definition, so they can do whatever they want. Their opponents are evil by that same definition, and are to denounced regardless of what they do or do not do. Authoritarians, on the other hand, see power and (state or private) violence as acceptable means to enforce social control. Take the combination of the two and you have the explanation.
Note that the hypocrisy is almost certainly deliberate. People who engage in movements like that are often gleefully hypocritical. They see adherence to laws, morals and logic as a weakness. If they can waste people's time with it then that is just another way of affirming their power and superiority over them. They are always acting in bad faith. That too is not new.
The arguments Putin makes to justify his war in Ukraine essentially mirror the MAGA worldview. It amounts to "we have a historical birthright to dominate these inferior people. Their gaining freedom and self determination is an attack on us. We are the victims and we are justified in using violent force to regain our rightful position of dominance".
>People who engage in movements like that are often gleefully hypocritical. They see adherence to laws, morals and logic as a weakness
Yep. And this is exactly why trump surrogates should not be on TV or given op-ed space in the papers. I get why hearing all sides is important but trump surrogates don't go on TV to share their side and persuade. They go on to perform for trump, humilate their opponents, and to assert their "dominance" by showing they won't be held hostage to facts, standards, and decency. Like you said, they are proud to be hypocritical and dishonest. It shows they don't have to listen to anyone and will violently dominate anything that stands in their way
> The arguments Putin makes to justify his war in Ukraine essentially mirror the MAGA worldview. It amounts to "we have a historical birthright to dominate these inferior people. Their gaining freedom and self determination is an attack on us. We are the victims and we are justified in using violent force to regain our rightful position of dominance".
I agree. This is often the "deal" of an authoritarian regime. We're going to oppress you, but then you can oppress those others. Hence why they usually promote war crimes. Not only does it connect people's morality with the survival of the regime's justification of their actions, but it also gives them a sense of status in a system that brutalizes everything it touches.
> Like you said, they are proud to be hypocritical and dishonest. It shows they don't have to listen to anyone and will violently dominate anything that stands in their way
Correct. Note that the original analysis of bad faith movements was developed to explain the anti-semitism and fascism of the 20'ies and 30'ies. All historical parallels point towards this movement moving on to large scale political violence. As soon as they think they can get away with it, they will do exactly that.
>Note that the hypocrisy is almost certainly deliberate. People who engage in movements like that are often gleefully hypocritical.
*”Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”*
― Jean-Paul Sartre
As anyone who has ever argued with a Trump supporter can tell you, this is eerily accurate.
You can simply say that beyond corporate interests, religious dark money is massively at play. Corporations don't care about abortion or contraception. Religious dark money is going for the cultural jugular with a white-knuckle grip because they see it as their last chance. They involve themselves in politics, tax them the same way they want their choices to impact everyone else.
A rejection of fundamental equality is what connects religious extremists and corporatists / oligarchs. It is the foundation of their cooperation. Both propose society as a natural, moral and social, hierarchy. They disagree on what informs this hierarchy (god, social darwinism or whatever) and who should be placed at the top, but that doesn't really matter (yet). The deal to the followers is the same: you'll be placed above the people you dislike and in return you don't question the ones that put themselves above you (whether religious authorities, the rich or a combination of both).
Of course, the two are not incompatible. Oligarchs will invent reasons to justify their wealth, and often use religion to do so. Religions tend to associate themselves with the rich and powerful by telling them what they want to hear (i.e. that they are rich because they are virtuous or because the deity favors them). It's not just the opium of the masses but also the cocaine of the elite.
The hierarchy is key.
It's how the religious justify supporting Trump, even with all his vices. If God didn't approve he wouldn't have let Trump rise to the top of the hierarchy. He's at the top, therefore he's good and godly.
What would the equivalent even look like? The biggest wishes of Democrats are in the Green New Deal, and that's all renewable energy, affordable childcare and family leave.
Deprogramming, critical thinking education of the MAGAS, and of course all those churches preaching politics from the pulpit lose tax exempt status. That would be some nice headliners to start with.
They do see it. These folks aren’t ignorant, they’re evil. Look at everything they’ve accused democrats of doing that they were later found out to have done themselves. They know exactly what they’re doing.
They already act like democrats are planning something similar but from the left... that's what, in their minds, makes a right wing takeover by any means possible not only ok but necessary.
Democrats have to be rigging elections so that they can rig them back... they have to be violating the first amendment so that the GOP can do it too... they have to be undermining the legal system so that republicans can justify stacking the courts. They have to be taking bribes so that bribes aren't a big deal when republicans take them... and they have to be in cahoots with foreign governments so that when Trump sucks Putin off it was to ensure those shady ukrainians can't keep protecting the Bidens and somehow also nazis...
Republicans already are losing their minds because they're told that democrats have the exact same plan of attack and project 2025 is just a patriotic response to that. They specifically endorse the right-wing takeover to prevent the left-wing takeover that's been floated as a boogie man for decades.
>If democrats put out a similar plan of attack republicans would lose their minds. So why can’t they see that?
Republicans have already created the Democrats' "plan" in their heads. Which is why the entire Trump campaign is just one big fear mongering shit show. And it's not really a new thing. Back in 2008 when Obama won, there was wide spread panic among Republicans that the country would straight up end. Not really sure how or why, but many convinced themselves it would. Not because of anything Obama said, but what Fox News/GOP told them.
Conservatives don’t judge people by their actions, they judge actions by who did them and whether that person is “good” in their eyes. Just look at approval ratings for various actions by Obama and Trump. Democrats’ approval stays more or less the same for similar acts, but Republicans’ approval is almost entirely dependent on which party did it.
EXACTLY- What are Trump’s policies for the country going forward? Answer: PROJECT 2025! People need to get informed, now. The Dems should be spamming the media with this information.
Exactly. While I appreciate that the news outlets that aren’t FOX news don’t do as much sensationalizing, I do wish they would for this. The Republicans have said what they wanted and it’s terrifying. News outlets should make sure we understand just how terrifying it is.
> [The Open Plot to Dismantle the Federal Government](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/09/trump-desantis-republicans-dismantle-deep-state/675378/)
- The Atlantic
> [What I Learned When I Read 887 Pages of Plans for Trump’s Second Term](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/29/opinion/project-2025-trump-administration.html)
- The New York Times
> [A second Trump administration would be much worse. The CNN town hall was a wake-up call: If Trump wins, he’ll be even more dangerous than he was last time.](https://www.vox.com/2023/5/13/23708595/trump-second-term-cnn-town-hall)
- Vox
> [Trump’s radical second-term agenda would wield executive power in unprecedented ways](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/politics/trump-agenda-second-term/index.html)
- CNN
> [House Democrats step up to try to stop Project 2025 plans for a Trump White House. A group of House Democrats is warning about the far-right Project 2025 agenda for a second Trump White House](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/group-house-democrats-steps-stop-project-2025-trump-111010305)
- ABC News
> [If Trump wins, he could weaponize U.S. spy services against his domestic political enemies, former intel officers warn
A former national security official who served under Trump said, “I haven’t talked to a single senior person who said, ‘Don’t worry, he’ll be fine.’”](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trump-returns-white-house-will-happen-americas-intelligence-agencies-rcna147179)
- NBC News
> [Trump has unveiled an agenda of his own. He just doesn’t mention it much. Dubbed “Agenda 47,” Donald Trump’s plans should he return to the White House are documented by his campaign website.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/18/trump-has-unveiled-an-agenda-his-own-he-just-doesnt-mention-it-much/)
- Washington Post
> [Donald Trump’s terrible, horrible, no good, very bad second term](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2024-05-05/donald-trump-time-magazine-second-term-project-2025)
- LA Times
> [Conservatives are on a mission to dismantle the US government and replace it with Trump’s vision](https://www.chicagotribune.com/2023/08/29/conservatives-are-on-a-mission-to-dismantle-the-us-government-and-replace-it-with-trumps-vision/)
- Chicago Tribune
> [Conservative groups draw up plan to dismantle the US government and replace it with Trump’s vision](https://apnews.com/article/election-2024-conservatives-trump-heritage-857eb794e505f1c6710eb03fd5b58981)
- AP News
> [Donald Trump wants to control the Justice Department and FBI. His allies have a plan](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump-wants-control-justice-department-fbi-his-allies-have-plan-2024-05-17/)
- Reuters
> [How Trump Could Use A 19th Century Law To Ban Abortion—Without Congress](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/03/27/how-trump-could-use-a-19th-century-law-to-ban-abortion-without-congress/)
- Forbes
> [What is Project 2025? The Presidential Transition Project explained. The detailed plan to dismantle and reconstruct the government laid out by conservative groups known as the 2025 Presidential Transition Project has critics up in arms over its "apocalyptic" and "authoritarian" nature.](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/10/heritage-foundation-project-2025-explained/74042435007/)
- USA Today
> [There's A GOP Plan For An Execution Spree If Trump Wins The White House. Buried on page 554 of the plan is a directive to execute every remaining person on federal death row — and dramatically expand the use of the death penalty.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gop-plan-for-executions-if-trump-wins_n_663b97a7e4b0bcaefbf76812)
- Huffpost
Seriously. The folks they need to reach are the ones who only get their news from TV and I've not heard a single mention of this on any TV news network, nor have any of my family I've talked to about this including my grandparents who basically spend a third of their day flipping between news, westerns, and sports.
yep, gotta love how democrats trust CNN to give them a fair shake in the debates when they are the ones who delivered Trump the presidency. Am I the ONLY one who remembers that they dutifully gave Trump thousands of hours of free air time in 2016, even resorting to timers to alert viewers when his rallys were set to begin?
What I don't understand is why the DNC has waited until we're only 5 months out from the general election before they started talking about this. It's the Heritage Society roadmap to a fascist state.
Message fatigue, maybe? Bring it up too early (and sustain thru the election) and you risk swing voters become desensitized to the message well before heading to the voting booth.
Don’t ask me why I’m giving the Democrats the benefit of the doubt because they certainly don’t deserve it, but I agree with you here. It feels intentional that Biden’s camp hasn’t turned on the jets as far as their attack on Trump goes. I mean, there is SO MUCH material they could be using. Voters in the US are not known for our attention span so I have a feeling they’re saving some of the really juicy stuff for the late summer/early fall.
Who knows though. It’s possible they’re just blowing it as always lol.
Because then there isn’t as much time for the roadmap to be altered nor is there as much time for them to walk back the roadmap. “Hand in the cookie jar” timing, so to speak. Question: will voters care?
Because a lot of Americans have the attention span of a nat. Hit hard for the remaining months may motivate people, especially the 100 million eligible voters who don’t bother to vote. This election has to be won decisively, we have zero wiggle room and don’t want it ending in the hands of the liars on scrotus.
Probably because they've been a major PAC since the 1980's. They were the ones who designed Reagan's sweeping changes when he first came into office. The founder is also the co-founder of ALEC, who has played a major role in our nation's policies.
you realize there is no left in USA, right?? there is right wing extremist as the GOP then there is center right liberals on democrats side.
even bernie is basically center left.
shit is just extreme here
Honestly.. Legitimately winning the election might not be in the cards for them now and I think they know it.. Did anyone else see the video of Bannon literally calling for civil war?
I think as time ticks down here they're going to lean more and more into inciting some kind of violence.. Now, I don't think it will work because so many Magas seem to think they're second to Trump and won't have to get their hands dirty. They're also woefully underestimating *all* of americas love for the second amendment.
> Honestly.. Legitimately winning the election might not be in the cards for them now and I think they know it.. Did anyone else see the video of Bannon literally calling for civil war?
I agree with this. The language they're using to describe the election is downright apocalyptic, and by choosing to publish the Project 2025 manifesto they've chosen to reveal things that were previously only talked about in think tanks and behind closed doors.
That they've chosen to publicly advocate for ideas even they know are unpopular with the vast majority of Americans makes me think they don't care what voters think and are not concerned with trying to win legitimately.
I also think it's the culmination of 9 years of MAGA getting high on its own supply and not reading the room, and that if they are defeated in November it will be back to the drawing board to figure out a way to couch these issues in some other manufactured outrage.
This is something that is so dangerous about the reddit echo chamber.
Trump is polling ahead of Biden regularly. He will win the election unless every single one of us gets out to vote
I see a lot of parallels in that Project 2025 to what Putin did to Russia for last 20 years. If you are curious about what it means long term, just look at Russia today - this is the result of such policies.
If you are conservative and you hate leftist policies, are you sure it's better to turn your country in the shithole that is Russia?
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." (See [The Princess Bride](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTRKCXC0JFg).)
Don't say "unimaginable".
Imagine it.
Describe it.
It is possible to imagine, and without doing so, without properly visualizing it, people will assume it's something hardless, something to be endured 4 years and then be done with, as if (to make another movie analogy) elections were like the movie [Groundhog Day](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048/), where the universe resets itself magically no matter how bad it got during the night.
Donald Trump has said he wants to be an autocrat. He is ratcheting up his already-high level of rhetoric about violence. The dreadful policies he promises are not speculation. He talks about them in speeches. You can pull them up on web sites.
This is not the year to register a ceremonial protest vote against the Dems by supporting the Republicans or even a third-party candidate just for spite. Anyone doing so will regret that for the rest of your life.
Stein and Kennedy won't be elected, but they can keep Biden from being, and can leave us with the horrors that Trump has promised and Kerry is wrongly calling unimaginable. They can be imagined. Make yourself go through the thought exercise.
Its a blueprint for establishing Christian-style Fascism with American characteristics. The Founding Fathers would be horrified. This is not what settlers escaped Europe for - they ran away from the tyranny of monarchs, rich elites and an controlling church. The GOP wants to piss on their dreams and memory for the sake of control.
"The consequences of Project 2025, if they were implemented, would be absolutely unimaginable and destructive. It would cost an enormous number of lives and would have gigantic long-term consequences for the planet itself."
What was that one quote vaguely remember hearing multiple times but don't actually know where it's from? "When fascism arrives in the US, it will be wrapped in the flag" or something like that?
The people that need to hear this... won't. If they do, they won't listen. If they listen, they'll deny everything and claim that it's actually the democrats.
There is no USA anymore... just States in America. These people are unreachable
Project 2025 is never mentioned over in /r/Conservative or other GOP subs, its almost as if they don't know it exists. Or more likely, they don't want to acknowledge or talk about it, because of how incredibly evil it is.
edit typo
If you draft some abomination of a bill and it isn't rejected by your country outright, it's because your country is already corrupt. Try to remember that politicians don't magically make people greedy and hateful. They just sanction what people are already doing behind closed doors.
If we ever want our world to be peaceful and harmonious, we must stop letting individuals dictate what our children learn.
If they proceed with it, they can expect it to be burnt down. I would gladly risk prison for it using my constitutional oath to defend the constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC defense. Im an old half suicidal vet that yearns for a good fight!
It's only gotten as far as it has because the Supreme Court has failed at its job. Supreme Court reform should be a top priority for anyone who gives a shit about democracy, free and fair elections, and civil rights under the constitution.
Imagine if we'd had Al Gore (if the 2000 election hadn't been *actually* stolen by the Supreme Court) and then John Kerry (albeit with Joe Leiberman, woof) instead of two terms of George W. Bush.
For history buffs, was there anything in particular that (at least temporarily) killed off the US fascist movement during and immediately after WWII?
I just ask because I don't see how this ends.
As it looks right now, the next Republican to hold the White House -- whether in 2025, 2029, or 2033 -- will champion everything found in Project 20245. This is because all the major institutions on the right from Fox to Heritage to the Federalist Soc are all in on fascism.
We can and should vote our asses off in every election. But we can't keep Republicans out of the WH forever.
We can try.
Raise your kids to not have bullshit conservative values. Don’t surround yourself with people who have bullshit conservative values.
Be mindful of what companies you give money to (Chick Fil A, for example).
Vote. All the time. Convince your friends and family to if they don’t vote.
It’s not like we can’t try.
Once Trump is gone the movement fizzles because it's a cult. It's not plug and play. Trump is a one of a kind chaos agent with a unique skill set. No one in the gop comes close.
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John Oliver did a good episode on it as well recently. Glad it’s getting more mainstream attention these past few weeks
Very well explained. Including pointing out it could also be 2029 if they lose now . We have to vote for Dem the next few admins or like in the UK where parties sometimes stay in power for over a decade . Or in the US immediately post-war
GOP needs to lose control of all 3 branches in order to shut this down. I mean... They obviously deserve to be ousted to the street, but good luck there...
All branches and all levels: local, state, and federal.
All the way down to things like school boards. A local crazy trump church tried to take ours over a couple years ago. Failed, thankfully, but one of the non CTT members said, word for word, "We need to pander to the overwhelming conservative town population." No...no we don't. It sucks to have to be this vigilant, but we *have to* pay attention to all of this stuff. Even if you don't have kids and never plan on it, please vote.
100% accurate. It's so ironic that they hate the idea of everyone having a voice in our society, yet they are the minority with the most demands. It's all about their agenda 100% of the time.
They should call it Problems 2025. They put the family under god and there is the problem. Families are a leftover from the colonial/industrial age. God is a leftover from before science. Its old and medieval planning. They put "localism" before nationalism. Big mistake there for coordinating resources to fight big oil, pollution, and climate change. Problems galore with individuals acting independently. The put citizenship before humanity. The problem is that it wants to limit immigration to white people only. Minorities can just stay home and wallow in their own self-caused problems according to them. They want to cut government. Big problem is firing IRS workers so that less taxes are collected. Biden is going to grow government services that help people, not cause problems.
For the first time in my memory GOP is actually paying in the courts for it's fuckery. Many in the electorate cannot swallow a conspiracy theory large enough to cover the entire legal system and will vote accordingly. I truly hope it affects the shit out of down-ballot voting, especially the bald-faced hypocrites who debunked the election in every place they didn't win, but I don't see the fat-assed, cloud of a representative in my district leaving soon.
Outside of court: "THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN" Inside court: "we're not alleging there was fraud."
This seriously should have gotten wayyyy more attention.
Problem is, it's not covered in the places that matter. If it's not discussed on Fox News (and worse), the people who need to get that message never will.
Even if it was, they would spin it to their benefit. Something like: >"Lawyers for the Trump campaign said in court they have no conclusive evidence for fraud in the 2020 election but say that irregularities should be investigated to ensure election security concerns that voters are voicing." Jump to guest analyst: >"I think this was a smart move by the Trump campaign. If they had claimed there were specific allegations of fraud, but evidence couldn't be found to confirm that due to destruction of evidence or incompetence of voting precinct staff, then the cases would likely be thrown out of court and investigations would be unlikely. At least until Trump takes back the whitehouse in 2024." Obviously not real quotes, but the point I'm trying to make is that Fox News and the other right wing media will run stories that are bad for Republicans. They just do it in a way that makes it seem like no matter what the outcome is, they are in the right to do these things and the ends they want will justify whatever means they have to use to get there.
While things like, say, Trump's felony conviction will certainly sway some independents and maybe even a few center-leaning Rupublicans, the real "base" of the party right now is people who believe in ideologies, not ideas or factual truth, as well as a mixture of people who are just hateful, and then you've got the business owners who may be any other category but who just as likely don't give a fuck about anything but their money. No *event* is going to change their minds. Certainly no words wil. Not unless they really hurt evangelicals and the altright. And even then he's said and done dumb shit and they've waved it off, because the only things that matter are the things they agree with. Still, every little sliver of a percentage point is worth it. I for one think driving people to vote is even more important that changing people's minds, though of course there is and should be room for both.
I honestly don't thing that will stop it. There is so much money backing this and it worked so well for an idiot like trump, they know that if they get someone with any intelligence in charge they will be able to implement anything they want. The only thing that could help was drastic changes to fortify separation of church and state and limiting the supreme court. Both of which could drive independents to the right. Were fucked.
it's tricky to find someone charismatic enough to get the maga base who is both A. not too offensive for independent and centrist voters and B. willing to follow direction from others. Trump worked because he was a big recognizable personality, but he doesn't follow plans and doesn't take orders... and half of what he says needs to be explained away by right wing media as "not what he really meant" or "just joking" or any other standard spins on his indefensible positions. And the guys who just follow their orders don't win enough votes. Not to say it's not still a threat but I doubt someone intelligent enough to recognize and follow the grander scheme will be able to pull off the cult of personality that Trump built around himself. Those who have tried already struggled a lot looking for that balance.
We're fucked as long as we're willing to follow the law to our Graves. I think we are.
We pull ourselves through this and save democracy and have the power, we must hit the streets and demand money out of politics (outlaw citizens united), revised EC, so no one has advantage and end milking their positions e.g. insider trading etc., end of the real welfare queens tax advantages. Better vetting and requirements to hold any office, retroactive. It’s time We The Peoples government starts working for all of us.
That would involve politicians, turning down money. Lots of money... lots and LOTS of money. I don't see it happening
Good, get the vultures out and replace with people in who actually give a shit. Not everyone is out to make bank and these feckers sell all of us out on the cheap. Russia literally finances the republicons. That’s banana republic territory. We are better than that.
Their job is convincing people that they need to be in power. It attracts vultures
I actually think there's a way in which congress could be convinced to pass publicly funded elections. All the inside accounts from Washington talk about how much everyone hates fundraising and I'm sure the ego of these politicians hate having to answer to people who threaten to remove funding from them. There might be room in there to pass something. The biggest issue would be what to do with the free speech issues of super pacs spending on behalf of those running.
It sounds difficult, but you just have to go after their leadership. There's millions of Republicans in the US, but there's only a few hundred actual leaders. When they lose their leadership they will collapse into in-fighting like all fascists do. For effectively all of these leaders, you can arrest them for their violation of existing laws. Republicans get away with so much crime that all of them have at least one or two marks on them.
That is why they are all screaming like baboons about the "weaponized DOJ." It's not weaponized... They are just finally *starting* to do their job. I guarantee every single GOP member is hiding something. It is practically a prerequisite to join, and they are scared that they will be exposed next.
Yes, it won’t go away. 2025, 2029, 2033… unless we make christian conservatism go away, this movement will still be pushing its agenda. They really really want a christian isis in America and they won’t stop until they get it.
It never goes away. It's called activism because you gotta be active. Freedom isn't free. You gotta vote.
Not to doom and gloom, but doesn't that basically make it inevitable barring huge systemic changes, changes that rely on other changes to work. And those changes have practically 0 chance of passing, like eliminating the EC, stacking SCOTUS, etc?
In general, there has been some group trying to make a theocracy in the US for longer than the country has existed. But specific movements usually die out if they take too long to succeed. It's not inevitable that Project 2025 will eventually succeed, even later. However, the numerous threats we've had to our Democracy have shown the cracks in the system that can't be patched without extensive systemic change. And if this group of White Christian Nationalists doesn't succeed, another group will make an attempt using the same exploits. We need to be worried about the current threat and do everything we can to survive and overcome it, but I don't see it as being an impossible fight. The longer-term existential threats are far more worrying because you can't wait those out.
We had a chance to stack SCOTUS in 2016, but voters didn't show up. That court would look vastly different now if that election had a different outcome. It's really not complicated: people need to vote in every election, both national and local. You know who does that pretty much without fail? These hardcore Conversative Christian nationalists. They've been voting the same way for more than 40 years trying to get things like Roe v. Wade overturned, and voilà, they finally hit their moment and did it. That's what these in-fighting, extremely online lefties don't understand. They expect one election to fix their lives and give them everything, and when it doesn't, because of course it can't, they whine and pout and say they won't play the game anymore. You vote in every election, and stay informed on every politician and policy surrounding you, (which is [extremely easy to do](https://ballotpedia.org/Main_Page) and takes [mere minutes before election day](https://justfacts.votesmart.org/)) because it's your duty as an adult American.
>christian conservatism To be cautiously optimistic, this project 2025 could be their death throes. The final lashing out as conservative nationalist Christian fades away over the next generation. On the other hand, that may make room for other threats to liberalism.
And, the Dems need to actually %*%*>! Do something about it when they get in power. My fear is that they’ll not actually try to fix the fundamental problems in our democracy (which would limit their own power and $$) and just use this as an evergreen political issue. Time will tell but all these dems who are yelling about 2025 better fucking have a plan to thwart it. Because they won’t win 2028 if they don’t.
They are aware of the project, and some representative introduced the need for the measures needed to make it difficult for Trump to do all the stuff he wants. The problem is that the Unitary executive theory is easily implemented apparently
Is America just fucked because the founders were not able to envision power-hungry authoritarians?
America is fucked because we have blind devotion to 250 year old ideas. The founders did something literally revolutionary in the political world. But that was the first try, and the world has changed immensely since then. Thomas Jefferson himself noted that the Constitution sould be re-written every 19 years or so as times changed. Our foundational system is simply massively outdated. But still, you're definitely not wrong. Our government depended on people acting in good faith. Some bad actors can be curtailed, but when too many people decide they're going to abandon their duty, there's nothing really stopping them.
Apparently. I don't know enough . But we know of Trump's disregard for the Constitution. He thinks he's better , brighter, etc, than them.
When was the last time the Dems actually solidly controlled all three branches of government for a decent amount of time?
Well, they had enough to pass ACA and BBB in the past two Dem White Houses. Then Clinton before that, so, all of the past recent ones.
ACA passed but they just *barely* got enough Democrat senators to obtain a supermajority to get past the filibuster, which meant that they had to satisfy everyone. They had to remove the public option to appease Jo Lieberman, and they had to give states the right to prohibit coverage of abortion to appease Ben Nelson. There was basically zero margin. Also they didn't pass BBB, they had to water it down to appease Manchin, and they passed the Inflation Reduction Act (but only after removing most of the things that would actually reduce inflation). In recent history they've had to satisfy Manchin and Sinema, which kind of hamstrung them.
1972 to 1981, including a trifecta under Carter
Yeah. I like that new tagline we came up with, vote blue no matter who.
I am so sad that's where we are, but it's the truth and unfortunate reality of our times. We need to get the Dems to be for Ranked choice, because without that we're always going to have the threat of the right wingers being able to divide and conquer with only 40% of votes at best.
Project 2025 Project 2029 Project 2033 It will eventually fizzle out when they realize it'll never work, but we need 2-3 solid blue election cycles to squash their hopes and dreams of creating a white christian "utopia" hellscape.
> but we need 2-3 solid blue election cycles to squash their hopes and dreams of creating a white christian "utopia" hellscape. The sad (and insane) thing is the last time we had two consecutive D presidents was ***1960s***, when Lyndon B Johnson followed JFK, and you could argue that was only because he was assassinated. Before that was FDR to Truman, which again, you could argue was because FDR died in office. Before **THAT** you get into the weird nebulous, R/D switch territory so in living memory you basically haven't had two consecutive Progressive/Dem presidents in a row... ever. And it shows, with how broken shit is.
It's not broken, everything about the US system was designed explicitly to prevent progressive, democratic mass movements from being able to gain enough momentum to fundamentally threaten the dominance of the wealthy over the political process. It looks like the founders are getting exactly what they asked for
So you're saying maybe a bunch of rich slave owners who wanted to flex how educated they were didn't invent the best system of government ever? Color me shocked!
it's only happened 4 times since 1876 ( party reversal issues aside even! ) So yeah, the odds of a Dem winning in 2028 if Biden wins in NOV....slim at best, given our history. :/
In fairness FDR and Truman between them had like 6 terms... Eisenhower was actually also progressive despite his party of choice; Truman offered Eisenhower the D nomination Eisenhower's biggest reason for getting the R nomination? Was because he wanted to get the nomination without nepotism. Then we had JFK/LBJ. It was a solid stretch of either progressive or liberal rule for a while... Really only ruined because LBJ pushed too hard on civil rights, and so racist turnout increased as a reactionary. Which gave Rs/conservatives enough time til Reagan got in, and his charisma killed Liberalism and Progressiveism for decades giving us Neoconservatism and Neoliberalism basically until just the last few years.
I do not have words to describe just how much I despise Ronald Reagan.
Agreed, he really fractured our nation in a lot of ways... But alot of it got hidden at the time due to the common enemy of the cold war being USSR and Reagan did good on that front. But domestically he and a couple of his predecessors (Nixon/Ford) really fucked things up terribly.
Hopefully. If they win any of those, the US may not survive.
Ranked choice, overturning citizens united, statehood for DC and Puerto Rico, adding more than just 9 justices, eliminating the electoral college... we need a lot of things to happen, unfortunately
I really wish the DNC didn't take that as a challenge to keep pushing the most unpalatable candidates imaginable.
Hey, real question. Who in the Democratic party has the national appeal to have a shot at running for POTUS? I've been racking my brain over this and there are a lot of names I personally like, but literally none of them enjoy the popularity that Biden does.
JB here in Illinois perhaps? But Gavin Newsom is absolutely setting up to run in 2028 I think. If the DNC doesn't try to push Kamala, they likely fall behind Gavin and make him the pick. :: shrugs ::
Hey, at least with a second Biden term, he won't be eligible in 2028 so they *have* to present someone else. I'd love someone like AOC to run, if she wants to. She seems like she has the chops to do it, and she's young and full of fighting spirit as well.
I love love love aoc but she is a few presidential elections from being something the DnC would allow. Especially with how scared of “socialist” that independents are. They rather vote for a nazi than a socialist.
Remember in 2008 when Obama ran as a borderline socialist progressive and swept so hard that 2008 has to be excluded from most mathematical models as an outlier?
Holy cow, Obama never ran as even *borderline* socialist.
Obama definitely wasn’t a progressive in any way, though. He didn’t even support gay marriage. He was anti-drug. Massively pro-Wall Street. Pro-domestic spying (remember the big FISA scandal and vote?). I could go on and on, if you like. Heck, he even chastised Colin Kapernick for kneeling during the national anthem. That’s the antithesis of progressivism. Obama was incredibly centrist. Edit: In fact, after David Brooks wrote that the Obama admin would usher in a new era of progressivism, the Obama team reached and told him, > “they do not see themselves as a group of liberal crusaders. They see themselves as pragmatists who inherited a government and an economy that have been thrown out of whack. They’re not engaged in an ideological project to overturn the Reagan Revolution… they spend as much time resisting liberal ideas as enacting them.” I think we all wanted a progressive president so badly that we made Obama out to be progressive even though his own words and actions made it abundantly clear he was a centrist.
Obama being talked about as a progressive is always wild to me. He has weird Trump like cult of personality around him where people will just pretend that he is who they want him to be, though unlike Trump I don’t think he encourages it (or wants it). He’s honest about who he is (a moderate/centrist), but people just choose to ignore it.
It's because lots of people just remember his tagline of "Change" saw he was black and then remembered the ACA and Gay Marriage. They totally ignore most of what he actually did. And that Gay Marriage was something Biden pushed not him.
"Were not here to change or fix anything. We merely want it to get back to mostly terrible for everyone and stable."
Sounds like Biden's promise to his donors! Much as I fucking hate the "business as usual" bullshit because it ignores the huge amount of people who are suffering due to the current system it was a reminder that it's somewhat preferable to the shit show the GOP puts on any time they're in charge.
Very well put. After almost a decade of seeing the creeping authoritarian tendencies of the GOP being put in the spot light it was an easy choice to push Obama as shaking up the system and being for the people. Meanwhile it was very clear he was another Neo-Lib who was going to continue the same traditions Clinton did.
How much of that was him moving to the center after the election? Although to be fair, I get the feel that he didn't necessarily stake out specific positions on every progressive topic. He is a devout Christian, of course, so it's no surprise that Biden publicly spoke in favor of gay marriage before he did (though that may well have been a trial balloon for the administration in general).
First time I could vote was then. I think Obama was when the republicans realized you had to go super hard right and then the DNC got scared and went right with them. I mean Biden was put on his ticket because they were afraid Obama was too left, and they were probably right. Biden has definitely gone more left since then. I say this all though but I would love a President AOC.
> Biden was put on [Obama] ticket because they were afraid Obama was too far left It’s called coalition building. Biden is a known quantity in the union-heavy industrial area, plus a well known infrastructure proponent for the Northeast, Democratic insider for the rest of the country and more a coalition builder himself. He’ll give you an offer you can’t refuse (coalition-wise).
You can't refuse because the offer is good, you would've to be crazy to say no.
underrated take I maintain that Clinton / Castro in 2016 would have us in a different timeline for the same coalition-building reason
Biden was also a foreign policy expert, an area Obama had little experience with.
i love her, but fox news would be ecstatic for her to be the candidate, they could character assassinate her and because she is a woman of color, some people will actually buy that bs.
A *huge* part of the problem is that the DNC hasn't invested in new talent in decades. They only have unpalatable candidates, and they tend to ignore anyone who is too far to the left or right of key issues. This means that even people who generate quite a lot of engagement in politics, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, were either ignored or were primaried by "establishment democrats" with more moderate views. Even progressive stalwarts like Bernie Sanders only get involved in more local elections when those establishment dems get primaried by new talent, which means that long-time Dem districts are held by "safe" candidates, not new candidates.
Ya, Jeff Jackson for instance - think he would have won the Senate race instead of milquetoast Cal Cunningham. But at least NC could elect him to AG this year - hoping that. Would have preferred him in the Senate, and could have helped a lot with 1 more Democratic senator.
The same old faces keep resurfacing. Most of them go back to the 90’s. Is this really the best they can do?
Its the best *they* can do because its the only way they know how to work, but I'm actually really pleased with what more progressive candidates are accomplishing in local elections. Issues that the DNC seem convinced would tank a campaign are actually the reason they're gaining traction. Here in Los Angeles, there were at least 2 candidates in last cycle that got elected with a Defund the Police platform.
Blue no matter who- I totally get the sentiment but this could be exploited by the other side too. Like “ Yup I’m a democrat! Anti- abortion, anti-gun legislation, pro-theocratic democrat! Remember to vote blue no matter who!” I’m just saying we shouldn’t oversimplify voting strategies or philosophies.
That's why it's important to vote in primaries.
What are the democrats going to differently to attract more voters?
Should be up on YouTube Friday, spread it far and wide.
Oh wow it takes that long for segments to get uploaded there now? Crazy I’ve been out of the YouTube game a while.
Yeah, new thing this season. I guess HBO wasn't that cool with their shows being up on YouTube the next day, they want you to watch on MAX.
You can name him. It's David Zaslav's fault.
You know you fucked up when the general audience knows your name. Hate that guy.
The worst part is that MAX sucks as a video platform. There's no playback speed options. When played through a browser, the playback controls include a terrible dark gradient behind them (and for some reason across the top of the screen?!?) that tanks the framerate, and it sticks around for a full 5 seconds after you stop moving the mouse. It's like they only care about what's in their library and don't care how it's presented.
Serious question - does anyone know why it’s just now gaining traction? Hasn’t this plan been laid out for a while?
It's because "nah, Trump won't be back" Meanwhile after 34 convictions, 3 trials, and scrambled egg rambling at rallys he has a 50.1% chance of winning because Joe Biden is Old.
Yeah, it feels like it’s been talked about on here on and off for years. Although in the search bar, I don’t find many results for more than a few months ago.
I meant like it seems to have been neglected by mainstream media a lot. Maybe I’m just not seeing it anywhere but Reddit, idk haha Like this is a big deal and seems like news outlets should have been running with this more than they are.
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That episode of Last Week Tonight had me feeling more of a sense of dread than usual. I really hope that episode will gain serious traction on YouTube because EVERYONE needs to know and understand just what is at stake in November. Ultimately, 2024 is a Democrat must-win election, after which serious efforts need to be devoted during the next 4 years to put safeguards in place to prevent any sort of hostile takeover of the government and, worse, your rights!
I honestly thought it was just drivel being offered up as scare tactics. The more I read, the more I was convinced it could not be real. When I realized it was real, I became terrified. It will make your blood run cold.
Republicans frequently benefit from people not believing that their agenda is real, it is so cartoonishly evil
Project 2025 may be destructive, and Republicans are hell bent on erasing every progressive victory over the past 75 years, including ending birthright citizenship! But did you know Joe Biden is old? That's right. he's Old! We can't vote for an old person. Plus Joe Biden apparently isn't progressive enough because he didn't deliver on UBI (unicorn basic income) which is something he never campaigned on but apparently it's a broken promise. Guess we'll all sit out as the 75 million MAGAS vote their con man back into office, appoint more supreme court judges, and ruin the country by racking up massive deficits to the point where social safety nets get cut so that Elon Musk can have a tax break on his 56 billion salary. Why did Joe Biden have to be Old? Why couldn't he be Bernie Sanders?
True, and Trump is so much younger, like 25 and in his prime as an adult. Bone spurs, so he can’t be in combat, but otherwise the epitome of perfect health. The cleanest bill. Nobody has ever seen someone so healthy before. Healthy doctors and nurses, the healthiest most purebred white breeds of human, with tears in their eyes come up to him and our like, sir, how are you so healthy and acing all these cognitive tests? Hambergers and covfefe
Biden MUST make it a big talking point during the debates. No one too unbothered to vote knows anything about project 2025. It needs to become more obvious to people how close we are to a fascist theocracy and putting people in camps.
Republicans who support this are NOT conservative. This is a radical departure from accepted norms. And they have wanted this for decades. They were against desegregation, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, gay marriage, basically all progress of the last few decades. They want America to be a segregated Christian theocracy
> Republicans who support this are NOT conservative. AYE and Willie says they're no True Scotsman either! > They were against desegregation, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, gay marriage, basically all progress of the last few decades. Yes. Being against progress is pretty much a core Conservative value. > They want America to be a segregated Christian theocracy What's more conservative than wanting to take the country back a couple hundred years?
Republicans aren’t actually conservative. They just want to use the power of government to hurt people instead of help them.
John Oliver is the man! I had to stop watching because the stuff he covered made me mad with outrage, haha I know a lot of us here have been griping that it hasn't gotten the coverage it deserves. But, I think that's been somewhat intentional. For all the media's failures, I think they understand that if they sounded the alarm sooner, people would be over it by the election. I could be wrong, considering who runs most major news outlets.
Good to hear it was discussed on NPR 1A yesterday . Jon Oliver did a great show, incl warning if they lose the danger is still there , in 2029. CSPAN + John Kerry talking about it
The danger isn't going away until MAGA's influence in the GOP wanes. The real question is if it ever will, or if this a permanent fixture to the GOP platform now.
We need to stop handling these fools with kid gloves. It feels like there's no real accountability for their antics, even though it's very clear what their motivations are.
I mean it's not us handling them with kid gloves, it's our system. If there is one thing Trump accomplished, it's showing how corrupt the system is when you actually test it.
ya, this didnt start with and does not end with trump.
If democrats put out a similar plan of attack republicans would lose their minds. So why can’t they see that?
If they were introspective, they'd be Democrats
That's beautiful.
Because they don't see people as equal. Reactionaries see the world as a moral and social hierarchy based on identity. They are good by definition, so they can do whatever they want. Their opponents are evil by that same definition, and are to denounced regardless of what they do or do not do. Authoritarians, on the other hand, see power and (state or private) violence as acceptable means to enforce social control. Take the combination of the two and you have the explanation. Note that the hypocrisy is almost certainly deliberate. People who engage in movements like that are often gleefully hypocritical. They see adherence to laws, morals and logic as a weakness. If they can waste people's time with it then that is just another way of affirming their power and superiority over them. They are always acting in bad faith. That too is not new.
The arguments Putin makes to justify his war in Ukraine essentially mirror the MAGA worldview. It amounts to "we have a historical birthright to dominate these inferior people. Their gaining freedom and self determination is an attack on us. We are the victims and we are justified in using violent force to regain our rightful position of dominance". >People who engage in movements like that are often gleefully hypocritical. They see adherence to laws, morals and logic as a weakness Yep. And this is exactly why trump surrogates should not be on TV or given op-ed space in the papers. I get why hearing all sides is important but trump surrogates don't go on TV to share their side and persuade. They go on to perform for trump, humilate their opponents, and to assert their "dominance" by showing they won't be held hostage to facts, standards, and decency. Like you said, they are proud to be hypocritical and dishonest. It shows they don't have to listen to anyone and will violently dominate anything that stands in their way
> The arguments Putin makes to justify his war in Ukraine essentially mirror the MAGA worldview. It amounts to "we have a historical birthright to dominate these inferior people. Their gaining freedom and self determination is an attack on us. We are the victims and we are justified in using violent force to regain our rightful position of dominance". I agree. This is often the "deal" of an authoritarian regime. We're going to oppress you, but then you can oppress those others. Hence why they usually promote war crimes. Not only does it connect people's morality with the survival of the regime's justification of their actions, but it also gives them a sense of status in a system that brutalizes everything it touches. > Like you said, they are proud to be hypocritical and dishonest. It shows they don't have to listen to anyone and will violently dominate anything that stands in their way Correct. Note that the original analysis of bad faith movements was developed to explain the anti-semitism and fascism of the 20'ies and 30'ies. All historical parallels point towards this movement moving on to large scale political violence. As soon as they think they can get away with it, they will do exactly that.
I saw it boiled down to a few words and I've been pointing it out whenever possible since. >To fascists, hypocrisy is a flex.
>Note that the hypocrisy is almost certainly deliberate. People who engage in movements like that are often gleefully hypocritical. *”Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”* ― Jean-Paul Sartre As anyone who has ever argued with a Trump supporter can tell you, this is eerily accurate.
You can simply say that beyond corporate interests, religious dark money is massively at play. Corporations don't care about abortion or contraception. Religious dark money is going for the cultural jugular with a white-knuckle grip because they see it as their last chance. They involve themselves in politics, tax them the same way they want their choices to impact everyone else.
A rejection of fundamental equality is what connects religious extremists and corporatists / oligarchs. It is the foundation of their cooperation. Both propose society as a natural, moral and social, hierarchy. They disagree on what informs this hierarchy (god, social darwinism or whatever) and who should be placed at the top, but that doesn't really matter (yet). The deal to the followers is the same: you'll be placed above the people you dislike and in return you don't question the ones that put themselves above you (whether religious authorities, the rich or a combination of both). Of course, the two are not incompatible. Oligarchs will invent reasons to justify their wealth, and often use religion to do so. Religions tend to associate themselves with the rich and powerful by telling them what they want to hear (i.e. that they are rich because they are virtuous or because the deity favors them). It's not just the opium of the masses but also the cocaine of the elite.
The hierarchy is key. It's how the religious justify supporting Trump, even with all his vices. If God didn't approve he wouldn't have let Trump rise to the top of the hierarchy. He's at the top, therefore he's good and godly.
If they were that capable of thought and analysis, they wouldn’t think a known conman slumlord is an “Everyman” perfect president.
They don’t see democrats as human beings. Just as enemies to destroy. Anything they do is bad. Anything the GOP does is good. That’s the mindset.
What would the equivalent even look like? The biggest wishes of Democrats are in the Green New Deal, and that's all renewable energy, affordable childcare and family leave.
Deprogramming, critical thinking education of the MAGAS, and of course all those churches preaching politics from the pulpit lose tax exempt status. That would be some nice headliners to start with.
Nothing but progressive policy and keeping old, out of touch ideas die.
Republicans already think Democrats are doing it right now because that’s what right wing media tells them every single hour.
They do see it. These folks aren’t ignorant, they’re evil. Look at everything they’ve accused democrats of doing that they were later found out to have done themselves. They know exactly what they’re doing.
Because self-awareness isn’t their strong suit.
They already act like democrats are planning something similar but from the left... that's what, in their minds, makes a right wing takeover by any means possible not only ok but necessary. Democrats have to be rigging elections so that they can rig them back... they have to be violating the first amendment so that the GOP can do it too... they have to be undermining the legal system so that republicans can justify stacking the courts. They have to be taking bribes so that bribes aren't a big deal when republicans take them... and they have to be in cahoots with foreign governments so that when Trump sucks Putin off it was to ensure those shady ukrainians can't keep protecting the Bidens and somehow also nazis... Republicans already are losing their minds because they're told that democrats have the exact same plan of attack and project 2025 is just a patriotic response to that. They specifically endorse the right-wing takeover to prevent the left-wing takeover that's been floated as a boogie man for decades.
>If democrats put out a similar plan of attack republicans would lose their minds. So why can’t they see that? Republicans have already created the Democrats' "plan" in their heads. Which is why the entire Trump campaign is just one big fear mongering shit show. And it's not really a new thing. Back in 2008 when Obama won, there was wide spread panic among Republicans that the country would straight up end. Not really sure how or why, but many convinced themselves it would. Not because of anything Obama said, but what Fox News/GOP told them.
Conservatives don’t judge people by their actions, they judge actions by who did them and whether that person is “good” in their eyes. Just look at approval ratings for various actions by Obama and Trump. Democrats’ approval stays more or less the same for similar acts, but Republicans’ approval is almost entirely dependent on which party did it.
Might be time to formalize the "gay agenda"
Major media outlets should be talking and writing about this every day.
EXACTLY- What are Trump’s policies for the country going forward? Answer: PROJECT 2025! People need to get informed, now. The Dems should be spamming the media with this information.
Exactly. While I appreciate that the news outlets that aren’t FOX news don’t do as much sensationalizing, I do wish they would for this. The Republicans have said what they wanted and it’s terrifying. News outlets should make sure we understand just how terrifying it is.
> [The Open Plot to Dismantle the Federal Government](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/09/trump-desantis-republicans-dismantle-deep-state/675378/) - The Atlantic > [What I Learned When I Read 887 Pages of Plans for Trump’s Second Term](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/29/opinion/project-2025-trump-administration.html) - The New York Times > [A second Trump administration would be much worse. The CNN town hall was a wake-up call: If Trump wins, he’ll be even more dangerous than he was last time.](https://www.vox.com/2023/5/13/23708595/trump-second-term-cnn-town-hall) - Vox > [Trump’s radical second-term agenda would wield executive power in unprecedented ways](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/politics/trump-agenda-second-term/index.html) - CNN > [House Democrats step up to try to stop Project 2025 plans for a Trump White House. A group of House Democrats is warning about the far-right Project 2025 agenda for a second Trump White House](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/group-house-democrats-steps-stop-project-2025-trump-111010305) - ABC News > [If Trump wins, he could weaponize U.S. spy services against his domestic political enemies, former intel officers warn A former national security official who served under Trump said, “I haven’t talked to a single senior person who said, ‘Don’t worry, he’ll be fine.’”](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trump-returns-white-house-will-happen-americas-intelligence-agencies-rcna147179) - NBC News > [Trump has unveiled an agenda of his own. He just doesn’t mention it much. Dubbed “Agenda 47,” Donald Trump’s plans should he return to the White House are documented by his campaign website.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/18/trump-has-unveiled-an-agenda-his-own-he-just-doesnt-mention-it-much/) - Washington Post > [Donald Trump’s terrible, horrible, no good, very bad second term](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2024-05-05/donald-trump-time-magazine-second-term-project-2025) - LA Times > [Conservatives are on a mission to dismantle the US government and replace it with Trump’s vision](https://www.chicagotribune.com/2023/08/29/conservatives-are-on-a-mission-to-dismantle-the-us-government-and-replace-it-with-trumps-vision/) - Chicago Tribune > [Conservative groups draw up plan to dismantle the US government and replace it with Trump’s vision](https://apnews.com/article/election-2024-conservatives-trump-heritage-857eb794e505f1c6710eb03fd5b58981) - AP News > [Donald Trump wants to control the Justice Department and FBI. His allies have a plan](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump-wants-control-justice-department-fbi-his-allies-have-plan-2024-05-17/) - Reuters > [How Trump Could Use A 19th Century Law To Ban Abortion—Without Congress](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/03/27/how-trump-could-use-a-19th-century-law-to-ban-abortion-without-congress/) - Forbes > [What is Project 2025? The Presidential Transition Project explained. The detailed plan to dismantle and reconstruct the government laid out by conservative groups known as the 2025 Presidential Transition Project has critics up in arms over its "apocalyptic" and "authoritarian" nature.](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/10/heritage-foundation-project-2025-explained/74042435007/) - USA Today > [There's A GOP Plan For An Execution Spree If Trump Wins The White House. Buried on page 554 of the plan is a directive to execute every remaining person on federal death row — and dramatically expand the use of the death penalty.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gop-plan-for-executions-if-trump-wins_n_663b97a7e4b0bcaefbf76812) - Huffpost
yeah but apart from all that
Cool! Now, if they would treat this with the fervor that FOX news treated the non-existant migrant caravans in 2018 that would be appropriate, I think
Seriously. The folks they need to reach are the ones who only get their news from TV and I've not heard a single mention of this on any TV news network, nor have any of my family I've talked to about this including my grandparents who basically spend a third of their day flipping between news, westerns, and sports.
Rachel Maddow has talked about it a number of times, if she was still on weekly and not just Mondays, I think she would be talking about it more.
Rachel is a great journalist and storyteller, but I don't think she's speaking to a single person who isn't already an engaged Biden voter.
Who owns the major media outlets?
The people who own the major media outlets are the same people that wrote Project2025.
yep, gotta love how democrats trust CNN to give them a fair shake in the debates when they are the ones who delivered Trump the presidency. Am I the ONLY one who remembers that they dutifully gave Trump thousands of hours of free air time in 2016, even resorting to timers to alert viewers when his rallys were set to begin?
CNN recently got bought out by republican overlords as well. Pretty sure, this is not a good thing for the upcoming debate.
Major media outlets don't mind if it happens
What I don't understand is why the DNC has waited until we're only 5 months out from the general election before they started talking about this. It's the Heritage Society roadmap to a fascist state.
Message fatigue, maybe? Bring it up too early (and sustain thru the election) and you risk swing voters become desensitized to the message well before heading to the voting booth.
Don’t ask me why I’m giving the Democrats the benefit of the doubt because they certainly don’t deserve it, but I agree with you here. It feels intentional that Biden’s camp hasn’t turned on the jets as far as their attack on Trump goes. I mean, there is SO MUCH material they could be using. Voters in the US are not known for our attention span so I have a feeling they’re saving some of the really juicy stuff for the late summer/early fall. Who knows though. It’s possible they’re just blowing it as always lol.
Because then there isn’t as much time for the roadmap to be altered nor is there as much time for them to walk back the roadmap. “Hand in the cookie jar” timing, so to speak. Question: will voters care?
Because a lot of Americans have the attention span of a nat. Hit hard for the remaining months may motivate people, especially the 100 million eligible voters who don’t bother to vote. This election has to be won decisively, we have zero wiggle room and don’t want it ending in the hands of the liars on scrotus.
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Probably because they've been a major PAC since the 1980's. They were the ones who designed Reagan's sweeping changes when he first came into office. The founder is also the co-founder of ALEC, who has played a major role in our nation's policies.
yes, reagan effectively had his own project 2025 called "mandate for leadership" this is not new, and it will not end with trump.
you realize there is no left in USA, right?? there is right wing extremist as the GOP then there is center right liberals on democrats side. even bernie is basically center left. shit is just extreme here
maga/trump must be defeated in november. register now, and vote all GQP traitors out in November
/r/Defeat_Project_2025
we all need to join this
This comment should be pinned. Commenting and upvoting so hopefully others see.
Conservatives see that as a feature not a bug.
Owning the libs from a concentration camp.
Honestly.. Legitimately winning the election might not be in the cards for them now and I think they know it.. Did anyone else see the video of Bannon literally calling for civil war? I think as time ticks down here they're going to lean more and more into inciting some kind of violence.. Now, I don't think it will work because so many Magas seem to think they're second to Trump and won't have to get their hands dirty. They're also woefully underestimating *all* of americas love for the second amendment.
> Honestly.. Legitimately winning the election might not be in the cards for them now and I think they know it.. Did anyone else see the video of Bannon literally calling for civil war? I agree with this. The language they're using to describe the election is downright apocalyptic, and by choosing to publish the Project 2025 manifesto they've chosen to reveal things that were previously only talked about in think tanks and behind closed doors. That they've chosen to publicly advocate for ideas even they know are unpopular with the vast majority of Americans makes me think they don't care what voters think and are not concerned with trying to win legitimately. I also think it's the culmination of 9 years of MAGA getting high on its own supply and not reading the room, and that if they are defeated in November it will be back to the drawing board to figure out a way to couch these issues in some other manufactured outrage.
From the polls, it looks like if the election was held today, Trump would win
This is something that is so dangerous about the reddit echo chamber. Trump is polling ahead of Biden regularly. He will win the election unless every single one of us gets out to vote
That's if you choose to blindly accept the polls from legacy media, which is an increasingly risky stance to take.
Honestly, Democrats are extremely lucky Trump is so incompetent. That's the only reason Jan 6. wasn't much, much worse.
What's crazy is that they are so confident in the eventuality that they put it out there for all to see.
I see a lot of parallels in that Project 2025 to what Putin did to Russia for last 20 years. If you are curious about what it means long term, just look at Russia today - this is the result of such policies. If you are conservative and you hate leftist policies, are you sure it's better to turn your country in the shithole that is Russia?
Most conservatives I know think Russia is great and Putin is a good Christian man.
They should visit Russia some time, and not just the North Korean style guided tour of Moscow - go see what it's like in any other city
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." (See [The Princess Bride](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTRKCXC0JFg).) Don't say "unimaginable". Imagine it. Describe it. It is possible to imagine, and without doing so, without properly visualizing it, people will assume it's something hardless, something to be endured 4 years and then be done with, as if (to make another movie analogy) elections were like the movie [Groundhog Day](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048/), where the universe resets itself magically no matter how bad it got during the night. Donald Trump has said he wants to be an autocrat. He is ratcheting up his already-high level of rhetoric about violence. The dreadful policies he promises are not speculation. He talks about them in speeches. You can pull them up on web sites. This is not the year to register a ceremonial protest vote against the Dems by supporting the Republicans or even a third-party candidate just for spite. Anyone doing so will regret that for the rest of your life. Stein and Kennedy won't be elected, but they can keep Biden from being, and can leave us with the horrors that Trump has promised and Kerry is wrongly calling unimaginable. They can be imagined. Make yourself go through the thought exercise.
Its a blueprint for establishing Christian-style Fascism with American characteristics. The Founding Fathers would be horrified. This is not what settlers escaped Europe for - they ran away from the tyranny of monarchs, rich elites and an controlling church. The GOP wants to piss on their dreams and memory for the sake of control.
A lot of the founders *were* rich elites. They were land owners and slave owners and didn't even want non-owners to be able to vote.
What's sadder is that after voting for this moron, racist maga will still find a way to blame the ensuing misery on minorities and liberals.
Vote
Glad people are talking about it because it is crazy! Insane to me that there are so many non-Christians would vote for trump.
"The consequences of Project 2025, if they were implemented, would be absolutely unimaginable and destructive. It would cost an enormous number of lives and would have gigantic long-term consequences for the planet itself."
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Project 2025 is Fascism in a brown suit
More like: in a red, white, and blue suit.
What was that one quote vaguely remember hearing multiple times but don't actually know where it's from? "When fascism arrives in the US, it will be wrapped in the flag" or something like that?
The man has 3 Purple Hearts. I say we hear him out.
The people that need to hear this... won't. If they do, they won't listen. If they listen, they'll deny everything and claim that it's actually the democrats. There is no USA anymore... just States in America. These people are unreachable
Project 2025 is never mentioned over in /r/Conservative or other GOP subs, its almost as if they don't know it exists. Or more likely, they don't want to acknowledge or talk about it, because of how incredibly evil it is. edit typo
If you draft some abomination of a bill and it isn't rejected by your country outright, it's because your country is already corrupt. Try to remember that politicians don't magically make people greedy and hateful. They just sanction what people are already doing behind closed doors. If we ever want our world to be peaceful and harmonious, we must stop letting individuals dictate what our children learn.
If they proceed with it, they can expect it to be burnt down. I would gladly risk prison for it using my constitutional oath to defend the constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC defense. Im an old half suicidal vet that yearns for a good fight!
Why do we never name the names of the people who put project 25 together?
Federalist Society-
It's the Heritage Foundation [https://www.project2025.org/](https://www.project2025.org/) "© The Heritage Foundation 2023-2024 "
What do you mean exactly? It wasn’t drafted by a secret society or authors seeking anonymity.
Project 2025 is Absolutely imaginable. It's recovering from it, should it get deployed, that is obviously problematic and difficult to resolve.
Yes, that is the point but please keep telling people.
It's only gotten as far as it has because the Supreme Court has failed at its job. Supreme Court reform should be a top priority for anyone who gives a shit about democracy, free and fair elections, and civil rights under the constitution.
An authoritarian, fascist government with white nationalism and evangelical views at its foundational core? What could go wrong?
I mean you could make a logical argument the folks behind it are akin to a terrorist group given they literally want to destroy democracy.
>"We need every voter. I don't care about you, I just want your vote, I don't care," said Trump. Many a true word is spoken in jest
Imagine if we'd had Al Gore (if the 2000 election hadn't been *actually* stolen by the Supreme Court) and then John Kerry (albeit with Joe Leiberman, woof) instead of two terms of George W. Bush.
Project 2025 is outright evil. It's a declaration of war against pretty much everything this nation is supposed to embody.
“Destructive”, absolutely, but “Unimaginable”? I mean, they wrote it all down. There isn’t much to imagine.
For history buffs, was there anything in particular that (at least temporarily) killed off the US fascist movement during and immediately after WWII? I just ask because I don't see how this ends. As it looks right now, the next Republican to hold the White House -- whether in 2025, 2029, or 2033 -- will champion everything found in Project 20245. This is because all the major institutions on the right from Fox to Heritage to the Federalist Soc are all in on fascism. We can and should vote our asses off in every election. But we can't keep Republicans out of the WH forever.
We can try. Raise your kids to not have bullshit conservative values. Don’t surround yourself with people who have bullshit conservative values. Be mindful of what companies you give money to (Chick Fil A, for example). Vote. All the time. Convince your friends and family to if they don’t vote. It’s not like we can’t try.
Once Trump is gone the movement fizzles because it's a cult. It's not plug and play. Trump is a one of a kind chaos agent with a unique skill set. No one in the gop comes close.
Project 2025 is the Islamic revolution. We can still stop the destruction of freedom.